RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => ZX => Topic started by: Flame on October 08, 2009, 08:57:17 PM
-
Its very possible, what do you think? I was playing, and noticed that there is Red's face all over the ship in ZXA. Is it possible, that whatever was left of Red Alert, after X7, eventually became the Raiders? I mean, we all thought Repliforce was annihalated in X4 and after 5, and yet they survived long enough that their ships still existed in Neo Arcadia.
Discuss?.
-
Maybe. Does it change anything?
-
Maybe. Does it change anything?
It makes Model A Axl.
-
...wut?
-
as if it wasn't to begin with.
-
Wow Capcom DID have a reason to put a model character that by the story isnt supposed to fricking exist since x7 has nothing to do with the zero ZX series in the first place.
-
Wow Capcom DID have a reason to put a model character that by the story isnt supposed to fricking exist since x7 has nothing to do with the zero ZX series in the first place.
What exactly are you trying to tell us here?
-
and noticed that there is Red's face all over the ship in ZXA
Really? : o
Pic please?
-
Is it possible, that whatever was left of Red Alert, after X7, eventually became the Raiders?
And, more importantly, does anyone care?
-
Really? : o
Pic please?
(http://lol.rockmanpm.com/zxa-raiderpursuit01.png) (http://lol.rockmanpm.com/zxa-raiderpursuit02.png)
-
Huh, I never noticed the Red-in-a-capsule before...
Wow Capcom DID have a reason to put a model character that by the story isnt supposed to fricking exist since x7 has nothing to do with the zero ZX series in the first place.
That is the stupidest thing I've heard since the lunch lady's sixth husband, Phillipe, ran away to the Nunnery.
X7 is as much a part of Zero/ZX background as any other X-series game. X6's preview-sealing, X7's foreboding dreams, Orbital Elevators (Z1, Z3, X8, and XCM there), Omega's Rekkoha (X6 skill), and probably many more points that I'm not bothering to keep track of.
-
Wow Capcom DID have a reason to put a model character that by the story isnt supposed to fricking exist since x7 has nothing to do with the zero ZX series in the first place.
English, mother [tornado fang]er. Do you speak it?
-
Huh, I never noticed the Red-in-a-capsule before...
It's nothing like Red. It's more like a sort of recolored Galleon with a tube on its back attached to the airship. Once Ashe stands on top of it, it raises its head, causing the tube on his back to blend oddly with the highlight of the casing creating the illusion of Red's helmet design.
X7 is as much a part of Zero/ZX background as any other X-series game. X6's preview-sealing, X7's foreboding dreams, Orbital Elevators (Z1, Z3, X8, and XCM there), Omega's Rekkoha (X6 skill), and probably many more points that I'm not bothering to keep track of.
That and between all of Inti's games, ZXA is probably the most connected to X7, what with copy abilities becoming an increasingly important plot point. I don't see how one can deny all the allusions made between Advent and story of X7, X8 and XCM
they survived long enough that their ships still existed in Neo Arcadia.
The ships in question do not imply how long Repliforce survived. Repliforce has after all not been seen since X5. It's merely that their facilities and such were put to use by others without ever having the Repliforce symbol removed.
Underground Laboratory
ZERO 1
An old research facility used by Repliforce marines long ago to investigate oceanic geological features, for the purposes of oceanic development and early detection of volcano eruptions. The large caverns leading to the depths of the ocean came to double as a sort of natural fortress for their military base of operations. More recently, captured Reploids were organized and shipped to Neo Arcadia from here to be used as test subjects in experiments or for extra parts.
...wut?
Isn't it obvious? If we accept such a direct connection between the Illegal Hunters and Red Alert, we must also accept Model A as being Axl without a doubt.
-
Then what would that make the whole Model Albert thing?
-
Exactly what he said it was, nothing more, nothing less.
-
Then what would that make the whole Model Albert thing?
Just because he made the model doesn't mean it's his soul in there.
-
True, but the rest of the biotels are named after the reploid they're a model of.
-
True, but the rest of the biotels are named after the reploid they're a model of.
...So? Albert had a god complex, and it's certainly not his soul in that model. It's not hard to imagine that he would name one of his better creations after himself.
-
Not saying it means anything, as you said, Albert has a god complex which makes it easy to imagine he'd name anything after himself.
-
True, but the rest of the biotels are named after the reploid they're a model of.
You might recall The First Commander named those. Whereas Albert named Model A. Model A really really dislikes that name.
-
Well, seing how the name associates him with someone like Albert he has every right to hate it.
-
Model A is model Albert not just in vanity, but simply because he carries Alberts plans and data in it. thats just about it. Model A aside from that, is either Axl, or directly based on Axl from research into the copy ability.
-
Exactly. Model A is Albert's backup system. But it cannot be Albert's soul if Albert is still around and the two are defying each other.
Ciel's Biometals, named for their respective Reploids, also have the abilities of said Reploids. What combat abilities does Albert have? He shields himself with Model W fragments, that's about it. Only the copy ability links them.
Consider what happened to the Big Four (red host eyes with Biometals' will overridden), Grey's red eye flash in the opening, and the fact that four broken capsules are in the same room as him. I don't think it's any small stretch that Model A's will was considered irrelevant to Albert's backup plan in the same manner that the Big Four's wills are irrelevant to their hosts. From Albert's view, the only point to Model A's soul is its combat abilities, which incidentally allows Albert's backup to realistically obtain enemy DNA data without Model W's aid.
So who better than the only copy-capable Class-S Hunter of 22XX?
Then we have the obvious design inspiration. Dual pistols, emphasis on aiming over firepower (albeit in a different execution, similar to the copy ability itself), rapid-fire Giga Attack, matching helmet frame and side extensions, the fragment itself carrying an even greater resemblance, and a child-like voice to boot. Similar character development in that it starts out quick to run but grows more aggressive and trigger-happy given an appropriate role model to follow. Model A is very obviously designed after Axl, and given the nature of Biometal (8 other models all referencing past characters), you'd need a hell of a good reason for it to not be Axl in the story.
Oh yeah, and even though this is english-exclusive, ZXA was not the first time we saw the name "A-Trans", either. It's also the name given to Axl's copy ability in X8.
-
Isn't it obvious? If we accept such a direct connection between the Illegal Hunters and Red Alert, we must also accept Model A as being Axl without a doubt.
Ah...sarcasm.
-
Ah...sarcasm.
That wasn't sarcasm.
-
ah, morons.
-
That wasn't sarcasm.
Realized after I posted.
At the time it seemed like you were making fun of how a resemblance in a logo was a direct connection, and I vaguely recalled you arguing that we couldn't be sure A was Axl.
-
I think we already went through this two years ago or so. All the names connecting ZX to Zero are avoided in a deliberate manner (except Ragnarok, I think that's mentioned but my memories are foggy)
Model X,Z,H,P,L,F,W are never referred to explicitly contain the souls of X, Zero, Harpuia, Phantom, Leviathan, Fefnir and Weil. Sure they act like them, their Rock Ons look like them and have their attacks, they have the same voice actors, are described to have the same personality and the hints dropped about their origins match.
Same goes with the previous Guardian commander and Prairie.
Model A is just the most prominent case of this.
About the Raiders being Red Alert...well no, that would mean they somehow survived the several cataclysms between the sagas, and we already discussed the drawing on that gate several time.
-
So you're implying that they are not actually the big 4 and X/Zero?
-
ah, morons.
Ah, Nekomata being Nekomata.
At the time it seemed like you were making fun of how a resemblance in a logo was a direct connection, and I vaguely recalled you arguing that we couldn't be sure A was Axl.
I was arguing under the "if" condition of the Illegal Hunters being the same as Red Alert. If such a direct connection were to be established, we'd have grounds to without a doubt say Axl is Model A.
However, as it really is, the Illegal Hunters are simply a homage to Red Alert, Model A is a homage to Axl, with a high possibility of Model A actually being Axl, an undeniable connection but also not confirmable.
Model X,Z,H,P,L,F,W are never referred to explicitly contain the souls of X, Zero, Harpuia, Phantom, Leviathan, Fefnir and Weil.
Prairie said "soul" of "that man that created Ragnarok" and "soul" of "legendary heroes" that "saved the world hundreds of years ago." Japanese keyword: tamashi. However, it is true that she never quite uses their names.
So you're implying that they are not actually the big 4 and X/Zero?
He's just saying the games are purposely vague all the time.
-
thats nothing new though... The games have been ambiguous about things since the X series.
Also I say ti simply because of the direct showing of Red's face. Model A looks similar to and acts like, Axl, but theres no solid references other than that. The Raiders have red's face plastered all over their ship.
-
Prairie said "soul" of "that man that created Ragnarok" and "soul" of "legendary heroes" that "saved the world hundreds of years ago." Japanese keyword: tamashi. However, it is true that she never quite uses their names.
I kinda don´t remember the Guardians or X doing something for the whole saving world thing...
-
Is teaming up with Zero in the battle against Dr. Vile, for the humans' sake, not doing exactly that?
-
....Everyone can attack a weakened foe and then being killed in said boss´ explosion.... -_-
You know, the guardians were working for Copy X and I don´t think they were doing good things...
-
They were protecting humanity from the Resistance.
-
Saving the world is something different
-
they helped kill omega. >>
-
Without their help, Zero wouldn't have lived, and Weil would have won, so yeah.
-
From the start, Harpuia was opposed to Weil. Doubting him the whole way through. After the missile, he had the last straw, and attacked Omega.
Then later, Him alongside Fefnir and Leviathan, fought their way to Zero's location when Dark Elf was healing Omega, and Zero was still damaged, and attacked Omega, bringing him to a knee again. and they urged Zero to deal the finishing blow when Mother Elf's curse began to falter.
X, couldnt do much in terms of fighting, but he pretty much did intel. He informed Zero when Weil was no longer at area X-2, and protected the resistance Base from Weil's mind control, as well as obtaining the location of Weil's whereabouts.
That's a pretty valuable aid right there.
-
On topic, Red Alert seemed to be a ragtag band of bounty hunters loosely aligned by Red's organizational prowess and charisma, and not a global military behemoth like Repliforce once was. I imagine the organization died along with Red. Their logo was always a stylized monster "R" anyway.
But Red's fame could well live on in history or in legends. As a tough guy reploid who lived as he wished and did what he felt was right regardless of whether the government condoned or condemned his actions, unafraid and unapologetic, he is pretty much the ideal of the illegal Hunter. He can still be the Raiders' folk hero, relative patron saint, symbol, whatever without being an actual surviving remnant of the ancient Red Alert organization.
-
X7, X8, AND CM MISSION AREN'T CANON GARBLE GARBLE GARBLE
-
except they are canon.
-
He was making fun of the guy who was arguing about Model X and Z. >_>
also, that makes sense. Red alert was bound by Red's charisma, so it makes sense that he would live on in popular legend.