Zero after Ragnarok

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Offline Klavier Gavin

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Reply #50 on: November 15, 2008, 09:35:25 PM
Very well, here's the undeniable proof Zero's dead. He finally found the answer to his most urgent question and thus he saw no reason to continue living. Are you ready? It's a shock.
Pregnant women and people with weak hearts better leave RPm now... OK? There:

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

O:



Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Reply #51 on: November 15, 2008, 09:35:50 PM
Zeors alive he pretty cool he kills marvericks and doesn't afraid of anything

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The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
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a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

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Offline MassKiller1

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Reply #52 on: November 15, 2008, 09:40:32 PM
O:

Then what was he doing fighting in RMZ? His memory was damaged (sorry if you're joking and I take this too serious - -")

Searching for the answers, meanings within the answers...


Offline Thanatos-Zero

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Reply #53 on: November 15, 2008, 09:43:45 PM
Very well, here's the undeniable proof Zero's dead. He finally found the answer to his most urgent question and thus he saw no reason to continue living. Are you ready? It's a shock.
Pregnant women and people with weak hearts better leave RPm now... OK? There:

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

 ::) Well, I know that Zero is the guy, who throws his life away to rescue world and friends, but this implies not his death beyond any symbols. Of course, if Inafune want it, then I will accept it.



Offline Acid

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Reply #54 on: November 15, 2008, 09:46:10 PM
This

I take this too serious - -")

Goes for you as well:
::) Well, I know that Zero is the guy...



Offline Tickle Buffalo

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Reply #55 on: November 15, 2008, 09:46:35 PM
And I never said he was alive for the next 200 years...just that he survived Ragnarok.

What the hell happened to him, then? I mean, if he can survive having a space station explode around him, what on earth would be capable of killing him? He'd need to headbutt a nuke, or something. Multiple nukes even.



Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Reply #56 on: November 15, 2008, 09:52:29 PM
if he can survive having a space station explode around him, what on earth would be capable of killing him?
If I had to make an educated guess...

EDIT: fix'd.

Quote
The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
Quote
a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

--

Whenever it comes to "consensus" and things alike, always remember Tony Bullet-Tooth's sage advice:
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."


Offline Pringer X

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Offline Flame

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Reply #58 on: November 15, 2008, 09:58:07 PM


Yes, there is proof, it is the word of god (that's the term used so don't say anything >_>) AKA Inafune.

   
the word of god indeed.



...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Align

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Reply #59 on: November 15, 2008, 10:03:46 PM
I meant data as in information on Zero. You mean it as a soul.
If such a thing were true don't you think that Ceil would have said it differently (like maybe Zero or Zero's cyber elf)? If the soul of Zero WAS used then I wonder where Ceil got X's soul (cyber elf) along with the guardians.
From the abyss? If it was just data about them, rather than their data, the biometals would be little more than futuristic file cabinets.



Offline Fxeni

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Reply #60 on: November 15, 2008, 10:07:02 PM
I just wanted to say that a lot of topics being made lately involving Zero are absolutely ridiculously stupid. I just thought I'd point that out, even though I know people are gonna flip out at me. Whatever, it's just the truth.

Also, I fail to see a "big mystery" when it comes to the end of Z4. It's just a case of people not wanting to accept things as they are, plain and simple.



Offline Saber

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Reply #61 on: November 15, 2008, 10:07:51 PM
I am betting that not even Capcom knows what happened to Zero afterward (they're too lazy to come up with something). The last two sentences from the quote above basically has Capcom saying that no one knows for a fact what happened to Zero. Also this may be used to spark new theories by fans. The truth is that Capcom still is waiting to see if they are going to make a RMZ5 (if there are enough fan demands on it) or just keep it a mystery to further Zero's legacy.

I believe by the time OCW hit the Japanese market, ZX wasn't even out yet. And even if it were, the book makes no referencing whatsoever about the series. Because the book by itself is only about Rockman ZERO. Of course they wouldn't mention what exactly happened to Zero because with the end of ZERO4, no one really knew, almost little to everything spoke for his death.

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...what you say about Model Z containing Zero's soul (lack of a better word) is wrong.

Cyberspace is the plane in which data of every being is stored. From Cyberspace, the real world can be manipulated, as demonstrated by Cyberelves. Souls of dead Repliroids go to Cyberspace and can become Cyberelves or, in Phantom's case, can become ghosts who wander around Cyberspace. The point is, Repliroid souls are still data. Model Z houses Zero's soul or at least part of it, because it has Zero's data. The Live Metals are still aware of their pasts, but they do not remember how they came to be I recall. The Live Metals of the Big4 for example still adress Model X as Model-X-sama in the Japanese version.





Offline Acid

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Reply #62 on: November 15, 2008, 10:09:20 PM
Also, I fail to see a "big mystery" when it comes to the end of Z4. It's just a case of people not wanting to accept things as they are, plain and simple.

Thanks for putting it into a single sentence.



Offline Solar

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Reply #63 on: November 15, 2008, 10:15:10 PM
Indeed

As I said:
Quote
Also, there's no way his destroyed helmet along the pieces of Ragnarok is a symbolic way to say "he's death", yep, definitely no way.


My life is currently bears and Jojos and everything is great.



Offline Saber

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Reply #64 on: November 15, 2008, 10:31:23 PM
Not to mention the credits of ZERO4. Unlike the previous games, it didn't just say Thanks for Playing, but instead they [Inti] thank Capcom and the player.





Offline Thanatos-Zero

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Reply #65 on: November 15, 2008, 10:35:43 PM
Cyberspace is the plane in which data of every being is stored. From Cyberspace, the real world can be manipulated, as demonstrated by Cyberelves. Souls of dead Repliroids go to Cyberspace and can become Cyberelves or, in Phantom's case, can become ghosts who wander around Cyberspace. The point is, Repliroid souls are still data.
If I think about, the Cyberspace is much like the Lifestream of FF7, and if we take the strong will into acount, then X, Zero and the Four Guardians are much like Sephiroth. Sephiroth´s strong will prevented to be merged with the Lifestream, so it the same with the others, but now, back to topic.



Offline Zan

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Reply #66 on: November 16, 2008, 01:52:27 AM
Quote
...what you say about Model Z containing Zero's soul (lack of a better word) is wrong.

Prairie: A long time ago, the world of humans and machines was saved by a group of legends. Biometal are fragments containing the consciousness of those legendary heroes. There might be some hint regarding the Maverick outbreaks in the data stored at the lab. Fleuve's personal laboratory is right next to the Transerver room. Take the Biometal data there for analysis. I'll be here analyzing the computer chip that you brought back.

Prairie: Yes, the soul of that man contained in a fragment of Ragnarok. That's Model W. Sis recognized its existance and set about to create something capable of fighting the threat. She used her research to create Biometal with the powers of legendary heroes from an age long ago.

Model P: It is our destiny across the ages to protect the world of Man. Let us once again become humanity's blade for striking down evil.

Model H: Hmph. Those humans we fought so hard to protect hundreds of years ago have been lulled into a false sense of security by the empty promise of peace. But I still believe our fight had meaning. So, young hero, yes I will lend you my strenght. Serpent has seperated my data into two halves. There is another Pseudoroid with the other part. If you can defeat it, I will be able to give you my password.

Model L: I am the Biometal of the Ice, Model L. Thank you for freeing me from that awful body. You're looking for the rest of the disk right? I'm sorry, but it has already been taken somewhere. A hundred years have passed since the war, but it looks like some things will never change.
Vent: A man named Serpent is attempting to reawaken Model W. To stop him, I need your help and the password.
Model L: Hmm... Model Z, I heard the story about Serpent. I know you were linked with a host body, but I heard he beat you in combat.
Model Z: Yes... My failure led to the death of a good man named Giro.
Model L: I see... Alright, I'll join you. It should be an interesting challenge to take on the one who bested the great Model Z. I'll give you my password, but the data is split into two halves. The other Pseudoroid with my power has the remaining half. I won't be able to give you the complete password until you defeat him.

Then there's the additional statement in the ZX guide that Livemetals have Cyber Elf-like abilities.

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One thing I want to bring up: It's Zero, and it's Capcom. Known for really bad ret-conning (seriously, Zero's ending in X6 makes his beginning in X7 impossible), they can come up with something.

Not a retcon, X6's Zero ending was never meant to take place directly after X6. In fact, if it did, it'd be in contradiction with X's ending. X7, X8 and XCM simply take place before Zero's X6 ending but after X's X6 ending.

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Here's my theory on the whole subject: Zero lived through the re-entry,
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I know, I'm just saying Zero didn't die IMMEDIATELY or DIRECTLY. More like, getting shot, and not dieing from the bullet piercing a vital organ but from blood-loss. At some point, the remaining Big 4 three croaked and Ciel made everyone happy little biometals.

You know, even if you can survive atmospheric re-entry, hitting the ground at terminal velocity will kill you.

As for the Big4.

Why were the Four Guardians excluded from Zero 4?

AIZU: A lot of people ask that question, but the reason is simply because they all died at the end of Zero 3, shielding Zero from the big explosion.
HONDA: But for some reason they still show up in the booklet for the soundtrack.
AIZU: That was just Nakayama being generous with his drawings. (laughs) In the booklet of the fourth Zero sountrack, there is an illustration of X standing on a tower with beams coming from the Four Guardians... I didn't ask Nakayama to draw it, though. He kind of already had it drawn. (laughs) Tell us, Nakayama! What point in the timeline is that image from?
NAKAYAMA: I'm not sure... when could it be?
AIZU: The timeframe and events of the illustration were a little fuzzy, so we just kind of threw it in there. (laughs)


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At the beginning of RMZ2 he fought alone until he found Ceil again.

With ZERO1 to ZERO2, Zero was separated from the resistance because he landed in the desert after atmospheric re-entry with X's assistance (which still knocked him unconscious) and the Resistance was subsequently attacked by Neo Arcadia and forced to flee and establish a new base.  As of ZERO4, he does not have that issue.

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And I never said he was alive for the next 200 years...just that he survived Ragnarok.

Way to ruin Zero's epic finale.

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Cyberspace was accessible because a rift was caused by the appearance of Omega. X in RMZ3 went to cyberspace because he was running outta power and "could not stay in this world any longer." The only soul (cyber elf) Ceil could possibly get her hands on was Zero's when and if his body was destroyed...

The doors to cyberspace exist to enter that realm yourself. As a scientist, you need not enter it, you simply need to acquire the data it holds. That is how Dr. Vile, a revival specialist, does it. He can acquire the data from cyberspace, reproduce that data to revive the Repliroid as a Cyber Elf before giving said Repliroid a new body. Ciel's areas of expertise is copying others and having an emphatic connection with Cyber Elves. She's not a revival specialist and only attained those abilities through her interaction with the Model V. She simply recovered the souls of the legendary heroes, that would have lived on as Cyber Elves until they had spent up all their energy, and put them inside of the Livemetal. All of the legendary heroes that became Livemetals have been previously set up to have died.




Offline Police Girl

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Reply #67 on: November 16, 2008, 05:09:38 AM
the word of god indeed.




That is the only truth, and its made of Epic Win.



Offline Flame

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Reply #68 on: November 16, 2008, 05:21:05 AM
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You know, even if you can survive atmospheric re-entry, hitting the ground at terminal velocity will kill you.
Not even Inafune can save Zero from something like that. XD

no wait...

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Way to ruin Zero's epic finale.
lol.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline VirusChris

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Reply #69 on: November 16, 2008, 07:29:10 AM
So much information to process... X(


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Offline Zan

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Reply #70 on: November 16, 2008, 01:37:35 PM
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lol.

To rephrase myself; Zero4's finale can only exist with Zero's heroic sacrifice, his very action whilst knowing his demise was imminent. Zero chose to rid the world of himself but whilst fighting for his true conviction. Everything about Zero himself is brought full circle in that ending. It is the epitome of why Zero the destroyer is a hero. The sheer epic nature of Zero telling Vile what he did in that drastic scenario made the finale highly enjoyable. Even with Ciel's sad moments that followed, everything was set up so that the player for once would experience what it meant to be Zero and why he would dare to throw his life away, that is something neither X1 nor X5 managed to portray.

ZERO: I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero... I have always fought for the people I believe in. I won't hesitate... If an enemy appears in front of me, I will destroy it!



Offline Jericho

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Reply #71 on: November 16, 2008, 04:54:43 PM
-post goes here-

Where is my clapping gif when I need it? This, as much as it caught me off guard when I first played the game, is just nothing short of good writing and one of the reasons why I love the Zero series for what it is/was.



Offline Flame

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Reply #72 on: November 16, 2008, 06:33:34 PM
Zero's broken helmet lying on the ground still brings tears to my eyes.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Fxeni

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Reply #73 on: November 16, 2008, 10:00:46 PM
All of the above is why Zero should remain dead after Z4. It would cheapen the meaning of the whole thing, much like it did back in X1 and X5 for me. Inti seems to have a somewhat better grasp on storytelling in that sense than Capcom on it's own, thank Elysium.



Offline Jericho

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Reply #74 on: November 16, 2008, 10:09:53 PM
thank Elysium.

I chuckled. XD

Also inticreates for Legends/DASH 3 storyline, Y/N?