Messages

1426

X / Re: Why aren't copy reploids near unkillable?

« on: July 08, 2009, 06:02:46 PM »

Now people can´t think for themselves is that what you wanted!? Is it!? Is it?! Now take  responsibility for that!

No, it is you who's refusing change! With your unwillingness to evolve, you are the true Mavericks!

1427

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: July 08, 2009, 05:59:10 PM »

I can and I have.

he was just a disposable character though...

Well... pretty much everything's a disposable character back then... But the little guy had a slightly more expanded role in the manga, even if he never got close to a Cheval; he's a kid who looked up to X, sound familiar? Just revive him with a copy chip and there you have it; Axl.

Besides, this is the same game that managed to bring up such obscurities as Road Attackers and Road Riders in regards to a boss modeled after Crash Roadsters. Followed by its RPG sequel bringing out every obscure mechaniloid Capcom ever made for the X-series.

 

1428

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: July 08, 2009, 05:21:31 PM »

4koma strip

The character designers makes it seem like much more.. Take a look at the X7 OST translation below.

---

CAPCOM INTERVIEW
This is the story of how Axl was born. I was planning on making a new character since I started this development. It was very hard to decide the details in the characterization and then only half a year ago…we decided to make this new character. We have to have some freshness (new) & also it has to be accepted by the Rockman X fans. I was so careful to this point, because of my effort, everything was done very well. Axl's trademark is the scar on his forehead. This scar was put on Axl's head at the very last moment.

There are no scars on the original design to tell you the truth….I forgot to order to have the scar included in Axl's character design. At the time we were almost finished with Axl's character design, I said …..
"Oh…oh…I forgot about Axl's scar!"

I was so sorry for the designers, but after the X7 story….when it comes to Axl, the scar on his forehead is probably the most important thing about him. I asked the designer to put the scar in the most outstanding place on his forehead. As for the gun…we decided to set the copy shot immediately but it was very hard to implement this design. In the game you can't really see it well, but we did the gun design again and again anyway.

"I bet you're not getting all this stuff I am talking about…..ha,ha,ha!"

So I put in lots of time and effort. I feel that Axl is my adorable child. Please give your love to him.

----

As you can see on the X7 site, there are numerous Axl designs, some with broken helmets, but none with the scar on his face. As the 3d models reveal the full "X" scar is obscured by his helmet, I tend to see it like something of a birthmark. The 4koma might nicely explain why his helmet is undamaged even though his skin isn't, it would just far less important that it's implicated to be...

are you saying Axl could have been a regular hunter who became a new gen?

That's exactly what I'm saying, and I have a well known character in mind, I'd say what's known of his personality fits Axl nicely. Though people can't see it because of that character's cult status...

1429

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: July 08, 2009, 04:49:31 PM »

Doesnt mean anything... If anything, It has just affected Axl, maybe a catalyst for something. It is odd that in Command mission his copy ability has evolved to the lengths it has. Lumine's influence and the Newgens will show up ahain, but im not so sure about Lumine himself.

Thing is, you're stating that Lumine has no way to come back; he does. What happened there is completely out of the ordinary. Why would something non mechanical emerge from his body? For all we know, that is the very Virus you're saying they can't use. Remember, the New Generation might be immune to the negative influence of the Virus, but they also have Sigma's DNA; why would they not be able to make use of it?

About Axl?

Literally everything could have happened to Axl in the past... But, I would say Axl is more valuable than that; his Sigma Virus immunity is complete... I doubt they would risk losing that if they themselves produced it. There has been shown to be fear for unanalyzable robots, to the point of hunting them down, which is why I personally have taken a liken Rodrigo's assessment that Gate could be related. But that leads us to the same end; Axl being hunted down and saved by Red, leading to Red's lost eye.

However, I think there's much more to Axl than just that. He feels related to X and Zero; his true personality emerges during the hunt. This connection makes me think it's much more than the Copy Chip being a result of the study of X and Zero's data. Maybe Axl was once related to X and Zero, maybe Axl was once a hunter?

Also, the immense relation between the Copy Chip and X and Zero actually seems to rule out Gate.. he never quite analyzed X and Zero and he never obtained his dream of a Sigma Virus cure.. But what of Gate after X6? Of course, that brings us back to square one; what's Axl's lost memory and how did Red lose his eye?

Finally, another something of note is the scar on Axl's face.. it was said to be the most important aspect of him in the story after X7... so what is up with that scar?..

1430

X / Re: Why aren't copy reploids near unkillable?

« on: July 08, 2009, 04:35:19 PM »

Who is this Zan you people speak of?...

Step up a gear and think for your self.

1431

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: July 08, 2009, 02:32:29 PM »

Lumine is most definitely dead. How would he come back? He's not Sigma, he does not have the Virus.

Uh... taken a good look at X8's ending lately? You really think what happened there is normal for a Repliroid? Something completely non mechanical emerged from his corpse and put something inside of Axl; it is almost certain that he will be back.

1432

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: July 07, 2009, 01:54:10 AM »

Every X4 related sourcebook makes a relation between Sigma going evil and the virus infection, some more blatant than others. And then there's...

Inafune sounds confused. Maybe you guys need to explain how Sigma was going to change his allegiance anyway even if he never had the virus. Or more accurately, that Sigma's allegiances never really changed at all, because he was an unemphatic calculating monster from the beginning. It's so obvious! /sarcasm

"Insanity" and "Evil" are two mutually exclusive terms, Marshmallow. That Sigma is going insane is the fan assumption. That Sigma changed seems clear enough; he merged with the Virus and became evil. How that expanded his psyche is unclear, but Sigma makes direct allusions to that fact even within X8. Doesn't mean he went nuts and is insane.

I would say that as a man of logic, Sigma would accept the conclusion he came up with. But during his hunter times, his compassion was still a bit higher than it is today, so based on that compassion, he rejects his own philosophy.

It's a wonder how or when Sigma ever saw X's justice, especially to say it was early on.

My honest mistake, I had the mistranslated Xtreme intro in the back of my mind when writing. You're right, Zero joined before X. And at that time, X was still doubting himself.

Being decisive doesn't lend itself to being amoral or without compassion. When Cain talks about Sigma not having X's problem of worrying too much, he is not saying that he thinks Sigma is entirely unfeeling or morally bankrupt. His rebellion was as much a surprise to Cain as anyone else.

Of course, it doesn't, but it makes quite an easy jump from that to how he is today.

Where did it prove that?

Well, the body is most certainly his original one in a new design, saber and everything. However, that not saying if its before or after the battle with Zero. Perhaps because Zero's Virus seems to have slightly changed Sigma's DNA, there's the aggressive reaction which causes the awakening of the New Generation. But when it comes down to it, the most vital point is that though they have Sigma's DNA, a connecting with the Virus is not required to achieve the same state of mind as Sigma.

Now, how can we say that Sigma meddled with the copy chips,and not that the scientists who developed them were just incredibly stupid?

I honestly don't think Sigma meddled with the copy chips, rather, he became interested after his own DNA was included, deciding to make good use of it. Redips on the other hand most likely meddled with Copy Chip production to once again include the awakening process. Of course, we must also question who is behind the New Generation in general, however did the government come to acquire something that was once exclusive to Axl?

1433

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: July 06, 2009, 01:27:22 PM »

What source denotes Neo Sigma as Sigma's FINAL form in X2 and not his first?  The X2 credits list only one form, Neo Sigma, with set Speed and Power of 18500rp.

As Vixy said, the Compendium lists Neo Sigma as his final form. But for obvious reasons the RP ratings in the game belong to the first form. I think they decided on the change because in general, only the final forms have distinct names, whereas the first form is always just Sigma.

1434

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: July 05, 2009, 11:10:38 PM »

Sigma only had an army in X1 and X2.  He stole someone else's in the other games.  As a matter of fact, the bosses in X5 were all random reploids that had stuff the hunters needed for the Cannon and Shuttle.

It's very naieve to think Sigma's forces are limited to the scope of the game.

Lastly, about the free will thing: If what you say is true about the robots having free will in the Classic series, then what did studying X accomplish?  They already knew right and wrong; they were programmed with it.

"To determine it for themselves."

It seems to me we're starting to argue what the definition of Irregular/Maverick is in the X series.

That's the entire point, there is no set definition. It's highly dependent on who is saying it.

1435

X / Re: Armors and Weapons

« on: July 05, 2009, 10:29:55 PM »

X discards the weapons and returns the armors to the Capsules. Because weapons of war are very bad.

Except when he dishes out the X4 weapons along with the Ultimate Armor? >.>

1436

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: July 05, 2009, 10:20:41 PM »

1. No, X3 is Neo2.  It's in the OST.  The Wireframe Sigma Head is the Virus form.  The body in X2 was Neo Sigma, not the Head.

What OST are you talking about? Compendium of Rockman X outright identifies the X3 final form as Neo Sigma and lists the X3 forms as Sigma and Kaiser Sigma respectively. Let alone the game credits stating so.

3. He was a leader in X1.  X2 was the remnants of his army gathering together. X3 was everyone obeying the corrupted Doppler. X4 was all Repliforce. X5 had no central leader. X6 was Gate. X7 was Red Alert. X8 was the New Gens.

Regardless of the state of his army at any time, him being a charismatic leader is a fact. Therefore he's sociable, has a sense of morals, can quickly adapt to any situation, has responsibility and knows when he himself is to blame for something. The fact that he disagrees with everything he was thought as Hunter is his own choice.

The free will thing still has me confused.  Aren't Reploids able to make their own choices and decisions, unfettered by programming?

Robots have had free will ever since the classic series. Repliroids are simply a step up, being able to 'determine right and wrong for themselves'.

But free will is never free. Do you really think a human's 'free will' is truly free? Our very lives are the chains that bind us; physics, DNA, compassion, logic, morals, ethics, experience, laws, society. Repliroids might have free will, but there are not by definition irregular because they are bound within the confines of regularity. Sigma by the very definition of his being is an irregular from the start in that he was never bound to morals, ethics, compassion, law and society.

1437

X / Re: The Z Buster

« on: July 05, 2009, 10:19:32 PM »

All this is nice and all, but isn't this topic about Zero's buster?

Oh, and someone said that the buster was trashed in the intro; in that interval isn't it possible that simply he had it repaired?

No. Since you still can't use it during the game.

1438

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: July 05, 2009, 09:39:58 PM »

Neo2 Sigma was the official name of X3 Sigma's first form.

"Neo Sigma" is a name used for X2's final Sigma. X3's Sigma is just referred to as "Sigma" and "Kaiser Sigma" for his final form.

Not learning from experience fits too: 8 mavericks everytime.

Yeah, an arbitrary gameplay limitation is a sign of Sigma not learning? Just because the game only focuses on eight bosses doesn't mean there are more. Besides, not all of the eight have the same allegiance in a few of the games.

Really, no matter what number of forces he has, X and Zero will always defeat them.

Most of these definitely seem to fit Sigma

Really, they don't. Sigma is a charismatic leader. That alone negates the good majority of symptoms.

1439

Rockman Series / Re: So Reploids eat Energy Crystals... and it's also their currency.

« on: July 05, 2009, 02:32:42 PM »

Zero was too strictly scripted. They could have at least have made him have a little emotion... Sad
Axl had an ANOYING voice 'Nuff said

Play the Japanese version.

Really, Zero isn't 'too strictly scripted', he just had an emotionless voice actor. Script-wise you can even see him cracking jokes with the likes of Ride Boarski.

But I guess people just don't get the stuff about Road Attackers, Road Riders and Crash Roadsters.

1440

ZX / Re: Mmm About The manga

« on: July 05, 2009, 02:29:05 PM »

Speaking of Lurerre... Miyabi, do you happen to have any better images of Lurerre's disguise there? It's not very clear on that page.

1441

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: July 05, 2009, 02:27:02 PM »

CyberXIII, you seem to be confusing the terms 'unethical' and 'insanity'.

Sigma's philosophy is one achieved for a large portion by logical thinking, he is very much correct in the conclusions he made; they were made with a sane mind. It's just that his conclusion requires a clear lack of ethics to accept; Sigma's philosophy is that humanity is holding back Repliroid evolution and therefore should be eradicated. Even someone like X can accept Sigma's philosophy as logical, he just vehemently detests it for its unethical aspect. As a result, X considers Sigma's unethical actions as being 'insane.'

So, it boils down to what I proposed before.. Is being ethical sanity? Is being unethical insanity? Or vice versa? Strong emotions of care surely cloud the rational mind, so how is that sane? A complete lack of care has no inhibitions, so how is that sane? Good, evil, sane, insane, regular, irregular.

'The issue isn't so black and white.'

However, you still seem to be blaming the Virus for Sigma's state of mind... don't... X8 clearly proves that using the DNA of the original Sigma induces the same state of mind as the current Sigma; it allows people to see his philosophy as correct by viewing it with his lack of compassion. The Virus isn't affecting the New Generation at all and they have the DNA of his original body; so how could it be that the Virus is responsible for Sigma's change of heart?

1442

Zero / Re: About Omega

« on: July 05, 2009, 01:53:29 PM »

The statement is:

"showing at least as much if not more potential than the last".

Which is not the same as saying in fact that it has more potential. He has certain additions like the transformable Z-saber. And who knows where the Form Change system comes in. But it also has several things it lacks compared to the original. There is the clear cut lack of a ground punch and a 2x buster - saber combo. We could also put heavy question marks behind the new gameplay limitations of Zero's Learning Ability and the related lack of originality between titles.

All in all, that statement exists solely, beyond the matter of 'heart', to excuse the fact that a copy could do such impossible things as depicted in the games. He after all plowed through all the Vile Numbers, followed by three Dark Elf enhanced forms of Omega.

1443

News and Announcements / Re: New EXE Game To Be A Remake Confirmed?

« on: July 05, 2009, 02:13:34 AM »

plus show how folks would react to L3 if it came out...

People would react: "why make this [parasitic bomb] when they could have made legends3".

1444

News and Announcements / Re: News Round Up: June 28th - July 4th

« on: July 04, 2009, 08:08:38 PM »

I really don't get why we keep asking Seth for new releases, all he knows is what's being currently being localized, and by that time the Japanese game has already been released. He doesn't know anything about the Japanese side of things.

1445

News and Announcements / Re: New EXE Game To Be A Remake Confirmed?

« on: July 04, 2009, 06:53:09 PM »

Things it was going to have was funneled into MHX instead. We were promised Ocean group Re dubs of X4 5 and 6, a completely re- translated script for X6, remixed music for the first 3 games, and bonus features through the nose.

As far as I'm concerned, MMN lied to you, deal with it.

1446

Rockman Series / Re: So Reploids eat Energy Crystals... and it's also their currency.

« on: July 04, 2009, 06:47:54 PM »

I mean the way X8 presents it. Well, X7 had similar though.

We've been using weird game over - continue mechanics ever since X5.

1447

X / Re: What did Lumine mean?

« on: July 04, 2009, 01:42:31 PM »

How exactly was that going to help the human race?  (The project, not Sigma's meddling.)

The plan wasn't Sigma's, the plan was humanity's. What relevance does it hold in discussing Sigma's state of mind?

This is a dying world, the Orbital Elevator is the route to space, allowing transportation between Earth and the moon's surface. By using the Orbital Elevator, the biggest danger of breaking through the atmosphere is already avoided.

and as for the mavericks-do you know how many clearly insane people deny their own craziness?  Plus, some of the greatest geniuses in the world are at least eccentric.

3. Your description of the Maverick label sounds more like the Repliroid label in general.  Weren't they designed with the ability to have free will and choose to follow humanity willingly in the first place?

Being built with free will does not at all implicate freedom, you are bound by the rules of reality, society and your own conscience.

The question is here, what is truly free? Following society, following the inhibition that is the conscience? Or is true freedom breaking away from society and throwing away the inhibition that is the conscience in favor of your true self?

Those like Sigma propose the strong question whether or not someone like X, who worries, has a heart, has compassion, as someone who denies change, is the true irregular. Likewise, those more like X consider the likes of Sigma who has no conscience, no compassion, wishes to change the world by destroying the current society, as the  true irregular.

Those 'evil' apply the label of irregular to those 'good', whereas those 'good' apply the label of irregular to those 'evil'. But who determines who is evil and who is good? In that same line of thought, who determines who is sane and who is insane? Who is irregular and who is regular?

--

"Maverick? You don't really think that's the case, do you? That's why
you can't finish me off, right? You don't have it in you..."

"Who are you to judge!? Only future generations will have the right to
say whether we are truly Maverick or not."

"Maverick? You seem more Maverick to me. With all your stubborn
nonsense about friendship and... and your unwillingness to evolve."

"Stay in our place, be friendly to all, decade after decade...
indefinitely... Is this all Reploids will ever be? Some day... you'll see...
We'll... Change the world."

"The destiny of destruction...  Still awaits...  So long as you have hearts, hate will lurk in the shadows.  You who possess the wellspring of emotion known as the heart...  You are the true Mavericks!"

"Hmph... By drowning in peace, by rejecting change, you made the choice for the destruction of the Earth. I am trying to create a new world. I want to bring new life into the world and protect its future."

1448

Zero / Re: About Omega

« on: July 04, 2009, 01:10:49 PM »

But don't worry, R20 X will hit the states late this year to early next year. It should help clear up anything...

R20 is NOT a story book.

Oh, and if the Zero in Z1 was a copy, why did they need to seal him away?  Wasn't the original virus in the original body?

Zero: As long as I'm around...the bloodstained history will repeat itself.
Zero: I've been constantly thinking...  For whom...for what...must we Repliroids kill one another...  Even at such a time...you kept believing in humans...  I trust you as my friend...  So...the words of the humans whom you believe in...I want to believe in.

I would have assumed they produced the Copy Body in case they couldn't revive Zero from the research outcome they were doing. A protocol procedure in other words. Plus since it would take time for a replica body to be produced it wouldn't make sense if the copy body was produced for the sole reason to fight Omega with X...

MMZOCW specifically points out Zero awakened in the copy body during the Elf Wars.

How long it has been in production is not stated, but the production of the copy body is entirely related to the production of Omega.

But really, what doesn't make sense? The Elf Wars is a four year war. Omega was started early on and a copy of X could be made by a 9 year old girl genius whose ancestor was a scientist alive during the Elf Wars and involved in Project Elpis..

1449

X / Re: The Z Buster

« on: July 03, 2009, 05:52:45 PM »

It's not handwavy, Capcom actually proposed the idea. >.>

1450

News and Announcements / Re: New EXE Game To Be A Remake Confirmed?

« on: July 03, 2009, 03:48:55 PM »

Because the first title is the oldest. Also, it helps to restart the plot at the start instead of the middle.