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Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => Original => Topic started by: Flame on February 19, 2012, 06:10:26 PM

Title: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Flame on February 19, 2012, 06:10:26 PM
We never discovered it did we? That Secret S-Kill kept talking about, and how "nobody would find it"?

Everyone just sort of forgot about it.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Hiryu on February 19, 2012, 06:57:36 PM
Looking through this thread tells me no: http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_capcom/go/thread/view/7371/5051879/Mega_Man_9_Mystery

It's certainly not obvious, even Hackers haven't found it yet. Don't worry, Seth has confirmed that it's nothing we've already discovered yet.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Karasai♪ on February 19, 2012, 07:12:15 PM
Why cant he just tell us the damn secret already

also bass
(http://fast1.onesite.com/capcom-unity.com/user/perfectedidiot2/a21a521239c3e8103f365825d3a3b3e9.png?v=68820)
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Hiryu on February 20, 2012, 06:14:14 PM
Maybe because he doesn't want to spoil the fun? Not to mention he was specifically told by the higher ups not to talk about it.

What gaming company ever told people about it's secrets before?
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Zechs on February 21, 2012, 11:12:36 AM
It is hard to think that by this time and everyone's efforts into this that it "hasn't" been found... Must be something simple enough that is easy to take it for granted; something that blends with everything else.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: The Great Gonzo on February 21, 2012, 11:56:56 AM
Maybe the "secret" is that S-Kill sent the fandom on a wild goose chase in order to keep interest in the game up.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Zechs on February 21, 2012, 01:13:09 PM
You'd think that would work, till MM10 came and went.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Zan on February 21, 2012, 01:43:00 PM
Why cant he just tell us the damn secret already

also bass
(http://fast1.onesite.com/capcom-unity.com/user/perfectedidiot2/a21a521239c3e8103f365825d3a3b3e9.png?v=68820)

The fan version has way too many colors.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: zuschzero on February 21, 2012, 08:23:19 PM
Megaman 9 secret:
On the XBOX 360 version, select how to play, then find endless attack's description. The sentence "A stage that doesn't have an end" is written twice in a row.

Or

If you deal the last hit with Hornet Chaser to the big jumper enemy, it just disappears instead of exploding.

Megaman 10 secret:
On the XBOX 360 version, select how to play, then go to the 10th page. Look at the weapon select screen. Solar Blaze is typed as S. Braze.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Align on February 21, 2012, 10:38:54 PM
I don't think bugs count as secrets.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Hiryu on February 21, 2012, 11:01:03 PM
Typos are not secrets. Plus, it's already been validated that those aren't the secrets.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Karasai♪ on February 21, 2012, 11:39:52 PM
JEWEL MAN AND TOP MAN ARE BROTHERS
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: KoiDrake on February 21, 2012, 11:48:15 PM
also bass
(http://fast1.onesite.com/capcom-unity.com/user/perfectedidiot2/a21a521239c3e8103f365825d3a3b3e9.png?v=68820)
What's with him?
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Blackhook on February 22, 2012, 12:34:10 AM
Dr Light was evil all along
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Karasai♪ on February 22, 2012, 01:43:00 AM
What's with him?

IT WAS A SIGN

The bass sprite in MM9's ending was hinting him being playable in MM10 and was also used for his sprites (minus the chest piece)
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Flame on February 22, 2012, 02:12:56 AM
I thought that Bass being playable was an obvious eventuality. Especially after teasing us with a Bass sprite.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Blackhook on February 22, 2012, 10:56:43 PM
A realy lazy Bass sprite...
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on February 23, 2012, 12:23:06 AM
The fan version has way too many colors.

No one cares how many colors it has. It looks way better than the official one.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: KoiDrake on February 23, 2012, 12:38:53 AM
No one cares how many colors it has. It looks way better than the official one.
For a game that was supposed to emulate the NES style it IS important. And I like the MM10 one more tbh.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on February 23, 2012, 03:12:47 AM
IMHO, it is not important. These games are on systems that can handle more than the NES could. Using one more color than the NES originally could to please my eye a little more isn't going to hurt a thing. It's ONE color. I'm not asking to mix HD sprites with 8-bit here, I'm just saying you can stay true to a style without strictly adhering to NES limitations. It's not a big deal if they do things with the 8-bit style that cannot be done on the NES, as long as the game play doesn't suffer for it. i don't think we need extra running or jumping frames for Mega Man, but making Bass look like more than a Mega Man edit, is not going to break the immersion.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Flame on February 23, 2012, 04:15:22 AM
Im pretty sure Mega Man 9 and 10 already do things that they couldnt on the NES dont they?
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: KoiDrake on February 23, 2012, 04:19:24 AM
IMHO, it is not important. These games are on systems that can handle more than the NES could. Using one more color than the NES originally could to please my eye a little more isn't going to hurt a thing. It's ONE color. I'm not asking to mix HD sprites with 8-bit here, I'm just saying you can stay true to a style without strictly adhering to NES limitations. It's not a big deal if they do things with the 8-bit style that cannot be done on the NES, as long as the game play doesn't suffer for it. i don't think we need extra running or jumping frames for Mega Man, but making Bass look like more than a Mega Man edit, is not going to break the immersion.
As you said, it's your opinion, so there isn't much point in discussing this. Plus, this subject has been discussed so many times already, I don't really care to bring it back again.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on February 23, 2012, 04:18:06 PM
Im pretty sure Mega Man 9 and 10 already do things that they couldnt on the NES dont they?

Yes, they do. Which is why other parts seems very lazy in comparison.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: OBJECTION MAN on February 24, 2012, 04:36:42 AM
IMHO, it is not important. These games are on systems that can handle more than the NES could. Using one more color than the NES originally could to please my eye a little more isn't going to hurt a thing. It's ONE color. I'm not asking to mix HD sprites with 8-bit here, I'm just saying you can stay true to a style without strictly adhering to NES limitations. It's not a big deal if they do things with the 8-bit style that cannot be done on the NES, as long as the game play doesn't suffer for it. i don't think we need extra running or jumping frames for Mega Man, but making Bass look like more than a Mega Man edit, is not going to break the immersion.

Maintaining the NES appearance is important if you're touting the NES style. That is what they were doing. You have to be delivering a believable appearance. That 'fan' Bass sprite is far beyond believable. it doesn't even look close. And no, it's not just ONE color over, its a total of 8 distinguishable colors. That's taking ALL 4 of the available sprite palettes under the NES Megaman standard palette conventions. 6 color entries way over the limit. It looks false on all levels, and is a technical blunder.

You may be use to doing subpar work, but true professionals know the value of authenticity and consistency.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on February 24, 2012, 07:23:46 AM
Maintaining the NES appearance is important if you're touting the NES style. That is what they were doing. You have to be delivering a believable appearance.
If it was so important then why break certain limits but respect others? If you're going to say that they had to deliver a believable appearance, then why do they allow some sprites to display 5 colors and why are there more than 16 colors on screen at once in some places?

That 'fan' Bass sprite is far beyond believable. it doesn't even look close. And no, it's not just ONE color over, its a total of 8 distinguishable colors. That's taking ALL 4 of the available sprite palettes under the NES Megaman standard palette conventions. 6 color entries way over the limit. It looks false on all levels, and is a technical blunder.

Then Mega man 9 and 10 are "technical blunders". Or maybe you just cannot accept that the developers did a lazy job on Bass' sprite, by editing Mega Man to look like Bass.

You may be use to doing subpar work, but true professionals know the value of authenticity and consistency.

Ah, personal attacks, the last leg of any failing argument.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Flame on February 24, 2012, 07:47:44 AM
Again, don't 9 and 10 already break NES limits?  I recall something about the game already using a few more colors or more color combinations or something, than it should have been able to on the NES.
If you are already going to break some of the limitations, then at least use that to make the sprite look better.

And besides, color limitations aside, 10's Bass sprite is still pretty bad.

You can still take the fan sprite, fit it to the colors used in Bass' MM 10 sprite, and the result is still better.

(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1927/31217457.png)

Left: Fan sprite. Right: Official sprite. Middle: Altered using the official one's colors and a few of the elements it surpasses the fan one on.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on February 24, 2012, 07:51:25 AM
While I am here, how about that secret? Skill said there was a secret in MM10 also. I hope someone finds them soon.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Zan on February 24, 2012, 09:08:48 AM
Quote
No one cares how many colors it has

I care. Proper color limit application makes the core of the NES aesthetics.

Quote
If it was so important then why break certain limits but respect others? If you're going to say that they had to deliver a believable appearance, then why do they allow some sprites to display 5 colors and why are there more than 16 colors on screen at once in some places?

Both games are quite faithful in terms of NES limits, if you ask me. They didn't seem to really care when it came to conglomerations like the fortress bosses, which would appear to do the impossible, but there's no easy way to tell whether a smart trick couldn't make it possible anyway.

You seem somewhat confused at how the NES handles colors, though. There's no hard limit of "5 colors per sprite" or "16 colors on screen. It is instead eight four-color palettes, four for sprites, four for background use. While the player character is limited to two palettes (body and face). There's one extra palette available for bosses and enemies through the re-use of Rock's face palette alongside their own two. A sprite like SplashWoman, for example, may look like it has way too many colors, but actually makes incredibly smart use of what the NES could do. You just need to make sure everything on screen re-uses the same colors. As proof of Inti doing so, recall that Concrete and Plug stages were once ported over into a romhack of Rockman4, stage enemies and all.

Quote
You can still take the fan sprite, fit it to the colors used in Bass' MM 10 sprite, and the result is still better.

That "official" sprite is also incorrectly colored:

http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/files/Classic/Bass/BF8/bass10sheet.png

The gem can't be purple under NES palette restrictions. It has to reuse the face or fin colors.

That said, if you'd recolor yours to do just that it would definitely be improved in the chest armor department. But then, you gotta be careful with flickering. All that extra white leads to more sprites on the same scanline.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: zuschzero on February 24, 2012, 01:55:53 PM
Some notes about MM9 & 10 + NES limitations:

- The flame dragoon miniboss seems a bit impossible, way too many sprites at once.
- The first fortress boss in MM9. There are background, so the spike balls and the faces must be sprites. Way too much.
- The rocket-powered soccerballs would be tricky for the NES to handle, without too much lag. One at a screen would be okay, but 4-5 at once????
- The yellow platforms at Crap Puncher must be sprites, because it would be impossible with background scrolling.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Zan on February 24, 2012, 02:50:08 PM
It's really hard to estimate what does and does not work without actually running it on NES. I'm guessing though that the first fortress boss from 9 is actually doable by virtue of each sprite being on a different scanline. However, the slowdown might be comparable to the wall-mounted turrets from 2.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: zuschzero on February 24, 2012, 03:50:06 PM
However, the slowdown might be comparable to the wall-mounted turrets from 2.

That's easily doable, the entire scene is a background, and when two parts start to assembling, those two parts becomes sprites. The effect is similar to how all the devils works.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on February 24, 2012, 06:04:02 PM
I care. Proper color limit application makes the core of the NES aesthetics.

Both games are quite faithful in terms of NES limits, if you ask me. They didn't seem to really care when it came to conglomerations like the fortress bosses, which would appear to do the impossible, but there's no easy way to tell whether a smart trick couldn't make it possible anyway.

You seem somewhat confused at how the NES handles colors, though. There's no hard limit of "5 colors per sprite" or "16 colors on screen. It is instead eight four-color palettes, four for sprites, four for background use. While the player character is limited to two palettes (body and face). There's one extra palette available for bosses and enemies through the re-use of Rock's face palette alongside their own two. A sprite like SplashWoman, for example, may look like it has way too many colors, but actually makes incredibly smart use of what the NES could do. You just need to make sure everything on screen re-uses the same colors. As proof of Inti doing so, recall that Concrete and Plug stages were once ported over into a romhack of Rockman4, stage enemies and all.

That "official" sprite is also incorrectly colored:

http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/files/Classic/Bass/BF8/bass10sheet.png

The gem can't be purple under NES palette restrictions. It has to reuse the face or fin colors.

That said, if you'd recolor yours to do just that it would definitely be improved in the chest armor department. But then, you gotta be careful with flickering. All that extra white leads to more sprites on the same scanline.

You're in a minority of people that want to see lazy edits instead of original works. All made possible by gripping to the idea that if the NES couldn't do it, then the game shouldn't try. Which is absurd. You can still have an "8bit artstyle" without clinging to archaic hardware  limitations.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Align on February 24, 2012, 07:33:28 PM
I wouldn't say working under more restrictions would be more lazy...
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Flame on February 24, 2012, 07:51:38 PM
I dunno, Zan... Sounds more like excuses to support your argument IMO. "Oh it's hard to tell if the NES could do it or not..."

(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/8392/22611550.png)
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: KoiDrake on February 24, 2012, 08:17:57 PM
I still think the one used on MM10 is better, that chest plate doesn't look right when you see it in the original size, it makes the character look cluttered and weird. On these sprites the more details you try to add the worst it'll be.

As fo the whole 8-bit thing, this has been discussed already, if you want to keep going with it then take it to another thread.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Flame on February 24, 2012, 09:36:20 PM
That's because the character was not designed with an 8 bit system in mind. Bass was designed for the SNES, which could display him much better. Megaman and Protoman are simple designs with less armor plating for that reason. But that's just too bad, if you are going to put him in an NES game with pseudo-NES limitations, you still have to make the sprite resemble the character as properly it can, which 10's sprite doesnt.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on February 24, 2012, 11:18:13 PM
Is anyone keeping track of all of the secrets in MM9 and MM10? I know Skill has said we haven't found it yet, but it would still be nice to have a resource to look at to know if the thing you stumbled upon has been discovered yet. There are some pretty obscure things in those games.

And also, HOLY [parasitic bomb], Mega Man 9 has been out for 3 years.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Flame on February 25, 2012, 02:14:45 AM
You could always browse around Sprites Inc and see if they have any old topics on the matter.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: VixyNyan on February 25, 2012, 03:37:53 AM
Old RPM thread (http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=89.0)
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on February 25, 2012, 04:20:36 AM
Thanks for that. I also found an archive on Ask Capcom. Good god, do I really want to open this can of worms AGAIN?
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: KoiDrake on February 25, 2012, 04:33:45 AM
That's because the character was not designed with an 8 bit system in mind. Bass was designed for the SNES, which could display him much better. Megaman and Protoman are simple designs with less armor plating for that reason. But that's just too bad, if you are going to put him in an NES game with pseudo-NES limitations, you still have to make the sprite resemble the character as properly it can, which 10's sprite doesnt.
What are you talking about? Bass's sprite can still be recognized as himself, and that should be enough, you are just nitpicking about small details that don't matter on that sprite size and on the character overall. The whole point of these sprites is to add only the necessary details for the character to be recognizable. More details are pointless and generally look bad.

The designers even incorporated most of the details that show up on that fan sprite (chest plate, gems and whatever else there is) when they did that easter egg on MM9, and yet they decided to remove them when they did Bass again for MM10. There is a reason for that, it wasn't just a random decision, otherwise they could have easily taken their sprite, add the colors and go drink some coffee. And I'm not even touching to the whole color palette issue that you guys are discussing. The lines make Bass cluttered already, and they did a good job on fixing that for MM10.

Bass looking a lot like Megaman and stuff like that are other thing, dunno if they were lazy or they didn't wanted to risk making a scratch Bass without fans bitching about him not being on style, I really don't care much about it, he fits right on the game anyway.

Is anyone keeping track of all of the secrets in MM9 and MM10? I know Skill has said we haven't found it yet, but it would still be nice to have a resource to look at to know if the thing you stumbled upon has been discovered yet. There are some pretty obscure things in those games.

And also, HOLY [parasitic bomb], Mega Man 9 has been out for 3 years.
Not really, it would be a nice idea to list every little thing that has been posted on that Capcom Unity thread. There were a few things mentioned there that no one seemed to know (like some Duck Tales tiles used for Fakeman's stage, among other things)
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Mirby on February 25, 2012, 06:53:45 AM
What are you talking about? Bass's sprite can still be recognized as himself, and that should be enough, you are just nitpicking about small details that don't matter on that sprite size and on the character overall. The whole point of these sprites is to add only the necessary details for the character to be recognizable. More details are pointless and generally look bad.

The designers even incorporated most of the details that show up on that fan sprite (chest plate, gems and whatever else there is) when they did that easter egg on MM9, and yet they decided to remove them when they did Bass again for MM10. There is a reason for that, it wasn't just a random decision, otherwise they could have easily taken their sprite, add the colors and go drink some coffee. And I'm not even touching to the whole color palette issue that you guys are discussing. The lines make Bass cluttered already, and they did a good job on fixing that for MM10.

Bass looking a lot like Megaman and stuff like that are other thing, dunno if they were lazy or they didn't wanted to risk making a scratch Bass without fans bitching about him not being on style, I really don't care much about it, he fits right on the game anyway.
Not really, it would be a nice idea to list every little thing that has been posted on that Capcom Unity thread. There were a few things mentioned there that no one seemed to know (like some Duck Tales tiles used for Fakeman's stage, among other things)

You're talking to the guy who has strong opinions on the evolution of Zero's helmet. I don't think you'll get far. XD

Also, interesting tidbit.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Zan on February 25, 2012, 10:12:59 AM
Quote
That's easily doable, the entire scene is a background, and when two parts start to assembling, those two parts becomes sprites. The effect is similar to how all the devils works.

Weren't you talking about the first fortress boss in Rockman9? That's the faced turrets with the spike balls. Upon reviewing the actual battle, I notice there's definitely one palette too many in use once the red charging ones make their appearence, but the amount of sprites on screen shouldn't present any real issues beyond some minor flickering. With some simple alternations and tricks, the battle is possible to recreate.

As for the Twin Devil. That one is positively insane to pull off, but definitely somewhat feasible. It's just that the amount of flickering and slowdown cannot be determined without programming it into an actual NES.

Quote
You're in a minority of people that want to see lazy edits instead of original works. All made possible by gripping to the idea that if the NES couldn't do it, then the game shouldn't try. Which is absurd. You can still have an "8bit artstyle" without clinging to archaic hardware  limitations.

You're thinking of this in reverse. By working within those "archaic" hardware limitations, you're forced to employ creative solutions to common game design problems which defined the very core aesthetics of all games on the platform. You have to know what the system can do, then bring out its potential to the max. Blatantly ignoring that doesn't make for better sprites, it just needlessly clutters with detail and color and makes things stands out like a sore thumb.

If you're going to defy the limitations that define the NES, why not go for 16 color sprites, or full-blown HD for that matter?

Quote
I dunno, Zan... Sounds more like excuses to support your argument IMO. "Oh it's hard to tell if the NES could do it or not..."

Well, it's not that the NES couldn't do it. It's just a given that Forte with a more extensive white overlay than Rock (spread over his entire body compared to just his face) would sooner promote flickering and slowdown.  This is not something that can be helped, but it's certainly something that needs to be be minimized; especially since the limits are further strained by him having rapid fire capabilities.

That said, they totally could have made a better sprite, but over-coloring as in the previous fanmade one, isn't the way to go. This new rendition is nice, albeit maybe over-detailed. Good job, nonetheless.

By the way, please fix the background transparency next to his hands.



 
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Blackhook on February 25, 2012, 01:23:15 PM
It's like the Star wars movies. Know why the first 3 were good? LIMITATIONS. That's right, the creators were limited and had to work around their limitations.
Then Georgie got too much freedom...
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Mirby on February 25, 2012, 06:31:56 PM
It's like the Star wars movies. Know why the first 3 were good? LIMITATIONS. That's right, the creators were limited and had to work around their limitations.
Then Georgie got too much freedom...

I've learned myself that limitations are conducive to creativity by working on remixes. Having to work within the restraints of the source track is definitely limiting, but also gives a lot of options.

And to bring it back to MM, consider the fact that the NES is severely limiting in both graphics and audio. The NES could only handle 3 consecutive sounds, and yet we have timeless tracks in those games. Limitations are good, and working within them is a huge learning experience. Anything else is just doing whatever you want.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on February 25, 2012, 06:40:37 PM
Weren't you talking about the first fortress boss in Rockman9? That's the faced turrets with the spike balls. Upon reviewing the actual battle, I notice there's definitely one palette too many in use once the red charging ones make their appearence, but the amount of sprites on screen shouldn't present any real issues beyond some minor flickering. With some simple alternations and tricks, the battle is possible to recreate.

As for the Twin Devil. That one is positively insane to pull off, but definitely somewhat feasible. It's just that the amount of flickering and slowdown cannot be determined without programming it into an actual NES.

You're thinking of this in reverse. By working within those "archaic" hardware limitations, you're forced to employ creative solutions to common game design problems which defined the very core aesthetics of all games on the platform. You have to know what the system can do, then bring out its potential to the max. Blatantly ignoring that doesn't make for better sprites, it just needlessly clutters with detail and color and makes things stands out like a sore thumb.

If you're going to defy the limitations that define the NES, why not go for 16 color sprites, or full-blown HD for that matter?

Well, it's not that the NES couldn't do it. It's just a given that Forte with a more extensive white overlay than Rock (spread over his entire body compared to just his face) would sooner promote flickering and slowdown.  This is not something that can be helped, but it's certainly something that needs to be be minimized; especially since the limits are further strained by him having rapid fire capabilities.

That said, they totally could have made a better sprite, but over-coloring as in the previous fanmade one, isn't the way to go. This new rendition is nice, albeit maybe over-detailed. Good job, nonetheless.

By the way, please fix the background transparency next to his hands.


We can just agree to disagree about working in limitations. But I see we both agree that a better sprite could have been made, and that is the only real point I have been trying to make. Things like black backgrounds, uninspired sprite work, things like that, could have been made better. I'm not saying they should break limitations at all times, because then like you pointed out, why not just go HD? However, they could have thrown an 8-bit background in the black space and still had the same number of characters on screen at once with the current gen hardware's power. Take a look at Mega Man Unlimited, it uses an 8-bit style but still makes things interesting without fully breaking immersion.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: OBJECTION MAN on February 25, 2012, 09:59:37 PM
Take a look at Mega Man Unlimited, it uses an 8-bit style but still makes things interesting without fully breaking immersion.

I can't agree here at all. They take way too many liberties, and there are countless things that just scream "not authentic" in the whole presentation. Its obvious that it is not following the conventions at all, and even at a glance you can tell it doesn't try. If it doesn't even bother to try, it's already broken immersion.

It all rolls back to what Zan was saying; why bother using NES aesthetics if you aren't going to accurately represent it? Might as well just make a new style, or use something from another console era. Otherwise it just comes off as cheap, and lazy, since they obviously didn't care to do it right anyway.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Blackhook on February 25, 2012, 11:29:00 PM
As long as it is fun...
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Mirby on February 25, 2012, 11:37:44 PM
As long as it is fun...
"While everyone's ranting about the minor flaws of a video game that's just fun to play, I'll just sit-down, relax, and watch as all of the troubles fly past me while I just enjoy a simple video game that brings me joy with each new experience I receive."

It's a quote I heard once, and fully believe.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Flame on February 25, 2012, 11:51:26 PM
But-but... Helmets... And Chest plates...
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Blackhook on February 26, 2012, 09:34:06 AM
Don't make me sing the F.U.N song...
DON'T MAKE ME
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Zan on February 27, 2012, 10:42:54 PM
Quote
However, they could have thrown an 8-bit background in the black space and still had the same number of characters on screen at once with the current gen hardware's power.

The thing is, those black backgrounds create part of the very ambiance the NES games are known for. It are the palette limitations that determine when and where they'll be used.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on February 28, 2012, 12:03:25 AM
You playing Mega Man 9 and 10 on the NES? 

Didn't think so. I like the 8-bit art style. I don't like the 8-bit limitations. So, what is so wrong with having the game be in an 8-bit STYLE without all of the imposed NES limitations? These games are not made for the NES, if they where, they wouldn't have online leader boards and DLC. I like the NES style because of the engine it uses, not because the graphics meet some old NES limitations. If they swapped all of the sprites and tile sets out of Mega Man 9 and 10 with HD sprites, like they did in SF2THDRemix, I would like it. Mess with graphics all you want, but leave the core game play and frames alone! I just want Mega Man to move, shoot, and jump like he did in 8-bit, not stick to some fantasy limitation set on by nostalgia. That being said, I like the 8-bit style, just not the limitations. If they wanna stick with that style, that's fine, but for the love of god push SOME boundaries.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: OBJECTION MAN on February 28, 2012, 04:24:50 PM
Style; to design or make in a particular form.

All aspects of the presentation and design, limitations included, create the consistent look of the style. The limitations are a part of the style. Ignore them, and you are not working in the style.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: KoiDrake on February 28, 2012, 06:38:12 PM
Don't bother guys, this won't go anywhere. If you want to discuss this make a new thread or something.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on February 29, 2012, 05:24:12 AM
Don't bother guys, this won't go anywhere. If you want to discuss this make a new thread or something.

This guys got a point. Why are we arguing about or personal opinions again? This discussion will go nowhere. Neither I, nor anyone else is going to change their minds, no matter what point of view is presented. So, why don't we just agree to disagree and talk about what the secret could be?

I do have an idea, maybe it has something to do with the unused throwing animations. Maybe they ARE used, we just haven't found out how.  It is also possible that Mega Man can still slide somehow.

Edit:
Has anyone else noticed how Inticreates leaves little clues as to the next game in the Mega Man series they are working on?

In Mega Man ZXA there was the 8-bit mini game.

In Mega Man 9 there was the Bass sprite.

In Mega Man 10 there is are three DLC Gameboy Levels. Could they be hinting at the recreation of the GB games in NES 8-bit?
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Yllisos Zanon on March 22, 2012, 08:10:17 AM
I have been watching Youtube, especially on the MM9 Secrets, along with actual game play.  I am starting to get a gut feeling, that the stage enemies, are connected to another game somehow.  I'll try to check that theory. 

This gut of mine, can't shake the feeling.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on April 06, 2012, 02:35:49 AM
The current theory is that the secret is in endless mode. I posted in the Ask Capcom forums and got this from S-kill:

AskCapcom (http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_capcom/go/thread/view/7371/28946303/Can_you_do_one_thing_for_Mega_Man_fans&post_num=33#518091489)

I personally like mystery and am not interested in giving even more hints, but Sven has been twisting my arm, so here you go:

To find my secret, you'll have to look further than you ever have before.

That's likely the last hint I plan to give, and if Sven tries to spill it he'll have forever broken the brotherhood and trust of the secret and be subjected to surprise and unapologetic wedgies for time immemorial.

Again, usual disclaimers:

1) yes, "the secret" is real. Just because people looked hard and didn't find it doesn't mean it's not there. If you don't want to believe its there, that's cool with me (and probably a better use of your time).
2) the secret is not a huge deal. It's a footnote that would be included in an FAQ (even if it wasn't "the secret") but of you're looking for secret playable Wily, you'll be sorely disappointed.
3) in the case someone does find it and posts it to the thread, I will tell you "yep, that was it!" and we can cross a game off the list.

Xoxo,
Seth
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Align on April 06, 2012, 01:24:27 PM
Probably have to reach room 9999 or some other significant number.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Mirby on April 06, 2012, 03:35:55 PM
room 121787 :P
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Splash on April 06, 2012, 10:42:26 PM
Somebody tried to complete Fake Man's stage IN 9:59:59?
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Blackhook on April 06, 2012, 10:52:00 PM
Someone tried out all weapons against Wily?
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Karasai♪ on April 06, 2012, 11:06:20 PM
To me,
Quote
you'll have to look further than you ever have before.

Sounds like "the secret is inside-inside of the game, use hacking and look through the game"
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: N-Mario on April 07, 2012, 12:55:11 AM
To me,  
Sounds like "the secret is inside-inside of the game, use hacking and look through the game"

I heard that has already been thought about many times, and has been done at least once before. Even by hacking, no one has been able to find the secret.


I wonder if it has to do with the first games release date being on the endless mode room counter. ;)
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Turian on April 17, 2012, 10:16:14 PM
Wouldn't it be possible to run the counter up using tools in Dolphin's Wiiware emulator?
Title: Pop Fiction tries to solve Mega Man 9's secret
Post by: Da Dood on October 19, 2012, 07:20:28 PM
Here's (http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/2yvg0q/pop-fiction-episode-28--mega-man-mega-mystery) GameTrailers.com's Pop Fiction trying to solve MM9's secret. Pop Fiction is a series where they go all Mythbusters on famous videogame rumors and legends, like the L is real in SM64.

As you can probably expect... yeah. Nothing. Still an interesting video where they even talk to Seth about it.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 20, 2012, 06:30:57 AM
The last secret in Mega Man 9 is Mega Man 10.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: DiveMissle on August 25, 2013, 09:15:28 AM
I am glad this forum got back on topic :)





Instead of talking about bass XD
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: Dr. Wily II on August 25, 2013, 09:22:19 AM
A friendly word of advice, DiveMissile.

Please look at the date of the last post of any thread. This one ended almost 1 year ago.
Unless you have anything substantial to add to the thread, it's recommended to not bump old threads.

Please keep this in mind, and enjoy your stay here.
Lastly, topics derail often in RPM.
Title: Re: Mega Man 9's Secret
Post by: DiveMissle on August 25, 2013, 09:51:09 AM
The topics derail a lot? Sounds like me. 8)



But anyways,thanks for the advice. owob