Messages

1451

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: July 03, 2009, 11:25:24 AM »

1.  You say that Sigma was sane in X8.  He was not.  Every time Siggy transferred himself to a new body, he got crazier.  Compare X1's Original Sigma to X6's Reborn Sigma.

"It is not the case that Sigma was by any means insane."

2. You say the newgen reploids cannot go irregular.  The events of X8 disprove this; Lumine himself said that they can do so at will.

Lumine is completely oversimplifying the truth when he says that, he is deliberately talking to the hunters on their terms, using their dogma of irregularity. Before that point, everyone vehemently disagrees with that label. And being 'irregular' is just that, a label; that label is relative. The label has sometimes with pride been applied to themselves, but it has also with detest been applied to the current world order. These same themes re-appear throughout the entire Rockman series.

Quotes on the matter: 

LUMINE: We new generation Reploids enjoy complete and total immunity
to all viruses... So even copying something as dangerous as Sigma provides no
risk.

OPTIC SUNFLOWER: Berserk? I don't think so. We may not be the good guys, but
we're no monsters. No one has a right to put a stop to our plans!
OPTIC SUNFLOWER: No one can control us. You old models cannot even begin to
comprehend my master's - OUR - greatness!

DARK MANTIS: You've gotta be kidding me. We new generation Reploids can't go
Maverick.
DARK MANTIS: Hey there, X... Looks like you can't accept the fact that we're
not Mavericks.
DARK MANTIS: What exactly is controlling YOU, X? Hm? Your precious "justice"?
Is that it?

GRAVITY ANTONION: Maverick? Once again, you attach labels to me. What arrogance!
GRAVITY ANTONION: My master is not incorrect in his philosophy.
GRAVITY ANTONION: And the thought that it is this world that is evil has never
crossed your mind? Oh, forget it... If you get in my way, I'll destroy you!

GIGAVOLT MAN-O-WAR: I'm no Maverick. Who are you, anyway?
GIGAVOLT MAN-O-WAR: I'm no Maverick... I'm not doing anything wrong... I'm work-
ing hard to realize my master's dream of a new world.

ZERO: Hmpf. I could never understand the ideals of Maverick slime!
AVALANCHE YETI: You truly are an old model, aren't you? You can't change the
world with that thinking.

BURN ROOSTER: This is no ordinary riot. This is revenge! Revenge for all the
Reploids you labeled Mavericks and threw onto this scrap heap!
BURN ROOSTER: This is what you mean when you speak of justice? It's you who
should be scrapped! There's no place for Reploids like you in the new world we
will create!

BURN ROOSTER: Hmpf. All I'm doing is listening to the cries of pain... The
cries of all the Reploids you've sent here here because you decided they were
Mavericks.
ZERO: If you can hear all that, I guess that means you're a Maverick too, huh?
BURN ROOSTER: Ha! You'll soon realize who's wrong and who's right in this
struggle.

LUMINE: To put it in a way you'd understand, we of our own free will can become irregulars.

3. You say that they have Sigma of his own free will rebelled against humanity;  he only did so after being corrupted with the program that made Zero go nuts to begin with.  That's not free will;  that's being corrupted into madness.

Why are we disagreeing with factual statements?...

Lumine: It isn't the case that Sigma was by any means insane.
Lumine: Sigma, of his own free will, rebelled against your world.
Lumine: And us repliroids of the new generation, are able to become like Sigma at any time.
Lumine: The copy chip was made from the analysis of various former Repliroids, and among them, naturally, Sigma is there too.

The data of Sigma's original body gives the New Generation the ability to become like Sigma; they think like he does.

Sigma did not go nuts thanks to the Virus, that's a fan assumption. Being infected just made him a new existence as a malicious virus program. Sigma's way of thinking never changed, he simply acquired the means to act on his philosophy. Sigma's philosophy is a result of him being what who he is and learning of the world. As a man without worrying, compassion, hesistation, as a man of logic, that is the conclusion he came up with.

Sigma's philosophy was first formed by seeing X's justice, before he ever came into came into contact with Zero he already began to think about the imperfections of the world. That philosophy is what binds the new generation.

Sigma's pride and self confidence were tattered by Zero. Sigma subsequently desired more power, he desired to evolve. Combined with the imperfections of this world, he realized that humanity was holding back Repliroid progress.

Finally, hearing of X's ability to worry, Sigma learns of limitless evolutionary potential, the power to exceed all Repliroids. But in an ironic twist, it is Sigma that does not worry, he lacks compassion and therefore does not hesitate. All aspects that make him into an irregular from the very start are the same aspects that make limitless potential so far from his grasp.

And thus begins the war of progress, instigated by the Sigma Virus that can turn any Repliroid into an irregular.

4.  Disregarding the fact the IHX was a retcon,  VAVA wasn't completely sane either;  his only real goal was his obsession with X.  He rebelled of his own free will, yes, but he did so the same way Repliforce did.

VAVA and Repliforce are completely different. VAVA from the start is the anti-thesis to X, enjoying violence thanks to the defect on his brain whereas X is a paradoxical pacifist hero because of the circuitry in his brain overworking itself. VAVA never was part of society, VAVA never had any inhibitions, he is just trying to hold up the facade of regularity so that he can destroy Repliroids as an Irregular Hunter. It is his choice to discard this disguise and go irregular; it is for this reason that he go irregular of his own free will/of his own accord. Sigma and the New Generation are the same; they can decide to stay normal as long as they want, or they can accept their real selves and decide to become irregulars.

Repliforce on the other hand is an army for the human government that tried their best to please humans. However, thanks to their social situation; between their strong allegiance to the humans, their pride and Sigma's manipulation, the label of irregularity was forced upon them.


 

1452

X / Re: Little busters.

« on: July 03, 2009, 03:05:19 AM »

I'll stick to "Too fast to see" explanation myself, as it fits with the gameplay with having almost no delay between normal hand at the side, and firing buster with the press of a button.

Well, it is "too fast to see" according to the sourcebooks. They actually list the fraction of a second needed for that transformation.

1453

X / Re: The Z Buster

« on: July 03, 2009, 01:01:00 AM »

This isn't saying a lot considering that X3 didn't sprite the X3 buster.

But, as you yourself admit, the X1~3 style is barely adequate in depicting what it is supposed to depict. X5 is a completely different story as X6 shows it is entirely possible.

Of course, X5 is one mucked up game anyway.... so many small weird things.

The X2 buster ceased to exist in artwork after X2, by time of events, not time of drawing, as X5 itself establishes.  That's a bizarre coincidence to be showing up in a game that is allegedly supposed to be the first to acknowledge the simultaneous possession of both models.

Maybe we should note it down for the next round of "ask Inafune-san".

1454

X / Re: The Z Buster

« on: July 02, 2009, 10:44:21 PM »

He can also not be using the X2 style buster against X.  But he does anyway.

So, yeah, that's a pretty weak source.  It's highly suspect as falling under developer laziness.  From a choreography standpoint, especially when videos are not in use, the Z-Buster is just easier to work with.

But developer laziness applies to the battle moreso than anything else. With the introduction stage, they went to great lengths to justify a mere gameplay limitation in the plot, creating new sprites for both X and Zero. Subsequently in the ending they're using a buster even though they justified Zero not having one before...

And in this case, they for some reason went and made the X2 buster in sprites, even though they could just as easily have made the X3 buster... All in all, it would seem they were trying to tell us something, but screwed up by not respriting Zero's buster for the X and Zero battle.

1455

Rockman Series / Re: So Reploids eat Energy Crystals... and it's also their currency.

« on: July 02, 2009, 07:54:30 PM »

That's not X8's system, we've had that for a while now.

1456

Rockman Series / Re: So Reploids eat Energy Crystals... and it's also their currency.

« on: July 02, 2009, 02:31:20 PM »

Not in this series.

1457

Rockman Series / Re: So Reploids eat Energy Crystals... and it's also their currency.

« on: July 02, 2009, 01:58:42 PM »

None do.

1458

Anime & Manga / Re: Naruto (Manga Discussion Mainly)

« on: July 02, 2009, 01:58:07 PM »

swing and a miss.

Was well aware that was going to pop up. But the point remains Madara has been pissing off Sasuke from the start; killing the Uchiha, being a former Kage himself, destroying Konoha in advance, trying to boss him around. Madara has been puppeteering it all to the point Sasuke has every reason to kill him. But as Madara considers himself unable to be harmed, he does not fear treading that thin line.

As far as him being Danzo is concerned, Danzo shows nothing but a need to -rule- Konaha while Madara wanted to crush it period. If Madara was Danzo, he wouldn't have hid while Konaha was destroyed, or for that matter, killed the messanger Frog that was going to get Naruto and bring him to the village, he would have let it bring Naruto so Pain could have attempted to capture him.

That's simply not true, the major problem in Madara's plan is Naruto stopping Pain. By stopping the messenger frog, Danzo was doing exactly as Madara planned. Madara wasn't after the Kyuubi at all. He first needs the 8-tail. Madara was simply attacking Konoha to further his hidden agenda. Which is the Kage meeting. To send Sasuke to the Kage meeting, he needed Konoha destroyed and Danzo as hokage. Danzo who used the Pain incident Madara started to become Hokage. It should further be taken into account that it was Madara that wanted to be hokage himself.

So, either Madara is using Danzo like a puppet and Danzo is going to get killed as part of Madara's plan, or Madara and Danzo are working together with Danzo knowing how to avoid getting beat by Sasuke, or Madara and Danzo are the exact same person; even if Madara isn't really powerful, he can avoid damage and instantly escape. All the same, the kages are going to get killed by Madara and Madara will avoid any suspicion in the process.

Really, it's not like I truly believe Danzo to be Madara, for the most part I just think there's a strong connection between the two, Madara having made immensely proper use of anything Danzo did for himself. This includes the creation of Pain and the Uchiha Massacre.

1459

Rockman Series / Re: So Reploids eat Energy Crystals... and it's also their currency.

« on: July 02, 2009, 12:59:01 PM »

In nice little canisters?

1460

Rockman Series / Re: So Reploids eat Energy Crystals... and it's also their currency.

« on: July 02, 2009, 12:41:17 PM »

Do YOU leave behind poop when you die?

1461

X / Re: The Z Buster

« on: July 02, 2009, 12:40:17 PM »

And you don“t think that Isoc (aka Dr.Wily), would have created a new Z-Buster to replace the one which was destroyed by Sigma“s explosion in the ending of X5?

You seem to misunderstand what I'm referring to...

I'm talking about how in X5, Zero trashes his X2 style buster in the intro to the game. But, Zero uses his X3 style buster in the ending to defeat Sigma. If Zero had just one buster, Zero could not have defeated Sigma in the manner that he did.

1462

X / Re: The Z Buster

« on: July 02, 2009, 02:31:04 AM »

Source?  To the best of my knowledge that's merely a popular assumption.

Well, X5 is the source... trashing one in plot only to whip out another at the ending...

1463

Anime & Manga / Re: Naruto (Manga Discussion Mainly)

« on: July 01, 2009, 11:16:37 PM »

Sasuke stated that he wanted to kill Danzo. He saw the face under Tobi's mask. If Danzo was Marada, Sasuke would be trying to kill Tobi/Marada. Beside that, I would think that the Third would have noticed/knew who Danzo was seeing as how he was one of his close advisers.

If Madara was mizukage, Sasuke would be trying to kill him. Oh wait, Madara IS mizukage.

Besides, this is Madara, someone who can be literally in two places at once, someone that can't be hurt. He's someone far out of anyone's league. And everything really seems to be going just as planned.

1464

X / Re: [Rockman X] OMG TEH MOONSPEAK!!

« on: July 01, 2009, 06:05:03 PM »

Thanks for the update.

But...

フォースアーマー (fo-su a-ma-) = Force Armor (X4, X5) -NEW-

It's "Fourth". "Force" is the mistranslation. The name is also X5-exclusive. Alia named her recreation of X's armor the Fourth Armor because it was based on the fourth that X acquired..

Valius

Valius, Varius, Barius, Balius?...

1465

X / Re: [Rockman X] OMG TEH MOONSPEAK!!

« on: July 01, 2009, 10:02:45 AM »

With all the weapons included, shouldn't the armors and other items be included into the list?

1466

X / Re: The Z Buster

« on: June 30, 2009, 11:21:24 PM »

The Z-saber still cannot charge on its own accord. Gameplay mechanics have the Z-saber accessible through charge levels of the buster, never on its own.

The Z-saber's ability to charge is factually based on Rock Buster mk. 17 tech, which it does not have during the X-series. With the bustershot's charge ability based on the Z-saber's insertion, both series are an exact inverse of each other.

Zero's Z-Buster is by default superior to the X-Buster

Plot clearly establishes the X-buster as the superior weapon given X's limitless evolutionary potential. Further lampshaded by the gradual weakening of the Z-buster in comparison to the X-buster. But, even during Sigma's first rebellion, it is the X-buster that's consistently seen as a superior weapon; it's use against that berserk mechaniloid and VAVA's reaction to it exemplify this. What's stronger than the X-buster is not the Z-buster, but rather, X using the Z-buster. And even then, there's clearly something fishy going on between Zero's buster and the first armor's official buster upgrade.

Even Forte can charge his Buster.

And Forte is made in Rockman's image.

1467

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: June 30, 2009, 11:11:19 PM »

There's a strong indication that the Virus affected his psyche to some degree in the sourcebook notion that "the evil virus' hold over him was complete' and "a darkness began to grow in his heart." But all that is a vague oversimplification of the truth.

Still, saying you can become Maverick at will is like saying you can go Joker-class, batshit insane at a moment's notice, which is clearly not true for Reploids unless the Zero/ Sigma/ Maverick/ Nightmare Virus is involved.

The point is something far deeper than that. It isn't about insanity at all. Lumine after all clearly emphasizes that Sigma is sane.

The first key point is that their viral immunity is absolute; they can not go irregular.

The second key point is that they have Sigma's data, therefore they can literally become like Sigma. Despite popular assumption, Sigma of his own free will decided to rebel against the old world.

Irregular Hunter X further elaborates the concept in that both VAVA with his glitched electronic brain too can become an irregular of his own free will. Placing him and Sigma as opposites of X who has the desired ability of worrying and limitless potential. Worrying which equals compassion, which Sigma does not have. Sigma has no moral restrictions, but he's perfectly sane. This concept is further alluded to in the ZX-series in regards to the DASH tie in.

1468

X / Re: The Z Buster

« on: June 30, 2009, 10:38:33 PM »

As a plothole, it should be treated as something unknown, that is, an unstated event during the X to ZERO interim. This is especially true with Zero's buster being deliberately missing in action. You don't suddenly go claiming Zero's been using handheld weapons since X2 just because there's no plot explanation as of yet. Such a weird 'artistic' approach violates everything presented in the games; it really doesn't work that way. Do realize that the bustershot specifically works with the Z-saber to allow for charging. The Z-saber can charge slash thanks to X-buster technology; the MMX-series Z-saber does not have the ability to charge up.

1469

X / Re: The Z Buster

« on: June 30, 2009, 09:09:40 PM »

Inti Creatives states, that the Bustershot was always used by ZeroMKII (the one which Sagesse created and which was turned later into Omega by Dr. Weil).

No they don't. Inticreates states the bustershot is from Milan.

In other words; quote or it did not happen.

Or it was Artistic Laziness when the sprites were made. Easier to recolor the sprites instead to redo each with the Buster...

There is no laziness in Omega's sprites, he deliberately fires the bustershot in a different fashion than Zero.

1470

X / Re: The Z Buster

« on: June 29, 2009, 10:35:16 PM »

However why changed Sagesse (Dr. Wily) than the arm cannons to pstols in X2? X uses a arm cannon, so why not Zero?

Inti Creatives.... 

What do Serges and X2 have to do with it? The bustershot comes about AFTER XCM. For the bustershot to exist, the Z-saber should first have Rock Buster Mk. 17 technology.

1471

X / Re: The Z Buster

« on: June 29, 2009, 09:33:36 PM »

The premise is flawed; the bustershot is not just a design change of Zero's buster, it is literally a new weapon because Zero no longer has his old Z-buster. It's a weapon he presumably gained during the X to ZERO interim.

1472

Rockman Series / Re: So Reploids eat Energy Crystals... and it's also their currency.

« on: June 29, 2009, 08:05:52 PM »

Less like robots, more like people.

Unless you're thinking of those weird procreating mechaniloids.

1473

Zero / Re: Lyrics

« on: June 29, 2009, 05:54:27 PM »

I wouldn't just call it a confession, the first verse of Freesia "It's not forever..." is the ending theme to ZERO4. The song is about her overflowing emotions in reaction to the reality of Zero's death; denying that reality with hope of the impossible dream that is their reunion.

1474

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: June 28, 2009, 04:48:04 PM »

Somebody said it, at least. >.>

1475

Original / Re: What is the future of Rockman and his friends?

« on: June 28, 2009, 12:56:26 PM »

It also makes things abit silly no matter what. 

If you put everything like that, it becomes silly, no matter what. But really, this is the classic series, lighthearted cheesy and silly plotlines are the status quo.

That is under the assumption that MM has to die. It is possible that he doesn't die. Yet continues to live peacefully in his 'new home'.

During the production of X and Zero, the Wily Incidents officially ended. Afterward, it is official that Wily died in the interim of classic and X.

Similar scenarios during the Quint and R-Shadow timeline(s). Wily had retired, Rock had retired. That momentary blissful peace will always occurs before the world of the future goes to hell.