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Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => X => Topic started by: Satoryu on March 27, 2009, 01:01:45 AM

Title: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Satoryu on March 27, 2009, 01:01:45 AM
We all know Mega Man X3, right? The game that finally let you play as Zero, albeit briefly. One of the harder to come by Mega Man games on the SNES.

When I was first getting into Mega Man, I thought this game was the best thing since sliced bread. But now that I've grown up, grown wiser, and grown out of the Zero fanboy stage, I realize now that this game is absolute trash compared to the two before it. And it didn't have to be. If Capcom played their cards right with this game, it could've been fabulous, sexcellent, e.p.i.c, or any other positive adjective commonly thrown around here. And I'm going to tell you how this could be possible.

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First off is something I mentioned right at the beginning: Playable Zero. I realize that in X3 this was just conceived as a bonus feature, something optional you never had to use. And honestly, why would you? A full powered X makes Zero obsolete. You can only use Zero for 1/3 of a stage. He can't fight bosses. If he dies, you can't use him again in that playthrough. Really, Zero's only worth in the game is getting killed by the bug miniboss in Doppler 2 so X can get the Z Saber and [twin slasher] bosses. His sprite is also really big compared to X. They're supposed to be about the same size.

Increase Zero's usefulness. Treat Zero as a special weapon of sorts. When you call him, he will be the active character for a specific amount of time. Or rather, until his weapon energy meter runs out. And this could be anywhere, even boss fights. There's no reason why you should lose him forever if he dies, either.

Zero should also have his own playable extra mode, like secondary protagonists in Castlevania games. No story, no X. Also, Zero could be differentiated from X. You know, like X4 and on did. Less importance on the Z Buster, and more focus on the Z Saber. Assign the buster to a button, and the saber to another. Give him the three step combo and all that jazz. Special weapons from bosses, too. Rising slash, sword plant, spinny move, Giga Attack, etc.

I would say use the now de facto tag team system for X and Zero, but that's probably best saved for another game. Maverick Hunter X3, perhaps. Capcom, I hope you're taking notes.

---------------------------------------

Next is the Armor Upgrades. They're terrible. The up Air Dash is really clunky. The overlapping buster upgrade sucks eggs. The body armor doesn't help too much. And the helmet is only useful the first few times playing the game. Something needs to be done with them. Especially the buster.

The placement of them is also terrible. You need the Buster for two of the other capsules. You're supposed to need the Air Dash for the Buster, too, but it is possible to get the Buster with only Tornado Fang and tricky wall jumps. Placement for heart tanks and sub tanks is also bad. Again, you need the buster for most of it. The tasks to get these things could be modified a little. And the capsules maybe swapped around MHX style.

Also, the pink capsules are just as useless, if not moreso. Why would you only want to settle for one of the four additional upgrades when you can have all four at once?

---------------------------------------

One of the game's problems is there's such a thing as too much. Equipment wise, they tried to give a load of weaponry for X to use. Too bad they're extremely situational. Either increase their usefulness, or get rid of them. The boss weapons are some of the worst in the series. Especially the charged versions of them. They could all be improved upon. The different Ride Armors was a nice idea with terrible implementation. Just sticking with wild Armors to find would be just dandy.

There's too much going on in the plot, too. Rather, if feels like there's too much because the story has a lot of info that isn't fleshed out completely. Bit and Byte, for one, feel tacked on. Either their role in the story needs to be improved so fighting them makes more sense, or they need to be dropped. Vile is also a bit too much for the game. It's nice to see him come back, and his role is much better than Bit and Byte's, but still they could have done better with him. Having all three of them is a bit of a killer, though.

---------------------------------------

Now for some nitpicks:
- Why did the music quality take such a dive from X2 to X3? It sounds so fuzzy most of the time. And some of the melodies themselves are crap too. They're either too short (Doppler's theme), or just sound like a trainwreck (Blizzard Buffalo, the epilogue).
- The smallfry enemies in this game are cheaper than they need to be. They have really high defense, too. A charge shot does nothing to them.
- The spriting sucks too. As mentioned before, Zero looks a foot taller than X based on the sprites. Sigma's head is really tiny. It's smaller than the upgraded buster, which is needlessly big. Most bosses are extremely lacking in animations, too. Hell, most of them enter the fight just by dropping in from the top of the screen. Boss designs suck too. Neon Tiger looks 5% tiger and 95% Slash Man with icky colors. And don't get me started on Volt Catfish.
- Why didn't they continue with the Street Fighter moves? I mean, the Z Saber Wave is nice. I'm just surprised they didn't continue with the trend. Did they not think Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku would translate well to X? Did they not even consider using a different character's move, like Sonic Boom or Tiger Knee? They must've at some point afterwards; the Nova Strike ain't too different from Psycho Crusher.

---------------------------------------

X3 feels like a rushed game. Capcom had a lot of ideas. They never fully fleshed them out, but went ahead and crammed them into the game anyway. That also took away from finer points of the game. If Capcom were to include the refinements I listed above, I feel X3 may very well have been the best X game on the system, and a definite contender for best X game period. If a Maverick Hunter X3 were to ever roll around with these changes, all the better.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Align on March 27, 2009, 01:08:07 AM
I disagree.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Gotham Ranger on March 27, 2009, 01:15:48 AM
Just play X4 and stop retconning games
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Satoryu on March 27, 2009, 01:18:35 AM
look up the definition of retcon, would you?
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: RMX on March 27, 2009, 01:32:36 AM
Quote
grown out of the Zero fanboy stage

Quote
Increase Zero's usefulness.
Quote
Zero should also have his own playable extra mode

You sure?
You know...even if Zero could have originally meant to be the hero, the saga was called Mega Man X for a reason.

Quote
Why would you only want to settle for one of the four additional upgrades when you can have all four at once?

Why bother with any armor past this game when you can just Nova Strike everything?

Quote
Bit and Byte, for one, feel tacked on.

Of course. Zain, Geemel, Dynamo, Agile or Violen were much deeper mid-villain characters than them.

Quote
Why did the music quality take such a dive from X2 to X3?

I don't see this dive you speak of. X3 has many memorable themes.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Align on March 27, 2009, 01:38:29 AM
Yeah, what he said.
I don't want to go through each point and say "Nuh-uh!" or "That's just YOUR opinion!", because it all boils down to "I disagree.". It's not like we're going to reach a common middle ground anyway.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Satoryu on March 27, 2009, 02:02:28 AM
You sure?

yeah i'm sure. just because i want to give Zero fairer treatment, i'm a Zero fanboy? X3 was billed as the first game to have Zero playable. and as it is, X3 doesn't deliver well with that bill. i'm just proposing a way that would better the experience.

Zain, Geemel, Dynamo, Agile or Violen were much deeper mid-villain characters than them.

that is very true, despite your sarcasm.

X3 has many memorable themes.

i don't deny that. i love quite a few songs in the game. Toxic Seahorse, Tunnel Rhino, and Crush Crawfish, just to name a few. i'm more complaining about the fuzziness of the instruments. but on average, X3's soundtrack was weaker than X1 and X2's in terms of melody.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Sub Tank on March 27, 2009, 02:31:57 AM
It should have 4-player co-op and 15 different levels of difficulty, including Dante Must Die Mode and Ultra Violence.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Protoman Blues on March 27, 2009, 05:47:02 AM
Treat Zero as a special weapon of sorts.

Damn my perverted mind!   8D

As for X3, yeah I think that it had some issue I'd probably resolve too.  First off, I agree that Zero would have been better if Playable after you beat the game.  Heh, they could even reverse the role in the opening stage, except that X doesn't have Zero's kick ass theme.  Speaking of Zero's theme, give it the Vile MHX route where it just comes on every [tornado fang]ing level you play.  Yeah, that theme is just that bad-ass in the eyes and ears of Protoman Blues.  Also, make it where you can swap out Zero for DomincanZero.  Why?  Why the [tornado fang] not? This is MY dream X3 game!

As for music, I actually have no real issue with it, except for a few tracks.  Those tracks are namely Blizzard Buffalo (still my least favorite X song ever), the Boss Battle, Dr. Doppler Stage 2 (I [tornado fang]ing LOVE DOPPLER STAGE 1), and Dr. Doppler's fight theme. Dr. Light's theme was pretty weak too.  Other than those, I thought it had a decent soundtrack.

Weapons, yeah the weapons were kinda meh.  Cool ideas, just not executed in the best manner.  I still do love giant spinning Slashy Death Yo-Yo though!  As for the Buster, it's a step down from X2's Buster, but then every buster is in my eyes!

I think that's about it.  Overall I still do love playing X3 though.  Yeah, I like X1 & X2 more, in terms of SNES X games, but I still do like it.

Oh yeah, one more complaint... WAY TOO MANY [tornado fang]ing DOORS.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Satoryu on March 27, 2009, 06:09:09 AM
WAY TOO MANY [tornado fang]ing DOORS.

Jesus Christ how did i forget this?
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: VixyNyan on March 27, 2009, 07:03:22 AM
Also, make it where you can swap out Zero for DomincanZero.  Why?  Why the [tornado fang] not? This is MY dream X3 game!

I want to be in a "dream X game" too! Not just the doctor in the capsule... >U<
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Gotham Ranger on March 27, 2009, 10:27:15 AM
look up the definition of retcon, would you?
Yeah, I knew I used the wrong word, but what the ffff.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Shiki Tohno on March 27, 2009, 11:56:15 AM
[...] Also, make it where you can swap out Zero for DomincanZero. [...]
Somehow I feel highly praised, excited, appalled and ashamed of myself at reading this.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Protoman Blues on March 27, 2009, 03:21:54 PM
Somehow I feel highly praised, excited, appalled and ashamed of myself at reading this.

Then my work here is done!  XD
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Mega Greasy Houdini Tek 54321 on March 27, 2009, 03:34:22 PM
Quote
Also, make it where you can swap out Zero for DomincanZero.

Especially when he has a kickass gunblade!
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Align on March 27, 2009, 05:46:44 PM
please stop
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Hypershell on March 27, 2009, 10:20:37 PM
Just play X4
Quoted for truth.

Seriously, though, you want to know how to fix X3?  Very simple:

Give it a buster upgrade that doesn't suck.

Yeah, I'd like to see Zero given a better treatment.  But X3 is a great game as-is, the problem is that arsenal is 9/10 of a MegaMan game.  When you enjoy an unarmored run more than a normal one, you know something got screwed up.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Acid on March 27, 2009, 10:24:58 PM
The buster upgrade was really the only thing I disliked about MMX3.

So, in my humble opinion, it already is a great game. The optional/hidden bosses and gold upgrades were the best part of it.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: HokutoNoBen on March 28, 2009, 01:01:09 AM
Oh yeah, one more complaint... WAY TOO MANY [tornado fang]ing DOORS.

ARGH, THANK YOU!

I dunno what the level designer was thinking with all those doors. I mean, sure, it was an easy way to try and separate the mini-bosses and set up the limits for Zero being playable, but it was just TOO MUCH. Bad level design! Bad!  -u-'

Other than that...I can echo the sentiments for the Buster and Air Dash upgrades. Upward Dashing should have been handled way better than it was...and the fact that you basically NEEDED it for the last section of the game (pre and post Sigma) just made it more painful to use it, than it should've to be.

As for Zero? Making him into a designated "Special Weapon" would have been an interesting thing. But honestly, playing as an "Non Upgraded Buster" X, so that you could have the short range Saber Slash, was all I really needed to "simulate" the experience of playing as Zero back in the day.  8D
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Da Dood on March 28, 2009, 01:31:16 AM
I have only a couple of issues with X3:

1 - the fact that upgrades are way too Resident Evil-fied, almost key items, so you have to [for example] collect four things to get something as basic as the Body Part;

and 2 - the X-Buster Part.

Other than those, I think it's only surpassed by X1 and X2. No Street Fighter move? Sure, that did suck. But the Z-Saber and Gold Armor are both incredible secrets. In fact, X3 is littered with them. There's Vile's return in his own level, even more cause-consequence level instances with optional bosses, chips, special weapon attributes.

The collect-a-thon nature of X3 bothers me, too, but I simply ignore most items since I won't use them. In my runs I usually end up with both Foot Parts (normal and chip), the Z-Saber and nothing else. Very stylish.

I don't believe Zero should have been fully developed here. In fact, I think they made him this way on purpose, in order to avoid stealing X's spotlight like the series eventually did. Zero in X3 is almost an easter egg, just a nice touch.

Oh, I remember a 3 - that goddamn merry-go-round soundtrack remix. Yuck.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Hypershell on March 28, 2009, 02:35:53 AM
...and the fact that you basically NEEDED it for the last section of the game (pre and post Sigma) just made it more painful to use it, than it should've to be.
You need that as much as you need an air-dash in X6.  It's just the easy way out, nothing more. :P

Quote
But honestly, playing as an "Non Upgraded Buster" X, so that you could have the short range Saber Slash, was all I really needed to "simulate" the experience of playing as Zero back in the day.  8D
I prefer the actual man in red.  I just play as a non-upgraded X to enjoy the lightning-fast charge time for the saber. 8)
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Protoman Blues on March 28, 2009, 05:39:00 AM
Oh yeah, I remember one other problem I had with the game too.

Really, it was way too easy.  The Boss A.I. was painfully easy.  LoL, then there's the "Go Get A Sammich" Helmet Sub-Tank Filler chip!  XD
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Align on March 28, 2009, 01:48:04 PM
I'm torn on the bosses. It's very satisfying to be able to just "own" them with barely a fight, but on the other hand, no challenge - no fun.
Vaguely recall having a super hard time with them the very first time I played and didn't use their weaknesses, but then I was young and inexperienced back then.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: VixyNyan on March 28, 2009, 02:32:20 PM
Bosses you say? (click any of them) :cookie:

(http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/x/rockmanx3/boss/explosehorneck.png) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockmanx3explosehorneck.html) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/x/rockmanx3/boss/frozenbuffalio.png) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockmanx3frozenbuffalio.html) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/x/rockmanx3/boss/gravitybeetbood.png) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockmanx3gravitybeetbood.html) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/x/rockmanx3/boss/acidseaforce.png) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockmanx3acidseaforce.html)

(http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/x/rockmanx3/boss/electronamazuros.png) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockmanx3electronamazuros.html) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/x/rockmanx3/boss/scissorsshrimper.png) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockmanx3scissorsshrimper.html) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/x/rockmanx3/boss/screwmasaider.png) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockmanx3screwmasaider.html) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/x/rockmanx3/boss/shiningtigerd.png) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockmanx3shiningtigerd.html)

(http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/x/rockmanx3/boss/vajurilaff.png) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockmanx3vajurilaff.html) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/x/rockmanx3/boss/mandarelabb.png) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockmanx3mandarelabb.html) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/x/rockmanx3/boss/vavamk-2a.png) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockmanx3vavamk2.html)
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Fxeni on March 28, 2009, 05:54:50 PM
1 - Armour Parts suck ass
2 - So does the music
3 - So does the freaking Boss AI (http://www.youtube.com/user/Hanokaze)
4 - The level design could have been better
5 - Yeah, Zero is practically useless, what with the ridiculously long charge period and limited areas of possible use.

You know what the game needs to be better? A freaking overhaul from top to bottom, that's what.
Also, I still say X4 is overrated =P
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Acid on March 28, 2009, 06:08:36 PM
I must truly be the only person who like MMX3.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Fxeni on March 28, 2009, 06:12:01 PM
It still controls better than most of the X series that came out afterwards though (X4 included, aside from the Buster Armour Part). It could really have been awesome if it had more time to develop. But as is... yeah, refer to my previous post.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Gotham Ranger on March 28, 2009, 06:13:06 PM
The very fact that Mac didn't upstage Doppler or Sigma as the main villain makes it the worst game in the entire X Series
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Satoryu on March 28, 2009, 06:42:53 PM
sigh. i'm not sure if anyone here has gotten the message. my intention with making this thread was not listing things for a dream version of X3. if it was, there would be a lot more said. my point here was to list things that Capcom could have done while developing the game, things that were possible back then, that could've improved the experience.

I must truly be the only person who like MMX3.

this is part of the problem. the vibe i get from a lot of replies is that i hate this game. that couldn't be further from the truth. X3 is a great game. i just feel it was weaker than the two games before it. and it didn't have to be.

It still controls better than most of the X series that came out afterwards though

this i partially disagree with. i much prefer being able to dash jump without having to dash beforehand. and Zero does play way better when he's not an X clone. but on the other hand, losing forward momentum after an air dash sucks.

Also, I still say X4 is overrated =P

this is very very true. doesn't make it bad, though.

Really, it was way too easy.  The Boss A.I. was painfully easy.  LoL, then there's the "Go Get A Sammich" Helmet Sub-Tank Filler chip!  XD

true, but a couple points i brought up in the beginning disagree with that.

The very fact that Mac didn't upstage Doppler or Sigma as the main villain makes it the worst game in the entire X Series

i see your Mac and raise you a Magma Dragoon.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Sub Tank on March 28, 2009, 06:54:27 PM
I liked X3.  Sigma was way more fun to fight to fight than in X2 or X1.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Blackhook on March 28, 2009, 06:56:36 PM
Altough I´ve always wondered why his head became smaller....But he still was more epic than Wolverine Sigma
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Nekomata on March 28, 2009, 06:59:43 PM
X4 is the only game in the series where the head part is useful. D:
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Mirby on March 28, 2009, 09:10:15 PM
Yeah. Still, I agree with Satoryu on all counts. Also, Mega Man 9 copies a boss weakness from this game. (Gravity against a hornet) so there.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Bag of Magic Food on March 28, 2009, 09:15:12 PM
I didn't know HornetMan was weak to BlackHoleBomb.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Mirby on March 28, 2009, 09:18:56 PM
I think he is. I've been away for too long, I'm probably wrong. *checks* And I'm wrong. So be it. Regardless, the Gravity boss and Hornet boss were reused. As I just found out, you get to incinerate the hornet. Fun in real life too!
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Acid on March 28, 2009, 09:38:41 PM
The entire MMZ series was made of Lightning/FIre/Ice/No-Element bosses.

Sigma is always weak to lightning.

Mega Man is always blue.

*shock*
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Hypershell on March 28, 2009, 09:56:24 PM
5 - Yeah, Zero is practically useless, what with the ridiculously long charge period and limited areas of possible use.
At least Zero's attack following that ludicrously long charge is actually worthwhile.  Saber aside, Zero beats the hell out of X's enhancement.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Align on March 28, 2009, 10:57:55 PM
this is part of the problem. the vibe i get from a lot of replies is that i hate this game. that couldn't be further from the truth. X3 is a great game. i just feel it was weaker than the two games before it. and it didn't have to be.
Well, even then I've got a problem with the thread. I'll happily admit that X3 had faults, and even specify a bunch, but...
So did the first two (and all following). It happened to become one of the games I like the most (in the X series) regardless.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Fxeni on March 29, 2009, 12:24:37 AM
At least Zero's attack following that ludicrously long charge is actually worthwhile.  Saber aside, Zero beats the hell out of X's enhancement.
Mmm, true, but at least X's enhancement is completely optional. Zero is stuck with his long ass charge no matter what.

While X3 is my least favourite of the SNES games, I still prefer it to the other X games that follow. That's just me, though. If only Cappy had spent more time making it, then maybe it would have been better than it was. That's my main beef with it.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: RMX on March 29, 2009, 01:24:19 AM
I liked X3.  Sigma was way more fun to fight to fight than in X2 or X1.

X2 Sigma is the worst final battle I can remember for a X game (haven't played X7 or CM, but still...)
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Acid on March 29, 2009, 01:26:06 AM
He wasn't THAT bad.

Just less good compared to the others.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: RMX on March 29, 2009, 01:42:26 AM
Well, the whole thread is about "least good" instead of "worst"
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Nekomata on March 29, 2009, 01:44:05 AM
Sigma isn't in Command Mission.
X7 he's weak to the ZSaber.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Hypershell on March 29, 2009, 05:43:06 AM
I'd say he's a lot weaker to the Z-Saber in X6.  In X7 he is more thoroughly raped by a charged water attack, or Axl's G-Launcher.

So far as where X3 ranks, I'd consider it among the "fun but not up to the snuff of the others" category, the same as X5 and X7 (Xtreme1 is the only X game I consider truly bad).  All the rest rank well above it.  X3, like X5, had a lot of cool concepts, but it didn't quite come together the way it should have.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Bag of Magic Food on March 29, 2009, 06:00:13 AM
Wait, what was wrong with Xtreme 1?  I had a good time with it.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Hypershell on March 29, 2009, 06:06:09 AM
Generally ear-bleeding music and lack of ability to stand on its own feet.  There's next to no original content to it and you therefore have to ask yourself, why bother when you could be playing X1 and X2?

Now, Xtreme2 is a completely different story.  That game was divine.  Superior music ports, new stages, the convenience of the air-dash (a 2-button setup really needs that), and the most badass Ultimate Buster part the world has ever known.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Satoryu on March 29, 2009, 06:16:17 AM
Sigma is always weak to lightning.

false. it's only X1, X4 as X, and i think X5. i would say X7, but Raijinshou rapes everything in that game. every other game, the electric weapon isn't the weakness, or there is no electric weapon.

I'll happily admit that X3 had faults, and even specify a bunch, but...
So did the first two (and all following).

i have to actually think about faults in the previous two. there might not be more than the below:

- to do a dash wall jump in X1, you have to press dash and jump at the same time. in every game afterwards, you can hold dash, then press jump.
- its tricky to OHKO bosses with Shoryuken.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Bag of Magic Food on March 29, 2009, 06:54:40 AM
why bother when you could be playing X1 and X2?
What if you haven't played X1 or X2?  Then is it a good game?
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Protoman Blues on March 29, 2009, 07:53:13 AM
true, but a couple points i brought up in the beginning disagree with that.

Which points?
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Nexus on March 29, 2009, 07:56:43 AM
- its tricky to OHKO bosses with Shoryuken.

That didn't help Agile, or whatever his name was.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Satoryu on March 29, 2009, 08:01:21 AM
Which points?

uh point singular, my bad.

- The smallfry enemies in this game are cheaper than they need to be. They have really high defense, too. A charge shot does nothing to them.

i thought i mentioned the aftermath of fighting Kaiser Sigma. that climb is almost luck based, it would seem.

That didn't help Agile, or whatever his name was.

the exception to the rule.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Fragman on March 29, 2009, 10:10:22 AM
Honestly I enjoyed all the extras in X3.  Yes you had to wait too late to get them though, and the ride armors were mostly useless but it at least gave me something to go back for. 

Now X's armor upgrades.  The buster.  It really could have been stronger, but it WAS visually impressive, and it did have one good use.  Fire it in a straight away and chase after it as it destroys all minor enemies in front of you.  Though it needed to be more powerful for that purpose.  I get that they were going for a room cleaner though.  The individual shots are for bosses.  The only real change that needed was for the uncharged shots to be more like the X2 shots.

The Leg upgrade was nice and I liked vertical dashing, but it needed to be much faster.  The Blade armor in X6 was vertical dashing done right.

I don't mind the limitations on where to use Zero, but the one life and you lose him forever restriction made anyone too paranoid to use him, which really hurt the overall fun of the game.

All the extra bosses.  Who could hate more character bosses?  If anything, we didn't see ENOUGH of them.  I'd liked to have seen one change though.

If you kill bit or byte, the survivor merges with the remnants of the dead one to create the first Doppler stage boss.  If you kill both you fight something else.  If you kill neither they still merge.  I'd have liked one more option, which would be to fight Bit and Byte at the same time if you killed neither.

I'd also liked to have been able to fight Vile in the Goliath armor with Zero, as a sort of rematch from X1.  Having the mosqito take out Zero was kind of weak.  Vile running over to Zero and self destructing could have been awesome.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Hypershell on March 29, 2009, 08:49:18 PM
What if you haven't played X1 or X2?
Then you have a lot of guts showing your face in front of any X-series fans. :P
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Fxeni on March 29, 2009, 10:07:27 PM
Wanna know why the enemies hurt so much and have so much defense? I'll tell you why... to make up for the weakass boss AI. That was probably the quickest way to make the game more difficult, and since they were obviously strapped for time for whatever (probably self imposed) reason, they went that way.

I'll have to agree that Sigma was a fun fight in X3. If you go in unarmoured and have absolutely no items, he can kill you in 2 shots, so you have to be really careful.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Flame on March 29, 2009, 10:10:52 PM
One factor that messed the game up was the mess of a sprite the armor was.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Hypershell on April 01, 2009, 01:49:35 AM
I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who noticed...

Lacking access to the internet at the time of X2, I didn't honestly know what Zero's redesigned armor was supposed to look like.  X3 was the obvious indicator to me that the designs were too complex for the sprites.  Main reason I want to smack these "ZOMG MAKE SNES X9" people in the face.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Bag of Magic Food on April 01, 2009, 02:00:27 AM
Well then they shouldn't have made the design so complex.  Why do you think the Megaman Legends Megaman was designed with such blocky armor?
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Hypershell on April 01, 2009, 02:07:04 AM
It's just a testament to how "evolved" the series was becoming, though, that even as of their 2nd entry they already were botching up on that level.  The simplistic designs, X1 excepted, are generally Classic-series material.  It's part of what helps differentiate the two.

Who knows, that may have something to do with why they started pulling out all the stops in X2.  Remember, X2/MM7 was the first time two MegaMan series coexisted.

And I don't know what the hell you're talking about with Legends.  First of all, Trigger got redesigned between the two entries, and secondly there isn't a whole lot "blocky" about his design, certainly not when you compare L1 art to L1 visuals.  Barring the helmet, which he doesn't start with, his design is unusually rounded.  There aren't a whole lot of edges on him, but there is a fair share of fine detail.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Bag of Magic Food on April 01, 2009, 02:14:41 AM
X1 and 6 don't count as co-existing because they were on different systems?
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Hypershell on April 01, 2009, 02:20:42 AM
In all honesty 4-6 kinda blur together in my head.  Still, Classic sticking to the NES keeps a sort of boundary between the two series that 7 broke down.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
Post by: Flame on April 01, 2009, 02:48:01 AM
I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who noticed...

Lacking access to the internet at the time of X2, I didn't honestly know what Zero's redesigned armor was supposed to look like.  X3 was the obvious indicator to me that the designs were too complex for the sprites.  Main reason I want to smack these "ZOMG MAKE SNES X9" people in the face.
I was referring to X's X3 armor.
I personally liked X3 Zero's sprites.
Title: Re: What Would Make X3 a Truly Great Game
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