RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => Original => Topic started by: ParasiteBirth on August 01, 2009, 01:55:47 AM
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From what I can see so far, those two are claimed to be the hardest Classic Megaman games we have so far, but wich one was harder for you personaly? to me it was defenetly Megaman And Bass, because Megaman 9 ( On normal ) wasn't hard at all.
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I say MM&B. Though I never played it as excessively as the other titles I can assure you that there's a factor in MM&B that makes the difficulty grow. That factor would be Dynamo Man.
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Yeah, MM&B even though I finished it but not 9. I think even regular mets could take a charge shot, dying in the process sure but yet stopping it from blowing through into the mooks behind them.
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MM&B as Bass > MM9 > MM&B as Megaman
Easiest to hardest.
Double jump? Check.
Dash? Check.
Flying? Check.
Directional rapid-buster? Check.
...game's a piece of cake? Check.
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MM&B, simply because I can't play well at all with the god-awful double-tap to dash controls (I'd play as Rock, but the levels are even worse as him), and I just end up using cheats when playing the SFC version. As for MM9, never managed beat it, so I really don't know.
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don't believe people when they say MM9 is hard. unless they're referring to Superhero mode, they don't know what the hell they're talking about. the difficulty is on par with 2-6.
MM&B, on the other hand, is pretty difficult. especially when you're Mega Man. the game feels like it was designed with Bass in mind; Mega has a pretty tough time. and no matter who you are, there's Dynamo Man. [tornado fang] him.
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Megaman 9 and Megaman and Bass are 2 different kinds of 'hard'.
MM9 kills you a lot, but only in short-length stages.
MM&B has LOOOOOOOONG stages and a LOT of sturdy enemies.
Different beasts, and different playstyles will handle the 2 challenges differently.
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Actually, they were both easy. ^^ But I guess MM9 was harder since Splash Women's hotness was so.......captivating. 0v0
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Mega Man & Bass.
God damn you, Burner Man. You and your giant napalm Tellies and abundance of spikes.
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I'm not sure if I'm qualified to post here, not having played MM9 and all, but...To me, MMnB wasn't just tough. It was CHEAP. It took a miracle to beat any of the RMs with Bass, let alone Megaman. And that last stretch before fighting Burnerman...Christ on a pita. It's like MMnB was designed to [acid burst] players off while still being a decent game.
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MM9 was easy compared to MM&B, besides the re-use of Tenguman and Astroman, plus some of the stages. Burner's a pain though. '>.>
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Rm9 > R&F as Rock > R&F as Forte
Easiest to Hardest
We all know that Rm9 is kind of hard but remember that Rm9 has THE BROKEN SATELLITE! .... And other great weapons. A broken weapon = a piece of cake.
As for R&F I find playing as Rock to be easier than Forte. The stage is not that different between the two (you just need more preciseness playing as Rock, that's all.) The problem is that Forte will have a hard time overall when you reach King stage 2. 4 Boss fights in a row without anything being beneficial to our poor Forte (like additional platforms, etc.). I'd say THAT is the most difficult part of the game and Forte just make it worse, in the other hand, the appearance of Rockman make everything better in that stage.
Anyways that doesn't make R&F any easier than Rm9 when Rm9 has THE BROKEN SATELLITE! .... And the other weapons.
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MM&B, either character, the bosses are tougher.
MM9 is dirt-simple once you know where the traps are. The fact that the entire challenge is trial-and-error with at times virtually no room for reaction (DAMN YOU HELICOPTER CLAWS) is one of the main reasons I consider it inferior to actual NES titles. The other being that the shop system blows.
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MM9 > R&F > MM&B
Easiest to hardest.
Despite not reaching the Twin Devils in MM9 (darn you second floating part), MM9 is definitely easiest of the lot.
R&F is easier than MM&B due to the absence of screen restrictions (Darn you invisible platform preventing my movement in Burner Man's stage).
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R&F is easier than MM&B due to the absence of screen restrictions (Darn you invisible platform preventing my movement in Burner Man's stage).
Don't forget the crappy dash controls in MM&B -_-
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Strangely, I didn't mind that at all... -_-
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Mega Man & Bass was hard?
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MEgaman & Bass is the game that HATES YOU! It's like the level designers said to themselves. "Okay we all hate gamers. I just wish we had a way of making them understand just how much we hate them. I know how about insanely long levels, mets that can take a charge shot, no E-tanks, no Rush transports, and the second King stage should have four bosses, one of which should be autoscrolling over a pit with moving platforms that the boss can destroy, and can blind you. Yeah if we do all of that I think they will understand our hatred."
So yeah, MM9 is challenging until you get things figured out and start using the proper weapons in the right places, but ultimately it's made out of love, while Megaman & Bass is made of hate.
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Megan and Bass
Anyone that says otherwise is factually wrong because of Dynamoman and King's Castle.
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Megan and Bass
Anyone that says otherwise is factually wrong because of Dynamoman and King's Castle.
And easy boss and an easy castle?
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Megaman 9 is easier bosses and easier castle.
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Megaman 9 is easier bosses and easier castle.
Oh please, the difficulty in Mega Man and Bass is laughable. You're basically babied throughout the entire game.
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Doesn't change the fact 9 is easier.
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Can't comment on MM9. The only difficulties I had in Mega Man & Bass was Mega Man Vs the King Jetter. Had trouble with Super King's ridiculous mech too when I played it on an emulator years and years ago and had no idea what worked.
Mega Man rocks the bosses, Forte rocks the stages. My only complaint was that the smaller screen seemed to make things a bit awkward.
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oh great, now you guys reminded me of the GBA port. [tornado fang] that game and its cutoffs at the top and bottom. and [tornado fang] it for not having a dash button. i wish RMF's dash wasn't permenantly mapped to A, but at least there's a button for it, and you can map it to wherever you want on an emulator. i can't stand double tap for dash.
and the biggest reason MMB is tougher than MM9: the last CD in Ground Man's stage. that is just plain unfair. MM9 doesn't have anything CLOSE to how disgusting that is.
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Oh right... That CD...
That's the only one left that I have yet to collect... >_<
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[tornado fang], you just reminded me of it. I [tornado fang]ing hate it, and I still haven't obtained it.
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i had to savestate so many times to do that. i didn't even try to do it on my GBA; it would just cause tears.
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Doesn't change the fact 9 is easier.
Holding your hand doesn't make it easier?
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What I did to get that last CD was to turn on the power-up that gives you a stronger shot when your health is low. I also beat the Sniper Joe when it was on the very edge of the screen, so I wouldn't be fighting it while the floor was being destroyed. Then when I summoned Rush with low health, my shots were strong enough to destroy the floor-muncher in one hit, and with some practice I got the timing down so that I always hit that enemy before it got too far. I do wonder if that was the intended solution, since that's the only thing that worked for me without using savestates!
Holding your hand doesn't make it easier?
In what ways does the game "baby" you or "hold your hand"?
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^ Yes that was the same tactic that I do to get that CD as far as I remember. MM&B is one of my first two GBA games together with Circle Of The Moon.
MM&B has no E-Tank...THAT'S IT. Yes there are weapon upgrades & other tools to assist but an existent of E-Tank will make a huge difference. The stages are longer, which would normally I will like if implemented in 8-bit games but in this... >_<
That Centipede midboss in Ground Man Stage always gets into my nerve. >_< Plus there's Dynamo Man, Magic Man, & Pirate Man...those bastard. Then when I first reach the Final stage where the boss rematch is I was like...WT@#%! *Jaw drops*
Though that was actually pretty cool I think instead of the usual 8 Boss Capsule room.
Note: I normally play as Megaman using only the Buster(NO CHARGE).
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Megaman and Bass....why?
Remember the time when bosses couldn´t heal themselves? [tornado fang] you DynamoMan....[tornado fang] you.
Do you remember when AstroMan was an easy boss with a terrible stage? Have you noticed that the Magic Card does almost [parasitic bomb] to him?
But it was fun 8)
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MM&B, King Stages, the bosses but especially the flying tank, God I died so much to it.
MM9 was hard, but more entertainingly hard. I would say that MM9 is the better pick up and play of the two.
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BoMF is right about the off-screen take-out on Snipey Joe. When he's gone, you can take care of the mole by aiming properly with the buster, while Rush is digging. The moment it pops up, shoot, then jump and shoot again while its airborne and shoot one more time when it re-appears. If you're fast enough, you can take it down before the mole digs back into the ground again. I do it without the Power Shot.
What I don't understand is why people depended on save states to get that CD. I did it easily on my Super Famicom and the Game Boy Player. Even though there's some kind of annoyance level with the CD & enemy placement, if you have sexcellent buster shot precision, it isn't as tough as you think.
If you're unsure of when the mole will show up, take a few steps to the right until you see the mole and QUICKLY turn back (while it's still airborne). You now have an idea of where the respawn for the mole is, and whenever you're ready, use your buster to take it down, switch to Rush Search, let him dig and remember to shoot the mole when it shows up again.
Before you dig, you can use Lightning Bolt to get rid of the moles and Joe. ^^
Mega Man & Bass was hard?
Finally someone who agrees with me~ *high 5* ^.^O
The rest of you, watch my theme week video. </wii>
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In what ways does the game "baby" you or "hold your hand"?
You are given only a choice of 3 bosses at the start, all with incredibly predictable battles. The bosses they end up unlocking have an obvious weakness to the one you just defeated. So that cuts the whole Rock Scissors Paper guessing games. Stages aren't that long, I have no idea what you guys are talking about, not to mention they're not that tough either. Their difficulty largely depends on one-hit kill areas. ALL the upgrades can be purchased unlike Mega Man 8, so you can end up with everything before you even reach King's Castle. On top of that, a majority of them boost your base powers quite a bit making further challenges even easier, let's not forget that you can also buy all the 1ups you want. King's Stages are also some of the easiest in the series by far. The only difficulty I would see is getting past some of those bosses the first time around.
Mega Man 9 still retained the shop, but most items were expensive. The game was also pretty damn hard the first run through since it gave you absolutely no mercy and you had the Rock Scissors Paper guessing game back where you would fight the boss in no specific order and hope you could get down their pattern before being taken down to your last life. Sure, after your second one, it's easy as [tornado fang], but you already know what's coming.
Really, MM&B was easy by Mega Man standards. The addition of E-tanks would have just made an easy game even easier.
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Even if I do agree with some of your points, I still found MM9 easier, specially the bosses. Besides, the question is which is harder, not if MM&B is hard.
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if you have sexcellent buster shot precision,
And most of us don't. >^<
That's why RockMan games have Master Weapons and That One Easy Boss.
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yeah Vix. not all of us have fast Swedish fingers.
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Besides, the question is which is harder, not if MM&B is hard.
It's relevant to the question.
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I suppose they give you the 100 CDs quest for if you want to MAKE the game hard.
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I seriously think Dynamo man was the hardest thing in Megaman And Bass...Maybe Dynamo man and the fight with King, overall I think it was pretty easy too.
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I never played 9, but it still looks easier than MM&Bass. dear lord Dynamo man... And dont get me started on King's stages. even Wily was easier than all the stages combined. the stages were made for Bass, but someone at cappy said, "No, you have to have Megaman in it too" so they threw him in too. Bass is broken compared to Megaman. But seriously, many of the stages were reeeally cheap. tenguman's made me rage a bit. Those cloud enemies were annoying.
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Mega Man 9 still retained the shop, but most items were expensive.
MM&B does not allow you to camp an enemy spawn point with the Jewel Satellite while you nap, so that point is moot.
Sure, after your second one, it's easy as [tornado fang], but you already know what's coming.
See, there's how someone can differ in what one defines as a "challenge". To me a challenge should be challenging even when you know what's coming. Your first run is the learning curve. Difficulty is defined to me after you know what you're doing, and in that sense, MM9 is easy as [parasitic bomb]. By your third run you can play the game with your eyes closed; the game HAS virtually no difficulty outside of trial-and-error.
To me, not only does that not make a challenging game, it doesn't make that great a MegaMan game. It's a good thing there's a kickass arsenal, kickass music, and ProtoMan, because the difficulty level and the shop are both crap.
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Well, Bass can shoot straight up at worms in GroundMan's level, so does that count as a good campsite too?
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No, because shooting up requires you hold something on the controller, therefore you cannot nap without the use of rubber bands/weights.
It's considerably slower, too, since Bass can work only with a single spawn point. MM9 lets you use two or three at once easily, so long as they're close enough.
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See, there's how someone can differ in what one defines as a "challenge". To me a challenge should be challenging even when you know what's coming. Your first run is the learning curve. Difficulty is defined to me after you know what you're doing, and in that sense, MM9 is easy as [parasitic bomb]. By your third run you can play the game with your eyes closed; the game HAS virtually no difficulty outside of trial-and-error.
To me, not only does that not make a challenging game, it doesn't make that great a MegaMan game.
except every other Classic game, and many other MMs like the first two X games, is just like that; after your first trip through, you know what's coming.
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ANY game benefits from experience, get equipped with relative terms. The vast majority of X-series and Classic-series games remain at a fair challenge after repeated plays, and even if easy, at least remain engaging. I don't consider being easy or difficult to be in and of itself a game flaw. I DO consider challenge derived solely from memorizing the location of off-screen death traps to be a flaw. Once you know where the helicopter claws are, that's about half of MM9's challenge gone right there.
Other MegaMan games involve this little thing called reaction, it's what lets you get through an unfamiliar challenge without necessarily having to die first. There's virtually none of that in MM9. There's just throwing your lives away as you learn the death trap locations (oh yeah, and knowing how to snake your jump path without a dash). If I wanted a game that took your lives for the hell of it, I'd play I Wanna Be The Guy.
I'm not saying MM9 isn't fun, it is. I'm just saying there are better MegaMan games out there.
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MM&B does not allow you to camp an enemy spawn point with the Jewel Satellite while you nap, so that point is moot.
It is not a moot point. The contents of the shop end up affecting the difficulty as well.
Mega Man 9's shop only has items for purchase such as E-Tanks and Master Tanks.
Mega Man and Bass has character upgrades that increase your base powers. There's even one for health regeneration.
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Last I checked, this topic was about posting your own opinion of game difficulty comparison, not taking half of the topic to make others see your point, why it matters, and why it's right.
Only played a demo of Megaman 9, but I have MM&B stashed away, and while the old Classic games were tough, MM&B shoves a Tornado Fang in my ass every chance it gets. I don't even remember the bosses anymore because I was only able to reach one, and he opened a can of Capcom hatred mixed with some cream and abit of Whoop Ass on me. o//////o
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Eh, overall I had a tougher time with RM&B. RM9 was based almost entirely on memorization, even more so than the older entries in the series. I seem to recall mentioning this at some point in the past, but anyways, the point stands that RM9 is based far more on memorization than most RMs. How difficult RM9 is is entirely tied with how quickly you catch on to the obstacles. For me, it was by and large far easier than RM&B.
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Hey there's this game on the SNES called Mega Man 9 (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/ROCK85.png), and you can play as both Mega Man and Bass!!
No one knows what I'm talking about. >v<
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Gotta love the classic Rockman 8.5/Rockman 9 ROM title for RM&F/MM&B that drove fans freakin' nuts. XD
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King mech was super annoying as Bass. You had to get Juuust the right angle with the buster to hit him.
At least Megaman gets a platform. >_>;
then theres Brnerman's stage, with its insta-death burning forests of doom. and ugh. just... the whole game was annoying. theres a fine line between challenging and annoying, and MM&B crosses that line by quite a distance.
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you're fighting the King Megazord from the ground? Bass can double jump high enough to shoot it point blank, if i remember correctly. at least, that's how it works with Wave Burner. kills him in 5 hits, by the way.
and i don't remember that platform being there for Mega in the GBA version.
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The platform was there in the GBA version.
As for Bass, I always had to double-jump off an Ice Wall to get a clean shot at King Mech...
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guess i gotta watch the TAS again.
yep, you can double jump right to it.
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Eh, overall I had a tougher time with RM&B.
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For me, it was by and large far easier than RM&B.
RockMan and Bass?
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Hmm.
I said it was "hard" earlier, though that really wasn't for me. Although I do recall the King Mech and...some part of Dynamo Man's stage being a pain in the tail. Was it the midboss? Can't remember.
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RockMan and Bass?
Hah, nice catch... that's what I get for posting when I'm tired. Oh well, Rockman & Forte, for those of you that somehow don't manage to know what I'm talking about.
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No, let's call it MegaMan & Forte!
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I think we need a Rush'n Treble game. It just rolls off the tongue so easily... Rush'n Treble.
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Should I turn this one (http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=1667.0) into Rush'n Treble~? C:
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Sure. Why not?
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reminds me of Rush 'n Attack.
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Mega Man 9's shop only has items for purchase such as E-Tanks and Master Tanks.
Mega Man and Bass has character upgrades that increase your base powers. There's even one for health regeneration.
Given complaints, I'll make this quick:
No matter how many "base power" upgrades you buy, you can only equip one, limiting your results. The level of E-Tanks alone that you can carry in MM9, much less the M-Tank, three Spike Barriers, and three Beat saves, make it infinitely easier.
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guess i gotta watch the TAS again.
yep, you can double jump right to it.
I think you had to dash double jump. which again, with the double tap...
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dashing doesn't affect the height of the jumps.
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The thing about RM9 is that it becomes so easy that you don't even need to ever go into the shop after the first playthrough or two, yet again because of the way the game is constructed. Tricky move on Capcom's part, but they managed to find a way to make it so that the game is actually easier than it's ancestors, yet still manages to retain the feel of the older games nonetheless. You don't really need to have as much twitch reflexes compared to the older games, but most people don't even notice.
RM&F has plenty of points that surpass the segments in RM9 that could be remotely considered difficult, upgrades or not. The GBA version of RM&F is even more difficult if you factor in the less intuitive controls and limited screen size.
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dashing doesn't affect the height of the jumps.
Actually, it does. The technique I used was dash at the wall and double jump. You get more height off the original jump and the second gives you enough to get King right in the face.
Also, wave burner? What?
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I've never played MM9, but MM&B had it's moments, mainly due to weird stage design. Of course, R&F Wonderswan is harder than both of 'em anyway. Heck, the Green Devil is harder than some incarnations of Wily/Sigma I've fought in the series (I'm not kidding either).
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The thing about RM9 is that it becomes so easy that you don't even need to ever go into the shop after the first playthrough or two, yet again because of the way the game is constructed. Tricky move on Capcom's part, but they managed to find a way to make it so that the game is actually easier than it's ancestors, yet still manages to retain the feel of the older games nonetheless. You don't really need to have as much twitch reflexes compared to the older games, but most people don't even notice.
are you sure that the game is really easier than its ancestors? cause i'm thinking you're just old enough and have gathered enough experience with Mega Man to learn the game's tricks quickly. it's the same thing i say to PB when he says Twilight Princess is easier than past Zeldas; it's not easier, you just have a better idea of what's coming.
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are you sure that the game is really easier than its ancestors? cause i'm thinking you're just old enough and have gathered enough experience with Mega Man to learn the game's tricks quickly. it's the same thing i say to PB when he says Twilight Princess is easier than past Zeldas; it's not easier, you just have a better idea of what's coming.
I'm pretty sure. For example, the layout of the enemies in most stages in RM9 are much easier to handle than say RM2. The disappearing blocks segments are also far easier. Same thing can be said for most of the game.
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The disappearing blocks segments are also far easier.
well, i can't argue with that one.
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it's the same thing i say to PB when he says Twilight Princess is easier than past Zeldas; it's not easier, you just have a better idea of what's coming.
u r mr wrong
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No matter how many "base power" upgrades you buy, you can only equip one, limiting your results.
You can swap them out at any point to fit the situation. Need life energy? Swap out to the Auto Energy, or the Large Energy recover, or abuse the Auto Energy and Weapon Damage recovery.
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Thank you, ObviousMan, but it's still one at a time. The switcheroos only get you so far. And they do not compare to MM9's shop items, the recovery they grant you is massive, as is the death trap immunity. Most of your recovery options (Eddie being a major exception, but he's MM exclusive) in MM&B are worthless unless you're in a safe area.
are you sure that the game is really easier than its ancestors? cause i'm thinking you're just old enough and have gathered enough experience with Mega Man to learn the game's tricks quickly. it's the same thing i say to PB when he says Twilight Princess is easier than past Zeldas; it's not easier, you just have a better idea of what's coming.
Denied. Besides MM&B; 1, 2, 7, and 8 are all harder than MM9, and with the exception of 7, I replay them all on a fairly regular basis. 4-6 are a blur in my head, though I have played them to completion on AC, but my memory of them isn't solid enough to make a good call. MM3 is the only main-series Classic game that I would definitely call easier than MM9, and that is probably due in no small part to the fact that I replay it insanely more often than any other NES game.
The simple fact is that MM9's shop breaks it. 9 E Tanks, 1 M Tank, 3 Spike Guards, 3 Beat Pickups, all a Jewel Satellite camp away. But because of the expected dependence on it, the designers left very little useful pick-up items. Barely any stray tanks. It's not a design that I'm fond of.
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True, true. Item pick-ups should be worked into the levels more. Finding a respawning enemy for farming bolts shouldn't have to be the main method to collect items.
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i can safely say MM5 is easier than 9. just Charge Shot your way through the game, and [sonic slicer] Wily with Beat.
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That gave me another thought: MegaMan 9 didn't have to make the weapons as awesome as it did when you couldn't rely on charge shots or armors anyway.
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Yeah, but awesome stuff is fun, regardless of what it compares to.
Besides, the feeling of a watered down arsenal for no reason other than relativity isn't exactly fun. One of the downsides of ZXA; Model ZX is barely any better, it just has a weaker arsenal to compare to.
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Thank you, ObviousMan, but it's still one at a time. The switcheroos only get you so far. And they do not compare to MM9's shop items, the recovery they grant you is massive, as is the death trap immunity. Most of your recovery options (Eddie being a major exception, but he's MM exclusive) in MM&B are worthless unless you're in a safe area.
Denied. Besides MM&B; 1, 2, 7, and 8 are all harder than MM9, and with the exception of 7, I replay them all on a fairly regular basis. 4-6 are a blur in my head, though I have played them to completion on AC, but my memory of them isn't solid enough to make a good call. MM3 is the only main-series Classic game that I would definitely call easier than MM9, and that is probably due in no small part to the fact that I replay it insanely more often than any other NES game.
The simple fact is that MM9's shop breaks it. 9 E Tanks, 1 M Tank, 3 Spike Guards, 3 Beat Pickups, all a Jewel Satellite camp away. But because of the expected dependence on it, the designers left very little useful pick-up items. Barely any stray tanks. It's not a design that I'm fond of.
I could go on, but the argument would be stale by this point so I'll just call it quits.
While I do not agree with your views on what makes each game hard, I will respect your opinions. Let's just enjoy our vidya in our own ways no matter the difficulty.
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No, you have to win this debate! Try harder!