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402
News and Announcements / Re: Rockman Online artwork and details.
« on: November 19, 2010, 12:00:42 AM »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5DeXQbiJZg[/youtube]
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Rockman Series / Re: The story of Rockman Online
« on: November 18, 2010, 09:25:43 PM »
This is NOT the thread for Rockman Online news posts.
I wasn't so much thinking of their exclusion as I was thinking of the direct linking of Zero's sealing to the Nightmare Incident.
In Rockman Online, Zero actually acknowledged himself as a host, yet we hear no sign of his seal. That would certainly fit such notions. Furthermore, we always had some issues keeping XCM within "XX" years.
As such, the question I must raise... does X7+ Zero acknowledge himself as a host of the virus?
That would make me question why Zero believed it even would work.
I would chalk it up to "limitless evolutionary potential", the same technology used for his special weapons. That would make other Repliroids incapable of it, but Zero has seen it at work before, making him sure of its feasibility.
One thing that interests me here is that they acknowledge Command Mission alongside Inticreates' scenario of host Zero and Sigma Virus' deletion by X to end the Irregular Wars, without inevitably leading into Rockman Zero. Apparently there's no real conflict between Command Mission and Inticreates' story with these basic details.
Traditionally, we've only ever considered timeline splitting because of gameplay input leading to alternate endings. With X7 and beyond giving us little of that, it seems natural to focus on X6. Does it not?
The beauty of branching timelines compared to a completely different continuinity is that we can reason Axl and the Copy Chip would exist before the story splits ways, justifying ZX Advent even if a story like X7 never happened.
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I dont see why people actually still wonder that about X6+ all because the ZC timeline doesnt mention them. it doesnt mention X2-4 either, if I recall, and nobody questions them.
I wasn't so much thinking of their exclusion as I was thinking of the direct linking of Zero's sealing to the Nightmare Incident.
In Rockman Online, Zero actually acknowledged himself as a host, yet we hear no sign of his seal. That would certainly fit such notions. Furthermore, we always had some issues keeping XCM within "XX" years.
As such, the question I must raise... does X7+ Zero acknowledge himself as a host of the virus?
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I'm surprised at this validating the Z-Buster over Light's X1 capsule, though. Leaving a "what if" scenario is one thing, but claiming that as the valid one makes it harder to sweep the similarity/compatibility issues under the rug. I'm really having a hard time believing at this point that Wily and Light didn't put their heads together one last time during the development of X and Zero.
That would make me question why Zero believed it even would work.
I would chalk it up to "limitless evolutionary potential", the same technology used for his special weapons. That would make other Repliroids incapable of it, but Zero has seen it at work before, making him sure of its feasibility.
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However, while RMO is offering tons in the way of series backstory, the RMO-specific backstory is still a bit lacking. The deal with Cinnamon getting visions of Neo Arcadia has me intrigued, as that's pretty much the main sign pointing towards the "alternate future" explanation (You could otherwise try to work this into line with the other series, but for them to be so familiar with X/Classic events without hearing of Neo Arcadia?).
One thing that interests me here is that they acknowledge Command Mission alongside Inticreates' scenario of host Zero and Sigma Virus' deletion by X to end the Irregular Wars, without inevitably leading into Rockman Zero. Apparently there's no real conflict between Command Mission and Inticreates' story with these basic details.
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We can't simply assume it was, say, X6 or X7. It could just as easily be any later point in the timeline up until around Elf Wars.
Traditionally, we've only ever considered timeline splitting because of gameplay input leading to alternate endings. With X7 and beyond giving us little of that, it seems natural to focus on X6. Does it not?
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Further, in light of ZXA, I'd be reluctant to remove Axl outright from Zero-series continuity
The beauty of branching timelines compared to a completely different continuinity is that we can reason Axl and the Copy Chip would exist before the story splits ways, justifying ZX Advent even if a story like X7 never happened.
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News and Announcements / Re: Rockman Online artwork and details.
« on: November 18, 2010, 08:17:41 PM »
The design doesn't wholly match Mega Scorpia, but it definitely heavily borrows from it. It's more like an "X-series" version of it.
Also, I'm VERY interested in seeing Isoc in there.
Also, I'm VERY interested in seeing Isoc in there.
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Rockman Series / Re: The story of Rockman Online
« on: November 16, 2010, 10:12:57 PM »Quote
Even with all the info, I'm hesitant to accept it as in-continuity to the mainline games until CoJ puts it in an official timeline, at least. God knows how well extracting game canon from uncertain sources worked for the fandom. >.>
Even if we place it outside of (Rockman ZERO) continuinity; as a strange alternate paralel future of the classic and X-series. It still reveals to us information of the past shared with Rockman ZERO. How do you feel about that information assisting us in our understanding of those series?
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Which is totally why he has one in X2 and X3.
Not to mention he was REBUILT by the "Most-likely-is-Wily" Serges. with TWO NEW BUSTERS
Unless it refers to things like weapon copying, which so far, we have never seen Zero do with his Buster. (And by that, I mean he has never acquired a buster weapon like X does,)
And Tatsucap confirms that he can still actually utilize a charging buster, tatsucap Zero being from Post X7.
It's explaining why Sagesse equipped Zero with the Z-saber, which he was not originally designed with; a backup in case Zero loses his buster functions once again.
This is a perfectly valid explanation, as to Sagesse, there's no guarentee Zero will allow him to do the repair, leaving Zero in the hands of people that do not understand Wily technology.
That Sagesse did construct Zero with a new buster is largely irrelevant to the origin of the Z-saber in relation to Zero losing his original buster functions in the first war.
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Rockman Series / Re: The story of Rockman Online
« on: November 16, 2010, 07:26:14 PM »Quote
Would it be too cynical of me to say "absolutely none"?
Even if Capcom is okay with the fact that everyone besides the Navigators is dead, it's...well, the only licensed game out of many to end up in R20 was RnF2, the Japanese one. :/ (There was that RS-MM group shot, too, but the first episode was released there, subbed-only--maybe that was the reason for its inclusion)
Capcom of Japan is involved with this project, actually. It is a joint venture between Capcom of Japan and Neowiz. Which is one reason why this is actually a discussion instead of simply ignoring the game outright.
Furthermore, disregarding the weirdness of the premise (we don't know what's been going on with the Navigators just yet), I'm much more concerned about the information revealed about the past that it shares with Rockman ZERO; the world of classic and X. There is a wealth of information provided to us that is simply amazingly indepth, and wholly believable.
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Am I the only one shocked that Zan is asking these questions?
I'm opening this discussion for the sake of being free to cite Rockman Online as a valid source, without constant remarks of "Rockman Online is not canon."
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w...what?
When and where did all this information about RO appear anyway? I haven't noticed anything since the thread here on RPM died.
Rockman Online takes place several hundred years after the X-series. After X and Zero but also the Sigma Virus are gone, the irregular wars having come to an end. However there is a sudden resurgence of irregulars, which leads to the world government deciding to clone the legendary heroes of the past using their DNA data.
Since it seems not many people saw the wealth of information from the beginning of last month, allow me to select a few quotes I found very interesting. Sourced from:
http://www.themmnetwork.com/2010/10/04/detailed-rockman-online-blog-info/
Wily:
“As god made man in his image, the birth of humanoids is simply humanity’s first step to becoming gods.”
The backstory of Rockman ZERO:
X is a legendary Irregular Hunter who worked to destroy the Sigma Virus, which causes destructive behavior in a repliroid, turning it into an Irregular.
He eventually won his battle against the Sigma Virus, and after confirming the world was in peace, went to eternal rest.
For ages, mankind and repliroids believed that the Sigma Virus had been completely eradicated.
Zero is the masterpiece of Dr. Wily, who tried to use Humaroids (humanoid robots) to take over the world.
Zero is known to be the the original host of the Sigma Virus, which turns repliroids into Irregulars, and openly acknowledges that fact himself.
However, despite that dark past, Zero defeated countless irregulars with his undying belief in what’s right, and always trusted the sometimes unsure X, supporting him by his side.
Suffering Circuit:
X was originally classified as a B-Rank Hunter. Unlike other repliroids, he had the ability to “suffer”, which caused him to avoid conflict and limited his combat capabilities. However, the reason he was able to become a Special A-Rank Hunter and become a legend was that he was able to grow stronger due to his suffering, and that he had a heart of gold.
He always hesitated and was always worried, but once he made a decision he never turned back on it. I want you to think about that aspect of X in the slightest instead of just desiring power. A man who thinks long and hard before his conviction that always goes by his beliefs
Z-buster:
Zero originally used a Buster like X, but during the first of the Irregular Wars caused by Sigma, by giving his parts to X so that he could defeat Sigma, his buster functions become virtually useless. Because it was a weapon designed by Dr. Wily’s earlier technology, there was no means to repair it at the time, and thus he gained a new weapon, “Z-Saber”, a powerful beam sword.
Duo, Evil Energy, Sigma Virus:
What you must always keep in mind is that Duo has complete immunity to the “Sigma Virus” which causes a fatal error in free-willed robots, and all other variations and similar viruses.
In addition, Duo Types have the ability to detect viruses or Irregulars with negative intent.
And then there's the mystery of "Neo Arcadia":
http://www.themmnetwork.com/2010/11/15/rockman-online-introduces-cinnamon/
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Rockman Series / The story of Rockman Online
« on: November 15, 2010, 10:52:05 PM »
Recently we've been receiving more and more information about the story behind Rockman Online; a strange far future world was revealed to us, with little in common with the Rockman ZERO and Rockman ZX series, other than both sharing the world of classic Rockman and Rockman X as its past.
Strange for a Korean-exclusive such as this, both the quantity and quality of information given about the past leading to Rockman Online, has simply been astounding; not only have they accurately referred to the events of the end of the irregular wars as documented by Rockman ZERO, they also gave us new unique, yet fitting insight about other aspects of the Rockman world.
As such, I've been wondering for a while now; what is the canonical validity of this title in regards to the main storyline? Other than the entire premise being quite out of the ordinary, I've seen preciously little to doubt it. But I'm wondering what other people think of this and how we will treat it as a community.
Adding to this, we've just now received word that Cinnamon, from Command Mission, will be appearing in Rockman Online, with a strange mention of visions from what seems another world, in which "Neo Arcadia" exists instead.
As you may know, the games after X6, Command Mission especially, have always held an unclear relation with the story of Rockman ZERO, which has only become more unclear with the complete disregard for these titles in the Zero Collection timeline.
So what are we to think now? Does the story branch from Command Mission into Rockman Online and Rockman ZERO? Or does it begin branching as early as X6? Rockman Online definitely carries a premise highly reminiscent of X7 and beyond, which Rockman ZERO does not have, outside of ZX Advent.
So.. discuss?
Strange for a Korean-exclusive such as this, both the quantity and quality of information given about the past leading to Rockman Online, has simply been astounding; not only have they accurately referred to the events of the end of the irregular wars as documented by Rockman ZERO, they also gave us new unique, yet fitting insight about other aspects of the Rockman world.
As such, I've been wondering for a while now; what is the canonical validity of this title in regards to the main storyline? Other than the entire premise being quite out of the ordinary, I've seen preciously little to doubt it. But I'm wondering what other people think of this and how we will treat it as a community.
Adding to this, we've just now received word that Cinnamon, from Command Mission, will be appearing in Rockman Online, with a strange mention of visions from what seems another world, in which "Neo Arcadia" exists instead.
As you may know, the games after X6, Command Mission especially, have always held an unclear relation with the story of Rockman ZERO, which has only become more unclear with the complete disregard for these titles in the Zero Collection timeline.
So what are we to think now? Does the story branch from Command Mission into Rockman Online and Rockman ZERO? Or does it begin branching as early as X6? Rockman Online definitely carries a premise highly reminiscent of X7 and beyond, which Rockman ZERO does not have, outside of ZX Advent.
So.. discuss?
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Zero / Re: MegaMan Zero, then and now.
« on: November 11, 2010, 07:46:34 PM »Quote
I do?
I assume that the later he waits to sleep, the less time he sleeps and that 5 hours is indeed an amount of time less than the maximum and more than the minimum possible time spent doing something. Regardless of when it happens, the longer he waits, the more silly the amount of time he sleeps becomes. Doesn't help that somebody decided that "following X6" means anytime after X6 and not that he sleeps after X6 but before any other X games.
We, the fanbase, decided that the X6 Zero ending did not have to happen immediately following X6, in order to validate the X-series titles that follow. There is no official word whatsoever on how exactly those titles relate to Rockman Zero. Whether they were developed with that premise in mind, or follow a different ending to X6, these titles do nothing to mess up continuity.
Either way, Inticreates has only given us the statement that X1 to X6 is "1XX years ago" and that classic is "more than 200", with Zero being studied for "50 years." As the X-series spans no more than a few years up to that point, we have decades of leeway that only XCM could even begin to stress.
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It just sounds like the phrasing implies the Nightmare incident->sealing directly with nothing of import happening in between.
There are a couple of requirements for Zero sealing himself away. One of these as that people, including himself, acknowledge that he is spreading the virus. As X6 gives no indication of anybody beyond Gate knowing, how could Zero seal himself for a reason he is not yet aware of?
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Like the Guardians obviously couldn't have been active in the Elf Wars if they didn't exist prior to Dark Elf being sealed.
The only word of their activity prior to being sealed is the Shining Arms, which we can just presume were wielded by X, or are the epitome of Neo Arcadia propaganda.
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Zero / Re: MegaMan Zero, then and now.
« on: November 11, 2010, 12:05:32 AM »
You say that as if we know exactly in which year Rockman Zero takes place.
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Zero / Re: MegaMan Zero, then and now.
« on: November 10, 2010, 10:06:57 PM »
X7, X8 and XCM are also "following the nightmare incident". There is no timeframe specified.
Also, did you really miss all this discussion back when the Zero Collection site was first put online?...
Also, did you really miss all this discussion back when the Zero Collection site was first put online?...
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Zero / Re: MegaMan Zero, then and now.
« on: November 10, 2010, 07:37:13 PM »Quote
I love X8 as a game, but if we say X6 ruins the continuity, what then of X7 or X8? Just because X8 was a great game doesn't mean it's still screwing the continuity even more.
None of the aforementioned games ruined the continuity in any way.
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Is this the right place to ask about the soul-splitting of X sealing the Dark Elf? Specifically, if that happened, what the source is, and if the Guardians know about X being at Yggdrasil (if so, why do they accept Copy-X as the real one?).
From the Zero Collection site:
"The Legendary Blue Messiah" X
The legendary blue repliroid and ruler of Neo Arcadia who symbolizes "infinite potential" and a "purveyor of justice" for all.
Though he had done so for the sake of peace, he often worried over having to destroy his fellow repliroids during the long confrontations of the "Irregular Wars", a condition which went mostly unchanged even after Zero went to sleep following the Nightmare Incident.
In the closing period of the Irregular Wars (later referred to as the Elf Wars), X cooperated with Zero who had acquired a copy body, to capture the Dark Elf, and arranged to use his anti-virus countermeasure to seal her within his own body.
When he sealed the Dark Elf, the shock forced X's soul from his body and split it into 5 cyber elves.
Eventually, 4 of these souls were incorporated into the Shitennou of Neo Arcadia, while one continued to wander the earth.
This is further elaborated upon in CopyX's profile, which says that his body was originally produced to revive X after he sealed Dark Elf, but X's cyber elf vanished, requiring a copy instead.
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X / Re: No Love for x?
« on: November 10, 2010, 12:47:41 AM »Thumbs up was X4 and 5. :B But true. Still though from what weve seen, his personality gopt colder and more distant after X4.
It's been a while since I played X5, but that'd be all the more reason not to relate it to Iris.
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X / Re: No Love for x?
« on: November 09, 2010, 06:45:38 PM »Quote
Hell, he even stopped giving the thumbs up after X5.
Soul Eraser disagrees. And the thumbs up only appeared in one game.
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News and Announcements / Re: Keiji Inafune leaves Capcom (UPDATE)
« on: November 09, 2010, 06:38:31 PM »So people, one question:
Are we still talking about Inafune leaving?
Read the thread and find out.
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X / Re: No Love for x?
« on: November 09, 2010, 12:44:00 AM »
Depth does not equate to simply "character development". You're sorely forgetting "character exposition." In a short narrative such character exposition is much more important than character development, whereas in a longer narrative development and exposition go hand in hand.
The X-series is ultimately limited by its format as a platforming game series, defining it as multiple short narratives, with a status qua that cannot be easily upset. However, throughout the X-series X and Zero were given incredible exposition; defining them not only as characters, but also as a team. The two of them were placed in many different scenarios by many creative minds, lending us insight into their characters, even though character development was largely forsaken.
In contrast, SSR has a much longer narrative. In the important story sequences this allowed the narrative, at least the first title, to put quite a heavy focus on character development. After completing the game I was definitely pleasantly surprised with how well the main cast was fleshed out, but I did feel that they did not use the format to its fullest; there were simply far too many filler scenarios, making the narrative simply take way too long to get to where it needed to be. That is what I mean when I say: "the amount of talking a character does is not equal to the amount of depth a character has."
The X-series is ultimately limited by its format as a platforming game series, defining it as multiple short narratives, with a status qua that cannot be easily upset. However, throughout the X-series X and Zero were given incredible exposition; defining them not only as characters, but also as a team. The two of them were placed in many different scenarios by many creative minds, lending us insight into their characters, even though character development was largely forsaken.
In contrast, SSR has a much longer narrative. In the important story sequences this allowed the narrative, at least the first title, to put quite a heavy focus on character development. After completing the game I was definitely pleasantly surprised with how well the main cast was fleshed out, but I did feel that they did not use the format to its fullest; there were simply far too many filler scenarios, making the narrative simply take way too long to get to where it needed to be. That is what I mean when I say: "the amount of talking a character does is not equal to the amount of depth a character has."
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X / Re: No Love for x?
« on: November 08, 2010, 06:45:04 PM »Quote
where they get a chance to be not so shallow because of all the BLAH BLAH in their games.
The amount of talking a character does is not equal to the amount of depth a character has.
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News and Announcements / Re: Keiji Inafune leaves Capcom (UPDATE)
« on: November 07, 2010, 11:51:51 PM »
Any one of you have any ingame images of his helmet? Cause the only widespread image of Yoshikawa's X1 Zero is at an odd angle.
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News and Announcements / Re: Keiji Inafune leaves Capcom (UPDATE)
« on: November 07, 2010, 11:03:03 PM »Quote
Contradictory to that interpretation is Yoshikawa's front-facing "Zero II" image on that very page.
Honestly, I think the notes on that page are less than clear.
So we acknowledge we have no clue what exactly Yoshikawa's reasoning for the change was?
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News and Announcements / Re: Keiji Inafune leaves Capcom (UPDATE)
« on: November 07, 2010, 04:18:20 PM »Quote
I'm not sure what you thought I meant by "X3 character change screen", but I am perfectly aware of what you were talking about.
- see 0:35 Compact enough for you?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTFacGXgvvM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTFacGXgvvM</a>
You're referencing an issue fairly specific to Sensei's style, which was not a constant throughout the entire series. Width of the helmet may be interpreted independently of the height of the horns.
I distinctly recall Flame complaining that Zero's back horns should be visible at front views and not obscured by the others; creating a menacing appearence. But if it is solely Sensei's style, then we're acknowledging that the back horns originally were not visible at front view and that therefore, they technically shouldn't be. Much like Zero's shoulder pads shouldn't be as squared as Sensei depicts them.
When arguing solely on the height of the back horns, we're talking about what is a very minor difference only visible at side and 3/th view, that is not even constant within Maverick Hunter X. Whereas the production art raises it to match the model, Day of Sigma follows the lowered horns:
http://jef.mobile9.com:8080/download/wmpreview/158/1258237823-1.jpg
http://img.youtube.com/vi/G_zYsxFOwIM/0.jpg
So why this difference between model/production art and Day of Sigma? If I interpret the designer correctly, making a model of Sensei's more complex helmet design is only possible if it is less compact than they it wanted to be, hurting its appearence. The leveled horns instead allow for a more compact form that is harder to model, but would look better over all. Both designs have their advantages and disadvantages and the final decision was one of aesthetics; there is no level of laziness associated with it. As such, it's just you guys and the designer disagreeing on taste
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News and Announcements / Re: Keiji Inafune leaves Capcom (UPDATE)
« on: November 06, 2010, 11:44:39 PM »
You never tried beating High-Max early, did you?
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News and Announcements / Re: Keiji Inafune leaves Capcom (UPDATE)
« on: November 06, 2010, 10:47:39 PM »
Considering Inafune's desire to end the X-series at the fifth game, and Capcom's unwillingness to even touch that subject, I'd say that in regards to Wily in the X-series, we're screwed with or without Inafune. And that is something we should have realized as soon as X7 was released.
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News and Announcements / Re: Keiji Inafune leaves Capcom (UPDATE)
« on: November 06, 2010, 10:40:49 PM »
Makato Yabe developed the initial scenario of the ZERO-series, just as he did for ZX. Reviewing this premise, Inafune wanted Zero to be put in as the main lead. From there, Inticreates staff put together the story, with Capcom staff reviewing it and giving pointers.
Given the above, I think Inafune's involvement with the story of the X-series pretty much amounts to thinking up Zero's scenario. Inafune simply imagined "his" story for Zero, and let others work it into the games.
Given the above, I think Inafune's involvement with the story of the X-series pretty much amounts to thinking up Zero's scenario. Inafune simply imagined "his" story for Zero, and let others work it into the games.
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News and Announcements / Re: Keiji Inafune leaves Capcom (UPDATE)
« on: November 06, 2010, 10:05:25 PM »
Did he EVER get involved with classic stories? He always was a character designer. He had as much input into the story as any other member of the team.
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News and Announcements / Re: Keiji Inafune leaves Capcom (UPDATE)
« on: November 06, 2010, 10:00:46 PM »Quote
he only was a writer in X4
At best X1.
And I don't recall Inafune ever doing anything good for the story in Rockman. The only thing he's done is force Zero into it.
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News and Announcements / Re: Keiji Inafune leaves Capcom (UPDATE)
« on: November 06, 2010, 08:19:11 PM »What does any of this have to do with Inafune leaving?
Everything! Without Inafune Zero's helmet design can be butchered by Capcom with nobody to stop it!