RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => X => Topic started by: Thanatos-Zero on July 12, 2009, 08:46:18 AM
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What happened to Dr. Wily in Rockman X series?
Are Dr. Wily and Dr. Weil the same person? Were they ever supposed to be?
KI: A large amount of time has passed between the classic series and Mega Man X. Dr. Wily had died in the interim but was brought back by the virus. Dr. Wily and Weil are not the same person. It is ironic though, because Dr. Wily created Zero, and Dr. Weil used Zero, but ultimately it was a copy of Zero's original body with a different mind that defeated him.
Okay we know now that Wily was brought back by his virus. However the question is "How exactly was Wily brought back by the virus?". It bothered me all that time lately.
Could it be, that Wily and the Sigma Virus acted in a similiar fashion of Omega and the Dark Elv causes to open gates between the Cyber Space and the Material Plane of existence?
What do you think? Let´s discuss and summerize the facts.^^
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It isn't exactly the Virus. Since the Virus tends to cause irregularity. Wily continues to exist as a Data form. A program of sorts similar to Light. Just bound within Reploid bodies not Capsules. Looking at Serges and isoc, they were not Maverick as in Irregular. They were fully conscious of what they were doing. And are capable of erasure. Case of Isoc. A program to force empty Reploid bodies into a puppeteer type play.
At least, that is one way to look at it...
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Could it be, that Wily and the Sigma Virus acted in a similiar fashion of Omega and the Dark Elv causes to open gates between the Cyber Space and the Material Plane of existence?
Gates to Cyberspace can only exist by Dark Elf - Omega resonance. The Virus can cause a similar reality altering phenomenon, but only as the ZERO Virus; that is, the substantiation of cyberspace programs in the real world. Sigma Virus has only shown to able to substantiate itself by drawing on external power or concentrating itself.
As everything hints at Wily existing inside of Repliroid bodies that share his likeness; why would it make use of such complicated reality altering?
It isn't exactly the Virus.
When Inafune says Virus, he means Virus. Wily who died is using the Virus he himself created to bring him back to life. Similar to how Sigma does it, but without the part where he's become the Virus itself, he's able to cheat death and have his soul occupy a new body.
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I've always had this thought in my head that Wily has his own dedicated internet structure where his digitised consciousness roams around until he's downloaded into a new body.
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[spoiler]As everything hints at Wily existing inside of Repliroid bodies that share his likeness; why would it make use of such complicated reality altering?[/spoiler]
I think, that he used the virus to escape Cyberspace. I do not know, if he was a cyberelf-like being in the beginning or the virus gave him a body to interact with the material plane.
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When did this interview happen? I had no idea Wily was brought back by the virus.
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When did this interview happen? I had no idea Wily was brought back by the virus.
Capcom Unity 10 questions with Inafune, last year.
How exactly was Wily brought back by the virus?
That's just what Inafune said.
What remains are theories and attempts to rationalize it.
The Virus can cause a similar reality altering phenomenon, but only as the ZERO Virus; that is, the substantiation of cyberspace programs in the real world.
Don't quote me on that - I'm posting this for the sake of marshmallow man sighting this and then seeing whether this is fact or not - but I thought I read somewhere the Nightmare sort of did the same thing. It would be possible since it's derived from the Sigma Virus and the Earth was still scorched with it.
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As everything hints at Wily existing inside of Repliroid bodies that share his likeness; why would it make use of such complicated reality altering?
I think, that he used the virus to escape Cyberspace. I do not know, if he was a cyberelf-like being in the beginning or the virus gave him a body to interact with the material plane.
If he "escaped Cyberspace", he'd be a substantiated program like the Light hologram in X5, he wouldn't be occupying robotic bodies.
Wily died, but using the virus he became somewhat of a ghost; his soul could exist without a body and is now occupying the bodies of Repliroids made in his likeness.
Don't quote me on that - I'm posting this for the sake of marshmallow man sighting this and then seeing whether this is fact or not - but I thought I read somewhere the Nightmare sort of did the same thing. It would be possible since it's derived from the Sigma Virus and the Earth was still scorched with it.
The Nightmare Virus is so powerful it gives itself a solid body. Sigma Virus does this only in high concentration or by using external power. This process is 'substantiation' of the Virus.
Substantiation of other cyberspace programs (making them escape cyberspace) is also possible. But only the ZERO Virus has caused that phenomenon. Though the Gospel Server's radiation did the same, that's a different series. The Nightmare does do something similar, but it's not the same as what the ZERO virus does; I would liken it a lot more to how a Cyber Elf seems to change the environment.
The Sigma Virus being the basis for all these viruses would have similar properties.. it's just not powerful enough..
When did this interview happen? I had no idea Wily was brought back by the virus.
Remember when Inafune debunked the cataclysm? Same interview.
http://www.capcom-unity.com/s-kill/blog/2008/09/05/inafunesan_answers_your_questions
1) Did Zero really "kill" the family between the events of the Classic Mega Man and X series?
KI: No, Zero did not kill them. According to the way I created him, Zero is not such a person--it is not in his profile.
4) What was the inspiration for Sigma?
KI: Some people think he might have been inspired by Sagat from Street Fighter because of his look, but that's not actually the case. Sigma and Zero basically represent the idea that nothing is absolute. Sigma was a powerful leader of the Maverick Hunters but after Zero passed the virus to him, his allegiance changed. Circumstances can change anything, and nothing is absolute.
6) What happened to Dr. Wily in Rockman X series? Are Dr. Wily and Dr. Weil the same person? Were they ever supposed to be?
KI: A large amount of time has passed between the classic series and Mega Man X. Dr. Wily had died in the interim but was brought back by the virus. Dr. Wily and Weil are not the same person. It is ironic though, because Dr. Wily created Zero, and Dr. Weil used Zero, but ultimately it was a copy of Zero's original body with a different mind that defeated him.
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Gross speculation here, but I'm seriously wondering if Wily's virus revival had anything to do with the W appearing on his head in the X4 flashback. Zero's seen headaches (X4 dreams), restraints (X6, Isoc), and awakening (X5, drop the colony), and none have repeated that effect. Zero could be freaking out over another consciousness showing up in his head, and/or the virus may have jumped ship from him because Wily wanted out.
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As in, he downloaded his consciousness into Zero, and then used the Virus as his escape ticket? I like that Idea...
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More like the virus is what activated, or "revived" if you will, his consciousness in the first place. What I'm suggesting is that the W was that moment, when Wily returned, not that he was part of Zero during the whole slumber/robot bloodbath shpiel. He'd have emerged within Zero due to him being the primary host of the virus, until Sigma KOed him anyway. From there he'd have made the jump to Sigma, then to an independent body/computer/whatever.
Again, gross speculation. But you have to wonder...
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HMMMMMM
*wonders*
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When Inafune says Virus, he means Virus. Wily who died is using the Virus he himself created to bring him back to life. Similar to how Sigma does it, but without the part where he's become the Virus itself, he's able to cheat death and have his soul occupy a new body.
it is not by his usage of 'Virus'. It is how he was translated to have used 'Virus'. Brought back 'BY' the Virus, not brought back 'AS' the Virus. This is why I speculate that a separate sentient program exists together with the Virus. Since it wasn't intended to Spread from Zero. That was a byproduct occurrence. Plus, with encounters of Virus ridden Reploid enemies, they are more or less going mad... Not changing into Wily. If the Virus was Wily in and of itself, it would make sense that it would behave as in spreading the Virus to every reploid possible and becoming Wily. The Sentient Program spreading with the Virus. Agent Smith in Matrix is a good example. Since Reploids tend to go mad, the Virus is in them, not said sentient program. Plus with Serges and Isoc, they were not mad. Thus they either were able to negate the Virus or didn't have the Virus.
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separate sentient program
The word is "soul".
If the Virus was Wily in and of itself, it would make sense that it would behave as in spreading the Virus to every reploid possible and becoming Wily.
Sigma is the Virus, he isn't making other Repliroids turn into him using it. The Agent Smith effect doesn't apply, except for some degree with the New Generation.
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The word is "soul".
Wily would have been able to replicate his mentality and consciousness, but his actual biological creature Soul? Unlikely. Different outcomes between Data Soul and Organic Born Soul. Granted, Cyber Elfs... But they are born from Human technology that flow within the Akashic Records... That differences would separate how they flow, not contradict that they flow...
Sigma is the Virus, he isn't making other Repliroids turn into him using it. The Agent Smith effect doesn't apply, except for some degree with the New Generation.
Sigma becomes the Virus, and even then reploids go mad. Same thing applies. The Virus cannot contain a consciousness and spread that consciousness. It cause eradicate behavior. I.E. Maverick... This is why I think the Virus works with the Program (Soul) instead of being the Virus. So Agent Smith example would still apply if the Virus contained and spread a Consciousness... At least this side of the New Gens... Which would be a different topic...
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Wily would have been able to replicate his mentality and consciousness, but his actual biological creature Soul? Different outcomes between Data Soul and Organic Born Soul.
A soul is a soul.
Akashic Records
The term is Cyberspace. The records of Akasha are just a general description of the concept and role that the ZERO3 introduced Cyberspace fulfills.
And no, that's not how a Cyber Elf is created... It's a Repliroid Soul given a body of energy in the form of an elf.
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Wily would have been able to replicate his mentality and consciousness, but his actual biological creature Soul?
Sorry to break your dreams. Humans are just biological forms that have their own consciousness and personalities which only exists through brain. So, if a human dies, that human is erased from universe "completely". I am not trying to say that to religious people. I'm just pointing out scientific facts on the idea of soul.
Going back to game side of the view:
Reploid Consciousness = Memories and Personality of the Original (If I'm not wrong)
So, basicly even if Wily was brought back by the virus. It wasnt the real Wily we know from Original series. He was a copy with exactyle same personality and memories. So, he will just deny the fact that he is a copy. Since he believes that he is 100% original Wily.
However. If the Wily turned in to the virus himself. (without dying during the process) Then we can say that he pretty much changes body and continues living forever. (ınless he ran out of energy).
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Everyone knows that Wily used a temporal anomaly known as a plothole.
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Sorry to break your dreams. Humans are just biological forms that have their own consciousness and personalities which only exists through brain. So, if a human dies, that human is erased from universe "completely". I am not trying to say that to religious people. I'm just pointing out scientific facts on the idea of soul.
Sorry, but the scientific fact is that we don't know anything at all. You're just guessing Like all of us. :o
So, basicly even if Wily was brought back by the virus. It wasnt the real Wily we know from Original series. He was a copy with exactyle same personality and memories. So, he will just deny the fact that he is a copy. Since he believes that he is 100% original Wily.
This is Rockman. Ghosts are canon fact.
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The term is Cyberspace. The records of Akasha are just a general description of the concept and role that the ZERO3 introduced Cyberspace fulfills.
And no, that's not how a Cyber Elf is created... It's a Repliroid Soul given a body of energy in the form of an elf.
I meant as in Human flow within the Akashic, to which Human technology also would flows. To which would apply to the Cyber Elf. Of course they are born from Reploid's and granted Elf imaged energy bodies... Just they are bound to an after-life of flowing without a body in the CyberSpace...
Sorry to break your dreams. Humans are just biological forms that have their own consciousness and personalities which only exists through brain. So, if a human dies, that human is erased from universe "completely".
Such has reoccurred within the Series. So fact outside of fiction only seemingly applies within fact. Fiction rewrites such facts. Cyber Elfs, ZX Humans to Cyber Elfs. Light's Capsules... Soul or not, digital rendition of the consciousness still pertains to story plot.
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In Z3 the existence of cyberspace puts forth the notion that all things in the world are in some manner represented as data. If Cyberspace includes all natural aspects of the world, why should Cyberspace not include natural souls?
The "soul vs. digital copy" debate has already gone on for ages with regard to the Light capsules. And the reality is it's just pointless nitpicking. No reason has been put forth to believe that the same character in-the-flesh would behave differently, so the debate is moot. Any storywriter could write either scenario, but thus far they have never been established as independent of the human characters whose likeness they share. For the purpose of the story, they are the same.
Sorry to break your dreams. Humans are just biological forms that have their own consciousness and personalities which only exists through brain. So, if a human dies, that human is erased from universe "completely". I am not trying to say that to religious people. I'm just pointing out scientific facts on the idea of soul.
Besides the fact that you're guessing, out-of-body experiences during operations that induce "clinical death" (drain your body of blood for about half an hour) contradict that assumption. The brain does not function during such procedures and thus cannot hallucinate. In this instance it appears that consciousness extends beyond a single organ, whether you want to take that physically or spiritually is irrelevant. The fact is science does not fully understand human consciousness.
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Christ, you guys. Occam's Razor when you post.
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Sort of relevant.
(http://fc07.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/084/d/d/The_power_of_M_E_compells_thee_by_yinlunghuang.jpg)
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The "soul vs. digital copy" debate has already gone on for ages with regard to the Light capsules. And the reality is it's just pointless nitpicking. No reason has been put forth to believe that the same character in-the-flesh would behave differently, so the debate is moot. Any storywriter could write either scenario, but thus far they have never been established as independent of the human characters whose likeness they share. For the purpose of the story, they are the same.
Besides the fact that you're guessing, out-of-body experiences during operations that induce "clinical death" (drain your body of blood for about half an hour) contradict that assumption. The brain does not function during such procedures and thus cannot hallucinate. In this instance it appears that consciousness extends beyond a single organ, whether you want to take that physically or spiritually is irrelevant. The fact is science does not fully understand human consciousness.
Yes. Pretty much to everything here. Within the X series, the reploid's behavior is completely different based on whether or not it has its "soul", another "soul" (Wily's or Sigma's), or no "soul" (Maverick Hunter: X). It is consistently shown that reploids have an extra something inside them that makes them who they are. This also separates them from mechaniloids, who do not have souls.
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The brain does not function during such procedures and thus cannot hallucinate.
But couldn't it end up with a false memory of that time?
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Remembering the doctors entering one of the body's main blood vessels through her groin, a detail of the surgery which she was previously unaware of? No.
Old Reader's Digest story, unfortunately I cannot track it down at the moment. You could take it as a soul or you could take it as consciousness (or memory, at least) being spread throughout the entire body. Doesn't matter much, it simply demonstrates how naive it is to think that the human body, much less mind, is entirely understood. Science finds new curve-balls all the time (if it didn't, the world would be pretty boring, wouldn't you say?).
Also,I am not trying to say that to religious people.
I realize one cannot discuss religion on the internet, but for strictly informational purposes: You do not need to be non-religious, or even non-Christian, to believe that. Some groups do not consider a soul to be separate from a life; they merely believe in eventual resurrection. You do not need to be an atheist to believe that you lose all awareness when your body shuts down.
Sort of relevant.
(http://fc07.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/084/d/d/The_power_of_M_E_compells_thee_by_yinlunghuang.jpg)
Laughed my ass off. 8)
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Old Reader's Digest story,
Was it in one of the glurge sections?
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No.
Tracked down a similar story (http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html), don't know if it's the same person or not. Includes the old dead-relatives visions, as well, but a false memory of that wouldn't be any far stretch. Surgical details are the key point of the discussion, as they prove some level of awareness during a "brain dead" condition.
Mind you, I am not suggesting this as evidence of the afterlife as many others jump to. That one doesn't know of a physiological reason for something doesn't mean that reason doesn't exist. It simply means we have more to learn, and I am only presenting this to prove the point that the functions of human consciousness are not the open book that Speed stated they are.
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Sort of relevant.
Yinlunghuang herself asked me to ask how you still remember this old image. >.>
I meant as in Human flow within the Akashic, to which Human technology also would flows.
Cyberspace. The realm where all data ends up in the end.
mechaniloids, who do not have souls.
Says who?
For the purpose of the story, they are the same.
Besides, like I said before, Rockman has pretty much included ghosts as canon fact. Though it's generally the DASH/EXE/SSR team that does so; DASH is on the same timeline, therefore it applies retroactively.
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Says who?
Has it ever been observed or stated that mechaniloids, in any capacity, have equivalent souls to reploids or humans?
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Ghosts, Cyberspace, Digital Souls, Magical Talking Fish? o-O
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Has it ever been observed or stated that mechaniloids, in any capacity, have equivalent souls to reploids or humans?
No. But has the opposite? As of late, mechaniroids are becoming more and more like animals, gaining the ability to reproduce and transfer genetic data. Some have even evolved to gain humanlike intelligence. Furthermore, what about the robots that preceded X? X has worrying, which makes his soul nearly human. But the preceding ones are like X, except without worrying; Are we to suppose that without that single circuit they do not have a soul? Or are we to suppose all life forms, artificial or otherwise have a soul, even if it is far removed from a human's? It's an iffy and blurry boundary at best.
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As of late, mechaniroids are becoming more and more like animals, gaining the ability to reproduce and transfer genetic data
wat
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Start completing your ZX/ZXA disk database. ZXA examples: Nature Mine, Poyoko, Cellworm.
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I don't even know which those are. They're different from regular mini-factory mechawhatsits then?
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Cyberspace. The realm where all data ends up in the end.
Ends up in the 'END'. Different 'Means' exists for different energies. Unlike a singular cable, more like fiber optic: many cables 'as' one. Or in other words, all energy exhausted is equally transformed into another form.
Has it ever been observed or stated that mechaniloids, in any capacity, have equivalent souls to reploids or humans?
Mechaniloids behave on an 'instinctual' type base. That stated, it can further be correlated to animal instinct behavior. Notice Day of Sigma, the initial Mechaniloid... It wasn't just a dumb piece of hardware. it was observant of it's surroundings. Able to take a cover (hostage), target what it thought to be enemies, and still fight to get itself freed from restraints. They may not be as refined as what we can see within biological creatures, and mimicry within humanoid reploids... But they still are capable of such. Initial Mechaniloids may prove better example for the 'lack' of, latter it isn't such.
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Ends up in the 'END'. Different 'Means' exists for different energies. Unlike a singular cable, more like fiber optic: many cables 'as' one. Or in other words, all energy exhausted is equally transformed into another form.
Not quite; cyberspace encompasses ALL substance world phenomenon in the form of a program.
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No. But has the opposite? As of late, mechaniroids are becoming more and more like animals, gaining the ability to reproduce and transfer genetic data. Some have even evolved to gain humanlike intelligence. Furthermore, what about the robots that preceded X? X has worrying, which makes his soul nearly human. But the preceding ones are like X, except without worrying; Are we to suppose that without that single circuit they do not have a soul? Or are we to suppose all life forms, artificial or otherwise have a soul, even if it is far removed from a human's? It's an iffy and blurry boundary at best.
I'm making no assumptions on whether a soul must be humanlike for it to qualify as a soul. I also wouldn't equate X's worrying (or that "circuit") as a prerequisite for a soul. In my observation of the Mega Man franchise, a "soul" is that which gives a creature (whether human, robot, or something alien) the ability to think, feel, grow, and make decisions independent of prior circumstances or programming. Robot Masters have blurred those lines, but Mechaniloids have not, to my knowledge.
I like your point about mechaniloids behaving like animals. This suggests their behavior is instinctual, which serves to highlight the distinctiveness of the reploids, the Robot Masters, and even Rock himself.
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Robot Masters have blurred those lines, but Mechaniloids have not, to my knowledge.
But there have been mechaniloids that acted very much like Repliroids. Take those pickaxe guys for example. Then there's the Skull Anchor Mechaniloid from ZXA, its intelligence rivals that of people. We also have Poyoko which reproduced but has devolved in the process. Then we have weird cases like the Mysterys of which it isn't even clear whether or not it's even a Mechaniloid. What's stopping all these weird mechaniloids from evolving and gaining humanlike sentience?
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Not quite; cyberspace encompasses ALL substance world phenomenon in the form of a program.
I wasn't denying that. I was discussing the 'measure' of the program. Since it would flow, not all would flow at the same speeds, same trajectory, same direction with or without flow distortions. All I'm saying is that not all programs would behave in the same method. Since in the material world, not everything is 'equal', thus would apply to the world behind the world.
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But there have been mechaniloids that acted very much like Repliroids. Take those pickaxe guys for example. Then there's the Skull Anchor Mechaniloid from ZXA, its intelligence rivals that of people. We also have Poyoko which reproduced but has devolved in the process. Then we have weird cases like the Mysterys of which it isn't even clear whether or not it's even a Mechaniloid. What's stopping all these weird mechaniloids from evolving and gaining humanlike sentience?
Do these Mechaniloids think, feel, and make decisions outside their programming? If you really want to argue that mechaniloids have souls (as the Mega Man franchise presents it), then you're going to have to define what this "soul" is. Is it just acting like a human? Is it having some measure of intelligence? Is it the ability to reproduce that defines if you have a soul?
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Self-Awareness is a definitive term for such. Recognition of one's self as a whole, and understanding what you feel reacts to the form you possess. Mechaniloids are Self-Aware, and are used (or told what to do) for major work. Like a horse to pull some cargo, a bull for heavy pulling, etc.
Plus, want a good example? ZX. Slither protect mechaniloids... React to humans in passive manor, while reacting to recognizable machines (BioMetal MegaMerged) as aggressive. Knowing when to strike and when not to. Of course is based om prior programming. But even to organic beings, prior programming, or acquired knowledge is the foundation of choice.
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Self-Awareness is a definitive term for such. Recognition of one's self as a whole, and understanding what you feel reacts to the form you possess. Mechaniloids are Self-Aware, and are used (or told what to do) for major work. Like a horse to pull some cargo, a bull for heavy pulling, etc.
Plus, want a good example? ZX. Slither protect mechaniloids... React to humans in passive manor, while reacting to recognizable machines (BioMetal MegaMerged) as aggressive. Knowing when to strike and when not to. Of course is based om prior programming. But even to organic beings, prior programming, or acquired knowledge is the foundation of choice.
Um, so you would suggest that horses and bulls are self-aware?
The question remains, could these mechaniloids choose to disregard their programming or orders with no external source acting on them? According to the Series, Reploids, X, Zero, and some of the Robot Masters seem to be able to do this. Mechaniloids, on the other hand, have never demonstrated this ability.
Look how far off topic we are. :O
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So they all have souls or some form of awareness? I feel a little guilty for having to pwn every last one of them but still why X is considered special among the robots? I am trying to avoid any religious implications but it seems that this topic tends a little on the metaphysical side.
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They do have a form of awareness. Met's are another example. They take their time to uncover their shield to either act or take cover again. They are opportunist, which furthers this notion.
X is considered special because he has a recognizable ability to choose and think as a human does. Something a human can recognize is something giving off such human-like ability. Choose to act, choose to not act. Feel guilt for lack of...
Is recognizable to show compassion as well. Many factors...
Um, so you would suggest that horses and bulls are self-aware?
The question remains, could these mechaniloids choose to disregard their programming or orders with no external source acting on them? According to the Series, Reploids, X, Zero, and some of the Robot Masters seem to be able to do this. Mechaniloids, on the other hand, have never demonstrated this ability.
And you wouldn't? One must ignore the ignorance of a human as anything but a bias. Humans recognize human communication and behavior, and from that have dictated the lack of recognizable communication/emotion and behavior from anything but human. So that arrogance aside, you cannot make a dictation towards other forms of life. Organic or machine programmed.
They cannot choose to disregard their programming. like a sheltered child. They don't know any better than what they do most commonly. Anything can be swayed into doing something. Sigma proved this using his Virus to control that huge mechaniloid in Day of Sigma. But look at it's behavior. It isn't acting irrationally, it is looking for targets, taking opportune strikes (taking that hostage), knowing it is unable to move and to free itself. These being ignored?
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Plus Mets have been shown to have intelligence even far before the X series. Super Adventure Rockman shows that with the Met family. It may not be absolute or on the same level as robots such as Rock or robot masters, but they do have intelligence. by the X series, they can only have gotten smarter.
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I never thought I could emotionally "damage" a robot like Met or hurt its "self esteem" as I assumed a computer has no feelings or emotions but I guess that a pretty much this. -AC or more like this o~O
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Light is a computer.
in the most technical and blunt aspect, the whole X series cast, (barring Cain) are computers.
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I never thought I could emotionally "damage" a robot like Met or hurt its "self esteem" as I assumed a computer has no feelings or emotions but I guess that a pretty much this.
Who said anything about emotional damage? Animals within Nature express their emotions on a different level than humans can recognize. So such is rhetorical and rather bias. Self Esteem is a human trait. Such which isn't recognizable within Nature as is. Plus a Computer, one which is an extension to a human as a tool, is aware. Just simply doesn't know anything else. To reiterate a previous comment: much like a sheltered child. Unaware of any other way of existence.
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They do have a form of awareness. Met's are another example. They take their time to uncover their shield to either act or take cover again. They are opportunist, which furthers this notion.
Mets aren't always Mechaniloid. Some are Repliroid.
using his Virus to control that huge mechaniloid in Day of Sigma
Did he? It could be, but is not confirmed.
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He controlled it from the panel.
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And you wouldn't? One must ignore the ignorance of a human as anything but a bias. Humans recognize human communication and behavior, and from that have dictated the lack of recognizable communication/emotion and behavior from anything but human. So that arrogance aside, you cannot make a dictation towards other forms of life. Organic or machine programmed.
They cannot choose to disregard their programming. like a sheltered child. They don't know any better than what they do most commonly. Anything can be swayed into doing something. Sigma proved this using his Virus to control that huge mechaniloid in Day of Sigma. But look at it's behavior. It isn't acting irrationally, it is looking for targets, taking opportune strikes (taking that hostage), knowing it is unable to move and to free itself. These being ignored?
Don't be too quick to label things as biased, ignorant, or arrogant. Inferring blanket labels ascribes a certain arrogance to your viewpoint. :)
In the case of horses, bulls, and mechaniloids... they have a level of awareness in that they act from instinct, prior experience/programming, and exhibit consistent social behavior. But mechaniloids have not been observed to act completely contrary to instinct/programming/social behavior with no outside external forces acting on them. This apparently is what separates mechaniloids from X (Zero, and reploids) and Dr. Light basically said as much. In the parameters of the Mega Man franchise, would you want to argue with the guy who basically wrote the book on android consciousness?
What you, I, and Zan are slipping on here in this discussion is a lack of definition of terms. For instance, how does one define "Soul"? How does one define "Self-Awareness"? How does one define "Intelligence"? Are these all synonyms? I for one, don't think so.
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Don't be too quick to label things as biased, ignorant, or arrogant. Inferring blanket labels ascribes a certain arrogance to your viewpoint.
It was arrogance to label anything but human as 'lower life forms'. And if my statement is arrogant, in that I'm stating that one cannot understand an animal because one is comparing to a human, then so be it. We cannot understand anything but a human stand point. And even then, it isn't 100%. Hence it is a bias standpoint. And notice, I didn't stat any such term in opposition towards anyone in this conversation.
In the case of horses, bulls, and mechaniloids... they have a level of awareness in that they act from instinct, prior experience/programming, and exhibit consistent social behavior. But mechaniloids have not been observed to act completely contrary to instinct/programming/social behavior with no outside external forces acting on them. This apparently is what separates mechaniloids from X (Zero, and reploids) and Dr. Light basically said as much.
Machaniloids have not been 'shown' or given the 'on stage' chance to be allowed to show such. All we see, is a Mechaniloid 'under enemy influence' (from hunter stand point). Not a mechaniloid in it's prime function. So we cannot assume either way. Now, if it was within more of an OVA, other than 1 occurrence within Day of Sigma, then we can speculate more accurately. Since then we would have more insight. But benefit of the doubt must be issued to speculate such.
What you, I, and Zan are slipping on here in this discussion is a lack of definition of terms. For instance, how does one define "Soul"? How does one define "Self-Awareness"? How does one define "Intelligence"? Are these all synonyms? I for one, don't think so.
How does one assume humans have a 'Soul'? How does one assume humans don't have a 'Soul'. How do we assume any other form of life on this planet has either/or? Life is a natural bias standpoint. Since in life, we know nothing of death. And such, when death occurs, we cannot return and share the experience. When alive, everything knows life. When dead, everything experiences such and continues... Soul, Self-Awareness, intelligence... All one sided to what Life can teach, and for humans to at least interpret...
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How does one assume humans have a 'Soul'? How does one assume humans don't have a 'Soul'. How do we assume any other form of life on this planet has either/or? Life is a natural bias standpoint. Since in life, we know nothing of death. And such, when death occurs, we cannot return and share the experience. When alive, everything knows life. When dead, everything experiences such and continues... Soul, Self-Awareness, intelligence... All one sided to what Life can teach, and for humans to at least interpret...
Okay, I was discussing the Mega Man Franchise, not our reality and our philosophy. In the Mega Man Franchise, it is stated that Souls/cyberelves/insert-your-synonym-here exist. We have not defined how they exist within the franchise as it relates to Wily, humans, reploids, and mechaniloids. We need that definition.
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ALthough I have to wonder how robots can have instinct in the first place...
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Sounds about equivalent to the reactions they've got programmed in rather than learnt throughout their life.
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Okay, I was discussing the Mega Man Franchise, not our reality and our philosophy. In the Mega Man Franchise, it is stated that Souls/cyberelves/insert-your-synonym-here exist. We have not defined how they exist within the franchise as it relates to Wily, humans, reploids, and mechaniloids. We need that definition.
Fiction is inspired by non-fiction. They go hand in hand. That is why MegaMan based things are not completely Deus Ex Machina. Albeit fiction, still has an explanation. And after experiencing Zero 3's CyberSpace, and ZX's humans turning into Cyber-Elf's, the best explanation is the Akashik Records. That the universe is govern by a program. And everything else is too a form of program. Without a body, the program simply is pulled into the Mass Program. Better example is the Matrix. Every little thing in the Matrix is a program, and those programs are part of a universal program. When one program looses it's body of interaction, it is simply pulled by the Mass Program into it's circulation.
If we follow that, and suspect that a human is capable of using a machine to interpret human psyche and duplicate such results, therefore resulting in digital self, technically Wily lives on. Just not necessarily human Wily, but a digital duplicate capable of every same thing as the human. The human dies, human soul is recirculated, yet the digital self remains bound to technology. Awaiting it's realization. Light would have been the vary same, just decided to imprint said duplicate with his image: the Hologram. A Ghost in the Shell sort to speak.
Other than that, I will agree that we could use the info to which governs said within the MegaMan franchise. At least then it is fact and not speculation. However we will most likely never receive such and may have to fill in the blanks ourselves... And put forums to use in discovering agreeable middle ground.
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Akashik Records.
Cyberspace. Use the word.
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Purposely used the term in allowance for it to be researched and not leading to misleading results. Guaranteed, you will not find the same definitions or explanations of either. Thus the actual term instead of CyberSpace. But if that is what you wish, then CyberSpace. The world behind the world.
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Wily must've put some chip in his brain that would remove his mind at the moment of death and integrate it into the virus
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Technology will advance enough to allow us to download our memories and thoughts inside a digital drive. Wily could just downloades himself into a viral-like system. Therefore the term "brought back by the virus".
Also, this could apply to Dr. Light as well (a variation of the technology used for X's brain, instead of a standard system, like the one Wily used for the virus).
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Technology will advance enough to allow us to download our memories and thoughts inside a digital drive.
We're some time off from being able to interface with the outside world from such stored memories and thoughts, though.
But in Megaman Light has already done it, so there it's no surprise.
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