RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => Zero => Topic started by: Waifu on March 08, 2011, 03:09:40 AM
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I know that Copy X was retconned into being the main villain of the first game but still what if they stuck with the original plan and made Mega Man X the bad guy? what would be different? And what would be the same?
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I think him being the real X would have been far more awesome. A hero's epic downfall. Finally pushed into a no tolerance attitude for the sake of the humans.
Would have made for a much better story. Not quite as kid friendly, but better.
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I don't know how much sense it would make. Plus I'm pretty bored of X and Zero fighting each other. Can't they just [tornado fang] already and get it over with?
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Can't they just [tornado fang] already and get it over with?
The awesome would be too much for the GBA.
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Hasn't this been discussed before?
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I'm trying to [tornado fang]ing write a REAL AND SRS fanfic based around this idea, for a shitload of time now (like... two years now, I think).
But I get constantly side tracked with needless bullshit.
But more on topic, yeah. It would be interesting to see X as the bad guy. It would add much more depth to the game's story. They could even do it in a way that ultimately by the end of the series, X's redeems himself for all the wrongdoings... and dies or some crap.
Either way... I've always liked this idea.
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I know that Copy X was retconned into being the main villain of the first game
You can't call something a retcon when it's neither in-continuity, nor retroactive.
I think him being the real X would have been far more awesome. A hero's epic downfall. Finally pushed into a no tolerance attitude for the sake of the humans.
Would have made for a much better story. Not quite as kid friendly, but better.
I'm trying to [tornado fang]ing write a REAL AND SRS fanfic based around this idea, for a shitload of time now (like... two years now, I think).
But I get constantly side tracked with needless bullshit.
But more on topic, yeah. It would be interesting to see X as the bad guy. It would add much more depth to the game's story. They could even do it in a way that ultimately by the end of the series, X's redeems himself for all the wrongdoings... and dies or some crap.
Either way... I've always liked this idea.
I think you're both underestimating how much Cyber-Elf X actually adds to the series. Many of its greatest moments could not have happened had the real X been the villain.
So, no, it does NOT make a better and deeper story, at all. Just a different one.
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I think you're both underestimating how much Cyber-Elf X actually adds to the series. Many of its greatest moments could not have happened had the real X been the villain.
So, no, it does NOT make a better and deeper story, at all. Just a different one.
Well... we could have not gotten such awesome moments like Elpis killing X. You're right. : >
Yeah, I know, I know. Our original X was portrayed interesting too, without being a villain. What with using his body to seal the Dark Elf and whatnot. Oh, and that stuff about losing the point behind all the battles, and that he eventually stopped caring completely.
But I still stand by my statement, that Original X as a villain, who ultimately redeems himself for his actions is a good, and even better idea than a [tornado fang]ing copy. OR EVEN BETTER! X gets his ass kicked by Zero, and doesn't redeem himself at all, believing until the very end of his misguided existence he was right.
But of course, we might never know because LOL COPY.
: <
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I think turning X into a villain would be a bad idea. I wouldn't have problems if it was any other good guy from the X series but X? A Megaman? The hero of the X series? The kind X who hesitates killing a maverick because it was once a normal reploid? The X that saved the world countless times? You have played as him and you liked him. And now he's a villain who does the opposite of what he has been doing? You know how much of a kick to the face for X fans that would be?
I don't care how deep the story could've been. I don't care if it would be a symbolic plot twist or something like that. I am grateful that inticrates scrapped the original idea.
It's for reasons like this that I dislike Quint from the original series.
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I think turning X into a villain would be a bad idea. I wouldn't have problems if it was any other good guy from the X series but X? A Megaman? The hero of the X series? The kind X who hesitates killing a maverick because it was once a normal reploid? The X that saved the world countless times? You have played as him and you liked him. And now he's a villain who does the opposite of what he has been doing? You know how much of a kick to the face for X fans that would be?
I don't care how deep the story could've been. I don't care if it would be a symbolic plot twist or something like that. I am grateful that inticrates scrapped the original idea.
It's for reasons like this that I dislike Quint from the original series.
I don't want to argue or anything... but what part of FALLEN HERO you don't understand?
It's exactly for that reason, because you played as him and you liked him, turning him into a villain IS a good idea.
Because it makes a [tornado fang]ing IMPACT on you. It leaves a MARK.
It also opens a path to interesting character development, if the scriptwriter(s) are up to it, and considering how Zero is the most plotty of all platformer Rockman games, I think they were.
I agree, that if they just simply turned X into an evil bastard without saying anything about why and when... then yeah, it sucks.
But considering the amount of backstory we've got for certain characters, such as Elpis, Vile... heck, even Kraft and the [tornado fang]ing Judges... welll... you get the point I think.
TL;DR:
Tyrant X IS a good idea, and I believe they could have done it right if it was approved.
There. That's my opinion on this.
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I understand it very well. And because of that I don't think it would be ok. Who knows, it really could have been a better story but there would still be this feeling that something isn't right. That's just me though.
Also, don't bash on Copy X. When you think about it he isn't a bad character himself. I've seen many fallen heroes, but what about a replacement hero? CX wasn't a hero, he was nothing, he didn't have his own identity. He was given the role of hero and he did all he could to prove his worth, though sadly he never understood what it was to be one...
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I don't really hate Copy that much. I like him, really.
But when I think about what could have been, well you know already.
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It would have been a bit too much X's story, I think. But then I guess the series could just have been called Megaman Next Millenium or something.
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While X being the bad guy could leave an impact, it might not leave the right one, you know? The justification for his Face Heel Turn could be badly written or even a non-reason, and with a guy like X, you have to be really careful about explaining it.
Besides, who says the writers wouldn't chicken out and pull something like "LOL reprogrammed", so that X wouldn't be responsible for his actions and thus is still (sorta) a good guy? That'd be a lot worse than "LOL copy", at least to me.
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There would be VERY little in the way of WHY X would go bad. His heart feeling nothing is pretty sad, yes, but not something that would suddenly make him the complete opposite of what he has been forever. I mean, Zero doesnt really care much about the Mavericks he kills, you dont see HIM becoming a tyrant. What happened to X was simply a sad case of a pacifist becoming battle hardened.
X suddenly becoming the bad guy just wouldnt be a good idea. It wouldnt make a deep story, In fact it's deeper without X bad guy. Because we have a copy, a story BEHIND the copy, and the original, who is tied in with the story of the copy. We wouldnt have that with bad guy X.
I don't want to argue or anything... but what part of FALLEN HERO you don't understand?
the exact same part Inti Creates apparently didnt understand, because Blackhook pretty much just stated EXACTLY why Inti changed it last minute.
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It owuld had been interesting to see X as the villain but Copy X always seems to get the short of the end of the stick in the series. I often wonder where the plot would go if that happnen? The Infaking pretty much went along with the changes and Zero became what it is today because of it. I wonder if the plot of the Dark Elf be different as Orginal X sealed it himself to stop the Elf Wars.
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I think you're both underestimating how much Cyber-Elf X actually adds to the series.
I think you're underestimating how much would have to be done to make X do that. That's some seriously deep stuff.
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And there's a serious risk of character derailment, which isn't deep.
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Le sigh...
Flame: You're missing the point, sorta.
People change, my friend. Their viewpoints change, especially over time... and as we know, X is full of emotions, because he was created that way. He can make his own decisions. So what's there to stop him, from suddenly getting pissed at everything, and by everything I mean of course, all those goddamn Irregulars who keep causing harm? Considering he can make his own decisions, he can also make such decisions which are simply wrong. After all, nobody is perfect. Not X, nor Zero nor anybody.
So with that in mind, the plot of Tyrant X, can be done in many ways. Some of them might lead to failure (like the example I mentioned earlier) or they can be done right.
Heck, if you really want to, you don't even have to make X that much of a bad guy. You can make him even more tragic, by making him a character who created that horrible policy of Repliroid disposal, because he simply had no other choice, and was forced into it by the bad situation Neo Arcadia and humanity in general was in. In other words, make him do something he clearly hates. He's fighting for it, even though he knows it's wrong.
There are many ways to do it right, you just have to think. But as I said previously, we'll never know because LOL CAPCOM.
meh
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I don't know how much sense it would make. Plus I'm pretty bored of X and Zero fighting each other. Can't they just [tornado fang] already and get it over with?
^ Word.
On a less more serious note, I don't think it'll work out unless they have a damned good backstory for the sudden 360 180.
I haven't been able to think up of any excuse that's good enough that doesn't involve something silly like reprogramming or memory wiping or something. I mean, all throughout the X series, they worked hard to make X all LOVE AND PEACE! <3 And no matter what he'd always be all cute and trusting. So it'd probably take a lot of Deus Angst Machina to Break the Cutie.
And Deus Angst Machina doesn't usually make for a good plotline unless you're into that kinda stuffs.
Granted, if you did it well it could be interesting and thought provoking, but Nuuu I dun wannit =(! X has been through enough~~
But yeah, I think that if they implemented that, it'd probably be just played for shock value. Which they could've done with Copy X by leaving The Reveal at the very very end.
On second thoughts, they could have an awesome Crowning Moment of Heartwarming where X and Zero are finally reunited and Zero finally reminds X about all that he's fighting for an)ry
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On second thoughts, they could have an awesome Crowning Moment of Heartwarming where X and Zero are finally reunited and Zero finally reminds X about all that he's fighting for an)ry
And then sex happens 8D
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I think you're underestimating how much would have to be done to make X do that. That's some seriously deep stuff.
"That much" is what we would call a sheer impossibility. X is a hero, albeit a tragic one, that would always fight for everyone's sake. He does not take to bias; that is the entire foundation of his character.
Also, I stand by what I said earlier; review the entire ZERO-series, see how much of it relies on Cyber Elf X. The entire foundation of the series' greatest moments comes crumbling down without Zero's undying devotion toward X's cause.
So be it... But that's why we are the best partners... I'll do what you want... Rest for a while. I will handle it, you can count on me. I won't stop! When an enemy appears... I'll terminate it..
we'll never know because LOL CAPCOM.
The decision to replace X with Copy-X was Inti's, and Inti's alone. It was a well-thought out decision on their part.
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I can only repeast myself, again:
I appreciate Copy-X existence since it prevented that real X got killed by Zero.
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I honestly think they did Copy X because of that. And so much of the series is also based on the copy part. If I'm not mistaken, aren't Galleons basically a simple mass-produced X copy? And in Zero 3, it wouldn't be as epic if it was still real X. The very fact they had Copy X Mark II shows that the copy mechanic works wonders for storyline. Especially with the personality of Mark II. I mean, I almost cried at the end of Zero 3 because of true X, but it was good. And all the better for it.
[spoiler]
Speaking of which, you kinda are playing as copy Zero anyways... Or at least, a copy body...[/spoiler]
Also... I don't think the final fight in Zero 1 would have been nearly as awesome in presentation nor dialogue if it was real X.
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Also..where would Zero get his saber from if there was no Cyber X? :D
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ITT: People with no imagination, who would rather have characters stay the same instead of writers adding some interesting things to both the plot and the characters.
[spoiler]I'm not hating or anything, just saying the truth.[/spoiler]
I mean... none of you even bothered to discuss what I wrote about MOSTLY in my posts, instead jumping at other things and continuing with your silly little delusions that making X stay the same through the whole course of the story is a good idea.
....
You know what? I'M PISSED because of something else right now(Real life thing) so I'll direct my anger at this thread.
You know what's the real truth? HONEST truth? Characters like X are, pretty much, [tornado fang]ing horrible. I'll admit, Inti managed to make him a bit more interesting through that whole "I LOST MY PURPOSE" thing, but it still didn't change the fact... that HE didn't really change at all.
He was still the holy robo-Jesus he always was.
Now, I'm not saying I want to have X go and kill everyone and everything at random... but I just overall want him to become more believable.
Because seriously, I get the point that he's a good natured pacifist in both za haato and maindo, but this is not the right way.
I mean, isn't he supposed to be a robot with a "soul"? Isn't he supposed to have shitload of emotions? If so, then what's so wrong, what's so OUT OF CHARACTER in him finally giving up, and choosing to create a law which according to him is the lsser of two evils?
Or let's take a different look, taking another one of the examples from my previous posts.
Let's say real X made the law to dispose of all Repliroids that are even suspected of being Irregulars, but he hates it. He hates the very thing he did, but he knows there's no other choice, at least not at that moment.
The important thing here is obvious. Just because a character starts doing things, seemingly against his nature, it does not mean it's a bad thing.
Especially taking into account how much time X has spent alone, fighting without his best buddy Zero. Since he is such a EMOTIONAL Repliroid, it would be only natural for him to be wrong about something, or even stray from his usual path (a lot, or only a bit... which depends on the take you want to go with)
In other words, MAN THE [tornado fang] UP GUYS (or GIRL THE [tornado fang] UP). Stop being so boring and think about nice possibilities, instead of categorizing every change in a charater as a "bad one" or "Failure".
That's it from me for now.
Remember, I'm not hating, just sayian what I think on this whole matter of "Real X villain" thing. : >
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If you want to write fanfics..do it.
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If you want to write fanfics..do it.
No. Just no.
Don''t turn my posts in this thread into some sick and pathetic fanfic idea (even though I had one like this, it was still different from the examples I presented here).
I was actually trying to just raise a point on how turning the real X into a villain opens many ways oif storytelling, and doesn't mean chara derailment and bad plot.
Jesus.
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And don't call us a bunch of spineless hacks for being wary of such a massive change to X's character going horribly wrong.
No. Just no.
Don''t turn my posts in this thread into some sick and pathetic fanfic idea (even though I had one like this, it was still different from the examples I presented here).
I was actually trying to just raise a point on how turning the real X into a villain opens many ways oif storytelling, and doesn't mean chara derailment and bad plot.
Jesus.
So what, all fanfic = character derailment and idiot plots? Because that's not true.
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I sense a lock in this thread's future...
Anywho, I did read what you said in your posts, but I just thought I'd say my thoughts on the subject first. You did bring up some very good points, but I don't think the series, or ZX for that matter, would be the same if real X was the bad guy instead of Copy X. And, honestly, I think if that was the case you'd be here asking "What if Mega Man X wasn't the bad guy?" and coming up with possibilities as to who would be, probably with Copy X at the head of the list.
Just my thoughts.
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And don't call us a bunch of spineless hacks for being wary of such a massive change to X's character going horribly wrong.
So what, all fanfic = character derailment and idiot plots? Because that's not true.
That's not what I... [tornado fang] it. I'm not explaining anything anymore.
I'll only say, that what I presented in my posts was POSSIBLE scenarios of Tyrant X, and I never intended to force my opinion on anybody, nor did I wanted to say Inti would NOT possibly screw up bad guy X. Also, I didn't want to insult anybody, so if you feel insulted. Well... sorry about that.
: /
I sense a lock in this thread's future...
Anywho, I did read what you said in your posts, but I just thought I'd say my thoughts on the subject first. You did bring up some very good points, but I don't think the series, or ZX for that matter, would be the same if real X was the bad guy instead of Copy X. And, honestly, I think if that was the case you'd be here asking "What if Mega Man X wasn't the bad guy?" and coming up with possibilities as to who would be, probably with Copy X at the head of the list.
Just my thoughts.
Ha, ha... maybe I would, maybe I would not. We might never know. Just like we might never know if Tyrant X would turn out to be a good thing.
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Overall, I'm sorry that I wanted to state my own opinion on this subject, that I presented my own possibilities regarding it, and that I dared to disagree with some of you. Sorry again. : <
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Overall, I'm sorry that I wanted to state my own opinion on this subject, that I presented my own possibilities regarding it, and that I dared to disagree with some of you. Sorry again. : <
My problem was that you were yelling at us in that last post. :/
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My problem was that you were yelling at us in that last post. :/
I didn't yell in any of my posts.
As I said I'm kinda pissed, so maybe it just came out that way, really.
Sorry again.
I just wanted to start/take part in some megaman discussion for a change, but I might have overdid it.
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o/ I said that it was possible, and that it could be cool, but do not want. It would be too angsty. And tragic.
Also, aren't alternate possibilities that are non-canonical the whole point of fanfics? A fanfic doesn't have to be bad. A doujin doesn't have to be porn. Right?
Um...also...uh...when you're angry, you tend to sound angry. This is fact. When you're taking out your anger on a forum post the forum post also tends to sound angry. Sounding angry whilst addressing others usually suggests that you're angry at them.
If you don't want people to get angry at you for sounding angry then don't make a post...whilst angry. Parts of that may not have made sense.
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The "Fallen Hero" thing only works, IMHO, if the hero in question is no longer being used. The fact that the X-series was ongoing throws quite a monkey wrench into that, which is one point Inti actually brought up in the "X changed to Copy X" discussion. It makes any chronologically previous character development, which is still being worked on, absolutely meaningless if you already know that it's all going to end in a 180 turn during the series-gap.
Copy X MK1 is himself a character that I grew rather fond of, because he's the kind of villain I love to hate. He's not just evil, his powers of suggestion are among the most dangerous we've seen. Most serious villains believe that they're doing the right thing, but to turn previous heroes (the Big Four) to your cause, not through coersion or infection, but through name recognition and rationalization? That's when you know you're dealing with somebody sick; his methods to corrupt others is something unique to what we usually see in the MegaMan story.
It also really does fly in the face of X's purpose, the whole theme of viewing human and robotic life equally. It's something they made a point of emphasizing in later X-series games, in Inti's own Zero-series concepts (the infamous Three Keys, for example), and which also eases the inevitable tie-in to Legends, where we find artificial beings virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. The effects of making X the villain would cause ripples well beyond the Zero-series alone. Good or bad, it's something to consider.
Heck, if you really want to, you don't even have to make X that much of a bad guy. You can make him even more tragic, by making him a character who created that horrible policy of Repliroid disposal, because he simply had no other choice, and was forced into it by the bad situation Neo Arcadia and humanity in general was in. In other words, make him do something he clearly hates. He's fighting for it, even though he knows it's wrong.
They basically did that with Harpuia, making him the most "X-like" of the Big Four across Z2 and Z3.
Also, I stand by what I said earlier; review the entire ZERO-series, see how much of it relies on Cyber Elf X. The entire foundation of the series' greatest moments comes crumbling down without Zero's undying devotion toward X's cause.
So be it... But that's why we are the best partners... I'll do what you want... Rest for a while. I will handle it, you can count on me. I won't stop! When an enemy appears... I'll terminate it..
I have to agree. X himself is a tremendous part of Zero's motivation, reiterated throughout the X-series all the way up until Zero4. Their bond is a pretty heavy foundation for both characters, across both series. Had X truly flipped, then combined with Zero's amnesia, it would cause Zero's own character to warp. His future character developments would be difficult if not impossible to tie back to the Zero we're familiar with from XXX years ago.
In itself, this wouldn't necessarily be bad, but it does pose quite a risk of alienation when Inti has already screwed with Zero's design to the furthest degree that Inafune would let them get away with, and wiped his memory on top of that, meaning the changes to his personality would tie in no way whatsoever to his past experiences. And that's the problem. There's a difference between character growth and character reboot. Zero's look and memory are screwed to hell; it's his motivations that keep his identity intact throughout the Zero series. Otherwise we're left with "Mega Man Red Guy With A Sword".
Also, on great moments:I appreciate Copy-X existence since it prevented that real X got killed by Zero.
"...the original X was mightier than you!"
I can't tell you how much I love that line. Taking someone who got on top of the world by abusing a true hero's name, and putting him in his place. 8)
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On the one hand, I love that X's 100 years of fighting and trying to build a better world didn't go to waste because X made mistakes he knew were wrong. You'd think after a century you'd learn something about conflict resolution and societal integrity/people's rights, even if you did stop caring. It's hard to shake your own conscience when you've got something to fight for. Like two races of sentient beings/the world.
On the other hand, I DO agree that having the real X as a fallen hero, and not necessarily a typical "BAD GUY" like Sigma, would've made a good tragedy. I just think it would've been too tragic, and almost a petty mistake on Inafune's part that makes him look all butthurt that X was the hero of the X series and not Zero. 'Specially since, y'know, showing his boss "X" as the main character with Zero as the cooler sidekick was his idea in the first place.
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You'd think after a century you'd learn something about conflict resolution and societal integrity/people's rights, even if you did stop caring.
Us humans have been at it for thousands of years and look where we still are.
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I can only repeast myself, again:
I appreciate Copy-X existence since it prevented that real X got killed by Zero.
Agreed.
I don't think I ever put my two cents in on the matter, but honestly, I'm damn happy that the character didn't evolve and go in a direction that would pretty much tarnish his legacy. Sometimes pure characters should stay pure and given how the Zero series portrayed X as a exceedingly tired and somber personality versus his passionate and optimistic self in the X series, even that much comes into question.
While I agree that the fallen hero angle could work and would probably be something big due to player attachments and the idea that without Zero's memories of X from back in the days (thus pretty much wiping out all ties back to previous characterizations and also their shared history), it's just a bit too tragic for his character.
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I'm not going to argue, since I really don't give a [tornado fang] anymore.
But I'll throw in two things:
One, I would have been willing to accept Copy X more, if.. IF, we would have actually seen him more. The most we've seen of him was in the third game. Yet there he was, a casual tool in the hands of Vile... with speech problems to boot.
Two, Saying that is it would be too tragic for X, reeks of blind fanboyism. Nothing is too tragic for a character. Unless your character is from a fluffy and puffy world where everything always works out thanks to the magic of friendship.
But I think Rockman X/Zero world was supposed to be this kinda dark post-apocalyptic world where [parasitic bomb] gets [tornado fang]'d up for people more than often.
Oh but what do I know?
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Are you telling me that you would STILL enjoy X in the MMX series if you knew he was goint to turn into Hitler?
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I would.
I don't really see the connection, if we're talking enjoyment. It's the journey that's interesting, not the destination. In fact that's pretty much what character development is all about.
It might add a weird tragic undertone to everything he does, but that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for a character...
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Are you telling me that you would STILL enjoy X in the MMX series if you knew he was goint to turn into Hitler?
Yes. Because...
I would.
I don't really see the connection, if we're talking enjoyment. It's the journey that's interesting, not the destination. In fact that's pretty much what character development is all about.
It might add a weird tragic undertone to everything he does, but that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for a character...
... Pretty much this. There's no real problem with making X the villain. In fact, I believe I said in this thread few times how it could have been handled WITHOUT completely "destroying" (like some of you claim) his character.
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Eh...if you say so. Though, I can't imagine it working all that well...but I guess our opinions are too different.
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Well, it's all down to execution. Inti Creates somehow got it right with the MMZ we all know, but I dunno if they would have managed the same with the real X.
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Two, Saying that is it would be too tragic for X, reeks of blind fanboyism. Nothing is too tragic for a character. Unless your character is from a fluffy and puffy world where everything always works out thanks to the magic of friendship.
But I think Rockman X/Zero world was supposed to be this kinda dark post-apocalyptic world where [parasitic bomb] gets [tornado fang]'d up for people more than often.
Oh but what do I know?
Because Zero wasn't favored enough by Inafune over X. He should also be the villain in the sequel series to X.
Still, it would've made for a good story if X became the Sigma of the Zero series, with some kind of redemption at the end of the first game. It would just [acid burst] me off if that would've been the last we'd ever hear of him. Aside from his clone troopers.
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Well X isn't the villain in the Zero series.The villain is Copy X.He was a copy of the original X that Ciel created.Because the original X was missing or guarding the dark elf like it was shown in MMZ2 he was guarding the dark elf in his sleep.But still if X were the villain in the zero series it would have been awesome.So yea pretty much X would have been a great villain in the Zero series if he was the original X...but alas the villain is copy X.And when Elpizo or whatever his name is...destroyed the dark elf's prison along with the original X thus ending X's existence but X lived on as an elf as well...in MMZ3 it was proven that X was still alive but he left at the end of Zero 3.Still if the original X was the villain he would be a lot stronger...copy X is a very inferior copy to the original X.The original X's armor was a lot better then the copy's armor...the original X had like a billion armors before and somehow he loses them all the time.That question remains...how does X lose all of his armors after every single X game?Sill copy X is extremely weaker then the original X thus proving that the X in the zero series is a copy.Except the one that was keeping the dark elf sealed up but Elpizo or whatever his name is blew up the original X also the dark elf's imprisoning and that is how X was gone from the zero series but in MMZ3 X appeared as an elf i think...But in MMZ3 he also left.And still if the original X was the villain it would be a lot harder to fight him...seriously.
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..Why thank you for making that clear...
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Are you telling me that you would STILL enjoy X in the MMX series if you knew he was goint to turn into Hitler?
It worked with Metal Gear.
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You know what, if someone here manages to write a good megaman zero plot where the REAL X is the villain, then I will agree with you.
I doubt though that anyone would much effort into it...
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I'm not agreeing with them, I'm just saying that it COULD work. The story wouln't be any better or worse than the original, just different.
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I might feel better about X as the first villain in Zero if the Mega Man X series belonged more to X than Zero, and employed better story writing and character development with regard to X and Sigma, but also Zero. Something to make X an inspiring, effective character rather than one who's just doomed to be a villain in the next series, his own being a mere stepping stone to the next one. As it is, the story is no more deep than X vs Zero vs Sigma. Great action game, but there's not much there in the way of a stirring plot that can appropriately build up to a WTF role reversal in the bleaker Zero series.
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How much of a plot can you build in an action game without detracting from the action, I wonder? Part of the X-series's strength is its focus on gameplay, how easily you can jump in and blow [parasitic bomb] up without having to sit through half an hour of exposition. Sure, some of Zero's best character moments came out of the Zero series, but we definitely paid for it in terms of how much dialogue we had to sit through.
Although even in the context of the X-series gameplay there are probably greater steps that could have been taken. Part of the problem is Sigma. X is supposed to be an emotional and often conflicted hero, but by the time games evolved to the point where we expect to hear X speak more than two lines per game, he'd already fought Sigma so many times that Sigma was already the exception to the rule in terms of how X responds to his opponents. Admittedly, he kind of has to be; X would have come off as awfully gullible if he still doubted his battle against Sigma by X4 or X5.
I think X's best game in terms of character development was X6 (you know, the one that Inafune didn't want to exist, surprise surprise), because it showed us how X responds to a fresh face. Seeing somebody trying to take advantage of the world already on its knees, destroying his best friend's image, and abusing his power, X shows a sense of clarity and determination that we don't often see from him, and yet still holds onto his compassion after all is said and done. I'd imagine that's the kind of X that most people envision when they complain about other games leaving him feel whiney or wishy-washy.
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Yeah, X6 really had the best X characterization in the series.
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And that lead into his spiraling whiny depression in X7....
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Its funny how all through the X series, X-X5 anyway, Zero got all the characterization, since he was the only one to ever actually interact with anyone. He got all the "cool" dialogues that gave us insight into his personality and character.
X... Not so much, aside from his bit in the intro stage.
That's something that Maverick Hunter X did well on, since it added the pre-boss fight dialogue to the game, as well as overall just giving X more lines and stuff.
in X6, since X is the default character and Zero is an optional bonus, X HAS to have strong characterization. Since Zero is not there to steal the spotlight due to being optional. (though the plot revolves around him anyway)
X8 was pretty good with X too, and X7 for it's terrible writing of X's character, at least tried to do something with it.
It's amazing how under Inafune, X, the main character, got such little characterization in favor of the "favorite son" Zero. It took Inafune leaving the role of X series producer for X to get the spotlight. (Honestly, the way X was shafted in X4 in terms of cutscene screen time is simply atrocious)
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X4 was pretty much "Megaman X - Zero gets to be a main character!! Oh and X is there too."
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X4 was pretty much "Megaman X - Zero gets to be a main character!! Oh and X is there too."
That's not funny! His Girlfriend died in that game!
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Exactly. HIS girlfriend. ZERO's girlfriend.
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That event shifted Zero's character to what we see of him later in the series. X4 was quite crucial for that characterization.
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You know when it comes to the X series I've always thought that every 3 games they change the focus not on just X the whole time, but rather the other characters he works with (though this wasn't the original intension, still it ended up like it).
Megaman X1 - X3 was all about X and his constant battles between the Sigma and his forces, with Zero helping X along the way.
Megaman X4 - X6 still had X, but mostly focused on Zero when you played as him, while you learned most of Zero's background in previous games you finally got to play as him, and see just what goes through his mind so to speak. Granted it was suppose to end at X5 but with X6 made it continued the story and (whenever you want to or not) brought Zero back and tackled a new threat (at least up until the end). While it was suppose to lead up to the Zero games with X6 inticreates and Inafking desided to change things around, hence why we have Copy X today (or they didn't want X to be a bad guy after all). Honestly they didn't need to do that and just end the X series with X6 but hey I'm not complaining.
Megaman X7, X8, and probably X9 focuses on the new guy Axl and the New Generation Reploids, with Axl joining the hunters X & Zero and stopping this new threat from destroying the world. X7 (while being the weakest game in the series) sets up the stage, X8 is where it all plays out, and whenever we get a X9 it will be the certain call for Axl's story (Will he die? I don't know but if so I hope he can be brought back or something, I actually like Axl).
Now as for X being a badguy, I'm all for it! Hell Capcom can make a game about just that if they wanted to, most of what you guys posted sounds great and would be a great story with Zero and X in a conflict that they could end up killing each other. Though it's unlikely (Especially as of 2/4/12) but still if they wanted to explore other ways of taking the Series in a different turn with alternate stories of the existing sub-series that would be pretty cool. Kinda like what they did for the Battle Network/Star Force crossover in a way, or Megaman Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X.
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Axl can't die in X9, Mike; he has to survive to appear in Command Mission during 22XX, after Copy Chip technology has all but vanished and Axl's own copy abilities have been noticeably improved.
That event shifted Zero's character to what we see of him later in the series. X4 was quite crucial for that characterization.
I hate to say this, since yeah Iris died in that game, but dragging his girlfriend into it (or hell, even establishing that Zero has any social life to begin with) was pretty much necessary for him to believably do anything other than just be an unresponsive hardass for the entire game.
Zero in X1-3 shoots first and talks later. He looks badass while doing it due to dramatic timing, but if you're going to play the whole game as him, then yeah, it'll take more than that. X4 delivered on him, at least. For X they kinda always had his character set up but never really depicted it in-game before, so they got to do something that looked fresh on the surface but was old news to people who were paying attention during the solemn ending texts of the SNES.
It's kinda funny how people think that Zero "stole the spotlight" in the PS1 games, when truly in the SNES games X didn't do a damn thing in terms of characterization. MHX definitely helped him out quite a bit in that department, but it's the especially young/naive/inexperience X1 X, not the leader of the Hunters that we respect in the later games. That particular element of X's character is a bit of a void, with nothing beyond the basic premise of "hates fighting unless it's Sigma" and no further fleshing out, all the way up until X6.
It wasn't just X that got the short end of the stick, though, the supporting cast took some hits as well. Much as I love Iris, in X4 she is an entirely passive character who exists for no reason other than invoking emotion from Zero (in Xtreme2 she actually, you know, did something), it's just that we're following up the Super NES so expectations in story-telling weren't that high yet, but there was a lot of missed potential there. And I really can't tell you how much I disliked Alia in X5 (I mean besides the constant gameplay interruptions). Her dialogue came off as heartless, stuck-up, and married to her work. X6 gave her both a backstory and a personality, which in turn made her more believable as a "big sister" type character in X7 and X8.
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Axl can't die in X9, Mike; he has to survive to appear in Command Mission during 22XX, after Copy Chip technology has all but vanished and Axl's own copy abilities have been noticeably improved.
I hate to say this, since yeah Iris died in that game, but dragging his girlfriend into it (or hell, even establishing that Zero has any social life to begin with) was pretty much necessary for him to believably do anything other than just be an unresponsive hardass for the entire game.
Zero in X1-3 shoots first and talks later. He looks badass while doing it due to dramatic timing, but if you're going to play the whole game as him, then yeah, it'll take more than that. X4 delivered on him, at least. For X they kinda always had his character set up but never really depicted it in-game before, so they got to do something that looked fresh on the surface but was old news to people who were paying attention during the solemn ending texts of the SNES.
It's kinda funny how people think that Zero "stole the spotlight" in the PS1 games, when truly in the SNES games X didn't do a damn thing in terms of characterization. MHX definitely helped him out quite a bit in that department, but it's the especially young/naive/inexperience X1 X, not the leader of the Hunters that we respect in the later games. That particular element of X's character is a bit of a void, with nothing beyond the basic premise of "hates fighting unless it's Sigma" and no further fleshing out, all the way up until X6.
It wasn't just X that got the short end of the stick, though, the supporting cast took some hits as well. Much as I love Iris, in X4 she is an entirely passive character who exists for no reason other than invoking emotion from Zero (in Xtreme2 she actually, you know, did something), it's just that we're following up the Super NES so expectations in story-telling weren't that high yet, but there was a lot of missed potential there. And I really can't tell you how much I disliked Alia in X5 (I mean besides the constant gameplay interruptions). Her dialogue came off as heartless, stuck-up, and married to her work. X6 gave her both a backstory and a personality, which in turn made her more believable as a "big sister" type character in X7 and X8.
You know the ending of X8 DID say that years later the new gen reploids with the copy chip went back into production, it didn't say HOW many years later they did. So for all we know, CM takes place after X8 and before X9 (Whenever the hell that's made). Besides it's never established what the XX in 21XX is, it could have been 2150 or 2160 for all we know in the first X game, therefore setting up for 22XX in CM. Then again that's another topic all together, I'm just saying CM might take place before X9. That and I never finished CM, I know the basic plot and ending of it but still I could just be off this whole time. Also about the SNES X games come to think about it what did we really know about Megaman in his NES days? I mean sure he got double the games X did in his debut console but really other then some subtle differences both characters backgrounds weren't given much depth either, then again those were different times in the gaming industry.
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Command Mission was released prior to X8 and going directly from X8 into it leaves too many unanswered questions with Axl. If he returns to action with an enhanced copy ability and no consequences otherwise prior to X9, then there's no sense in killing him off, and the sinister foreboding of X8's ending is all for nothing (at least in the case of him personally). While it's true that we don't know the exact timeframe between games, Axl's dialogue in XCM implies that he's been separated from X and Zero for a while.
And it's not that copy chips (besides Axl's, I mean) don't appear in XCM, they do. It's that they're referenced as a long lost piece of technology, basically a "holy grail" to thieves and bounty hunters. Marino failed to track down any copy-capable Reploids (which are common as dirt in X8) before she met Axl.
Also, this is just speculation on my part, but I believe that XCM was purposefully distanced from the main X series in both time and setting so as to excuse the fact that usual non-playable support characters do not appear. It's not really meant to flow in between main series games in the way that, say, the Xtremes are.
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Command Mission was released prior to X8 and going directly from X8 into it leaves too many unanswered questions with Axl. If he returns to action with an enhanced copy ability and no consequences otherwise prior to X9, then there's no sense in killing him off, and the sinister foreboding of X8's ending is all for nothing (at least in the case of him personally). While it's true that we don't know the exact timeframe between games, Axl's dialogue in XCM implies that he's been separated from X and Zero for a while.
And it's not that copy chips (besides Axl's, I mean) don't appear in XCM, they do. It's that they're referenced as a long lost piece of technology, basically a "holy grail" to thieves and bounty hunters. Marino failed to track down any copy-capable Reploids (which are common as dirt in X8) before she met Axl.
Also, this is just speculation on my part, but I believe that XCM was purposefully distanced from the main X series in both time and setting so as to excuse the fact that usual non-playable support characters do not appear. It's not really meant to flow in between main series games in the way that, say, the Xtremes are.
I know CM came out before X8, but both games specificaly state which years they are in (well as specific as Megaman games can get with years), It's still 21XX for X8 and 22XX for CM. Now that does make a lot of sence, that CM is the future of the X games in terms of timeline, but until X9 does come out we can't be exactly sure if CM takes place far into the future for the X series or not. I mean as X8 stated at the end they stopped making the copy chips after X8, only for them to make more of them years later. YEARS later, as in it could have been a long time for them to make that choice to reproduce them, so for all we know X9 could take place after CM. It MIGHT I'm not saying that it does, and while I like it that CM can eventually set itself in the timeline like the Xtreme did (if my theory is moot, which it probably is), that would mean that Axl's future after X8 is set in stone, meaning we already know that he's okay and not a threat to anyone. It makes Axl's ending in X8 underwelming if that's the case (which it probably is). Not that I don't want him to survive (or die and pull a Sigma and Zero), I like the character, he brings Bass' gameplay from MM&B and MM10 into the X series. I do wonder what happens to him after the X series though, I mean during the Elf Wars timeline that is, then again I can say that about everyone else but X and Zero. He's probably dead by then.
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What if Copy X was the good guy?
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Now THAT would be great to see
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He thought he was, already...
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For Copy X, good intentions paved the road to hell.