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Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => Original => Topic started by: DiveMissle on August 27, 2013, 01:28:10 AM

Title: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: DiveMissle on August 27, 2013, 01:28:10 AM
I don't get it :\
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 02:22:26 AM
Because you get to refight the bosses from MM2 and it reminds everyone of how great of a game that was.

That and the soundtrack are the only reasons I could understand someone liking this game, as from a design standpoint it's probably the weakest of the NES games.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: DiveMissle on August 27, 2013, 02:28:11 AM
Thanks for the response MacDaddyMike :) To be honest I thought I was going to be flamed by fanboys :P
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: irgpie on August 27, 2013, 02:44:37 AM
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/f968b2f8234acaae1cd32a724144f369/tumblr_mh6seapwLU1rqqme8o1_500.png)
these threads.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 02:50:51 AM
Joking aside, I would be interested in having an actual discussion as to why it's so often placed near the top of the classic series rating when there's so much wrong with it.

What is it that MM3 does better than 4-6?
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Police Girl on August 27, 2013, 02:53:52 AM
Because you get to refight the bosses from MM2 and it reminds everyone of how great of a game that was.

Really now, because I honestly just see them as more bosses. Not a reminder of how "oh so great" MM2 was. Maybe because I don't really like MM2 that much, especially not now with it being the favorite pet.

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That and the soundtrack are the only reasons I could understand someone liking this game, as from a design standpoint it's probably the weakest of the NES games.

I'm going to retort and say Megaman 5 and 6 are the weakest fun-wise. Two fortresses was interesting in MM4, but doing again in MM5 and MM6... it wasn't necessary. Also, less music, MM4 has two songs per fortress and MM5/6 have one for each one, it wears on you after a while. The games are far too easy and every boss can easily be beaten with the Mega Buster, MM5 had a kind of interesting story, but that was really it. 6 was just boring all around, some of the music was okay but most of it sounded as tired as the game felt. the Mr. X stuff was stupid too since it was obviously Wily, making even less reason for there to be two [tornado fang]ing fortresses. I get that I'm talking about the fortresses a lot but that's honestly the most I remember from the games, the bosses for the most part were forgettable, weapons ranged from only okay to worthless (POWER STONE). The best part of MM6 was the Rush Adaptors but those were very circumstantial in use and outside of using Jet or Power for shortcuts mostly pointless.

Megaman 3 is vastly enjoyable and I prefer it far over 2, which I find to be a flawed and unfun experience after about 6 levels (Said levels being Metalman, Flashman, Woodman, Crashman, Heatman and Airman) Bubbleman's stage is boring, Quickman's is a pain in the ass, and the Fortress... well Boobeams pretty much ruin that for me as the rest of the levels/bosses are far too easy and that one just... ugh. But you want some stuff that it does better?

Okay.

1) No Two Fortresses, again MM4 did it and that was cool since its not something you expect at first (maybe) but 5 and 6 did it too, and it got old FAST.

2) Weapons were useful, I can't recall many useful weapons in either 5 or 6 but I know 4 had Pharaoh Shot and the Drill Bombs.

3) NO WILY CAPSULE, Again, when 4 did it, it was novel, something new. Then every other game did it. 3 was the last classic game with a proper final boss that didn't have a disappearing gimmick.

4) Best Rush Jet. Though I believe they went on to say it was supposed to be how it was in MM4-6 rather than what it was in three so this was unintentional I guess.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 03:23:05 AM
I see so many people pointing out Power Stone as a poor weapon, but it's actually one of the more effective and more fun weapons to use in MM5.  The game was designed around a lot of enemies that only take one hit to kill, and often putting them in areas of the room that are out of reach initially, so that you have to wait for them to close in on you before you can attack.  Power Stone can clear a lot of these rooms in one use, and even aside from that there are a lot of really great room layouts that take its shot pattern into effect.  I played a run of MM5 a while back where I tried to use the RM weapons more effectively, and Power Stone was a surprising hit.  I recommend you try to experiment with it more, you may find it worth your while in the end.

As for the points, I'd have to say that saying "it didn't have [blank]" is not a very strong argument when the alternative isn't any better.  For example:

1) Sure, there's one fortress, but it's the worst fortress of the entire series.  The stages are super short, it recycles two bosses from other Mega Man games (when there were only two others to draw from, yikes), and there's little to most of the stages (Wily 2 has three bee enemies in it and a forced Rush Jet segment that...requires no skill whatsoever).

2) Bad to pick out MM4 as your example, as it had the most well-balanced weapon set of the series until 9 came out.  Pharaoh Shot is aimable and chargeable, Ring is piercing, Dust can multi-hit, Dive can home, Toad is screen-clearing and ignores defense, Bright stops time, Skull is a barrier, and Drill is powerful, fast and can be manually ignited to get around certain defense layouts.  Every weapon is useful and every weapon is UNIQUE, among the others in that game anyway.

Look at MM3's weapon set:
Search Snake - ground-traveling attack, can climb walls
Shadow Blade - projectile, fired in a straight line, can be aimed in multiple directions
Needle Cannon - projectile, fired in a straight line, fast attack
Gemini Laser - projectile, fired in a straight line, bounces off of surfaces
Magnet Missile - projectile, fired in a straight line, trajectory can be changed once without player input
Hard Knuckle - projectile, fired in a straight line, trajectory can be slightly altered by player input
Spark Shot - projectile, fired in a straight line, can freeze enemies, does no damage
Top Spin - aerial melee attack, incredibly glitchy with response to energy usage, trajectory of jump can be affected by enemies, hitbox inconsistent

Suffice to say, a lot of it is "samey", and there are a couple that are complete duds.  Top Spin could be viable if there was any situation in which a projectile would be worse than a melee attack, but that's never the case, and it's so glitchy that it's a danger to ever use it in the first place.  Hard Knuckle is too slow to be effective in most encounters.  Spark Shot doesn't actually damage anything.  Gemini Laser is both slow and weak, and if you miss your shot you have to wait for it to run out before you can shoot again or switch weapons.  Needle Cannon is just a fast Mega Buster, and the game isn't designed with the Search Snake in mind, as there are very few situations in which you're above enemies and that's where the snake movement pattern would be most effective--as it is, it's again too weak of a weapon.  Magnet Missile and Shadow Blade are the only two that I could ever see being useful throughout the entire game.

I'd argue that MM3's weapon set is by far the worst of the series.  You have 7 projectiles that all fire directly in front of you whose specific characteristics are mostly not very effective, and one melee attack that's glitchy and dangerous to use.

3) No Wily Capsule, but the final boss of MM3 is beyond pathetic.  You can stand underneath him indefinitely and not get hurt, and then he dies in one hit.  I'd take any of the series' Wily Capsules over this fight (except MM7, cause that fight's so annoying).

4) Rush Jet was completely broken and made every platforming segment in the entire game skippable.  Changing it to the MM4's Jet was definitely a much-needed change.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Police Girl on August 27, 2013, 03:56:32 AM
2) Bad to pick out MM4 as your example, as it had the most well-balanced weapon set of the series until 9 came out.

Yeah... I'm not going to say 9 had a bad weapon line-up per se but I find it bad level design to force usage of said weapons to progress, never once did I find use for Tornado Blow or Concrete Shot outside of using them to dull out some obstacle, and in the case of those [tornado fang]ing lasers in Wily Fortress 4 half the time the stupid thing would miss and I'd run out before getting to the teleporters. And even then I never found actual use in Black Hole Bomb, Magma Cannon, Plug Ball, or Jewel Satellite (Outside of farming for Telly drops). Hornet Chaser was good for a few things, primarily Angry Rock and Laser Trident was the best weapon in the game. Not that its saying much since I loathe Megaman 9.

Also:

2) Weapons were useful, I can't recall many useful weapons in either 5 or 6 but I know 4 had Pharaoh Shot and the Drill Bombs.

I should point out that I really enjoy Megaman 4, its easily my favorite 8-bit right behind 3. I do find some weapons useful, but a lot of them were just not very useful to my playstyle (For example, I don't use barriers outside of boss weaknesses or for stupid [parasitic bomb] like Telly swarms, and some weapons are just too conditional to be of much use elsewhere.) Its cool and all that you can find uses for stupid [parasitic bomb] like Power Stone or Charge Kick or hell maybe even Centaur Flash but I sure as hell can't.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: DiveMissle on August 27, 2013, 04:17:30 AM
I think Gamma is the worst Mega Man final boss ever.It's because he's so EASY.Here's how I beat him:Shoot him with shadow blade upward and then for the second half jump on the fist and hit him with top spin and then you beat him ::)
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 04:32:52 AM
Dude, Charge Kick is top three weapons in the entire classic series.  Most people don't even know that you're INVINCIBLE when you use it.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: DiveMissle on August 27, 2013, 05:20:08 AM
I always like to pull out charge kick when I beat a robot master and just slide back and fourth :D
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: kuja killer on August 27, 2013, 08:58:15 AM
when i was 5 or 6 years old, i went over to my next door neighbors house one time to play my friends NES, and megaman 3 which he had, was the very first megaman game i ever played in my life. :)

that's why 3 was my favorite, because it was my first experience ever for a mm game. :)
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 27, 2013, 03:04:38 PM
3 was the first MM game I ever played and one of the first NES games I ever played.  So a lot of it is nostalgia.

It has great music.  I loved the glitches.  They were a real blast back then.  Rush Jet is in it's best, most broken iteration back then.  I liked Doc Robot.  True story: for kicks I was trying to enter in a password in MM3's password screen and just happened to get one that took me right to the Doc Robot stages with one set defeated!  It blew my mind and they looked very creepy in their 8-bit mugshots (less so in actual official art of them.  And Protoman was cool.  His music was cool and his secret as MM's brother was cool. 

My little kid self even liked Top Spin.  As useless as it was I'd still go top-spinning down long drops, endlessly amused by the animation.

I think it's best to remember that, at the time, Topspin's 1-hit kill on Gamma was completely unknown.  Back then Search Snakes were the recommended way of beating Gamma in every strategy book.  And the Doc Robot stages, while quite long, did dole out passwords, so it's not like you had to beat them all in one sitting.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 03:50:19 PM
The appreciation for the Doc stages always surprises me.  I figure you can either think it's a good idea or a bad idea, but for both the end result should be disappointment.  I'd rather have brand new stages instead of retreading already-used stage layouts and fighting bosses I already fought before in the previous game, so the whole thing comes off as lazy to me.  But let's say you like the Doc stages--why only 4?  Why can't we revisit Magnet, Top, Snake and Hard Man's stages too?  Even if you like the Doc stages, you're at best getting half of a good idea.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 27, 2013, 04:02:43 PM
8 may be overdoing it.  The game's already the longest MM game, do we really need an additional 4 stages added to that?

It's unfair to say the Doc Robot stages have the same layout as previous ones.  They have the same skin and music, yes, but the layout's different.  That's the point of them.  Personally, I think it's cool that the MM2 bosses are kinda back in Doc Robot form.  It's neat that the height different makes a few of them harder than before.  And it's nice to see the nod to a previous game, again, something that didn't happen before in the series.  I guess it's diluted now, with bosses reappearing all the time, but it was neat to be able to refight bosses, but with your new abilities.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 05:11:03 PM
It's weird to me that 3 gets so much credit when it has the least amount of new content of any of the NES games.  There are 8 new robot masters, but 8 old ones.  4 re-used stage layouts with different enemy placement and one forced jet and marine section.  Only 1 new fortress boss, aside from the final bosses, in what is already the shortest fortress of the entire series.  I don't think the slide and Rush makes up for all that, especially since MM4-6 have that and so much more.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 27, 2013, 05:26:25 PM
8 old robot masters don't negate 8 new ones AND it's the first time robot masters were reused, itself new content.  The 8 Doc Robot stages can even be seen as a precursor to the "fake castle" seen in most other MM games.  

Again, the doc Robot layouts are different.  You're nuts if you think they're the same with different enemy placement.  Go look up the maps.  Parts are similar, sure, but the same?  No.

Rush and the abilities he brought with him were new.  The Rush Coil was FAR superior to items 1 and 3, while jet was superior to 2.  Sure, every other game after it had Rush.  That's how MM works. But it was 3 that brought the dog into the series and he changed the way MM games were conceived of.   Because 3 brought in Rush other games brought in Tango, Beat, and Teble.  None of that would have happened without Rush.

The Triple clone is completely different than copy rock in MM1.  Don't see how they count as the same.  Sure the final fortress is smaller, but you have 4 doc robot stages with two bosses a piece, so it's not like length is a problem.  

Protoman's also all new to 3 and he's a BIG inclusion.  Rush and Proto were the first time Megaman's cast was expanded and they've had an undeniable impact on MM's world.

Another thing 3 established was the "Wily didn't do it" shtick.  4's more known for it, but 3's story was the first time Wily pretended not to be behind attacks by robot masters.  This didn't affect anything in-game (aside from some batteries in Magnet's level), but it did set a precedent that would take over the series for a long time.  

Also, I get you don't like Doc Robot, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.  

And you're wrong to discount the slide so quickly.  It really changed boss patters and it was the precursor to the dash.

Edit: Another new thing introduced in 3: first time a boss pattern changed at half health.  That started with Gemini.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Pyro on August 27, 2013, 06:34:36 PM
3 sounds more like a refinement of its predecessor like 2 was a refinement of the original game in that respect.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 06:39:24 PM
8 old robot masters don't negate 8 new ones AND it's the first time robot masters were reused, itself new content.

Reusing old content is not new content.  It's reusing old content.

And the Doc stages aren't the "same", but they're not "new" either.  Same music, same visuals, same enemies (for the most part), and the only Doc stage that's significantly different in the shape of its map is Needle Man's (Doc Shadow is even the exact same shape as Shadow Man's stage).

Quote
But it was 3 that brought the dog into the series and he changed the way MM games were conceived of.   Because 3 brought in Rush other games brought in Tango, Beat, and Teble.  None of that would have happened without Rush.

By that logic, Rush would have never happened without the items in 2.  And the items in 2 would have never happened without the Magnet Beam.  I like Rush as much as anyone else, but when MM4-6 use him BETTER, then I don't think MM3 should be getting the credit just because they used him first.

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The Triple clone is completely different than copy rock in MM1.  Don't see how they count as the same.

The clone and the Devil both point to the same problem with MM3--it's lazy.  Why make new bosses when we can just change some old ones a little bit?  Why design new stages when we can just alter some old stages?  Why design new bosses for those stages when we can just copy-and-paste bosses from the last game (for no explicable in-game reason, for that matter)?  This game reeks of designers not putting in effort, and you can make all the excuses you want about it being rushed or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that the final product is lacking.

Quote
Protoman's also all new to 3 and he's a BIG inclusion.  Rush and Proto were the first time Megaman's cast was expanded and they've had an undeniable impact on MM's world.

If you're giving the game credit from a gameplay standpoint, I've gotta disagree.  The Protoman fights were silly and easy and unnecessary, and the "Break Man" fight was a waste of time.  If you're giving the game credit from a story standpoint, then I've also gotta disagree, because the story makes zero sense unless you read the instruction booklet, and that's never a good sign.  An opening cutscene would have helped that, but whoops, I almost forgot how lazy and sloppy this game is.

Quote
Another thing 3 established was the "Wily didn't do it" shtick.  4's more known for it, but 3's story was the first time Wily pretended not to be behind attacks by robot masters.

4's more known for it because a) it did it better, and b) because I'm willing to bet that over half of the people who played the game had no idea that Wily pretended to not be behind the attacks, because the story in this game is found only in the manual.

But yeah, the slide is cool.  MM4-6 has it too.  If more people were really willing to give credit to whatever games started trends that were bettered in the sequels, Mega Man 1 would be at the top of everyone's favorite list, I think.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 27, 2013, 06:53:44 PM
Reusing old bosses for the first time is new content.

While the shape of Doc Shadow's stage is similar, the traps are different. Different stage. 

Rush wouldn't have happened without the items, but 3 still introduced him.  If you're going to nix Rush from 3 you may as well nix every single item and armor upgrade in the entire franchise because they all ultimately stem from the Magnet Beam in 1. Other games may use him better (which is arguable since 3's Jet is the best IMO), but he got his start in 3.  And you're completely ignoring his place in the franchise outside of just the games.

The clone's TOTALLY different than 1's.  Is it the sprite that's throwing you off?  Because the boss is completely different in and of itself.  You're obviously not satisfied with the graphics and the idea of resuing bosses .... too bad!  Some of us don't mind it.  To you it makes the game lacking, but I like the usage of old bosses.

The Protoman fights were great.  Loved them as a kid.  Agree on "Breakman" being a waste, though.  And who cares if the story makes zero sense without the manual?  Stories were explained in manuals back then; it wasn't unusual.  It's only odd in context of the MM series as a whole, but not in context of the era.

Sure 4 did it better.  So what?  You said 3 didn't introduce new elements, but guess what?  it did.  Whatever or not you think other games did the idea better it got it's start in 3. 
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 07:08:40 PM
I didn't say MM3 didn't introduce new ideas, I said that the new content didn't make up for how much lazily-borrowed content there was.

If you're honestly convinced that refighting the MM2 bosses is in any way "new content", then there's no way we're ever going to agree on what "new content" is.

If you're satisfied by half of the game's bosses being reused--HALF--then I don't know what to tell you.  When I buy a new Mega Man game, I expect a fresh experience, not half of a game that feels like it was cobbled together from Frankenstein pieces of the last MM game I played.

When I look at MM3, I see a game that took little effort in comparison to the rest of the series.  Absense of story.  Reusing bosses.  Reusing stages.  Uninspired Protoman fights that you have to do four times.  Uninspired weapon set.  Horrible fortress stages.  The most laughably-bad final boss in the series.  Glitches abound.  Rush Jet so poorly tested that nobody realized how it completely broke the game.

The only things I can actually say I enjoy about MM3 these days are the soundtrack and the Gemini Man fight.  The other games just aren't as sloppy as this one.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 27, 2013, 07:13:36 PM
The most laughably-bad final boss in the series.

Okay, I'm just gonna chime in here since trying to explain why someone likes something is both pointless and silly, but how is MM4's final Wily Capsule not laughably-bad? He is so easily beaten with the uber-powerful glitched Pharaoh Shot that it's a goddamn joke. Even Arino beat him on GCCX for christ sake.

For the record, the ONLY Final Boss that actually offered a challenge is the MM7 Wily Capsule, which I find hiLAAAArious considering how many MM fans [sonic slicer] about how difficult or unfair it is. Pansies. PANSIES THE WHOLE LOT OF YOU!  8D
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 07:22:42 PM
It actually takes some degree of involvement to fight the Wily 4 capsule.  You have to dodge his attacks, react quickly to his spawn location and attack before you miss your window.  With Gamma you can stand underneath him, go make yourself a sandwich, write a short novel, have grandkids, and when you come back you'll still be fine.  And then you can attack him from underneath with the Shadow Blades without any fear of getting hit, and then when he gets to his second form you can kill him in one hit.

Wily Capsule > Gamma
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 27, 2013, 07:31:35 PM
It actually takes some degree of involvement to fight the Wily 4 capsule.  You have to dodge his attacks, react quickly to his spawn location and attack before you miss your window.

All of which is in-[tornado fang]ing-SANELY easy to do, especially when there is no goddamn threat of EVER losing your Weapon Energy in that fight. As I said before, the only time that doing what I just quoted is actually a challenge is in MM7 but apparently...

Quote
I'd take any of the series' Wily Capsules over this fight (except MM7, cause that fight's so annoying)

...it's too hard/annoying for some people!
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 07:35:26 PM
Hey SHUT UP  :P

By the way, I've been in the middle of the Gamma fight during this whole topic.  Haven't been hit yet.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Police Girl on August 27, 2013, 07:39:11 PM
And then you can attack him from underneath with the Shadow Blades without any fear of getting hit, and then when he gets to his second form you can kill him in one hit.

And if you do that, he can get you in one hit with his fists.

Its safer to not play coward.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 07:49:03 PM
Anyone who gets hit with that fist had it coming.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 27, 2013, 07:49:34 PM
If you can't see a precedent establishing element as new, then there's no hope for you and yeah, we're not gonna agree and there's no point in even arguing.

But it's true, there's really no point in arguing over why you like something peiod.  You like it or you don't.  Very subjective.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 07:58:41 PM
Would you consider the menu music in MM9 new?  It's the first time they reused a song directly from MM2.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 27, 2013, 07:59:39 PM
Dude, give it up.  I'm not going to agree with you. 
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 08:00:03 PM
Simple yes or no question.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 27, 2013, 08:01:38 PM
Your question proves you don't even understand the point.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 08:03:12 PM
Oh?  How is my question different than asking about refighting the MM2 bosses?
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 27, 2013, 08:06:58 PM
Oh?  How is my question different than asking about refighting the MM2 bosses?

Because music is not the same as boss fights, boss hit-boxes, or even boss weaknesses. While the MM2 boss powers are reused in the Doc Robots, the conditions in having to fight them are completely altered.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Sakura Leic on August 27, 2013, 08:10:04 PM
And you can't Metal Blade almost all of them like last time.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 27, 2013, 08:13:56 PM
Because music is not the same as boss fights, boss hit-boxes, or even boss weaknesses. While the MM2 boss powers are reused in the Doc Robots, the conditions in having to fight them are completely altered.
THANK YOU!  

The topic's about why fans like MM3.  And there's fewer better in answering that question than me.  But as for this argument ...  ::)  

It's liked because it's liked.  That's enough.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 08:22:50 PM
Boss patterns are identical.  Room layouts are identical aside from Flash Man's refight.  Hitbox differences are negligible and don't actually affect strategy.  Altered weakness it is, I guess, but that doesn't really change how the fight plays out all that much.  Still seems like a copy-and-paste job, and what's changed is not what's being pasted, but what it's being pasted into.  That doesn't make it "new content" to me, it makes it "old content" in a "new game".

It's liked because it's liked.  That's enough.

Oh that's such a boring answer.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Sakura Leic on August 27, 2013, 08:24:35 PM
That's pretty much the answer to all opinion questions though.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 27, 2013, 08:31:05 PM
I really hope you weren't expecting to change anyone's mind about the game. 

Especially not mine.  I mean ... obviously. 
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Sakura Leic on August 27, 2013, 08:32:51 PM
I sure as heck wouldn't change my mind because we all have different opinions, like me thinking that X6 has the best story in the X series.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 27, 2013, 08:37:44 PM
I sure as heck wouldn't change my mind because we all have different opinions, like me thinking that X6 has the best story in the X series.

BLASPHEMY!!!
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Zan on August 27, 2013, 08:53:52 PM
X6 IS one of the best stories in the X-series. Just also the worst translated one.

And I'm going to take a stance somewhere in the middle here and say: the Doc Robots were a nice idea, but their execution left something to be desired. I prefer my stages not so heavily reliant on exhaustible power up items. Likewise, I prefer to properly dodge the bosses themselves.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 08:55:08 PM
Not as interested in changing minds as I am in encouraging critical thinking.  "I like it cause I like it" doesn't really say anything, whereas actually thinking about aspects of design brings out more interesting discussion.

But ew X6 ew.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 27, 2013, 09:04:13 PM
Boss patterns are identical.  Room layouts are identical aside from Flash Man's refight.  Hitbox differences are negligible and don't actually affect strategy.  Altered weakness it is, I guess, but that doesn't really change how the fight plays out all that much.  Still seems like a copy-and-paste job, and what's changed is not what's being pasted, but what it's being pasted into.  That doesn't make it "new content" to me, it makes it "old content" in a "new game".

Patterns and room layout, yes. Hit-boxes and different weaknesses, plus other tools at your disposal (slide, weapons, Rush) make the fight different. A true "copy and paste" job would be if absolutely nothing changed. Slightly altered new-ness is still new whether you think it is or not.

Also, your question was how asking about the music reuse in MM9 was different than asking about the boss reuse in MM3. The fact that it had to be explained to you in the first place is kinda funny.

For fun, allow me to explain why I like MM3, despite my favorite character in the series being Blues. It's because MegaMan 3 continued the process of trying to improve upon the previous games.
-MM1 had only six RMs and the Magnet Beam.
-MM2 improved upon that by giving us 8 RMs and the Items, plus the secret "final" boss thingy.
-MM3 improved upon that by changing the Items into Rush, giving us the slide, Blues, and offering more to do besides just the Wily Castle. It also got rid of some of the immense "broken-ness" of the MM2 weaponry while also giving a slight homage to the previous game which, quite frankly, really is what gave the series its foothold in the video gaming world.
-MM4 improved upon that by giving us a whole new castle, altering Rush Jet so it's not so broken, adding in Fliptop and 2 other items, and last but not least, giving us the Mega Buster and an insanely better menu screen that the previous games.

Now here's where you can argue it goes slightly off track.

-MM5 gave us the improved Mega Buster, but it was so improved that there's no reason to use any of the other weapons in the game. Like...ever. Also, Beat was awesome.
-MM6 gave us the Rush Adapters, which were awesome, but the weapons were pretty bland and useless and again, really served little purpose because of the Mega Buster. The diverging pathways were cool though.

That's just the main classic NES games. The point I'm getting at is that MM3 really expanded on the already awesome MM2 formula and started to flesh out the series more than any other game. It's very similar to Link to the Past, in that regard. Did MM4 improve upon it? Yes. Yes it did. BECAUSE IT SHOULD HAVE! The goal always should be to improve upon the previous game. It's why Mega Man X was created in the first place, to improve upon the classic series which was starting to run out of ideas. Ultimately, the argument can be easily made that because of MM3, we have a lot of the MM games that we know and love today. MM3 is far from perfect, but the ideas presented in it helped to grow the franchise even further than it already did.

That is why I like it. It's not my favorite though. MM2 will always be my favorite because it was my first MM game. A lot of times, that's how it works.

Not as interested in changing minds as I am in encouraging critical thinking.  "I like it cause I like it" doesn't really say anything, whereas actually thinking about aspects of design brings out more interesting discussion.

Critical thinking? How does "going back and forth about the same argument" and "how is my question about reusing music any different than reusing bosses?" qualify as critical thinking?
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 27, 2013, 09:10:23 PM
It's interesting how the "encouraging critical thinking" would likely end once I agreed MM3 was an inferior game.  I guess that's somehow different than trying to change my mind.  Because, that'd obviously be incredibly futile.  And this is clearly not a futile discussion with the end goal of changing someone's mind.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 27, 2013, 09:22:09 PM
Critical thinking? How does "going back and forth about the same argument" and "how is my question about reusing music any different than reusing bosses?" qualify as critical thinking?

As opposed to "I like it cause I like it"?
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Sakura Leic on August 27, 2013, 09:25:31 PM
Because ultimately whether you like the music or bosses it really simply boils down to "I like it because I like it"
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 27, 2013, 09:32:25 PM
Well, after it became clear that you won't even agree that 3 can be liked or is important for introducing Rush and not understanding how introducing old bosses counted as a new idea or how it can be used as a new element it became clear this was not an exchange of ideas, but a circular argument.  And even if we were legitimately exchanging ideas once it became circular it was time to end it.  At least, for my own part.

I made my point.  And it ultimately boils down to "I like it because I like it."  

Oh, and it's fun too.   8B
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 27, 2013, 10:34:14 PM
As opposed to "I like it cause I like it"?

That's not critical thinking either. It's personal preference. The point is that neither is.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: DiveMissle on August 28, 2013, 01:30:00 AM
The whole point of this thread was for fans of Mega Man 3 to explain why they like it.If I was trying to change people's opinions this thread would called MEGA MAN 3 SUCKS!!I just want to know why so many people like it :\
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Sakura Leic on August 28, 2013, 01:35:03 AM
3 words, SPARK MAN'S THEME!

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=OZ2JxpBeeIc[/youtube]
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 28, 2013, 01:50:19 AM
The whole point of this thread was for fans of Mega Man 3 to explain why they like it.If I was trying to change people's opinions this thread would called MEGA MAN 3 SUCKS!!I just want to know why so many people like it :\
You weren't.  But it was clear MacDaddy was.  I'm not really interested in arguing about it.  Talking about why I like it, sure!  Going into a circular argument mostly about Doc Robot?  Not so much, no.

Well, to sum up why I liked it:

1) It's fun.
2) Nostalgia.
3) High jump / no death from pit cheats, broken Rush (makes it more fun)
4) The music's great
5) It introduces a lot of important elements (Rush, the slide, Protoman, "Wily didn't do it!",  returning robot masters, revisited stages are a precursor to the 1st castle stages found in later games, an actual STORY in a MM game (the Protoman plotline would go on until MM5 as simple as it is), robots with a second attack pattern after their life is low)
6) Doc Robot.  Controversial, but I'm on the "liking him" side of the coin.

You know what, though?  Those first two points are probably why the majority of fans like it.  
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: DiveMissle on August 28, 2013, 01:53:07 AM
Thanks for the explanation Gauntlet it's very useful and a great explanation owob
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Hiryu on August 28, 2013, 02:01:42 AM
I really wish you would stop shitting on my favorite Megaman game. It's hurting me. You suck and your Megaman 4 sucks even harder. Megaman 3 is better in every single way. It clearly reuses things and that's great because it's completely new for the first time. I mean, look how many times the Devil boss has been reused. People like things to be recycled from the older games, right?

Earlier you posted a review of Megaman 3 vs Megaman 4's weapons, yet you complained that 6 out of 8 weapons were projectiles. Gee, projectiles coming from a cannon, damn you Capcom for being so lazy and uninspired! I mean, it was clearly recycled from the last two games, so it sucks, it's old and moldy.

Megaman 3's Rush Jet is the best Rush Jet ever. Thanks Megaman 4 for bringing something new to the table and nerfing Rush Jet.

You clearly don't know how much good recycling is. If we didn't recycle, think about how many plastic bottles we would have in landfills! If we didn't recycling things, our planet would be a lot worse off!

Oh that's such a boring answer.

Oh I'm sorry, were you expecting something a little more flashy?

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6886286



Also,

Okay, I'm just gonna chime in here since trying to explain why someone likes something is both pointless and silly, but how is MM4's final Wily Capsule not laughably-bad? He is so easily beaten with the uber-powerful glitched Pharaoh Shot that it's a goddamn joke.Even Arino beat him on GCCX for christ sake.

I lol'd
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: DiveMissle on August 28, 2013, 02:06:29 AM
Wow,the poll is even 8D
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: VixyNyan on August 29, 2013, 02:51:54 AM
2 reasons (among others)

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1UkE9h2zJg
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1UkE9h2zJg[/youtube]

2. Had to put these two together for the bigger picture.
http://themechanicalmaniacs.com/articles/mm3mysteries.php
http://tcrf.net/Mega_Man_3
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Rin on August 29, 2013, 04:23:56 AM
The whole point of this thread was for fans of Mega Man 3 to explain why they like it.If I was trying to change people's opinions this thread would called MEGA MAN 3 SUCKS!!I just want to know why so many people like it :\
We know.
Don't worry.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 29, 2013, 06:14:56 AM
hah hah hah, Megaman Mysteries.  I remember when you were useful and unique.  Good times, good times.   ~w~

Yeah, it has a lot of neat behind-the-scenes stuff that's fun to look into and speculate about.  Surprisingly, there's not a whole lot of Megaman games that have as many secrets.  You'd think there'd be more, but Capcom does a pretty good job cleaning up after itself. 
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: DiveMissle on August 29, 2013, 06:29:40 AM
I'm glad the point of this thread is finally in action
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Da Dood on August 29, 2013, 06:49:04 AM
MM3 was the game of my childhood. I was already obsessed with MM2, then 3 came out and introduced elements that no other game had before. It was really cool to see Rush, slide and Proto for the first time. They added so much personality to the series, not to mention their influence on the gameplay.

I still think MM3 has the most unique presentation out of all classic games. Even the colors are weird, kinda cold, which is interesting because the enemies look super cartoony. I still remember my first reaction seeing the giant spring enemy... compared to its MM2 "dad", I thought the update looked much more expressive and cooler. New stylish additions, like menus splitting into 3 parts, Mega Man's eyes following RMs in stage select, and Mega Man absorbing the Robot Master's power, were quite creative too.

My two cents on Doc Robots: I understand the irony of recycled content being praised as something new, but they do feel different IMO. It was a big deal seeing the alternate levels appear on the stage select instead of Dr. Wily, then Flash Man floating down and lending his power to a bulky skull robot. They were building up suspense and nostalgia at the same time. Even if the execution wasn't perfect, it was definitely genuine. If they really wanted to be lazy about it, they could have just ignored the Doc Robots completely. They had 6 fortress stages (same as MM2), and as we all know, those could have used a little extra work. I respect them trying to shake things up, even with Capcom pushing for an early release.

I learned to appreciate the weapon selection by watching and doing speed runs. Speed runs are incredibly demanding on Mega Man arsenals, and the best (http://www.twitch.tv/checkers3469/c/2704054) MM3 runs use weapons frequently. I think it's exciting because some of the weapons are very high risk/reward. The trick to using them well is often near pixel perfect (like squeezing a Gemini Laser just between the floor and a porcupine's projectile), and landing them makes a difference. There's nothing quite as satisfying as speeding through the last part of Doc Shadow with carefully timed Magnet Missiles. To me, that kind of thing hits the sweet spot between skill and concentration.  I have the SDA and SRL communities to thank for all those creative weapon strats.

Being the last NES iteration without an overpowered charge shot, MM3 is also a great game to do both 'no buster' runs AND 'buster only' too. 4-6's Mega Buster completely trivializes the weakness order, which is a pity.

It's pretty obvious that MM3 has flaws, but there's a lot of nitpicking too. There are more serious issues that people rarely mention, like Mega Man not firing for a couple of frames when turning/landing sometimes. I would also rebalance the [parasitic bomb] out of that arsenal if I had the opportunity anyway.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: VixyNyan on August 29, 2013, 03:28:50 PM
hah hah hah, Megaman Mysteries.  I remember when you were useful and unique.  Good times, good times.   ~w~

I dunno, I still find it useful, visiting the page first before looking elsewhere.

Times does change, our old webpages falls down into the shadows, still there but nothing much going on (little attention by the overall internet public), while the next generations are taking over the spotlight. XD
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Soultrigger on August 30, 2013, 06:38:04 AM
Yeah... I'm not going to say 9 had a bad weapon line-up per se but I find it bad level design to force usage of said weapons to progress, never once did I find use for Tornado Blow or Concrete Shot outside of using them to dull out some obstacle...

Mega Man 9 easily has the best weapons of the series, mostly because they were far superior than the Mega Buster in practically every situation i.e. they were overpowered. The stage design aside from Wily Stage 1 never forced you to use any, which even then I don't see why this would qualify as a bad thing. That said, Mega Man 9 actually did have brilliant stage design and enemy placement which encouraged you to use your special weapons over your buster, and if you didn't notice this, I'd encourage you to replay Mega Man 9. Mr. Perfect and good Time Attack scores emphasize this point well.

The whole point of this thread was for fans of Mega Man 3 to explain why they like it.If I was trying to change people's opinions this thread would called MEGA MAN 3 SUCKS!!I just want to know why so many people like it :\

I agree, I am actually curious as to why many players would rate Mega Man 3 as one of the highest in the series. If it's such an obvious choice, I think fans of 3 should be able to articulate these reasons easily if that was the case.

Personally though, I think the praise 3 gets is unwarranted. The OST is one of the best, but aside from that, I fail to see what 3 does over, say, 4 5 and 6 besides being more difficult because of the lack of charge shot. Perhaps I just lack the nostalgia goggles?

On the discussion of special weapons, I agree that I thought 3 had the (if not one of the) worst selection of special weapons. Most were less useful than your buster, and even the ones that were useful ran out of Weapon Energy way too quickly.

X6 IS one of the best stories in the X-series. Just also the worst translated one.

Well the X series has pretty bad stories to begin with (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExcusePlot) (starting with X2), so that's not really saying much even it that was true. "Oh hey, it's not as [parasitic bomb]-ty"
X1, being the sole exception, is leaps and bounds above X6 though. Sigma's motivation of Reploid supremacy, X actually going against the odds, the interconnected elements with collecting power ups to match Zero and beat Vile. While it may have been simple, the themes really do resonate with players unlike the rest of the series. Honestly, after X1, the plots had no intrinsic value other than giving you a reason to blast and slice up baddies.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Police Girl on August 30, 2013, 07:50:01 AM
Mega Man 9 easily has the best weapons of the series, mostly because they were far superior than the Mega Buster in practically every situation i.e. they were overpowered. The stage design aside from Wily Stage 1 never forced you to use any, which even then I don't see why this would qualify as a bad thing. That said, Mega Man 9 actually did have brilliant stage design and enemy placement which encouraged you to use your special weapons over your buster, and if you didn't notice this, I'd encourage you to replay Mega Man 9. Mr. Perfect and good Time Attack scores emphasize this point well.

The weapons are "The Best" huh?

Laser Trident= Basically a stronger megabuster, okay this one is good.
Black Hole Bomb= Slow moving projectile that sucks things in, it can be useful but its more conditional.
Magma Cannon=Atomic Fire that shoots in three directions, wow totally original 10/10 capcom, I never found any use for it.
Concrete Shot= Conditional, forced usage for stupid lava lasers in Wily 1 and stupid lasers in Wily 4, runs out of ammo too quickly to be of much use.
Hornet Chaser= Good for getting items and killing Mr. Angry Rock but not much else.
Tornado Blow= Forced Usage in Wily 1, can damage fire dragon miniboss but its not that great.
Diamond Barrier/Shield/whatever= Its a stupid shield. Good for telly grinding but [tornado fang] barriers.
Plug Ball = Okay it hits enemies on the ground guess what its not good for much else.

The stage design should not under any circumstance force you to use special weapons, you should always be able to rely on your buster since that is the most handy weapon in the game. That's not fair to people who either use said weapons to kill enemies then you're [tornado fang]'d because you don't have enough to move on. It wasn't a good idea in Megaman 1 with the Magnet Beam (Though the Weapon energy respawned IIRC, so it wasn't too big of a loss but if you didn't pick it up before hand you would be screwed.), it wasn't a good idea in Megaman 2 with the Boobeam traps (Not level design but its still a [parasitic bomb] boss.)

You say just Wily Stage 1, but Wily Stage 2 had those bullshit jumps underwater where you either needed to be pixel-[tornado fang]ing-perfect, use concrete shot or Rush Jet (If you could get rush to you without him teleporting away because of how [tornado fang]ing narrow those spaces were), or taste death by spikes.

And again, Wily 4 and the lasers you have to block with concrete shot. Unless you just suggest I run through them and take damage.

I'll say it again, Megaman 9 is terrible, the level design is weak, the game is basically photographic proof of capcom giving head to megaman 2 because its hailed as the best for some unexplainable [tornado fang]ing reason. Its totally cool that some people enjoy it but I don't get how people would want more games like it because it honestly isn't very fun.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Satoryu on August 30, 2013, 08:16:09 AM
You're underestimating some of these weapons. Concrete Shot can be used as a small platform, it's quicker than Rush Coil to activate, and can even stick to walls to give you boosts Rush can't. Tornado Blow is not required in Wily 1, you can cross the whole thing with just Rush Jet. What T Blow does do is increase your jump height. Combine that with Rush Coil and you can jump from the bottom of the screen to the top. You seem to have a bias against shields, but you just acknowledge that Jewel Satellite is the most durable shield. And Plug Ball does crawl across walls and ceilings too, but I concede that that weapon is the least useful of the bunch.

Back to Mega Man 3, I see both sides arguments. It has a lot of flaws, but at the same time it does do some things right, introduced staples of the series, and is just fun to play. Not the most fun, but it's still enjoyable like all the other games. It's personally in the middle for me.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 30, 2013, 10:06:07 AM
Jewel Satellite answered my long-lost question of why the Shield Weapons never actually blocked shots. BECAUSE IT WAS INSANELY BROKEN! XD
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 30, 2013, 02:49:38 PM
Laser Trident= Basically a stronger megabuster, okay this one is good.
Black Hole Bomb= Slow moving projectile that sucks things in, it can be useful but its more conditional.
Magma Cannon=Atomic Fire that shoots in three directions, wow totally original 10/10 capcom, I never found any use for it.
Concrete Shot= Conditional, forced usage for stupid lava lasers in Wily 1 and stupid lasers in Wily 4, runs out of ammo too quickly to be of much use.
Hornet Chaser= Good for getting items and killing Mr. Angry Rock but not much else.
Tornado Blow= Forced Usage in Wily 1, can damage fire dragon miniboss but its not that great.
Diamond Barrier/Shield/whatever= Its a stupid shield. Good for telly grinding but [tornado fang] barriers.
Plug Ball = Okay it hits enemies on the ground guess what its not good for much else.

Wow are you doing this wrong.  Here, let me help:

Laser Trident - more powerful version of the Mega Buster with a larger hit radius and barrier-piercing ability
Black Hole Bomb - area-of-effect, can destroy any non-miniboss enemy in one use
Magma Cannon - attacks diagonally, can be charged for extra damage, the three shots can overlap to do insane amount of damage in one attack
Concrete Shot - freezes enemies, has platforming purposes
Hornet Chaser - homing attack, can pick up items
Tornado Blow - screen clearing, platforming purposes
Jewel Satellite - incredibly powerful shield, breaks 90% of the rooms in the game, is one of the series' absolutely most useful weapons
Plug Ball - super fast, can travel to hard-to-reach places to reach hard-to-reach enemies

Maybe you absolutely suck with weapons, but that doesn't make them sucky.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Police Girl on August 30, 2013, 03:52:46 PM
Wow are you doing this wrong.  Here, let me help:

How about no?

You have your opinions on weapons, I have mine. Don't go trying to change mine.

I don't like shields, I don't like weapons that expend too much ammo per shot. That doesn't make me "sucky" with weapons if I choose not to use them all the [tornado fang]ing time. I try to save them for when they're most useful to me, which is boss fights.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on August 30, 2013, 04:31:09 PM
3 being better than other games .... well, I'd hope later games got most things right because it's been over 20 years since 3 came out.  It'd be pretty pathetic if MM peaked in 1990.  It's mainly about preference and fun.  Preference being dictated by nostalgia and fun being VERY subjective. 
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Sub Tank on August 30, 2013, 04:41:05 PM
I've always loved MM3.  I don't know if it's the stages or the extra bosses or the Proto man whistle, but it was one of the best IMO.  The final boss was a pushover, but easily cooler than alien Wily, who was also a pushover.  Top spin was worthless but hilarious.   The rush upgrades were fun.  There's a lot of other stuff.  It was also the first MM game I owned, so there's that too.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: MacDaddyMike on August 30, 2013, 08:40:42 PM
How about no?

You have your opinions on weapons, I have mine. Don't go trying to change mine.

Don't go trying to change Soultrigger's, then.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Police Girl on August 30, 2013, 08:45:05 PM
Don't go trying to change Soultrigger's, then.

Wow, I wasn't.

I was replying to his reply.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Flame on August 30, 2013, 08:56:04 PM
All this arguing over a Mega Man game...

And it's not like anyone mentioned legends either. Then I'd understand. Everyone loses their minds when someone mentions Legends.

Jewel Satellite was broken as [tornado fang]. So it gets a pass.

T. Blow was meh aside from screen clearing or jumping high here or there. Fun, but situational to the extreme.

B.Hole was neat, but slow.

Trident was great.

C. Shot was kinda meh. It took out smaller enemies, and acted as a temporary platform, but i never found THAT much more use out of it than say, Rush. I felt it was really a bit more forced for the lava laser nonsense. On that note: how the [tornado fang] does concrete solidify that.

Hornets.. item hunting exclusively.

the magma shot was useless, I never found myself in a situation where i absolutely NEEDED to shoot diagonally, and usually, the hornets managed that just fine since they home in.

what else...

The plug ball was rather worthless IMO. Had few uses.

here's how I feel about 9 and 10.

9 feels more like a Mega Man game. (despite the cheap obstacles) but 10 is by far more original and just a better GAME in general.

3 is better than both of them though

Someone mentioned Sparkman...

Well how about Wily 3/4?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDkewKBEUxk[/youtube]
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Soultrigger on August 31, 2013, 04:23:43 AM
I don't like shields, I don't like weapons that expend too much ammo per shot. That doesn't make me "sucky" with weapons if I choose not to use them all the [tornado fang]ing time. I try to save them for when they're most useful to me, which is boss fights.

Actually...it kinda does. You don't use them outside of bosses because you think they suck, which is fine because hey, that's your opinion.
But that doesn't justify your argument that the weapons actually do suck, it could very well be that you failed to realize their utility and worked much harder (i.e. limiting yourself to the Mega Buster) than acquiring the same results with much less effort. In which case, yes, you aren't very good with the weapons because you fail to see their utility.

Now what I find funny is that you complain Wily 4 forces you to use Concrete Shot (I forgot about Wily 4), but then turn around and say Concrete Shot sucks. I fail to see how you would run out of ammo while claiming you hardly ever used the special weapons.

T. Blow was meh aside from screen clearing or jumping high here or there. Fun, but situational to the extreme.

B.Hole was neat, but slow. Black Hole Bomb is controllable ala Magnet Mine, and destroyed most enemies and projectiles, making it very versatile for killing enemies without getting in their line of fire. You could kill the Flame Dragon miniboss really fast with it, you can protect yourself from Wily Capsule with it.

Trident was great.

C. Shot was kinda meh. It took out smaller enemies, and acted as a temporary platform, but i never found THAT much more use out of it than say, Rush. I felt it was really a bit more forced for the lava laser nonsense. On that note: how the [tornado fang] does concrete solidify that. Concrete shot was an inexpensive alternative to Tornado Blow and much quicker than Rush Coil, making it incredibly useful for Time Attacking. It also instant killed smaller enemies, but its main utility is platforming. Oh noez, diversity.

Hornets.. item hunting exclusively. Actually, Hornet was also good for killing enemies outside their line-of-sight, though this gets overshadowed by Black Hole Bomb and Plug Ball. Useful for the first phase of the Wily Stage 2 boss because, despite not being its weakness, also kills the homing missiles.

the magma shot was useless, I never found myself in a situation where i absolutely NEEDED to shoot diagonally, and usually, the hornets managed that just fine since they home in. Magma Shot at point blank overlaps damage, even against Magma Man himself. Mostly useful on bosses when you ran out of or are conserving ammo. Also good on the flower mini boss if you want to save T. Blow

what else...

The plug ball was rather worthless IMO. Had few uses. Outside line-of-sight, and occasionally the bubble lead. Spammable.

here's how I feel about 9 and 10.

9 feels more like a Mega Man game. (despite the cheap obstacles) but 10 is by far more original and just a better GAME in general. 9 has more consistently good music, so give and take IMO.

3 is better than both of them though eh, no. very subjective.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Police Girl on August 31, 2013, 05:30:42 AM
Now what I find funny is that you complain Wily 4 forces you to use Concrete Shot (I forgot about Wily 4), but then turn around and say Concrete Shot sucks. I fail to see how you would run out of ammo while claiming you hardly ever used the special weapons.

I run out because my shots miss the [tornado fang]ing lasers more often than not? They either stop right in front of the laser or fly past it, taking three or four shots to get it right because I can't judge the shot distance very well drains the ever loving [tornado fang] out of the weapon energy.

Sure, maybe I do suck with the weapons, some of them at least. But that's because that isn't my playstyle. I prefer using the Buster over everything else, which is hilarious considering I dislike the two games where the Buster dominates everything. Classic Megaman has always been a Buster game for me, Save a few specific weapons (Shadow Blades, Thunder Beam, Metal Blades, Pharaoh Shot, Needle Cannon, Slash Claw, Noise Crush, Thunder Claw, Triple Blade, probably something else I'm missing.) I don't find much use in the weapons otherwise, the buster does everything the other weapons can do efficiently enough that I don't stress too much about playing with the weapons too much.

Its the X games where I'm a bit better with weapons, at least the SNES ones.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: AquaTeamV3 on August 31, 2013, 07:35:50 PM
Sure, maybe I do suck with the weapons, some of them at least. But that's because that isn't my playstyle. I prefer using the Buster over everything else, which is hilarious considering I dislike the two games where the Buster dominates everything. Classic Megaman has always been a Buster game for me, Save a few specific weapons (Shadow Blades, Thunder Beam, Metal Blades, Pharaoh Shot, Needle Cannon, Slash Claw, Noise Crush, Thunder Claw, Triple Blade, probably something else I'm missing.) I don't find much use in the weapons otherwise, the buster does everything the other weapons can do efficiently enough that I don't stress too much about playing with the weapons too much.

See, this is why I think every Megaman game should let you use the buster and special weapon simultaneously, like MM8 and the X games from X4 onwards.  Gives you incentive to experiment because you don't have to drop your main weapon.

As far as arsenals go, I think MM3's is okay but a few of the weapons could stand to be buffed a bit.  I really think that Special Weapons should err more on the side of broken than under-powered.  Also, best arsenals in the Classic series are 1,2,8, and 9.
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: VixyNyan on September 05, 2013, 03:06:10 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4xCwWy3-e0[/youtube]

Another good reason why the game (the music) is so beautiful. This is for all of us Blues fans~
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: Protoman Blues on September 05, 2013, 07:05:25 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4xCwWy3-e0[/youtube]

Another good reason why the game (the music) is so beautiful. This is for all of us Blues fans~

So beautiful!
Title: Re: Why does everyone like Mega Man 3 so much?
Post by: DiveMissle on September 10, 2013, 05:57:12 AM
It was either Mega Man 1,2,or 3 that I played first. Yet number 4 is my favorite.