Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Zan

Pages: 1 ... 27 28 [29] 30 31 ... 79
701
Fan Creations / Re: Zan's stuff
« on: May 03, 2010, 12:48:10 AM »
Quote
How much time have you spend for the creation of this sprite? I have needed for my latest work atleast 5 hours.

I spend all day trying to make this because of that dress. I've tried a couple of things only to erase it afterward. However, once I finally got the right idea for the dress, I had it done in about 30 minutes. So, I spend literally hours for something I could have done in an hour, had I done it that way from the very beginning...

Quote
Perhaps he is already a part of another project.

"Perhaps."

702
Fan Creations / Re: Zan's stuff
« on: May 02, 2010, 11:10:45 PM »

703
Original / Re: Top Spin is not useless
« on: May 02, 2010, 01:54:02 PM »
You're not supposed to be using non-weakness special weapons on bosses anyway!

704
Zero / Re: Story Retcons?
« on: April 28, 2010, 01:48:00 PM »
Quote
Fixed.

Under Copy-X' rule, even helping an old lady across the street can be considered an act of Irregularity.

I think you're inverting the point; Neo Arcadia revives Repliroids whenever they see fit. They apparently do not consider it illegal whenever they do it.

All Cain did was to put together the parts that the Counter Hunters had with them, the parts that Sagesse himself built from scratch. How difficult can it be to put together a head, a torso with arms and a waist with legs? He did re-install the control chip, true, but that was it.

X2 instruction manual. Brain chip miraculously survived the destruction of Zero's body. Brain chip recovered by the Hunters. Cain attempted recreating Zero's body and did not succeed.

Start X2. Enter Sagesse who does succeed, but doesn't have the brain chip.

705
Zero / Re: Story Retcons?
« on: April 27, 2010, 09:07:20 PM »
Quote
DNA Resurrection is illegal.

Unless you're Neo Arcadia.

706
Zero / Re: Story Retcons?
« on: April 27, 2010, 08:01:14 PM »
Quote
but if they've been able to extract a reploid soul/cyberelf and put it into a body since forever...

It's called DNA resurrection, of which Vile is an expert in.

707
Zero / Re: Story Retcons?
« on: April 27, 2010, 01:25:44 PM »
I don't have much of a problem with it. By stating that, they tackled a lot of issues in one go. It still makes them derivative of his DNA, and his parts; after all, the soul split does not yet make them physical bodies.

708
Zero / Re: Story Retcons?
« on: April 26, 2010, 08:56:34 PM »
Just so you know, we're already discussing aspects of this in two other places:

http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=4021.0
http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=3965.0

Quote
For starters, the Roboenza outbreak seems to be referenced at the beginning as the reason Light built X....except Light supposedly built X to create a robot with true free will and that Suffering Circuit.  Of course, I could be wrong and the Circuit is that Virus countermeasure.

It does not say the virus outbreak is the reason for X's creation. It says the virus outbreak is the reason for the inclusion of a virus countermeasure in X.

I've written this entry on MMN to combine the info we have concerning X's creation by Dr. Light.
http://www.themmnetwork.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dr._Light_(X_Series)

As for the "Suffering Circuit." It is the may not be canon source for X's ability to worry.

Quote
Zero's creation seems to parallel Proto Man's.  He was unwilling to obey orders, so Wily sealed him rather than start from scratch. 

I don't see how that parallels Blues at all. Blues had a defect in his energy systems. He does not have a cognitive flaw. His free will is how was meant to be.

Quote
Apparently the Roboenza virus could mutate like a real virus, and somehow got into Zero's capsule and mutated into the Sigma virus that started the X series.

It says nothing about the virus mutating. It says Sigma Virus is a subspecies of the one from 100 years ago. Why don't you think it's the case that Wily deliberately created it?

Quote
Lastly, the Guardians are now made from pieces of X's soul as opposed to his DNA.

Those two are the same thing:
http://www.themmnetwork.com/wiki/index.php?title=DNA_Program
http://www.themmnetwork.com/wiki/index.php?title=DNA_Soul

The soul is a DNA program.


709
X / Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 26, 2010, 08:35:01 PM »
Quote
It is pretty specific, actually. Sigma and Zero were both infected at around the same time (literally, "douji ni" could be implying simultaneously) by the unknown computer virus that was explicitly said to be leaking from the capsule in the very same sentence.

I still don't see how it's mutually exclusive. Sigma was after all constantly in the vicinity of this virus spreading capsule that even infected Zero. It just means Sigma got something extra whilst punching Zero's lights out, passing that along from Zero to him.

Quote
Simply Zero, with no suggestion that the power source ever changed between games. The first source citing an atomic powered engine is from a Cyber Mission guide, so both ideas were presented before X6 came around.

But if the first source saying Atomic is Cyber Mission, then it seems like another one of those "X5 team" things. Like Sigma being the first Repliroid. If that X4 quote is the only one that mention solar, I would perhaps attribute it to just X1 Zero, since the context is heavily related to Zero's origins, if you ignore the mention of his revival by Sagesse.

However, if it's just Cyber Mission, and not anything after X3... What about the damage to Zero's power system that happened in that game? Do any other sources mention Atomic?

710
X / Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 26, 2010, 12:19:22 AM »
Quote
Before ZC's timeline, I would have said it was all but fact.

But ZC's timeline does not specify how Sigma got infected. Yes, it says that virus comes from the capsule, but that's ultimately where Zero's also comes from. Even if Zero gives it to Sigma, it still comes from the capsule.

Quote
It might, all it would take is for an illustrator working from multiple sources to get a little mixed up on what minor design trait belonged in the picture and what didn't, and for nobody to correct it. Unless Inafune has some inside story behind it, we'll probably never know.

X5 also occasionally shows intermediate designs. And these "minor design traits" are fixed within an identical, but colored image within the same scene.

Quote
conflicting with other sources that say atomic power

About which Zero are these conflicting sources talking, X1 Zero, X2 Zero, or X6 Zero?

Quote
(That's the reason for the design changes around his shoulder area and such.)

This is you or the book speaking?

Quote
which conceal an unknown power.

Which they never bothered to elaborate on...

711
X / Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 25, 2010, 05:24:11 PM »
Quote
Marsh & Rod presents...

Thanks.

And this only further establishes Sigma had to had gotten the virus from Zero, not his capsule..

Quote
The early handful of incidents would have little bearing on Vile's importance to Sigma. When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Sigma put importance on VAVA not just because of his combat capabilities, but also his mental state. By having nearly everyone have defects in their electronic brains, ruins what makes VAVA special.

Quote
I think the animators must have been given Zero's old X3 model kit box as a reference

Whilst that might explain the terms present, it doesn't explain the use of both an X1 and a pseudo-X1 Zero design.

Quote
the "Z-brain" and "Z-heart"

The what? Feel free to provide us with more info.

712
X / Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 24, 2010, 03:01:40 PM »
Quote
I think it would have fit fine. Some reploids already didn't need a virus to be jerks.

But having the majority of Irregulars caused by defected thought circuits removes the special aspect from VAVA. Who for that very reason falls within that small niche Sigma considers irregulars of their own accord.

Quote
We're not going to have to try to account for that famous flub, are we?



Well, if we're going to make some sense of the "1XX years ago" statement.. This image being famous not only for the "Irregular Hunter Zero" label, but also for the many X2 design elements on an X1 Zero. You'd think the creators of the X4 anime sequences would be well aware of either of these things. After all, they're the ones that established X1 and X2 Zero as distinctly different; they're the ones that revealed Zero was originally an Irregular.

Chalk it up to Zero's dreams being messed up as dreams usually are, I suppose.

713
X / Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 24, 2010, 01:43:51 AM »
Quote
(Although it says Irregular Zero... Something that seems out of place... lack of translating irregular aside.)

Then you'd be surprised to know there are other schematics in that same scene which read "irregular hunter".

714
X / Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 23, 2010, 06:16:13 PM »
Quote
I tried to work around this to meet them halfway, by suggesting that the virus is encoded in Zero's DNA (even though that doesn't quite make him "infected.") The way they laid out the timeline, Zero simply cannot be the first infected. He can be among the first, he can be the earliest infected to still be surviving, but being the actual first first doesn't work.

I figured the "first infected" statement works in a couple of ways. Noting that RPM says Zero was perhaps born with it, and that Wily put it inside of him, and going with the X4/ZERO1 radiation symbol, I'd say it's likely that Wily had indeed tried to infect Zero upon his creation. Either to test the virus' workings on Zero's psyche, to gradually build up his immunity, or to strengthen Zero by use of the immunity. Leaving us with a Zero that does spread the virus, but has yet to be infected to facilitate the change to good. Zero can after all be infected many times, only for his immunity to counter that infection, until the moment that his immunity is breached and the virus reaches his brain.

Quote
(and Sigma) was infected with it...

I still wonder about the details of Sigma's own infection. Can you clarify what Sigma himself said in RockmanX8?

Quote
If they had just let those first mavericks be the results of various chip errors or *gasp* free will itself, there wouldn't be a problem here... but alas.

I think doing that would have conflicted with the established concept of "irregular of one's own accord" presented with Sigma, VAVA and Lumine.

715
Zero / Re: Megaman Zero: Command Mission
« on: April 22, 2010, 12:55:15 AM »
Quote
I think they'd still approach Maverick hunting as a side job. More behind-the-scenes work, until the Elf Wars began in full swing.
Quote
*Note: Did not catch that part of "being built around Copy X". My bad of horrible fanon.

No shame in thinking the Big4 might have fought at that time. The ten shining weapons indeed implicate that they were around during the Irregular Wars. But, we recently learned the following:

"The Legendary Blue Messiah" X
The legendary blue repliroid and ruler of Neo Arcadia who symbolizes "infinite potential" and a "purveyor of justice" for all.
Though he had done so for the sake of peace, he often worried over having to destroy his fellow repliroids during the long confrontations of the "Irregular Wars", a condition which went mostly unchanged even after Zero went to sleep following the Nightmare Incident.
In the closing period of the Irregular Wars (later referred to as the Elf Wars), X cooperated with Zero who had acquired a copy body, to capture the Dark Elf, and arranged to use his anti-virus countermeasure to seal her within his own body.
When he sealed the Dark Elf, the shock forced X's soul from his body and split it into 5 cyber elves.
Eventually, 4 of these souls were incorporated into the Shitennou of Neo Arcadia, while one continued to wander the earth.


I do however think a Command Mission-esque title would work for the Elf Wars; it just wouldn't include the Big4.

716
Zero / Re: Megaman Zero: Command Mission
« on: April 21, 2010, 06:15:46 PM »
Quote
detailing the Four Guardians before Copy X?

Simulating how to clean up the oceans and the skies?... Or the part where they hung out all chummy in Cyberspace before being given bodies?

They didn't exist before X sealed himself away; their job from the very beginning was to serve under Copy-X.

Meaning...

Quote
and go up to the Elf Wars and Omega's involvement.

They never fought in Elf Wars and never met Omega prior to ZERO3.

And...

Quote
They could have been infected

There was nothing to infect them with; the Sigma Virus had been deleted by Mother Elf, and the Dark Elf was sealed away.

Quote
since Levi and Fef never got their explanation on character

The Green Slasher/[Sage] Wise General Harpuia /CV Megumi Ogata

The long, drawn out Iregular Wars resulted in mankind's very existence being threatened, due to the immeasurably damaged state of the earth's environment. Aiming to rebuild the world of man, Neo Arcadia established two primary objectives. One, the eradication of the Iregulars who had been the cause of the wars; and two, to revive the earth's environment for expanding the region of human habitation. Operating a giant weather control mechaniloid, Harpuia brought about a blessing wind of hope to the people. A Sonic Blade in each hand, his swords are wielded in a manner of absolute seriousness. Persistent in his ideal "for the sake of the humans," the people praised him as the "wise general," while the Resistance feared him as "the slasher." He battled the Resistance at the remains of the laboratory called the "historic ruins." He was "hunting" the Resistance's leader, a young human girl whose capture should have proven to end the fighting. Standing in his way, was a single red repliroid. When his mighty wind was quenched, his pride plummeted down to earth, and his anger blew into a raging tempest.

The Crimson Powerhouse/[Fighting] Battle General Fefnir /CV Kazuya Nakai

To use military force to combat Iregulars and Resistance members who escaped Neo Arcadia to the wastelands, they developed the "Scorched Earth Operation" in which extermination attacks were performed. A roller strategy involved carpet bombing, and deployment of an enormous ground force for total supremacy. These severe tactics strike terror into all Irregulars who witness it. If the fighting ahead isn't ceased immediately, they will never know another peaceful night's sleep. At the forefront of the Scorched Earth Operations, a single repliroid's form can always be made out. A grotesque silhouette with a giant launcher equipped on one arm. Rarely will he equip "that" on both arms, invoking the name of the treacherous cities which were burned to ruin. When he does come out with both arms roaring, cleansing fire will rain down from the heavens, burning hostile enemies to their final breath, as in those two cities. His singular purpose in existence being to reign over destruction and the engage in the pursuit of power.  In thinking of legendary "red" opponent his own "crimson" trembles. Only in the heat of that moment does the evil dragon grind his teeth.

Ocean Blue Sea Goddess/[Fairy] Siren General Leviathan /CV Yuka Imai

The fall of the giant colony "Eurasia" from the Iregular Wars was the single disaster that caused the greatest degree of damage. A punishment that drove an ugly hole into mother earth, causing catastrophic damage to the troposphere, and people could not reap the benefits of the "blessings of the sea" for a long time. Therefore, from both the sea and the air a large-scale tropospheric control operation for the rejuvenation of the environment was conducted. From the main shaft of Neo Arcadia, she used her abilities to do her part for the operation. She was created in order to earn back the favor of the goddess of the sea. Just like the sea goddess, she is fickle and moody in temperament. For her, regeneration of the environment and hunting the Resistance are nothing but boring and tedious tasks. The water dragon parts the sea, and coffins of ice envelope her unwitting prey, the pathetic spoils of war unworthy of facing her. Not one of them could satisfy her, make her whimsical heart dance as she yearned for. That is, until she finally discovered him. Surely, if it was really him, he could liberate her from her boredom.  When she caught a glimpse of her red trophy conquest from the corner of her icy eye, the sea goddess flashed a dubious smile.

Jet Black Illusion/Undercover General Phantom /CV Tetsu Inada

In Neo Arcadia, those who can escape under suspicion of Iregularity are few, but those who can survive long are even fewer. Many who try to hide are quickly discovered and dealt with by a certain oppressive unit. The leadership of this anti-Iregular, anti-Resistance intelligence unit, called the "Zan'ei" [shodow execution] unit is undertaken single-handedly by Phantom. Originally, he and his unit acted as "X"'s personal safeguard and defenders. With his ability he became like a shadow, always at his master's side, also displaying unparalleled skills in the field of secret intelligence operations. Lurking in the enemy's shadow, striking from the shadows. Melting into the shadows even as he strikes the enemy down. Desiring nothing for himself, his loyalty to his master is unconditional. Then the red one appeared with the swift light in his hand. He made haste to entwine himself with this body's shadow. His master's enemy's blasphemous light could not be permitted. From the gloom of darkness he struck out with his blade soundlessly, aiming unyieldingly at the light.

717
Zero / Re: Rockman Zero Collection Thread
« on: April 21, 2010, 06:07:55 PM »
Quote
For MegaMan Zero 2, SOMETHING has to be done about the translations. We already have too many plotholes caused by poor ones, and things NEED to be cleared up.

I have no clue what you're talking about. There are no plotholes caused by poor translation, or ZERO2 for that matter.

718
I can't disagree more, FragMan. The Astro Boy movie had all the all the charm of the real thing, and was chock-full of references to the whole franchise. Sure, it changed a whole lot of elements, but AstroBoy already had four or more completely different adaptations preceding this movie; re-imagining the franchise for a new audience has become the norm.

719
X / Re: X7-X8 never happend?
« on: April 20, 2010, 12:15:52 AM »
Quote
Negative public opinion might even contribute to the decision made by the humans that he should be sealed. That's why I mentioned it as being a relevant step.

Even if the humans consider Zero a liability, it can not be forgotten that Zero is one of their best irregular hunters, who has yet to show any irregularities of himself. There's a huge risk taken with sealing Zero away, which was expressed by the scientist. We have to consider that there can be a considerable amount of doubt causing political debate, which would demand Zero's own approval of the situation he is placed in. All of this can delay the time of sealing for further X-series titles.

Quote
Do you mean that they're like X's good ending vs X's bad ending in X5, where either road can be taken, and we assume that knowledge we learn in one (like X's dream of Elysium) still applies to the other, even if not expressed? More or less negating the possibility that the Zero series backstory/accounts of events differs at all from the earlier X series accounts, like I suggested the possibility of earlier?

In one way, this is exactly what I'm saying.

But what I was adding to that was something like ZX's Vent and Aile scenario leading toward ZXA's Ashe and Grey scenario; even though another path was taken by Girouette's choice, the future still follows a similar course aside from certain deviations. Prairie for example would have never gotten a new dress in the Ashe future, but that doesn't change the way the battle with Model V continues.

Between X and the ZERO-series, the choice of Zero being sealed or not, the deviations would certainly be quite a bit heavier; more things change than they are the same. But it would still mean that in both cases, Orbital Elevators and Copy Chips are inevitably both invented, albeit not necessarily in the same context in both timelines; validating ZXA's references to the concepts from XCM.

720
X / Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 19, 2010, 11:53:28 PM »
Quote
Hypothesis:
1. Zero was built to protect his mind against the virus.

This would be the case with his physical immunity, but we also shouldn't forget that the infection affects Zero uniquely, fixing exactly what needed to be fixed. At some point it seems that Wily indeed wanted the virus to affect Zero's mind. Perhaps Zero was awakened prematurely? I can't be stressed enough that the change to good wasn't planned by Wily. This applies to hypothesis 2a and 2b also.

Quote
H. The virus can cause the resurfacing of the latent evil personality within Zero (X5, visually X2).

I wouldn't say resurfacing. With the ZC Timeline, we effectively establish X4 evil Zero as clearly different; X2 and X5 were the first times we saw Zero's true self. Which demands a review of "???"'s remark about Zero having forgotten what he should be doing upon his X5 awakening.

Quote
Zero's body redirects the "energy/volition" of the virus and channels it into his power output, temporarily boosting his power.

You've got to wonder, how does that equate to Zero's "body" being "purified"?

Quote
J. Zero is a virus carrier, and spreads the virus while working as a Hunter.

MMZOCW, both within and outside of Three Keys, says that initially Zero was the only one infected before explaining this matter. Combined with RPM's hearsay, I feel we really need to reconcile this with the ZC Timeline.

Quote
3a, 3b

I like how you tried to explain such specifics as "during missions." I think you might be on to something with the damage to Zero's systems. If a defensive breach not only can promote infection, but further damage can actually promote the virus leaving his systems, the importance of Sigma's knockout punch can be highlighted in relation to Zero's reversion to hunter state in X2 and X5.

Quote
Hypothesis:
4.
Hypothesis:
5

I think going into the matter of Wily's revival might at current be going outside the scope of this topic too much.

Quote
Inside the capsule, Wily visible. This is from the intro/dream sequence instead of the ending. Is this directly after Zero's sealing, or before waking up? I never noticed that Zero's legs were colored wrong before.

I don't think we can even establish at what stage of construction Zero's at in that image. Remember that X was activated without even so much as a lower body. Zero's "dream" excepted, this is one of the few images in which Zero saw Wily himself seemingly alive, which stands in contrast with the "1XX ago" ZX timeline placement.

Quote
Could they be connected to this? Some kind of tanks. The one glowing purple doesn't seem to be connected to the wires, but maybe it's just hidden. The symbol on there is like a radiation warning symbol, except with 5 parts instead of 4. The only other place I remember seeing this symbol was in Zero 1's intro stage, but I don't think it's even visible without using an emulator or cheats.

This is a very nice find. I discovered the five part radiation warning symbol from ZERO1 myself, a few years back, but I never noticed X4 contained the exact same symbol.

The one from ZERO1 is definitely not visible in normal gameplay, just like I don't think the SIGMA is. But both are being drawn by the engine, even if off screen; they're not unused.

Either way, I've always considered this one reason to believe the reasons MMZOCW cite for Zero's sealing were Capcom/Inti's intend from the get go. And now, In combination with the obscure reference to X4, it certainly adds to our resources.


721
X / Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 18, 2010, 01:15:52 AM »
The main point of note isn't so much the nastiness of the effect, as it is Wily being shown to have remorse for his actions, giving enough cures for everyone, where X-series Wily seemingly doesn't give a damn.

722
X / Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 18, 2010, 12:59:09 AM »
Quote
As for MM10, I could imagine he did that as a test. Or maybe he learned from the mistakes of Saturday morning cartoon villains, who never try a scheme again after it fails from sheer dumb luck on the part of the heroes...

So, you're pretty much proposing Wily turned into a considerably darker villain? I suppose that's true if we look at both the Eurasia and Nightmare Incidents.

Of course, all of this leads us right back to the question of what the hell Wily's trying to accomplish in the whole X-series...

723
X / Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 18, 2010, 12:33:44 AM »
Quote
some manner of mechanical/program failure is to blame.

Well, last I checked, capsules don't survive 100 year seals that well, being buried beneath a fallen ceiling or outright trashed by unspecified circumstances. At least, with the other two cases we have of those.

Quote
I have a feeling that the Control Chip is key to this.  It is the lone piece of X1 Zero to survive, and judging by Serges is absolutely not replaceable, so whatever "growth" X1 Zero was experiencing had to be centered there.  At the same time, removing Zero's consciousness for research would mean removing that chip, would it not?  And without it, Weil has himself a "bloodthirsty God of Destruction"?

The control chip is simply Zero's brain chip. So yes, we would establish that the hunter Zero is an irreversible change to his personality program, remaining even after becoming a disembodied existence, and after the death of the Sigma Virus. Random Model V zappings, being the only known potential method of temporary reversion to that aggressive state, unless you're a fan of Ira's Madness In Red.... Dr. Vile of course having knowledge of working with the original body, which has the probability of containing the code of Zero's original violent self. Omega being based on that Zero. But Omega is Dr. Vile's slave? Vile succeeded where Wily failed?

Quote
Something that, from day one, was part of the plan

But Inafune himself said "circumstances can change anything." Zero was not planned to stop in this intermediate phase; he was supposed to contain the Sigma Virus and become his true self. So either he was not intended to be infected with the virus just yet, or we go back to blaming a transfer from Zero to Sigma, as Inafune implied. After all, we just established that losing the virus after awakening returns him to hunter state.

To further go with the concept of Capsule>Zero>Sigma; It is instead Sigma that became uniquely one with the virus. None of the previous Irregulars responded to infection in this manner. We must acknowledge that the means with which Sigma were infected cannot compare to those that preceded him.

Quote
The Awakened state may simply be the point at which Zero takes those words as instruction rather than some crazy voice in his head.

But then you're just turning the question around; why isn't Zero accepting Wily's instructions prior to that? The Virus is still needed to force Zero to follow Wily.

724
X / Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 17, 2010, 05:17:12 PM »
Quote
Maybe the capsule emanates the virus, affecting anything OUTSIDE it, while remaining safely sealed itself?

The question would then be; what is Wily trying to accomplish? It's out of character to restrict himself to a local region, and we have to question if Wily would retry the virus thing again after Rockman10. He had some sort of change of heart, providing everyone with a cure for the Roboenza.

Quote
The virus wasn't known to the Hunters until X3, so Zero Collection's timeline is clearly jumping around in that regard.

I acknowledge they jumped about with the part where they discovered the capsule was the source. Cain's Journal notes he is still clueless, as does X's question to Zero. Furthermore X Compendium notes the existence of Sigma Virus became known in X3. (What about X2 and Magne Centipede?) And the same summary acknowledges a complete link to Zero was not established until X6.

 But what's not possible to deny is the following:

A subspecies of the terrible computer virus from long ago is generated, and begins driving robots mad locally. The human leadership acknowledges these infected robots as Mavericks, and orders them to be disposed of.
Following through with the disposal of Mavericks, the human leadership decides to have Mavericks exterminated by Reploids, and forms the Maverick Hunters.


They use the Repliroids infected by the virus to introduce the first Irregulars which were disposed off. The Hunters are a follow up of that. Which places this more than 2 years before the incident with Zero.

Quote
Looking at the other side, though, if Zero was already infected during stasis, then why is his fight with Sigma relevant at all?  What is the logic in battle damage allowing re-infection of something Zero was already sleeping in to begin with?

We know Zero has a natural physical immunity to the virus. The virus after infecting him is eliminated before it goes through his body toward his brain. Sleeping in a virus infested capsule without a change of mental state would be quite an exercise of Zero's immunity at work, perhaps even building it up so no other person can misuse his Zero through the use of a virus.

Remember, Zero was built to work with the virus. It's unthinkable that Wily did not test the virus on Zero beforehand, making Zero still the "first infected", even if the infection that turned him to good happened after the first irregulars.

Quote
Zero shouldn't even have the same DNA data in X8 as in X1, given that the Control Chip is the only part to survive that timeframe.  But Zero and the virus (or the strain he was sealed with, anyway) have the same creator, and were developed towards a common goal.  That they should share a similarity, regardless of Zero's time of infection, is only natural.  That Sigma should associate it with Zero is only natural.

I'm beginning to think that Sigma meant that the virus was "made" with Zero's DNA, which would certainly solve that issue.

Quote
What I'm mainly not buying with the early infection theory, as you presented it, is a particular detail which is not key to the scenario: That is, that interrupting it ties to Zero's allegiance, or lack thereof, to Wily.  That, we do not know, and with Zero being for a fact infected as a result of the Sigma battle, before the virus is known to the world, it is extremely unlikely that the virus was not allowed to run its full course at that time.

I think we shouldn't forget that in all other cases, damage counters viral control. Which is something we have to reconcile with this new info.. Damaging Zero returns him to his hunter self, but never facilitates a return to the violent  uncontrollable one. Zero is also still constantly spreading the virus, so it never fully left him and it IS altering his mental state. So, how do we reconcile that with "the virus purifies your body" and the whole process of awakening? The changed state of the Virus by its merger to Sigma strikes me as a vital aspect; was the original virus even set to establish an allegiance? (It does affect the regular Repliroids the same way, despite any changes.)

Quote
While the virus makes Zero more open to instruction, I'm not convinced that the virus provides that instruction.  If it did, it would leave Zero too easy to manipulate by the likes of Sigma.  Given Zero's constant Wily dreams, such as X4, I'm banking that Wily has an independent means of instructing Zero, and that the virus, by quelling Zero's emotions, simply clears his head so that he will listen.  I'm also not convinced that the X1 body was ever intended to fully Awaken in the first place.

If the virus itself does not provide instruction. Then why can Wily not instruct Zero after the initial infection? I personally think the Sigma Virus does provide it, which is the reason for Sagesse getting on Sigma's good side. In X5, the Zero Virus nicely breaks Sigma's control on his Zero, complete with Wily's disembodied voice speaking to Zero as he is awakening.

725
X / Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 17, 2010, 12:26:11 AM »
For completion's sake, I'm just going to leave these here. Quotes related to Sigma's infection, courtesy of Marshmallow Man:

Rockman X4 X to Z Kouryaku File
かつてはイレギュラーハンター第17部隊の隊長であったシグマ。その圧倒的な戦闘能力は史上最強といわれ、特A級ハンターとして仲間に尊敬され、信頼されていたレプリロイドである。だが、ある日、正体不明の赤いイレギュラー(ゼロ)との戦いにおいて敗北を喫し、最強と自負するプライドがズタズタにされた。このときにゼロからイレギュラー化を促進するウイルスに感染し、邪悪な心が芽生えてしまう。数ヶ月後、完全に邪悪なウイルスの虜となったシグマは、その圧倒的な力と天才的な頭脳で大勢のレプリロイドを従え、人間に対して反乱を起こしたのであった。

Sigma was at one time the Commander of the Irregular Hunter 17th Unit. A Special A Class Hunter, he was called the strongest in history due to his overpowering combat abilities, and gained the confidence and respect of his fellow repliroids. However, on a certain day, he suffered a defeat in battle by an unidentified unknown red irregular (Zero) that tore at his proud ego. At that time he was infected by some manner of virus that facilitates irregularity, germinating wickedness in his heart. Several month later, Sigma was completely enslaved by the evil virus, and used his overwhelming strength and genius intellect to subdue many repliroids into joining him in a revolt against humanity.

Rockman X4 Koushiki Irregular Hunters Manual
しかし、ある日ゼロに敗北し、イレギュラー化するウイルスをうつされてしまった。邪悪な心に支配されたシグマは、人類の敵としてエックスたちの前に何度も現われることになる。

But, one day, [Sigma] suffered a defeat by Zero, and was inflicted with an irregular converting virus. Under  the control of an evil heart, Sigma made enemies of humanity and popped up to cause trouble for X and his companions many times over.

Rockman X4 Saikyou Daizukan
そんな彼が、なぜイレギュラーと化してしまったのだろう?あくまで推測ではあるが、イレギュラーだったZEROと戦ったとき、イレギュラー化を促進するウイルスのようなものを浴びてしまったのが原因ではないだろうか。

Just why did he become irregular? There has been much conjecture, but the actual cause could well be from when was showered in some kind of  irregular-facilitating virus during his fight with the irregularly behaved Zero.

Quote
Besides what I already stated above on battle timing, we should also consider that it was the Three Keys that told us that, thus we must take it with the accompanying disclaimer. 

I don't think it's to be discarded that easily, the Idiom dictionary also makes mention of similar things.

Sigma Virus
ZERO1
A terrifying Virus that makes Reploids go Maverick. Initially, Zero was the only one infected with the Virus, but as he traveled the world to battle Mavericks, he unwittingly spread the Virus.

Underground Laboratory (Forgotten Laboratory)
ZERO 1
The facility built to house Zero, who was discovered to be the source of the Sigma Virus outbreak.

Which is all fine and dandy with Sigma's infection, but it doesn't go with the irregulars being virus infected before Zero even awakens.

Quote
Whether it's Capsule -> Sigma or Capsule -> Zero -> Sigma is not something that we can expect older sources to accommodate when they predate the notion of drawing lines between Zero and his capsule in the first place.

Then, what of Sigma? With Sigma saying "from that DNA", you can't quite relate its origins to a capsule...

Quote
Perhaps the single biggest piece of information we are still missing is why Wily kept Zero and the virus separated within the capsule in the first place. 

Was it separated from Zero to begin with? The virus is spreading all over the place while he still sleeping in it, it must have reached Zero before that, with strange virus induced physical purification effects included. With the way X and Zero mirror each other, I get the feeling something like the ethical testing routine was also performed by Zero's capsule, which required the Sigma Virus.

Pages: 1 ... 27 28 [29] 30 31 ... 79