RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => ZX => Topic started by: ParasiteBirth on August 06, 2009, 08:00:14 AM
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Yeah.. I've been having these toughts recently.. or since a long time should I say, imagine all those cutscenes, all those stages, all those biometals in a wii game, I personaly think that the ZX Series would have brought more money to Capcom if they made it for wii, the games could have been even better and cooler that way. What do you think guys?
Maybe we could have online interactions like in MM9
-Downloadable Content
-Challenges
-Scores - For the arcade games etc.. -
- Online Battles - Would be epic win -
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The only way it would have been acceptable on the Wii is if it was Wiiware. Other than that, I would rather it remain on the DS. Though, I'm sure at some point, there may be a DS to Wii component to perform such, as the GBA and Gamecube did...
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If they spent proportionally more money on it you mean? I dunno, platformers don't seem to do well nowadays..
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I believe we established in another thread that ZX sells fine overseas, it's the Japanese market that was the problem.
Regardless, whether or not ANY MegaMan game would sell better on Wii is really speculation unless there are some MM9 numbers to compare. In terms of MegaMan in general, yes I believe it'd sell better on the Wii. MegaMan's as oldschool as Mario, the sooner Capcom stops denying that the better. But at the same time, I do believe they could be doing more with the franchise.
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I'd buy it. As for the mass market? It's a gamble.
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Do you think ZX series would sell more if it was on Wii?
NO.
Though, I'm sure at some point, there may be a DS to Wii component to perform such, as the GBA and Gamecube did...
ZX3 <---> DASH 3
Yes! They can! 8D
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NO.
Thank you for elaborating this ''NO'' and tell us why. :P
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"NO" because first of it will cost more for the production and doesn't change the sad truth that...
platformers don't seem to do well nowadays..
Yeah basically what like Mr. Align mentioned. :(
*insert my rage with gotta catch them all games* -_-
But I have hopes that 2D platformers will flourish again. Besides it's just a matter of execution. You can't really say that a game will be more good/sellable just because it's in a better console. ZX series is fine with the DS. It boils down on how they execute it properly. Creativity is the key.
imagine all those cutscenes
Meh, I personally want to get rid of those Anime-ish cutscenes & focus more with the quality of image cutscenes or just simply make a one solid anime-ish intro.
Though I recall that I actually thought similarly before about the future ZX title to be on the Wii. I was day dreaming during that time. That was on the topic where Model Wii pic is I believe. XD
*insert Livemtal Model Wii pic* anyone? 8D
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ZX1 was incredible. Bright, colorful, innovative, it was an all around mind blower megaman game. the music was incredible too, what with Green Grass Graduation being pretty much the theme of Megaman ZX.
then we get a bleak, drably colored, ZXA. with watred down forms, and less exploration. (most of it is more annoying that its worth) and a rip off price for E tanks. ZXA in comparison with ZX was not all that great. Visually anyway. the music was also, while good, not as good as the first game's. with in the wind and soul ablaze possible exceptions.
that's probably why it fell short.
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Now that you mention it you're right ZX did have better graphics and music. Heck I could never remember the boss music for ZXA because ZX's boss music was way better.
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I see it as - Inti: "We just made a new Rockman series with familiar gameplay but an original way of playing. But, you have to admit, more of the same might get too tiresome. So, let's switch things up abit!" *after release - sales are watched* "... Well. [tornado fang]. That wasn't a good idea. Maybe we should stick to the "tired-and-true" method we used for the Zero series, and Inafune did for the other series.."
If I remember, wasn't Advent released before Rockman 9? :\
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If I remember, wasn't Advent released before Rockman 9? :\
Yeah Advent was realesed in November of 2007 in the US.
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with Model a as that minigame meant to see how players reacted to an 8 bit game.
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Yeah Advent was realesed in November of 2007 in the US.
Ouch ouch ouch! >3< X( 2 years of no new ZX game. ;O;
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It's a nice thought, to have zx on the wii, but to be honest, I don't see it happening.
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with Model a as that minigame meant to see how players reacted to an 8 bit game.
I love the fact that I wrote a wall of text about it in another thread~ ^^ </wii>
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then we get a bleak, drably colored, ZXA. with watred down forms, and less exploration. (most of it is more annoying that its worth) and a rip off price for E tanks. ZXA in comparison with ZX was not all that great. Visually anyway. the music was also, while good, not as good as the first game's. with in the wind and soul ablaze possible exceptions.
Complete and utterly disagreed, Flame. ZXA > ZX in all respects.
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ZX beats ZXA in terms of useful transformations. Half the ones in Advent are completely pointless.
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ZX beats ZXA in terms of useful transformations. Half the ones in Advent are completely pointless.
Except ZX has exactly the same transformation as ZXA, only ZXA has many more added to that.
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Who cares if they added more when all they do is get in the way when you're trying to scroll to a form that's actually useful? Besides, almost all the models from ZX got nerfed in the transition, so they're not really the same anyway. OIS was kinda ridiculous, but at least it gave you a reason to use something other than Zx against bosses. Now there's pretty much no reason to use anything but Zx at any time aside from when stage puzzles demand it.
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I think ZX is SUPPOSED to be the "ultimate power form" on the player's end (storywise, anyway), I just wish they'd given it more varied enhancements instead of just offering one new attack and nerfing the rest of the game's arsenal. The form is basically Z1 Buster/Saber Zero with a superior roll but otherwise crappier saber, no dash roll, damage barrier mechanics tweaked to allow boss raping, and the buster shot tweaked to allow stage-enemy raping.
Complete and utterly disagreed, Flame. ZXA > ZX in all respects.
One cannot deny that ZX > ZXA in arsenal (save for Vent's Rising Fang, anyway). Otherwise, it's a matter of opinion.
For the most part, I found ZXA to have an all-around superior presentation and variety (not to mention LOCALIZATION, you lazy bastards who silenced the first ZX), but it may not have been the best sequel. Maybe they thought they were doing something clever with the whole lack-of-numbered-game thing, but I think reducing Vent and Aile to NPCs with Model ZX as an A-Trans was uncalled for. They could have at least been unlockables.
And of course, there is no "super form" to take the place of Models X and OX. Evidently unused life gauges suggest they had planned otherwise; they should have stuck to finishing that. Would have went a lot further than GEM BUSTING, that's for sure.
There are of course, numerous improvements that one shouldn't ignore. Perhaps most appreciated is the ability to rematch non-animaloid bosses in the minigame menu (although earning that right through Survival Road is a hell of a time).
Side-quests were a mixed bag. The organization of the quests themselves was improved, but the one-way Trans Servers made completing a lot of them rather tedious. Chip distribution is also horrid as half the game's library isn't even available until after you're on a Clear file. In that manner the game demonstrates as much as the first ZX why New Game Plus shouldn't have been axed.
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One for the topic:
I think whenever a game sells badly it's because of bad marketing.
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When does MegaMan NOT have bad marketing?
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Odd think is, I don't remember Advent getting much marketing overseas besides the occasional magazine ad, and yet it did far better than it did in Japan, where it probably got far more marketing.
DAMN YOU KIDS AND YOUR POKEMON AND YU-GI-OH (and other series that inspire collection crap) O:<
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I was sure Rockman would have been what kids would buy the most in japan... or at least.. one of the best sellers O^O
Megaman card games weren't as great as Yu Gi Oh.. Oh Wait! O:<
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Besides of that, I would prefer to play DS games on my Wii, instead to play them under such small screens. So...Yeah I think the ZX Series would be better sold on the Wii.
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I just wish there was some sort of DS-Wii link cable, so you could literally play your DS games on your Wii.
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I just wish there was some sort of DS-Wii link cable, so you could literally play your DS games on your Wii.
Sucks nintendo din't do anything like that FTW = For The Wii owob
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I just wish there was some sort of DS-Wii link cable, so you could literally play your DS games on your Wii.
Or just something like they did with the GBA player for the GC, but for DS games on the Wii.
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ZXA > ZX in all respects.
what? except that the background designers didn't care/spend as much time on it >.>
The only BG's that were impressive were the intro of Submarine Volcano and Ouroboros.
Whereas ZX had much more lively designed areas, making the game truly alive, something I can't say of ZXA.
Oh and the stagedesign overal was alot less impressive (but that could just be me being bugged by them placing rooms inbetween each segment of a stage for a warp point. >.>)
Having said that, I was really bummed out by the lack of connection between the stages, it's logical that you can't just walk to cinq ville...but damn, the level of interconnecting stages in ZXA just makes me cry, especially after ZX.
-Elpis
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I guess I'm a little weird in that actually LIKE the lack of interconnecting stages. Needing to transport between areas increases the feeling of scope. Not that connecting levels don't have their own appeal, but ZXA had a nice level of balance between the two.
Then again, ZXA's map had its own drawbacks. The one-way Trans Server mechanic made it rather tedious to get around at times. And really, I think the game was overusing the whole "revisit stages for extra crap and sidequests" thing. There were a several stages containing obstacles only passable after beating that same stage's boss and backtracking (Chronoforce, Rospark, and Atlas come to mind), and that kind of design is utterly senseless.
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ZX is more intact than ZXA. Specially in gameplay department. The way I see it the Zx, X & Four Guardian gameplay should be exclusive to ZX then Model A & Trans-On Falseroid forms to ZXA. But what happen is they still shove Helios,Atlas,Thetis,Siarnaq/HFLP gameplay & Zx in Advent and in my opinion that's what make ZXA's gameplay inferior or less distinct. Thus we didn't have a Wall kicking hedgeshock & Shisaroids. An even more competent Diaburn or a more combat capable Bifrost & Rospark. Rospark had potentials. Or a better Falseroid forms overall. I like the idea of Trans-On, but the execution in ZXA went poor because of too much forms.
Well Model A is weak main livemetal to begin with. It's a slight variation of X with a Copy System of different approach and he just poop out of nowhere...>.>
Quality > Quantity.
So I hope in ZX3 there should only be a maximum of 8 forms. That counts Hu form.
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Thus we didn't have a Wall kicking hedgeshock & Shisaroids. An even more competent Diaburn or a more combat capable Bifrost & Rospark. Rospark had potentials. Or a better Falseroid forms overall. I like the idea of Trans-On, but the execution in ZXA went poor because of too much forms.
I think they were also dumbing down the arsenal overall, either because of how broken ZX1's OIS was, or because of how broken Time Bomb is.
But yeah, I'd have liked a wall-kicking Hedgeshock and Shisaroids myself, in a game that depends on it so heavily, having no way to either climb or boost jumping height at all is simply crippling. Rospark is a wire-form, and he's good at that, so I can live with it. Bifrost was a disaster simply due to physics. You can't be that damn huge/slow and still put up with contact damage. Defensively he should have been like the X8 Ride Armor: immune to half the [parasitic bomb] the enemies throw at you.
I think ZXA's level design went a lot worse than its forms, though. As I've said earlier, I think having to backtrack with abilities from the same stage's boss is going too over the top (it was stupid when X5 did it, and that was ONCE, and it's every bit as stupid with repeated occurrences now). You shouldn't be having to remember indestructible block locations from your second stage after intro when the boss who gives you the power to break them is locked into the last three (out of 13), either. If you could challenge the stages in any order it'd be different. If you can't, that means earlier abilities should be useful in later stages, not the other way around.
So I hope in ZX3 there should only be a maximum of 8 forms. That counts Hu form.
Completly ignoring Model A, that means we either lose something from ZX or there's nothing new.
I don't think we need to be so drastic in limiting forms if they're building on what's already there (ie: Big Four in ZXA is no excuse for poor Pseudoroid forms). I'd just appreciate them not shafting Vent and Aile again.
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ZX was MUCH better than ZXA. ZX was more alive than it, the music was better too. ZXA has only a few notable tracks, mostly soul ablaze, Grey/Ashe's intro stages, the Quarry, flying Area A, and Vent/Aile's theme. (Determined Eyes, was it?)
while almost ALL of ZX1's soundtrack was much better made. and the detail is poor in ZXA. the backgrounds and stages themselves feel bland in terms of aesthetic appeal. the stage design was interesting, but the look wasnt.
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I think it's time Capcom brings the X Series back XD
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I think it's time Capcom brings the X Series back XD
The X series should die. Despite the earlier games being dear to me, most of the later ones are for the most part forgettable.
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The X series should die. Despite the earlier games being dear to me, most of the later ones are for the most part forgettable.
B( B( B( B(
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Hey, he's not the one making threads about how much he doesn't like X games.
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ONE game. ONE game out of all 11 games. not the whole damn series.
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B( B( B( B(
Sad to say, but he's right though. If they use a story anymore it's gonna be quite difficult to come up with a scenario. X9 if it happens needs to be a gameplay reboot with little to no plot if they want full freedom to do something big.
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"Stand back X! I'll take care of this!!"
*jump in and defeat the bad guy, sacrificing their life in the process*
"Ugh! X, it's up to you now...!" *boom*
*the real bad guy shows up*
"SHINING FINGER!!!"
"GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAH I CANT BELIEVE I LOST!!!"
*kasplooosh!!*
*wait for next sequel* >U<
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Sad to say, but he's right though. If they use a story anymore it's gonna be quite difficult to come up with a scenario. X9 if it happens needs to be a gameplay reboot with little to no plot if they want full freedom to do something big.
or just FINALLY make everything clear once and for all. it'd be so hard, but it'd be so cool. and besides, it's Inafune's fault!!!! XD
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The X series should die. Despite the earlier games being dear to me, most of the later ones are for the most part forgettable.
*gives Fxeni ZEE UPPERCUT!!*
If X6 is forgettable it's because you suck. If Xtreme2 is forgettable it's because you're lazy (*smack PB* PLAY IT!). If X8 is forgettable it's because the art style blows, that's easily rectified. If MHX is forgettable it's because you don't own a PSP, and I sympathize.
X7 was......not the best. If Capcom wants to make a 3D X, they need to commit to it. So many attacks were broken by the 2D/3D blend, the auto-lock wrecked 2D while Zero enjoyed paper-thin attacks in 3D.
XCM, well, it's a linear RPG, what do you expect? That said, I still come back to it pretty often. More so than I do X3.
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I love Command Mission. Its only Con is that after you complete the game, there is nothing much to do except massacre enemies in order to level up every billion or so battles. By then, Redips is too easy. And the Tails clan doesnt regenerate and stay there like Redips does, so theres nothing left that can give a decent good time. Except maybe Mettaur Gigant. But the [tornado fang]er almost always runs away.
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Anything past X4 doesn't interest me all that much. X5 is of questionable quality in plenty of areas. X6 has horrible level design in several places; requiring a part to advance isn't good in any sense. If they actually did it right, you should be able to get through the damn game without needing anything whatsoever. The enemy placements aren't all that good in many places, either. X7 had it's moments, but the wall jumps felt really weird, and unlocking X was awkward. X8's level design could have been better as well. It was better than some of the other installments in the series, but it doesn't touch anything in X1-X4. MHX was awesome, but that's because it was based off of X1. XCM... well, I can't really get back to it, myself. I finished it once and I can't bring myself to restart it. Xtreme 2 was alright for a GBC game, and the parts were awesome. That said, considering it's a GBC game, the controls felt a little off from time to time, but that's more of a limitation of the system itself.
Not to say the earlier X games are perfect (I've been known to point out X3's... issues), but I find they're more enjoyable overall.
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X6 has horrible level design in several places; requiring a part to advance isn't good in any sense. If they actually did it right, you should be able to get through the damn game without needing anything whatsoever.
(http://home.comcast.net/~Anguirus/objection.gif)
It's called alternate paths. If you don't have what you need to clear them, it's your own fault for entering them in the first place. If you want to take a gamble with being ill-equipped, fine, but then you face the consequences.
The only "impass" that is not an alternate is Gate's Lab, which is the game's final stretch. And even that is a lot easier to clear than most players believe; I can't tell you how many fans to this day still think that an air-dash is necessary. By this point there is no excuse to not be properly equipped.
Generally, X6 is to the X-series what Lost Levels is to Mario. Low production value, highly challenging level design. Approachable, it ain't, but it's a great service for the hardcore fans. The game's level design is severely underrated by people who simply aren't up to the task of properly exploring it. There are tons of power-ups scattered, and rather than the brainless "use weapon x to destroy otherwise indestructible block y", a great deal of them require some good thought to reach, despite never once requiring a boss weapon. That is damn good level design that the series otherwise doesn't see, and it's a great and satisfying challenge to nab it all (without beating any bosses). The same can be said for the "impass" areas. You have to use your head, and pull out all the tricks for manipulating the engine that you know, and then you can find quite a few solutions to any given obstacle, and go with the one that suits you.
However, the Nightmare system blows, and most players tend to focus on that rather than the core design, which is outstanding.
The enemy placements aren't all that good in many places, either.
Enemy mobs are part of what makes X6 unique, and a more thrilling rush than any other MegaMan game out there.
unlocking X was awkward.
Everybody neglects to mention the fact that that's first-playthrough-only, as X is both unavoidable and carries over into New Game Plus. His Charge Shot is insanely powerful and so you have to tackle five stages without it. Whoopedy-doo. The amount of ass he can kick easily justifies such a small price. I'm more concerned with his constant whining.
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ZXA > ZX in all respects.
I don't have a Magical Talking Whatever and I don't have an Uppercut, and you may know your official canon, but Megaman ZX was far better than anything ZXA ever threw at us.
Granted, neither has any real replay value as far as the main game goes (Omega's fun to challenge, and it's worth going through 2 times for a Model X run, only in ZX), but ZX did everything better. Music, stage design, story, everything.
ZXA's Weapon Bar, "vague answers" story, gimmicked boss abilities, useless sidequest rewards, mediocre music and graphics, and general lack of IP enhancement and protection in the form of well thought-out cast and asset management (i.e. changing the 4 Guardians' original designs completely...), made ZXA one of the worst Megaman games Capcom ever put out, right there with X6 (which also destroyed the rightful conclusion to the X series, X5).
Now, the core design of X6 is not okay. The camera shows even less of what you need to see than X4 and X5 did, there's the whole Zero's diving attack ordeal, the Z-Saber completely obliterates the final boss, you have to exit stages to switch inane Parts, and did you SEE Blaze Heatnix's stage?! Heck, X's use of the Z-Saber is dismal, at best. He should have either had more power in that one shot, or had Zero's 3-stage attack. The Blade and Shadow armors are fan-level creations.
And Model X is not overpowered. Model X has range, that's it. Both X and ZX have the same very powerful spiral charged shot ala X2, it's just a matter of range. There are some players who make better use of the charged Saber Slam than veterans/Model X users manage that first, comparatively weaker charged buster. In fact, depending on your playstyle, you get more damage out of having ZX's 2 weapons as compared to X's 1 weapon.
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what? except that the background designers didn't care/spend as much time on it >.>
The only BG's that were impressive were the intro of Submarine Volcano and Ouroboros.
What's this talk of the backgrounds being of lesser quality? As a same series same system sequel, the two are graphically identical and interchangable. This is especially true for ZX and Advent, what with a good portion of the former's stages being revisited in altered form the latter. For all the newer stages, I really see no difference in their quality. But if you insist, I must remind you that it is Advent that put much more work in character sprites, balancing it out.
On other points on Advent vs ZX, I feel that Advent is much more actively involving in terms of plot and player involvement. ZX throws you directionless into a world under the selling point of exploration. But whilst doing this, it seems strangely stuck in such antiquated notions like a mission select, intermission stage and final stages after a select amount of Falseroids defeated. Adding insult to injury is the unhelpful map system and backwards transerver-mission system. It's quite bad when the game penalizes you in the main plot with backtracking just because you approached the area from the wrong side. This is especially true in the find Giro and Guardian license missions. Also let's not forget that the plot mostly warrants you to get anywhere just to eliminate a boss for its power up item, losing most of the interest in a stage until you actually get there and they finally explain what they're all about.
ZXA on the others steers you in the right way by engaging you in the ever deepening plot whilst still leaving a sense of exploration, virtually eliminates the backwards mission select, throws in non-Falseroids at random and improves on its map system all at the same time. The only cases of backtracking are outside of the main flow of the game. (Items/Side Quests).
In the matter of arsenal, I much prefer ZXA's balance over ZX's, even though it required toning down the forms. ZX was imbalanced to the point that one form would have all sorts of overkill attacks whereas another had none. Model HX being a big offender in terms of unneeded carnage. Atleast in Advent only Time Bomb is a really big offender that you don't even have to employ if you feel it's a cheap way out. And for those times it is employed, ZXA allows for a lot of tactical variety in taking bosses down, beyond just using Model ZX or any other strong attacker. The fact that you can take down Queenbee in record time with a combination of Time Bomb and Rospark's grounded form speaks for itself.
Finally, speaking of form variety and use, Advent wins by its weapons energy system. ZX tied far too much to weapons energy with no real way to recover it during times when you really needed. The self recovering shared energy bar allowed for a much nicer time battling than just having to carefully manage overdrive activation down to the second and then getting stuck fighting a boss with no real way to attack as anything but ZX. ZX's method wouldn't be so bad if they gave you full energy bars from the get go, but they had to go with this unfortunate need for e-crystal gathering or quirky weak point dodging.
and general lack of IP enhancement and protection in the form of well thought-out cast and asset management (
Set up game is a set up game? Advent is only a stepping stone to the third title leaving many elements of ZX are ignored and many of the elements of ZXA are introduced solely for the future to delve into. It is Advent and not 2 for a reason. It was never meant to be conclusive a title as ZX. Much like comparing the first ZERO with the second. Advent simply chose to extend the world in a much larger manner, beyond what it could contain as one title.
useless sidequest rewards
I'm trying to remember a recent Rockman game with worthwhile sidequests, nothing comes to mind. At least Advent was nice with its occasional cameos.
(i.e. changing the 4 Guardians' original designs completely...),
[objection!]
You're frikken nittpicking. Who cares about the designs being changed? Besides, Rock On designs were always different. Remember Model Z? It's the Double Rock On forms that more closely resemble the original. They were being consistent and diverse in giving the four those designs.
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Everybody neglects to mention the fact that that's first-playthrough-only, as X is both unavoidable and carries over into New Game Plus. His Charge Shot is insanely powerful and so you have to tackle five stages without it. Whoopedy-doo. The amount of ass he can kick easily justifies such a small price. I'm more concerned with his constant whining.
I don't neglect it. I still find it unacceptable that the main character in his own series has to be unlocked, or gained through save data. It's bullshit. To me, it'd be like unlocking Sonic in a Sonic the Hedgehog game, Samus in a Metroid game, and so on. Then once you get him, the game becomes painfully easy (or so I hear) due to how powerful he is. Sorry, but PB still finds it to be unacceptable to this day, doesn't like it and therefore it's a dust collector.
And for [tornado fang] sake Capcon, you've got enough characters to warrant a 2 Player Co-OP mode, at the very least. [tornado fang].
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I'm trying to remember a recent Rockman game with worthwhile sidequests, nothing comes to mind. At least Advent was nice with its occasional cameos.
Hey, Advent had that one mission which got you the erase chip. That chip's pretty awesome.
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What's this talk of the backgrounds being of lesser quality? As a same series same system sequel, the two are graphically identical and interchangable. This is especially true for ZX and Advent, what with a good portion of the former's stages being revisited in altered form the latter. For all the newer stages, I really see no difference in their quality. But if you insist, I must remind you that it is Advent that put much more work in character sprites, balancing it out.
On other points on Advent vs ZX, I feel that Advent is much more actively involving in terms of plot and player involvement. ZX throws you directionless into a world under the selling point of exploration. But whilst doing this, it seems strangely stuck in such antiquated notions like a mission select, intermission stage and final stages after a select amount of Falseroids defeated. Adding insult to injury is the unhelpful map system and backwards transerver-mission system. It's quite bad when the game penalizes you in the main plot with backtracking just because you approached the area from the wrong side. This is especially true in the find Giro and Guardian license missions. Also let's not forget that the plot mostly warrants you to get anywhere just to eliminate a boss for its power up item, losing most of the interest in a stage until you actually get there and they finally explain what they're all about.
ZXA on the others steers you in the right way by engaging you in the ever deepening plot whilst still leaving a sense of exploration, virtually eliminates the backwards mission select, throws in non-Falseroids at random and improves on its map system all at the same time. The only cases of backtracking are outside of the main flow of the game. (Items/Side Quests).
In the matter of arsenal, I much prefer ZXA's balance over ZX's, even though it required toning down the forms. ZX was imbalanced to the point that one form would have all sorts of overkill attacks whereas another had none. Model HX being a big offender in terms of unneeded carnage. Atleast in Advent only Time Bomb is a really big offender that you don't even have to employ if you feel it's a cheap way out. And for those times it is employed, ZXA allows for a lot of tactical variety in taking bosses down, beyond just using Model ZX or any other strong attacker. The fact that you can take down Queenbee in record time with a combination of Time Bomb and Rospark's grounded form speaks for itself.
Finally, speaking of form variety and use, Advent wins by its weapons energy system. ZX tied far too much to weapons energy with no real way to recover it during times when you really needed. The self recovering shared energy bar allowed for a much nicer time battling than just having to carefully manage overdrive activation down to the second and then getting stuck fighting a boss with no real way to attack as anything but ZX. ZX's method wouldn't be so bad if they gave you full energy bars from the get go, but they had to go with this unfortunate need for e-crystal gathering or quirky weak point dodging.
And you TOTALLY missed the point stated and went off on a tangent. no one said anything about quality, or gameplay. what was said was that the Backgrounds and overall stages were bland and unappealing in terms of visual appearance, whereas ZX1 was much more vibrant and very inviting.
what? except that the background designers didn't care/spend as much time on it >.>
The only BG's that were impressive were the intro of Submarine Volcano and Ouroboros.
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Flame, reread the previous page. We were talking about overal gameplay balance and forms, stage design, music, everything. I did say "all respects". I simply used the graphical quote of the discussion as a bridge toward the other points without needing excessive quoting throughout the post in order to catch up with a week's absence. It was adressed at everyone's prior points that attempted to deprave ZXA. And then you go and quote a whole post? What were you thinking?
Besides, on the one part I did quote, again I reitterate that ZX and ZXA share largely the same backgrounds due to Cinq Ville revisited. The new stages such as the train, Icy Floes, Tower of Verdure, Oil Fields, Legions, Ouroborous, etc. all impressed me as much as the first ZX did, the difference is almost neglible. And really, if all you have that favours ZX over ZXA is background graphics, than that is shallow, the recent Rockman9 should prove that point alone.
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Just the regenerating weapon bar makes Advent miles more fun than ZX
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Model A itself was pretty eh. The lock-on thing is interesting, and sometimes useful (like against Albert...), but the regular buster seems pretty uninspired, reflect or not - we already have like 3 charge shooters.
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Well, charge shooting is a standard MegaMan mechanic. Not the first game to have 3 charge-shooters either (remember MM8's power-ups?).
And for [tornado fang] sake Capcon, you've got enough characters to warrant a 2 Player Co-OP mode, at the very least. [tornado fang].
So incredibly true. I used to pass the controller to a buddy when I switched characters in X3, that was about as close to the illusion of 2-player as I could get.
ZX did everything better.
I wouldn't say EVERYTHING. Music was pretty even (although I think ZX had the generally better stage music, ZXA had some kickass boss tunes). And I have to give the upper hand to ZXA's single regenerating Biometal Energy. It allows you to use attacks more freely, and when EVERY charge attack outside of your default form consumes it, that's something you need.
right there with X6 (which also destroyed the rightful conclusion to the X series, X5).
I swear to God I will invent a Ranbu-Fish to smack the next person who describes X5 as the "rightful conclusion". That attitude comes from an interview quote taken grossly out of context. Whatever the surprise of X6 during Z1's development, Z1 at time of release syncs with it perfectly fine and in fact carries quite a few inconsistencies with X5 alone (no legs and one arm versus two legs and no arms; Zero being completely weaponless in Z1; not to mention being sealed, behind a force field, and a door with his name on it, rather than left to die in a junk heap somewhere as in X5).
Furthermore, X5 was among the most sucktacular ways to end the series that one could imagine. Zero dies in a BOSS EXPLOSION, something he survived a dozen times over, without any regard whatsoever as to how his proximity to said explosion compares to X, who gets a sore arm.
None of this is touching the fact that X5 is generally a crappy game regardless. It has the worst standard boss music of the series (special bosses are cool, though), among the most unoriginal weapon arsenals, leaves several power-ups inaccessible as Zero, features the most senseless ranking system ever conceived (which incidentally contradicts X's and Zero's differing ranks, as by the avoid-enemies logic X should be ranked higher), and ties power-ups together with said ranking system and with each other in illogical ways that diminish the full effectiveness of a character and completely disallow numerous combinations. If it wasn't for the X-versus-Zero fight, the Wily hype, and the fact that Zero has kickass theme music, the game would be garbage. And even on that note, Zero has the stupidest boss AI known to man. Nightmare Zero is an infinitely superior matchup, which leaves X5's main appeal being kicking UA X around as Zero.
The camera shows even less of what you need to see than X4 and X5 did
Get equipped with not sucking.the Z-Saber completely obliterates the final boss
Your point is what? The final boss died three weeks ago, he's SUPPOSED to be screwed. The rest of the game wasn't challenging enough for you?and did you SEE Blaze Heatnix's stage?!
Again, try not sucking.Heck, X's use of the Z-Saber is dismal, at best.
It's not his primary weapon, live with it. Besides that, get equipped with Shadow Armor.
And Model X is not overpowered
Model X is overpowered in the sense of its ease of use. True, 11 damage to a boss is nothing compared to, say, ZX's 18, but that requires close range, on the ground, with the boss holding still long enough to get in 4 hits without smacking you. You can dumb it down to 12 with twin charged attacks, but that requires the independent use of both weapon buttons for charging, which isn't the most natural way to attack depending on one's preferred control setup. Why bother when you can point and shoot so easily? ZX has higher damage, but it is, like HX, situational. Takes careful aiming and maneuvering. With Model X, you just shoot from a safe position, ground or air, and do crippling damage to the enemy. And unlike OX you can do it without losing your charge from taking hits. Model X isn't the strongest, but it is the most straightforward, and the amount of power it affords so easily is what makes it so deadly. It's like playing Marth in Smash Bros.
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If X6 is forgettable it's because you suck. If Xtreme2 is forgettable it's because you're lazy (*smack PB* PLAY IT!).
100% agreed, you opened my eyes when it comes to these two titles, and for it, I am truly grateful.
*hugs X2 Soul Eraser cartridge*
@Zan:
Zan you misread what I said, I said that they didn't spend as much time, not that they are of less quality, they are just less original and less vexing, if you look at ZX, nearly every area has a memorable(MOVING) background, and there is alot more diversity, making ZX feel WAY more lively than ZXA of wich the BG design felt bleak -compared to ZX, with the exception of Ouroboros and Submarine Volcano, wich are epic.
ZXA has more character sprites, but it sucks in stage and BG design...hmm, yeah I think I'll stay with ZX.
Antiquated? perhaps, but I do so like the feel it has, I prefer it vastly to ZXA's lack of choosing your own path.
Intermission stages and Final Stages ARE A GOOD THING, and besides, ZXA has final stages too >.> it's already so locked in it's path that an intermission would be strange.
Real men don't use maps, especially not when it comes to megaman, WHO THE F*CK USES A MAP IN MM GAMES!?
thats worse than using cyberelfves, imo. you are completely right that the map sucks balls, but I've never used maps, not in ZX and not in ZXA, but ZXA's is definately better designed, no question.
(note that this is not meant to be offensive to anyone, it's just how I REALLY feel.)
You're probably right in the plot/player develpment thing, but keep in mind that the answer to the questions of ZX would not have been so statisfying without knowing so little in ZX. I also can't deny that the plotrelevance of missions is alot more varied in ZXA, however, in ZX I thought getting the 6 passwords to get to Model V and destroy it was more than enough reason/justification.
Obviously, you care ALOT more about plot than I do, don't get me wrong, I love the storylines and everything, but at the end of the day I'm more tied to gameplay. ZX had 5 non-falseroid battles, even if they weren't "random" wich, btw only two of the 5 of ZXA are.
True, due to the larger arsenal you can be tactical on a higher level in ZXA and this is something I DO appreciate about ZXA, on the other hand, I SO LOVE raping bosses, and OIS does it better than ANYTHING (screw metal blade) I've seen so far.
ZXA = tactics, ZX = speed/pwn, both win imo.
quirky? QUIRKY!? TACTICAL FINISH SYSTEM! and besides, everybody that uses EC to restore levels of a LM gauge is a total loser. while you are right in that the shared/auto-recov LME gauge is more userfriendly, it also makes the LME capsules much more useless, whereas ZX had the feeling of an X or Classic Rockman game, filling gauges and stuff.
It's what gives ZX a strategic approach, how much LME do I need for a LM? when and where do I need X charge attack? when and where do I need said amount of LME? can I get it from drops or do I need to nab a placed capsule? How much can I attack boss X on weakspot to get enough LME for scene X? ofcourse, those are things you discover when speedrunning.
(wich I realize isn't for everyone, and thus some of the strategy of ZX will be lost on some people.) I would have been milder on ZXA if forms actually enabled shortcuts, like FX does in Area I...but they don't, they just open alternate paths...
And while ZX's arsenal may be less wide than ZXA's, ZX's forms have far less drawbacks, they all have a base set of abilities, and a set of model unique abilities, whereas most forms in ZXA don't even have all the BASE abilities, try finding a good use for Bifrost >.> having to change between every room and moving at that speed make boring gameplay, now THAT is quirky.
I'm not saying ZX did everything better, but ZXA didn't do it either. both have flaws, imo ZXA has more, mainly due to it feeling less alive than ZX. did I mention ZX is my fav game? because it is.
-Elpis
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(http://home.comcast.net/~Anguirus/objection.gif)
It's called alternate paths. If you don't have what you need to clear them, it's your own fault for entering them in the first place. If you want to take a gamble with being ill-equipped, fine, but then you face the consequences.
The only "impass" that is not an alternate is Gate's Lab, which is the game's final stretch. And even that is a lot easier to clear than most players believe; I can't tell you how many fans to this day still think that an air-dash is necessary. By this point there is no excuse to not be properly equipped.
Generally, X6 is to the X-series what Lost Levels is to Mario. Low production value, highly challenging level design. Approachable, it ain't, but it's a great service for the hardcore fans. The game's level design is severely underrated by people who simply aren't up to the task of properly exploring it. There are tons of power-ups scattered, and rather than the brainless "use weapon x to destroy otherwise indestructible block y", a great deal of them require some good thought to reach, despite never once requiring a boss weapon. That is damn good level design that the series otherwise doesn't see, and it's a great and satisfying challenge to nab it all (without beating any bosses). The same can be said for the "impass" areas. You have to use your head, and pull out all the tricks for manipulating the engine that you know, and then you can find quite a few solutions to any given obstacle, and go with the one that suits you.
So not being able to get by as unarmoured X without any powerups whatsoever is good stage design to you? Also, I bring up the randomly generated museum stage that can very easily screw you over if you happen to go there first. That's not the only place either. It's not good level design when you need an optional upgrade to advance normally, point final. I'm all for difficulty, as you should clearly know by now, but there's a difference between being challenging and not being able to advance without a freaking optional upgrade. I'm repeating myself, yes, but apparently that's needed.
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So not being able to get by as unarmoured X without any powerups whatsoever is good stage design to you?
YES. Because unarmored X in X6 is not the standard, Falcon Armor is. Unarmored X is the "extra challenge at your own risk" mode. You START with Falcon Armor, there is no reason to be using anything less maneuverable and powerful than that (albeit Blade barely qualifies as stronger than Falcon).
It's not good level design when you need an optional upgrade to advance normally, point final.
Falcon Armor is default, you do not forego it unless you're damn sure of what you're doing. It's not like X5 where your player choice can cost you your starting enhancements. Show me one Museum area that Falcon cannot clear (Nightmare effects irrelevant, since by your argument you're starting the game on it).
100% agreed, you opened my eyes when it comes to these two titles, and for it, I am truly grateful.
*hugs X2 Soul Eraser cartridge*
Oh, how I wish the contacts on my GBC cart hadn't crapped out on me...
*hugs Lameboy and VBA GX*
ZXA has more character sprites, but it sucks in stage and BG design...hmm, yeah I think I'll stay with ZX.
I tend to look more at character detail than stage detail myself. Even so, I kinda like the Double Rock On designs. HX could stand to use H's color palette, though.
Intermission stages and Final Stages ARE A GOOD THING, and besides, ZXA has final stages too >.> it's already so locked in it's path that an intermission would be strange.
Agreed there. Although "Intermission" is a bit of a loose term. One could easily count Atlas, Siarnaq, and Vent/Aile stages in that category as there are no possible alternatives when they're available.
Real men don't use maps, especially not when it comes to megaman
Maps are nice, but I navigated ZX in Japanese, so yeah, it's not that bad. That being said, missions ought to have a definitive starting point. And the need to manually start and end at the Trans Server was irritating at times.
True, due to the larger arsenal you can be tactical on a higher level in ZXA and this is something I DO appreciate about ZXA, on the other hand, I SO LOVE raping bosses, and OIS does it better than ANYTHING (screw metal blade) I've seen so far.
ZXA = tactics, ZX = speed/pwn, both win imo.
Agreed, however OIS is a little TOO simplistic. Barring Model OX, anyways. Now that's some good boss pwning, wiping out half a boss's life bar with X2 homage (or 2/3 if you go the Double Charge/Triple Slash route). Not to mention, in the matter of style, good old Earth Crush/Messenko/Rekkoha.
And of course, even without OIS, Model OX enjoyes ORIGINAL ZERO-SERIES CHARGED SABER STRENGTH. Why the hell they nerfed it to 1-1/2 a normal saber slash in ZX is beyond me.
while you are right in that the shared/auto-recov LME gauge is more userfriendly, it also makes the LME capsules much more useless, whereas ZX had the feeling of an X or Classic Rockman game, filling gauges and stuff.
As I said earlier I feel that the ZX series' mechanics justify the shared/regenerating gauge. In an X/Classic game, a gauge refers to a single special attack, with at most one charged variant, and ever since the PS1 your default weapon is available at the same time. In ZX it's all charge attacks and OIS, which is at least three different maneuvers, per form. It really discourages the use of anything but standard uncharged moves, barring of course X, ZX, and OX.
I'm not saying ZX did everything better, but ZXA didn't do it either. both have flaws, imo ZXA has more, mainly due to it feeling less alive than ZX. did I mention ZX is my fav game? because it is.
I mostly agree with that assessment, however ZXA did offer an infinitely better localization, which makes it the more lively game on this coast. If I lived in Japan it would be ZX, no question.
In short, I feel ZXA offered the better map, better mission layout, better minigames (rematchable PnP FTW), better BME management, and better localization. Plus an armed Hu/Re, which was awesome. ZX offered the better MegaMan abilities, better hidden forms, better hidden bosses (ZXA...didn't really have any unless you count ancient Albert; ZX had 9), better stage selection (sorry Zan, I prefer the old-style freedom), better consistency in keeping forms (NO REASON for force switches for activating teleport points), and better Trans Server connections (the one-way crap has gotta go). Since arsenal is 9/10 of a MegaMan game for me, that puts ZX at a heavy advantage.
I can buy the whole "ZXA as a setup and not a true sequel" shpiel if we actually did get a true ZX sequel. Unfortunately that looks to not be so. So as far as "ZX sequels" go, ZXA is all we have. And it's a great game, but not a great ZX sequel.
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It's not good level design when you need an optional upgrade to advance normally, point final.
You mean they pulled a "Magnet Beam" again after all those years?
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Yes and no. It IS possible to get stuck in Gate's Lab if you're not properly equipped. However, unlike MM1, it's not any one single item that is required. Every "impossible" obstacle has numerous solutions. Most are easier than they appear at first glance, too. Zero, Blade, and obviously Shadow can all get past the infamous spike shaft without any additional weapons or equipment, and that's pretty much the toughest such obstacle the game throws at you. And unlike MM1, it's at the beginning of the stage, so you don't waste time and effort clearing previous obstacles and enemies.
For unarmored, Falcon, and Ultimate (read: what you start the game with and what you achieve by cheat code), you have three height-boosters available (Ice Burst weapon, Jumper Power-Up Part, and Ultimate Armor's Nova Strike). You will need two of those three.
X's course in the second Gate's Lab stage is the next most common complaint, as people who go in there with Shadow Armor/unarmored but without Hyper Dash (Jumper makes it easier but isn't necessary) find themselves at an impass.
In all cases, there's always the Return To Title Screen -> Use Previous Data option, so beyond load times, restarting isn't a big deal at all (valid point is this amounts to a free Stage Exit, so they may as well have just included that and made things more streamlined). It's not like MM1 where you're stuck with no way to die; only the Reset button and starting the entire game over. You do not have to kill yourself to return to Stage Select, even though a lot of players ignore that.
A lot of complaints boil down to the Shadow Armor's inability to air-dash, something that is an otherwise standard feature and the game is clearly designed to use it. But that's simply the tradeoff you make for Shadow's completely ludicrous power. You should have noticed that by the time you assembled it, and if you don't have the Parts to supplement it, you use it at your own risk. Going unarmored, never at any point necessary in the game, is the same drawback with no real benefit outside of a slightly wider and weaker buster, and the sheer satisfaction of knowing you're just that badass. You don't play X6 unarmored unless you know what you're doing, period.
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@Zan:
Zan you misread what I said, I said that they didn't spend as much time, not that they are of less quality, they are just less original and less vexing, if you look at ZX, nearly every area has a memorable(MOVING) background, and there is alot more diversity, making ZX feel WAY more lively than ZXA of wich the BG design felt bleak -compared to ZX, with the exception of Ouroboros and Submarine Volcano, wich are epic.
ZXA has more character sprites, but it sucks in stage and BG design...hmm, yeah I think I'll stay with ZX.
ZXA was dead in stage BG design. the music was not as good either, with only a few tracks being relly memorable, whereas the entire ZX1 ST was beautiful.
actually, yknow what it feels like, it feels like they overloaded ZX with awesome, and then didnt have barely any left for ZXA.
Antiquated? perhaps, but I do so like the feel it has, I prefer it vastly to ZXA's lack of choosing your own path.
Intermission stages and Final Stages ARE A GOOD THING, and besides, ZXA has final stages too >.> it's already so locked in it's path that an intermission would be strange.
I liked ZX's side missions.(better than calling them intermissions) they were often really interesting. and made better use of the huge "world" they presented, having you go back to other areas and stuff.
ZXA's few side missions were not that great, and were rather annoying at times. and didnt feel as rewarding.
You're probably right in the plot/player develpment thing, but keep in mind that the answer to the questions of ZX would not have been so statisfying without knowing so little in ZX. I also can't deny that the plotrelevance of missions is alot more varied in ZXA, however, in ZX I thought getting the 6 passwords to get to Model V and destroy it was more than enough reason/justification.
the whole password thing was pretty cool actually. I really enjoyed how each biometal had a password that reflected themselves.
And while ZX's arsenal may be less wide than ZXA's, ZX's forms have far less drawbacks, they all have a base set of abilities, and a set of model unique abilities, whereas most forms in ZXA don't even have all the BASE abilities, try finding a good use for Bifrost >.> having to change between every room and moving at that speed make boring gameplay, now THAT is quirky.
Bifrost was only good fo having fun, eg droping from that high drop in the quarry, or just stomping enemies. but he wasnt very practical outside of that...
I'm not saying ZX did everything better, but ZXA didn't do it either. both have flaws, imo ZXA has more, mainly due to it feeling less alive than ZX. did I mention ZX is my fav game? because it is.
definitely. If ZXA was as good in its BG and music, it would have stood out more, and we might have had a ZX3 by now.
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however ZXA did offer an infinitely better localization,
Yeah, with the X 7 voice actors doing Grey and Ashe injustice, (I can never see Grey the same way ever gain after realizing it was X's va from X7. and DONT get me started on Model X and Model Z.) plus it had very crappy audio quality. especially for the voices and the boss explosion sound. Bu maybe thats just me... I mean, They have Ocean Group for CM, X8, and then for MHX, is it that hard to get them for ZXA?
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I didn't say they held a candle to Mark, Lucas, and the gang (and believe me I was as disappointed with their absence as anyone). I just said it beats the hell out of ZX's localization, which was replacing Japanese VAs with dead silence.
So many players have no idea what they're missing with Lurerre....
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is it that hard to get them for ZXA?
Seeing how Mark is a doctor now... yeah, probably.
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it wouldn't sell more on wii
thread over
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Seeing how Mark is a doctor now... yeah, probably.
2 out of 3 would have been better than 0 out of 3.
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It's not like MM1 where you're stuck with no way to die; only the Reset button and starting the entire game over.
Wait, where in MegaMan 1 do you get stuck with no way to die, barring zipping your way into a wall with Up+Down or the Magnet Beam itself?
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So many players have no idea what they're missing with Lurrerre....
Out of all the voices in the game, that's your choice?
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The balance of adorable and menacing, with the echoes of the ocean abyss for dramatic effect? Yeah, that's what I choose.
Who's your choice? Prometheus?
Wait, where in MegaMan 1 do you get stuck with no way to die, barring zipping your way into a wall with Up+Down or the Magnet Beam itself?
Apologies, I forgot that you can go backwards across the screen-pans. Still, backtracking for the explicit purpose of dying to get back to Stage Select is moronic.
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Fistleo has a cool voice. I like his voice.
I dunno, I can't really get excited over what seems to me to be just a generic high pitched Japanese girl. Even if she does sometimes change to be a lower pitched Japanese girl.
Prairie's nice too. I like listening to her trying to pronounce area names.
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Apologies, I forgot that you can go backwards across the screen-pans. Still, backtracking for the explicit purpose of dying to get back to Stage Select is moronic.
It's not so much the backtracking after getting stuck that bothers me; the few places I can think of where you're forced to use Magnet Beam are all right next to a spike pit. The main issue is how close to Yellow Devil you get before you find out you have a problem. >w<
Zero, Blade, and obviously Shadow can all get past the infamous spike shaft without any additional weapons or equipment, and that's pretty much the toughest such obstacle the game throws at you. And unlike MM1, it's at the beginning of the stage, so you don't waste time and effort clearing previous obstacles and enemies.
Right, but then it still seems like a needless equipment/character checkpoint, which ruins some of the potential for minimalist runs through the game.
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I think I like ZXA better. For whatever reason, I think I've gone through it many more times than ZX.
I don't think moving the ZX series to the Wii would really increase it's sales. Then again, I'm not an expert on these things...
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ZXA was dead in stage BG design. the music was not as good either, with
only a few tracks being relly memorable, whereas the entire ZX1 ST was beautiful.
actually, yknow what it feels like, it feels like they overloaded ZX with
awesome, and then didnt have barely any left for ZXA
Dead is a good f*cking term. the music is a taste matter imo, but I do agree with you.
It certainly does feel like you say, they overloaded ZX with awesome and were left
short with ZXA, you can notice this in the smallest things, the annoying forced
transformations, the dead atmosphere...they should've taken more time to think
those things trough.
I wasn't talking about the Quests, I was talking about the Intermissions,
wich are stuff like the invasion of a Resistance/Guardian base. a mission set
between missions. I love ZX's quests, but I'm not saying ZXA's quests were bad,
they were enjoyable too.
but all in all ZXA cut into the players freedom wich is A BAD BAD THING!
MORE AREAS MORE SECRETS MORE PWNAGE, I don't mind more forms,
as long as the drawbacks are contained to an amusing level.
As for voice acting, JAP OR GTFO! :P I only really enjoy japanese voice acting.
I navigated my way through in japanese (reading barely enough to get around,
mainly area name and trying new spots, I even took use out of the backgrounds
too, lol.) the stupidest thing did happen...I couldn't find Serpent HQ, forgetting
entirely there was a huge door behind me while fighting Giro >.> when I did find it,
I slapped myself in the face.
Anyways even in japanese navigation of Rockman games is easy /SSR.
@Hypershell
They kinda are intermissions, but for some reason, the intensity is alot less than
in the previous 5 title's intermissions...
Saving the people in the desert is so 2002.
Attack of Legion HQ is very Zero-esque, so I do like that.
I do agree with the starting points, even tho I never had issues with the
routeplanning, I can work my way around cinq Ville by transerver just the way
I like...even tho a server in Area J and H wouldn't have hurt, imo.
OIS is too simplistic, but I really don't give a damn about that, Serpent can still
mess you up at the end of hardmode, even with OIS he can kick your ass fine.
OX is awesome, something I liked best about ZX is that Double Charge Shot
returned WITHOUT the drawback of having to stand still (unless jumping).
And while FX does have this feature, I can live with it like with Forte.
Also, it's Messenko? not Rakuhouha? damn I have aids in my eyes >.>
Nerfing is bad, m'kay, didn't appreciate it in Z4, can't appreciate it now.
btw in ZXA, is the charge saber 1 1/2 the regular slash's strength? I forgot.
True, If anything I make use most of OIS due to the swiftness and effectiveness,
but chargeshots are reserved for occasional use, except X/ZX ofcourse.
Oh yes, I'm not denying the better localization, but that's not really any of
my concern, I have a steady source wich gives me access to easy import from japan.
I do see why some people could select ZXA above ZX, in America.
Armed Hu/Re is awesome, but I do miss the aura of awesome from enemies no longer
stopping in their tracks because you are harmless, I don't know why, but it added
a lot for me.
-Elpis
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Right, but then it still seems like a needless equipment/character checkpoint, which ruins some of the potential for minimalist runs through the game.
Minimalist runs? You can clear X6 having only obtained two upgrades. One if you're playing as Zero. It doesn't get more minimalist than that unless you're playing X5. No other game besides those two lets you skip the eight bosses, therefore you cannot reach the end of any other title without at least eight upgrades.
An equipment/character checkpoint implies that the solution is a single mandatory item. That is never the case within X6. As I said X can get through the entire game with only two upgrades, but as for which two upgrades, there are five possible combinations (counting armor as one, but not counting special weapon choices, which would jack it up to 11; and if you discount Blade and Shadow as requiring 4 parts, that still leaves 3 combinations for X to work with).
Besides, isn't part of the challenge of a minimalist run determining what the minimum requirements actually are? Yet every time I turn around I'm the one educating the rest of the internet on the fact that, yes, the game is not impossible with unarmored X.
Also, it's Messenko? not Rakuhouha? damn I have aids in my eyes >.>
According to Marshmallow Man's ZX guide translations, yes.
Nerfing is bad, m'kay, didn't appreciate it in Z4, can't appreciate it now.
btw in ZXA, is the charge saber 1 1/2 the regular slash's strength? I forgot.
As I recall, yes, Model ZX has the same charged saber strength between the two games.
BTW, I had a thought on the whole BME management debate. A way to make your various forms' charged attacks more useful while retaining, and in fact adding, some Classic/X kudos:
RECHARGE BIOMETAL ENERGY AT TRANS SERVERS!
Seriously, I was replaying MM3 when it hit me, and I wanted to facepalm myself for not thinking of it sooner. I use weapons in Classic because, Wily Castle excepted, I only have to worry about what I'll need until the end of the stage. ZX has no interlinked stages and thus recharges health at Trans Servers, but not weapons.
It's little things like that which can detract so much from a game. Same with ZXA and its forced switching for activating transport points.
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Besides, isn't part of the challenge of a minimalist run determining what the minimum requirements actually are? Yet every time I turn around I'm the one educating the rest of the internet on the fact that, yes, the game is not impossible with unarmored X.
Quiet, I'm trying to make snide comments about a game without actually playing it!
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I never thought the game was impossible with unarmoured X, I was just saying that I thought it was ridiculous that you needed upgrades that you can potentially miss to actually be able to finish the game unarmoured. I've had no problems in any of the other X games getting through unarmoured and using nothing but the buster, but X6 is the one exception to this rule (that I can think of at the moment) which I find is bad design. As for your comment concerning X6 giving you the armour at first as a point to base your basic abilites, I point out the fact that X5 did the same thing if you picked X, and guess what? That's right, you could finish that one unarmoured without any upgrades. I'm not a big fan of X5's design either, but I'll give it that at the very least.
As for the original topic of this thread, I don't really think ZX would have sold more if it was on the Wii. As much as most of us here on RPM would love 2D platformers on consoles, the truth of the matter is that most people are not of this mindset. Platformers were (and still are for the most part) mostly expected to be on Handhelds. Unless the game is DLC, of course, but even then the pricing would be a very important factor on how well it did. Also there's the fact that Capcom was probably very cautious about releasing this sort of thing, especially considering it's a new iteration of the MM series. The only reason they went ahead with MM9 was because they knew that nostalgia would boost the sales on it quite a bit. ZX wouldn't have had that chance, leaving mainly just the old MM fans who were willing to try it, which was already the case as it is anyways.
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I thought it was ridiculous that you needed upgrades that you can potentially miss to actually be able to finish the game unarmoured.
I will again reiterate that YOU SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING X6 UNARMORED IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. You start the game with Falcon Armor. And it doesn't bite you.
I point out the fact that X5 did the same thing if you picked X.
You destroyed your own argument with that last phrase. The difference is that X5's Fourth Armor is not unavoidable, you can start the game as Zero and you don't get it. In X6, the Falcon Armor is completely unavoidable. It is the standard, with no alternative, when you start the game. You do not downgrade from your starting condition if you don't know what you're doing.
The only reason they went ahead with MM9 was because they knew that nostalgia would boost the sales on it quite a bit.
Could also have something to do with the fact that the development team was about twenty people. Microscopic by today's standards.
That's right, you could finish that one unarmoured without any upgrades.
I will again reiterate that X5 is the ONLY game in the entire series in which this is possible. Special weapons are upgrades, too.
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I will again reiterate that X5 is the ONLY game in the entire series in which this is possible. Special weapons are upgrades, too.
Yet you don't have to use them to advance for the most part. That's the vital difference here.
The rest of the arguments are nice and all, but it doesn't change the fact that you can finish the game unarmoured in every other X game without upgrades you can miss for good. This is not the case with X6. I figured I didn't have to explain this, but of course I have to be as crystal clear as possible, don't I?
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Can you miss them for good? There are plenty of rescueables that have not a single Nightmare nearby.
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Just don't let the Nightmares grab them, and you can always go back and pick them up later. ^^
When they are infected, they will be "MISSING". You won't be able to rescue them anymore. Don't let that happen!
You can trick Nightmares towards you if you have the Nightmare show up on-screen, but don't have the Repliroid showing.
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Why in the blue hell would anyone be attempting an unarmored run if they suck badly enough that the Nightmares are capturing the Reploids, anyway? The only area where that should remotely be a problem is Metal Shark Player, as there's one Nightmare which is particularly tough to nab in time without a screen-wide move. And even that is not impossible, I know because I've collected every power-up as both X and Zero without ever obtaining a special weapon.
Yet you don't have to use them to advance for the most part. That's the vital difference here.
Ever played MegaMan 1, 2, 3, or 8? You're also not going to finish X2 without Damage Barrier abuse, another grounds on which many criticize X6. And good luck getting to Shadow Devil with Gaia Armor in X5 (possible, yes, but a pain in the absolute ass).
Getting screwed by equipment choice, or weapon energy in the case of earlier games, is nothing new.
The rest of the arguments are nice and all, but it doesn't change the fact that you can finish the game unarmoured in every other X game without upgrades you can miss for good.
-Rapid 5
-Shot Eraser
-Power Drive
-Speedster
-Quick Charge
-Overdrive
-Damage Converter
-1 Life Up
-2 Energy Ups
...which of those are you having trouble beating the game without?
This is not the case with X6. I figured I didn't have to explain this, but of course I have to be as crystal clear as possible, don't I?
You are crystal clear. I simply consider your argument invalid. I do not consider the usefulness of equipment to be a flaw. If among 7 different solutions to a spike wall you cannot find ONE that suits you, that's your problem. If you lack the ability to determine minimum requirements then you should not be attempting minimal runs in the first place.
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Why in the blue hell would anyone be attempting an unarmored run if they suck badly enough that the Nightmares are capturing the Reploids, anyway? The only area where that should remotely be a problem is Metal Shark Player, as there's one Nightmare which is particularly tough to nab in time without a screen-wide move. And even that is not impossible, I know because I've collected every power-up as both X and Zero without ever obtaining a special weapon.
Ever played MegaMan 1, 2, 3, or 8? You're also not going to finish X2 without Damage Barrier abuse, another grounds on which many criticize X6. And good luck getting to Shadow Devil with Gaia Armor in X5 (possible, yes, but a pain in the absolute ass).
Getting screwed by equipment choice, or weapon energy in the case of earlier games, is nothing new.
-Rapid 5
-Shot Eraser
-Power Drive
-Speedster
-Quick Charge
-Overdrive
-Damage Converter
-1 Life Up
-2 Energy Ups
...which of those are you having trouble beating the game without?
You are crystal clear. I simply consider your argument invalid. I do not consider the usefulness of equipment to be a flaw. If among 7 different solutions to a spike wall you cannot find ONE that suits you, that's your problem. If you lack the ability to determine minimum requirements then you should not be attempting minimal runs in the first place.
Look, it's not that I'm incapable of doing it (as you should very well know by now), it's that I find it ridiculous that you need those parts in the first place. Yeah it's usually easy to get the parts, but the very fact that these parts can theoretically be missed is my issue with the system. In no other X game do you really need a part to advance (again, unarmoured), so I find it stupid that all of a sudden it's needed here.
I was only counting the X games when it came to weapon use to advance, by the way... I'm well aware of the Classic series segments where weapons are needed. Then again, you have to get the weapons anyways, so using them in that one spot and switching back to the buster is just fine (which you can't do for parts in the middle of a stage, as you obviously know).
Also, damage barrier abuse is kind of a part of minimal runs in general, depending on the game. Besides, it's not like you need to get a part to have said damage barrier >_>'
Anyways, I'll stop here. We obviously view this differently, and there's no convincing one another from what I can see. It's a waste of time and space to go on, so that's the end of that from my end.
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Look, it's not that I'm incapable of doing it (as you should very well know by now), it's that I find it ridiculous that you need those parts in the first place. Yeah it's usually easy to get the parts, but the very fact that these parts can theoretically be missed is my issue with the system. In no other X game do you really need a part to advance (again, unarmoured), so I find it stupid that all of a sudden it's needed here.
"Can theoretically be missed" implies a casual playthrough by the unfamiliar. Arguing for the inconvenience of Unarmored X in X6 is entirely pointless, because it is NOT the game's standard form. Falcon Armor is. Unarmored exists solely for a challenge. The only Part which is required to clear the game with Falcon is Jumper. That and Ice Burst, a special weapon which you seem to consider exempt to your argument, get you through anything. And all three forms you can possibly come across over the course of the game can get through there unaided. Ultimate can make it with Ice Burst alone, as well.
Thus your argument applies to a casual run only if somebody is bone-headed enough to have cleared all 8 bosses/gathered 3000 Nightmare Souls without assembling either armor or finding Zero. Possible but unlikely (especially considering Zero is damn near impossible to miss in Infinity Mijinion's level). And if you're purposefully doing a minimal run, then it's your responsibility to determine what the minimum requirements are, so the point is moot.
You're arguing on two fronts that are simply not compatible with each other. Your entire argument centers around unarmored X, which is in and of itself, much less during the game's final stretch, something you should not be doing in X6 unless you're already familiar with it. That you "can" miss something is irrelevant when you are pursuing an option that exists solely for the purpose of a higher challenge.
(which you can't do for parts in the middle of a stage, as you obviously know)
The full and sole offender in your argument is at the start of a stage. And Start/Select doesn't bite.
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I just find it annoying that the minimum requirements to get by in X6 actually involve things beyond the very bare minimum (y'know, like basically every other X game). I like doing my unarmoured X buster only runs, but I simply can't do it in X6 for several reasons that we've gone over already (again and again, I add). Enough repetition out of me though, since it's clear my opinion means moot to you.