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Messages - Zan

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1251
Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon
« on: October 05, 2009, 07:39:43 PM »
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No matter what Mr. Ariga says, it still won't be canon. (Unless it's outside Megamix/Gigamix, but someone'd have to ask him directly) We'd have better luck with MMOCW/R20.

We have better luck with a book we already know includes no information of the sort? Sure, if you say so.

You forget, as Ariga is knowledgeable enough to have written sourcebooks on the series canon, anything he includes within his manga has to be evaluated in its validity to the canon. His stance on these matters has as much validity as a Capcom employee that worked directly on the story of the games. We just have to properly discriminate between his manga canon and Capcom's. Remember, Ariga was considered to be important enough to even draw a manga further detailing IntiCreates' concepts for Rockman9 within an official Inti CD release. And really, as it stands, this is the ONLY  source we have on such matters as BreakMan to date. At the very least, it's more than an evaluation of sprites that never even made it into the finalized game.

1252
Rockman Series / Re: Out of all the villains...
« on: October 05, 2009, 07:28:01 PM »
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The way I see it, only Weil comes close to the level of destruction and manipulation Sigma has achieved in his career.  But even Weil never conceived (nor achieved) planet-wide destruction.

As a result of Dr. Vile's ambitions, the Mother Elf was stolen and cursed to become the Dark Elf, the power that nearly destroyed the world. Using the Dark Elf and copies of the Dark Elf to control Repliroids and make these Repliroids fight amongst each other until none were left standing, the conflict known as the Elf Wars became the worst war in history. 60% of all humans, 90% of all Repliroids were wiped out. The conflict only heightened upon the completion of the messiah of his new world; Omega.

Using Dark Elf and Omega, he completed the operation to control all Repliroids. And using the satellite cannon known as Ragnarok he threatened to destroy the last remaining nature in the world, succeeded in killing the legendary hero Zero and remained a malicious force for centuries to come.

Tell me, how does he not exceed everything Sigma had done?

1253
Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon
« on: October 05, 2009, 06:32:29 PM »
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- Breakman and Protoman are two different people.  I actually had a debate with someone a long ways back about whay this idea made no sence.

You know, with the release of Gigamix, we might get some insight into the whole matter. Seeing what Ariga thinks of the whole BreakMan issue could potentially clear up a lot.

1254
Zero / Re: MegaMan Zero, then and now.
« on: October 03, 2009, 02:56:16 PM »
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Zero's return would have been the opportunity to work it out. Back then at least Zero actually remembered, and 100 years of peace is a lot of time away from that violence to heal. But far from showing that sadness, Telos has X appearing as idealistic as ever, showing mercy to dangerous enemies, refusing to accept Zero's sealing as necessary to avoid the cycle of violence, and even after that sad episode still continuing to follow his dream of a man and robot paradise. I could see the fighting being in reference to both, but as far as depression setting in, it makes more sense to me to be after.

I think in terms of the depression setting in. We always have some period of peace for him to work thing out. But instead of it healing him I think that only worsened his condition. After a century of fighting, his heart is set on that goal in his same old idealistic fashion. But with peace and the fighting that is starting again, painful memories long ago stored away resurface and his own tiredness is brought to like as he feels himself forced to take up arms once again.

At the time of Elf Wars, he had no opportunity to let his heart feel accustomed to peace, the peace was short lasted and the Irregular Wars returned full force as if it never ended. Furthermore, the events surrounding that war revolve around Zero and Zero himself returned during that war; X's doubts are thrown aside by the bond with his friend; fighting for him and fighting by his side.

At that time, X had no time to hesitate, no time to contemplate, he just did what needed to be done. But now the situation has changed in that X himself is incapacitated, sealing away the evil that nearly destroyed the world within his very body. He watches the changing of the world and sees that all their fighting was once again for naught. He sees Zero awakening and pick up the fight; he who sealed himself away to avoid further bloodshed is awakened in the midst of the repeating cycle of history.

Given that situation, even with his last endless battle being a century ago, the memories of that war remain. Only further fueled by the knowledge of the fragility of peace. Likewise, a hundred years ago X needed Zero's help to end the war. And now with him incapable of acting by himself and relying on Zero once more, a feeling of powerlessness would overcome him. With a century of peace cruelly broken, the reality of his feelings are all the more true; X can't create a utopia, the enemies will keep on coming, the battle is never ending and all X can do is rely on his friend's power.

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That their weapons were honored should mean they did do something worth praising. It would also mean that their tenure as pure environmentalists ended quite quickly if not practically before it began, though.

Well, we ought to take into account their current status as the four guardians of Neo Arcadia, the ones without equal in fighting prowess. Certainly in the past they had to have proven themselves beyond the operation to restore the land for them to take on such an important position within the Neo Arcadian army. This probably relates to how at the founding of Neo Arcadia the four units were seemingly already led by them, despite their peaceful objectives.

1255
X / Re: What did Lumine mean?
« on: October 02, 2009, 07:40:27 PM »
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Suffering circuit causes more suffering to fans than it seems to for reploids. If it had a mention in some other matter besides early concept material, I'd be more inclined to acknowledge it. Still, I don't mind brainstorming about it though.

If Suffering Circuit is the "true form" of the virus because the virus infects it in higher thinking robots, then Zero's viral DNA program should be essentially the anti-suffering circuit, that pushes the user to one side, or perhaps, to be uncaring towards either side. If Sigma damaged it, maybe the remaining portion operated more like a regular one, or Cain could have identified its damage and attempted to fix it, creating a unique hybrid circuit that yielded super high viral resistance.

I didn't mean it quite like that. Just that Zero's mental capabilities, being a "Repliroid" and all, were made to be similar to X and therefore include the function of worrying. With Worrying, his character is highly likely a virtuous one by default, as Hypershell proposed. Wily might have preferred aspects such as the enhanced processing power of Right's circuit, but this aspect is one that he needs to cancel out.

As we know, the Virus can controls the hearts of Repliroids. We've seen this change countless Repliroids from good to evil and we've seen what becoming one with this very Virus can do to a person. That a Zero capable of "worrying" works in combination with this Virus becomes very clear once we consider that he was intended to be built to be evil; not for justice. Wily employed that Virus to counter what he consider negative side effects of that circuit's use. As such, the virtuous Zero is just an unfortunate byproduct of his approach.

As for Zero's viral resistance, I think that's a thing that could warrant a topic on its own, much like the appearance of the mysterious W that started the circumstance that led to the transfer of the very Virus that resurrected Wily.

To make a long story short, I feel it's probably just a combination of Zero's Wily designed correlation with the Virus which empowers him in large quantities, the effort needed to purify the virtuous Zero to his original state, and the method of viral injection (direct or indirect). I don't think it's something that developed over time, just as much as I honestly wouldn't put much thought behind Cain's meddling. Cain probably just fixed up the gem, scratched the back of his head in puzzled amazement and was honestly surprised when Zero woke up without irregularities.




1256
X / Re: X8. I didnt like it all that much.
« on: September 30, 2009, 04:46:14 PM »
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but you have to start on the ground to do all that.

Yeah, that's the part I completely forgot about.... So scratch that suggestion.

You know, looking at the pit in question, it -looks-  easily doable with default wall kicks, but somehow isn't. I doubt you'd actually notice you're stuck outside of failing all the time. It just looks too doable for one not to try again and again.

1257
X / Re: X8. I didnt like it all that much.
« on: September 30, 2009, 03:50:46 AM »
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Shadow X

It's been ages since I played X6 and I'm trying to remember the lay out of that area in question. I wonder... is it not perhaps possible to cross that gap by making creative use of Shadow's ceiling cling capabilities?

1258
X / Re: What did Lumine mean?
« on: September 30, 2009, 03:44:47 AM »
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(final monologue before second round)

Thanks for the translation, that certainly clarifies that.

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Another letter brick in the text wall

Taking a few select points from the discussion...

On the matter of the Zero initially created without the Virus. I feel like I'm kinda in the middle of either your opinions. I do not think Wily created a hero purposely, but I do think he had a plan to take out that glaring weakness of his previous masterpieces. When examining Zero's mental capabilities, we must acknowledge how similar to Repliroids it truly is. With its mention in the questionable three keys, we must take into account the high probability of Zero's mental state being defined by the same "circuit" as X has.

On the matter of Wily's allegiance with others. I think Wily's a rather curious character all in all, and that's what makes him deep. He's the bad guy, surely. But he has a lot of redeeming qualities still in him, as demonstrated many times. He gives his own robots tremendous amounts of freedom, he loves all of them, but his anger can be as unforgiving as absolute as his orders are. Likewise, for all his hate, for all his annoyances, he even seems to like his own mortal adversaries; in his rivalry with Right he's never, in his constant struggles with Rockman, he has his own moral standards by which he lives. He's even once worried for his own enemy's will being.

All of that carries over into the X-series. I think Wily's joining forces with Sigma and Gate is quite genuine. He seems to truly like seeing others try and reach for the same goal as him. But all the same, he himself is not actively trying to achieve it anymore. Likewise, he can capture Zero at any time, but has not done so with much intensity. Wily kindly took a back seat in the grandiose plans that have unfolded, but just as easily he's the kind of person to suddenly take up action again and enter the stage casting away all his former bonds. In a very similar manner, Wily is contend seeing the world go to oblivion, but he also has no qualms seeing it saved. Such paradoxes between good and evil seems to define Wily's character.


1259
Zero / Re: MegaMan Zero, then and now.
« on: September 30, 2009, 12:47:02 AM »
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I get your meaning, but in the X6 sealing, X has no part. There's no tearful goodbye, no explanation, no inclusion of X in the scene at all besides in reference. It doesn't seem like the kind of think X would be absent from, which begs the question whether Zero didn't fail to consult him both times. We know X only caught the end word of the news and gets there just in time to say goodbye the second time around. During which, Zero tells X how much he trusts in him and what he believes in, so at least some level bequeathing is acknowledged for sure in this sealing.

In effect though, Zero is entrusting the world to X with either sealing. To X's protection, to X's judgment, for X to lead the world to peace and for Zero himself not to become an interference of that.

However, at the time of writing, X's words were surely in reference to X as "the superior hunter" who can take care of things without Zero around.

TELOS on the other hand is not about that, it's about peace having been achieved and Zero being the only aspect that remains to repeat the cycle of bloodshed. Zero was not talking about trusting X to take care of the world for he's already done so. He's solely talking about wanting to trust the humans in regards to his own evil.

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Battles, not one large one but a long stream of sad ones. Sad and difficult doesn't have to mean it was difficult for him to defeat whoever these were, they can be sad because the circumstances for each should have been avoidable, or difficult because the ceaseless destruction of robotic life feels unending and such toll in what should be a time of peace weighs heavily.

I wasn't talking about difficulty, I'm talking about quantity and frequency. No matter how you cut it, X's words fit more toward X6 than TELOS. Countless numbers, day after day, that is only true for the Irregular Wars. In the unstable times of Neo Arcadia's beginnings, we are dealing with enemy quantity and frequency relatively insignificant compared to the Irregular Wars. The irregular wars are a large stream of sad incidents, whereas the unstable beginnings of the utopia are more isolated incidents that occur at random.

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Which is pretty odd, isn't it? What non-combative usage do Phantom's shurikens fulfill? To ride them through the air while looking badass...? I guess.

Phantom is the one of the Big4 you have to take with a certain grain of salt. They likened it to the original Rockman's theme of all the bosses having a certain job. Phantom being X's personal safeguard, a combat orientated job, he follows the theme but at the same time can be seen as an exception.

But in that regard, I think you're quite right. It's Dark Cross that's listed, which has clearly a practical purpose in terms of mobility. As this can be of vital importance to protect X from a far. You can say this is similar to how Leviathan and Harpuia's use of their weapons to manipulate the ocean currents and weather respectively.

As for Fefnir, his occupation is rather unspecified in all the sources I have at my disposal... I can only assume it's quite similar to how later the "Scorched Earth Operation" was carried out.

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If the Shining Arms is a myth, there isn't much of a scheduled part to play...

The thing about the Shining Arms.... Aren't they the weapons used by the top Irregular Hunters from the Irregular Wars? By the time the Elf Wars comes about, the Irregular Wars had been thought as officially ended. If you take the Shining Arms literally, we say their creation and activity as Hunters even precede the time the lone hero X ended the war. But that outright conflicts his status as the lone hero. Therefore, I see just grounds to consider the Shining Arms as mere myths. Elf Wars, however, is after that, and thus a completely different story altogether.

Of course, it's always quite uncertain whether or not Elf Wars is its own distinct event or not. I feel that the times it's considered to be the same as the Irregular Wars, are part of the way history was covered up. The imagined scene of the irregular wars sparked by the Sigma Virus turning to Cyber Elf abuse and X ending that war using Mother Elf is all too convenient for Neo Arcadia. So, maybe the Shining Arms is list is accurate in that the Big4 fought in Elf Wars, but the lie is that the Elf Wars and Irregular Wars are one and the same. Which once more ties back to the contradictory time of Neo Arcadia's founding.

Instead of wondering what in the games warrants their inclusion in Elf Wars, I'm instead going to cover how it's possible, which is also what I alluded to in my previous post.
After the end of the Irregular Wars, the creation of the utopia Neo Arcadia's appears to be the most important matter at hand. The Big4 were created for Neo Arcadia, after all, Leviathan was made to win back the favor of the sea goddess and carried out her operation from the main shaft of Neo Arcadia.

Between Neo Arcadia's founding and the Big4's creation, the former takes considerably more time than the latter. As construction of Neo Arcadia began at the center of rebirth, the Big4 were also created. However, when Elf Wars began, Neo Arcadia's founding was pushed back until that calamity was avoided. That is how the Big4 could become Hunters despite their purpose of creation being different; the Elf Wars was such an unexpected event that their creation purpose was overruled before it had even begun.

In similar vein, if we are to think of the Big4's creation as even earlier, it should be remembered that the creating of Neo Arcadia was a long term project that began during the Irregular Wars. After all, Project Elpis, the project to end the war and the research carried out in the research facilities in the four forests surrounding Neo Arcadia lie at the root of the creation of Neo Arcadia. Likewise, we have to account for Neo Arcadian logos in the distinctly older facility of Vile's lab and even on Vile's very person.

1260
X / Re: What did Lumine mean?
« on: September 29, 2009, 03:16:37 AM »
You know, when Japanese translations from X5 started appearing in that wall of text. I was hoping you'd provide a translation for the Japanese equivalent of X5's "partner" line. Too bad....

1261
Zero / Re: Was Copy X really evil?
« on: September 29, 2009, 02:05:08 AM »
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What translation are you reading from, anyway? I know it isn't one of mine.

The one here:

http://geocities.com/protozantetsu/RTRZTelos1.txt

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X knows what Dark Elf is capable of and remembers the Elf Wars. His belief is that Weil will attempt to repeat the tragedy of the Elf Wars, he said as much already previously during the game, just didn't go into as much detail in front of Zero. X says it's probably already begun, denoting in fact that he does not know, but that time is of the essence, and by the time he gets back, he's right, it has started.

You know, you're probably better off retranslating all the lines >.>

1262
Zero / Re: Was Copy X really evil?
« on: September 29, 2009, 12:49:39 AM »
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Anyhow, Phantom specifically sites his intent to challenge Zero again. And he suspects that Fafnir and Levi's wounds are from being defeated Omega, not that Omega was defeated. Huge difference.

That's certainly a huge translation error... Duly noted.

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Will 2 should likely take place after the Copy X fight, and end at whatever time Fafnir and Leviathan are felt entering Cyberspace.

Agreed, I can't pinpoint it any later given the retranslation.

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Will 3 ends before X has to show up to protect the Resistance base from Dark Elf's control. It is definitely before Sub Arcadia and Phantom's reduel with Zero in Cyberspace.

This part I don't necessarily agree on. We don't know if X has to remain at the Resistance Base in order to cancel Vile's brainwashing. Remember, at some point X too has leave the base in order to head for the final battle.

I think we can agree that Will2 is immediately followed by Will3. If this is before Zero begins Sub Arcadia, how can X know and talk of Vile's brainwashing as happening before he even begins it?... This does not add up to me.

Furthermore, the flow toward Will4 has to be considered. Harpuia is currently in battle and at the end they all head for the final battle. Which places Will4 definitely after Sub Arcadia. In Will4, it's emphasized Fefnir and Leviathan are late even though they came as fast as they could.  Had they been awakened before the Sub Arcadia mission began, they certainly took their time. Though, they did excuse themselves....

Finally, Phantom considers Zero as capable of defeating Omega. Whereas before his battle with him, he was uncertain if Zero could even be considered a hero. All of this adds up to me thinking of the Will2>4 sequence of events as occurring when Zero is tackling the final stage.

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Phantom specifically sites his intent to challenge Zero again

Got a quote for this? I don't quite see it in the translation I have at hand.

As for my rebuttal on this point. Phantom is much like Fefnir, Leviathan and Harpuia; they all wish to fight Zero. That's simply the impression Zero left by defeating them again and again.






1263
Zero / Re: MegaMan Zero, then and now.
« on: September 28, 2009, 10:55:20 PM »
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None of my doubts over the initial sealing lasting a full 100 years in the final scheme of things have abated, where RZOCW mentioned only half a century of study, and X's hardened sadness portrayed as relating directly to his concurrent removed state. I don't intend to rehash since nothing really new has been learned about that since the last argument that I'm aware of, I'll just agree for now that the first sealing possibly could have lasted 100 years, and X certainly did face tough battles without Zero during this time.

If there was any more solid reason why I consider X's words to be about the initial sealing (or at least a combination of both the seals as MMZOCW's 50 year study seems to favor), it is that X mentions that "Zero left the world to him".

In the comparison between X6 and TELOS, X6 is about finding a cure and leaving the world to a superior hunter, whereas TELOS is much more about removing Zero from the world because he wants to trust the humans X trusts. We must remember that Z1 was written from X6. It therefore strikes me as odd that TELOS did not reproduce this part of the scenario in order to maintain the uncertain status quo between the seals and X's words.

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As of Z1, the Irregular Wars officially closed some 100 years before the setting of the game, according to Z1's Official Guide Book.

Are we certain that doesn't just mean, 100 years ago X5 and beyond happened when Sigma was defeated once and for all, thus ending the war? (Before the New Generation prolongs it indefinitely.)

Anyway, I think anything after Z1, the "concepts" from RTRZ perhaps excluded, can be seen as the beginning of the retcons. By Inti's own accord, at that time is when they started explaining what the "Dark Elf truly is".

After all, that Neo Arcadia was made 100 years ago in the Z1 setting directly contradicts the statement that Neo Arcadia was made by Ciel/Copy-X at the center of rebirth following the end of the long lasting Irregular Wars that were thought to be never ending. 

However, there are a few key holes to be found in that explanation... It is as you say.
The above is nothing more than the result of their month before release change to Copy-X resulting in "complicated explanations real fast". It's possible that their initial intend was the war having ended a century ago, with the last minute change establishing a different canon until the retcons patch up the matter back to their initial concept state.

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However, that closing period was not the end of all incidents, fighting, and hardships, which continued seemingly throughout to the more recent time, when Neo Arcadia was finally established and became the paradise of humans at the cost of repliroid rights, and the battle focus turns to Neo Arcadia government vs Resistance political terrorists.

I think in X's 100 years of fighting, we have to remember the key difference between Z1 and Z2+ canon. That being Mother Elf. In the initial setting for Mother Elf, the Virus has not been taken out by a miracle cure, rather, Irregulars were simply controlled by her. Therefore, it's much more likely for Irregulars to return in the initial setting than in the final. Back then, it just seemed more likely for X to have fought even after the official war had ended by Sigma's death. Nowadays, it's very unlikely for a battle that matches the scale of X's words to happen after the Elf Wars.

That is, if Mother Elf even existed in the original setting... The X5 to X6 transition makes it fairly questionable.. Though, from the moment they switched from Zero's X5 death to X6's seal and cure concept, I think some form of Mother Elf was thought up.

So, yeah, maybe this all does end up with a combination of th two seals. The first to account for "countless numbers" and "leaving the world to X". The second to account for "100 years."

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Sometimes I think it's easier to view this list as Neo Arcadian propaganda, or as an element of the mythology surrounding the founding of the nation. Legendary weapons of power, now wielded by the stalwarts of Neo Arcadia, it's a beautiful and epic idea. The nature of mythology is always embelished, legends get confused and rewritten in the passing of time, and the idea that the generals are using holy relics as weapons gives them an even higher aura of respect and invincibility. Truth can't in this respect stand up to what captures the popular imagination or serves the public good.

This is a very interesting idea. It certainly writes of all the inconsistencies of their presence easily enough. However, in a way we still have to deal with Neo Arcadia's odd time of creation, which lies at the root of the Big4 purpose Shining Arms paradox.

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On the other hand, there's the idea that they were not originally the Big 4's weapons, but were later imparted to them when battle was required. Whose weapons they were before would be a huge mystery, though perhaps the easiest explanation might be that they were all X's weapons.

I think we can rule out this theory. There's the explicit mention that their weapons were not made for combat. And we know Leviathan and Harpuia use their attacks, and thus their weapons to do their jobs to recover the troposhere and seas.

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I have the impression they were products of after the Elf Wars, after Neo Arcadia's official foundation, after Omega is bound and Vile is banished and Zero fast asleep.

This certainly avoids the matter of them accidentally running into Zero during the Elf Wars conflict, and thus more easily explains why someone like Phantom does not know of his copy body. Likewise, they too are very much in the dark on Omega and related matters.

However, when thinking about the story of Elf Wars, I feel that the Big4 have to be created before the Elf Wars so that these fan favorites can play their part. In order to keep with canon however, we need to maintain X as the lone hero, thus they weren't created until after the Irregular Wars, which makes the Shining Arms indeed a product of Neo Arcadia's lies. (Unless you count the Elf Wars as part of the Irregular Wars.)

To explain a creation of the Big4 after the Irregular Wars but before the Elf Wars, we need to remember that short period of peace between them in which Neo Arcadia is under construction but not officially founded. This time period in which Neo Arcadia is in "production" is required to explain such matters as the Neo Arcadian logos on Dr. Vile and his lab. Just as much as it's required to explain how Omega and Vile were "exiled from Neo Arcadia".

1264
Zero / Re: Was Copy X really evil?
« on: September 28, 2009, 09:48:26 PM »
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Their conversation happens around the beginning of the game, and at the end of it Fafnir and Levi's consciousness drifted into Cyberspace while receiving remedial care in Neo Arcadia, thanks to Weil's influence as explained in Will 1. Cyber X and Phantom sense their presence and go off to try and find them. They all return just before the Sub Arcadia mission. Phantom stays to test his blade against Zero one last time in Cyberspace.

I don't think so.

Will1 is completely separate of Cyber Elf X's appearance. It details the events from Omega's appearance to the first set of missions.

In Will2, Phantom and X have their talk. By this time Phantom has already learned everything. And they end the conversation on the note that Zero has broken Omega and therefore they must make haste.

Will3 is shortly after that talk, Phantom and X meet up with Fefnir and Leviathan. Fafnir and Leviathan are asked to join Zero in his fight against Weil.

Will4 too is shortly after that. Harpuia has infiltrated Dr. Weil's base but is fighting a losing battle until Fefnir and Leviathan assist. After they all met up, they come together to assist Zero in the final battle.

With Zero taking down Omega and the direct tie in of Will2 to Wil3/4, how could the conversation from Will2 be at the very beginning?... Not to mention, Will2->4 are automatically long after the intro because they have to happen after Will1 to account for Fefnir and Leviathan.

1265
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Internet. Serious Business. You rather thoroughly pointed out how wrong I was for relying on memory of events I haven't read through within the last several months. Are you through now? I admit I was wrong. You win. Feel better on the inside?
The first post after Zans' wasn't sarcasm, Flame. I'm the newb to Zans Vet, I'm not going to fight against this level of information when I'm so obviously wrong on the subject matter.

It simply irked me that you excused it with: "I don't have access to all sorts of obscure info" instead of just "I remembered wrong."

There's no shame in recalling something wrong. But if your issue is not having access to obscure info, then take the opportunity to learn about it so that we're all on the same level. There's not that much obscure info to deal with, so it can easily be supplied for all those that wish to see it. Doing just that, I tried informing you of the exact sources of the more obscure facts.

1266
Right...

Only having the English version is no excuse for misinterpreting what's said in the game.. Afterall, a whole damn lot of which I said comes from the English release.

The only exclusive info being:

-Personality Program = Cyber-Elf. (TELOS, interview on Omega)
-Cyber-Elf = Program Life Object (TELOS, written in English on Cyber-Elf genealogy)
-Elpis and Phantom Cyber-Elves (ZERO3, E-reader, is translated and obtainable by hacking.)
-Livemetal have abilities like Cyber-Elves (Japanese ZX guidebook)
-Retrospect1:Elf Wars (TELOS, drama track)
-Retrospect2:Dreams Never End (TELOS, drama track)

For the latter, the drama tracks from TELOS have nearly all been translated:
http://geocities.com/protozantetsu/RTRZTelos1.txt

Likewise, I can easily supply you with the other quotes so that there'll be no more "I only have the English release" excuse.

But to reduce my previous wall of text to its simplest form... Thanks to Hypershell:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-kmcXwsafw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-kmcXwsafw</a>
  4:10.

Prairie didn't say "consciousness" in that version, rather she said "tamashi", meaning soul/spirit. Which proves that we are indeed dealing with the originals.

1267
Even though all data ends up in Cyberspace, searching specific truths would be like finding a needle in a haystack. Or rather, trying to find sentient life on another planet somewhere in this infinite universe. Phantom was only capable of finding out that much information because it revolved around the matter at hand. He learned of the copy body, but even then, Phantom missed certain key elements such as Zero's original soul still being present.


1268
Zero / Re: Was Copy X really evil?
« on: September 27, 2009, 07:08:06 PM »
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Didn't Phantom run into Cyber-elf X as a ghost?

Only after Copy-X Mk2 was destroyed and Zero had already done battle with Phantom in Cyber Space. At the end of X and Phantom's conversation, Zero took down what seems like Omega form 2.

1269
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The real X became a Cyber elf and ran out of power after the events of Z3, returning to Cyberspace permanently.

You're making a vital misconception here. When X used too much energy,  he felt his own consciousness melt away into the electronic abyss, he was dying. Had X died there, he would not have been a Cyber-Elf, he would have just been inanimate data. However, X fought back. With his will, he desired to continue living with everyone else and thus barely avoided death.

X became much like Phantom, a ghost stuck in the interim between life and death. That Phantom witnessed Vile's Incident in this state and in Cyberspace learned all truths. That Phantom can also be found in ZERO3 as a mysterious Cyber-Elf in the Resistance Base that calls out to Zero to do battle. That is the limit of Phantom's capabilities in the real world. In a very similar manner Elpis can be found at the Resistance Base as well, seemingly contemplating his sins of the past. X exists in that exact same manner, a Cyber Elf that can no longer interact with people in the same way he did before. Likewise, even Harpuia, Leviathan, Fefnir and Zero exist in this exact same state. Not quite alive, not quite dead, witnessing the changing of the world until their powers are once again called upon to save the world.

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Ciel herself had nothing of the original duo to use when she made Biometal X and Biometal Z, as noted in game, so she had to use Biometal/Ragnarok Core W for the process. She may have programmed the two Biometals as close as possible to X and Zeros personalities, but they don't have the "heart" or "soul" of the originals as you put it.

Damn near close considering how much time she spent with Zero, but still not the same as the original.

I think you're misunderstanding what the First Commander was getting at.

Model V is that soul of that man contained in the fragments of Ragnarok. This statement on Model V defines the very concept of a Livemetal; a metal that has life.

The other Livemetal were created using the data she obtained on the legendary heroes. The "data of Vile" was switched with the "data of legendary heroes." The data of Vile inside of the Livemetal is his very soul.

As Prairie stated, Livemetal are fragments that contain the consciousness of legendary heroes. Their consciousness is never stated to be copied, it's instead explicitly said that it's the exact same consciousness of those that fought centuries ago.

A Repiroid's consciousness is nothing else than a Repliroid's personality program. When discussing Omega's personality program IntiCreated defined "personality program" as "Cyber-Elf". A Cyber-Elf has also been defined as a soul. Other definitions include "sentient program with created with pure energy in the image of elves" and  "program life object." Being programs, they can also be seen as "data obtained from..."

Elpis, X, Phantom have all been described in the above manner, and we have reason to suspect the same applies to many others. Six in particular of those exist in current time as Livemetal. If you don't quite get this just yet, those Livemetal are also said to have abilities like Cyber-Elves.

In other words, all of this applies to that which is inside of the Livemetal. Data, consciousness, personality program, Cyber-Elf, soul. All of those words are synonymous. The Legendary Heroes that fought "that man" centuries ago have all transcended death itself. Those legendary heroes did indeed witness the changing of the world till the day came that their powers were called upon.

Using Model V at the base, the First Commander succeeded in giving them a new material form as Livemetal. However, she did not understand all of Model V. The part she did not understand was the Livemetal's unique features; the transformation into a Rockman that is limited to a chosen one. Therefore there's the innate danger that the chosen one who uses the Livemetal can also use Model V.

I honestly don't see where you would get the idea of "copies" from. The entire ZERO-series rams into one's skull that the original is superior to a copy. The original body is stronger than the copy body and the original heart is stronger than the copy heart. In the clash of original body vs original heart, the heart came out on top. There's no way to copy X and Zero, you'd just end up with another Copy-X or Omega.

1270
Zero / Re: Was Copy X really evil?
« on: September 27, 2009, 01:15:54 AM »
That's not exactly true in this case. Ciel's resistance is barely even a bunch of freedom fighters. All they do is defend themselves and strengthen their position without aggravating Neo Arcadia. They're being painted as something they absolutely aren't. Now if we're talking about Elpis' resistance, that's a wholly different matter.

1271
Zero / Re: Was Copy X really evil?
« on: September 27, 2009, 01:10:54 AM »
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Copy X was trying to protect humanity at the expense of the Reploids.  If you were a citizen of Neo Arcadia, without the benefits of the audience's knowledge, would you consider him to be evil?
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The people loved Copy X as their ruler. In fact, one of the humans that was with Neige hated zero for killing him off. Ceil was just about the only human who saw wrong in what X was doing, and that only came from being his creator and have a love for both humans and reploids.

The only reason they do not see X as evil is because all the humans in Neo Arcadia had been living blissful lives of ignorance. When the Humans are put in the exact same position as the Repliroids, an oppressive dictatorship that destroys the lives of innocents using petty excuses, they both take the exact same actions. With Zero and the Resistance protecting and assisting the humans during Operation Ragnarok, their eyes are opened to that fact and they see the truth that the enemy they've been fighting isn't the great evil the media had advertised them as. Therefore the events that concluded Vile's incident paved the way to a new era in Human-Repliroid relations.

1272
EXE / Re: Getting Passed the Third Game
« on: September 26, 2009, 08:00:53 PM »
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One day we'll get an EXE game without annoying abbreviations on Chips, locations, items, enemies and powers

That's also a fault of Capcom of Japan. They've coded the game for a certain number of Japanese characters. But since Japanese combines vowel and consonant, they can write complicated things using a lot less symbols. They could have pulled off a name like YamatoMan easily, whilst we would only end up with YmtoMan abbreviated. Thus the change to JapanMan...

1273
Zero / Re: Was Copy X really evil?
« on: September 26, 2009, 06:26:46 PM »
Make of this what you will:


キミがボクをのこし、
この世界からすがたを消してから・・
ボクは100年近く、たったひとりで
とほうもない数のイレギュラーと
戦っていたんだよ・・
それは、
つらくかなしい戦いの日々だった・・
しかし、何よりも悲しかったのは
だんだん、何も感じなくなってくる
自分の心だったんだ・・
ゼロ、この世界の事は・・
しばらくキミにまかせたい
だから、このボクを・・
まだ・・もう少しの間
やすませてほしい・・
・・・・・・
ごめんね・・

After you disappeared and left this world to me... For nearly 100 years, I was alone, fighting an extraordinary number of Irregulars... There were heartbreakingly sad struggles day after day... But, above everything else, the saddest thing was that gradually my own heart came to feel nothing anymore...
Zero, the affairs of this world... I wish to entrust them to you for a short while. That way, I can... still... I want to rest for just a little longer...
......
I'm sorry...

1274
X / Re: X8. I didnt like it all that much.
« on: September 26, 2009, 05:42:04 PM »
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Well, in-game characters are often morons for reasons of plot development.

It's not the characters really, just the fans. In the plot Zero has clearly been labeled "missing in action". X himself desperately searched for his parts, but only gave up because Zero had vanished. Throughout X6 they still believe Zero might be alive.

1275
Zero / Re: Was Copy X really evil?
« on: September 26, 2009, 12:40:47 PM »
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They don't always have triangles.

Besides, I'm sure there are loads of humans with triangle tattoos on their foreheads. You just never happen to meet them.

Under Legions' law, every single Repliroid is marked with a triangle on their foreheads. Of course, at that time, humans have machine bodies indistinguishable from Repliroids.

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