RockmanPM Forums
Other Things => Gaming => Topic started by: Pyro on April 18, 2010, 07:27:24 PM
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http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Generation_III:_Criticized_too_often%3F
This article got me to thinking about the Gen III games and how much flak they get from parts of the fandom. Personally, I believe much of it is unwarranted because many of them hated RS for two main reasons. 1) The lack of connectivity with Gens I & II, which is understandable because of the hardware limitations and the revamping of the data structure. 2) The (relative) lack of the old Kanto/Johto Pokemon and the fact that many of the new Hoenn Pokemon were copies of the original Kanto. Yeah, I will be the first to admit that I have little love for Wurmple, Electrike, and so on but I consider Treecko/Torchic/Mudkip the best starters of the series and some like Swellow aren't half bad. The fact that you couldn't go to Kanto (until FrLg) and Johto either were disappointments in themselves but I always had a soft spot for Hoenn.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on Gen III? It's definitely the most underrated generation and as far as I'm concerned: RSE > RBY. Sorry, but the original Gen I graphics are nightmare fuel to me. :o
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I loved the gen 3 pokemon myself. I mean Torchic/Blaziken and Absol are some of my favorite pokemon.
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I think the main problem people had with Gen 3 was that, quite frankly, it was a step down from Gen 2. I mean, I'm just speaking for myself, but G/S/C was easily the best Pokemon game ever for me, which is why I'm loving HG/SS so very very much. I mean, I actually very much enjoyed Ruby, and a lot of the Pokemon in it. However, I didn't even come close to investing as much time in it like I did Silver.
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Actually to tell you the truth I think I like the Hoenn region the most, so I guess Sapphire is my favorite Pokemon game.
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Gen I Nightmare fuel? They are pocket monsters for crying out loud! 8D
Best part of Gen III at the final leg of it: Being able to get all THREE legendaries at once in one sitting, and the Battle Frontier. Ohh yes. I liked III actually.
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Something that Generation III had that was wonderful was the music.
Most of them were pretty cool, and was worked on by Junichi Masuda, Go Ichinose, Morichi Aoki, and Morikazu Aold.
They were very memorable too, specially some of the Route and Battle songs. ^^b
Kyorge and Groudon were in those games. Oh, and Gardevoir too.
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I think the main problem people had with Gen 3 was that, quite frankly, it was a step down from Gen 2. I mean, I'm just speaking for myself, but G/S/C was easily the best Pokemon game ever for me, which is why I'm loving HG/SS so very very much. I mean, I actually very much enjoyed Ruby, and a lot of the Pokemon in it. However, I didn't even come close to investing as much time in it like I did Silver.
Well, I can't argue that GSC was a tough act to follow but RS, at least to me, exceeded GSC in the sheer amount of environments to explore and how smoothly the game ran graphically. (DPPt and HGSS interestingly scaled back the framerate for reasons I'll never know.) Emerald on the other hand, was a more rewarding experience with Battle Frontier or the added mechanics to breeding. Heck, I think I spent more time playing Emerald than I did Silver but I think that was mostly in anticipation for DP.
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Something that Generation III had that was wonderful was the music.
Most of them were pretty cool, and was worked on by Junichi Masuda, Go Ichinose, Morichi Aoki, and Morikazu Aold.
They were very memorable too, specially some of the Route and Battle songs. ^^b
Kyorge and Groudon were in those games. Oh, and Gardevoir too.
Umm actually I'd have to give best music to GSC or the GBA remixes in Fire Red and Leaf Green.
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I didn't say best. I said wonderful. :3
(they have this beautiful thing to them, with the GBA soundfont being used)
<3 the music in Fire Red/Leaf Green~
I very much love the old tunes from Gen I (Kanto) and II (Johto). They are the most memorable songs ever. <3
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True but most of the music in Hoenn just didn't hit home with me for some reason.
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Kyorge and Groudon were in those games. Oh, and Gardevoir too.
That it did, and Groudon is one of my favorite Legendaries.
Well, I can't argue that GSC was a tough act to follow but RS, at least to me, exceeded GSC in the sheer amount of environments to explore and how smoothly the game ran graphically.
R/S did have more environments to explore, due to superior hardware, but Silver still let you go around more so you could get 16 Badges, which is what I really missed in Ruby. Not to mention fighting Red again.
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True but most of the music in Hoenn just didn't hit home with me for some reason.
It was nice music to have in the background, but not so much for me to appreciate the Gen III soundtrack on its own.
R/S did have more environments to explore, due to superior hardware, but Silver still let you go around more so you could get 16 Badges, which is what I really missed in Ruby. Not to mention fighting Red again.
Would've been interesting to have to run the gauntlet with Silver, Gold, Blue, and Red. That could've have been the crowning moment of awesome for Gen III.
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Gen 3? Really?
Contests and water abound?
Gen 3 was good for:
-Solidifying the combat formula
-Battle Frontier
-Menu/interface/feature fluidity
-Special effects in the course of the storyline
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You know, despite all the hate gen 3 gets for its pokemon designs I have to say that it also has some really awesome ones and some of my favorites ever. For example there's Absol, Blaziken, Glaile, Gardevoir, Salamance, all its legendaries, etc. Oh, and I don't care what anyone else says, Tropius is one of the most awesome pokemon ever.
It gets too much hate because it followed GSC, and although I can see why I still say a lot of the hate is not really that deserved. I don't know what it is about Hoenn that I like, but it's easily my favorite region for some reason and also the one I spent the most hours in.
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I like Generations III and IV best.
Why?
SEALEO.
AND.
SNOVER.
That is all.
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You know, despite all the hate gen 3 gets for its pokemon designs I have to say that it also has some really awesome ones and some of my favorites ever. For example there's Absol, Blaziken, Glaile, Gardevoir, Salamance, all its legendaries, etc. Oh, and I don't care what anyone else says, Tropius is one of the most awesome pokemon ever.
It gets too much hate because it followed GSC, and although I can see why I still say a lot of the hate is not really that deserved. I don't know what it is about Hoenn that I like, but it's easily my favorite region for some reason and also the one I spent the most hours in.
Gen III also gets a lot of flak because of the fact that Ruby and Sapphire were the test beds for the new engine. Like PB said, it felt like a step back (in some respects I agree with that) but overall I think it was a huge leap forward. Even moreso than GSC. Look how many of the Gen III mechanics transferred over to Gen IV, would HGSS have been half as awesome without RS? I think not.
On that note I think Gen V will probably have the toughest act to follow out of them all.
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Most of the Pokémon I didn't really care for, but the music and graphics. <3
Also, Gen3 had the Red and Green remakes, so [tornado fang] yeah! :v
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I love the Gen3 games... I mean, if it weren't for that, we wouldn't have SO I HERD YOU LIEK MUDKIPZ, amirite?
The legendaries are cool, Emerald was the first game with actual cutscenes, and you could catch Rayquaza and own the Elite 4 with him!
Lastly, ummm... I had something to say here, but I forgot what it was...
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I like Hoenn in itself, as I think it's a rather beautiful region and had a lot to explore. I only played Emerald, but it was pretty cool and I think the introduction of the Battle Frontier was an excellent move. That said, I think it lacked some of the charm that Gen 2 had; the music immediately comes to mind. While there were a few songs I liked (like the Abandoned Ship), a lot of them seemed a bit dull and didn't really stick with me. The Pokemon designs weren't bad either, although some of them are blatant copies of older ones (Beautifly, we're looking at you!).
I like the inclusion of Natures and EV's were as well, but I really don't think the system was too inviting as aside from the Macho Brace and the ever rare Pokerus, you really had no way of speeding the process up. Egg hatching didn't get sped up until Emerald (Magma Armor/Flame Body), so that was a much longer process as well, especially with certain Pokemon that take forever to hatch, like Eevee. Contests were pretty cool, as they actually gave you something else to do with your Pokemon, and you could actually use certain ones that fail at competitive battling. *coughLuvdisccough*
IMHO, Generation 4 felt like a breath of fresh air after R/S/E. There were many cool additions to the series that Gen 3 introduced, but it just felt like it was missing something. D/P/Pt's soundtrack stood out more, and I liked more of the Pokemon designs.
Also, I personally think that Secret Bases were a terrible.
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Well Generation III had some really nice looking Pokemons (expecially Legendaries), some stupid Pokemons and some pointless Pokemons (seriously Plusle, Minum? more like degenerated Pikachu's cousins to me), but overall I think it was solid. I liked additions like the contests and the graphics are really nice and colorful. I thought music was sort of meh, because I liked that more striking sound of GB/GBC games. Maybe the difficulty curve could be little better, since I could run through most of the game as I was, but before about last 2 Gyms and League I had to do some heavy grinding.
But still I liked it, not like the Generation IV where I had hard time just to pick starting Pokemon, because they all looked so ridiculous and my team was pretty much composed of the Gen I and II ones.
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I think that's where my main gripe with 3 lies because it's the start of the complete malarky of Gen 4.
In 1 and 2, there was a story, a bit dark and sinister at times. Evil organization in a Casino and puppeting a shell corporation, cutting off Slowpoke tails, graveyard, what have you. And when the story didn't explore these tangents to an otherwise perfect world, it would use the legendaries and focus on a creation story.
Then Gen 3 came along, and split Rocket into Team Magma and Aqua, which is just bloody lame. No way around it, that's just stupid. Furthermore, it told the creation story again, only now segmenting it even further among legendaries that are even MORE mediocre than regular Pokemon (save for Kyogre, whom is actually quite the statistical beast). On top of that, there were some fine designs (Tropius) mixed in with some god-awful scribbles.
And then, what I feared would happen, did. Gen 4 went down the DARKNESS AND EMOTIONS path that has been the demise of Megaman Battle Network, Megaman Starforce, and Kingdom Hearts. To add further injury to the creation story, now you've introduced beings that control TIME, SPACE/MATTER, what essentially is the GOD of Pokemon, and yet they can all have their asses handed to them. Worse, the designs throughout this game were infinitely worse. Whatever gameplay improvements there were are far overshadowed by the sheer ruination wrought by the story.
Here's hoping Gen 5 kinda gives the series a clean slate.
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Never played it, so I can't criticize or appreciate. Though it seemed too different for the nerds.
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And when the story didn't explore these tangents to an otherwise perfect world, it would use the legendaries and focus on a creation story.
What?
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What?
What what?
I didn't say world or universe creation, just creation or the start/origins of things in general. Perhaps origins story would be the better term.
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I've not played Gen III
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That's what I was gonna say! I also like Gen 3 because Team Aqua and Magma actually accomplish their goals, unlike Rocket, and see the folly of their actions...
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People always complain about Plusle and Miniun being Pikachu clones, but never about Makuhita - a Pikachu that took too much steroids or something.
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lol that's hilarious!
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Oh speaking of Gen III...
(http://lol.rockmanpm.com/1271632628840.png) (http://lol.rockmanpm.com/1271632628840.png)
0v0
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Man Wallace looks a little scary in that picture, but then again I can't imagine Juan.
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Is that an old promo poster? :D
GB Gen3... lol
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Wow, how interesting.
Late in production I assume, though thats neat to know.
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Oh speaking of Gen III...
(http://lol.rockmanpm.com/1271632628840.png) (http://lol.rockmanpm.com/1271632628840.png)
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lol, I expected this to be one of the last GB/GBC games before it even came out, it looks well put together. XD
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What what?
I didn't say world or universe creation, just creation or the start/origins of things in general. Perhaps origins story would be the better term.
Well, that makes more sense >_>
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GenIII... Where should I start...
Personally, out of all the Pokemon games I've played, none can compare to the playtime on my Emerald.
Emerald's also the only one with the most complete PokeDex, plus all extra features such as Master Level at all contests, thus pictures in the Museum, as well as all the Frontier badges.
Also, Gardevoir.
TRAP GARDEVOIR EVER
Ok, but seriously, story-wise, as some as mentioned, had the villian team finally succeeding in what they set out to do (more so in Emerald), as well as the introduction of legendaries that had a direct impact in shaping the Pokemon world.
Personally, I'm biased to the 3rd Gen, due to the most number of favourite Pokemon in there. 8D
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I do like Generation 3, but then again I'm not really picky when it comes to Pokemon games. I guess I'm pretty easy to please with them. XD
Seriously though; Flygon. It's one of my favorite Pokemon ever. Next to Charmander and Moltres. owo
And I have a soft spot for Groudon and Rayqauza too, and the gym leaders I enjoyed too.
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legendaries that are even MORE mediocre than regular Pokemon (save for Kyogre, whom is actually quite the statistical beast).
Uh. You somehow missed Groudon/Rayquaza/Lati@s/Deoxys? Because, y'know, they're kind of incredibly good. To the point of being banned. For being so good.
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I disliked Generation III. That is all.
In before quoting of my post and rage
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Gen III is such a mixed bag of awesome and wtf level decisions. I'll break it down in a bit though, so if anyone's interested in my humble opinion, watch this post.
I'll say this much though, the Pokemon Special adaptation of this gen is hilarious and actually a fun little read. XD
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I like this Gen for those 2 route themes , when I'm sad, I listen them :3
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crAYEScFaEc&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaNP4mWg7Vo&feature=related[/youtube]
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I'll say this much though, the Pokemon Special adaptation of this gen is hilarious and actually a fun little read. XD
The ending with Ruby getting amnesia specifically of his love confession to Saphire made me rage though -___-
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So wait, if one game deals with Team Magma and the other deals with Team Aqua, does Emerald deal with both teams?
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Yeah, IIRC both awaken their respective legendaries at then end and you have to go awaken Rayquaza to calm them both or something like that.
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And Groudon and Kyogre face off in Sootopolis... CUTSCENE... go to Rayquaza's oddly not-destroyed tower, talk to him with Wallace's help, go back to Sootopolis... CUTSCENE! It's pretty cool.
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Well, Gen 3 has probably one of the worst match-ups of legendaries. I mean, with generations 1 and 2, there was a definite balance to them. With Gen 3, there is no balance. Kyogre can steamroll Groudon no sweat. Still, Gen 3 does have my all-time favorite pokemon in it.
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If you think about what they represent, Groudon being the land and Kyogre the sea, it makes sense. After all, there is much more water than there is land, so it goes to figure that the Pokemon responsible for the oceans would steamroll the one responsible for the land. And then bring in Rayquaza, representing the endless skies, and he's the only one who can tame the other two. Plus, he's pretty awesome too!
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Though, I would expect a little balance, like the beast of the land probably being part grass so that it at least has a fair chance.
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But you have to factor in that Ground is literally the Earth type; grass and rock and stuff are merely extensions of that. As such, Ground is the most appropriate type for Groudon, seeing as there is ground everywhere on land, whereas grass and rocks aren't found everywhere on land. Kyogre has it easy being the representation of water; he only needs Water type.
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Well, Groudon does have a chance, but odds are still in Kyogre's favor. If Kyogre switches in after Groudon, then Groudon can use Thunder (if it survives), and if Groudon enters after Kyogre he can use Solarbeam. Or he could just use Thunderpunch too >.>
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Hmm... Well, those are some good points... Let's change the subject back to appreciating Gen 3 and not debating about it's legendaries, shall we?
As previously mentioned, Gen 3 has my all time favorite pokemon in it. Absol.
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Absol looks like the Mesmerize enemy from FF8... lol
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While I have to admit that R/S/E was completely hilarious in terms of story, simply because of the legendaries and teams, I dunno, it still felt sub par.
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Yeah, IIRC both awaken their respective legendaries at then end and you have to go awaken Rayquaza to calm them both or something like that.
You recalled correctly, and it's just as Mirby mentioned.
And Groudon and Kyogre face off in Sootopolis... CUTSCENE... go to Rayquaza's oddly not-destroyed tower, talk to him with Wallace's help, go back to Sootopolis... CUTSCENE! It's pretty cool.
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Now if only I could remember where I placed my copy of Emerald.... oh woe...
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The ending with Ruby getting amnesia specifically of his love confession to Saphire made me rage though -___-
Are you [tornado fang]ing with me? *Hasn't read that far yet*
So wait, if one game deals with Team Magma and the other deals with Team Aqua, does Emerald deal with both teams?
Yeah, IIRC both awaken their respective legendaries at then end and you have to go awaken Rayquaza to calm them both or something like that.
Holy [parasitic bomb], Emerald sounds awesome. Do you catch either of the two though?
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You catch both Kyogre and Groudon after the Elite 4, both at lvl70.
Rayquaza's the same way as in RS.
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Are you [tornado fang]ing with me? *Hasn't read that far yet*
Oh, uh, oops? Go read it.
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You catch both Kyogre and Groudon after the Elite 4, both at lvl70.
Rayquaza's the same way as in RS.
Emerald superior, R/S inferior. XD
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Emerald is the best of Ruby and Sapphire. [eyebrow]
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Unless we're talking about that midget, in that case Ruby and Saphire>>>>>>Emerald XD
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That midget has gadgets all over his body!
And MAGICAL CALMING SOIL
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Gadgets and soil have NOTHING on FABULOUSNESS and wildness 8D
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... I'll give you Sapphire.
She's such a... Wild thing. 8D
Ruby...
Still hate him for making Feebas cry.
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Oh, if we're talking about the manga now, FAAABULOUS Ruby was just as hilarious and unexpected to me as wild thing Sapphire. (My mind is still blown over the fact that they are 11 & 10 respectively. They acted like 14 - 15 year olds. XD)
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Tis the power of what the anime should have been. XD
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making Feebas cry.
A Feebas crying? This I gotta see. 8D
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Jelly, get Emerald now. Not only do you get to catch both Groudon and Kyogre, you get the National Pokedex much easier, you get to visit the Battle Frontier (where you can catch a Sudowoodo and a Smeargle) and visit a new part of the Safari Zone (where you can catch other Gen2 Pokemon such as Spinarak), and if you catch 200 Pokemon in the National Pokedex you get to choose a Gen2 starter! Also, it uses the nice-looking FR/LG font, not the ugly R/S one.
I seriously need to find my copy of this...
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and a Smeargle
More like BILLIONS OF THEM.
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Yeah, they swarm the Artisan Cave. I like the old lady who references the Sudowoodo. "THERE'S AN ODD TREE THERE!" "THERE WAS AN ODD TREE THERE!" Or something.
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The ending with Ruby getting amnesia specifically of his love confession to Saphire made me rage though -___-
Speaking of which where are you guys reading the manga. Or did you just pick it up when it was in stores?
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I've downloaded it.
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Speaking of which where are you guys reading the manga.
It's called the internet, remember the internet has everything =)
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It's best to read it online, but it's being released slowly over here. I think Volume 6 or 7 was just released?
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Re-released at that.
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It's called the internet, remember the internet has everything =)
I know that I'm reading it on One Manga but they're only at the beginning of Johto in Violet city, I think.
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Generation III was alright, I suppose. Though it kinda seemed that if you didn't pick up Colosseum or XD you were stuck with the rather limited PokeDex Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald gave you. Contests were an interesting diversion too, though they never actually grew on me.
Maybe the fact that I couldn't manhandle the game with a Hitmonlee until I happened upon a Hitmontop to breed is why I'm stuck between loving/hating it. Though I do have a fondness for Hariyama now...
So, all in all, Hariyama is awesome, Hoenn felt awkward for me, and Kanto of 2004/5/6 was boss.
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I know that I'm reading it on One Manga but they're only at the beginning of Johto in Violet city, I think.
Try here. (http://www.mangatoshokan.com/series/Pokemon-Adventure)
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Thanks! I was too lazy to look for this! You're awesome, Jelly!
I just realized... this site has PB and Jelly... *facepalm*
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Hmm the translation seems to be a bit off since their calling Goldenrod city Cherrygrove. But at least it's better than the one on manga fox where stuff was out of order.
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Well, I know I can always trust the local manga store to have the latest volumes. :3
Speaking of which, I need to continue reading the Emerald arc. >_>;
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It's good. I enjoyed it.
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http://pokejungle.net/2011/10/12/ruby-and-sapphire-remakes-hinted-by-masuda/
Juinchi Masudo recently opened a Twitter[→] to increase interaction with his fans. Recently some sites, including our Japanese affiliate Shell Spider, have caught some interest wind about the Ruby and Sapphire being very “worthy” to get an upgrade. NICE. Hopefully his words aren’t just talk and there’s someone already on his team designing the next games: MagmaRuby and AquaSapphire. (...)
(...) ps- Want to see this on the 3DS or the regular DS(i)? Sound off in the comments.
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I'm not surprised. I, for one, will be more than happy to explore Hoenn once again with the Gen5 engine. And to capture Rayquaza and own the Elite Four with him.
Also, I hope they take a HG/SS-type route and include the stuff from the companion game in both (such as the Suicune story with Eusine and other Crystal additions being kept).
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Gen5 games need berries so much right now, so that's all I can really say.
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I say keep Emerald's story, of Rayquaza quelling Groudon and Kyogre, and getting to fight both Team Magma and Team Aqua.
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Well HG/SS kept Crystal's tale, with Suicune and Eusine and stuff... I'm sure that means that they'll do the same for these. Just with Emerald instead of Crystal. :3
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The basics of Gen 3 are pretty awesome. Great music, plus it gave us Double Battles, which I love. I just have not-so-good memories of it 'cuz it cut off the oldies (NO DRAGONITE?!!!) and introduced the current EV system, which pretty much made the idea of Zapdos continuing to use Drill Peck laughable. I would probably enjoy remakes more than I did the originals.
Gen5 games need berries so much right now, so that's all I can really say.
Get equipped with Global Link.