Hey there SEGA fans!
Today is the day you’ve been waiting for. In the months since we announced a special little game code named Project Needlemouse, you guys have bombarded us with great interest and questions about what the game might be, who that figure in the silhouette really is, and when we were going to start releasing more info about the game.
Well, read closely and rejoice – because today, we’re finally ready to start talking to you guys more about what Project Needlemouse is all about!
This week, we’re going to reveal a full list of playable characters in Project Needlemouse - if you guys can live up to our oldschool Sonic challenge, that is! Here’s how it works:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2695/4265851561_8344ec5043_o.jpg)
1: The Details: Each name on the picture above is a potential playable character in Project Needlemouse. However, not all of them are going to make the cut – and each day this week until Friday, we’re going to update this picture with a rejected stamp over those who will not actually be showing up!
2: The Challenge: Answer our trivia questions about oldschool Sonic games! (Genesis era) We’ll post trivia questions each day on a specific part of our SEGA/Sonic sites, and you all have to work together to figure out the right answers and post them there! Each day we’ll challenge you guys to get a certain number of people to post the correct answers – and if you meet that challenge, we’ll remove more names from the picture in a new blog the following day!
*About Bonus Points: If you go above and beyond the expected results, the community will earn a bonus point for that day. Earn at least three bonus points and we’ll give you all something special this Friday!
3: The Schedule:
* Monday: SEGA Blogs
* Tuesday: SEGA/Sonic Facebook
* Wednesday: Official Sonic Forum
* Thursday: SEGA Twitter
Remember: It’s all about momentum. This statement holds as true with this challenge as it did in the Sonic games that many of us grew up playing.
Using new fresh from the oven modern-day characters as a part of this? that's definately something to laugh at (Shade and Chip are TOO new) when the game releases. Sure, Amy being there makes sense, she was introduced into the CD era. Now.. about those overshadowed characters (I'm talking Tiara, Bomb, Bean, Bark, etc).. :\
"Mr. Needlemous" is another name for Sonic himself.
Chip is impossible, given what happened in Unleashed. And "Mr. Needlemous" is another name for Sonic himself.
8D 8D
They'll cross everyone off except Big.I enjoyed Big's segments of SA.
And it will be the most amazing game ever made.
Charmy.
taken off thet list[chameleon sting]er!
Where's the updated image? I don't see an updated image, where's my updated image? SHOW IT TO ME.
Tikal~ owo
It's just going to be Sonic.lol Sonic the Comic
I'd laugh if this was an origins story game, the "Kintobor" comic was made canon, and Mr. Needlemouse was Sonic before the accident and basically the game's Hard Mode.
Vixy you're a Tikal fan, too? I liked her character a lot! I do hope she makes a reappearance in the series again since Chaos did once without her!
Amy hitting the hammer to the ground and do a high spin jump~ ^oo^ I like Sonic Adventure for that.HELL YEAH! I LOVE DOING THAT WHEN I PLAY AS HER! : D
Bad news then, Tikal and Vector got taken off for day 3
Amy hitting the hammer to the ground and do a high spin jump~ ^oo^ I like Sonic Adventure for that.
I would LMAO if Sonic got rejected. Maybe if they make a crappy game Sonic will say he had nothing to do with it for once... Maybe Shadow 2?It'll be Knuckles' Chaotix all over again!
needs more playable Amy and Big.AGREE! We need more Amy. (I could live without Big tho)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4276408713_b15c435ef1_o.jpg)
Predictable countdown was predictable.
http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/01/15/project-needlemouse-character-countdown-finale-and-concept-art/#more-3846
Comment # 6Jesus Christ, what a [Top Spin].
What… I was really expecting Shadow to be playable with Sonic, i’m slightly disappointed.
Posted by Dustin on January 15th, 2010 at 11:31 am
Jesus Christ, what a [Top Spin].keep in mind Tails and Knuckles are not even on the list. So they cant be counted out.
Also, I don't like this too much. I mean, would it kill them if they gave as Tails and Knuckles? OR AT LEAST KNUCKLES! I WANT MY RED [shadow runner]' BRUTHA!
Oh well, maybe at least the game will be good.
Pfft, YEAH RIGHT! In the last game, you could play as only Sonic too... and it was [parasitic bomb].
Still... I WANT TO BELIEVE!
keep in mind Tails and Knuckles are not even on the list. So they cant be counted out.What I played of it over at my cousin's place, suggested otherwise. Sure, the day time stages were honey & cream... but when it came to night time stages.
Who knows.
Also, *smacks* Unleashed was great. whachoo takin' bout boi.
What I played of it over at my cousin's place, suggested otherwise. Sure, the day time stages were honey & cream... but when it came to night time stages.What system was it for.
Goddamn.
Also, he already sold the game, so I can't really play it more to see if I'm wrong.
But I'm probably RIGHT.
What system was it for.I know what you're getting at, Flame boy.
Also, *smacks* Unleashed was great. whachoo takin' bout boi.
Then your brain is broken.
*borrows Hypershell's fish*
Here, let me fix that for you...
Go play the PS2/Wii Version of the nighttime levels, then get back to me.
I always say this, just imagine your playing as knuckles.
The 360 Night time stages weren't bad either, just too repetitive. At least the combo list was big, better than DMC4's :\ The day time stages though are a helluva lot better to play on the 360/PS3 versions though, my brother has the PS2 version and it was pretty slow by comparison.The only one qualm I had with the nighttime stages is the battle music CONSTANTLY interrupting to the point where they shouldnt have even bothered making nighttime tracks and just used the battle music for all the stages.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b43/trakkerw/6dsnhsj87375nd8wm47d.jpg)
THe cheapest enemies in Sonic 2, by far, are the seahorses in Oil Ocean. They ALWAYS hit me. They rank very very high on the cuntometer.
God damn caterkillers.
Ive gotten so many unfair break aparts. I hit the area im supposed to hit, and then the pieces break apart anyway.
This multiplied by 5 in the Sonic 1 Megamix Hack (Which is amazing, and hard.). Damn Caterkillers are EVERYWHERE, its hard to hit them with a homing attack because it tends to hit the spot where you get hit and not the head. really annoying.
To me, I appreciated that. The designers wanted to make sure that, even if you were playing a character who had the Homing attack, you were not meant to rely on it whole sale. Beyond Caterkillers, there were plenty of other opportunities that you could have gotten your ass slammed and jammed by misusing a homing attack, like with all of the extra Eggman Monitors that were strewn about the place. XD
Truly a shame that a fan game hack does more to "get" what a modern day Sonic game could stand to be, while Sega's own continues to flounder about.
I'm still dead set on drawing Big the Cat raping the SEGA logo if it comes to pass as a bad game.*Jumps on Rad's Boat*,Agreed.
I didn't say he was a bad character, I know next to nothing about him.Bondage Anyone?.....Nah just kiddin.
But it's the perfect character to draw raping a logo.
With leather.
and chains.
The Needlemouse Challenge: Part II
So, the folks here at SEGA have only one word to comment on the fake concept art above:
Awesome.
In fact, we’d like to see even more of it. So here’s the challenge: we want you guys to create your own concept art based on your favorite Badniks from the original Sonic games. It can be any Badnik from Sonic 1, 2, 3, Sonic & Knuckles, or any other Sonic games of that era. Pick your favorite(s), draw them up concept art style, and send it our way! (Japanese not required!)
The Challenge: Submit over 100 (total) pieces of Concept Art of your favorite oldschool Badniks to SEGA! Show us which enemies you want to see in Project Needlemouse!
The Reward: If the challenge is met, next week we’ll reveal:
* Project Needlemouse’s Actual Name
* Concept Art from the first Zone
* A very cool extra bonus…
What to use: Alright! Now that we have your attention, on to the specifics. You can create the concept art in Photoshop, on paper, in Microsoft Paint, via crayon, or using pretty much any worthwhile medium that gets the point across. (Create it from something notably awesome – like, say, Oreos – and you will get a bonus spotlight!) The limit is one piece of concept art per person.
Submitting your concept art: Next, send it our way! You’ve got a few options here, so just pick the one that’s easiest for you.
1. Post it here in a comment! Host it on an external site like Photobucket.com, and then comment here on the Blog with a link to your art.
2. E-mail us! If you’re a little shy about showing off your work to the world, you can also send it to us via e-mail: communityteam@sega.com !
3. PM us! If you’ve got a Forum or SEGA Pass account, you can send a private message to RubyEclipse on the SEGA forums with your art. If you already have a forum account, you’re all set!
If you guys can send in a cumulative total of over 100 pieces of concept art by Monday morning at 10:00 AM, you’re in for a very special treat in the days following. This will be our final community challenge for Project Needlemouse - and it will also be one of the last times we refer to the game by its code name. If you thought the first concept art was cool, then trust us – things are about to get a whole lot more interesting. We will also be updating throughout the week and weekend to let you know how close you are!
(Create it from something notably awesome – like, say, Oreos – and you will get a bonus spotlight!)
Unless they happen to be the mint ones, I fuckin' love those ones.
Ah I see, and what's the Act I boss like?He's a real frigging tough cookie, no pun intended.
He's a real frigging tough cookie, no pun intended.BS. You meant to say that and you know it. XD
haha, I thought that sounded great. XD But how do you reflect the sun back at him?
With a mirror of course.
Obviously, you couldn't play the whole level on one table.No... Part of it would take place on a WACKY WORKBENCH!
What is Project Needlemouse? Well, you’ll soon know. We will be unveiling Project Needlemouse at midnight (US Pacific time) TONIGHT on GameSpot!
That’s all we can say for now, but you’ll know more in just a few hours! So put on a pot of coffee, and stay up late for all the Needlemouse-y goodness.
Project Needlemouse to finally be revealed tonight at 12 AM Pacific Time.Welcome... TO JAPAN--erk... CALIFORNIA TIME.
http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/02/03...eal/#more-4091
Welcome... TO JAPAN--erk... CALIFORNIA TIME.
I miss Japan Time. XD
Welcome... TO JAPAN--erk... CALIFORNIA TIME.
I'll be front and center with my popcorn to watch the fanbase be let down yet again because their expectations are too high.
So, Sonic The Hedgehog 4: Episode 1. (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/sonicthehedgehog4episode1/news.html?sid=6249445&tag=topslot;thumb;1&mode=previews) The Phantom Menace, perhaps?Does that mean we have to wait until Episode 4 before it starts getting good?
Sonic's running animation is a bit off.... But hell yeah. FinallyYeah, I noticed that too. Chances are that's only for slower speeds mind you, but yeah, it did seem off.
It's about friggin' time.
Sonic's running animation is a bit off....Maybe it looks that way because they showed the old Sonics running first, where the legs basically just spin around each other, rather than having, like, knees and stuff.
Depends; did you like Sonic Rush, Rush Adventure and Sonic Unleashed Day Stages, but now without a boost button and more emphasis on playing similarly to the Genesis titles?
Now if they could call Eggman Robotnik again. ;3ASDMNSFANAFN AFNSAQFNASNAFNSAjfajsfanfsajda
Prove my doubts wrong, ST. I double 'hog dare you.Fix'd.
Fix'd.
Alright, so here's my write up:This man, [tornado fang]ing. Seeing as we were both on skype with Retro members when the news broke.. Oh my god, I died. I laughing and I died inside. These insatiable fucks will never be happy with what they get and for some reason think they're minority should be the most represented. These are the same people who will ban you from mentioning the Sonic Cycle because it's TRUE. Also the same people who will call a game terrible based on a short hype video and then fork out 50 bucks for it when it comes out.
-Sonic fans are pissed, calling this Rush 3.
-Hate the homing attack.
-Hate the visual style.
-Episodic Content is rage worthy.
-http://www.sega.com/sonic4/assets/promo1.png - Sega [tornado fang]'d up on hiding the last platform: it's iPhone. Tentative release date is also July 2010.
Sonic fans will never be pleased.
First things first, let's get the addictive momentum gameplay. Ya can't tell me speeding through Emerald Hill, Chemical Plant, Angel Island, Hydrocity, or hell, even Emerald Coast like a madman on crack isn't the exact reason you play Sonic games. Right?"
Right?
I'll not mention the "Sonic Cycle", but we all know it. And yeah, Aldo was pretty much right-on.THIIIIIS. Especially after what its continuing from.
I'll take level design as it comes, though. What I'm waiting for are three features:
-Tails
-Knuckles
-Super Sonic in stage replays
Any game which lacks these has no business being called STH4.
You forgot Sonic with Tails following. At least Sonic Advance 1 got that right.I did not detail but figured it would be assumed that I meant the inclusion of previous Genesis mechanics involving said characters. IE: Tails being playable with flight, and not a boss cheer-leader (*shudder*). That includes Tails following, co-op, piggy-backing Sonic in flight, the whole sheebang.
I am the only person to like every last sonic the hedgehog game.I like all sonic games. but I can see why people complain about some. Some complaints are valid, others just nitpicking. Aside from the ridiculous loading times, I cant see whats wrong with 06. It feels more like the Adventure games than Heroes or Unleashed, for sure. And Unleashed, while a silly gimmick, was fun. Heroes, I cant see a problem with. Each team has varied gameplay. especially Chaotix.
I like all sonic games. but I can see why people complain about some. Some complaints are valid, others just nitpicking. Aside from the ridiculous loading times, I cant see whats wrong with 06. It feels more like the Adventure games than Heroes or Unleashed, for sure. And Unleashed, while a silly gimmick, was fun. Heroes, I cant see a problem with. Each team has varied gameplay. especially Chaotix."Like" is something of a relative term when you consider how many different aspects there are to like and dislike about any one game. But yeah, most Sonic games that I've played have SOME redeeming points. Unleashed excepted, the music alone is usually a safe bet on consoles.
And 200606 was great. I especially like it for Shadow, since I feel he plays like he should have played in ShTHH.
What I've heard of Unleashed's soundtrack, I can't stand.
What I've heard of Unleashed's soundtrack, I can't stand.... just die.
*UPPERCUT!!*There's obsession and then there's being tone deaf.
In all the time we've been on the boards you never took notice of my Crush40 obsession? They supply my frikkin' ringtone. :P
What I've heard of Unleashed's soundtrack, I can't stand.
... just die.You'd think you would learn, Neko:
I'm glad personal and self-stated limited (I said "what I've heard", as in there's more to hear) opinion means so much to you all.
Hyper, you need to listen to more Unleashed.
[spoiler][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43eWWG7S7ZI[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iyhy1AijuY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFf6bsGGEh0[/youtube]
[/spoiler]
Yes, Mr. PLAY GALAXY ALREADY, it is.
PB, You WILL play Xtreme 2 if me and Hyper have to shove it down your sunglasses.
werehog battle themeyou die too.
Gee, sure is low-tier songs here. No Jungle Joyride Night? Empire City Night as well as Skyscraper Scamper Night?
What do you expect? Few people have ears for good stuff anymore. *Goes back to listen to the best song in Unleashed - Skyscraper Scamper Day*That is a pretty good one.
Our Legendary hero returns! With the Death Egg finally destroyed, and Angel Island back in the sky, Sonic decides it's time to take a break and heads off to explore a new territory on his own. However unbeknownst to Sonic, Eggman has also survived their last encounter, and has begun taking measures to rid himself of our hero. Armed with his signature Speed, super Spin Dash - and powerful Homing Attack, Sonic is ready for an all-new adventure!If thi is to be taken literally, it might be JUST Sonic.
Well they were in 2,(tails) 3 and SnK. if Tails isnt at least in there, theres no excuse for it really...
What? No love for Holoska Day-Cool Edge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa11tMeCqNE&feature=related)?I'll say this: You did a hell of a better job picking samples than Flame did (sorry, pal, but Day Boss Battle wasn't doing you any favors).
LoL, my point still stands! 8)I'd argue with that if I knew what your point was. No refusal to play a game was made during this discussion (although STM recommended others do so, but that was it).
Oh look, the Japanese site kept the Teaser Music in. ^^ (http://sonic.sega.jp/SonicTheHedgehog4/)Far better than the US site, which reuses Sonic Heroes sounds. 8U
Am I the only one who prefers the Genesis games instead of this Next Gen crap?What, I can't like both? I like pretty much all Sonic games.
What, I can't like both? I like pretty much all Sonic games.
I Also like all of the Sonic games. Even 06 and black knight. The load times In 06 suck, and that alone keeps it from being one of my favorites. I am really looking forward to S4. I can't wait.....
Am I the only one who prefers the Genesis games instead of this Next Gen crap?
....I liked ShTHH. It isnt the best out there, (far from) and has quite a fair amount of glitches, and the gun gimmick wasnt all that great, but it was pretty fun, and I enjoyed it. Final story's stage was pretty fun. Nothing like Chaos Controling through an entire stage. Story was intriguing too. (emo Shadow aside) and I really did enjoy the soundtrack. (although that's something that Sega almost always gets right.)
Don't tell me you like Shadow the Hedgehog too.
I mean, I played it for like three hours, and I already had friggin' enough.
SEGA comments on Sonic's running animations in StH4 trailer, says more to come (http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=113445)Good to know.
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 to feature remade Eggman boss robots? (http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=113448)
http://www.sonicretro.org/2010/02/sonic-4-intro-story/Explains the old badniks being used. I still wanna see a new Sonic robot though. Or the one from SnK. (Hey, I can dream, no?)
Enjoy the plot setup for Sonic 4.
Link fixed due to TSSZ News being a bunch of whiny bitches that we scooped them.
but I always hated Sega after playing Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) because it was a terribly made Sonic game[parasitic bomb] was great.
and I knew that Shadow the Hedgehog was gonna be bad news right from the get-go (good thing I bought Sonic Adventure 2: Battle).ShTHH should have been named Sonic Adventure 2.5, as thats what it really was- But it was fun too.
I don't think Alex Kidd is popular enough nowadays to justify a reboot.It Would be Nice though for a New Alex Kidd (Bonk's getting one!,So Why not Sega?)
It Would be Nice though for a New Alex Kidd (Bonk's getting one!,So Why not Sega?)
Bonk? Since when? Anyway, I can't wait for the confirmed release date of this game (comes out in the summer if I recall, boy.. It's Sonic 3 all over again).Well i was Excited they are Bringing him Back like Others.
Honestly,If Sega Does Great With this game....Expect a Alexx Kidd Re-boothahahahahahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAha..ha..hahaha.
hahahahahahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAha..ha..hahaha.
yes, because every sega reboot in the past years weren't something completely terrible.
yes, because every sega reboot in the past years weren't something completely terrible.Yeah.
I think some people would like a new Vectorman. But... was that made by Sega? Never played it.
-post-
I'd still like a proper sequel to Virtual On.
At this point in time, what do they really have left to [twin slasher]? *Prays for Jet Set Radio to never get a revival unless actual proven talent does so*
Then, do you happen to have SRW Alpha 3? Virtual On's in it. :Ptoo bad they're shafted to squad filler.
Treasure
Sometimes I think it's be cool if Sega did remakes of their old sonic games, with HD and [parasitic bomb]. Would be cool.
Eye candy never hurts, "good as is" or not. Street fighter was good as is and SF2 HD is sweet.
Plus like I said, if they do Sonic 4 right, it coult show that they can still make a decent sonic game.
If they re visit the classics, there is the possibility they might gleam anything from it, and then use that insight on future games. Although, with Sonic Unleashed, who knows, the next "New" game might be a second step in the right direction. Maybe even give us that Sonic Adventure 3 Unleashed originally started out as.
Unleashed didn't even beat Heroes.
Plus it was the last time we got to hear the REAL voice actors of the Sonic series. I miss Shadow's original VA.
Does anyone know who I am talking about? : D
How about we just say anyone who's ever played Eggman seems to do a good job at it?
Forgive my keen sense of the obvious, but if Mario was in it, it wouldn't be multi-platform.
This is of course ignoring the whole clash of play styles.Hey, the clash of play styles is what makes character selection so interesting. The only problem is when certain parts of the game are much too hard for one of the characters, which is why some people didn't like MegaMan & Bass.
Folks need to get a life and be happy we are even getting a Sonic 4.
Hey, the clash of play styles is what makes character selection so interesting. The only problem is when certain parts of the game are much too hard for one of the characters, which is why some people didn't like MegaMan & Bass.I'm referring to when the difference is so drastic as to warrant a different level design. A "true" Sonic level design, assuming of course Sega will actually do a decent job of putting their money where their mouth is, includes a lot of stunts that I don't see as fitting for Mario. Granted, with Amy doing loop-de-loops, Sega is pretty loose on that point, but still.
Releasing Sonic into a 3D environment is the equivalent of releasing fish into the dead sea. IT DOESNT WORK.
Quote from: Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw of Zero PunctuationReleasing Sonic into a 3D environment is the equivalent of releasing fish into the dead sea. IT DOESNT WORK.
Precisely, exploration and freedom of movement.
If Sonic has to be in a 3D setting, eliminate the notion of "speed", and instead focus on fluid platforming with shortest routes set in short but numerous stages with different atmosphere every time, even in the same zone.
NOTE: This is not what Shadow the Hedgehog was. The stages were only a little shorter than others, and the focus was combat (worse, combined with pseudo-speed) not platforming.
See, even this I can't get behind. There are elements in tons of other games that tell me that momentum (and speed based rewards) can be applied to a 3D Sonic game without horribly breaking the gameplay. Jet Set Radio comes to mind almost instantaneously for a few of the race segments. Funnily enough though, there are two great examples of how Sonic can be done in 3D, and both are racing games, namely F-Zero GX & Trackmania (especially Trackmania).
I'll get more into it in a second though.
The Adventure games were just fine. Sure, they were glitchy, and the camera was a pain compared to other 3D games. But you know what? Those things just managed to get worse over time, that's the problem. They were moving in the wrong direction, it's not because of the dimension of the game. If they could get back to at least the polish of the Adventure games (better than that would be optimal, but let's be realistic here), and made sane choices (ie. no [tornado fang]ing werehog), then Sonic in 3D would be just fine. Now get your head out of your asses and think a little bit more.
See, even this I can't get behind. There are elements in tons of other games that tell me that momentum (and speed based rewards) can be applied to a 3D Sonic game without horribly breaking the gameplay. Jet Set Radio comes to mind almost instantaneously for a few of the race segments. Funnily enough though, there are two great examples of how Sonic can be done in 3D, and both are racing games, namely F-Zero GX & Trackmania (especially Trackmania).
I'll get more into it in a second though.
2D Mario is pretty basic platforming and friendly to a wide variety of characters, but 3D Mario is about sandbox fetch-questing at a lax pace while you drool over the environment.But I think Cool, Cool Mountain would make a great Sonic level!
Adventure and Adventure 2 were very focused in one direction (with a few walls), and between the Rail Grinding and those "On-Rails" segments, it provided a moderately satisfying experience akin to the 2D games.See, here's the thing, you said earlier that Sonic is "2D only", but I don't acknowledge the notion that a 3D game is not truly 3D if you're not in a sandbox. "Point A to Point B" platforming does work in 3D, as the Adventures did it, and also the bonus stages of Super Mario Sunshine did it.
Could you recreate SA2's Final Rush in 2D? Sure, you can re-interpret anything. Would it be half as awesome? Not likely.
I bring up Shadow again. Many of his stages, no matter what the orientation was, were somewhat expansive. The Ark comes to mind. especially in The Doom, and that one other flashback stage. where you can actually get yourself lost.
See, here's the thing, you said earlier that Sonic is "2D only", but I don't acknowledge the notion that a 3D game is not truly 3D if you're not in a sandbox. "Point A to Point B" platforming does work in 3D, as the Adventures did it, and also the bonus stages of Super Mario Sunshine did it.
Could you recreate SA2's Final Rush in 2D? Sure, you can re-interpret anything. Would it be half as awesome? Not likely.
That's a valid point which RDW already touched on. A Sonic obstacle course is arguable BETTER suited for 3D due to the concept of depth perception. Problem is, Sega isn't willing to render that much scenery. At least not without forcing you to replay it 10 times to unlock something.
OCRemix wants to do the music for Sonic 4Mother of god no
http://www.pressthebuttons.com/2010/02/ocremix-wants-to-compose-sonic-4-soundtrack.html
Their stuff for SSF2HD wasn't too bad. They probably could do a decent job, as long as they keep their stuff in check.
I'm concerned.
Why didn't the player just go through that loop? What was up with that?
And how about the next rising part? Sure, you have to have enough momentum to go up, but did the jump physics seem off to anyone else?
Only other gripe I had (and it's mine and mine alone) was the return of the Sonic 1 Special Stage. I hated those. :'( But then, I never really practiced at them or played Sonic 1 with as much intensity as I did S3&K.
The player sucks. Watch the video again. He tried to use the homing attack to get up the loop. -AC
Yea. Sonic jumps like he is on the moon. Jumping animation needs to speed up when Sonic's speed increases. Even the physics are off. Sonic should be falling off the steep incline, not standing on it and walking in place.
It's bittersweet. The only challenge in S3&K's special stages is the speed increase. I'm glad they chose special stages from Sonic 1. Would've liked to seen halfpipes from 2 though...but I enjoy that they are going back to what made Sonic games good for the casual gamer and challenging for expert players.
Blue Sphere is the best Special Stage and you know it. Challenge is for pussies.
To be honest, I didn't expect a minor complaint like that out of you. And I coulda swore there were walkon springs in the Genesis games, anyway.
I love how people are already getting worried that this could be a travesty because of these tiny little details which mean it isn't 100% faithful to the original games.
Wow... OCR Bashing... Never thought I'd see it. I take it that Dave Wise, who is REMIXING A TRACK FOR THE UPCOMING DKC2 ALBUM, is stealing HIS OWN MUSIC, adding to it, and saying that then? Look, if the people who make the source material, the composers and such, don't care what they do to their songs, why should you? The composers give props to OCR all the time, so that should at least show that OCRemixers respect the tracks. You want to hear a track that's awesome and is a completely different style? Here (http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01836/). And I don't listen to the judges; that's basically reading a review. And reviews are just opinions, so everyone has one. They all stink.I agree that criticizing fans for creating derivative works is senseless, since 99% of us do that in some form or another (sprites, drawings, fanfics, whatever).
To be honest, I didn't expect a minor complaint like that out of you.
Sure, the physics ARE flawed in this build.. but doesn't mean they can fix this in time for the summer.
I love how people are already getting worried that this could be a travesty because of these tiny little details which mean it isn't 100% faithful to the original games.
Did I see walking/running into ground-rooted springs, instead of properly JUMPING onto them?
Am I honestly the only one here who isn't crying his eyes out that Sega isn't giving the fans eeeeexaaaaaaaaactly what they want?
It's a video game, people! A. VIDEO. GAME.
Well, fair deuce, I can accept that to an extent. But still, complaining about minor details is a bit much. I don't think it's going to necessarily crush the game.
IF the game does turn out to have much more glaring and teeth-gnashingly frustrating problems when it's released, THEN and ONLY THEN will I recant my argument. Until then, I'm staying where I am.
Also, I don't appreciate you referring to me as belonging to an "ilk".
What's the point, ultimately, in deviding fans amongst tribes? It's stupid and juvenile.
But still, c'mon. It's a video game. Video games shouldn't be SERIOUS BUSINESS like this.
Since when did Sonic having green eyes mean it's the end of the world?(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8153/77844060.png)
If this game sucks, don't blame Sega and/or Sonic Team. (http://kotaku.com/5473427/sega-not-developing-sonic-4) Dimps is doing this one. Not too surprising, I guess. It does have that Rush feel to it. At the same time, this kinda brings my hopes up a bit. Dimps has done an okay job with past games. And that's really all I want in this Sonic 4; an okay job.
I cant believe you Sega. Your one chance to redeem yourself and prove you can make a good Sonic game and what do you do? You let another group do it.Do you not understand it yet? Neither Sega nor Sonic Team can make a good [tornado fang]ing Sonic game anymore.
Oh come on Sega.
Granted, this shoots the game's chances way up, but still, Seriously?
The problem with Sonic Team is that they can't make a camera system worth [parasitic bomb]. I'm glad Dimps is doing it, because I'm sure Sonic Team would manage to mess up on the camera somehow.how can they mes it up if it's 2D?
Also, the fact that some of you that accepted Unleashed are railing on this already just boggles my mind. BOGGLES I TELL YOU.
If this game sucks, don't blame Sega and/or Sonic Team. (http://kotaku.com/5473427/sega-not-developing-sonic-4) Dimps is doing this one. Not too surprising, I guess. It does have that Rush feel to it. At the same time, this kinda brings my hopes up a bit. Dimps has done an okay job with past games. And that's really all I want in this Sonic 4; an okay job.
how can they mes it up if it's 2D?
I believe his point is that even if it is 2D they WILL find a way.Exactly my point, thanks Taiyo.
Do you not understand it yet? Neither Sega nor Sonic Team can make a good [tornado fang]ing Sonic game anymore.
They are incapable of it, because... I don't know honestly. I just don't know.
If this game sucks, don't blame Sega and/or Sonic Team. (http://kotaku.com/5473427/sega-not-developing-sonic-4) Dimps is doing this one.
Might have something to do with the fact that Sonic Team has basically been locked in Sega's basement being forced to work on cranking out at least one Sonic game every couple of years since the Adventure days.They're incapable of making a good [tornado fang]ing Sonic game because they're burned out, soulless husks of game developers that Sega is keeping on life support simply to milk them for cash.
Ever since Naka and a few key members left Sonic Team, the games don't seem all that cool anymore.Are you kidding me? Naka was a cancer upon Sonic. Or so I remember.
Are you kidding me? Naka was a cancer upon Sonic. Or so I remember.
Also, he was the main reason for cancellation of Sonic Xtreme because:
"LOL NO U CAN'T HAVE TEH NiGHTS ENGINE! HA HA HA!"
Therefore, I hate his face.
After the likes of Sonic Advance 3, Sonic Rush Advance and Sonic Unleashed WiiS2?
Only except.. (http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/sonicxtreme/index.html) The graphics are already made, and the rom's perfectly emuable and ready to sell. I can't see why he decided to cancell it in the last minute in favor for a cheesy port of Sonic 3D Blast. It's why I never got a SEGA console inbetween the Genesis and the Dreamcast.
I love Sonic Advance 2. O^O
with Vanilla
Because Advance/Rush's music was not memorable, save for maybe Metal Scratchin'.
Sonic Rush had tasty music, I don't care what anyone says.
I love Sonic Advance 2. O^O
with Vanilla
....Oh when Jelly sees the lack of Wrapped in Black....
Busty rabbits are always a plus.
Then again, so are busty bats and loli rabbits.
However, there's that need to add another unecessary character for almost every game... it's why Vela Nova's track isin't as memorable as the Knuckles fight in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Blaze was developed a little too late when Xtreme was put into production.
Since the Rush music may have been a little too busy, but it was most likely the right choice for Sonic vs Blaze, with Eggman/Eggman Nega hanging in the background. I was never fond of any of the special stages. period (Well, Sonic 3's but eh).
Am I the only one that liked Sonic Spinball?
Only except.. (http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/sonicxtreme/index.html) The graphics are already made, and the rom's perfectly emuable and ready to sell. I can't see why he decided to cancell it in the last minute in favor for a cheesy port of Sonic 3D Blast.Because they were Behind schedule, WAY behind, still were trying to figure out a boss engine, and Naka got showed the wrong demo. ( an older one) He then told them to remake the whole game with the working boss engine, and by then, well yeah.
LOLI?! Sir, you need some pink hedgehog bewbs, stat!
Rush's music was not memorable
I heard somewhere - and I don't know if this is true or not, just bear with me - that Sonic Xtreme was way behind development schedule for whatever reasons it was, and Naka wanted the game to be released in time for the holidays, or something to that extent; thus leaving the team absolutely little to no time to iron out the myriad bugs, glitches and problems that plagued it, as well as giving them virtually no time to sort out the boss engine. The chap who wrote this article concluded by saying that, had they done this and released it to the gaming public rather than scrapping the damned thing, it would have been akin to Sonic 06, circa ten years prior.
Anybody like to hazard a guess as to what that would have done to Sega at that relatively early stage, before the rot really began to set in?
*Rages into SSJ3*
Rush's soundtrack was not only the best Sonic soundtrack in ages, it brought back a lot of what had previously gone lost in the series musical progression - actual sampling and homages. Hell, imo I think it's soundtrack and composition should have been the next true evolution in Sonic music.
*Insert Jet Set Radio music here~* <3
Hell yes. 8B
Now see, Jet Set's music was a bit different. I remember more tracks out of it than Rush.
If you wanted Rush/Dimps' music to be an evolution, keep the same number of instruments as the Genesis games, replace one instrument with a new beat or sound, and maybe add the vocal element to it.
Not overcomplicate it to the point where it has no soul.
Actually, I preferred SRA's music over SR's because there weren't as many voice clips. I hated that about SR's music (except for Wrapped In Black, where it worked)
You know what, it would have just been better to leave this and "agree to disagree", but that last line is so much crap. Overcomplicated? Nothing in Sonic Rush's compositions is overcomplicated to the degree that you are describing. The use of samples to create an eccentric yet lively and truly "Sonic-y" type of sound (for 2004) is something that really added to the lasting appeal of the game.
As for the evolution idea you've mentioned, that sounds more like playing things safe and sticking to tried and true foundations rather than an evolution, something whose results are proven in Sega's approach to Sonic 4. Who didn't hear the initial title screen music that first day Sega revealed it and say "hey, this sounds like the Genny Sonic intros?" That works though since Sonic 4 is supposed to continue along those styles set by the series in '91 - '94. Sonic Rush tried to do something different and shake up a formula that had been used ever since then (strictly taking about Sonic 1 - 3K to SAdv1 - 3 that is).
Now I understand that this could all be because of musical preferences and the like, but to say the music really didn't possess anything lasting and break it's kneecaps by calling it overly complicated seems highly biased/opinionated. Say the music wasn't for you instead.
Every time I see those videos on Youtube, I feel we missed out on a really trippy game.
rather than add distracting horn blasts, long-winded and aimless synth, and shouting (see: 0^2 SSBB Remix)
Oh now you're really making an enemy out of me. 02 was the best [tornado fang]ing song in the game.
Too busy, too many instruments, methinks.
I personally agree with that statement, though voice clips do have their place (Sonic CD, for instance).
That all did sound like a generality; there were a few tracks in Rush that did have some soul (the ones I mentioned earlier), but much like a person, you have to dig through a whole bunch of layers before you get to it.
And if sticking to tried and true songs means more tracks like Casino Night, Green Hill, Ice Cap, Flying Battery, songs that inspire people to do remixes that still highlight the soul and basic melody of the songs rather than add distracting horn blasts, long-winded and aimless synth, and shouting (see: 0^2 SSBB Remix) or static voice clips, then I'm sticking to my guns.
I will never forgive that game for the US boss music.
On the subject of music, Sonic CD has some of the best [tornado fang]ing music in the Series. I'm pretty sure most people could agree with me on that.
It was weird, yeah. I still liked it though. XD
Kirby music is always good
anyone who disagrees is a deaf [Top Spin].
WORK DAT SUCKAH TO DEATH>0<
C'MON NOW
WORK DAT SUCKAH TO DEATH
Emmeroowds~ (http://www.tssznews.com/2010/02/16/bulletin-alpha-build-of-sonic-4-leaks/)So fresh crisp and cool looking.
(click)
(http://lol.rockmanpm.com/sonic4pic1.jpg) (http://lol.rockmanpm.com/sonic4pic1.png)
(click)
(http://lol.rockmanpm.com/sonic4pic2.jpg) (http://lol.rockmanpm.com/sonic4pic2.png)
(click)
(http://lol.rockmanpm.com/sonic4pic3.jpg) (http://lol.rockmanpm.com/sonic4pic3.png)
(http://lol.rockmanpm.com/sonic4pic2.jpg) (http://lol.rockmanpm.com/sonic4pic2.png)Has there ever been a Sonic game without a Casino stage?
Sonic CD, Sonic & The Secret Rings, almost any Crush 40 based Sonic soundtrack, etc.
Onions, cakes, and ogres have layers. Soundtracks do not. You either like certain songs or you don't.
....Okay, except that the majority of remixes for any song essentially comes from older games in general. It's not because the songs had more soul. It's because the music itself is limited and thus can be worked with more, but it's mainly because remixers grew up with those songs a lot more than they did the newer songs and thus have more of a personal attachment and feel to them. You could also factor in the popularity of the game itself. Our beloved MegaMan series is the prime example for this. How many remixes of Dr. Wily's Castle from MM2 have you heard compared to say anything from MM6-8? With Sonic, I hear more remixes of IceCap Zone than I do of say Death Egg Zone, Stardust Speedway, or anything from the Adventure series.
Emmeroowds~ (http://www.tssznews.com/2010/02/16/bulletin-alpha-build-of-sonic-4-leaks/)
Has there ever been a Sonic game without a Casino stage?Sonic 06, Unleashed...
Technically we didn't in Sonic 1 (we had Spring Yard Zone)
Okay. I don’t even know how to start. But, here we go.
Early in the morning today, I, and a other few (un)lucky people, had the opportunity to playtest the X-BOX 360 version of the game. In fact, any of you could do it as well, provided you own a Developer’s Console, or a J-TAGed system.
I’ll try to give a very briefely analysis of what were my thoughts about this game.
Graphically (and artistically, I must say), the game is very beautiful, even thought I can’t really eat that celshading effect they put in Sonic’s model, to make it look like a differed shaded Genesis sprite.Something important to notice is that, the 3D models are not really 3D models, instead, they are sprites of pre-rendered 3D models. SO we are pretty much dealing with a 2D game here. That goes for everything else but Sonic, since I’m not sure as if Sonic is really a sprite itself, but I pretty much think it is. THat might explain the akward animations.
The level design. I played through Splash Hill Zone entirely up until Casino Street Zone. Splash Hill ZOne is pretty much Neo Leaf Forest Zone (for those who don’t know, Sonic Advance 2’s first stage). Everything about it looked like Leaf Forest. Hell, even the level art itself reminds Leaf Forest some way or another. The level design pretty much encourages the player to keep going to the right, except when the levels abruptuly decides to force you to go in the opposite direction by inserting unexpected walls, making you jump, jump to the left, jump to the right, keep running to the right. It is especially strange, considering the level layouts encourages you to keep running right. The acts are actually considerably huge in size, but quite short in time, much like Sonic Advance 2 stages. I don’t remember any level especific gimmick on the first stage, which is pretty unfortunate. You gotta love Casino Street Zone, since it’s freaking Casino Night Zone. It’s exactly identical. The colors, the tiles, everything. The level layout however is much like Music Plant Zone from Sonic Advance 2. A level that right encourages speed. Ha, about the Special Stages, they are quite fun actually, it is Sonic 1’s Distorted Dimension, but with a new twist: instead of controling Sonic, you control the stage itself. So yeah, my oversight was right after all. In terms of difficult, I found it harder than Sonic 1’s Special Stages (and provided, they were rather easy). I belive they are going to be even fun/harder with the motion controls of the Wiimote/Six-axis/DualShock3, since you have to rotate the stage using the trigger buttons in the X-BOX 360 version (RT rotates to the right, LT to the left, etc). Looks like a pinball of sort. Oh, don’t let me get started on the bossfight. You might already imagine how it is by now.
The gameplay is pretty solid, actually. Which is a great thing. However, the game pretty much have the physics of Sonic Rush. I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate, I can’t stress enough how I hate the jump! [tornado fang]ing jump! It’s the worst jump I’ve ever seem in a Sonic game to date. Apparently they tried to mimic the ‘the longer you hold down the jump button, the longer you accent’ mechanic of the classic games, but as a result, they [tornado fang]'d the freaking cake with it. The jump is all over the place: if you rapidly tap the jump button, Sonic almost don’t jump; if you hold a little and release, Sonic starts accending, but he breaks to the floor as soon as you release the jump button. If you hold the jump button all the way down, Sonic jumps like if he had touched a spring, he jumps so high and almost no gravity, it’s like you are jumping on the freaking moon. And I thought the jump in the Rush series were bad. This one is even worse. The jump is so bad that I preffer to keep running right to win really. Don’t let me get started on the spin dash. THe spin dash don’t have enough power, no matter what. It behaves much like Knuckles’ Chaotix spin dash. Running rewards you with much more speed than spindashing.
My final remark of this game? It’s freaking Sonic Advance 2! It’s written Sonic Advance 2 all over the place. It is Sonic Advance 2 all over again. In fact, they could have named this game Sonic High Speed, and I wouldn’t mind it at all. But it is supposed to be Sonic [tornado fang]ing 4. To be honest, the name Sonic High Speed would fit this game better.
I am afraid to say that we are actually dealing with the very final product here, folks. Since the developers already sent the software for the Microsoft Evaluation Proccess. Additionally, the game’s software was sent to ESBR game content analizys team. Considering the game is already been analized and rated by ESBR, the development team cannot overgo any significative change in the game, visually or otherwise, which therefore pretty much means that this is what the game looks like.
I’m in a hurry here, and I’m sorry to not give a better insight on the game, but I’ll make sure to edit this post or whatever, whenever I have the time.
Believe me when I say this...
Nothing's going to come of it, the guy is full of [parasitic bomb] just on description alone. Take with a huge grain of salt.
Posted by GAFfer, relaying from Sonic Retro.You are officially more intelligent than even some staff at Sonic Retro for this sentence right here.
- http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=19076&st=4680&p=412686&#entry412686
Well, if this is true...
I mean, sure, we should wait for hard evidence. But knowing Sega-Sonic at this point? 8D
Believe me when I say this...This. I think I'll play the game myself first before making assumptions. Because when you assume...
Nothing's going to come of it, the guy is full of [parasitic bomb] just on description alone. Take with a huge grain of salt.
Another thing some people forget to give Rush credit for -- it really was an interesting take on strictly speed based Sonic. Dimps set up a good foundation for feel, mechanics, and tone in Rush, and then they went back and fixed the level design and even upped the ante on bosses in Rush Adventure. If only Sonic Team themselves didn't meddle around with RA and gave it a poor hub, forced story elements before levels, and Marine. (Oh GOD, MARINE. XD)
Also, isnt it DIMPS who's making it? Sega isnt actually involved. Theyre too scared of [tornado fang]ing it up that they are making someone else make it.
To all those complaining about the game's name: It's just a [tornado fang]ing name.
Blues has the clue.
I understand where you guys are coming from, and I agree that it's a risky move on Sega's part, but why compare it to Sonic 3 and Knuckles? That game is pretty much legendary amongst the fanbase. It's highly unlikely Sega could now try to achieve that same level of awesomeness. Rather than comparing it to something you should know that, at this stage in their career, Sega can never hope to equal, why not just try the game out and see how fun it is in its own right?Listen to this. Just like I've had to say to most series revivals nowadays (which makes me so sad) how about we wait to see how the final game is before we start bitching about it. It's one thing to speculate, it's another to whine away about things that are so minuscule and might not even be final.
To all those complaining about the game's name: It's just a [tornado fang]ing name.Sonic fans don't have common sense.
but why compare it to Sonic 3 and Knuckles?Because it's what the name "STH4" directly references. It makes S3&K the game's immediate predecessor in the series.
So, to call a game Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is to try and sell the consumer, being us, that this game is going to finally give new life to the classic Genesis series of old and bring back the good times and good memories that Playable Super Sonic has brought so many of us in the past, just how Mega Man 9 did to a generation of fans who grew up with the classic games of olden timesIt's funny you should bring up 9. Because, even though I like MM9, I do see a certain correlation between (some of) what I dislike about 9 and what direction STH4 is seemingly taking (unless Sega is saving a few bombshells for us, anyway).
It's not just Sega, though. Plenty of others have learned the hard way what happens when you just attach a name to a series all "willy-nilly".Hey, shouldn't Sega have already learned this, from that time a few years ago, when they came out with this weird 3D game that they called simply "Sonic the Hedgehog", even though there was already a game with that exact same name from like fifteen years earlier?
Or do we really need to bring up the likes of some of Capcom's own mistakes, like "Final Fight Revenge" and "Final Fight Streetwise"? 8DDon't forget "Street Fighter 2010: The Final Fight"! 8)
What's worse: complaining about a game that's not out yet, or complaining about complaining about a game that's not out yet?
Sonic fans don't have common sense.
Sonic fans don't have common sense.
What's worse: complaining about a game that's not out yet, or complaining about complaining about a game that's not out yet?
I'm not complaining, I'm just hoping people will stop whining and at least give it a chance. But as we all know...Well, what else is there to talk about before the game comes out? If there's nothing good to say about it, then nobody will say anything good about it.
Go play it if you can, and tell me if it's exactly as you remember. If it is, then your arguments stand.
I play it all the time. And it's still as awesome as I remember.:cookie:
Well, what else is there to talk about before the game comes out? If there's nothing good to say about it, then nobody will say anything good about it.
Was very fun.
Sonic 06 8D
ALL YOU'RE [tornado fang]ing DOING RIGHT NOW IS LOOKING AT EVERYTHING THAT COULD GO WRONG WITH THIS!Because Sega with Sonic is like Murphy's law incarnate. if theres something that they can mess up, they usually will.
Because Sega with Sonic is like Murphy's law incarnate.
ITT: Sonic is confirmed to be a master level troll. The simple mention of his name gets people raging over nothing. XD
How great would it be if this entire game, right down to the name and the flaws, was carefully planned out by Sega in advance just to troll the fanbase?
After the masterful levels of trolling that were OBVIOUSLY in place for the likes of "Black Knight"? Should there really be any doubt? 8D
Sonic really could benefit from a Sega AM2 style TLC and work ethic. A pity that's probably as far from the realm of possibility as could be expected.
I mean, SERIOUSLY though. How can the same company that provides sweet nectar like RGG/Yakuza, Valkyria Chronicles, Virtua Fighter and making deals with P* on one hand, be content to shovel out Sonic crap with the other? How can such a company be so lopsided...? -AC
It's funny you should bring up 9. Because, even though I like MM9, I do see a certain correlation between (some of) what I dislike about 9 and what direction STH4 is seemingly taking (unless Sega is saving a few bombshells for us, anyway).
Namely, that there is such a thing as going TOO basic in the attempt to "go back to roots". 9 disables the slide unless you're ProtoMan (double damage/knockback). Not my favorite design choice. Whereas the NES era encompasses 6 titles with a massive variety to them 9 and 10 are very clearly derived from the first two, and unlike games such as New Super Mario Bros., virtually discard the advancements that the sequels made. Most of the "new age" stuff they tried to do for 9 didn't turn out so well (shop is horrid), besides the new game modes like Endless Attack.
@Flame: Is it not possible this is a pre-release build? One that hasn't have everything tweaked to perfection? If it is, of course the jump is bad; they haven't perfected it yet!Sega? Sonic? Perfection? DOES NOT COMPUTE.
(Except Black Knight. that is a trollery on Sega's part. Hell, it makes Shadow's game look almost ideal in comparison.)You know, sometime back I played a bit of Black Knight at a friends' place.
I'm just saying that the name is a marketing ploy
Well, Flame, at least you'll try it.You see, something that Ive seen many fans of anything, (sonic or Megaman, and not all of them, mind you- some-) cant seem to grasp, is the concept of a flawed game being fun. Sonic 06 is very flawed, but that does not mean it isnt fun. I love it. and I aknowledge that it had issues.
You see, something that Ive seen many fans of anything, (sonic or Megaman, and not all of them, mind you- some-) cant seem to grasp, is the concept of a flawed game being fun. Sonic 06 is very flawed, but that does not mean it isnt fun. I love it. and I aknowledge that it had issues.
It depends on the flaws. Many movies have flaws, but it can still wind up being a fun movie. However, the flaws can be SO bad that it ruins the whole experience, like Indy 4.I guess in that case it depends on the person, and how that flaw feels to them, Mr. I-refuse-to-play-X7-because-of-Unlockable-X.
the flaws can be SO bad that it ruins the whole experience, like Indy 4.I liked Indy 4 :(
I guess in that case it depends on the person, and how that flaw feels to them, Mr. I-refuse-to-play-X7-because-of-Unlockable-X.
I liked Indy 4 :(
Exactly. So your whole concept of a flawed game being fun depends entirely on the person playing it, not the flawed game itself.Yes, however, my point is that too many people are quick to dismiss a flawed game without trying to find it's redeeming points. A flawed game can also be fun.
Hancock
Yes, however, my point is that too many people are quick to dismiss a flawed game without trying to find it's redeeming points. A flawed game can also be fun.
In fact, many bashers then create the opinion that people who might have never played that particular game take on. Ill admit, Since everyone was bashing 06 back in the day, I kind of started too. After reading up on its mess ups. But, given the chance at a 360, (and seeing some gameplay footage) I DID want to try it despite what I thought of it.
I quickly changed my tune and I like the game now.
I liked Hancock! D=
Your entire point is invalid because a game flaws can be viewed differently by different individuals.^ This.
Take Phantom Hourglass, for example. Some people, like myself, loved the controls, whereas others absolutely hated it. Same with Sonic '06. Some people liked the controls whereas others hated it. It's entirely based upon the individual playing it.
...
To each their own.
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they all stink.
To each their own.No, stop giving each their own! I don't want my own!
You see, something that Ive seen many fans of anything, (sonic or Megaman, and not all of them, mind you- some-) cant seem to grasp, is the concept of a flawed game being fun.
...
X6,etc.
...that's the point that myself, Shell, and Ben were trying to get across. It's not so much the game itself that's the problem......yet. It's more so the marketing ploy itself.See, I am actually terrified of the levels of rage that will froth from the mouths of the Sonic fandom when they realise Sega didn't name it Sonic 4 for them and to make a true sequel to S3&K, but because the name is so powerful that it brings Sega the one thing it wants most: Publicity. And there is no such thing as bad publicity.
The only movie I hated more than Indy 4 that year was Repo: The Genetic Opera.Really? I'm actually genuinely curious as to what soured it for you.
See, I am actually terrified of the levels of rage that will froth from the mouths of the Sonic fandom when they realise Sega didn't name it Sonic 4 for them and to make a true sequel to S3&K, but because the name is so powerful that it brings Sega the one thing it wants most: Publicity. And there is no such thing as bad publicity.
ShTHH also had the 4kids voices, the premise of emo shadow with guns, aaaand aliens. I think it was mostly though, the 4kids VAs and the idea of weapons that soured it.
But then again, a better example is reviewers who gave the 360/PS3 Unleashed a low score, and then went and gave the Wii/PS2 version a higher score.
Speaking of that, why can't they just release Sonic '06 on the Wii? I always thought how they could get it to work on the Wii.
And there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Really? I'm actually genuinely curious as to what soured it for you.
Bad publicity, no. Bad marketing, yes.Unfortunately, they're eating the marketing up like mad. Or at least were. The Endri thing, despite the lack of proof, soured it for alot of people for no real reason. I honestly think they're just looking for a chance.
I hated the music. When you hate the music to a musical, the movie itself suffers.Yeah, fair enough. The music wasn't astonishing, but I did enjoy the idea of a repo man taking back your organs.
Yeah, fair enough. The music wasn't astonishing, but I did enjoy the idea of a repo man taking back your organs.
Well there is a movie coming out called Repo Men. It's pretty much the exact same plot, just without the music.I heard about that. It has my interest, at least.
But then again, a better example is reviewers who gave the 360/PS3 Unleashed a low score, and then went and gave the Wii/PS2 version a higher score.Even better, have you ever compared DC and GCN reviews of the Adventures? GCN versions generally score about half of the originals, despite being exceptionally faithful and in many (minor) ways improved. The only downside across both titles that I ever noticed was the lack of skin textures in SA:DX (an oddity which Sega repeated in all new titles for that console generation). The fact is, when Sonic lost his "console mascot" status, he lost his appeal to the press. It often seems to me like they expect him to be a furry Mario, which he isn't.
The Wii can't handle that much suckitude 8D.The Wii handled NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams, which can't even get the damn pointer to work right. I can't imagine '06 was worse than that. If the game functionally receives the controller's input, it's already got a nice jump start.
I can't imagine '06 was worse than that.
The Wii can't handle that much suckitude 8D.
(http://i48.tinypic.com/291jhh2.jpg)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2yvjrbk.png)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/o04ewy.jpg)
Thoughts?
Say "hi" to an old friend. (http://www.destructoid.com/sonic-3-level-designer-is-working-on-sonic-the-hedgehog-4-164382.phtml)
Well this might make some fans happy, at the very least! XD (http://www.gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=114998)
Say "hi" to an old friend. (http://www.destructoid.com/sonic-3-level-designer-is-working-on-sonic-the-hedgehog-4-164382.phtml)
See, that would be great.
Here's the porblem. It's Takashi Iizuka. http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_3#Production_Credits
"Senior Game Designers: Takashi Iizuka,"
And Iizuka is not only still very active, but very unpopular with the fans for certain mishaps (NiGHTS sequel, anyone?)
See, that would be great.
Here's the porblem. It's Takashi Iizuka. http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_3#Production_Credits
"Senior Game Designers: Takashi Iizuka,"
And Iizuka is not only still very active, but very unpopular with the fans for certain mishaps (NiGHTS sequel, anyone?)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/o04ewy.jpg)
Thoughts?
Hey now, let's not forget x8 was the first 2.5d game that really shined.[objection!]
http://www.rockmanpm.com/player/player.swf?file=http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/mp4/mischiefmakerswii.mp4
[objection!]
(http://ui09.gamefaqs.com/2376/gfs_15174_2_11.jpg)
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2384/1266960369159.jpg) (http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2384/1266960369159.jpg)
Not only retreading old stages, but bringing back old boss fights too? Looks like they are hearkening back to old days, playing it safe. This can actually be a good thing. Can't tell from the picture, but if you can get multiple hits on Eggman before touching solid ground, if not all 8 hits, that's another plus. No more boss that take 10 minutes to finish, please.
Actually, perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to think this is the same ol Wrecking Ball. Megamix put a nice spin on it, pun not intended. Maybe they're doing something similar here?Haha. I wish. Doubtful though.
If my theory's correct, they're saving the new [parasitic bomb] for Episodes 2 and onward.Makes sense to me.
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2111/1266965941674.jpg) (http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2111/1266965941674.jpg)
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2384/1266960369159.jpg) (http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2384/1266960369159.jpg)
I wouldn't go so far to say Metroid does it. But yeah, Kirby is notorious for this stuff.Ridley and Kraid come to mind as far as Metroid is concerned.
RIP Sonic 1991-1997
The only thing that Sega can do to save face is cancel the game, or have dedicated fans create the REAL Sonic 4.
I would like if we the dedicated fans can just make the Sonic 4 ourselves, we already spriters and game desingers on this forum alone, why not Sega just let us create the real Sonic 4 while they can continue milking the franchise by putting in more angsty Shadow, the Trunks clone Silver and just random buddy that is just a plot device for the latest game, they "worked" so far at designing?
The problem is that this is Sonic 4. A sequel implies new content, not rehashing the old. The wrecking ball appearance in S3K was acceptable, seeing how it wound up the Death Egg saga, but this is just unacceptable.how about you quit bitching and let me enjoy this while you go back to reporting every vaguely offensive post on gamefaqs.
Seriously, how wasn't that game better received?
I think the werehog, (inexcusable fail at terminology aside,) was pretty fun. (360/PS3 ver.) 1 or 2 awkward camera angles here or there, but it was an enjoyable experience. I loved levels like Skyscraper scrapmer night, among others. And if the prospect of werewolf Sonic was that annoying, then squint and imagine you are playing Knuckles. With stretchy arms. 8U... The camera was horrible in the night stages. Ho.rri.ble. That does not qualify as just "1 or 2 awkward camera angles here or there", pretty much any spot where you needed to make a precise jump it was placed in such a way that you can't judge the jump properly. It wasn't just that, the game had it's fair share of other problems. You could drown while standing on dry ground, for [tornado fang] sakes. This was all on the 360 version too, so don't go telling me it's because it's the Wii/PS2 version. Those night stages would have been unacceptable to me even if it wasn't a Sonic game. How that's better than the little miniscule mistakes they're making in Sonic 4's freaking beta version that you haven't even played, I don't even want to know.
Haven't you ever heard the saying "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all?"Yes, but I disagree with it. :D
Its called sucking less.
Also, that's not what killed Sonic Unleashed. What killed Sonic Unleashed was retarded [tornado fang]ing level design, in the day and night stages. When you drop into a bottomless pit in the first 1.5 seconds of a stage, you know the designers failed utterly.
Having Sonic run so fast that it's impossible to see what you're doing was also a stupid decision.
We had human characters since SA1. And, for the sake of argument, since Sonic 1, if we include Eggman. The human characters are very ignorable. Only really important ones are Pickle and whatsis name his assistant. (and the shop folks)
What prevented me from even touchign the game are the human characters, they look like they belong in another platform game created for the system but they just threw in Sonic for more money.
Its called sucking less.
Then how come I, and many other people, had no problems?
Y'see, I never noticed all that terribleness when I played Unleashed. Like I said, camera only pissed me off once or twice, thats it. Mainly in Skyscraper Scamper night, actually.
I enjoyed the Wolfhog. (the gimmick was stupid, but it ended up fun)
Probably for the same reason that others didn't have such problems in the Rush games. You either liked what you had in that game, or Sega-Sonic Stockholm made you overlook it. 8Dtouche
Then how come I, and many other people, had no problems?
some people cannot seem to grasp the concept of a flawed game still being fun to play.
Yes, because poor level design and too much damn motion blur to effectively see what you're doing aren't legitimate complaints.whoa whoa, hold the phone.
[tornado fang] you.
Sonic Unleashed is the only Sonic game I've ever gotten so frustrated with that I actually returned it to the store--and I still own Shadow The Hedgehog. There were a few good stages, but 90% of the daytime stages that I was able to actually play through I didn't like--I specify "that I was able to play through," because I never actually managed to get to Eggmanland. I was like 25 medals short of opening the stage with the boss key for the continent prior to Eggmanland, and I never managed to collect enough of the damn things to open the door.
That's another thing that pissed me off about it. Yeah, requiring pickups to open stages isn't a new thing by any means, but I think it was poorly executed in Unleashed. The sudden huge leap in medal numbers required to even progress beyond that point was ridiculous. Usually when pickups are mandatory they're the entire goddamn point of the game, not something so easilly missed as the medals in Unleashed.
I might find a flaw here and a problem there, but they really dont detract from my overall fun experience. Like I said before, some people cannot seem to grasp the concept of a flawed game still being fun to play.
I never had a problem with heroes voices, for example.
Can we get a sprite edit of PB in Phoenix Wright please, oh talented sprite artists?
The teamwork thing is drilled into your head
Can we get a sprite edit of PB in Phoenix Wright please, oh talented sprite artists?
"All right guys, lets show this creep the real super power of teamwork!"
PB Sex Attorney? Hmm...
PB Sex Attorney? Hmm...
"All right guys, lets show this creep the real super power of teamwork!" XD Yeah, there was a little too much teamwork in there. Still, as bad as the script was for some reason I can't help laughing everytime I remember Eggman's line in the Chaotix ending "As soon as I conquer the world...I.WILL.PAY.YOU!"Oh yeah I remember. XD Thats one hell of an IOU.
"As soon as I conquer the world...I.WILL.PAY.YOU!"
Lazy 5 minute edit go?
(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7964/phoenixpb.png)
I actually found that whole talking in mid-level thing kind of annoying after a while. It wasn't so bad in Heroes, though some lines were grating, but in Shadow and Sonic 2006, it got annoying.Talking during gameplay was actually one of Heroes' redeeming points to me. At least for Team Sonic. The others weren't quite as interesting.
Where's that damn fourth Chaos Emerald?
FIND THE COMPUTER ROOM!
FIND THE COMPUTER ROOM, [tornado fang]er!
Hey, if it weren't for ShTH, we wouldn't have these two gems:'Cause this is my United States of computer room! (http://usaofcomproom.ytmnd.com/)Quote from: Shadow the HedgehogWhere's that damn fourth Chaos Emerald?Quote from: Vector the CrocodileFIND THE COMPUTER ROOM!
"THE MORE THE MERRIER!"
ShTHH did have a few annoying ones.
Where is our PB Sex attorney sprite?!
Yeah, I agree.
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2lj2lgh.jpg)
I was really bored and didn't feel like doing anything productive >.>
Well, it did take longer than I thought a mere slightly altered recolor would XDIt should take 5 minutes though :P
PB poppln' collars
Yeah, I agree.
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2lj2lgh.jpg)
I was really bored and didn't feel like doing anything productive >.>
Yeah, I agree.White pixels... |:
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2lj2lgh.jpg)
I was really bored and didn't feel like doing anything productive >.>
By legal trickery you mean lying?
If Shadow's in this I will cry tears of happiness.your post was missing something so i fixed it. :v
Nothing would make me happier more than playable Metal Sonic.I have to say that sounds appealing. XD
your post was missing something so i fixed it. :v
I have to say that sounds appealing. XD
but then again, if Megamix proved something, its that any Sonic character can be in a 2D styled game and be unique at the same time. while still retaining the basic spindash.
If Shadow is in this will be "crying agonised tears", if Big the Cat is in this we would be so "ecstastic" but I think we should stick Sonic, Tails, sometimes Knuckles with Robotnik Secret character.
I have to say that sounds appealing. XDIf Megamix proved anything, it was idiots flock like sheep. Through out this whole thing, I've heard people say how Megamix is "classic sonic" and how it's basically "Sonic 4" and then turn around and cry about Homing Attack in Sonic 4. The closest you get to Classic Sonic in Megamix is Mighty. The level design is not, however, and Sonic sure as hell isn't, classic Sonic. That's not a bad thing, mind you, but people need to at least know what the they're saying when they say it.
but then again, if Megamix proved something, its that any Sonic character can be in a 2D styled game and be unique at the same time. while still retaining the basic spindash.
The closest you get to Classic Sonic in Megamix is Mighty.
Golden Flash
Clear all Acts as Super Sonic. (10)
in before every sonic fan hates it anyways.You know what? If they do, they can go to hell. Seriously.
I rarely had enough patience to get all of the Chaos Emeralds. Hence, I never really experienced it until recently. x3Not me. I made it a point to learn every nook and cranny of STH3's first two zones so that I could nab all 7 before the end of Hydro City (I've done dedicated Emerald-less runs for the sake of ending art, so please Ben, no lectures on game balance).
What I love is that people who were saying they weren't gonna buy it are now saying they'll buy it.
I said it before and I'll say it again: Tails, Knuckles, Super Sonic. Start with that if you want to come anywhere close to being worthy of the name STH4. If they fail on all three points then they'll have a hard time convincing me to spare my short-supply Wii blocks
What I love is that people who were saying they weren't gonna buy it are now saying they'll buy it.
in before every sonic fan hates it anyways.Well, she called it.
Stage music replaced with 15-20 second looping jingle.
This is why I don't care for Super Sonic anymore.
Judging by that interview they're fixing the floaty jump physics. Good to know.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/1txaac.gif)
Yes because an unfinished hack is indicative of an official product.
Oh, and look at that! Useless enemy "air bridges" also returned!
...So basically, ol boy Iizuka went for this whole "DLC" avenue in the first place, because they couldn't see people spending 50-60 bucks for a 2D Sonic game on disc.I'll be curious as to how the combined price of all four DLC episodes compares. Because I'm VERY eager to call bull on that one; I find it more likely that they simply enjoy the iron grip that DLC gives the distributor on the product.
What we need is MIGHTY! I've been saying this since frickin' Sonic and the Black Knight. WE NEED MIGHTY BACK!
Bean the Dynamite?
That's exactly what the guy did! XD(http://home.comcast.net/~Anguirus/objection.gif)
Silver is the upstart rookie who wishes to show how competent he is... pretty much Axl.Is it just me, or does Silver SOUND just like Axl as well as generally being the same kind of character?
In reality, it's because the character has no noticeable niche that isn't taken up by another character:Well, Sega's already ignored that ability-wise (Werehog vs Chaos 0). Character-wise, there are so damn many new-age Sonic characters that I doubt it'd matter. Where do the likes of Big and Cream fit into those character niches?
Well, Sega's already ignored that ability-wise (Werehog vs Chaos 0). Character-wise, there are so damn many new-age Sonic characters that I doubt it'd matter. Where do the likes of Big and Cream fit into those character niches?
Cream & Cheese have a character niche?My point.
wow. that was a weird choice. why couldnt they just, you know, done the "wheel" on its own? Like old sonic? this DOES look weird.
Honestly, are you going to condemn the entire game for one [tornado fang]ing animation that's probably going to be going by too fast for you to even tell in the first place?
And remember, Sonics 1, 2, and Knuckles weren't exactly "gems", either.
And remember, Sonics 1, 2, and Knuckles weren't exactly "gems", either. That's probably why they were so hated for the longest. Sonic 1 is slower than Antarctic Molasses, Sonic 2 drags on way too much and the goalposts are too scattered to make Emerald collection fluid, and S&K's stage design post-Flying Battery is *BEEP*.
Sonic games are best judged when we get it in our hands, not by vids.
And remember, Sonics 1, 2, and Knuckles weren't exactly "gems", either. That's probably why they were so hated for the longest. Sonic 1 is slower than Antarctic Molasses, Sonic 2 drags on way too much and the goalposts are too scattered to make Emerald collection fluid, and S&K's stage design post-Flying Battery is *BEEP*.this man speaks truth, take off your [tornado fang]ing nostalgia goggles kids.
And remember, Sonics 1, 2, and Knuckles weren't exactly "gems", either. That's probably why they were so hated for the longest. Sonic 1 is slower than Antarctic Molasses, Sonic 2 drags on way too much and the goalposts are too scattered to make Emerald collection fluid, and S&K's stage design post-Flying Battery is *BEEP*.You know, I've though this for a long time for a lot of things you've said, but this time it really needs to be said. What in the bloody holy hell are you talking about? I've never heard of anyone flat out hating Sonic 1,2 or S&K. I'll agree that they have some faults, but "hated" is hardly the term anyone ever uses for those games, seeing as this is the first time I've actually heard any of that used for those games in specific. You're allowed to feel that way, but don't act as if this was a widespread common comment, seeing as that is clearly not the case. "Disliked" would have been more appropriate for those sections of the games, as I have heard/seen plenty of that (for those issues you listed, which are indeed true for the most part).
I still say it's too early to judge.I would argue that it applies to most games too, not just Sonic.
Sonic games are best judged when we get it in our hands, not by vids.
Sonic games are best judged when we get it in our hands, not by vids.
this man speaks truth, take off your [tornado fang]ing nostalgia goggles kids.
So basically, Sonic was NEVER good, amirite? 8D
So basically, Sonic was NEVER good, amirite? 8Dit was only good when they realized a fat man and a smug blue rodent could only carry it so far.
it was only good when they realized a fat man and a smug blue rodent could only carry it so far.
I'll agree that they have some faults, but "hated" is hardly the term anyone ever uses for those games, seeing as this is the first time I've actually heard any of that used for those games in specific.
So basically, Sonic was NEVER good, amirite? 8D
this man speaks truth, take off your [tornado fang]ing nostalgia goggles kids.
And remember, Sonics 1, 2, and Knuckles weren't exactly "gems", either. That's probably why they were so hated for the longest. Sonic 1 is slower than Antarctic Molasses, Sonic 2 drags on way too much and the goalposts are too scattered to make Emerald collection fluid, and S&K's stage design post-Flying Battery is *BEEP*.
this man speaks truth, take off your [tornado fang]ing nostalgia goggles kids.
By the way, how can anybody say that Sonic 1, 2, or Knuckles (which is basically Sonic 3 Part 2) were bad with a straight face? They have flaws, I can definitely agree to that, but to say they were bad?
Still decent games, otherwise, I wouldn't be buying collections, now would I?
Still decent games, otherwise
STILL DECENT GAMES
this man speaks truth, take off your [tornado fang]ing nostalgia goggles kids.
Sonic 1 is slower than Antarctic Molasses, Sonic 2 drags on way too much and the goalposts are too scattered to make Emerald collection fluid, and S&K's stage design post-Flying Battery is *BEEP*.
Sonic games are best judged when we get it in our hands, not by vids.
B) Hated by Sega/Sonic Team's inner sanctum of Execu-bots, including that one President or whoever we have on record saying he hated the Genesis games. Those reasons are why.
(http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo268/mappster102/frasierpalm56.gif)
you can say that they didn't make any thing that has been outright TRIFLING in scope, much less anything that could be described as "not worthy of being another number attached to an established series".I'd honestly debate that with 9, given the "fake difficulty" issues, among other things. I like 9, mind you, but I find it "so-so", and not really able to stand up to the other entries in the franchise, either before or after (10 was a surprisingly stronger effort.
wow. that was a weird choice. why couldnt they just, you know, done the "wheel" on its own? Like old sonic? this DOES look weird.Maybe the storage space for downloadable games was so cramped, they had to save on unique sprites to fit everything in?
You mean the same guy who basically gave a middle finger to when the games had ACTUAL platforming and momentum-based speed? The same guy who said that "Sonic is not for you!" (implying that nobody over 13 has no right to complain about the series)? 8D
Is there any wonder why guys like me can't stand guys like him, for all he does to just serve as an all too apparent reminder that Sega/Sonic has no idea what the flying [tornado fang] they're doing with the franchise? 8D
fans who approve of that sort of thing and eat up the worst part of Shadow's character and that Sonic X cartoon like it's some sort of mana from heavenTo be fair, X beats the [parasitic bomb] out of Underground. Even if that's not saying...anything at all. -AC
To be fair, X beats the [parasitic bomb] out of Underground. Even if that's not saying...anything at all. -ACYeah, afraid so. The only thing that was remotely good about Underground was the intro >_>'
Sonic Underground's theme song was cool, but I think I found one more fitting! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bJKS4GQSWg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bJKS4GQSWg)That is hilariously awesome. I approve.
It was just a bonus that there is a Sonic song that sounds like "Everywhere You Look" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azzoPlYhY08).
To be fair, X beats the [parasitic bomb] out of Underground. Even if that's not saying...anything at all. -ACWait... people still HATE on Sonic X? HOLY [parasitic bomb] THAT'S HILARIOUS!
2). Dark Super Sonic. I mean seriously, [tornado fang] yes. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtvplkXKSaY) Im still waiting for Sega to bring Dark Supersonic into the games.
Anyone remember the old SatAM cartoon? The one the comics were based on? I often wonder why they even included Antoine. He did NOTHING but act like a stereotypical French ponce, get in the way and make a nuisance of himself. At least in the recent comics he took a level in Badass.It's not really all that recent. Antoine has been relatively competent in battle ever since hooking up with Bunnie (waaaaay back in #46, IIRC). I do like how recent issues have him being the oldschool nervous wreck in battle but without being worthless, it's a nice balance. The shot of him jumping on the Genesis-styled prison switch was just awesome.
It's this kinda faggy emo [parasitic bomb] that kids these days eat up. The last thing we need is this in a [tornado fang]ing game. I mean, isn't Darkspines Sonic close enough for you?Hey, well, It's not really faggy and emo. I mean, Sonic was more like RRRRAAAAGEEEEE than CRAWLLLIIIIIING IIIIINNN MYYYY SSSPPPIIINNNEESSS!
But it's the premise itself, the hero having a temporary dark turn, that's still tired and stupid and gay. And it is the [parasitic bomb] faggy emo kids eat up and put in their crappy AMVs and fanfictions.I like when hero has a PERMAMENT dark turn. Shame it doesn't happen too often. : <
And it is the [parasitic bomb] faggy emo kids eat up and put in their crappy AMVs and fanfictions.
I like when hero has a PERMAMENT dark turn. Shame it doesn't happen too often. : <
Did anyone here ever read those European Sonic comics where Super Sonic was always evil?I did.
Anyone remember the old SatAM cartoon? The one the comics were based on?
It's not really all that recent. Antoine has been relatively competent in battle ever since hooking up with Bunnie (waaaaay back in #46, IIRC). I do like how recent issues have him being the oldschool nervous wreck in battle but without being worthless, it's a nice balance. The shot of him jumping on the Genesis-styled prison switch was just awesome.
Other way around. The cartoon was based on the comic books.
I did.
[parasitic bomb] was so not cash.
Sonic was also a giant [tornado fang]ing dick. I mean, holy [parasitic bomb]. His dickery seemed to know no bounds.
On the other hand, that comic had a freakin' METALLIX LEGION.
I gotta track down that story arc.
I'm not sure it's either exactly... I think it's more like they started at the same time, based on the same concepts.Recall that there were two Sonic TV shows back then: SatAM with the Freedom Fighters, and the more goofy one with Grounder and Scratch. I remember from early letter columns, that the comic was meant to be a splice of both shows, but tended to lean more towards SatAM.
But it's the premise itself, the hero having a temporary dark turn, that's still tired and stupid and gay. And it is the [parasitic bomb] faggy emo kids eat up and put in their crappy AMVs and fanfictions.
Haha, oh god, just look at the related videos.
A Sonic game with a bad soundtrack? Isn't that an oxymoron or something?A contradiction, actually. Music's pretty much the only thing the series has had consistently at or above the "good" level. Sonic 4 seems to be one of the few notches were the music is pretty mediocre to downright bad.
Oh wow. THATS where you first heard it?All right, now let's see if Fresh Prince can ruin the song for anybody else:
lol.
he seems to gain speed a bit TOO easily.
and he also seems to go up inclined surfaces a bit too easily, like theres no resistance.
although his speed in comparison to his running animations seems a bit off...Typical of Dimps. In the Rush games, Sonic seems to slide/hover as he starts running.
Destroys my dream of a Crush40 theme appearing as a stage Super Sonic track, but I knew that was hoping for too much.I don't know, how should I feel about what you just said. : /
he seems to gain speed a bit TOO easily.
and he also seems to go up inclined surfaces a bit too easily, like theres no resistance.
also, why does he go into that arms flailing pose almost every time he makes a really high jump? It really shouldn't work that way...
But definite improvement. although his speed in comparison to his running animations seems a bit off...
Well that's his fault for going so fast and not worrying what was in front of him. Not unique to Rush, either.
well there is always the option not to use itAre you kidding? You think anyone can resist that kind of temptation? When I played as Sonic in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, pretty much all I did was tap the homing attack button over and over. It beats rolling around until you roll off the stage, I think.
No, you see the strategy with Sonic is, get the Smash Ball, go Super, smash everyone around, and heal your teammates/bros. That's how you should really brawl as Sonic.
Also I'm somewhat boggled that anyone would use the homing attack in Brawl, much less over and over.
Sooo people are still bitching about the homing attack? Why is that, I wonder.Because it's stupid.
Lost Labyrinth Zone Act 2: Watch (http://www.rockmanpm.com/player/player.swf?file=http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/9209.mp4) | Download (http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/9209.mp4)
Nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned. The biggest piece of gaming garbage I've seen in quite some time. It appears Sega won't be enjoying the success that Capcom reeled in for Megaman 9.
Based on one stage? Wow. You're one of the foolish ones.
Awesome, it's Sonic's Tilt 'n' StumbleLost Labyrinth Zone Act 2: Watch (http://www.rockmanpm.com/player/player.swf?file=http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/9209.mp4) | Download (http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/9209.mp4)
Awesome, it's Sonic's Tilt 'n' Stumble
I would have hoped you were familiar with the phrase "nail in the coffin" but it seems you are not. You really are one of the foolishly foolish fools.
Ah mine cart section... perfect for migraine. (I feel nausea already)
I seen you had the problem against the Mine Cart Routine since the DKC days. XDWait does DKC have this rotate stage thingie? :\
Wait does DKC have this rotate stage thingie? :\
It's not the mine cart that is the problem, it's the *control your stage with shoulder button* and sucky player that made me headache.
With the shoulder button? You mean you don't get to use a controller with a tilt sensor?
With the shoulder button? You mean you don't get to use a controller with a tilt sensor?Well it says RT and LT... which means shoulder button yes?
Playing as R.O.B. on the other hand...R.O.B.'s Final Smash is INFINITELY cheaper than Sonic's. At least with Sonic there's the off chance of dodging if your opponent lacks the sense/dexterity to hover.
It's kinda like more annoying Loco Roco to be honest. Well it says RT and LT... which means shoulder button yes?
You know, with this whole "gain speed too easily" talk......am I the only one who remembers the spin-dash?
I'm just glad this place didn't turn into Sonic Retro. GREEN EYES and EYELIDS!!! WOW.
X,EXE,StarForce,Legends have different eyes/whole new designs, didn't see all of us bitching.
You know, with this whole "gain speed too easily" talk......am I the only one who remembers the spin-dash?No, but were talkin about how he gains too much speed just by jumping forward.
Close enough of a return to form for me to go on ahead and get my old name back.
Minecart's convoluted, and some of the jump/Casino spring physics are messed up, but it's close enough.
EDIT: And I just saw a BLOODY OPEN-BOTTOM spot in the 3rd Casino Street. OY!
There were a few open-bottom places in Sonic 2 and 3&K. Just not nearly as many as in, say, Sonic Rush.
Their placement has always seemed kinda arbitrary, so Sonic 4 can't be faulted too badly for it yet.
I am curious about something else though. Splash Hill Zone is unquestionably Green Hill Zone. Lost Labyrinth is Labyrinth Zone, Casino Street is Casino Night Zone. We're not even talking about inspiration here, we're talking about the developers blatantly copying the aforementioned zones from previous games and slapping a new coat of paint on them. I'm not going to complain about that as such, but I wonder if they're doing it on purpose since "Episode 1" is apparently supposed to be a prologue for the rest of the game... Could they perhaps be setting us up to relive the first few Sonic games before throwing something different at us?
OH PHYSICS WHERE ART THOU!?
(http://i39.tinypic.com/xaebp.gif)
Close enough of a return to form for me to go on ahead and get my old name back.I've already forgotten your new name! :( Who are you?
More~
Splash Hill Zone Act 1: Watch (http://www.rockmanpm.com/player/player.swf?file=http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/8141.mp4) | Download (http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/8141.mp4)
Splash Hill Zone Act 2: Watch (http://www.rockmanpm.com/player/player.swf?file=http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/7720.mp4) | Download (http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/7720.mp4)
Splash Hill Zone Act 3: Watch (http://www.rockmanpm.com/player/player.swf?file=http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/1090.mp4) | Download (http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/1090.mp4)
Splash Hill Zone Boss: Watch (http://www.rockmanpm.com/player/player.swf?file=http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/7863.mp4) | Download (http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/7863.mp4)
Lost Labyrinth Zone Act 1: Watch (http://www.rockmanpm.com/player/player.swf?file=http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/8267.mp4) | Download (http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/8267.mp4)
Lost Labyrinth Zone Act 2: Watch (http://www.rockmanpm.com/player/player.swf?file=http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/9209.mp4) | Download (http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/9209.mp4)
Lost Labyrinth Zone Act 3: Watch (http://www.rockmanpm.com/player/player.swf?file=http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/4362.mp4) | Download (http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/4362.mp4)
Lost Labyrinth Zone Boss: Watch (http://www.rockmanpm.com/player/player.swf?file=http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/6809.mp4) | Download (http://www.rockmanpm.com/lol/sonic4/6809.mp4)
Congratulations. Everyone's beaten Sonic 4 without having ever played it.
So much for Sega ever doing something like this again. Enjoy more [parasitic bomb] like Black Knight.
You can thank the so-called fans for looking something to nitpick about every new sonic game.. and Sega's half-assed attempt at lockout. -u-'Hey, just because I nitpick something doesn't mean I hate it.
If the game was actually any good, chances are....! The leaking would have only done more to help the game, rather than hurt it. You only have Sega-Sonic to blame for not doing "their" part.Okay, stop. Usually, I take a pretty laid back approach on this, but this completely misses the point.
Hey, just because I nitpick something doesn't mean I hate it.
Okay, stop. Usually, I take a pretty laid back approach on this, but this completely misses the point.
This is more serious because the we now have a whole game out on the market for all to see without playing three months in advance. In essence, this cripples potential sales of the title and, more importantly, casts doubts on Sega to ever try a project like this again (which I understand that even getting this thing green lighted was a pain because Execs weren't keen on the idea).
Long story short, kiss 2D Sonic good bye. All because the fans were too damn impatient and someone broke NDA by serving as a third-party and actually GIVING out the videos. This case is so severe, PartnerNET has been shut down. This has never happened at this level before and with an anticipated major multiplatform release.
Quality of the title because no one in this topic is qualified to talk about it (and kill yourself if you say you are just by staring at videos) is completely separate to the case here.
This is more serious because the we now have a whole game out on the market for all to see without playing three months in advance. In essence, this cripples potential sales of the title and, more importantly, casts doubts on Sega to ever try a project like this again (which I understand that even getting this thing green lighted was a pain because Execs weren't keen on the idea).
tl;dr: Let's just burn the damn fanbase to the ground.
Ben, your example has a game already released in one region. This is the equivalent of a beta of a title being leaked out before release. This situation has not come up with a high-profile title like this before in gaming history.
I'm getting tired of this whole "stick it to the man" attitude the Internet has toward Sega. "Yeah, [tornado fang] Sega!" when they have done nothing wrong here.
Yes, gamers' ire at Sega is well-deserved, Ben. But the responses from "fans" that STM is referring to are just as stupid as Sega's business decisions.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/Casvalv540/Myspace%20Profile/Games/SuperPaperMario.jpg)Just wanted to say that I love Nintendo for that segment of the game.
Keeping with the Sonic theme, let's take it back to the days of when Adventure came out for the Dreamcast in Japan. This was also the same version that was marketed with Sega and Blockbuster's campaign to help "sell" the system, no less.So you're comparing a bad camera, horrid amount of glitches, and an unstable framerate to... what now? Petty little [tornado fang]ing nitpicks for the most part? Yes, that makes a lot of sense.
That version of the game, to put it bluntly, was definitely HOT GARBAGE. I still look back and wonder how it was able to get released as it was. It's the only Sonic release that, in my eyes, begins to challenge 06's propensity for "not-fun-ness". Camera was bad. Glitches were bad. Framerate was all over the place. There was a whole lot that just pointed to that this was just not a good game. But be as it may, Naka's Sonic Team at least were willing to turn some things around, and the Western release of DC-Adventure became what it is, likely because people made such a big stink about they saw in the import/Blockbuster package.
It'll be interesting to see if ANY of the [parasitic bomb] that's gone done this last week will effect Iizuka's Sonic Team and Dimps in the same way. I sincerely doubt it, but hey, whatever at this point.
Now, as far as the main topic at this point:So you're comparing a bad camera, horrid amount of glitches, and an unstable framerate to... what now? Petty little [tornado fang]ing nitpicks for the most part? Yes, that makes a lot of sense.
You guys do realize that it's three months before release, right? SA did have loads of issues after it's release, yes... but this hasn't even been released yet. Think of this as beta testing. Also, I said for the most part; before the videos of the beta version here, it was all nitpicks.
"Spider Sonic...Spider Sonic...does everything else BUT what Sonic should DO!~"
I believe we have the title of the next Storybook Sonic game; Sonic and the Spider Bite!
Well, why not? If Sega Studios San Francisco/Secret Level weren't going to be closed up next month, I'm sure they could bang out another HIGH QUALITY release with Marvel's help. It'd be right in line with Iron Man! 8D
Keep believing that if you will, partner. That's what they said about Sonic 06, too. 8DI like giving them the benefit of the doubt rather than nitpicking every little detail right out of the announcement gate ;)
I like giving them the benefit of the doubt rather than nitpicking every little detail right out of the announcement gate ;)
Keep believing that if you will, partner.DON'T STOP
DON'T STOP
BELIEVIN'! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDY2I5pni90)
I believe we have the title of the next Storybook Sonic game; Sonic and the Spider Bite!
Sonic's going Greek, I just know it.
Are you positive that the failgifs are the game's fault? Who's to say it's the player that's doing something he's not supposed to. You really shouldn't jump to conclusions.That's what I thought too. It just seems to me, that this [parasitic bomb] is all the player's fault. In fact, I remember having some of those problems myself in the classic games on my first few playthroughs.
Are you positive that the failgifs are the game's fault? Who's to say it's the player that's doing something he's not supposed to. You really shouldn't jump to conclusions.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/533ecy.gif)
The Sonic Faggotry has hit RPM.
Bayonetta 360. Sonic unleashed 360. I forgave Sega a few months ago when I played Bayonetta.
I give UbiSoft credit for MegaMan Battle Network! >0<Oh, is that why they're so terrible?
Sonic 4 will immediately be more fun and worth playing and the story far more bearable than recent Sonic games. Okay?Sadly, limitations were actually a good thing. Without those limitations, they feel compelled to try more things that are bound for failure.
And yes, the Genesis games do have their glitches.
...but that was how many games ago? How many systems ago? How many limitations ago? Companies are supposed to get better, not worse. I hope these .gifs are equally rare occurrences as the Genesis games, but I just can't shake the feeling that it's not.
Sadly, limitations were actually a good thing. Without those limitations, they feel compelled to try more things that are bound for failure.
But this. That's a blatant path programming error if I ever saw one, and it's that #$!@nable curve that Dimps liked to use in the Rush games that was also used earlier in this thread in some black and white images pointing out "bad design".
Well, bloody chundah, lo and behold, look what we have on our hands.
Sorry, but it still looks like the player's fault to me. And the video you posted doesn't help change my mind any, Ben, cause he's clearly doing [parasitic bomb] he's not supposed to there. i.e., He's Doing It Wrong.
If a broken-ass Vs. fighting game is certainly not exempt from this type of thing, neither is a broken-ass platformer with horrid physics.
Gonna take you for a ride? 8)
Worse was Sonic's ability to casually stroll through entire loop-de-loops in Sonic '06. And NOT FALLING when coming to a complete stop while upside down.
...this coming from the person who gets the Red Ring on his finger whenever 16Bit X9 is mentioned...yes, granted I raged over 9 and 10, but I got over it and accepted it. Its more the initial shock that gets to me. 8D
...this coming from the person who gets the Red Ring on his finger whenever 16Bit X9 is mentioned...
16 bit X9 is a different matter all together in that it IS a bad idea for many reasons. It really wouldnt do anything for Megaman, (other than appease nostalgiafags) whereas Sonic NEEDS the reboot. But even if they made it, I would still play it, because im a fan. 8U Im not going to say FSDASAGDS IM NOT PLAYING THISJGKJGH
Even if a games idea is bad, the game is glitchy or whatever, it is still or can still be fun. Case in point here, Sonic 06. twas a biiiig mess, but still quite fun. Ben here though doesnt want to hear it, and refuses to play games based on nitpicks like physics. (06 had its fair share of issues in that too.)
Actually, reminds me of a certain someone who refuses to play X games over trivial reasons, Mr. Mighty warrior...
Also, I think were forgetting that were talking about a freaking VIDEOGAME, not the second coming of Christ.Can people please stop whipping this excuse out?
How the hell did we get so that we rage over a form of childish mindless entertainment like its the end of the world just because of a few imperfections? Jesus, just enjoy it for what it is, not what it "should be". Something to keep your mind off of life for a few moments. A distraction. ENTATAINMENTOO.
Jeezpeople.Ben.
.....that's even worse though. That LITERALLY means that you're complaining for absolutely NO reason at all
Secret Rings made it annoying to move backwards in the game. [...] but I can understand if other's would hate it due to that fact.
LoL, if you're referring to X7, I've clearly stated that my reasons for never playing that dust collector are purely stubborn & trivial. If you're referring to Xtreme 2, I've clearly stated that I 100% hate the control scheme, which is not a trivial matter.
Time to break out an old RPM favorite!Wow, and I thought only Sonic X-treme was supposed to have Super Mario Galaxy physics.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze582VGaAkY[/youtube]
...this coming from the person who gets the Red Ring on his finger whenever 16Bit X9 is mentioned...
If you're referring to Xtreme 2, I've clearly stated that I 100% hate the control scheme, which is not a trivial matter.
Sonic4 should have been made in the style and resolution of the original Master System Sonic The Hedgehog!
Sonic4 should have been made in the style and resolution of the original Master System Sonic The Hedgehog!Yes, and not like the first Game Gear game port, where Sonic didn't appear to have a nose!
X1~3 style would only serve to make the game look worse than it could be, with little to no gained value in terms of nostalgia and production effort. It also reduces the narrative to being a parody of itself, unable to contain the ideas demanded of a successor to X8.I think the story of X has already been a parody of itself for a long time, so while I wouldn't mind more X1 style graphics, I think some totally Super-Deformed graphics would work even better!
If you're referring to Xtreme 2, I've clearly stated that I 100% hate the control scheme, which is not a trivial matter.
Even if a games idea is bad, the game is glitchy or whatever, it is still or can still be fun.
or Shelly from liking X6I'm not sure how "in the same way" that is. My posts praising X6 very frequently compare it to its immediate predecessor, X5, on the standpoints of level design, power-up implementation, and accessibility between the playable characters (and, although a lesser point, boss-Zero AI). I'd say that falls well within your boundaries of argument that you defined in the first paragraph.
Flame didn't complain about a "16-bit" X9, he's complaining about an "X1~3 style" X9. X1~3 style is a crappy style compared to what a 16-bit system can truly do. When using sprites, a game on a "16-bit" system could be done in the exact same style as that of a "32-bit" system. X1~3 style would only serve to make the game look worse than it could be, with little to no gained value in terms of nostalgia and production effort. It also reduces the narrative to being a parody of itself, unable to contain the ideas demanded of a successor to X8.
Getting an emulator with gamepad of your own choosing is still beyond you?
I'm not sure how "in the same way" that is. My posts praising X6 very frequently compare it to its immediate predecessor, X5, on the standpoints of level design, power-up implementation, and accessibility between the playable characters (and, although a lesser point, boss-Zero AI). I'd say that falls well within your boundaries of argument that you defined in the first paragraph.
Not to dredge up what was already gone into detail in another topic, but again, that's the kind of line of discussion I was talking. In the end, one person's "broken-ness" may be some one else's "feature with merit", or on the fighting game tip, a "hidden feature"! 8D
I complain about the fact that I find it insulting that you have to unlock or save-data X in order to play as him in his own series.Hey, having the main character changed on you can be a fun surprise!
This chance extends to all companies.
0v0
♪ Bridge, Scrap Brain & Sky Base Zone Music ♪
Even Ubisoft? 8D
Even Ubisoft? 8DSadly, yes. I know all their problems way in advance though, so I'm not surprised by the bullshittery they pull off in the least 8D
Be that as it may, the point is that he still bitches and complains, but would still play it, making said complaints pointless.Such an approach is hardly exclusive to Flame. You just described me playing the Zero series.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hATnPlD854[/youtube]Wow, that looks pretty damn good. Hope it plays well, too.
3:14
I'll say the same thing about this that I did about MM9: It's a start.I kinda wonder how the Wii version will compare to the 360/PS3 version... since in the others, the game is in HD, I wonder if the graphics will imply small changes in the gameplay as well. Well, it sure didn't hurt All-Star Racing, so I'm hopeful.
Needs more star trails and better music. ...I wonder if somebody can make a Riivolution-esque setup for WiiWare games?
Technically there has not been a single title in which HD has impacted gameplay; I've never heard of the 360/PS3 game that does not function on an SDTV.Not just that. Nintendo's download limitations can do shitty things to games. I bought Monkey Island ep 1 on the Wii specifically because my computer ran it slowly, and my Wii ran it even worse! I couldn't believe it when I saw the framerate of the game, along with the low textures. It was a disgrace.
You're probably thinking of the power difference between the consoles. In that case, STH4 as I understand it is using pre-rendered 2D visuals. That should pose no problem, processing-wise (see Muramasa). I'd be more concerned about the Wii's limited storage capacity, having only a 512MB flash and all.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hATnPlD854[/youtube]Respek ^up
3:14
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hATnPlD854[/youtube]
3:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6KZ1AwBLFINow that's what I'm talking about. Wouldn't mind vocals, but Open Your Heart is one of those songs that works just as badassedly either way.
I know this is old news but how they alread bash a game over Sonic eye's?...what?
Yeah, his eye color. SHOULD BE GREEN!
(http://images.wikia.com/transformers/images/e/e8/Ruined_forever.jpg)Fans should be worried whether the gameplay's good or not instead of the eye color. The levels look amazing, at least.
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/1761/050710211900.jpg)what...?
what...?oops wrong topic. I'm surprised I didn't get marked for spam or anything.
lol The world's worst-kept secret...
Does this tidbit give anyone a bit of hope? (http://kotaku.com/5544051/segas-big-sonic-4-news-its-delayed)
I'm actually interested in this new Sonic 2D title, and I don't get why most of you hate on it. It looks sweet.
HokutoNoBen, you should know by know that people don't read the topics before posting! :P
I hate the fact, that there's so many bullshit levels with Tails/Eggman and Knuckles/Rouge one after another, and so little Sonic/Shadow ones.I love SA2, but there is no denying that for the speed freaks it is a quality over quantity thing. ESPECIALLY the Dark story, although why one would expect Shadow to get more focus than Eggman is beyond me. But in terms of play time he did get shafted.
That's no excuse, in my opinion. If you're going to subscribe to the "tl;dr" mindset, then you really have no place to say such things like "I dunno why you're ragging on this game so bad..." and etc. It should be a basic "net-iquette" thing.That's an exceedingly high demand to make of a response to a 40 page thread.
I know exactly why you hate on it, and I find it retarded.
I could get into a debate regarding what I exactly find retarded in your claims of "THIS IS BAAAADDDD!", but I'm a lazy bum and don't feel like it.
That's an exceedingly high demand to make of a response to a 40 page thread.
Honestly, that kind of attitude is why I hesitate to attempt to "break in" to other boards, such as MMX9.
I mean, I would think that anybody here who reads and/or interjects with any number of Zan's "exposition/scholarly" topics on this very forum would get that sort of thing by now.
I mean, I would think that anybody here who reads and/or interjects with any number of Zan's "exposition/scholarly" topics on this very forum would get that sort of thing by now.Discussions between Zan/me/Marshmallow Man are about storyline theory and implications, translated sources, and localization errors. This is about one's personal opinion as to gameplay quality. There's a world of difference. And yes, I rant about gameplay quality as much as anyone (watch me rip apart X5). One can easily say "I don't know why you bash such-and-such" having fully read your posts and simply not agreeing with your logic as to what does and doesn't constitute an enjoyable game. That's the way personal opinion works. As such, there's no real point in asking them to read a 10-40 page rant. Especially not on Sonic, which God knows has been torn apart from every possible angle over the years.
Eggman's levels were fine. He handled well enough. It's when you got to Tails and realised how [tornado fang]ing terribly he managed to handle that it was like "Why god why?!"I kinda agree with this except I don't see a difference in how they handle. To me it's just bad character management: Tails may be a handy man but he is not a mirror to Eggman. He doesn't sit on his butt and let machines do the work for him when it comes to adventuring. Gameplay-wise, I don't have a problem with Tails in SA2, I just feel that from a story/concept standpoint shoving him in a walker was a lousy choice.
I kinda agree with this except I don't see a difference in how they handle. To me it's just bad character management: Tails may be a handy man but he is not a mirror to Eggman. He doesn't sit on his butt and let machines do the work for him when it comes to adventuring. Gameplay-wise, I don't have a problem with Tails in SA2, I just feel that from a story/concept standpoint shoving him in a walker was a lousy choice.There's a very noticable difference. With Tails, he always feels clunky and his turns or slow and cumbersome. I mean, they're in giant mechs, but Eggman's is a bit more fluid than Tails.
Then again, she also said not to feed the trolls...
wat u meen?No, I AM.
No, I AM.You're kinda late, he's banned.
(http://games.multimedia.cx/wp-content/uploads/immeen_004.png)
You're kinda late, he's banned.He'll be back. They always do.
Whatever.
Nor do I. I had that game and LOVED IT! <3 The music was awesome too.
Sonic 3D Blast is A DECENT GAME. People hate it because it has a different gameplay from the other titles, but to be perfectly honest, I don't see any flaws with its gameplay.3D blast was interesting. in fact, if you play the hacked game minus the flicky collecting, it feels more like just a 3D sonic.
i still say Sega should come through and finally release Sonic X-treme, just to show up Mario galaxy. I mean come on. That game was so uber trippy. all fish eye lens and stuff.. Hell, Sonic was MADE to counter Mario, why not do so with Mario's latest success?
They can always try! They seem to love making Sonic do everything except being regular ol' sonic, So sonic with a SMG twist would be perfect for them!People complain no matter what they do, so it doesn't really matter what they do.
People complain no matter what they do, so it doesn't really matter what they do.This is a sad but true fact. I wish it wasn't so, but it is. Meh, oh well.
People complain no matter what they do, so it doesn't really matter what they do.Since all they've done lately has been crap, I think it's kind of relevant to complain.
the speed is mainly what's making recent games go out of control with crap.
Thank god I'm not the only person who sees that. Sega's been focusing on OMFG FASTER FASTER FASTER to the detriment of all else. You had to be [tornado fang]ing clairvoyant to finish a stage in Unleashed without dying.Either that, or be one of those whiny people who goes "Oh if you think it sucks it's because you suck at it, lawl!" And then go back to memorizing the routes in the stages obcessively through trial and error.
Or you could just take it slow.But... he's the Flash! :P
I remember games being about loosing before you finally learned what you had to do to win. Trial and error, and well, to a certain extent, strategy. Not be able to just breeze through it in a single take.Those were the good old days, weren't they?
Since all they've done lately has been crap, I think it's kind of relevant to complain.Even if they did make something good, alot of people would still complain not matter what.
But... he's the Flash!Lol, totally forgot bout that for a sec. 8D
:PThose were the good old days, weren't they?Im just saying, is all. I mean, I recall people always complaining about newer Castlevanias "because you can just grind to level up, and how theres no challenge and it doesnt require skill and strategy like the originals because of that"
But the point applies. people used to ENJOY getting their asses handed to them in ames
I've never liked getting my ass handed to me in Ames (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ames,_Iowa), or anywhere for that matter.Lol, oops. ate a letter there.
But the point applies. people used to ENJOY getting their asses handed to them in ames, becuse it made you want to play till you got through the section. The ragequits and all were just part of the experience. Now, one death and people complain the game is flawed, or is too hard. they blame level design, game mechanics, controls, camera, the developers, whatever- Whatever happened to trial and error in videogames?
The patience of gamers these days is either small or nonexistent, sadly enough. The older games like us, Flame, know what it's like to have to go through a challenge (apparently, Nintendo remembers too judging by Grandmaster Galaxy) in order to do something. It's something that the newer generation of gamers knows nothing about due to cookie-cutter licensing and games with the difficulty so low a blind gerbil could beat most of them. It's just part of the sad state of gaming nowadays.
Older? Im not THAT old.indeed. i don't get how one could make that mistake
PB: What I meant was the sad state of difficulty in gaming. Your example regarding SMG2 still being somewhat easy proved it. I miss the days when games tested every facet of your skill with each level.
Lol, totally forgot bout that for a sec. 8DIm just saying, is all. I mean, I recall people always complaining about newer Castlevanias "because you can just grind to level up, and how theres no challenge and it doesnt require skill and strategy like the originals because of that"If I want a challenge, I'll go play Demon's Souls or Ninja Gaiden. If I want to die repeatedly until I memorize all the stupid obstacles in a level I am forced to speed through because this game has no [tornado fang]ing sense of speed or actual design quality. In the first level, a bottomless pit is put right before a bridge, it's near-impossible to see if you're going through the level as fast as you can, and it's in the worst possible place to put a pit. But it's there, and if you fall, you die. Why? Bad level design. Level design is supposed to be logical and be a challenge to you. Not a chore.
Granted, Sonic isnt Castlevania. But the point applies. people used to ENJOY getting their asses handed to them in games, because it made you want to play till you got through the section. The ragequits and all were just part of the experience. Now, one death and people complain the game is flawed, or is too hard. they blame level design, game mechanics, controls, camera, the developers, whatever- Whatever happened to trial and error in videogames?
Granted, Sonic isnt Castlevania. But the point applies. people used to ENJOY getting their asses handed to them in games, because it made you want to play till you got through the section. The ragequits and all were just part of the experience. Now, one death and people complain the game is flawed, or is too hard. they blame level design, game mechanics, controls, camera, the developers, whatever- Whatever happened to trial and error in videogames?
As a guy who loves the likes of "hard-boiled" games like the Rockman Zero series, Viewtiful Joe, God Hand, Earth Defense Force, so many NES classics and even more recently with Bayonetta, I am no stranger to games that pit my abilities to the test.YES. EXACTLY. RIGHT ON THE MONEY. Thank you. And Secret Rings actually showed that it knew how to make "always run"-based gaming. Its only fault was to make the turning so incredibly frustrating.
My only thing? The game needs to deliver on its end, as well. Controls need to be tight. Camera needs to work with me, and not against me. Level/Enemy design should offer a bonafide challenge, without being "cheap". The game mechanics need to all work together for good, such that if/when "death" happens, it's nothing more than MY BAD. I can respect a game that has a propensity to beat my ass 7 ways til Sunday, provided it's done more to be well-made.
THAT is not something that all Sonic games, especially those made in the last decade, can claim. They're NOT well-made games. A number of the errors that have even plagued more recent entrants like Black Knight and Unleashed, have been aspects that have been plauged 3D Sonic games since Adventure. Camera controls, hit detection, level design/enemy placement and then of course....physics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze582VGaAkY&playnext_from=TL&videos=8d6QuyHoLoE
Some thing like the above draws attention to a very thing that has plagued the majority of Sonic games made in the last few years. They're not even trying to make anything close to "momentum-based" speed game play, any more. It's all event-based triggers now. That's why Sonic can just go for a "stroll" in 06/The Fresh One, as you saw demonstrated, and do the "Spider-Hog" act in the Rushes and this leaked footage of Sonic 4 (gifs posted pages ago).
If Sonic Team and Dimps just want to do more to make Sonic into speed-run based "thrill rides" from here on in, they could at least make sure that their games are well made in that area. But they don't even do that much! 8D
::shudders at secret rings rock songs:: Seriously got on my nerves.
I should Get Secret rings one of these days.It's fast, but it's not gameplay-breakingly fast. The jumps are well done since you have to kinda charge them, in a way, and it's a whole different kind of gameplay. There's isn't "platforming", but more of a sense of obstacle course. The homing attacks feel natural and the bosses are fun. Ifrit and Erazor are really good bosses.
::shudders at secret rings rock songs:: Seriously got on my nerves.WHO GONNA ROCK DA PLACE
YES. EXACTLY. RIGHT ON THE MONEY. Thank you. And Secret Rings actually showed that it knew how to make "always run"-based gaming. Its only fault was to make the turning so incredibly frustrating.
::shudders at secret rings rock songs:: Seriously got on my nerves.
MAKE BELIEVES REBORN!
Thats the one! ::runs screaming into the night::
Actually, I had no real problem with turning in Secret Rings. My only issues were moving backwards and grinding on top of the railings. Other than that, I was a huge fan of the game.Seriously? Wouldn't you rather have a... you know... actual d-pad controlling how you moved to the sides? I thought the movement was incredibly annoying in an otherwise decent game.
MAKE BELIEVES REBORN!
Seriously? Wouldn't you rather have a... you know... actual d-pad controlling how you moved to the sides? I thought the movement was incredibly annoying in an otherwise decent game.
Honestly I really had no problem with the movement of it. Just moving backwards.It was very unresponsive when I played it. And annoying in the Erazor fight, when you had to have certain quick reactions.
How dare you! That song is all kinds of awesome.
Not when it plays for the millionth time!! Too much of a good thing makes it bad!You probably just left the main menu open for too long while you browsed for something.
It was very unresponsive when I played it. And annoying in the Erazor fight, when you had to have certain quick reactions.
I still hate the in-game version of Seven Rings In Hand. The guy singing sounds utterly lifeless. At least Gioeli puts his heart into it.
I still hate the in-game version of Seven Rings In Hand. The guy singing sounds utterly lifeless. At least Gioeli puts his heart into it.Are you saying he... opens his heart? 8D
I just used the Time Slow in the Erazor fight. It made it much easier.That doesn't make the responsiveness any less sluggish.
That doesn't make the responsiveness any less sluggish.
Again, it's something I never had a problem with, in the game or the Erazor fight.Well, different people, different experiences, I guess.
Well, different people, different experiences, I guess.
Yeah, it's been said by Ben quite well, but I feel the need to mirror his views. I don't mind getting my ass kicked when I feel like it's my own fault for playing badly. When it's something like a faulty camera that can't even display what I need to focus on properly, then it doesn't quite feel like my fault anymore.With Sonic 4, all they have to do is work within the same principles of the old Sonic games. Sonic is fast, but the game doesn't run on his speed, it runs on platforming through irregular grounds. His speed is used so that some cool sections can be mixed with the platforming, so we have a good challenge, and you can still see everything in front of you. While games like Unleashed and Secret Rings focused more on him always running, the normal formula used through the first game up to Adventure 2 has never been that. It's good, stable platforming action.
That said, as far as Unleashed is concerned, I have more issues with the night levels personally. I can usually react quickly enough in the day stages (not always mind you, some of those spots are devilish) but the night stages had much more annoying elements to me, like the aforementioned camera. I also managed to drown while I was outside of the water a few times, which is kind of a bad thing, wouldn't you say? Stuff like that just kind of turned me off the game, and there was enough instances of defects like that for me.
At least with Sonic 4, they'd have to work extra hard to mess up the camera. It's not beyond their capabilities, mind you, but at least they have one less dimension to worry about. As long as they get the rest of the stuff working well enough that I can't pull stuff like drowning outside the water, I'll probably enjoy this more than some of the more recent outings.
I did like SatSR, though. It's controls could be wonky at times, but it certainly felt more solid overall then some of Sonic's other offerings.
With Sonic 4, all they have to do is work within the same principles of the old Sonic games. Sonic is fast, but the game doesn't run on his speed, it runs on platforming through irregular grounds. His speed is used so that some cool sections can be mixed with the platforming, so we have a good challenge, and you can still see everything in front of you. While games like Unleashed and Secret Rings focused more on him always running, the normal formula used through the first game up to Adventure 2 has never been that. It's good, stable platforming action.Yeah, but it also depends how they limit the speed. Even in the older games, sometimes the game had a hard time keeping up with Sonic if he was going especially fast, particularly if he was Super/Hyper Sonic. I just hope it isn't an issue here.
Yeah, but it also depends how they limit the speed. Even in the older games, sometimes the game had a hard time keeping up with Sonic if he was going especially fast, particularly if he was Super/Hyper Sonic. I just hope it isn't an issue here.The whole point of that was that you were running TOO fast, mostly in automated areas where there wasn't much danger to begin with, and you'd eventually find a spring that would stop you and bring you to a general safezone.
The whole point of that was that you were running TOO fast, mostly in automated areas where there wasn't much danger to begin with, and you'd eventually find a spring that would stop you and bring you to a general safezone.I realize the point... I just hope they don't forget to put that safe zone at the end. Being Dimps, there's a few points in Rush that I seem to recall being like that (been a while since I've played it, mind you, so my memory of it may be a tad flawed). It wasn't always safe in the older games either, as far as the automated sections go. Hydrocity Zone comes to mind. I'm just saying I hope they didn't forget that little detail, and I hope the "camera" follows properly for the most part. Again, I wouldn't put it past them to find a way to mess it up :P
I realize the point... I just hope they don't forget to put that safe zone at the end. Being Dimps, there's a few points in Rush that I seem to recall being like that (been a while since I've played it, mind you, so my memory of it may be a tad flawed). It wasn't always safe in the older games either, as far as the automated sections go. Hydrocity Zone comes to mind. I'm just saying I hope they didn't forget that little detail, and I hope the "camera" follows properly for the most part. Again, I wouldn't put it past them to find a way to mess it up :PStill, the old games had the fact that although you could be really fast with enough momentum, aside from the first levels or so, most areas had enough platforms and obstacles to keep you moving slowly through the whole game. You could move pretty darn fast in certain areas, and use stuff like the spindash to keep you going, but the point remained that although the character had speed, the game wasn't about speed. It was about great platforming. And based on the fact that you didn't attack enemies by pressing an attack button or jumping on them, but by rolling onto them. Making a character attack the second a jump starts was ingenious in the game. That was what the game was based on. And if Dimps are smart, they'll make Sonic 4 about that as well.
You do jump on enemies, though.Yes, but it doesn't require to be with your ass.
VERY doubtful it will be anything that significant.Who knows? Whole game's out of the bag, so they have to change something significant.
also depends really, on what the "feedback" theyre using as a basis is.Pretty much all of the feedback is the same.
im not expecting anything BAD, but not anything big. :P
Adding in a song for Super Sonic. That's it.Hope they fix the non-rotative jumping animation.
Pretty much all of the feedback is the same.Thats the least I heard.
"GREEN EYES BAD REMOVE IT NAU"
Thats the least I heard.So, improving animation and the jumping looks a bit floaty. Other than that, the game itself actually looks pretty good.
I heard more complaints about physics, and how it takes too long to get to his top speed running animation.
for that matter- his top speed running animation is pretty bad.
Agreed. Im eager to play it.I just hope we get a remake in the vein of Rocket Knight, for example. That captured the old feel, and was pretty damn good.
You know what? I just realized something about that little Curve Issue people were talking about quite a while back in the thread, with the curve on the hill that goes straight down. Chaotix had that too, and that game was good, so I don't see why people complain about it so much.I do remember playing Chaotix and thinking it had quite alot of issues, though. The underpopulated labyrinthic levels, for one. And the fact that you could just pick Charmy and fly around looking for the objective. It was a loooooong time ago, though. Wonder if it was emulation issues.
I played Chaotix on an emu not too long ago and if there any issues then i didn't notice them.Then... I guess it wasn't issues, I just didn't like the game. XD
Then... I guess it wasn't issues, I just didn't like the game. XD
Seriously, is Chaotix supposed to be just like that? A bigass labyrinth, you just keep stopping and boosting, no enemies at all, just constant rubber banding? And picking your character through a luck-based setting? O_o
Not luck if you're just awesome at hitting buttons, or if you have the item that lets you pick your characters. Now the stage selecting was completely random, but it didn't really matter.The whole thing just seemed like one big empty place to me. No enemies, no action, no interactible scenery of any sort... Just... racing in this big maze and trying to find a way out. Felt lonely.
(I usually played as Mighty with Knuckles as my partner, Vector, while awesome is too slow to start, Espio is a good replacement for Knuckles, I hate Charmy, and Bomb and Heavy need no Mention.)
You know what? I just realized something about that little Curve Issue people were talking about quite a while back in the thread, with the curve on the hill that goes straight down. Chaotix had that too, and that game was good, so I don't see why people complain about it so much.Any classic game not titled STH1 had Spin Dash, yet people [sonic slicer] about Homing Attack giving you free speed.
Any classic game not titled STH1 had Spin Dash, yet people [sonic slicer] about Homing Attack giving you free speed.You know what's ironic? Nights: Journey of Dreams was actually good by Sonic Team standards. The final level, for example, was slightly playable.
Simply put, people will complain about anything and everything regarding Sonic, regardless of whether or not there is any sense to their criticisms whatsoever (GREEN EYES! YOU BASTARDS! ::) ). That's how it's been ever since Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, quite a ways before we were actually subject to the "horrors" of new-age Sonic Team (and I use that term loosely; having playing NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams, "bad" in the context of Sonic Team has been forever redefined).
I can only imagine our difference in Sonic Team standards stems from my never playing STH2006, because I do not *AT ALL* agree with that.Let's see what they've done.
Any classic game not titled STH1 had Spin Dash, yet people [sonic slicer] about Homing Attack giving you free speed.
There is a difference, though.The Homing Attack isn't a "win button". It's simply a mechanic that helps to play 3D Sonic games.
The spin dash (at least in its proper form from the 16-bit and 8-bit games), was meant to play to Sonic's "pinball" like nature. Classic Sonic, which used to be all about momentum, actually made it believable that Sonic was basically a pinball with legs. In that light, the spin dash was basically akin to having the option to "pull back the lever/flip the flipper" and have an option to get Sonic back to speed.
The Homing Dash, on the other hand, is nothing more than a rather lazy game play mechanic that was designed because Sonic Team likely couldn't be bothered to answer two critical question when it comes to modern Sonic game design: hit detection, and an actual momentum.
The first stance is a "natch" response: Homing Attack is basically a "win button", such that it circumvents a need to actually have to do the work necessary for real hit detection. You hit the button twice, and Sonic will automatically attack whatever the game deems is a "target".
The other stance is another "no [parasitic bomb]" thing. Modern Sonic games are all about speed. So in this era where Sonic can get automatic speed by just pressing a button without even needing to stop, the fact that the Homing Attack is able to help in that same avenue is just another thing that highlights that Sonic is what he is currently.
Again, none of this would be so bad, if Sonic 4 was allowed to actually be a classic-style, momentum based Sonic. The fact that we now have Sonic Colors on the Wii and DS, which both serve to continue the "pure speed" Sonic of the modern day era, seems to defeat the point of Sonic 4 needing a Homing Attack.
The Homing Attack isn't a "win button". It's simply a mechanic that helps to play 3D Sonic games.
In 3D Mario games, the developers thought it necessary to give direct melee/water attacks to Mario, even though many of the common enemies can be defeated by his regular jump. Why didn't they just keep the jump as the only way to defeat them? Because jumping is not so easy in 3D. And aiming your jumps, much less. Sonic attacked most of his enemies by jumping or spinning into them, and back in Sonic Adventure, doing this all the time would be way more frustrating. The homing attack fixed it. It made 3D Sonic playable at high speeds without you having to fall into a pit. Of course, ever since the Adventure games, no game did Homing Attacks well. >_> Which leads me to think it's one of the reasons Sonic games have pretty much sucked lately.
...I can understand your stand that it has no place in 3D Sonic games. But if developers have a chance to make it work, I don't see what the problem is.
The Homing Attack isn't a "win button". It's simply a mechanic that helps to play 3D Sonic games.
In 3D Mario games, the developers thought it necessary to give direct melee/water attacks to Mario, even though many of the common enemies can be defeated by his regular jump. Why didn't they just keep the jump as the only way to defeat them? Because jumping is not so easy in 3D. And aiming your jumps, much less. Sonic attacked most of his enemies by jumping or spinning into them, and back in Sonic Adventure, doing this all the time would be way more frustrating. The homing attack fixed it. It made 3D Sonic playable at high speeds without you having to fall into a pit.
It IS a win button though, in that you can spam it with no real penalty/recoil time in the least. You press the button over and over, while Sonic does things automatically until there's no more targets in his immediate range. 8DSega got around this by placing stuff like the electric shielded enemies and the robots that had shields and needed a summersault to the legs to die. It's not like the homing attack is invincible either. If you use it without aim just to get velocity, you might lose control and fall off whatever platform you're in. If you have any other idea of how to control speedy spin jumps to kill enemies with precision, you have my attention. But as far as I'm concerned, the homing attack is simply a means to play the game, just like the other attacks. SA1 and 2 had levels adapted for the homing attack and Sonic's other abilities. They worked.
At least with the various things that occurred in the 3D Marios, it wasn't so much a "free pass". Melee attacks in 64 required you to get up close and personal, with danger to yourself still present, since Mario didn't have invincibility frames on his moves. FLUDD had, fundamentally speaking, "limited ammunition". The Galaxies had the spin attack which had a "reload" time before you could use it again.
For Homing Attack to be a base ability available to the central character of a platformer without upgrades/power-ups, it's a pretty busted ability, admittedly. And if the best that Sega could do to "account" for the ability is integrate "enemy bridges" as a part of the level design, then that's just another facet that represents something's not quite right with the overall design of the game/games.
If Super Castlevania's "limp whip" isn't immune from this type of critique (and I love that game to pieces), then the Homing Attack certainly is not something that can be ignored either, in my eyes.
If you have any other idea of how to control speedy spin jumps to kill enemies with precision, you have my attention.
That's the thing, though. The way that Sonic was designed in 2D was what made it so that it became even more of a challenge to try and convert him into the 3D realm. What they've been trying to do for the last decade is basically just take some aspects of the 2D formula, focus on the speed portion of that and take into the 3D realm. It hasn't worked nearly as well as it could have, and the Homing Attack, much like every thing else, comes off as a half-assed mechanic that has been allowed to fester for too long.The melee attack wouldn't work well from a gameplay perspective. Remember how most people who can't direct Sonic when playing Brawl, just spin him all over the place, and many times fall off platforms. The homing attack is necessary, because Sonic games have never been about very tough enemies. They've been about straight progression. And no, Sonic is trying to do much more than before. It's the very notion that they haven't been able to make him do more than before, that makes the games bad in the first place. They tried to work weapons into Shadow, sword attacks into Black Knight, and even psychic attacks into Silver's gameplay in 06. But it failed, because Sonic works better as a character of straight progression, and the homing attacks make sense. They've basically like a lock-on mechanism, doesn't mean instant win. He uses it for progression, mostly. You gave an example of Mario and Dante. But it's much different. They don't move at the speed Sonic does, to which would be much difficult to implement a straight combat mechanic that isn't locked on.
To me, the simple answer would have been to take advantage of a model that works: any where from Mario's 3D outings, to Dante in DMC, you get a a good idea of how to adequately control a character in 3D space, with precision AND speed (especially in Dante's case, where going between a multitude of foes, killing them in a speedy fashion is actually part of the game itself).
Since they seem to have a love for making Sonic do things beyond just running and jumping now-a-days any way, I would have thought a well done, easy to grasp melee aspect would have been a part of the mix long before even the likes of the Werehog or Sword-wielding reared its head (and doing it poorly, no less). The way Sonic performs in Brawl is pretty much how I could have imagined some thing of this sort employed in the actual games a long time ago. Bonus points if they could have integrated Sonic's some what playful/daredevil nature into such a thing, like the anime-cuts in Sonic CD seemed to hint at.
If they really wanted 3D/new-style Sonic to be different beast altogether (much like 3D Mario is to its 2D counter-part), they should have taken advantage of the new medium as a way for Sonic to do things he couldn't do in the 2D space, and furthermore, things that could ONLY work in the 3D realm. But more than a decade after Sonic has "officially" come into the 3D reality, and he's STILL trying to do a lot of the exact same things as before.
So, I can't stress it enough: Sega has done a lot to undermine the potential that Sonic could have had in the 3D arena. But it is what it is, at this point.
The melee attack wouldn't work well from a gameplay perspective. Remember how most people who can't direct Sonic when playing Brawl, just spin him all over the place, and many times fall off platforms.
The homing attack is necessary, because Sonic games have never been about very tough enemies. They've been about straight progression. And no, Sonic is trying to do much more than before. It's the very notion that they haven't been able to make him do more than before, that makes the games bad in the first place.
You gave an example of Mario and Dante. But it's much different. They don't move at the speed Sonic does, to which would be much difficult to implement a straight combat mechanic that isn't locked on.
Sonic may not be the best character in vBrawl (in Brawl+ and Brawl-, that's another story! 8D), but the basic thing that any body who dares to main him could say? You don't try to spin all over the place. You use Sonic's speed, range and array of attacks to your advantage in a fashion that allows him to "hit and away", frustrating the opposition because a good Sonic should rarely be cornered, much less actually be hit. I at least believe Sonic controlled well, in that game.Being a fighting game, is requires a bit of a learning curve to use him like that. As in said, the homing attack was a simple and direct option which felt comfortable from the start.
Incorrect statement in my eyes, and I'll tell you why.Of course the quality control in Sega sucks. And of course Sega prefers to quickly make the team work on a completely different game rather than actually explore the underlying problem. Mostly because Sonic Team is pretty much ran like a sweatshop of Sonic games, and there's no quality control to speak of, so they'd rather make constant new types of Sonic games so they don't manage to get a bad rep from their previous failed gameplay mechanics.
The notion that Sonic that has been doing more than ever is NOT what's inherently wrong. It's actually based on the notion that Sega has been forcing Sonic to wear so many hats, with no real rhyme+reason to go along with it.
Pretty much every "gimmicky" thing that Sonic has had in his games from these last few years, from the extra play-styles/characters in the Adventures, the "Teams" in Heroes, to the Werehog and Sword-wielding in his most recent offerings, has NOT been given the kind of quality control that it could have been. And that is where the problem lies. Nothing is giving the time it needs to truly develop, and Sega is just as quick to force the team to focus on some new gimmick for a new game.
Case in point: they were quoted on saying that "we'd be seeing more of the Werehog". Well...here are, with yet another Sonic release, and the Werehog has yet to be seen (and likely won't be) in Sonic Colors, which focuses on yet ANOTHER set of gimmicks.
Again, I think the main thing is that it's a challenge unto itself to ascertain just how "difficult" it would be, until it was placed in the hands of a more competent development team with a decent amount of dev. time to its credit. Even Sonic Team was capable of some definite good ideas, such as the "Bounce" ability that Sonic had in SA2/Battle. In my opinion, it was a good answer to Mario's "Butt Stomp", as well as an ability that guaranteed how Sonic would move in a 3D space: straight up, straight down, unless there was other DI from the user. You can't get too much more precise than that, and control of Sonic remained firmly in your hands, and not trusted to the lock-on attributes predetermined by the game itself.The bounce ability was good, and yes, it could have been vastly improved. But in no way it could have replaced the homing attack. You gotta see, Sonic games were NEVER about fighting enemies. They're about when to know when to spin so you don't lose any rings when you collide with this or that guy. Since all enemies except bosses can traditionally go down with a single blow. And since enemies with spiky backs and such can't be taken out with the attack. In works in a gameplay perspective, so why get rid of it? It doesn't make the game harder or easier, just... playable.
That's a basic ability that could have been honed over games, and served to develop Sonic's own moveset that much more. But...wouldn't you know? It was taken away, and later replaced with other things by the very next game... -u-'
I'm just gonna side with Flash on this point; the point of Sonic has, and always will be, speed.
Whatever. Then that's my point.I said the opposite. =P The point of Sonic is supposed to be good platforming. But when it comes to enemies, you're supposed to blaze through them, not fight them directly. They're obstacles more than enemies.
I think you've got it about right.I don't think constant speed should be part of it. The original Sonic games didn't require speed in most parts, and the parts that HAD speed, came between others, and were a bit autopiloted. I think Sonic should have speed, but it should be a kind of speed ala Sonic Adventure. Speedy character, with no need to always be racing in a direction. He runs, he jumps, he goes from platform to platform, just like other platforming characters. Only he's faster.
I honestly feel that you should have to earn, as it were, your speed in a Sonic game; it should be something that you work for, carefully dodging enemies and traps, so you can keep up that sense of speed for as long as possible. The boost button was a nice gimmick, but if you can boost to top speed almost whenever you like, there's no real sense of minor pride compared to when you reach yoru top acceleration by running and running and dodging and running and looping and running some more.
Just my two cents, anyway.
I said the opposite. =P The point of Sonic is supposed to be good platforming. But when it comes to enemies, you're supposed to blaze through them, not fight them directly. They're obstacles more than enemies.One does well to know this before playing Black Knight. I took notice in the video review Matt stops to jump and attack every single enemy. Sure, many may feel that impulse, but sooner or later you have to let it go. Otherwise, you're just robbing yourself.
I honestly feel that you should have to earn, as it were, your speed in a Sonic gameSee, this is why we can't have a nice Super Sonic. Or spin-dash.
So, yeah. Nights sucked, but at least it wasn't marred with bugs. It just... sucked. The controls for the flying portions were okay, but the key-nabbing was stupid. Still, it was a bit fun to fly around in a few levels. Kids' gameplay WAS HORRIBLE. Specially for the fact that it was forced on us, unlike the original Nights.(http://home.comcast.net/~Anguirus/objection.gif)
One does well to know this before playing Black Knight. I took notice in the video review Matt stops to jump and attack every single enemy. Sure, many may feel that impulse, but sooner or later you have to let it go. Otherwise, you're just robbing yourself.First off, you may not be able to destroy every single enemy, but all GOOD Sonic games provide you with the possibility of tearing apart every single enemy and still maintaining your speed.
And believe me, I am a "jump in and destroy crap" gamer through and through. But that's simply not what Sonic is. In fact game mechanics which force this tend to be the lower points of their respective titles (Heroes and to a lesser extent Rush are guilty of this).
See, this is why we can't have a nice Super Sonic. Or spin-dash.
Not saying the constant high speed at the expense of everything else is a good thing. I'm just saying, STH1 is not the high point of Sonic's career.
(http://home.comcast.net/~Anguirus/objection.gif)
Which controller are you using? Because I guarantee you the Wii remote will scar you for life in that game. It is horribly, horribly broken beyond what any Sonic game I've played has ever seen.
That and frankly I was fed up with the forced gimmicks even before I reached the kids. I mean, NiGHTS transforming into a boat? Nevermind the fact that it handles like a barrel of molasses.
First off, you may not be able to destroy every single enemy, but all GOOD Sonic games provide you with the possibility of tearing apart every single enemy and still maintaining your speed.BK is no different in that respect, you're simply wise to wait until the late-game before attempting, when your abilities better allow it. It's certainly no more offensive than Secret Rings' level system.
And I don't think ANYONE would be crazy enough to use a Wiimote in the game without at least the Nunchuck.There's always somebody crazy/stupid enough. In this case, me.
BK is no different in that respect, you're simply wise to wait until the late-game before attempting, when your abilities better allow it. It's certainly no more offensive than Secret Rings' level system.Only games aren't meant to be enjoyed only when playing them for the second time flawlessly. They're meant to be enjoyed with intuitive controls and method of play. I'm not gonna try and search for a way to play this game "which the developers intended" just so it doesn't run like crap when I play it. It's supposed to be intuitive and the player needs to be able to do it in his first try, no matter how incredibly tough it might be. It just needs to be possible.
There's always somebody crazy/stupid enough. In this case, me.99,9% of the time, the new setups never work as well as the original ones. Nights, for those who played the original, is a game about precision of flight. It's THE game that got Sega to make their very first analog stick controller. Needless to say, without an analog stick, it's like playing Mario Galaxy, only he moves where you tell him to go when you point at the screen. In trailers and gameplay demos, they never showed the wiimote-only setup. And they intended the game to be played with a Gamecube controller, originally, like SSBB. Trying to play Street Fighter in, say, the 360's d-pad and then saying it's bad gameplay just because it's an option, it's not exactly the way to go. It's an option, yes. But it's seriously not the way to play the game itself.
Here's the thing, there are certain genres which I believe to be naturally geared towards classic controllers, ie most fighting games, so I'm not of the mentality that all Wii games need some bizarre motion control setup. But I like to use the new setups when possible, if they feel as though they belong (Mario Kart). NiGHTS, I have no prior experience with (which is sad to say; I'd REALLY love to play the original), but based on concept alone there's no reason the Wii remote shouldn't work. Sega just implemented it in ways that are horrendously sucktacular beyond any words I can possibly offer. They failed to do that which the FREAKING SYSTEM MENU does, for crying out loud.
There is no other game I have played, ever, where "controller functionally works" is in my list of things they could have done differently. And believe me, I have embraced games that have some pretty bad bugs in them. Journey of Dreams is simply inexcusable.
I didn't get very far into knights. Does the gameplay change or something? What I did play seemed to work fine, I just got bored with it. I used the wiimote only setup. is it bad? If it is, how so?Yes, it's not really supposed to be played that way. Nights is the game for which the Saturn analog controller was invented, so there you have it. It's THE analog stick game.
Only games aren't meant to be enjoyed only when playing them for the second time flawlessly. They're meant to be enjoyed with intuitive controls and method of play. I'm not gonna try and search for a way to play this game "which the developers intended" just so it doesn't run like crap when I play it. It's supposed to be intuitive and the player needs to be able to do it in his first try, no matter how incredibly tough it might be. It just needs to be possible.It's very well possible, just not as fast or easy as later. People in BK make the mistake of constantly approaching enemies with jump attacks, which is great when you need the timing or the change of angle, but not for EVERY SINGLE SCHMUCK TO CRAWL OUT OF THE GROUND. If the player can't get the lunge attack through their head, that's their own problem.
99,9% of the time, the new setups never work as well as the original ones.Metroid Prime, Mario Kart Wii, Godzilla Unleashed, Mario Power Tennis, Zelda...
It's very well possible, just not as fast or easy as later. People in BK make the mistake of constantly approaching enemies with jump attacks, which is great when you need the timing or the change of angle, but not for EVERY SINGLE SCHMUCK TO CRAWL OUT OF THE GROUND. If the player can't get the lunge attack through their head, that's their own problem.You're missing my point. Black Knight is a BAD game. With gameplay and levels unfitting to a subtile, always moving level design. Flailing the controller around works for 90% of the time, whe main story can be finished in aproximately
Furthermore, those playing at a relaxed pace will find themselves rebounding off of homing attacks and doing their actual swing on the next bounce. It's a nice way to learn the ropes, but if you're actually quick, you can swing mid-homing attack, which cuts down on your time drastically and keeps up your momentum.
By your own words, tough but possible.
One usually does not attempt a stylized run in their first playthrough, though. The established mechanics of Sonic games only allow killing enemies while keeping up speed providing said enemies are sparse. Pick any instance in SA2 where two enemies appear side-by-side, especially if both are shielded, and you're not killing both without stopping. If you don't want to stop, you kill one and keep going. The same applies applies to 2D games with multiple airborne foes, you need to slow down to bounce on every one, or just pass them by and enjoy the fact that you danced around them. Black Knight is the same deal.
Metroid Prime, Mario Kart Wii, Godzilla Unleashed, Mario Power Tennis, Zelda...Not forsaking the new for the established? I am. And quite alot. Motion play games should be games that work BETTER in motion play, not worse. Not ONE of those games works as well as its counterpart. Only Metroid Prime, and it's only because its predecessors used a dumb lock-on feature to point at things instead of actually using a functional second analog stick for camera. Zelda is a specially dumb game to apply those mechanics to, seeing as the sword swinging lagged a bit in comparison to actual button imput, and to apply targeting, the entire game had to be mirrored. If we were talking about games like Resi 4, which improved with the Wii aiming, then sure. But I think new control schemes should be used when they work BETTER in the game. Sega's Wiimote-only control was bad, and it should have been simply scrapped to begin with, since pretty much everyone with a Wii should have a nunchuck. I am not arguing if it was or not completely abysmal. But heck, if people play the game like that and SEE it's abysmal, why not try the other controller setting? Seems dumb to carry on such a thing. I never spent more than 5 seconds with the setting.
Hey, I'm not above forsaking the new for the established. Besides the obvious Brawl, the lack of a traditional control option is one of my most major complaints against Star Fox Command. But if the Wii taught me anything it's that, most of the time, which input device is better suited is up to personal preference.
But you're confusing my complaint. I'm not saying that the pointer is ill-suited for NiGHTS. If that was my problem I'd happily switch controllers. What I'm saying is that it damn well could have, and should have, worked, but Sega did a horrendously bad job of programming it. It's not a matter of how well the setup fits the genre, the pointer in the game is functionally flawed, and severely so. A failing such as poor fit (ie: remote-only in Brawl) merely encourages one to try something else. A functional flaw, however, severely damages one's confidence in the game. And when I'm looking at huge messes of jaggies and some damn boat gimmick being forced to interrupt my flight, that doesn't help any, not leaving me terribly tempted to find a work-around (maybe I will one day when I'm bored enough, but I don't see that day coming any time soon). Even if I do see how much fun the core mechanics can be, and I do, there are simply too many failings that need to be dodged or drudged through for me to consider it worthwhile.
Not forsaking the new for the established? I am. And quite alot. Motion play games should be games that work BETTER in motion play, not worse. Not ONE of those games works as well as its counterpart. Only Metroid Prime, and it's only because its predecessors used a dumb lock-on feature to point at things instead of actually using a functional second analog stick for camera. Zelda is a specially dumb game to apply those mechanics to, seeing as the sword swinging lagged a bit in comparison to actual button imput, and to apply targeting, the entire game had to be mirrored. If we were talking about games like Resi 4, which improved with the Wii aiming, then sure. But I think new control schemes should be used when they work BETTER in the game.
I disagree actually, and I think this is a case of different strokes for different folks. With Mario Kart Wii, I tried all the controller options and the best one IMO is the MoteChuk combo, because not only is the Analog stick not as precise as the Nunchuks, but it's easier to do the tricks with the simple flick of the Wiimote. With Zelda, I had no problem swinging the Wiimote like a sword, but the true beauty of it came from shooting the bow and arrow, which is far superior with the Wiimote than the GC Controller IMO. Never played the other ones, so I can't judge those.I actually forgot the archery in the Wii Zelda. But I was actually refering to the Wiimote-only option in Mario Kart, which is definetly not as precise as the regular one. And my complaint stems merely from games which replace button presses with waggle.
I actually forgot the archery in the Wii Zelda. But I was actually refering to the Wiimote-only option in Mario Kart, which is definetly not as precise as the regular one. And my complaint stems merely from games which replace button presses with waggle.
or actually try to improve any of their game mechanics by a tiny bit. Playing it "well" is ahdering to the developer's little world of getting used to a game awkwardness in every single way instead of the opposite.I've said it many times and I'll say it again, it's control-wise a VAST improvement over Secret Rings. No matter how awkward you might think of a sword as being in a Sonic game, Brake buttons, charge jumps, and reverse-tilting are a lot worse. And I actually do like Secret Rings, so, yeah. Black Knight, to me, is an extremely solid title. Not flawless, but definitely among Sonic Team's more enjoyable and consistent games.
using a functional second analog stick for camera."First person adventure." This is why I hate actual FPSes. And to a lesser extent Hunters.
Zelda is a specially dumb game to apply those mechanics to, seeing as the sword swinging lagged a bit in comparison to actual button imputPersonal preference. Lag-adjustment is simple, and it's more immersive. I will concede, however, that thrusting should not involve an analogue stick. That's launch-itis for you.
and to apply targeting, the entire game had to be mirrored.I don't buy that as anything but a "quick and dirty" solution, since mirroring a character without mirroring the world should be plenty possible. I also don't give a damn, because:
But heck, if people play the game like that and SEE it's abysmal, why not try the other controller setting? Seems dumb to carry on such a thing.If that were my only problem with the game, fine. But it's more of a "last nail in the coffin" thing. There's plenty else wrong with it. And I know from reading rants that there's plenty MORE wrong with it that I have yet to experience. I'm not exactly willing to kick myself in the ass to endure that when I have other games sitting around unfinished.
Personal preference.
I think this sums up every argument anyone has here nicely, since this is what it all comes down to. And I've seen a lot of I LIKE THIS! I HATE THAT! WELL I LIKE IT! TOO BAD IT SUCKS I HATE IT! and so on and so forth.
It worked like a race track, you did small jumps for small obstacles, and big jumps for big obstacles. What was wrong with that?Sliding around prior to any significant jump (the need for short hops is pretty rare) gets old very fast. It means you must slow or stop virtually every time you want to take to the air. Frankly, it feels intrusive. For all the bitching any other Sonic game gets about any gimmick whatsoever interrupting speed, the Secret Ring's charge jump is the among the most frequent and awkward interruptions. It didn't stop me from enjoying the game, but it never once felt natural.
Not to mention extra characters didn't make much sense to begin with. And not much change, either. Why do you even want extra characters?Two words: CHAOS PUNISHMENT!!!
The nunchuck imput didn't only not feel natural at all, but also it didn't register all the time when you tried to do it by impulse.I laugh at your weakness the same as I laugh at that of people who can't make Godzilla pick up a building. You are most likely positioning the controller incorrectly. Your shield is not a sword, ie, you should not be making a stab motion.
but I was only making the point that compared to some other Sonic Team effortsSonic Team is usually better about control inputs. And visuals. And voice acting. And while they plague Sonic games with unrelated play styles that only serve to bog down the player, I have yet to see the Sonic gimmick that is more offensive than boat-NiGHTS. And this before I even *REACHED* the children segments.
So just do yourself a favor and find a way to play the original Nights.Believe me, I want to, but Saturn emulation is hell. PS2 remake may not be a bad idea, I already have a swap-disc for Namco X Capcom. Poking around moonspeak menus isn't my favorite thing in the world, though.
Why does anyone play as Luigi, Toad, or Peach in SMB USA?
About my "fetish", quotes are simply a way of specifying what I'm referring to. It's no different than any other response, except in a discussion of multiple points, it makes things easier to follow. If you don't want to use them that's your business, but what you have against others using them is beyond me. And believe me, Marshmallow Man surpasses me in this regard.Loosen up, man. I'm kidding around with you. =P Just makes it a bit more difficult to reply to your stuff.
Sliding around prior to any significant jump, which is what you do far more often than your hops, gets very very old. It means you must slow or stop virtually every time you want to take to the air. Frankly, it feels intrusive. And it doesn't even matter that the late-game lets you disable it, because most of the levels are impossible to clear without it.
Not arguing with homing attacks or bosses. Much as I like Dark Queen, Secret Rings has a nice selection there.
Two words: CHAOS PUNISHMENT!!!
Seriously, why does anyone play as Tails or Knuckles in S3&K? Why does anyone play as Luigi, Toad, or Peach in SMB USA? Because they can, because they want to, because it adds replay value when differing characters fit within the same play style with only minor tweaks. That is the only reason they need, that is the only reason they SHOULD have. Sega's failure to realize this has bitten them in the ass on more than a few occasions.
I laugh at your weakness the same as I laugh at that of people who can't make Godzilla pick up a building. You are most likely positioning the controller incorrectly. Your shield is not a sword, ie, you should not be making a stab motion.
Sonic Team is usually better about control inputs. And visuals. And voice acting. And while they plague Sonic games with unrelated play styles that only serve to bog down the player, I have yet to see the Sonic gimmick that is more offensive than boat-NiGHTS. And this before I even *REACHED* the children segments.
Believe me, I want to, but Saturn emulation is hell. PS2 remake may not be a bad idea, I already have a swap-disc for Namco X Capcom. Poking around moonspeak menus isn't my favorite thing in the world, though.
- Unlockable characters with no specific gameplay changes aside from a few things few people care are not extra characters that matter in the least.This is why we can't have a decent Tails. Or Super Sonic.
- Have you considered that special detail in whatever motion you make is kinda stupid to specify when you suddenly want to press an imput in the blink of an eye?When the same device controls your spin-attacks? Absolutely not. Two actions to the same motion sensor mandates that a specific motion is required. And the setup is perfectly logical. A broad-side smack for hitting with the shield, and a random shake/swing for the spin attack (another thing I like, quick-spin is actually reliable). I see no issue whatsoever. Helm Splitter is my favorite attack in the game.
voice acting.Didn't say it was epic, I said it was better than NiGHTS. That's like saying any given cartoon is better than Sonic Underground.
Sonic 06Lacking a 360/PS3 makes that difficult. Even so, you can at best hope to promote NiGHTS to 2nd worst new-age Sonic Team effort. And given how many Sonic projects have been churned out, that's still saying an awful lot as to how horrid NiGHTS is.
As for boat-Nights, what bothered you about that? I think it was actually a fish-Nights, and he transforms automatically the moment you touch water.I am not in the LEAST referring to NiGHTS's forms. I'm referring to a specific stage where you are required to navigate NiGHTS down a river. Control in said stage is a nightmare, regardless of input device. I can only hope your lack of recollection means it is not seen again, but frankly, once is too many.
Naturally (actually I'm more of a Peach/Luigi person, but moving on...). I'm just saying, as much as people like the title character, sometimes they also enjoy the supporting cast. And it in no way whatsoever is, and in fact probably shouldn't be, because they play in some ass-backwards style that cannot possibly be reconciled with that of the title character's stage layout. Same applies to required replays.
This is why we can't have a decent Tails. Or Super Sonic.- And yes. Well, Super Sonic actually worked alright in Sonic Adventure 2's last battle. If they mapped the up and down to either a right analog stick or the A/Y buttons (ala Zone of the Enders), it would have been perfect. Tails is a bit trickier, since we know he can't fly forever.
When the same device controls your spin-attacks? Absolutely not. Two actions to the same motion sensor mandates that a specific motion is required. And the setup is perfectly logical. A broad-side smack for hitting with the shield, and a random shake/swing for the spin attack (another thing I like, quick-spin is actually reliable). I see no issue whatsoever. Helm Splitter is my favorite attack in the game.
Didn't say it was epic, I said it was better than NiGHTS. That's like saying any given cartoon is better than Sonic Underground.
Lacking a 360/PS3 makes that difficult. Even so, you can at best hope to promote NiGHTS to 2nd worst new-age Sonic Team effort. And given how many Sonic projects have been churned out, that's still saying an awful lot as to how horrid NiGHTS is.
I am not in the LEAST referring to NiGHTS's forms. I'm referring to a specific stage where you are required to navigate NiGHTS down a river. Control in said stage is a nightmare, regardless of input device. I can only hope your lack of recollection means it is not seen again, but frankly, once is too many.
Still not as bad as Shadow was.I resent that. Shadow is a solid game that needed only a few minor tweaks to be much better. Two main issues are that missions are overly strict (artificial Chaos hunting is a pain in the ass), and the last boss split doubling the number of possible endings was sheer lunacy. It's not a bad game, it's just laid out in such a way that you'll be damn sick of it by the time you get to the Last Story. But it beats the hell out of Heroes.
Voice actingShadow, Sonic, Amy, and Blaze are fine. Tails and Knux take a *LOT* of getting used to; they've both seen better days. But since Sega keeps shafting Tails anyway, I'm sorry to say it's not very noticeable.
Naturally (actually I'm more of a Peach/Luigi person, but moving on...). I'm just saying, as much as people like the title character, sometimes they also enjoy the supporting cast. And it in no way whatsoever is, and in fact probably shouldn't be, because they play in some ass-backwards style that cannot possibly be reconciled with that of the title character's stage layout. Same applies to required replays.
I resent that. Shadow is a solid game that needed only a few minor tweaks to be much better. Two main issues are that missions are overly strict (artificial Chaos hunting is a pain in the ass), and the last boss split doubling the number of possible endings was sheer lunacy. It's not a bad game, it's just laid out in such a way that you'll be damn sick of it by the time you get to the Last Story. But it beats the hell out of Heroes.Shadow is better than Heroes? SHADOW is better than Heroes. One of the very worst games I've ever played, that pretty much DEFINES the sense of "bad game" in itself, and which I have a hard time figuring out if it's worse than Sonic 06 or not, is "better than Heroes"? Shadow isn't a "game" most of the time. It's a buggy mess, with the worst convulted mixed styles of gameplay I've ever seen. In a game where you mix the very worst of Heroes, put in the very WORST gun mechanics you can ever see, make two special attacks which GO AGAINST THE VERY OBJECTIVES OF THE GAME, and then strike out on pretty much everything I've ever seen, from bad graphics, bad gameplay, level design which sends you spiraling in insanity, vehicle gameplay which is THE WORSE I have ever seen... The game forces you to NOT attack CERTAIN enemies, while your character is someone whose gun and homing attack aim automatically to the closest enemy and who is attacked BY ALL ENEMIES EQUALLY. You have to HUNT for stuff in linear-speed based levels as you main objective! And the backtracking way they chose forces you not just to have to hit every single checkpoint, but to go through ENTIRE levels all over again just because you didn't open a crate which was in a corner at the beginning. Oh, and for enemy kill selection what better special attack then something that kills everything? Or for hunting something in the game, in special, what better way to proceed through the level than to speed through it and just not give a [parasitic bomb]? I have literally never, ever, EVER seen a game in my entire life that mixes in so many gameplay styles that don't make sense at all, and in which fighting against the GAMEPLAY the game has given you is harder, and you do it more often, than playing the game itself. The game has a story that makes no sense most of the time, Shadow has a laughably bad attitude "It's like taking candy from a baby, WHICH IS FINE BY ME BY THE WAY I AM SO EDGY", the whole thing goes on like a Jeph Loeb storyline, causing more and more stupidity to happen to what Sonic Adventure 2 was as a story (not to mention that game's graphics were better than this one), and by far, before Sonic 06 had come out, I considered this the worst game I had ever played. At least Sonic 06 had a good gameplay basis on the 3 main characters, discounting the bullshit moves and the vehicles. Shadow is just flawed all the way. I can't see one single redeeming feature. And I can't possibly stop thinking that if you played Sonic 06 you'd probably also like it.
Shadow, Sonic, Amy, and Blaze are fine. Tails and Knux take a *LOT* of getting used to; they've both seen better days. But since Sega keeps shafting Tails anyway, I'm sorry to say it's not very noticeable.
Funny you mention Eggman; he's decent, but the Adventure 2 voice is superior.
*rant*Now you know how I feel about Journey of Dreams. I think we're done.
Now you know how I feel about Journey of Dreams. I think we're done.I explained why every single thing about the game is bad. You failed to do that, and just went "OMG BOAT AND UNCOMFORTABLE CONTROL SCHEME". Opinions? I think not.
Flashy, backing personal opinion by whatever facts you choose does not change the fact that it is still personal opinion. I can come up with a rather massive checklist of what is wrong with MegaMan X5, that does not make it factually the worst game. All games have high and low points, and the weight each carries is subjective.Oh, I love this. The "Everything is an opinion" argument. Of course, backing up my argument with facts doesn't make it any less of an opinion. The same as a game, when it's filled with bugs, it doesn't mean it's bad, it's simply my opinion that it's bad and unplayable. Some people may like the bugs. Some people may even like the bugs better than good games. Are the game's graphics bad? Who knows? There are people who LOVE blurry textures and constant clip-ins. I mean, there's probably a legion of people out there who consider Big Rigs the best game ever. And do I have the right to argue if it's a good game or not? Of course NOT! Because everything is an opinion! There are no truths or falsities to quality, everything is subjective. Everything is measured by the individual. Gameplay not suiting the levels? Game being the exact opposite of the example for good level design? It doesn't matter. I'll eat my [parasitic bomb], and I'll say it's better than your caviar. And you can't say a damn thing about it because it's "my opinion". Hahahaha.
If I felt like tearing that post apart, I can; in fact I spotted a rather glaring misconception in there well before I was finished reading. But the difference between you and me, is that when I criticize a game which you consider "bad" but not "that bad", you actually give a damn. I'm not going to go into a wall of text and the dreaded quote tags over a game that, regardless of any redeeming points which I may see and you do not, will still inevitably be shelved for any game of either the Adventures or Storybook series. Shadow is my idea of mediocrity, not success.
But don't be a pompous ass. Nobody likes that.
I'm playing Sonic Mega Collection. =3c
And Flash, you honestly wonder why I don't care to argue with you after a post like that? When you completely ignore the rationale behind the post you're responding to and pad your response with three paragraphs of sarcasm? "Some people may enjoy bugs", although ironically enough a valid statement (ie: small fireballs in Super Mario Bros.), is in no way whatsoever relevant to my previous post.And yet you pursue this line of thinking. My racionale was basically split between two: The chance to show you how much I loathe it when people turn to the "everything is opinions" matter when they just don't feel like replying consistingly to something else, and just purely and simply having fun. (Although I did have a fantastic laugh about the exception to the rule of bugs. It's like saying some guy in Nigeria has a [parasitic bomb]-eating fetish, so my "likes eating [parasitic bomb]" is actually credible)
Exchanging opinions is in no way an invalid form of discussion, and if you knew jack about me you'd have found far more plausible means to try and mock me (ask Zan, Marshmallow Man, PB, Ben, and hell the list goes on). It is generally valuable and informative to explore viewpoints outside of your own, regardless of whether or not they alter your ultimate conclusion. You just happen to suck at it. When you degrade into constant mockery of your discussion partner and your "evidence" consists mostly of Appeal to Ridicule, the discussion ceases to be productive.
"It is generally valuable and informative to explore viewpoints outside of your own, regardless of whether or not they alter your ultimate conclusion."
"You just happen to suck at it. When you degrade into constant mockery of your discussion partner and your "evidence" consists mostly of Appeal to Ridicule, the discussion ceases to be productive."
God, this thread is a [tornado fang]ing train wreck. Where's my popcorn?Yes, but isn't it a beautiful one? :V
I explained why every single thing about the game is bad.
Only 472 words? That's not very convincing coming from someone with your track record of complaining.I complain about bad games and give good reasons for it. People then come to me and tell me I'm wrong without even explaining why. The [tornado fang] am I supposed to do, tell everyone I'm sorry and pretend to enjoy their crappy game? I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me or even debate. I just think it's bullshit to leave it on "you're doing childish bickering and I'm mature. Why? I don't have to explain [parasitic bomb]" terms.
\Which you pretty much have failed to do, because you've looked at my arguments as to what caused Shadow to be a bad game, and you fled into "everyone has opinions" with your tail between your legs.In no small part because that's the point at which you stopped discussing and started ranting (second reason, which you missed, will be presented two paragraphs down). Yes, you presented your failures with the game, but it was laced with bitching and moaning over my audacity to enjoy the game more than Heroes (this is not saying much, btw; I do not think highly of Heroes). When you whine, people don't want to talk to you, deal with it.
In no small part because that's the point at which you stopped discussing and started ranting (another reason will be presented two paragraphs down). Yes, you presented your failures with the game, but it was laced with bitching and moaning over my audacity to enjoy the game more than Heroes (this is not saying much, btw; I do not think highly of Heroes). When you whine, people don't want to talk to you, deal with it.Finally hit the button, huh? And you couldn't even keep it in PMs either, like I asked. Alright, alright. Let's get on with the spectacle, then.
Since you're so adamant about this, I'll grant your wish and pick up where I left off, all without any further quote tags. But before I do, some clarification of earlier statements:
You misunderstood me when I mentioned lacking the urge to continue a discussion based on a game I would shelf in favor of Adventures/Storybook. I was referring to Shadow, not to NiGHTS JoD. See, I don't think Shadow is THAT great, but I don't think it's THAT bad either, and I can see how some minor tweaks would have made it much better (ease up the mission restrictions and eliminate the final boss split, offering 5 more mission-free stages instead of only one). If I'm going to read and write walls of text to defend a game, I'd frankly rather be defending a great game, not a mediocre game. I don't particularly care if you don't appreciate a "so-so" game. So I wasn't terribly motivated to defend Shadow.
The misconception I noted earlier was your citing an alleged need to avoid killing particular enemies. That's not the case unless you're one enemy away from completing a mission which you don't want to. When you spend that amount of time complaining about a nonissue, it says that you are not well educated about the game you're complaining about. This is, incidentally, why I don't go into terrible detail with my complaints against JoD, I haven't been able to put up with it long enough to reach my second boss fight. I realize that I could stand to educate myself further, but it takes a LOT for me to drop a title that early; the only other game to hold a candle to that level of badness in its early impressions is the GBC Animorphs game. And I know there are many with more patience than I who have found much more to complain about in the late-game of JoD, so it is not terribly encouraging for me to drudge through what I already find a fun-sucking husk of a disc in order to find out.
Visuals? Ironic complaint given your defense of JoD, one of the jaggiest titles I've seen. But I won't argue against that; you'll never catch me defending the visuals of any Sonic Team title in the period between SA2 and Secret Rings.
Missions, I conceded, were tedious and overly strict. However I do find you to blow it out of proportion a little, both due to the above enemy misconception, and the fact that missions basically exist only to unlock stuff. You can free play from the menu and never worry about them.
Dialogue? Absolutely and totally cheesy. That's why it's enjoyable, because it's laughable in that MST3K kind of way. I mean, how do you not smile at, "Where's that DAMN fourth Chaos Emerald?" I'm glad future games did not continue along this route, but it was fun as a one shot deal, and I will take it over Heroes beating you over the head with child cliches (Because...we're Sonic Heroes! *shudder*)
Shooting, assuming we MUST put up with it, is presented as it should be: a tack-on. It's a side item to the main platforming focus. Shadow is unusual in that its gimmick doesn't completely override the platforming formula to the point of being utterly incompatible with it and resulting in an alternate play mode that gets more focus than the proper hedgehog action (read: Werehog), and it's a lot less intrusive than Hereos' character formations.
You flipped out when I compared it to Heroes, apparently thinking that I thought highly of Heroes. I don't. It has its strong points, most any Sonic Team effort (yes, even JoD) does, but it's on the lower end of the spectrum to me. Visuals are as bad as Shadow, team difference is negligible, and the sheer number of mandatory maneuvers makes the game as a whole feel cluttered and lacking focus. Oh yes, and it introduced us to the wonderful concept of non-boss enemy HP counters, something which to this day I maintain does not belong in a Sonic game (you hit them once, they die, you move on; that's the way it should be).
I thought both games where equally [parasitic bomb]. I didn't finish either games because in my eyes they where broken. Also Heroes is one of only two game discs that I have broken out of frustration. I got an ending in Shadow but when I realized how hard it would have been to only shoot certain guys I said "F this" and traded it.Red Lantern rage? I call it clarity.
This thread is the finest display of Sophistry I've ever seen.It really is. >0<
team difference is negligible,
Sdonic heroes is ok for a game that has the same levels for all teams, why couldn't they go back and simply use Sonic Adventure 1 type of gameplay? Get rid of Shadow, we are done with him.Funnily enough, as clichéd as it was, Sonic Adventure 2 actually had a pretty decent story. And Shadow's death had MEANING, since that was pretty much the only thing he was made for. To protect the earth. Since he fulfilled his duty, what the hell is he still doing alive? New games show him working for GUN, which is the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever heard (since they, you know, KILLED the only person he cared for >_>;; ) But I guess he was simply brought back because the whiny hordes of fans loved him and he needed to be in Heroes. It was half-assed to do so, though.
and yes, the health bars are bullshit, but aside from Shadow, no other game followed it to my knowledgeRush.
other than the fact that you have to play through all of them >_>Well, that's WHY it bothers me. Otherwise I probably wouldn't care.
And Shadow's death had MEANINGI must wholeheartedly disagree. I find Shadow's death in SA2 as senseless as Zero's in X5. He's invulnerable, empowered by the 7 emeralds and thus able to teleport at will, and he dies by falling into the atmosphere? Riiiiiight.
Shadow was close, IMO, closer than many realize given how many seem to believe that there are enemies you shouldn't be killing (???).
Eh, in a way that's true though, you shouln't be killing dark enemies if you want to go neutral/dark or else you could accidentally complete the hero mission. Yeah, that'd require ignoring the counters on the screen, but hey, I'm sure there's people like that XDNot when you consider that the main failing of the missions is their overly strict nature. That works both ways; if you deliberately skip even one enemy, you cannot complete their respective mission, and thus are free to kill all others who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Also, re: Shadow's death. He didn't die in SA2 just because his destiny was fulfilled, he died because of that AND he wanted to. It's just exactly as you say, he's invulnerable, powered by the 7 emerald and able to teleport at will, why didn't he save himself? Answer: He didn't want to.The in-battle dialogue constantly questioning Shadow's power suggests that exhaustion is at work there. It's not an explanation that I accept as plausible, but it's the explanation that I perceive the game is trying to push.
At least that's my impression.
Funnily enough, as clichéd as it was, Sonic Adventure 2 actually had a pretty decent story. And Shadow's death had MEANING, since that was pretty much the only thing he was made for. To protect the earth. Since he fulfilled his duty, what the hell is he still doing alive?
New games show him working for GUN, which is the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever heard (since they, you know, KILLED the only person he cared for >_>;; )
Flash, I define repeated use of all caps and sarcasm as bitching. Which you may do at any point you wish, it just takes considerably more boredom for me to be willing to read it. I'm only stating my point of view; if I thought you were doing anything wrong I'd have reported it. I don't.Not everyone likes caps, so I'll stop using them to highlight stuff in this debate. But sarcasm? That's the nacional language of the net.
I'm not really sure why you're insisting on comparing a flight game to a platformer, which is an apples-and-oranges thing to me, but so be it. Mock my play time all you want, but I never found Shadow so frustrating as to drop it prior to the Last Story. No, I did not expect the game to progress as multiple boat levels, however, I DID expect the game to flow into repeated forced and broken gimmick stages irrelevant to the game's core mechanics. You haven't offered any counter-point to suggest that the late-game is any better focus. In fact all I've heard of the children gameplay suggests the opposite to be true. Further, when among your major complaints is the control mechanics, it does not take the full length of the game to confirm that they suck. I went with the pointer over the analogue stick because I was not confident in how natural an analogue stick will feel from a profile view. But hey, when I run out of good games to play, maybe I'll try again. As much as I despise the game, I'm not in the habit of trade-ins, so it's still there on my shelf. And when/if I do, I will take you control advise to heart. But don't expect much. The hurdles I have encountered thus far still outweigh those I encountered in either Shadow or Heroes. The fact that this is before I encounter the children gameplay, which I cannot possible imagine as even belonging in the game, much less pleasant, is not encouraging.
I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from addaulting my point of view as a means to justifying your own. "About 10%" is an exaggeration, unless you're suggesting the game has 20 bosses. Dismiss me as uninformed if you must, but do note that I've caught you in two false criticisms already (avoiding enemies in Shadow and lack of play difference between BK's Knights of the Round Table), and you've demonstrated that you don't recall the game you're defending well enough to know a mandatory minigame when one discusses it. At least when I give you a fact that backs my opinion, I'm confident it's actually true.
I don't care about screenshot comparisons. I already told you that Shadow's visuals do not impress me. But NiGHTS was released considerably later, and after Secret Rings, I expect better from Sega.
FYI, your complaints of my comments being too vague make this my final response in which I attempt to avoid my traditional use of quote tags. That's why I use them, so you know specifically what I'm responding to. I avoided it here simply because I was in a bit of a hurry.
Rush.
Well, that's WHY it bothers me. Otherwise I probably wouldn't care.
I haven't known the Sonic Team game that has done Mission Mode well, either. Shadow was close, IMO, closer than many realize given how many seem to believe that there are enemies you shouldn't be killing (???). But it still wasn't right.
I must wholeheartedly disagree. I find Shadow's death in SA2 as senseless as Zero's in X5. He's invulnerable, empowered by the 7 emeralds and thus able to teleport at will, and he dies by falling into the atmosphere? Riiiiiight.
See, I don't buy one dying simply because their "destiny" is fulfilled. Something has to actually kill them. And if the cause of death is half-assed, then I don't expect any better should a revival be attempted.
Lack of play difference when fighting the knights? Please, I just waggled my way through both knights and levels. I think I had to back up a bit on Blaze, THEN waggle, but aside from that, jeez, it's pretty much the same dissapointing battle over and over. Not even any decent bosses, like Secret Rings had.I meant playing as them, not fighting against them. Each knight has varying special attacks.
Yes, I do find the enemy kill selection something awful. Even though you can kill "allies" and still proceed with the mission. Why? Because it makes no sense, takes away from your immersion in the game (if there ever was any) and makes it so awful to play.Well, given the lack of any "lock-on" with your shooting attacks, some excuse for the occasional stray is necessary.
What kind of game does this?A game which is a platformer first and a shooter second, not the other way around.
Once he's done it, seriously, what else does he have to live for?In fictional storylines, protecting the world from annihilation is more often than not a full-time job. I just find it bizarre that one threat is over and he assumes his job is done, whereas his promise to Maria was regarding no particular threat but rather the general "give them a chance" shpiel. That's a matter of constant vigilance. If he can't do it, and he has to pass the torch, so be it. But for him to just dive into the atmosphere after the day is saved is senseless.
I meant playing as them, not fighting against them. Each knight has varying special attacks.
I believe I already conceded (http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=3299.msg248195#msg248195) that Secret Rings has the overall greater boss selection (much as I love Dark Queen, the creatures that Secret Rings brought up provided much greater variety).
Well, given the lack of any "lock-on" with your shooting attacks, some excuse for the occasional stray is necessary.
There's also the fact that, regardless of Shadow's deeds, G.U.N.'s commander is an [dark hold] who has it in for him. Well established after the first stage. As for scenarios in which you ally yourself with Black Doom, I just see that as, should Shadow turn evil, you just need to stay the hell out of his way. Sort of a Vile-esque "loose cannon" thing. I'm also not really sure how intelligent his army is supposed to be.
I get what you're saying with the lack of Godzilla Unleashed style AI variance, but IMHO that's beside the point. I see Shadow's "allegiance", if you can call it that, as less a matter of who he's allying himself with and more a matter of what he believes is right, irregardless of what those around him think. Especially in the case of G.U.N. Sure, maybe they patch things up when it's all over (This is mainly a STH06 thing so I'm not that familiar with it), but for the majority of the game itself, that's a different story.
A game which is a platformer first and a shooter second, not the other way around.
In fictional storylines, protecting the world from annihilation is more often than not a full-time job. I just find it bizarre that one threat is over and he assumes his job is done, whereas his promise to Maria was regarding no particular threat but rather the general "give them a chance" shpiel. That's a matter of constant vigilance. If he can't do it, and he has to pass the torch, so be it. But for him to just dive into the atmosphere after the day is saved is senseless.
Different characters do matter alot in a game where all you do is press forward and shake your right hand like a maniac. Why improve the standard gameplay when you can add general bullshit to the game by changing the gameplay slightly and adding new skins, by way of characters who don't even have much of a motivation to join you other than that you've just kicked their ass easily and repetitively?Are you really at all familiar with BK's lategame? Because for someone who rips into me for judging a game on early impressions, comments like these sound a lot more like hearsay than actual experience to me.
Now, can you see a character with his personality being a hero?It's fairly common to see an anti-hero who happens to fight the bad guys but cares nothing for the typical "hero code of ethics". Shadow was once presented as such in the comics (he's a bit more emo nowadays).
http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6265241/But I don't think there's a whole lot new there.
Well, I simply disagree on there being any purpose to Shadow's death. I don't see it. If a memory of a single girl means more to him than 6 billion lives, and depending on states of amnesia he's willing to swing his stance on world destruction in an instant, and if he can relate other females (Rouge and Amy) to her, then surely it says that in some twisted way he does have a heart underneath that edgey exterior. I'm not saying the guy would ever be social, but there's a long gap between being a loner and having no reason to live. Shadow's purpose ties to Maria, and it is simply not possible for Maria's pleas to have been made in the context of merely stopping Gerald's vengeance for a death that he doesn't yet know has happened.So, this has turned into an argument strictly for the motivation of Shadow's death and the need for the several characters in Black Knight? Wow, thanks for the lack of response on the issues that mattered, instead of caring the most about the interpretation of a basic, simplistic story in a game meant for kids. Jeez, I meant it as a side-argument, but it basically got the whole original argument to dissapear in your replies.
Further, I'm not convinced that Shadow knew of Gerald's program from the beginning. Surely he didn't give a damn; Shadow saw humanity as hopeless at that point, but that doesn't say if he knew beforehand or whether Eggman was a means to an end regardless of Gerald stepping in. Surely the Eclipse Cannon is a fine instrument of revenge irregardless of whether or not Gerald's program hijacks it. If Shadow knew all of Gerald's work beforehand, then this cutscene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5ov1fh5Ewc) loses all significance, and Shadow should not be flinching when he sees the picture of Biolizard, nor should he be going along with Rouge questioning the validity of his memories.
Are you really at all familiar with BK's lategame? Because for someone who rips into me for judging a game on early impressions, comments like these sound a lot more like hearsay than actual experience to me.
First of all, plenty of stages involve a lot more than waggle-fests. There's a lot of platforming action which involves precision jump-dashing and cancelling; every bit Secret Rings' equal. And no, I am not talking about Legacy stages, fun as they are, they're also ludicrously easy. If you don't like the control mechanic of movement simply equaling a button press, that's fine and dandy, but don't pretend that the game stops there. It doesn't.
The motivation of the other characters joining you comes with the revelation of who the real villain is. That's why they're playable only in the game's second half. Kicking their ass doesn't motivate them to change allegiance, in fact it actually leaves them feeling unworthy of living. Sonic smacks some sense into them and leaves them in the dust.
And I don't see how it's bullshit to add characters who, unlike several of Sonic Team's more infamous efforts, do not run major interference with the game's core mechanics to such extremes as they cannot exist without exclusive stages tailored to them, nor do they mandate wasteful hours replaying the same game out of necessity for some coveted unlockable. Are ProtoMan and Bass bullshit characters in MM10? Is Tails a bullshit character in S3&K? There's nothing wrong with alternate non-mandatory characters who do not disrupt the game's focus; it adds personalization and replay value. Something which since Heroes Sega has almost completely forgotten how to do.
It's fairly common to see an anti-hero who happens to fight the bad guys but cares nothing for the typical "hero code of ethics". Shadow was once presented as such in the comics (he's a bit more emo nowadays).
And see, that's the thing. Who you're fighting against doesn't decide whether or not you're the child-friendly hero. In the MegaMan series, we see characters all over that spectrum, from the "good guys" such as Rock and X, to the "fight for what I believe in and don't give a damn what others say" such as Zero, to the "allegedly carries some sense of justice but by all appearances seems to be a rebellious violent psychopath" such as Bass.
Shadow works with G.U.N. for the same reason he worked with Eggman: as a means to an end. His purpose ties to Maria, working with others is simply the best way he sees to get the job done.
Well, there was this:But I don't think there's a whole lot new there.Does that video load for anyone else? It doesn't load for me.
Wow, thanks for the lack of response on the issues that mattered, instead of caring the most about the interpretation of a basic, simplistic story in a game meant for kids. Jeez, I meant it as a side-argument, but it basically got the whole original argument to dissapear in your replies.Flashy, I don't know if this RPM wall-of-text thing is new to you, but for the sake of sanity one typically lets go of issues they are either willing to concede or, more likely, do not consider terribly significant/productive in the first place. More detail on that following my final quote.
You think Vader would have a place in the rebellion if he had survived? You think Axel would just join Sora and his friends in adventures if he had survived? You think... oh hell, not gonna list every single example. Here. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsDeath Knock yourself out.TVtropes lists every fictional storywriting phenomenon known to man, including polar opposites to the one you gave me (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEarnsLife).
Only because of fan-bitching, he was alive and well in the next game, and not fitting in AT ALL. And they kept trying to shove in more and more story, just to make up for it. "Amnesia! Aliens! Gerald was right! You're a team member with a jewel thief and a mass murdering robot! The ones who killed the only person who ever mattered to you are now your employers!" It's all worthless drivel which is just meant to feed the fan machine. Shadow's death FIT.So while we're obsessing over criticizing one's discussion tactics, I'll take a shot with this: You're trying to counter someone's problem with a character death, so you offer your problems with the character living. The flaw to such an argument is that a character's life can take an infinite number of turns, and the mere fact that their life was handled poorly does not necessitate that he should not have been alive at all. My core problem with Shadow's death, is that I do not consider a death of circumstance (and exceedingly poorly written circumstance at that) to be a death of necessity. Nothing in your post addresses that. You state that Shadow HAD to die, but you offer no reason as to why which has not previously been brought up in the discussion. G.U.N., redemption, farked memories, we tackled all of that before.
As for more characters in a game, that have similar gameplay with a few differences? I'm perfectly okay with it. As long as the gameplay WORKS. In Black Knight, it's stuffing more layers of broken into a broken game, turning them into bullshit characters who do nothing to make the game better, and just add more layers of the derrivative factor that makes the gameplay unsuited for any kind of game, and completely unpolished from any point of view. But developers prefer to make more characters instead of making their damn games good.This is the kind of segment I was talking about above, where if I was discussing this with anyone but you, I'd have not quoted this segment and simply let it go. Why? Because you're re-stating what you already said in previous posts, indicative that we have reached an impass. One typically does not demand some acknowledgment of this kind of situation.
2D Fans of Sonic the Hedgehog, rejoice!!Is it out now?! ^^
Listening to one's fanbase can be very good, but depending on the fanbase, it can also backfire due to said fanbase being in disarray. But hey, here's hoping that it works out in the end. Maybe then I can get a Sonic CD 2 as well! XD
No, Blues. As much as I still choose not to trust modern-day Sonic with Sonic 4, you know DAMN WELL there's no reason to trust them with Sonic CD 2. The very notion of having green-eyed, big-ass head with legs Sonic appear in a sequel to a game produced by Naoto Oshima (Sonic's original designer)....aw, HELL NAW. 8D
Awwww, but I want more time travelling 1.21 JIGGAWATT Hedgehog again! XDYou could always hope they make the time traveling not completely pointless.
I maintain that there is no real consensus in the Sonic fanbase about how to make a "good" Sonic game, nevertheless I have to admire their effort. And I certainly appreciate them tweaking the running frames/speed, because that was looking pretty sad in earlier builds.
You could always hope they make the time traveling not completely pointless.
You could always hope they make the time traveling not completely pointless.
This place sounds more civilized than the elitists over at Sonic Retro. ("We rage over game titles, music, and think the classics are perfect!...TOO perfect to live up to!")The reused bosses and badniks are on purpose. Jesus, they had cheers when the old designs came back, because fans wanted it all back and when they showed the concept art, people rejoiced. People wanted the old back, people wanted it to be classic, just like the old titles. Now you complain because you think it's lazy? Seriously, I wish I could strangle you fans sometimes.
Sonic fans? Civilized? 8D
Disorganized as we are, from furries to fantards and jaded old school fans, you are correct. Retro couldn't even get a community-based sequel off the ground. Everyone over there is fuming because this is "Not want we wanted." Ask a fan anything: they may think Sonic 4 involves all of Sonic's friends with Shadow overshadowing (SEE WHAT I DID THAR!?) Sonic. Some envisioned Sega pulling a Megaman 9 move with retro graphics and sounds. (Of course, that's what I would have liked to see) Other fans envisioned a 2D game with HD sprites (ala Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD).
Instead we find that Sega is still a washed-up has-been from the 90's that should have been bought out by Nintendo. Yes, Sega's listening, but methinks they aren't putting their best efforts into making the game (reused bosses, badniks, etc). Jun Senoue (the composer) was even going to use the same computer and development kit he used to make the music for Sonic 3! (The NEC PC-88? 98?) Someone could at least tell him about emulation, right?
Given that this is only the first episode, we don't even know what the rest of the game is going to look like. (Of course, angry fans will still give Sega the 'guilty until proven innocent' treatment) Although I have my suspicions that Episode 2 will involve reusing/making minor edits of Sonic CD content.
Of all the levels I've seen, Lost Labryinth looks the most original.
It's not even completely reusing the bosses. It's bringing them back and suping them up with a new trick or two. It's not like Sonic is the first to do this.Exactly. I really loved to watch the leaked first boss and see that it had new tricks up its sleeve. It surprises fans. XD
And its not like he hasnt done it befor either. didnt Advance do that too? (one of them)
The reused bosses and badniks are on purpose. Jesus, they had cheers when the old designs came back, because fans wanted it all back and when they showed the concept art, people rejoiced. People wanted the old back, people wanted it to be classic, just like the old titles. Now you complain because you think it's lazy? Seriously, I wish I could strangle you fans sometimes.This is EXACTLY what I was talking about.
Every fan has their own ideal Sonic. Every fan will [sonic slicer] at their perceived inconsistencies. Hell, I do it too, just get me talking about Tails. When Sega offers a lazy/rushed development, that's one thing, but you can't really fault them for not measuring up to a million different expectations at the same time.
Again, though, who's at fault for that?Uh, as far as I know, and as far as it's been argued, the first few Sonic games were pretty darn similar to one another. Sonic's gaming "roots" are well-defined, moreso than Mario or Mickey, which have had ten million different games and different cartoon versions as far as we can tell. (Plus Mario had that small Super Mario Bros 2 problem, which got different games on each side of the globe and radically different games after that) Sonic's had comics, cartoons and all that jazz, but his true roots being refered to in this case are the Genesis games roots, and for that case, they're making sure this game is, pure and simply, a 2D game, starring Sonic alone, with enemies lifted off the old games of the series.
Sega were the ones who allowed Sonic to be marketed in so many different ways since his introduction in the 90s, and when he quickly became their licensing [sonic slicer]. There were the games. There were the cartoons. There were the comics. And several different permutations existed for of all the former things, depending on the region of the world you lived in. This would only go on to be compounded, thanks to the "Adventure-era" Sonic that a new generation of fans would grow up with. And all of that was fine, as long as Sega was making money.
But, fast forward. Now we're in a world where Sega is floundering about with their "golden boy", simply because they really have no idea of what to do with him. That's why the tagline "returning Sonic to his ROOTS~" is meaningless; how do you return something to its grassroots condition, when pretty much everybody was allowed to grow up with the character/concept/world in their own way? Even worse, when you have people like Iizuka, who don't exactly paint themselves as the sharpest crayons in the box either? 8D
You know it's dysfunctional when there are still arguments about the "proper name" of Sonic's main antagonist. On the other hand, when was the last time any significant argument about the name of the Princess of the Mushroom Kingdom took place?
So, again, Sega has no one to blame but themselves for the mess they have now. Mario, and especially Mickey Mouse, existed as ideal models of how to market a world-wide character and brand, in what could be described as a uniform way. That's definitely not what could be described for Sonic...
You know it's dysfunctional when there are still arguments about the "proper name" of Sonic's main antagonist.I have to give you that one.
It's as much as a true return to the roots as New Super Mario Bros (Wii) was.I'd say it's closer to NSMBDS, in that it very strongly references the original one or two titles rather than the entire "oldschool" track record. NSMBWii contains numerous references to nearly Mario's entire 2D catalogue, while the DS was more strongly geared towards 1. Likewise, taking Sonic solo is pretty specific to STH1 and CD. STH2 and S3&K offer some serious competition for "best oldschool Sonic", but many of their finer points appear ignored, for Ep1 at least.
It was sloppy, yes, but a lot of higher regarded franchises have had far worse screwups when it comes to consistency.
Like the whole "Koopa/Bowser" and the "Peach/Toadstool" deal, remember that?Ben already referenced Peach/Toadstool above. I'm pretty sure he's referring to the transition with Robotnik/Eggman being badly handled by comparison to Peach.
I'd say it's closer to NSMBDS, in that it very strongly references the original one or two titles rather than the entire "oldschool" track record. NSMBWii contains numerous references to nearly Mario's entire 2D catalogue, while the DS was more strongly geared towards 1. Likewise, taking Sonic solo is pretty specific to STH1 and CD. STH2 and S3&K offer some serious competition for "best oldschool Sonic", but many of their finer points appear ignored, for Ep1 at least.My bad. I was gonna put both games in there, I just put the Wii version between parenthesis to show I meant that title as well, but it came out all wrong.
Kinda reminds me of the impact MM9 has on MM3 fans. There's turning the clock back, and then there's turning it WAAAY back.
Rock on is superior to "Megamerge"Damn straight.
Yeah, I've always known Bowser as both Bowser and King Koopa.We pretty much all did. Super Show. "Bowser" was never heard in the cartoons until SMB3, and even then was uncommon.
Rock on simply sounds awesome. whereas Megamerge sounds like some corny line you'd get from the likes of power rangers. (ironically enough)(http://home.comcast.net/~Anguirus/objection.gif)
(http://imgur.com/EXSck.png)
You're giving Megamerge too much credit, Flame. You don't want to mess with DINOZORD POWER!
Now, if they had yelled MEGA-MORPH, that would've been Morphanominal! 8DLol, I have to agree with PB on this one.
http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=342368Ok, I lol'd. This is like "Shut up and appreciate it"
I'm sure there's no way in hell anybody would buy this if it wasn't a downloadable title and therefore far cheaper than average.I actually would buy both games if they look good and have good reviews.
As for the "burning money" thing, I'm already at that point with the main Sonic series. The only way I'm ever playing Colors is if I pirate the disc.
I'm sure there's no way in hell anybody would buy this if it wasn't a downloadable title and therefore far cheaper than average.(http://home.comcast.net/~Anguirus/holdit.gif)
THEY suck balls at Unleashed's daytime segments, jumping into bottomless pits and generally playing like a 2 year old with ADD, and therefore, suddenly, its "bad level design", or, "Sonic is too fast" :\I have that opinion. Unleashed's levels are a textbook of bad level design. And the gameplay's awful. Sonic can just run, he can't walk or gain speed, he pretty much just has one single speed. The level design's something that you would see on some kind of bad romhack. Reviewers agree, and alot of gamers agree.
That wasn't just a one-time thing, though, they've continued to tear into the Dreamcast titles long since, including during Shadow reviews (which ironically enough makes Shadow sound a lot better than it is). You know me well enough to know that's not my only issue with them, as well. Maybe for you their track record's been decent, but for me, I don't buy Secret Rings > Black Knight either. And whether you do believe that or not, their quality is a lot more comparable than most reviewers will admit.I actually haven't seen any reviews of the recent games that say anything about the old Dreamcast titles, to be honest. I've had the chance to try out Black Knight and Secret Rings recently, and found Black Knight to have atrocious level design and mostly gimmick-based gameplay which didn't make sense, while Secret Rings had halfway decent level design and average but very unresponsive gameplay.
Nor do I believe that Dimps sidescrollers are the be-all end-all of hope for new-age Sonic. Rush games are fine and dandy, but they're not without their hiccups. And frankly I didn't find either of them all that much more enjoyable than either Storybook game.
It's hard to read a Sonic review and not see a double standard. Even when the game they're reviewing is genuinely bad, they have a tendancy to over-hammer it. The journalists simply believe that Sonic belongs as a sidescroller single-player racer with a dash attack, and have no real standards beyond that.
But you should never trust a trailer as it always lies.......sort of.But obvious stuff can be checked well. =P
I actually haven't seen any reviews of the recent games that say anything about the old Dreamcast titles, to be honest.Every review which generalizes 3D Sonic indirectly does so. Further, I've seen some go so far as to label STH3 as the "beginning of the end" back when it was re-released on Virtual Console, which is completely nonsensical considering that if you ask ANYONE their favorite 2D Sonic game, one of the 3 possible answers you will get is S3&K (STH2 and SCD being the others).
And don't put all of the journalists on the same bowl. Tons of them have very good reviews.Naturally the quality of any trade varies with the worker. I can't speak for anyone else reading this, but for me, you're stating the obvious.
Every review which generalizes 3D Sonic indirectly does so. Further, I've seen some go so far as to label STH3 as the "beginning of the end" back when it was re-released on Virtual Console, which is completely nonsensical considering that if you ask ANYONE their favorite 2D Sonic game, one of the 3 possible answers you will get is S3&K (STH2 and SCD being the others).(sigh). Always singling out the only statements you feel like replying to, huh?
Further, I have read today, Sonic Colors multiplayer previews that claim Sonic co-op was only done properly in STH2. Explain to me the logic behind that one.
Your level design comments on Black Knight and Rush leave me to believe that you're gauging them based on the early game. Black Knight has ludicrously straightforward levels to start but gets more platforming-involved as you progress, with several stages making heavy use of stunts and well-timed jump cancels to fly over hazards (which are CONSIDERABLY more visible than Secret Rings' obstacles). The level-up system is a lot better conceived in BK as well, considering you will not be penalized based on control sensitivity preferences that range all the way from molasses to practically teleporting to the opposite side of the screen, nor will you ever need to re-check your upgrade list to disable features that interfere with your current mission objective (who the HELL thought of avoiding spheres?). Speaking of which, Secret Rings can be very hit-or-miss in its mission objectives in general. Black Knight is a lot more solid in that regard, although the "avoid townspeople" ones could DEFINITELY stand a longer draw distance. Thankfully they're rare.
Rush, meanwhile, over-uses bottomless pits in its middle-to-late-game, which is not a good thing to do when you're moving so fast as to barely see in front of you. It's especially frustrating with Blaze since she tackles the levels in her own order, while Sonic's order is the obvious intent so far as difficulty curve. Rush Adventure is considerably better in level design, although the material/ship stuff may be seen as distracting. Both Rush games fail in final battle scenarios. That's the one thing the console games have largely done better. By all means, they're good games, but Sonic can be better.
Naturally the quality of any trade varies with the worker. I can't speak for anyone else reading this, but for me, you're stating the obvious.
With Sonic, though, the fragmentation in the fanbase (as I always say, there is no consensus on what a "good" Sonic game should be) gives the reviewers an exceedingly difficult job. Their analogies to Sonic's history tend to be very narrow-minded and thus clash with a good deal of the fans, as every SA2 lover feels every time someone is stupid enough to claim that 3D Sonic was never done well. While only a fool would say that ALL reviews are untrustworthy, I believe that the majority of them are. It's not even just Sonic; several other fandoms have led me to articles that can only possibly be excused as sheer ignorance. I've seen everything from the inability to locate the Options menu to criticizing control setups that don't even exist (I still need IGN's Daemon Hatfield to explain to me where the "right analogue stick" is on a remote/nunchuck-only Wii game).
(sigh). Always singling out the only statements you feel like replying to, huh?I'm not paid to reply to you, so yes. You're still surprised?
I'm not paid to reply to you, so yes. You're still surprised?It's disrespectful to the person writing the post in the first place, because it feels like you're constantly switching the argument to what you want it to be, just debating the issues you want, instead of dealing with the whole issue.
Do I need to link Vix's Argument Clinic video again?Of course it's redundant, it's a [tornado fang]ing internet discussion. It's meant to be redundant and meaningless, that's why we're talking here right now. That's the entire point of every single debate we've ever had.
The "whole issue" is redundant, you and I have been over Sonic quality half a dozen times and clearly have vastly different view points and expectations. In light of that, I respond to what I find productive. Or what I'm bored enough to pursue.
As for your last big post, I didn't mean to offend in neglecting it. Current time doesn't permit me to dissect it right now.
Of course it's redundant, it's a [tornado fang]ing internet discussion. It's meant to be redundant and meaningless, that's why we're talking here right now.
Which is why I always win them. Cause I'm always right!Exactly. It's why you always agree with me.
Of course it's redundant, it's a [tornado fang]ing internet discussion.I agree.
It's meant to be redundant and meaningless, that's why we're talking here right now.I agree. However, my willingness to continue, and the points which I do and do not pursue, are up to my on discretion.
That's the entire point of every single debate we've ever had.Internet debates have no point, it's part of their charm. But with no point, comes no obligation.
I usually take the time to counter your posts fullyI lack the drive to verify that because I don't particularly care how thoroughly you respond to my posts. However, I will say this: if in the event of any "serious business" discussion I feel you have neglected an important point of discussion, I will say so, and I will reiterate what point I do not feel you have adequately addressed. That happens exceedingly rarely, however, as I have known our discussions to be more casual than, say, me arguing with Marshmallow Man over what's going on in Iris's head during X4. My discussions with you are generally more expression than they are argument (that is "series of points" argument, not "contradiction" argument, which we do plenty of).
and leave it for another time when I don't feel like it at the momentThat's the glory of message boards, as opposed to chats. Pretty obvious stuff, I think.
but at least say you're not going through my entire post instead of just replying to what you got answers for, because that just seems that you're leading the argument to where you want it to go and avoiding the issues you don't want to see discussed.(http://home.comcast.net/~Anguirus/holdit.gif)
have nothing meaningful to addYou never do. 8D
I apologize for the heavy edit, but I saw my post as worth expanding and you responded faster than I expected. I saw no point in re-editing a separate post since your response was obviously poking fun anyway.
For somebody who keeps reiterating how the internet is supposed to be pointless, you're awfully hung up about "proper debating procedure". I don't consider internet message boards a formal event; they are informal discussions, and as such subject to personal whims, the same as chatting with some guy you pass in a hallway. You want to argue with a rule book, take it to an assembly with a mediator. If you want a respectful casual conversation, then give respect. That means refraining from mundane personal criticisms and not exploding into swear-ridden rants.
On most/all message boards in general, it is considered poor conduct, and at times outright spam, to simply say "I agree" or "I disagree" without expanding as to why. It falls into the "one-word reply" category: It contributes nothing to the discussion and annoys the other members. For that reason, I will not address those points for which I cannot offer a unique angle.
It is further impractical to expand on each and every point in every post one responds to; the posts grow without end, and any veteran on RPMer will tell you that quite a few wall-of-text discussions which I have been part of have grown out of hand even with my "debating" as you have currently experienced. Needless to say, to comb every post as meticulously as you insist is out of the question. Just ask Marshmallow Man.
You have interesting timing about when to call it quits. In my last post, I made an effort to resolve your qualms against me, and asked you for a specific example as to what I neglected in my reply which you claim did not address your full post. You've ignored that. If you're going to claim that I've ignored you, yet cannot provide an example as to how, then your comments are truly meaningless.
I'm intrested if the mincart can bring back the memories of the DKC games. It looks a nostalgic homage now that I look at it.
It can't, because the DKC games are superior platformer games! 8D
DC: Back when Sonic 4 was still known as Project Needlemouse, Sega stated the game would have speed would not be found by hitting a boost button, but rather through momentum. The opposite of this appeared at E3, where the levels (though a work in progress) contained a good number of artificial boosts. Is creating an appropriate sense of speed a major challenge for the development team?
TI: I think there were an misunderstanding here, what I tried to say was classic Sonic series would not use those actions that were featured in ‘Sonic Rush’ series and which is for example activating boost by charging up the gauge and push button… I believe instant execrations by gimmicks like booster are important elements to keep the better game pacing.
DC: Speaking of changes, any insight as to why Sonic's homing attack has been incorporated into Sonic 4’s design?
TI: I thought Homing Attack is effective action also for classic game design to produce good paced speedy gameplay. Also, we are able to create skyline route and try instant judgment and control to expand the variation of level design by adding this action. Please try this game and experience this.
I played Sonic 4 yesterday. Didn't some of you say you could play through without using the homing attack? Because you were wrong. Very wrong. I didn't have to even think while playing the game.
Sonic 4 is Sonic Advance 4
Yeah, dream is dead in my eyes. 8D
Yeah, dream is dead in my eyes. 8D
Sonic 4 is Sonic Advance 4
(http://i53.tinypic.com/es3rd4.png) (http://i53.tinypic.com/es3rd4.png)
|:
Click to enlarge, btw.
I love how the "5" part came out of nowhere, where 4 doesn't exist. 8D
This One Gamer that can't (and never will be) be pleased, unless it has the frikkin' nintendo label on it. Talk about fanboy and chum-chum.
* How they basically handed Capcom and Bandai-Namco's "Gundam Vs." series an easy, uncontested win in arcades, in the form of how Sega poorly ran the Virtual ON brand, and then basically sat on the franchise for the better portion of a decade. Now they want to try and sow the seeds of revival by....porting 10 year old games exclusively on the 360. Yeah....
by putting the very next game in the series exclusively on the PSP, the console that's effectively dead in America
By effectively having a "gangsta kid" advertising a bunch of medicore games (cutting out ModNation, never played that) rather than far, superior titles for the PSP? Yeah. The PSP's library here is meh compared to it's rival handheld. Hell, I even use it as a commercial-free DVD player by porting my movies into it. 8DFunnily enough, I love the PSP's library and what it's brought as a console so far.
Microsoft, if you are hearing this: GET YOUR ASS INTO GEAR AND MAKE A HANDHELD OF YOUR OWN!
I can't counter all of your points due to not being familiarized with some of them. But I will answer on what I know.
- Being a BIG fan of the Ryu Ga Gotoku/Yakuza franchise, I completely agree on how the franchise should have more attention over here. There isn't a very big fanbase for the game, but it is an incredible franchise that deserves way more attention than it has. If the first two games could be widely accepted as underappreciated hits online, they would gain at least a bigger fan following, and possibly Sega's attention. As far as the content they removed from the localized Yakuza 3... I've played the taken-out-content, and I can honestly say that this is a completely overblown issue everywhere. Uninformed people keep spreading that Sega took out a third of the game, and that people shouldn't buy Yakuza 3 for that reason alone. The GAME itself is fine. They took out a few unimportant missions, a japanese trivia game (which involves stuff from JAPAN, which I don't think would travel well) and they removed the hostess' minigames, which honestly, were something to throw away and forget about, every single second I played of them. Yakuza is a franchise that likes to put in too much stuff in its games, and as any other game with minigames with different gameplay which involve using its regular engine, many don't travel well. This is one of them, something which is quite popular in japanese culture, but which I think even the most dedicated weeaboos have a bit of trouble loving.
- Playing the PS3 build of Bayonetta, along with the patch they provided, the game doesn't really seem that bad. Sure, there are a few slowdown and texture issues, but I imagine this must have been a somehow rushed port. They're not commiting the same mistake with Vanquish, as far as I can tell. So they learned from their blunder.
Honestly, tl,dr, I am AGREEING with you. These are big mistakes by Sega. I just think that they're a bit blown out of proportion.
See, I would agree with you, if they didn't already have a "standard" from the last few games. The Hostess games and the extra missions were unfettered with in the PS2 game localizations. So, why get all "brand new" and thinking they can cinch us on the content end by the first localized PS3 release? Even more so the pity when you consider they had TROPHY DATA relating to that extra content?I guess I'm just a "glass half-full" kind of guy. I was a moderator for a year on a Yakuza 3 fansite with the purpose of getting Sega to make a translation for us overseas. The site closed, but we made enough noise to get our translation, and we got to play the game. The single fact that Valkyria Chronicles existed and that it was an amazing RPG, made by the Sega of today, kinda brings me alot of hope. And when other Sega developers (except for shitpiles like Secret Level) make an effort to deliver good games, like Sumo Design with Sonic & Sega All-Star Racing, or Dimps with their Sonic titles, I see some hope. Maybe it's the Sega fanboy of old inside of me, but although I see ALOT of blunders coming from Sega, I still manage to buy some of their games and get wonderful stellar gaming experiences out of them.
And I don't care what any body says, Sega missed the boat when it came to Kenzan. If Agetec thought it was worth the risk for "Way of the Samurai", SURELY Sega could have had their own answer ready with Kenzan. Sadly, most Americans won't get to play what is easily one of the best games in the saga thus far. Hopefully, Sega will learn their lesson with 4.
If it was just one or two isolated incidents, maybe you would be right to think they're blown out of proportion. Because after all, even the likes of Nintendo, Sandlot, Treasure and Technos Japan/Million, as much as I love 'em, can expect to deliver 100% all the time. But we're talking about an array of continuing events that pretty much stem from the Sega-Sammy merger, and just continue to persist even now. It adds up, and only does more to undermine the image of the company as a whole.
This is exactly the kind of thing that Blues tries to relate through his restaurant-related allegories. It's one thing to fly off the handle, if say, you have an isolated incident, or two, where Olive Garden doesn't fix your mango daiquiri exactly to your specifications, but you could otherwise say that you have had a pleasurable experience at the restaurant as per usual. It's another thing altogether if you have one visit where the waitress basically ignores you, then another where your chicken parmigiana is terribly dry, another where the salad has dry and wilted leaves and etc., etc. That [parasitic bomb] adds up after awhile, and it's the kind of stuff that makes you question your love and loyalty to a brand name you've come to expect certain things from, especially if you've been a long time consumer.
And that's basically where I am with Sega now-a-days. For the few brief times I see something that gives glimmers of hope (VF5: Final Showdown, RGG/Yakuza being a continue success, forming the partnership with P*, Valkyria Chronicles, the initial announcement of Sonic 4), the other shoe drops soon afterward and it is straight up MADDENING for a former Sega die-hard like myself to see. Even the Sega of 2000-2003 (back in the days of Dreamcast and even including the baby-steps towards being a multiplatform console developer) is a world away from the Sega of today...
Olive Garden
I said a restaurant, Ben, not the [tornado fang]ing Olive Garden, with their absolutely tasteless Italian Food. LoL, even I would never compare SEGA to the Olive Garden, no matter how many free breadsticks they might shove in your face. 8DThat bad? I kinda heard good stuff about it. Meh, being used to good Italian food, I'd probably hate such a franchised look upon pasta cooking, huh?
Meh, being used to good Italian food, I'd probably hate such a franchised look upon pasta cooking, huh?
I said a restaurant, Ben, not the [tornado fang]ing Olive Garden, with their absolutely tasteless Italian Food. LoL, even I would never compare SEGA to the Olive Garden, no matter how many free breadsticks they might shove in your face. 8D
Sorry, but again, that's where I am with Sega now-a-days. 8D
sonic 1 special stages
Which reminds me, I don't think I posted this [parasitic bomb] yet:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9NvkX6Z9tg[/youtube]
Skip to 2:46
http://www.sonicstadium.org/blog/2010/09/12/ign-sonic-4-iphones-minecart-more-fun-than-the-universal-stages/Delicious irony. Fans shouldn't have bitched about the [tornado fang]ing stages.
I'm just gonna leave this here. 8D
I just don't get why it said the stage was controversial...because people bitched about a motion controlled minecart segment where you had to tilt the screen with the wiimote to move the cart around and went BAAAAWWW, THATS NOT SONICLIKE BAAAAW WE WANT SONIC NOT THE MINECART, BAAAAAW.
http://www.sonicstadium.org/blog/2010/09/12/ign-sonic-4-iphones-minecart-more-fun-than-the-universal-stages/
I'm just gonna leave this here. 8D
Which goes to show the majority of Sonic fantards don't even know what they want anymore.This, but I don't necessarily think having two different stages because of fan bitching is a negative.
Wii DLC maybe? I hope so.>Wii
o~O Well.......that's kinda ballsy.thank you!
I mean, if you're gonna charge $45 bucks, you might as well release the whole damn thing as one game on a disc for that much, rather than make people wait Episode by Episode right when they're getting into the game.
I dunno, this seems pretty stupid.
But hey! Once again, we get another example of "Sega does what Nintendon't"! 8D
Four parts? That actually would justify the $15 price point if this is only a quarter of the game. I wasn't expecting more than three parts.
And another talking point than can be seen as defending the price: Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles were full price when they came out, right?
I think so. Just remember they were half of what they were, and you needed both to get the full game, (Sonic and Knuckles was a top-loader Genesis cart if I recall). Apparently what Sega's trying to do is re-live the S3&K experince by doing so in "episodes".I have both games. Sonic and Knuckles has the lock-on part on top. Sonic 3 (and any other Genesis game) could be inserted on top of S&K.
You're all now aware Sonic 4 will come in four parts, the whole thing totaling $60.
You're all also now aware that Sega will not do a physical release once all four parts are out.
That was really cool. What was the gimmick in the old build? Cause I'm sure it wasn't as good as this. Riding the decks of cards around like Ice Man was awesome.
Play a pinball machine to amass 100,000 points to clear the level. Here it is in the leaked 360 build:
Yeah, about that four parter business, sauce please?
Ah. So you're just pessimistic. Come on, give Sega an iota of credit.
Wait, since when did it cost 1500 points? o.o;
Japan Shop Channel sells it for 1000 points each episode.
Q: Thanks to Casino Street Act 2, there is no such thing as Game Over in Sonic 4i already had 20+ lives prior to Casion Act 2
Platformers these days seem to do that a lot.
New Super Mario Bros., both DS and Wii, are especially guilty of this.
All I can say? I'm damn glad that I was able to play the demo on a friend's PS3 yesterday. Even there, it was practically twisting my arm to take the controller, with my friends saying "Go on, for old time's sake! It's your Birthday, after all, Ben!" and etc. Some Birthday surprise. 8D
If nothing else, it was enough to make sure that not even downloading the demo was worth my time, much less actually doling out the cash for the full game. 8D
Platformers these days seem to do that a lot.As was said above SMB has been doing it since 3.
New Super Mario Bros., both DS and Wii, are especially guilty of this.
I'm glad to see that it's getting better reception over here, as opposed to Sonic Retro. Someone please tell me that it's possible to diagnose Sonic fans with a severe case of bipolar disorder. (Case and point: saying Sonic 2006 is better than Sonic 4) Sonic fans are crazy! o-OI've long subscribed to that ever since Heroes, frankly, although that was more a few game reviewers than the fans in general.
Ben has ABSOLUTELY ZERO faith in new-age Sonic.
Secret Rings/Black Knight is another one that mystifies me. Okay, you don't like BK's concept, fine, but technically speaking its controls are in nearly every way superior to its predecessor. Thrusting homing attacks were about all Secret Rings offered that didn't at some point feel awkward; backwards movement, brake button, near every jump requiring charging, and the opposite movement sensitivity extremes presented in your Skill list, it all took a bit of getting used to.
What I'm saying is that he actually played the Demo, but described nothing wrong about it. Just giving the basic "Oh my it sucks so bad" routine.
What I'm saying is that he actually played the Demo, but described nothing wrong about it. Just giving the basic "Oh my it sucks so bad" routine.
Like Blues has stated, there's not too many pages that have gone by in this topic where I didn't mention my disgust with this game, especially in its "young adult" and "middle-age" page numbers. 8D
But the gist? It all boils down to physics. For some people, perhaps, Sonic, as a character, is enough to get them to support a game, regardless of quality. That just speaks more to the notion that they value the character, more than the game play itself. That was never the case for me. I fell in love with the original Sega Genesis/CD anthology of games, because they had great level design and physics that worked well with the character's main concepts, that being momentum-based speed, rolling and platforming.
In essence, Sonic 4 spits on everything that made the original games what they were (yet directly invokes them, by being "Sonic 4"), by why of implementing wack-ass physics. And no matter how much the developers try hide it behind homages, throw-backs and re-using various enemy types/boss fights, my heart is not moved when the game doesn't play anything like those classic titles.
Case in point: Why is that I'm SLOWING down when I'm rolling along, instead of picking up speed? That kind of [parasitic bomb] didn't happen in the original series.
And then of course, things like this can still happen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmYjg9sa5bw
So yeah, there-in lies my beef with "new Sonic".
I dunno, I think he's been very clear as to why he wouldn't like the game before. After seeing Cephi stream it, I can see why.
I made the game look bad? ; ; This was not my intent
now i have a theory
collect all 36 rings in the final stage and collect all rings in the ending to turn supersonic in the ending
omg its HumanSonic
And then of course, things like this can still happen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmYjg9sa5bw
Nah, The rolling up was usually effective in the old games for those types of sections. I've only played the demo so far, and to be perfectly honest the physics don't feel the same, running up those curves tends to feel rather awkward somehow. Not to say this automatically makes it a bad game, but I can see why people might not like it.
I know the point you're talking about, and I did try to roll up it at first. So I instead ran up the left to build speed, then ran up and over the right, never had a problem again. Perhaps trying to roll up was muscle memory from the many halfpipes in Metroid Prime?
Go try it in Spring Yard and Casino Night, sir.
Every example in that video I can attribute to either You're Doing it Wrong or You're Doing it on Purpose.Obviously true on the incline deceleration. ANY seasoned Sonic player, when they see they are not clearing an incline (and yes that can happen a plenty) will either turn around or jump, and jumping off of an incline was never smooth in the Genesis games to begin with (if anything Homing Attack gives you more of a fighting chance in those situations).
And maybe it's just me, but even in the Genesis days I held forward after a spin dash, or most anything that requires me going forward at all, so the air momentum thing is not a problem to me. Hell, stopping in mid air could actually be very helpful when platforming. You can fall at the precise spot and not worry about overshooting.I actually notice it more when trying to brake from a spin-dash, particularly during the final boss fight, so yeah it can be useful once you adjust. But really, a Homing Attack/Jump Dash in the opposite direction ought to be able to cancel momentum just as well without screwing with the default movement. Further, if we're open to incorporating 3D Sonic abilities into 2D (and I must admit they handled that pretty well; felt a lot more natural than midair boosting in Rush, and the range was short enough that it didn't break the game), I think a MANUAL Jump Cancel such as used in Secret Rings/Black Knight wouldn't have been a bad idea. Heck, there were a few areas in the final Act where I would have killed for such an ability, what with how fast those freaking gates close. Come at one too high in the air and you're dead.
Ring collection in the ending jog could not possibly be more pointless. Seriously, I nabbed all the Chaos Emeralds, blew up all the machines, and Eggman is laughing at me because I had less than perfect jumps in an auto-run devoid of enemies or hazards? Riiiight.I thought he was laughing because of
Horse.
[parasitic bomb].
People complain about this all the time, and yet it's NEVER happened to me. Not in 4, not in Rush, NEVER. If you get what's in that video, I'm convinced YOU'RE doing something wrong.
Well, maybe. I didn't actually get all of those rings yet; only beat the final boss once.
Whoever put this bottomless pit under a field of rotating cards when Sonic has no air momentum without a homing attack can suck my dick.
So, with this game continuing where Sonic3 & Knuckles left off, how does its story relate to the Adventure games and beyond?
Not to mention that you can't jump up the cards when they are flat like platforms, because some dipshit put collision data on the bottom.while every other platform doesn't
So, with this game continuing where Sonic3 & Knuckles left off, how does its story relate to the Adventure games and beyond?"Story". XD
[spoiler]because we need every excuse in the book to not use ANY of Sonic's supporting cast, Sonic follows Eggman to his space base by jumping onto a conveniently placed Eggman rocket. What the hell is the rocket even doing there? Beats me.[/spoiler]
There's considerably LESS story in this game than STH2/S3&K, which is saying a lot. Sonic runs, collects Emeralds, and blows up Eggman's nostalgic crap. That's it.
[spoiler]Look closer, sir. That's Tails' logo.[/spoiler]Must've been half-asleep. Still doesn't explain it popping up from out of nowhere, though.
Grass, casino, ruins, machine base. That's it.
Must've been half-asleep. Still doesn't explain it popping up from out of nowhere, though.
[spoiler]It shows Tails is still around, but never seen.[/spoiler]So just when we thought Tails couldn't get screwed over any further, he gets demoted from cheerleader to Gareth's lion.