X7-X8 never happend?

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Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #25 on: April 10, 2010, 12:59:35 AM
If ya ask me, i'll say to just wait it out.  X4, X7, X8, and CM didn't really have maverick virus as a main focus.

Plus the X story is a bit open in small points of interpretation.  Depending on one's imagination.

side: KH is complicated?  I guess I must be [tornado fang]ing stupid to understand it lol.



Offline Mirby

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Reply #26 on: April 10, 2010, 01:01:00 AM
I don't think it's that complicated...

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Offline Akira

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Reply #27 on: April 10, 2010, 01:05:54 AM
What? and Axl???, model A is based on him D:



Offline Mirby

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Reply #28 on: April 10, 2010, 01:09:39 AM
SHH NO IT ISN'T IT'S MODEL ALBERT NOT MODEL AXL! *shot*

Yeah, I know...

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Offline Jukebox_Hero

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Reply #29 on: April 10, 2010, 01:16:14 AM
Hooray! I'm actually pretty okay with this whole idea. Don't get me wrong, I like the latter X games, but they really, REALLY made no sense and had nothing to do with the X/Zero series getting connected. Frankly I'm 100% fine with X's wimpy pacifist breakdown in X7 never happening, either.

Axl getting unborn is a nice bonus too.  ;) But seriously, Axl is alright, but him never existing won't make me lose any sleep.

But yeah, I like this idea, I'm glad they're tring to tie everything together and make sense of this mess.

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Reply #30 on: April 10, 2010, 01:20:22 AM
Leave. Now. The Axl Defense Squad commands you!

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Offline Saber

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Reply #31 on: April 10, 2010, 01:20:51 AM
I see nothing in that text that disagrees with our current perception of the canon, which includes X7~8. It simply sums up the relevant points, with disregard of time passage. Take note that Light could have never finished X immediately following Rockman10. In that same vein, it's clear that Zero was not immediately discovered as the source of the Sigma Virus, following X6. This extra time is not taken into account in telling its story. And there's a lot of leeway here.

If Inti is ever to write a ZX summary, I'm sure the story of X7~XCM will be mentioned to introduce the origin of Albert's power.





Offline KoiDrake

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Reply #32 on: April 10, 2010, 01:25:38 AM
Doppler never existed because the text doesn´t mention him either


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Reply #33 on: April 10, 2010, 01:27:42 AM
I didn't see the text mention the X4 events either... or did I?

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Offline Sub Tank

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Reply #34 on: April 10, 2010, 01:28:27 AM
Happened.

You may all continue.



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Reply #35 on: April 10, 2010, 01:32:01 AM
Okay... I was about to recheck the link...

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Offline Flame

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Reply #36 on: April 10, 2010, 01:36:31 AM
Oh [tornado fang] what have they done. someone stop them before they mess this [parasitic bomb] up further.
they HAD to make it that confusing eh.
Goddamnit. now we have to invest time in clearing idiots of suspicions that those games never happened an are 'just fanservice" like that one idiot said.

Thank you capcom!/Inti!/Whatever!

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


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Reply #37 on: April 10, 2010, 01:37:55 AM
FLAME SMASH!

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Reply #38 on: April 10, 2010, 01:39:30 AM
While the timeline doesn't necessarily invalidate post-X6 events, it does raise an eyebrow at the Nightmare being associated with Zero's research stasis.  That's a heck of a bomb to drop, as X6 was very ambiguous and did not give any indication as to whether the sealing was related to the rest of the in-game events.  To reconcile this with the full X-series, it means the topic of the Nightmare needs to get dug up again.  Not terribly difficult, given how X8 references X5, but still, it'd be interesting to see how that happens.

I also find it fascinating that they've placed such a link, the Nightmare leading to Sigma Virus research leading to Cyber-Elves, considering the many correlations between the Nightmare and Cyber-Elves.  The large scale control of Reploids by a single master, the manipulation of reality, the stable existence of a program object in the substance world free of any host, and the resulting vulnerability to substance world weaponry.  These are all things that the Nightmare and Cyber-Elves share.

Anyway, X7-XCM doesn't really impact the Zero-series, short of Orbital Elevators.  The definite bigger impact is on ZX, so what Zan said earlier seems to apply.

Firstly, taking these concepts at face value, Command Mission seems to be pushed to its own timeline unless that story itself was part of the Elf Wars. Zero's 50 year first sealing, the Elf Wars, as well as all of the X series incidents are now reported to fit into a 100 year period (all 1XX years ago). The only other option would be X1's back story taking place in circa 2155, and Command Mission being one of Zero's late adventures before his first sealing.
Is there any reason Cain cannot be using a computer program with 41 year old copyrights (which for some reason have not been renewed)?  Because XCM could easily be early 22XX, with the Force Metal meteor having been identified in 2202.

The main issue as I see it is trying to reconcile the 1XX dates with Inticreate's self-expanded series gap.  Due to Elf Wars, approximate timeframe from Zero's research-stasis to Zero-series is not 100 years but 150 years.  Which means everything from Zero's birth to that point, including the entirety of the X-series, needs to be crammed into a less than 50 year window.  While the year 2200 falls between XCM and the rest of the series, the actual time gap has not been stated.  Nor has Inti, while telling us that everything we know is wrong, chosen to re-adopt the label of "22XX" for the Zero-series, which they otherwise would have been well reasonable in doing, in light of the timeframe estimates they've given.  XCM may be the reason for that.

Placing the "200 year marker" between the birth of X and the birth of Zero was a really odd move, IMHO.  Whether we're trying to account for X7-XCM (necessary for ZX Advent) or not, it really does seem to indicate that Wily-ghost was still building Zero very near the X-series.  Otherwise, the birth of X and the birth of Zero should not be separated to such a degree.

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Do they have to rewrite history every time we get one of these things? I mean, is it that hard to reveal new things without altering old ones? I feel like I'm getting too old for this.
I feel for you.  This is getting ridiculous, and is the textbook example of why I wish Inticreates was relegated to the post-Zero-series era rather than commanding the MegaMan saga as a whole.  It was popular fanon that the continuing X-series was the reason for the X-to-Zero series gap rewrite, but we know from MMZOCW that was not the case, it was in fact for Dark Elf.  In other words, Inti rewrote their own backstory.  Here, they did it again, extending as far back as the Classic series.  And to what end?  This isn't even a new game, it's a compilation.  Granted, we don't know how much of this is them and how much is Inafune, but I just get this impression that Inti cannot stand by what has already been established.

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Reply #39 on: April 10, 2010, 01:42:38 AM
So Inti loves retconning then...

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Offline Zan

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Reply #40 on: April 10, 2010, 02:28:33 AM
Having gone over it again. I can say this with certainty; the majority of this new info really all coincides with what we already knew.

Relating Evil Energy/Roboenza to Sigma Virus and X's immunity is all fine and dandy. The details about Zero's mental state also heavily goes with established views on the difference between X4 Zero, X5 Zero and Omega. Zero's sealing as a result of X6 is all fine and dandy even with what X7~XCM established. I have no qualms with Mother Elf's origin, the change from Maverick Wars to Elf Wars, and I'm absolutely loving the new details on Project Elpis.

Where the entire text falls apart is only in two peculiar spots:
-1XX years ago Zero was made whereas X was made more than 200 years ago.
-Zero changed to good by the Sigma Virus.

The former could easily be a labeling error, or an actual plot point. If taken at face value, Wily's post mortum activities suddenly got even more interesting. I don't see it mattering that much toward XCM. Since no matter which answer we have to this issue, we wouldn't be trying to reach 20XX by time traveling 1XX years from ZERO anyway. Unless you really want to try with some generous XX values.

The latter has been a big point ever since RZOCW's original release. But this time without unfortunate implication toward X's worrying. It's quite controversial still, but I can see how it works out. The added explanation certainly helps.

All in all, I would take those two points with a grain of salt, but I think if we discuss to this we might come to some answers to age old mysteries. After all, both these controversial points have become innately tied by Inafune saying Wily was revived by the virus.

And before I forget, most of all, say bye bye to your Zero-Cataclysm theory, you Zero-Cataclysm fanboys!



Offline marshmallow man

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Reply #41 on: April 10, 2010, 03:06:42 AM
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Hooray! I'm actually pretty okay with this whole idea. Don't get me wrong, I like the latter X games, but they really, REALLY made no sense and had nothing to do with the X/Zero series getting connected. Frankly I'm 100% fine with X's wimpy pacifist breakdown in X7 never happening, either.

Axl getting unborn is a nice bonus too.

Maybe if Zero didn't show up at the Highway, Axl would have been recaptured by Red Alert without any trouble, and subsequently used by Sigma. Then again, if X never retired, maybe Red Alert would never be founded, and Red would never have found Axl. It'd be fun to imagine what would have happened under changed circumstances.  Still it's difficult for me to want to throw out all that history, even contradictory history.

I certainly think both options are worth considering, since it's been up to a certain level of interpretation from years ago, ever since the Perfect Memories book posed the initial question of when and how Zero's sealing actually takes place, and attempted no answer at all. What if how we'd always interpreted the X Compendium's "X6 > Zero seal?" thing as a questionable later event was actually meant to be an indicator for a branching timeline? Or for that "no matter how you continue the Mega Man series" Inti remark actually being in reference to the idea that 2 differing timeline branches were both headed for the same ultimate destination?

CM is probably the easiest to drop, since it's been called a gaiden in a few official places,  was always a bit abrasive even to X8, and supposedly the director or someone made a remark that CM is to the X series as the Dragon Ball Z movies are to the tv shows.

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Is there any reason Cain cannot be using a computer program with 41 year old copyrights (which for some reason have not been renewed)?  Because XCM could easily be early 22XX, with the Force Metal meteor having been identified in 2202.

I don't have a problem with Cain's equipment being weirdly old, but I do wonder how long Light and Wily are living. Does Light seem 100 years old in the Day of Sigma? That'd be about what he'd need to be...

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Granted, we don't know how much of this is them and how much is Inafune, but I just get this impression that Inti cannot stand by what has already been established.

Since this page is on Capcom's website, I'm placing the blame on both.

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The former could easily be a labeling error, or an actual plot point. If taken at face value, Wily's post mortum activities suddenly got even more interesting.

Thinking back I felt like there was something somewhere that made it seem like Wily completed Zero before death, but I can't figure what if anything concrete led me to that impression. I guess I'll dig for it later.

For now, I was just thinking about how apparently the Big 4 must have never met X while he was physically alive, and while that might make sense as to why they followed Copy X so willingly, I'm a bit confused by how intimate a relationship they seem to share with the real one in the drama tracks. It seemed like they had more of a mutual history than that.



Offline Zan

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Reply #42 on: April 10, 2010, 03:20:43 AM
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I don't have a problem with Cain's equipment being weirdly old, but I do wonder how long Light and Wily are living. Does Light seem 100 years old in the Day of Sigma? That'd be about what he'd need to be...

Two things you could do, I suppose; take "100 years" from classic to X with a lot of leeway, or assume 200X was retconned by Rockman Rockman. Compendium of RockmanX states "approximately" and "about" 100 years, though. But, I seem to distinctly recall some mentions of it having to be "more than/at least" 100 years.

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Thinking back I felt like there was something somewhere that made it seem like Wily completed Zero before death, but I can't figure what if anything concrete led me to that impression. I guess I'll dig for it later.

Like with the other reference, I think there was a recent statement in regards to the timeframe when Wily sealed Zero, but I can't remember where I would find such a quote.

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For now, I was just thinking about how apparently the Big 4 must have never met X while he was physically alive, and while that might make sense as to why they followed Copy X so willingly, I'm a bit confused by how intimate a relationship they seem to share with the real one in the drama tracks. It seemed like they had more of a mutual history than that.

I know you hear this request a lot, but at the moment all people that can't read Japanese are kinda out of the loop. Would you be willing to supply us with translations of the relevant character biographies? From your posts, the facts contained therein seem quite interesting.

On the Big4 note, though, some rethinking of the "Shining Arms" is now in order. Much like the time placement of X's seal remains a constant point of question. That would make them very very young, and incapable of fighting in Elf Wars.



Offline Mirby

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Reply #43 on: April 10, 2010, 03:23:02 AM
Thanks for that idea, Zan. Which reminds me... I NEED TO LEARN JAPANESE!

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Offline Acid

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Reply #44 on: April 10, 2010, 03:25:25 AM
Thanks for that idea, Zan. Which reminds me... I NEED TO LEARN JAPANESE!

Or force Japan to learn English.



Offline marshmallow man

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Reply #45 on: April 10, 2010, 03:35:25 AM
I wouldn't mind doing translations (if Heat Man doesn't beat me to it), but I want to be accurate, and some of the kanji are quite tiny. On a related note, does anyone know how to rip the text from a flash page? I seriously hate the way that page is set up.



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Reply #46 on: April 10, 2010, 03:39:55 AM
Post a link, and one of the kanji-masters from here could translate it.

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Offline Hypershell

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Reply #47 on: April 10, 2010, 04:31:34 AM
I don't have a problem with Cain's equipment being weirdly old, but I do wonder how long Light and Wily are living. Does Light seem 100 years old in the Day of Sigma? That'd be about what he'd need to be...
On Light's age, you never know.  A 20XX full of robotics is bound to make a few medical breakthroughs.

Either way, I think we have a lot more leeway there than we do elsewhere in the timeline.  If you figure "approximately" 100 years, 10 or 20 in either direction could make a world of difference.  We don't have a whole lot of extra events mucking up the relation between the two series, such as X-to-Zero.  If X were sealed for, say, 120 years, it would still be "approximately" 100 years, and Light's age would be far less of an issue.  I mean, he *IS* deteriorating over the course of X's construction, so he's probably getting up there.

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CM is probably the easiest to drop, since it's been called a gaiden in a few official places,  was always a bit abrasive even to X8, and supposedly the director or someone made a remark that CM is to the X series as the Dragon Ball Z movies are to the tv shows.
Even a DBZ movie can have a timeline impact (see Dead Zone > Garlic Jr. Saga).  They just usually don't for the sake of convenience; the TV series events are tied so closely that there's more often than not no feasible place to fit the movie in (such as Tree of Might).

I would think that XCM, being a mainstream console game, is valid until proven otherwise.  And nothing has done so.  In fact, it establishes a precedent that carries into ZX Advent, that being the enhanced A-Trans.  Furthermore, for as badly as Inticreates likes mucking up what we thought we knew, they also enjoy digging up obscure titles.  I think they would actually be LESS likely to write off Command Mission than Capcom themselves would.

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Thinking back I felt like there was something somewhere that made it seem like Wily completed Zero before death, but I can't figure what if anything concrete led me to that impression. I guess I'll dig for it later.
It's probably just popular notion of Zero being sealed to go after X, since that was the best rational explanation we had for Wily to not unleash him immediately.  Now that's out the window, as is the notion that Zero was completed anywhere near the same time as X at all, unless that page was one hell of a typo.

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For now, I was just thinking about how apparently the Big 4 must have never met X while he was physically alive, and while that might make sense as to why they followed Copy X so willingly, I'm a bit confused by how intimate a relationship they seem to share with the real one in the drama tracks. It seemed like they had more of a mutual history than that.
Having been born of X they probably feel a kinship with him regardless of whether or not they met the original, although it is rather confusing how only one part in five retains such a strong likeness to the original, as well as how the other four got their bodies and so forth.  That sounds to me like a line that needs a LOT more explaining.

I will say this, though.  It could definitely go a ways to explaining the Big Four's characters for them to have not met X during the Elf Wars.  The expanded info on Project Elpizo seemingly validates Weil's actions during Elf Wars; it makes X out as one who actively and forcefully opposed extremist but official large-scale Maverick control.  In other words, he did then exactly what Zero did during the Zero-series.  It's no wonder the original backs the Resistance in such a case, but the Big Four are almost completely out of touch with that aspect of X's character.  The only one who came remotely close was Harpuia.

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Reply #48 on: April 10, 2010, 04:42:00 AM
That, and since they were originally part of X himself, they feel the need to obey X. And since the true X, the fifth part of his soul that became the X that helps, wasn't really there, the Big Four followed Copy X. Maybe the reason they don't have that aspect is that the entire aspect was passed on to Cyber-elf X. That make sense?

Think about this. Fefnir got his aggression, Leviathan his femininity, Harpuia part of his sense of justice, and Phantom the... umm... SHADOW ARMOR!

That makes sense to me.

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Offline Flame

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Reply #49 on: April 10, 2010, 04:53:07 AM
I LOVE how they did this thing with Zero where he was sealed because Wily couldnt control him. I thought that was what the virus was for?
it DOES however, actually fit right in with X4's pre X1 maverick Zero. bloodthirsty monster with NO rational thought process at all. until  headache.

strangely, it makes sense, but I do miss the idea that it was "just as planned" until "chance" had Sigma pwn Zero and switch sides with him.

Or even, the idea that it really wasnt just as planned. Yet. Zero was disturbed prematurely, and was not fully awakened under the virus in him. thus was what he was in the flashback. the "W" headache was actually something to do with that. maybe it was his system awakening or something? but Sigma punched him out. and he never awakened.
Or something like that.

Actually, it could be- going with this new thing, that thats the reason for the virus itself. To control the monstrous Zero which Wily himself could not keep under control. The virus would "awaken" him, and make him more like what we see in X5

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.