RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => X => Topic started by: kosmos on April 09, 2010, 12:39:05 PM
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http://www.themmnetwork.com/2010/04/09/does-the-rockman-zero-collection-storyline-explain-everything/ (http://www.themmnetwork.com/2010/04/09/does-the-rockman-zero-collection-storyline-explain-everything/)
:chant: :chant:
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X6-X8 Never happened if you follow the original intentions.
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No X8 means no Avalanche Yeti.
And that's just wrong.
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That even means no Command mission...
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I can`t believe what they have written.
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This raises an interesting question.
If they ever make a new MMX game... will they name it MMX7 and just shove the original to the side?
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I think they just wanted to erase a certain reploid from the timeline *coughaxlcough*
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But how about Nana, Marino and Cinnamon?!
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So capcom didn't like X7 and X8 at all huh. :\
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What?! AXL IS NOT CANON ANYMORE?!
About whom am I going to write hate fics now?
lol
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THAT ALSO MEANS SIGMA IS NOT YET COMPLETELY DEFEATED
AWRIGHT!
GIMME MORE OF DAT BALD
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No X8 means no stupid neutral armor! >0<
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So that means ZXA never happened huh?
no copy chips...no Axl....
no Axl....no model A...
no model A....no trans-on...
no trans-on....no Albert...
no Albert....no ZXA....
no ZXA......no ZX....
what in the...screw it.....im getting myself confused here... o-O
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I see nothing in that text that disagrees with our current perception of the canon, which includes X7~8. It simply sums up the relevant points, with disregard of time passage. Take note that Light could have never finished X immediately following Rockman10. In that same vein, it's clear that Zero was not immediately discovered as the source of the Sigma Virus, following X6. This extra time is not taken into account in telling its story. And there's a lot of leeway here.
If Inti is ever to write a ZX summary, I'm sure the story of X7~XCM will be mentioned to introduce the origin of Albert's power.
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When Zero collection comes out..I just hope that they will announce the next zx game :\
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Definitely. And Zan, those are great points! (And who is that in your avvy now? Is that... Master Mikhail?!?)
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But how about Nana, Marino and Cinnamon?!
In yo' face!
Zan, I think you have a point there, but I'm beginning to think this plot is reaching above the lines of KH and LoZ combined. I guess we found out WHY BN exists, to help balance out the convoluted timeline of the Zero series, who needs a constant update whenever a main game releases of either X or Classic.. ZX seems to never have this continuity issue.. I guess it's why it's popular.
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And who is that in your avvy now? Is that... Master Mikhail?!?)
Yeah, that's Mikhail. Styled after April Fools.
Zan, I think you have a point there, but I'm beginning to think this plot is reaching above the lines of KH and LoZ combined.
I really don't think so. Aside from the "Zero turning good" part presented here. It's mostly the fans which are complicating matters. One shouldn't read these things as such absolutes; it's just a summary, it's not supposed to talk about everything but the matters important to itself. One should accept where things are vague, and where things are left unspoken, and not use the absence of a mention to implicate something is false. It's the same as when RZOCW was released; try to read it thinking about how things can fit, rather than how it contradicts.
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They went and did it again, didn't they. They just had to do it... And what an annoying format, anyone figure out how to stop that red line from changing every few moments? Alright, I'm taking notes here.
Firstly, taking these concepts at face value, Command Mission seems to be pushed to its own timeline unless that story itself was part of the Elf Wars. Zero's 50 year first sealing, the Elf Wars, as well as all of the X series incidents are now reported to fit into a 100 year period (all 1XX years ago). The only other option would be X1's back story taking place in circa 2155, and Command Mission being one of Zero's late adventures before his first sealing.
But then Wily would have lived one hell of a long time (or perhaps have been a cyber ghost already) to still have built and sealed Zero during that same ~1XX years' period, if that is to be taken literally as well. Since X was supposed to be buried for 100 years when Cain found him, and Light seemingly sealed X late in his lifetime, Zero's backstory should really be over 200 years ago as well. Though if Light really did finish X around the time of the Roboenza incident, but didn't activate him because of the antivirus and armor projects, perhaps X could be dormant for a good while before Zero was completed and sealed, although that doesn't mesh well with Light's agedness at X's sealing in the Day of Sigma. I guess this simply must be taken somewhat loosely to work at all.
Anyway. X7 and X8 on the other hand can still fit alright with some small effort, but can't be as spaced out in as many years after X6 as I would have thought before. If they are still to be taken as a singular rather than branching timeline.
Zero Zero Zero. Of all the things they could have kept from the 3 Keys... I didn't imagine that the virus turning Zero good scenario would make it onto one of Capcom's web pages yet again. Apparently he was a failure at first, wilder than Wily could control. I guess that explains why Serges had such trouble with Zero's brain chip in X2--Wily never got it right in the first place. But the virus... leaks out of Zero's capsule? And yet Zero, within the capsule the entire time, doesn't seem to acquire the virus himself until his battle with Sigma? It doesn't make much sense to say Zero was the first infected with the virus when Sigma was purportedly infected at roughly the same time... unless the "W" is the virus infecting Zero slightly first. But moreover, the virus is said here to be the cause of the first local Irregular outbreaks that spawned the Hunter organization. So simply, there had to be those infected before that who I guess are ignored by that definition.
So Zero had some kind of shielding to protect him from the virus, but thanks to Sigma apparently the virus gets in anyway, and affects him uniquely among all robots. As 3 Keys previously suggested, Zero experiences amnesia and a severe personality shift, and seems to develop an immunity to the virus in the process. Wily's most murderous robot and his master computer virus converge unintentionally and.... somehow cancel each other out. I guess this is Inafune's proposition of irony and circumstance?
Well, if Wily's other project from PF was the revamped virus which he intended to use to control the world, it does make a bit of sense that the two be kept somewhat together in Wily's crazy doomsday time capsule. That leaves us to wonder whether the leaking virus was an accident of aging machinery, and perhaps Zero's awakening as well. On the other hand, perhaps the virus was leaked as a test to see how it fared on reploids... that would imply that Wily was already revived and concurrently plotting before Zero's awakening. Either way, the idea that it is the capsule that spread the virus to Sigma and Zero during their battle may support the notion that the place they did battle was also the place Zero was sealed. Furthermore, the idea that some ancient equipment would still be emitting some maverick-making waves or whatnot could be how that section became the forbidden area to begin with. Almost a "curse of the mummy" type thing, tomb defilers beware.
Moving right along, we have confirmation that Zero was separated mind and body for the sake of the research, as well as the assertion that it was the government's decision to seal Zero either instead or in addition to Zero deciding to submit himself for study. Apparently Project Elpis is not the creation of the Mother Elf, but rather, the project to use her to control reploids en masse, the birth of the Dark Elf. Is this when Weil "stole" and "cursed" her? Was her use in this way actually legally approved despite X's reservations, or had Weil already done the damage, and was now merely setting up for the creation of Omega, his ultimate reploid?
According to X's and Neo Arcadia's character profiles, X established the organization known as Neo Arcadia to protect the survivors of humanity (during or after the Elf Wars?) and build the dome for them to live in. Was Weil once a member of X's organization, then subsequently banished from it? X is said to have ruled in his heyday not by totaltarianism, but by means of his own justice and leadership. He refused to use the Dark Elf to exert control, and this made him even more popular. Years later, both the government and the city itself are referred to as Neo Arcadia, but it seems that was not X's intention. It's good to have a better understanding of how Neo Arcadia existed at its beginning, though.
X seals the Dark Elf within himself so no one can use her in the Project Elpis way ever again. According to his bio, the act of doing so caused his soul to split into 5 parts, 4 of which became our Big 4, and the last becomes the drifting cyber elf that we've come to know as X proper. So now not only are the Big 4 bioroid clones of X's DNA and potentially making use of his "parts," but they're even reincarnated pieces of his very own soul. I guess that's why they can cheat death so readily, some kind of reploid horcrux scenario.
Another interesting thing was the description of Ciel and the Cyber Elves. Apparently Cyber Elves cannot be seen or interacted with by humans without some manner of aid, only reploids can see and feel them. Ciel requires her visor to interract, although she didn't seem to be using it when she interacted with Passy, but maybe just because it wasn't down over her face doesn't mean the effect wasn't occuring. I guess this must have been fixed by the time of Vent and Aile in ZX, machine bodies and all.
Do they have to rewrite history every time we get one of these things? I mean, is it that hard to reveal new things without altering old ones? I feel like I'm getting too old for this.
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Do they have to rewrite history every time we get one of these things? I mean, is it that hard to reveal new things without altering old ones? I feel like I'm getting too old for this.
I kinda feel the same way... I just play the games and just enjoy them for what they are. ^^;
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Right? It's our own fault for paying attention to the story in an action game. >w<
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I think Capcom is in love with retconning...
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X7 and X8 don´t add anything to the Zero´s storyline, that´s why they are not mentioned.
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X7 and X8 don´t add anything to the Zero´s storyline, that´s why they are not mentioned.
Hope so. MMX canon is already buggered up the arse...
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I'm not sure about X7, but I know in X8 the only story they really had for Zero was a flashback to X5 and the virus then...
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If ya ask me, i'll say to just wait it out. X4, X7, X8, and CM didn't really have maverick virus as a main focus.
Plus the X story is a bit open in small points of interpretation. Depending on one's imagination.
side: KH is complicated? I guess I must be [tornado fang]ing stupid to understand it lol.
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I don't think it's that complicated...
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What? and Axl???, model A is based on him D:
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SHH NO IT ISN'T IT'S MODEL ALBERT NOT MODEL AXL! *shot*
Yeah, I know...
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Hooray! I'm actually pretty okay with this whole idea. Don't get me wrong, I like the latter X games, but they really, REALLY made no sense and had nothing to do with the X/Zero series getting connected. Frankly I'm 100% fine with X's wimpy pacifist breakdown in X7 never happening, either.
Axl getting unborn is a nice bonus too. ;) But seriously, Axl is alright, but him never existing won't make me lose any sleep.
But yeah, I like this idea, I'm glad they're tring to tie everything together and make sense of this mess.
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Leave. Now. The Axl Defense Squad commands you!
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I see nothing in that text that disagrees with our current perception of the canon, which includes X7~8. It simply sums up the relevant points, with disregard of time passage. Take note that Light could have never finished X immediately following Rockman10. In that same vein, it's clear that Zero was not immediately discovered as the source of the Sigma Virus, following X6. This extra time is not taken into account in telling its story. And there's a lot of leeway here.
If Inti is ever to write a ZX summary, I'm sure the story of X7~XCM will be mentioned to introduce the origin of Albert's power.
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Doppler never existed because the text doesn´t mention him either
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I didn't see the text mention the X4 events either... or did I?
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Happened.
You may all continue.
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Okay... I was about to recheck the link...
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Oh [tornado fang] what have they done. someone stop them before they mess this [parasitic bomb] up further.
they HAD to make it that confusing eh.
Goddamnit. now we have to invest time in clearing idiots of suspicions that those games never happened an are 'just fanservice" like that one idiot said.
Thank you capcom!/Inti!/Whatever!
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FLAME SMASH!
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While the timeline doesn't necessarily invalidate post-X6 events, it does raise an eyebrow at the Nightmare being associated with Zero's research stasis. That's a heck of a bomb to drop, as X6 was very ambiguous and did not give any indication as to whether the sealing was related to the rest of the in-game events. To reconcile this with the full X-series, it means the topic of the Nightmare needs to get dug up again. Not terribly difficult, given how X8 references X5, but still, it'd be interesting to see how that happens.
I also find it fascinating that they've placed such a link, the Nightmare leading to Sigma Virus research leading to Cyber-Elves, considering the many correlations between the Nightmare and Cyber-Elves. The large scale control of Reploids by a single master, the manipulation of reality, the stable existence of a program object in the substance world free of any host, and the resulting vulnerability to substance world weaponry. These are all things that the Nightmare and Cyber-Elves share.
Anyway, X7-XCM doesn't really impact the Zero-series, short of Orbital Elevators. The definite bigger impact is on ZX, so what Zan said earlier seems to apply.
Firstly, taking these concepts at face value, Command Mission seems to be pushed to its own timeline unless that story itself was part of the Elf Wars. Zero's 50 year first sealing, the Elf Wars, as well as all of the X series incidents are now reported to fit into a 100 year period (all 1XX years ago). The only other option would be X1's back story taking place in circa 2155, and Command Mission being one of Zero's late adventures before his first sealing.
Is there any reason Cain cannot be using a computer program with 41 year old copyrights (which for some reason have not been renewed)? Because XCM could easily be early 22XX, with the Force Metal meteor having been identified in 2202.
The main issue as I see it is trying to reconcile the 1XX dates with Inticreate's self-expanded series gap. Due to Elf Wars, approximate timeframe from Zero's research-stasis to Zero-series is not 100 years but 150 years. Which means everything from Zero's birth to that point, including the entirety of the X-series, needs to be crammed into a less than 50 year window. While the year 2200 falls between XCM and the rest of the series, the actual time gap has not been stated. Nor has Inti, while telling us that everything we know is wrong, chosen to re-adopt the label of "22XX" for the Zero-series, which they otherwise would have been well reasonable in doing, in light of the timeframe estimates they've given. XCM may be the reason for that.
Placing the "200 year marker" between the birth of X and the birth of Zero was a really odd move, IMHO. Whether we're trying to account for X7-XCM (necessary for ZX Advent) or not, it really does seem to indicate that Wily-ghost was still building Zero very near the X-series. Otherwise, the birth of X and the birth of Zero should not be separated to such a degree.
Do they have to rewrite history every time we get one of these things? I mean, is it that hard to reveal new things without altering old ones? I feel like I'm getting too old for this.
I feel for you. This is getting ridiculous, and is the textbook example of why I wish Inticreates was relegated to the post-Zero-series era rather than commanding the MegaMan saga as a whole. It was popular fanon that the continuing X-series was the reason for the X-to-Zero series gap rewrite, but we know from MMZOCW that was not the case, it was in fact for Dark Elf. In other words, Inti rewrote their own backstory. Here, they did it again, extending as far back as the Classic series. And to what end? This isn't even a new game, it's a compilation. Granted, we don't know how much of this is them and how much is Inafune, but I just get this impression that Inti cannot stand by what has already been established.
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So Inti loves retconning then...
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Having gone over it again. I can say this with certainty; the majority of this new info really all coincides with what we already knew.
Relating Evil Energy/Roboenza to Sigma Virus and X's immunity is all fine and dandy. The details about Zero's mental state also heavily goes with established views on the difference between X4 Zero, X5 Zero and Omega. Zero's sealing as a result of X6 is all fine and dandy even with what X7~XCM established. I have no qualms with Mother Elf's origin, the change from Maverick Wars to Elf Wars, and I'm absolutely loving the new details on Project Elpis.
Where the entire text falls apart is only in two peculiar spots:
-1XX years ago Zero was made whereas X was made more than 200 years ago.
-Zero changed to good by the Sigma Virus.
The former could easily be a labeling error, or an actual plot point. If taken at face value, Wily's post mortum activities suddenly got even more interesting. I don't see it mattering that much toward XCM. Since no matter which answer we have to this issue, we wouldn't be trying to reach 20XX by time traveling 1XX years from ZERO anyway. Unless you really want to try with some generous XX values.
The latter has been a big point ever since RZOCW's original release. But this time without unfortunate implication toward X's worrying. It's quite controversial still, but I can see how it works out. The added explanation certainly helps.
All in all, I would take those two points with a grain of salt, but I think if we discuss to this we might come to some answers to age old mysteries. After all, both these controversial points have become innately tied by Inafune saying Wily was revived by the virus.
And before I forget, most of all, say bye bye to your Zero-Cataclysm theory, you Zero-Cataclysm fanboys!
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Hooray! I'm actually pretty okay with this whole idea. Don't get me wrong, I like the latter X games, but they really, REALLY made no sense and had nothing to do with the X/Zero series getting connected. Frankly I'm 100% fine with X's wimpy pacifist breakdown in X7 never happening, either.
Axl getting unborn is a nice bonus too.
Maybe if Zero didn't show up at the Highway, Axl would have been recaptured by Red Alert without any trouble, and subsequently used by Sigma. Then again, if X never retired, maybe Red Alert would never be founded, and Red would never have found Axl. It'd be fun to imagine what would have happened under changed circumstances. Still it's difficult for me to want to throw out all that history, even contradictory history.
I certainly think both options are worth considering, since it's been up to a certain level of interpretation from years ago, ever since the Perfect Memories book posed the initial question of when and how Zero's sealing actually takes place, and attempted no answer at all. What if how we'd always interpreted the X Compendium's "X6 > Zero seal?" thing as a questionable later event was actually meant to be an indicator for a branching timeline? Or for that "no matter how you continue the Mega Man series" Inti remark actually being in reference to the idea that 2 differing timeline branches were both headed for the same ultimate destination?
CM is probably the easiest to drop, since it's been called a gaiden in a few official places, was always a bit abrasive even to X8, and supposedly the director or someone made a remark that CM is to the X series as the Dragon Ball Z movies are to the tv shows.
Is there any reason Cain cannot be using a computer program with 41 year old copyrights (which for some reason have not been renewed)? Because XCM could easily be early 22XX, with the Force Metal meteor having been identified in 2202.
I don't have a problem with Cain's equipment being weirdly old, but I do wonder how long Light and Wily are living. Does Light seem 100 years old in the Day of Sigma? That'd be about what he'd need to be...
Granted, we don't know how much of this is them and how much is Inafune, but I just get this impression that Inti cannot stand by what has already been established.
Since this page is on Capcom's website, I'm placing the blame on both.
The former could easily be a labeling error, or an actual plot point. If taken at face value, Wily's post mortum activities suddenly got even more interesting.
Thinking back I felt like there was something somewhere that made it seem like Wily completed Zero before death, but I can't figure what if anything concrete led me to that impression. I guess I'll dig for it later.
For now, I was just thinking about how apparently the Big 4 must have never met X while he was physically alive, and while that might make sense as to why they followed Copy X so willingly, I'm a bit confused by how intimate a relationship they seem to share with the real one in the drama tracks. It seemed like they had more of a mutual history than that.
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I don't have a problem with Cain's equipment being weirdly old, but I do wonder how long Light and Wily are living. Does Light seem 100 years old in the Day of Sigma? That'd be about what he'd need to be...
Two things you could do, I suppose; take "100 years" from classic to X with a lot of leeway, or assume 200X was retconned by Rockman Rockman. Compendium of RockmanX states "approximately" and "about" 100 years, though. But, I seem to distinctly recall some mentions of it having to be "more than/at least" 100 years.
Thinking back I felt like there was something somewhere that made it seem like Wily completed Zero before death, but I can't figure what if anything concrete led me to that impression. I guess I'll dig for it later.
Like with the other reference, I think there was a recent statement in regards to the timeframe when Wily sealed Zero, but I can't remember where I would find such a quote.
For now, I was just thinking about how apparently the Big 4 must have never met X while he was physically alive, and while that might make sense as to why they followed Copy X so willingly, I'm a bit confused by how intimate a relationship they seem to share with the real one in the drama tracks. It seemed like they had more of a mutual history than that.
I know you hear this request a lot, but at the moment all people that can't read Japanese are kinda out of the loop. Would you be willing to supply us with translations of the relevant character biographies? From your posts, the facts contained therein seem quite interesting.
On the Big4 note, though, some rethinking of the "Shining Arms" is now in order. Much like the time placement of X's seal remains a constant point of question. That would make them very very young, and incapable of fighting in Elf Wars.
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Thanks for that idea, Zan. Which reminds me... I NEED TO LEARN JAPANESE!
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Thanks for that idea, Zan. Which reminds me... I NEED TO LEARN JAPANESE!
Or force Japan to learn English.
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I wouldn't mind doing translations (if Heat Man doesn't beat me to it), but I want to be accurate, and some of the kanji are quite tiny. On a related note, does anyone know how to rip the text from a flash page? I seriously hate the way that page is set up.
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Post a link, and one of the kanji-masters from here could translate it.
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I don't have a problem with Cain's equipment being weirdly old, but I do wonder how long Light and Wily are living. Does Light seem 100 years old in the Day of Sigma? That'd be about what he'd need to be...
On Light's age, you never know. A 20XX full of robotics is bound to make a few medical breakthroughs.
Either way, I think we have a lot more leeway there than we do elsewhere in the timeline. If you figure "approximately" 100 years, 10 or 20 in either direction could make a world of difference. We don't have a whole lot of extra events mucking up the relation between the two series, such as X-to-Zero. If X were sealed for, say, 120 years, it would still be "approximately" 100 years, and Light's age would be far less of an issue. I mean, he *IS* deteriorating over the course of X's construction, so he's probably getting up there.
CM is probably the easiest to drop, since it's been called a gaiden in a few official places, was always a bit abrasive even to X8, and supposedly the director or someone made a remark that CM is to the X series as the Dragon Ball Z movies are to the tv shows.
Even a DBZ movie can have a timeline impact (see Dead Zone > Garlic Jr. Saga). They just usually don't for the sake of convenience; the TV series events are tied so closely that there's more often than not no feasible place to fit the movie in (such as Tree of Might).
I would think that XCM, being a mainstream console game, is valid until proven otherwise. And nothing has done so. In fact, it establishes a precedent that carries into ZX Advent, that being the enhanced A-Trans. Furthermore, for as badly as Inticreates likes mucking up what we thought we knew, they also enjoy digging up obscure titles. I think they would actually be LESS likely to write off Command Mission than Capcom themselves would.
Thinking back I felt like there was something somewhere that made it seem like Wily completed Zero before death, but I can't figure what if anything concrete led me to that impression. I guess I'll dig for it later.
It's probably just popular notion of Zero being sealed to go after X, since that was the best rational explanation we had for Wily to not unleash him immediately. Now that's out the window, as is the notion that Zero was completed anywhere near the same time as X at all, unless that page was one hell of a typo.
For now, I was just thinking about how apparently the Big 4 must have never met X while he was physically alive, and while that might make sense as to why they followed Copy X so willingly, I'm a bit confused by how intimate a relationship they seem to share with the real one in the drama tracks. It seemed like they had more of a mutual history than that.
Having been born of X they probably feel a kinship with him regardless of whether or not they met the original, although it is rather confusing how only one part in five retains such a strong likeness to the original, as well as how the other four got their bodies and so forth. That sounds to me like a line that needs a LOT more explaining.
I will say this, though. It could definitely go a ways to explaining the Big Four's characters for them to have not met X during the Elf Wars. The expanded info on Project Elpizo seemingly validates Weil's actions during Elf Wars; it makes X out as one who actively and forcefully opposed extremist but official large-scale Maverick control. In other words, he did then exactly what Zero did during the Zero-series. It's no wonder the original backs the Resistance in such a case, but the Big Four are almost completely out of touch with that aspect of X's character. The only one who came remotely close was Harpuia.
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That, and since they were originally part of X himself, they feel the need to obey X. And since the true X, the fifth part of his soul that became the X that helps, wasn't really there, the Big Four followed Copy X. Maybe the reason they don't have that aspect is that the entire aspect was passed on to Cyber-elf X. That make sense?
Think about this. Fefnir got his aggression, Leviathan his femininity, Harpuia part of his sense of justice, and Phantom the... umm... SHADOW ARMOR!
That makes sense to me.
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I LOVE how they did this thing with Zero where he was sealed because Wily couldnt control him. I thought that was what the virus was for?
it DOES however, actually fit right in with X4's pre X1 maverick Zero. bloodthirsty monster with NO rational thought process at all. until headache.
strangely, it makes sense, but I do miss the idea that it was "just as planned" until "chance" had Sigma pwn Zero and switch sides with him.
Or even, the idea that it really wasnt just as planned. Yet. Zero was disturbed prematurely, and was not fully awakened under the virus in him. thus was what he was in the flashback. the "W" headache was actually something to do with that. maybe it was his system awakening or something? but Sigma punched him out. and he never awakened.
Or something like that.
Actually, it could be- going with this new thing, that thats the reason for the virus itself. To control the monstrous Zero which Wily himself could not keep under control. The virus would "awaken" him, and make him more like what we see in X5
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Ugh... such a difficult battle.
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They're just trying to make X7, X8, and Command Mission vague so they can figure out what they want to do with the series AND Axl.
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Axl, himself, really needs his own game. Where it explains what becomes of him somewhere between X8 and X9, or after XCM or X9.
If there's going to be a X9 (and I hope there is).
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That makes sense actually.
And Axl does need his own game. Axl needs more love.
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That's the only reason they're leaving out those games.
Not that ZX3 is confirmed or anything, this just gives them leeway to do what they want.
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I wouldn't mind doing translations (if Heat Man doesn't beat me to it), but I want to be accurate, and some of the kanji are quite tiny. On a related note, does anyone know how to rip the text from a flash page? I seriously hate the way that page is set up.
This help? (character profiles, since I assume the rest is already taken care of)
[spoiler]Zero
"「目の前に敵が現れたなら・・・、たたき斬るまでだ。」
かつてイラギュラー戦争で活躍し、英雄と呼ばれた伝説の紅きレプリロイド。シエルにより発見され100年の眠りから目覚めた。長年に及ぶ機能停止のため、目覚めたときは記憶が失われており、能力の覚醒にそれなりの時間を要した。妖精戦争末期には世界を恐怖に陥れたオメガと、それを操るバイルの野望を打ち砕いていおり、その因縁が新たな戦いの火種となる。"
Ciel
"「わたしにとっては、あなたはもうゼロなのよ」
ネオ・アルカディアでレプリロイドの研究をしていた人間の少女。姿を消したエックスの代わりとしてコピーエックスを作るが、エネルギー不足によるレプリロイドの処分に疑問を感じ、ネオ・アルカディアを離れる。その後はレジスタンスを組織してレプリロイドを守りながら、争いの元を解消する新エネルギーの開発に日々余念がない。シエルが使用しているバイザーは、かつてネオ・アルカディアでサイバーエルフの研究をしている時に使用していたもので、人間でありながらサイバーエルフを見たり、触れたりできる。"
Cyber Elf
"人間にとって未知のコンピュータ生命体。通常、レプリロイドの意志、意識、人格などを指す事が多い。様々な科学者の手によりレプリロイドの思考に関する研究が続けられているが、プログラムそのものではない「生命体で無い者の意志」については広く認知されている。サイバーエルフは不可視であるが、レプリロイドには見る(感じる)事ができるようだ。レプリロイドの思考プログラムに作用する未知のコンピュータウィルス「Σウィルス」の研究分野では、ウィルスが「意志」に作用する事が判明していおり、その「意志」をサイバーエルフと呼び、またその意志に働きかける事ができる存在(Σウィルス含む)も、サイバーエルフと呼称している。研究の成果はサイバーエルフによるレプリロイドの強化というレベルにまで達している。"
Alouette
"サイバーエルフの扱いに長けており、ゼロが入手したサイバーエルフの育成などに携わっている。ベビーエルフ、クリエとプリエの名付け親でもある。"
Cerveau
"新しい武器やチップの開発など、技術面でゼロをサポートするレプリロイド。つねにシエルとゼロのことを心配している"
Hirondelle
"レジスタンスベースを機転にさまざまな場所を旅しているため、各地の情勢に詳しいレプリロイド。趣味はポエムを作ること。"
Resistance Companions
"イレギュラーとして処分されそうになったところをシエルによって助けられたレプリロイドたちの集団。わずかなエネルギーを頼りに暮らしながら、同じような境遇のレプリロイドを救うために活動している。"
X
"「伝説の蒼き救世主」
エックス"
"「無限の可能性」「正しき行いをする者」の象徴としてネオ・アルカディアを統治していた伝説の青きレプリロイド。平和のため、同じレプリロイドを破壊することに悩みながら「イレギュラー戦争」を戦い続けたが、ゼロが眠りについたナイトメア事件の後も、それは変わらなかった。イレギュラー戦争末期(後に妖精戦争と呼ばれる)、エックスは、コピーボディを得たゼロの協力により、ダークエルフを捕獲、対ウィルス対策が整った自らのボディに封印する。ダークエルフを封印した際、その衝撃でエックスの魂はボディからはじき出され、5つのサイバーエルフに分裂。その内、4つはネオ・アルカディア四天王に組み込まれ、1つは世界を彷徨っている。"
Neo Arcadia
"妖精戦争当事、エックスより人間を保護するための組織として「ネオ・アルカディア」が結成された。エックス自ら英雄として君臨することでダークエルフを使わずにレプリロイドを「人望」で統制する事にも成功していた。妖精戦争に生き残った人類は、生活用の大型ドームの中で生活している状況であり、人間の生活圏はそのドームをおいて他にない。現在ネオ・アルカディアは政府の名称であるが、生活用ドームを指して、俗にネオ・アルカディアと呼ぶことがある。人間には代議員がおり、レプリロイドと協議してネオ・アルカディアの政策を行っている。"[/spoiler]
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Hey, it's Rodrigo! Nice going! Now for a translation!
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inb4 rock lobster
Or Tickle Buffalo.
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On Light's age, you never know. A 20XX full of robotics is bound to make a few medical breakthroughs.
Unless he had one of Cain's chairs in his dining room, I'm not expecting too much in the way of lifespan extension beyond our current norm. But, maybe. I certainly can't rule it out completely.
It's probably just popular notion of Zero being sealed to go after X, since that was the best rational explanation we had for Wily to not unleash him immediately. Now that's out the window, as is the notion that Zero was completed anywhere near the same time as X at all, unless that page was one hell of a typo.
I was thinking of a description along the lines of "Zero was the last creation of Dr. Wily's life" but maybe it was something I read at some online Japanese site. I kinda hope I never find it, since Wily being dead already answers why he always seems so ethereal whenever Zero remembers him. If he's been dead for as long as Zero's been alive... but I've already found several references in the Compendium approximated that Zero was sealed about 100 years ago like X was. If that's the case, Wily might as well still be alive. Then again, RPM said Wily most likely embedded the virus in Zero, and this current description disagrees with that too.
Actually, it could be- going with this new thing, that thats the reason for the virus itself. To control the monstrous Zero which Wily himself could not keep under control. The virus would "awaken" him, and make him more like what we see in X5
If that was what Wily was trying to do with the virus, he certainly missed the mark by a wide margin at first. According to the site Zero was damaged by Sigma before being infiltrated by the virus, so either Wily wasn't ready for its use in Zero yet and took some countermeasure to protect him from premature infection, or else Wily hadn't planned on using it on Zero at all, but after seeing what it did to him, figured that there could be some way to polarize his mind with it and thus pursued it throughout the X series.
This help? (character profiles, since I assume the rest is already taken care of)
You're always right there when I ask for ripped text... How do you do that, Shin?
No, seriously, I really want to know how you ripped that from there. PM me if you must. I'll start on the trans now.
edit: Trans is done, maybe not my best work but I'm too tired to proofread myself any more for now. This ought to do, anyway.
Zero
"If an enemy appears in front of me.... I will destroy it..."
(That's what MZOCW translated that line as)
Previously a major player in the Irregular Wars, the legendary red repliroid who was praised as a great hero.
He was discovered and awoken from a 100 year slumber by Ciel.
Because of the long years he spent out of commission, he suffered some memory loss when he woke up, and even his abilities needed time to reawaken.
In the closing period of the Elf Wars, he crushed Omega who held the world in a grip of fear, along with his master Vile's cruel ambition, but this would ultimately lead the way to a new battle.
Ciel
"To me, you are Zero."
A human young lady who performed repliroid research in Neo Arcadia.
She created Copy X to help compensate for X's disappearance, but she had misgivings when reploids started being disposed of due to the energy shortage and she left Neo Arcadia.
After that she organized the Resistance to protect the repliroids, and meanwhile worked tirelessly every day to develop a new energy source to help end the conflict.
The visor that Ciel uses were kept from her time in Neo Acadia studying Cyber Elves, allowing her to see and come in contact with Cyber Elves despite her being a human.
Cyber Elf
A computer life form generally unknown to humans.
Commonly referring to a repliroid's will, consciousness, personality, etc.
While many scientists continue to study the repliroid mind for answers, the current concept is generally acknowledged as not a program itself but the "volition of a bodiless life form."
Though cyber elves are invisible, repliroids are able to see (or sense) them.
In the field of research focused on the activity of the mysterious computer virus the "Sigma Virus" on the repliroid thought program, it was proven that the virus possessed an effect of "volition."
That "volition" became known as a Cyber Elf, and additionally any such volition that had the ability to influence things in a similar manner (Sigma Virus included) became designated Cyber Elves.
The study resulted in reached the level where it became possible to strengthen a repliroid by means of a cyber elf.
(...That was a difficult trans, too many abstract concepts.)
Alouette
A skilled Cyber Elf caregiver, she helps the cyber elves Zero obtains to grow to their potential.
She named Crea and Prea herself.
Cerveau
A repliroid who provides Zero with technical support by developing all sorts of new weapons and chips.
He always tries to look after Ciel and Zero.
Hirondelle
A quick-witted traveler residing at the Resistance Base, he has lots of info on various locations he's visited.
As a hobby he also writes poetry.
Resistance Companions
A group of repliroids who were condemned to be disposed of as irregulars, but were rescued by Ciel.
Even though they're trying to live on short rations of energy, they extend their help to all repliroids facing similar circumstances.
"The Legendary Blue Messiah" X
The legendary blue repliroid and ruler of Neo Arcadia who symbolizes "infinite potential" and a "purveyor of justice" for all.
Though he had done so for the sake of peace, he often worried over having to destroy his fellow repliroids during the long confrontations of the "Irregular Wars", a condition which went mostly unchanged even after Zero went to sleep following the Nightmare Incident.
In the closing period of the Irregular Wars (later referred to as the Elf Wars), X cooperated with Zero who had acquired a copy body, to capture the Dark Elf, and arranged to use his anti-virus countermeasure to seal her within his own body.
When he sealed the Dark Elf, the shock forced X's soul from his body and split it into 5 cyber elves.
Eventually, 4 of these souls were incorporated into the Shitennou of Neo Arcadia, while one continued to wander the earth.
Neo Arcadia
Concerned over the Elf Wars, X formed the "Neo Arcadia" organization for the sake of providing protection for the humans.
X himself was a great man who rather than exercising control by using the Dark Elf, he successfully used his "reputation" to invoke order.
The remnants of mankind who survived the Elf Wars were able to continue living within an enormous dome, but outside the dome the conditions were unsuitable to support human life.
Nowadays Neo Arcadia is the name of the government, although the life-sustaining dome itself is commonly referred to as Neo Arcadia as well.
Humans representatives consult with repliroids to carry out Neo Arcadian policy.
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X sealed the Dark Elf into his body and as a result his DNA-Soul splitted into 5 ones?
That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. X should have stayed as a whole instead to become a fragile one like from the Harry Potter roman the character Voldemort. Crippled souls are bad.
With this Model X had never his true power from the beginning, hence his DNA-Soul was crippled thanks to the Dark Elf.
As for the four Guardians, they are crippled too.
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It would explain why X wasn´t of a bigger help in the games...
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This is inti writing this stuff right?
Something tells me they are committing the mistake that really shouldnt be committed by them. They seem to place Zero's seal right after X6. Oh God. What an elementary mistake.
Also, whats this about X splitting into 5? :\
jeez. Suddenly, everything's a mess now.
Inti, please just stay as Zero/ZX writers please. dont dabble into the X series, OR classic series. let CAPCOM handle those.
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And before I forget, most of all, say bye bye to your Zero-Cataclysm theory, you Zero-Cataclysm fanboys!
Well, it doesn't actually say he wasn't activated before being judged too uncontrollable, so we're still relying on Word of God outright saying the event didn't happen.
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I LOVE how they did this thing with Zero where he was sealed because Wily couldnt control him. I thought that was what the virus was for?
This falls into Zan's theories on justifying the "virus turning Zero good" shpiel, seemingly one of the most outrageous thing that Inti could retain from the 3 Keys. Taken at face value it seemingly contradicts X5. But if the virus was intended to curb Zero's aggression, then Zan suggested that Hunter Zero may be the result of its work being incomplete; the bloodlust is gone but no allegiance has been established.
A major issue surrounding Zero and the virus, is the fact that according to this timeline it is damage which Zero sustained in the Sigma battle that infected him in the first place, despite the fact that the virus came from Zero's capsule. In other words, the virus, though contained in Zero's capsule, did not infect Zero then. So, what does that mean?
One possibility is that, Sigma having landed three blows (kick, throw to ceiling, head punch), that one of the earlier two cause a crack somewhere allowing the infection, while the W-headache-punch interrupted it. But my issue with that is why the infection would not have continued to run its course while Zero was unconscious.
My other thought is that perhaps the X1 body was never intended to awaken at all. If the virus is in fact key to curbing Zero's initial aggression, and if that was in fact Wily's intention all along, then the X1 body may have been a test subject. A precaution by Wily to make sure that, in the event of a failure, he didn't wind up with the power of X5 Awakened Zero with X4 flashback's attitude. This carries the implication that X1 Zero's control chip was intended to be removed all along, and its "miraculous" survival may not have been entirely coincidence. It would explain how Zero got killed in a rather ordinary battle, something which in X6 Isoc considers beneath him. Would also justify Power Fighters' specs, and the "mixed" specs we see in X5's intro (X3 buster pasted over X1 body).
Posted on: April 10, 2010, 08:48:43 AM
Something tells me they are committing the mistake that really shouldnt be committed by them. They seem to place Zero's seal right after X6. Oh God. What an elementary mistake.
I can see this is going to be our biggest bit of fanon to contend with for years to come. No, they did not say that. They said that the Nightmare incident was key to understanding Zero as a carrier of the virus. There is information in the events of the Nightmare incident that are not known to our heroes, namely Gate's infection, and the means by which his Zero research tied into Sigma's revival. There is no reason these things, which implicate Zero independent of Gate's tampering, cannot come to light at a later point in time, similar to how X8 dug up memories of X5's virus incident.
Posted on: April 10, 2010, 08:52:36 AM
Unless he had one of Cain's chairs in his dining room, I'm not expecting too much in the way of lifespan extension beyond our current norm. But, maybe. I certainly can't rule it out completely.
Age of 100 isn't all that far beyond our current norm, though. I mean, it's exceptional, but it does happen in the real world from time to time. It's less a matter of him being simply alive (Cain's goal) and more a matter of him not being completely invalid. He is pushing his limits, though, since by the time he finishes X and writes up his video to the future, he's clearly going downhill.
Also, to the best of my knowledge, we have no real statement as to Cain's age at any point in the timeline, do we?
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edit: Trans is done, maybe not my best work but I'm too tired to proofread myself any more for now. This ought to do, anyway.
Very much thanks for the translation, Marshmallow Man! There are a couple of points where you should read it over again, though...
"he crushed Omega held the world in a grip of fear"
"she takes helps the cyber elves"
And a few other such cases. Still, very much appreciated!
"The Legendary Blue Messiah" X
The legendary blue repliroid and ruler of Neo Arcadia who symbolizes "infinite potential" and a "purveyor of justice" for all.
Though he had done so for the sake of peace, he often worried over having to destroy his fellow repliroids during the long confrontations of the "Irregular Wars", a condition which went mostly unchanged even after Zero went to sleep following the Nightmare Incident.
In the closing period of the Irregular Wars (later referred to as the Elf Wars), X cooperated with Zero who had acquired a copy body to capture the Dark Elf, and arranged to use his anti-virus countermeasure to seal her within his own body.
When he sealed the Dark Elf, the shock forced X's soul from his body and split it into 5 cyber elves. Eventually, 4 of these souls were incorporated into the Shitennou of Neo Arcadia, while one continued to wander the earth.
I think this profile requires some reevaluation of the profiles from RTRZ, particularly the Big4's. Things like their reasons for creation, and Phantom's unit being "X's personal safeguards" being of high note.
Speaking of RTRZ... sorry if this sounds greedy... But you translated the Big4 profiles before, but never got around to Zero's and Ciel's. It'd be nice if you could translate those too. In trying to reconcile all this new stuff, I feel it might be best if we had more comprehensive translated resources at our disposal.
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Clearly, I was indeed too tired to proofread my work. I'll try to fix it up in a bit.
If Copy X is only 5 years old in Z1, and all references to the Big 4's working with X were actually with Copy X... they really would be pretty new. Although it's longer than a single US presidential term, so a lot can certainly happen in that time to make them experienced. Sigma was only a few years old when he became the world famous leader of the Hunters, I guess it doesn't take that long to become legendary in their fast paced future world.
I did translate Zero's RTRZ bio a while ago, I thought I posted it here, but I'll do it again.
Zero
Back in the times of the Irregular Wars, when the units known as the "Irregular Hunters" still existed, there lived a repliroid who was infamous far and wide. With a body of red and flowing hair of gold, he cut down his enemies with a blade of light. His very name struck fear into Irregulars... that name was "Zero." The sleeping legend of the "historic ruins." She saw it before her very eyes, the body of red, the hair of gold. But when "He" awakened from his slumber, He was a man without memory. He did not know his own name, He did not know his own purpose. He simply, had to be. An instinct for battle, a heart of justice. Once He held the blade of light in his hands, the legend was reborn.
I don't think I ever did Ciel's profile though. My CDs are boxed up somewhere. I don't suppose Rodrigo has the text for that one shifting around in his bottomless pockets...?
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Something tells me they are committing the mistake that really shouldnt be committed by them. They seem to place Zero's seal right after X6. Oh God. What an elementary mistake.
Actually...if ya reread that, the wording goes, "In finding this" before mention of Zero being sealed. Usually for such wording, a good amount of time can pass by. So it's not an entirely big mistake there.
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X's bio also mentions Zero leaving after the Nightmare Incident, but of course to that I say, "how long after?"
The issue of branching timelines definitely needs to be addressed the next time we get to ask Inafune questions. But who am I kidding, they'll just ask when (insert game) is coming out and what his favorite (insert whatever) is, again and again and again.
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And why we can't just wait for the english release and play it ourselves ?
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So X sealed the Dark Elf in his body... Reminds me of how in EXE6 Megaman seals the Cybeast in his body... hmmm....
Regardless, thanks for the translation.
ALSO: DJKLZONEZ'S SIGNATURE EXPLAINS ALL! INTI DIVIDED BY ZERO! *shot*
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And why we can't just wait for the english release and play it ourselves ?
Because it has nothing to do with the info being on their official site now?
I did translate Zero's RTRZ bio a while ago, I thought I posted it here, but I'll do it again.
Maybe I missed it... Thanks.
I don't think I ever did Ciel's profile though. My CDs are boxed up somewhere. I don't suppose Rodrigo has the text for that one shifting around in his bottomless pockets...?
(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/325/rtrzciel.png)
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Well, it doesn't actually say he wasn't activated before being judged too uncontrollable, so we're still relying on Word of God outright saying the event didn't happen.
Good point; why couldn't I interpret it as meaning that Dr. Wily decided Zero was too uncontrollable because he caused too many cataclysms? [eyebrow]
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Sorry, but birth of Zero is 1XX years ago. The wrong century to cause the cataclysm.
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This is why I like Zan. Always full of MM knowledge.
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Sorry, but birth of Zero is 1XX years ago. The wrong century to cause the cataclysm.
So it happened a little late...
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Actually...if ya reread that, the wording goes, "In finding this" before mention of Zero being sealed. Usually for such wording, a good amount of time can pass by. So it's not an entirely big mistake there.
Normal people wouldn't get that from the wording. Actually, im sure if all of that were worded much better, it would all make a heck of a lot more sense.
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Bag... there was no cataclysm. Inafune confirmed it. Keep this up and you might be INAFUNE PAUNCHED!
Anyone still got that pic?
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Bag... there was no cataclysm. Inafune confirmed it. Keep this up and you might be INAFUNE PAUNCHED!
Anyone still got that pic?
Hes just doing it for the sake of arguing.
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Ugh... I hate arguing for the sake of arguing. It's stupid, redundant, annoying, stupid, and redundant.
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If you read the article, it doesn't say anything about retconning X7-8 and Command Mission, it just doesn't talk about them. They weren't critical moments for Zero, so they weren't significant to the Zero series, they were just another chapter in the X series.
It took long enough to bash this rumor down the first time (back when that supposed retcon included X6 as well) and it doesn't need to be started again. Considering that Capcom goes out of their way to reference as much of Megaman as possible including even Battle & Chase, I don't think they're going to go around removing things from the timeline. Especially if they want any of the same talent working for them again. It's a bad business move to attempt to undo someone's work.
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Yet they way they wrote this makes all of that seem just like what is being said. ESPECIALLY the sealing. they really make it sound, to any ol' joe, like the sealing happened right after X6 when the government "finds out he was the source as a carrier of the virus"
what that needs, is a proper rewriting.
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Starting to sound more and more like X6 Sealed Zero is going to wind up being Omega, but Zero copied himself to another body to help out afterwards.
Maybe. I dunno.
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Does this mean I can imagine I never played X7?
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'Fraid not, kiddo. This doesn't affect our memories, unfortunately.
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Starting to sound more and more like X6 Sealed Zero is going to wind up being Omega, but Zero copied himself to another body to help out afterwards.
Maybe. I dunno.
X6 seal Zero is the first seal. Meaning, that Zero DID become Omega. Thats nothing new.
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I still find it funny that people are still surprised when Capcom/Inti shows that they're just making it up as they go along. They're trying to make it be more sensical, but are clearly doing quite the opposite.
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So it happened a little late...
Sorry, but an uncontrollable Zero can't be ordered to cause the cataclysm against a non-existent enemy.
Normal people wouldn't get that from the wording. Actually, im sure if all of that were worded much better, it would all make a heck of a lot more sense.
I still find it funny that people are still surprised when Capcom/Inti shows that they're just making it up as they go along. They're trying to make it be more sensical, but are clearly doing quite the opposite.
I honestly don't see how this all doesn't make sense. They solved all the big issues in the timeline with this summary.
what that needs, is a proper rewriting.
More like, it needs fans that don't try to disown games whenever they get the chance.
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More like, it needs fans that don't try to disown games whenever they get the chance.
Thank you Zan. That needed to be said.
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But seriously, the way they write the part with the nightmare and Zero sealing, they make it sound like they are two consecutive events, one after the other. :\
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But seriously, the way they write the part with the nightmare and Zero sealing, they make it sound like they are two consecutive events, one after the other.
They also wrote X was created immediately following Rockman8 or Rockman10. We know that ain't true. But it does get the point across of cause and effect. With Zero's sealing it simply means the Nightmare Incident was the reason for it. The sealing will happen whenever the truth about that incident is revealed to the world.
Besides, even IF Zero did seal himself away immediately following the Nightmare Incident, that does not stop the current story arc from making a major revelation about the Zero we're playing as. For all we know we've been playing as the copy for a while now.
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(http://home.comcast.net/~Anguirus/objection.gif)
In light of MMZOCW's timeline, that can only be true if said revelation explains where Weil and Cyber-Elves have been since X6, very hard to do given that the Elf Wars are supposed to be named for Cyber-Elf abuse yet unseen. Furthermore, it's exceedingly bad storytelling to write in a 50 year disappearance that X7 does not acknowledge.
Also, though not impossible, it'd be inconvenient to reconcile such a thing with Omega's arsenal. It would mean that Weil has a lot of copying to do himself over the course of Z3 (Buster Shot, chargeable Z-Saber), and by what rationale he'd be trying to imitate the "cheap fake" is anyone's guess.
Yet they way they wrote this makes all of that seem just like what is being said. ESPECIALLY the sealing. they really make it sound, to any ol' joe, like the sealing happened right after X6 when the government "finds out he was the source as a carrier of the virus"
Actually, the opposite is true. That Zero is a carrier of the virus was not revealed in X6, therefore, the seal cannot immediately follow it. X6 never revealed that Zero was a carrier, it revealed that Zero is exploitable. That's two very different things, and that Zero is exploitable was already established both in X2 and, to a lesser degree, X5 (even if Zero never awakens, the Hunters do notice his viral reaction, X included). It was not revealed to our heroes that the "piece of Zero" that Gate was working with had already contained viral data, or even Sigma's (which it did, as the sourcebooks tell us; it was key to Sigma's revival). The Nightmare, as far as the Hunters were ever told, was a Zero derivative, and that's it. Sigma Virus was not part of the equation, as far as they were aware.
What this says is that the Nightmare incident bears future discussion at some point in the X-series timeline. It's that simple. It's something X8 already did with X5's Zero Virus. And it's not all that inconceivable with the current story arc, either. Though Sigma is (allegedly) out of the picture, some New-Gens retain interest in Zero, as shown by Bamboo Pandamonium.
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To make that issue even shadier, they're emphasizing that X's capsule was opened before the 30 years.
And since every reploid was created off X as a template, they all have what I assume is the same "can decide to go Maverick" vulnerability.
Which is what I used to think was going through X's mind at the beginning of X7, back when it came out.
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Actually, X's capsule was opened considerably long after the 30 years were up. X was born "2XX years ago". Zero was born "1XX years ago".
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In light of MMZOCW's timeline, that can only be true if said revelation explains where Weil and Cyber-Elves have been since X6, very hard to do given that the Elf Wars are supposed to be named for Cyber-Elf abuse yet unseen.
I was thinking XCM, rather than X7~8. In which a long uncertain time has passed and is thus more in jeopardy in relation to this summary. Sure, it takes MMOZCW's "Zero awakens in a copy body" statement very loosely, but I don't see why Zero can't be fighting in a new body whilst the studied on his original body continue to lead toward Cyber Elves, or this Zero being another copy without the original mind. Ideas like that are quite out there, yes I know. But it's something to keep in mind whenever subsequent X-series title write themselves into a corner that will once again bring forth this same discussion. For all people claiming Inti is supposedly retconning the X-series, the X-series retconning Inti isn't out of the question.
As for Dr. Vile. In a post sealing time, we'd have that question regardless. Given Dr. Vile's age at the time of Elf Wars, he could very well already be around. There simply isn't focus on the non-combatants. Just look at how little we even know of that one Repliroid that sealed Zero away. Perhaps these characters will finally be introduced through the New Generation plotline.
Actually, X's capsule was opened considerably long after the 30 years were up. X was born "2XX years ago". Zero was born "1XX years ago".
Not to mention the "approximately 100 years" in all X-series sources combined with "all indicators are green, it should be safe to open."
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So basically, even though the website doesn't mention X7, X8, or Command Mission, you're saying that certain story elements from those three games are still vital to the continuity of the series as a whole. Right?
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As long as they don´t retcon or discard them, they will be part of the timeline. It was just somewhat cruel to not mention them.
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I suppose, as Inti saw it, they weren't as relevant to the rest of the series as we feel they should've been.
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I still say they could have worded it a bit better as to not make some people think theya re retconning them out. but thats just me, I have a very crazy english teacher.
Who only lets us write in one tense at a time. >.>;
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Your crazy English teacher is not our problem.
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Ciel / Character Voice by Rie Tanaka
She knew. The pain that lied in the hearts of repliroids. She knew. The thoughtless cruelty of the humans. Even though she was a scientist, her words did not reach Neo Arcadia, and the repliroids were disposed of day after day on unreasonable charges. To convey her message, she had to leave Neo Arcadia. Out there they lived their lives together without the roles of humans and repliroids, but simply as true friends. However, those days were not long to last. The screams of Neo Arcadia's gunfire pressed ever closer, in the name of a self-righteous justice. For the sake of everyone who believed in her, she had to take up arms. She was not experienced in the role of a leader. She researched ways for them to obtain the provisions they needed to survive. But things seemed as a dark and infinite tunnel with no escape in sight. She asked an electronic elf, "Is there hope for us anywhere?" She felt the elf's whisper echo in her heart. She knew she must investigate the "historic ruins."
Actually, the opposite is true. That Zero is a carrier of the virus was not revealed in X6, therefore, the seal cannot immediately follow it.
The Hunters knew Zero was infected with the Sigma Virus during X5, and at that same time they recognized that while he did not register a "Maverick reading" his power output grew in response. That itself was enough to lead Signas to believe Zero had the virus antibodies inside him, and that itself would be reason enough for the governing humans to want to have him decommissioned and dissected. We saw Signas order this information be kept secret, but some Lifesavers shared that info with X, and who knows who else. And that's all before Isoc announced to the entire world that some ghost of Zero was responsible for spreading the Nightmare virus. Already there was ample reason to want to have him studied, but the situation seemed all but forgotten when X7 came around. Perhaps the Hunters reasoned incorrectly that Zero wasn't really spreading the virus, or perhaps didn't have the manpower to spare him because of X's bout of pacifism to allow him to be sealed. But the X7 story didn't directly address the question of Zero's virus connection or the Hunters' understanding of it, so their government's official resolution to it all is unclear. So saying, a spit timeline theory might go that X7 goes down a path where the government didn't decide to have Zero sealed, while the Zero series follows one where they did.
I still say they could have worded it a bit better as to not make some people think theya re retconning them out.
The thing is, maybe they are. When we hear some of these new statements that just don't mesh or outright contradict with what we were told before an thought we knew, we try to twist the wording to make them fit with our current understanding. When RZOCW came out and MMN (or was it Heat Man?) translated the three keys, and things like the virus turning Zero good, everyone said there's no way that what was written there was what they could have meant, it must have been poorly worded, or poorly translated. But it wasn't--that was literally what Inti meant to convey, and it is conveyed here again.
So instead of just repeating that process of "that can't be what they really meant," and trying to find loopholes by which to hold on to our old conceptions as cataclysm fans have been doing for over a decade, I would rather acknowledge that maybe the wording sounds so much like Zero sealed himself after X6 because that is exactly what they are trying to say. The only thing that can settle this (or make things even more confusing) is for us to receive more information.
So basically, even though the website doesn't mention X7, X8, or Command Mission, you're saying that certain story elements from those three games are still vital to the continuity of the series as a whole. Right?
I don't think there's anything in either of those 3 games that would render the Zero or ZX series nonsensical with their absence from the timeline. Orbital elevators? They never said it was specifically one of the ones we were familiar with, nor is there any reason that orbital elevators can't still be built without happening the way it did in X8. Wily's built one already, for starters. Copy chip technology? Perhaps it was still invented, but Cyber Elf technology overshadowed it as a fad (no need to make virus resistant copy chips with Mother Elf around), or perhaps Albert himself invented it. Model A being based Axl? They never said it was. Albert could have designed it himself. Alternately, maybe Axl did still exist and Albert based a biometal on him, but his role in history was overshadowed by X and Zero's roles in the Elf Wars (perhaps why we've never heard his legend spoken of in the Z series on). There are ample possibilities.
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She asked an electronic elf, "Is there hope for us anywhere?" She felt the elf's whisper echo in her heart. She knew she must investigate the "historic ruins."
So, what does Passy know about Zero?
When RZOCW came out and MMN (or was it Heat Man?) translated the three keys, and things like the virus turning Zero good, everyone said there's no way that what was written there was what they could have meant, it must have been poorly worded, or poorly translated. But it wasn't--that was literally what Inti meant to convey, and it is conveyed here again.
But Right didn't make the virus!
he only thing that can settle this (or make things even more confusing) is for us to receive more information.
What about the statement in RPM about X7 and being in the ZERO-series?
I would rather acknowledge that maybe the wording sounds so much like Zero sealed himself after X6 because that is exactly what they are trying to say.
Meaning X was created immediately after Rockman10, despite Dr. Right's age? Meaning Zero was made 1XX years before the ZERO-series?
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So, what does Passy know about Zero?
Got me. They don't mention how Ciel and Passy met, either. Maybe Passy has been around since the Elf Wars and literally remembers Zero. Or maybe she just heard the legend and thought it their best hope.
But Right didn't make the virus!
Thank goodness. But does that mean Inti didn't consider making it so?
What about the statement in RPM about X7 and being in the ZERO-series?
Then this would finally be the answer to the question that the RPM book posed.
There's a ton of what abouts. What about the statements that said Sigma got the Virus directly from Zero? That Wily inserted the virus into Zero, and that Zero was initially the only one infected? What about Zero being a robot like X sealed 100 years ago? How old was Ciel when she built Copy X, and how did the Big 3 die? A retcon is a retcon.
eaning X was created immediately after Rockman10, despite Dr. Right's age? Meaning Zero was made 1XX years before the ZERO-series?
Maybe.
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I honestly don't see how this all doesn't make sense. They solved all the big issues in the timeline with this summary.
If that was true, there wouldn't be any confusion and "what about". At base value, people have to scramble around to make sense of it. There really shouldn't be a need to make sense of it to this degree. I speak not for myself, but the many others in this thread that are visibly confused and/or trying to figure out an explanation for some of the new tidbits that were given. Truth is, they'll change things wherever they see fit to change it. I stopped caring about these shenanigans right around the whole "Dr. Light made the virus" fiasco that so many people (including yourself, I do believe) spread around. That didn't turn out to be true, but it gives a good example of how quickly the perception of how the storyline works can change. The way I see it, it'll change again at some point, no matter how small the detail it may be. All these extra things we don't see happen in games are strongly subject to change, so I find it better just to focus on the stuff in the games themselves.
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I am way too lazy to see every post so is this a retcon or what? :\
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I am way too lazy to see every post so is this a retcon or what? :\
We just dont know. it could be
A). a massive retconning of information,
or
B). very bad wording/writing.
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I pic the third secret option to fight against Bahamut
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That didn't turn out to be true, but it gives a good example of how quickly the perception of how the storyline works can change. The way I see it, it'll change again at some point, no matter how small the detail it may be.
And that's why I keep batting the Cataclysm around. At one time, it made a lot of sense to a lot of people. Even as new games and other materials come out, those people are going to see the new story through the lens of the Cataclysm and make it make sense in that regard. If we want it to really be disproven, we need a game that shows the creation of Zero outright and what Dr. Wily first did with him rather than all this "and then a century later" murkiness.
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I pic the third secret option to fight against Bahamut
Nice FF8 reference there!
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Rodrigo Shin awesomely pulled the text from the Zero Collection site, and found the not-yet-opened story sections for Zero 1-4. I'm not sure there's too much new information to be found there, but I translated it nonetheless. I had forgotten some of the details surrounding these games, so it was a good refresher.
レプリロイドを凶暴化させるΣウィルスの発生が発端となり、
長きに渡って繰り広げられた「イレギュラー戦争」。
その永遠に続くかと思われた戦いも、
ついにはひとりの英雄「エックス」の活躍によって終わりを告げ、
世界は復興の道を歩み始めた。
人間が幸せに生活することができるユートピアをめざし
再生の拠点として築き上げられた都市「ネオ・アルカディア」。
人々はようやく笑顔を取り戻せるかに見えたが…
しかしそこはレプリロイドのイレギュラー化を恐れる政府が、
不当な理由で次々とレプリロイド達を逮捕し処分していったからだ。
運良く処分を逃れたレプリロイド達は半壊した旧都市に隠れ、
そこに残るわずかなエネルギーを見つけ出し細々と暮らしていた。
そんな彼らと一緒に暮らす、科学者の少女「シエル」。
レプリロイドの開発に携わっていた彼女は、
政府によりイレギュラーの汚名を着せられ
処分される彼らを放っておけなかったのだ。
ささやかに生きていたそんな彼らにも、ついに政府の魔の手が迫る。
追い詰められるレプリロイド達。
このままでは、みんな死んでしまう。
シエルは、ある場所に今も眠っている
伝説のレプリロイド「ゼロ」の名を思い出した。
Zero 1 Story
The interminable conflict known as the "Irregular Wars" began with the Sigma Virus outbreak that caused repliroids to act violently.
The seemingly never-ending battle finally concluded thanks to the efforts of the lone hero "X", and the world began to walk the road to recovery.
The established center of this renaissance that sought to create a utopia where mankind could live in happiness became the city of "Neo Arcadia".
At last the humans were finally starting to smile once again... However, the government which feared the possibility for repliroids to turn irregular gradually began arresting and disposing of more and more repliroids on unreasonable charges. Some fortunate repliroids escaped being disposed of and hid themselves in the partially destroyed old city, where they discovered some remaining energy resources and establish a meager existence for themselves. Among that group clinging to life was a young female scientist named "Ciel".
She had been working on repliroid development, but she simply could not turn her back upon those who would be disposed for being labelled irregular by the government. They were able to make a modest living for a time, until finally the government's wicked influence came bearing down on them. The repliroids were driven into a corner. With the current state of things, it seemed every one of them would perish.
Ciel remembered a certain place where a legendary repliroid by the name of "Zero" was said to be sleeping even now.
シエルによって復活したゼロの活躍で、
ネオ・アルカディアを統治していたコピーエックスは倒された。
全滅の危機にさらされていたしシエルとレジスタンス達は、
その期を逃さず脱出し、ネオ・アルカディアの力が及ばない土地への逃亡を図る。
ゼロは、シエル達を逃すため、自らを囮とし、ネオ・アルカディアを引き付けた。
その甲斐あって、シエルや、レジスタンスの仲間達は、
ネオ・アルカディアの追求を逃れることができ、
体制を立て直すことができたが・・・
ゼロとは、離れ離れとなってしまった。
あれから一年・・・ゼロのことを心配しつつも、
シエルは、仲間を守るために懸命に働き、
ついに、新しいレジスタンスベースを建設するまでにいたる。
しかし、そのころゼロは・・
Zero 2 Story
After being revived by Ciel, Zero was able to defeat Copy X who had ruled over Neo Arcadia. Ciel and the Resistance had come too close to annihilation, and made plans to escape to a place where Neo Arcadia's power didn't reach.
To help Ciel and the others get away safely, Zero set out by himself, acting as a diversion to distract Neo Arcadia's attention. His gambit worked, and Ciel and the Resistance managed to escape Neo Arcadia's pursuit and reorganize their entire outfit, however...
They had become completely separated from Zero.
A year later... Though her concern for Zero had never diminished, Ciel had buried herself in her work of helping protect her comrades, and at last, the construction of the new Resistance Base was well underway.
But meanwhile, Zero was...
ダークエルフの悪夢も去り、
ネオ・アルカディアからの攻撃も沈静化してきたある日、
レジスタンスのもとに巨大な戦艦が雪原に落ちたという情報が入る。
その現場にダークエルフと同じ強力なエネルギー反応があると知ったシエルは、
ゼロとレジスタンスの仲間と共に調査に向かっていた。
一方、ネオ・アルカディアでは、
統治の象徴であったエックス（コピー）がゼロにより討たれた際、
人間の動揺を恐れ、その事実は隠された。
表向きは何も変わらぬ平和のまま、
エックスの代行をハルピュイアが務め、
実際の指揮を執っていたのだが・・・
新たに現れた謎の敵バイルとその８人の部下「バイル八審官ーバイル・ナンバーズ」
彼らは通常人間の姿を取り、エックス復活後新たに措かれた
「ネオ・アルカディア中央評議会」の理事として、
バイルを補佐している。
だが、それはあくまで仮の姿。
バイルに歯向かった者だけが、その真の姿を知ることになる・・・
Zero 3 Story
One day after the nightmare of the Dark Elf had passed, and even the attacks from Neo Arcadia had calmed, the Resistance obtained information that that a giant battleship had crashed into the snowfields.
Ciel learned that an enormous energy reading similar to the Dark Elf's was traced to the scene, and set out with Zero and her Resistance allies to investigate.
Meanwhile, in Neo Arcadia, the news that the symbolic ruler X (the Copy) had been slain by Zero had been concealed to avoid a panic by the humans.
By all outward appearances, all was peaceful and nothing had changed, Harpuia had taken on the duty of acting on X's behalf to ensure that the status quo was maintained, but...
X's revival marked the new arrival of the mysterious enemy Vile and his 8 subordinates, the "Vile Hachishinkan (Vile 8 Judges) - Vile Numbers", who appeared in the guise of ordinary humans and were appointed to the new advisory board the "Neo Arcadia Central Council" by Vile's suggestion.
But their appearances are merely skin deep.
Only those who defy Vile learn the true nature of their bodies...
バイルによる圧政でネオ・アルカディアは混乱状態に陥った。
自分に逆らうものを許さないバイルは、
さらに戦闘部隊を強化して治安にあたらせる。
人間とレプリロイドは、バイルの支配を受け入れるか、
荒野に逃げ出すかを選ばなければならなかった。
ゼロ達は、荒野に逃げ延びた人々やレプリロイドを、
ネオ・アルカディアからすくうため、
各地で戦闘を続けいていた。
ある時レプリロイドに襲われていたキャラバンを助ける。
キャラバンのリーダー、ネージュは
エリア・ゼロにある人間だけの集落を目指していることを語る。
そのころネオ・アルカディアは新たな作戦を実行に移そうとしていた・・・・・・
Zero 4 Story
Due to Vile's tyrannical rule, Neo Arcadia collapsed into a total state of confusion. Vile permitted no one to disobey him, and strengthened the armed forces in order to maintain public order.
Humans and repliroids faced a choice between accepting Vile's complete rule or chancing an escape to the wastelands.
Zero's group set out to aid the humans and repliroids who attempted to flee from Neo Arcadia to the wastelands, and subsequently fighting started breaking out all over the place.
Once they helped save a Caravan that was being attacked by repliroids. The Caravan's leader Neige relayed her plan to create a human-only settlement at Area Zero.
It was around that time that Neo Arcadia changed tactics and put a new strategic operation into action.......
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Thanks, Stay-Puft.
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But does that mean Inti didn't consider making it so?
Considering Inti said the complete opposite in this summary, it never crossed their mind. Rather, the opposite, Sigma Virus countermeasures in X, who's the originator of the suffering circuit. Of course, there's a lot to say for the fact that other Repliroids lack these countermeasures, and have a less than perfect suffering circuit.
There's a ton of what abouts. What about the statements that said Sigma got the Virus directly from Zero? That Wily inserted the virus into Zero, and that Zero was initially the only one infected? What about Zero being a robot like X sealed 100 years ago?
If the statements are not written as in-story rumors or out of story speculation, then it should not be ignored. The 1XX years ago statement sounds far too much like a small labeling error if all those sources truly exist.
Also, I have some doubts about the way these sources are written as a historical retrospective from the conclusion of the ZERO-series' point of view. What with all the "political propaganda" and "lost centuries of history" that exists within the system and follows Neo Arcadia's destruction. It'd all be much nicer if it just made use of the familiar "20XX", "21XX", "22XX" method, as if those weren't vague enough.
A retcon is a retcon.
The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions, that doesn't mean we as fans have to go about and make those contradictions ourselves. Only when things are absolutely written into a corner is retcon a mandatory answer. As long as we can reason our way out of that corner, then we should do so, and not invoke the name of retcon. Bringing up retcon here is just a cop-out excuse for angry gamers to vent their frustrations at the course a story has taken with its elements.
If that was true, there wouldn't be any confusion and "what about". At base value, people have to scramble around to make sense of it.
In referring specifically to Inti's story, it solves the following three matters:
-Founding of Neo Arcadia
-Creation of Big4
-Yggdrasil sealing
Which were previously the three biggest unknowns with numerous of conflicting implications.
The existence of X7 and beyond as canon to the ZERO-series is up to the X-series to wholly decide. As it is the one that is still ongoing; the way it takes its course can make or break its connection to the known future.
As for the whole details revolving around Zero's turning good? I honestly don't think the exact technobabble behind it matters in the grand scheme of things, as long as we acknowledge basic cause and effect of both the events stated here, and the events of X5.
I stopped caring about these shenanigans right around the whole "Dr. Light made the virus" fiasco that so many people (including yourself, I do believe) spread around
The moment of the RZOCW fiasco, I was out of the country, and had to deal with all that crap after the fact. At which point I immediately demanded an direct quote of the line that supposedly said such. The info then spread by MMN was simply their own interpretation quickly summarized, whereas the actual text is not at all that specific. Not to mention the complete disregard, at that time, for the "may not be canon"disclaimer that preceded that information.
After obtaining the direct translations of the text, I have since promoted an interpretation most in line with established canon, which in the case of major contradictions, does not retcon the canon due to the disclaimer that precedes it.
About the matter of Light creating the Virus, the text itself says that the true essence of Sigma Virus is a "suffering circuit" Right included into X. Before it goes on to explain what exactly a "suffering circuit" does within a Reploid. Then explaining this stuff about how Zero was first infected with the Sigma Virus and how Zero being an evil Reploid made by Wily was turned good by the Sigma Virus and spread it around the world, causing his admittance into the research institute.
Whenever the matter of "true essence of Sigma Virus" comes up, I say this: "whatever that means". It's a vague mention of a relation between two concepts that are each other's polar opposites. The "suffering circuit" causes X's "worrying", which is the root cause of his free will, which Sigma Virus stands opposite to. None of that says Light made the Virus. And the summary we have before us today pretty much denies that very idea.
It was all a case of jumping to conclusions without having a proper translation for everyone to judge by. And now we do have a proper translation for all to judge by.
The way I see it, it'll change again at some point, no matter how small the detail it may be. All these extra things we don't see happen in games are strongly subject to change, so I find it better just to focus on the stuff in the games themselves.
Doesn't really work that way when people's conclusion jumping leads to whole games being supposedly retconned out.
If we want it to really be disproven, we need a game that shows the creation of Zero outright and what Dr. Wily first did with him rather than all this "and then a century later" murkiness.
We saw that in X4; created in his capsule and sealed away immediately following that. Didn't stop people from inventing the cataclysm to begin with.
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ITT: we don't see what's written, we see what we want to see written.
But what else is new anyway?
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But what else is new anyway?
Conan O'Brien might come back.
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Conan O'Brien might come back.
Really?
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The Hunters knew Zero was infected with the Sigma Virus during X5, and at that same time they recognized that while he did not register a "Maverick reading" his power output grew in response. That itself was enough to lead Signas to believe Zero had the virus antibodies inside him, and that itself would be reason enough for the governing humans to want to have him decommissioned and dissected. We saw Signas order this information be kept secret, but some Lifesavers shared that info with X, and who knows who else. And that's all before Isoc announced to the entire world that some ghost of Zero was responsible for spreading the Nightmare virus.
Suspicious circumstances surrounding Zero weren't new to the Nightmare, though, as you yourself pointed out a lot of this was discussed before X6. Heck, even Gate calls the Hunters out on it, that Zero's unknown nature carries great risk and yet the Hunters refuse to dispose of him as they did Gate's own works.
But see, by bringing to light what the Hunters knew prior to X6, you only establish what Inti is not talking about. For them to reference the Nightmare incident, and not Eurasia (which is already mentioned in this timeline, not to mention a major contributor to the storyline of Z4), says that something beyond what the Hunters had established in X5 came to light.
So instead of just repeating that process of "that can't be what they really meant," and trying to find loopholes by which to hold on to our old conceptions as cataclysm fans have been doing for over a decade, I would rather acknowledge that maybe the wording sounds so much like Zero sealed himself after X6 because that is exactly what they are trying to say.
There is a tremendous difference between justifying fan-based conjecture such as the cataclysm and trying to reconcile all officially video game sourced information as has been presented to us. To discard theory is one thing; to discard the games themselves should be done only as a last resort.
And I can't speak for anyone else, but you needn't explain the value of a branching timeline to me. Before ZX I was among the more adamant fans suggesting that Legends may continue off of Eurasia impacting Earth, and frankly the fanfic-daydreaming of that scenario never stopped anyway.
But if they did that here, then to what end? As a matter of pattern recognition I just don't see breaking from X6 as something Inticreates would do. As off-the-wall as their storytelling gets, they enjoy throwing obscure references out there, such as B&C and RM&FWS. They worked hard towards maintaining Legends as the eventual future without writing themselves into a corne. And, I will re-iterate *AGAIN*, if their true intention was to write X7-XCM, or even XCM alone, out of the Zero-series timeline, why have they not adopted the date of 22XX for the Zero-series events? It'd be a lot less outrageous than their estimate of the birth of Zero.
I've been wrong before. But even if they would, nothing says they did. As Zan said, a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction; not a cop-out answer to contradictions that the fans create. Retconning out full games is simply the fans jumping to conclusions.
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And, apparently, it has fallen to you and Zan to clear up this whole mess. RETCON HUNTERS GO! ZAN, HYPERSHELL, GO! FOR GREAT JUSTICE!
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Aarf!
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In referring specifically to Inti's story, it solves the following three matters:
-Founding of Neo Arcadia
-Creation of Big4
-Yggdrasil sealing
Which were previously the three biggest unknowns with numerous of conflicting implications.
That would all be fine and dandy, if there weren't still some conflicting implications. One such example would be the Creation of the Big 4 presented here, which conflicts with their Shining Arms in particular. In the way it's presented here, it seems that the Big 4 were created after the Elf Wars, although beforehand it was implicated that they were fighting in said wars. There's still kinks Inti/Capcom needs to work out.
Doesn't really work that way when people's conclusion jumping leads to whole games being supposedly retconned out.
Yes... conclusions from information that isn't presented in the games. All this extra information they're giving is interesting, however a lot of it is based upon material that they thought up while making the games. Now, I'm willing to bet that a lot of this information wasn't thought out completely back in the day, and they're playing "fill in the gaps" over time to make it official. The problem with that is that it doesn't take much to throw things out of balance, especially when people misconstrue things quite easily. Speaking of which, I wasn't working to discredit you on the RZOCW fiasco nonsense. I was pointing out how easy it is for things to be taken completely out of context, especially when the information is being continually developed over time. Working in this fashion it's rather easy to make inconsistencies unintentionally, and it doesn't help when the fanbase is trying to make more of it than they should. Thing is, Inti/Capcom don't really have a choice but to work in such a manner, due to the way making and selling games works.
Now, the smart way to go about this (from a storytelling point of view) would be to finalize all that information internally before they release it. They're not working from a storytelling point of view as the main focus though; they're keeping everything open so that they can make more sequels. So they're slowly working it out on the side, not being sure if they'll ever be able to use it in a game or if all this information will even be considered correct down the line once more games in the various Rockman series are made. This is Inti/Capcom trying to keep people's interest alive without actually committing a large sum of money to it. To treat it as finalized information probably isn't the best of ideas.
Which brings me back to my initial point again... I personally don't care what they say outside of the games, because it's all subject to change. All your reasoning doesn't change this fact.
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That would all be fine and dandy, if there weren't still some conflicting implications. One such example would be the Creation of the Big 4 presented here, which conflicts with their Shining Arms in particular. In the way it's presented here, it seems that the Big 4 were created after the Elf Wars, although beforehand it was implicated that they were fighting in said wars. There's still kinks Inti/Capcom needs to work out.
The Shining Arms were specifically used by the "top irregular hunter(s)" of the irregular wars. X wielded at least two of them. And the Big4 are made from his soul, DNA, parts. If not Neo Arcadian propaganda, the Shining Arms are more than likely wielded by X. If not other wielders.
Which brings me back to my initial point again... I personally don't care what they say outside of the games, because it's all subject to change. All your reasoning doesn't change this fact.
It's different when said information is officially released, though. I can see interviews changing whenever, but not actual information accompanying a game release.
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Considering Inti said the complete opposite in this summary, it never crossed their mind. Rather, the opposite, Sigma Virus countermeasures in X, who's the originator of the suffering circuit. Of course, there's a lot to say for the fact that other Repliroids lack these countermeasures, and have a less than perfect suffering circuit.
That's contemporary conjecture, not from the standpoint of the times. The virus turning Zero good was a radical and unheard of idea in 2006. When you're talking about the virus turning Zero good back then, it could just as easily become a Suffering Circuit program "virus" leaking from X's capsule that spread to Zero and infected him. The use of the suffering circuit to make reploids question whether either side is truly right or wrong is exactly the kind of thing that could turn a bad violent dude into a thoughtful justice-driven guy. But this was dismissed by us back then because we dismissed the premise, that the virus turned Zero good. Up until last week or so, we were still rejecting it.
Now we're told in an official capacity that Zero was turned good by the virus. We have other call to dismiss that particular aspect of suffering circuit's role as a direction that was not followed, but we can not say that years before MM10 was around that Inti was not thinking of taking things in that vein. The idea that the suffering circuit is in some way part of X's perfect virus counter-measure is itself still conjecture at this point.
But see, by bringing to light what the Hunters knew prior to X6, you only establish what Inti is not talking about. For them to reference the Nightmare incident, and not Eurasia (which is already mentioned in this timeline, not to mention a major contributor to the storyline of Z4), says that something beyond what the Hunters had established in X5 came to light.
The passage in the timeline seemed to already lay it out for us. The conditions were these:
“The Nightmare Incident” occurs, an event where a subspecies of the Sigma Virus that attracts attention as the Nightmare Virus spreads throughout the world. The fact was proven that Zero was it source, as he was a carrier of the Sigma Virus, and was contagious to his surroundings as he worked across the world as a Hunter.
Zero as the source of the Nightmare was expressed first by Isoc to the entire world, then confirmed by Gate himself to the Hunters. Zero was known to be a Sigma virus carrier by the end of X5, but Zero refused to get fully checked out at that time, instead pressing on until the battle with Sigma was settled, and subsequently disappeared for the weeks leading directly into X6. The last issue, that Zero is contagious to his environs, is the only precursor that we might be able to toy with. Even though they knew Zero had the Sigma virus in him and was the basis for the Nightmare, it does not necessarily lend itself to believing that Zero is contaminating the world around him. It is a logical conjecture based on the first two points, and one would think it was an important question that they would want to be answered, but maybe somehow they missed this key point which is perhaps the most damning to Zero's condition. Zero himself seemed to recognize the danger his very existence presented in his X5 ending where he discovers the meaning of his dreams, but perhaps he's forgotten that information post his revival. Certainly no one treats Zero as though he's hazardous and constantly spreading a deadly virus in X7~on. Perhaps they do not recognize this yet, and the X series will continue until they do. I believe that is currently the best shot for keeping X7, X8, and to a more difficult extent XCM in the timeline. But that's all from searching for a loophole that would serve my hypothesis and refusing to accept the face value of the new information given.
The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions, that doesn't mean we as fans have to go about and make those contradictions ourselves. Only when things are absolutely written into a corner is retcon a mandatory answer. As long as we can reason our way out of that corner, then we should do so, and not invoke the name of retcon. Bringing up retcon here is just a cop-out excuse for angry gamers to vent their frustrations at the course a story has taken with its elements.
A retcon is usually the cause of the contradiction that it is supposedly canceling out, so far as I can tell. Capcom and Inti have yet to write a manifesto that guarantees they feel the same way about retcons as you do. The fans weren't the ones who wrote the Zero Collection's page to read the way it does. Inti did not have to group Zero's sealing with the Nightmare Incident in their timeline, nor mention it again in X's bio. But they did. And to be fair, the idea they are either purposefully or accidentally presenting there should be explored rather than outright denied.
If it makes you feel better, don't call it a retcon. Ask whether they ever actually said that X7 and on were part of the Zero timeline before, or whether we only assumed they were. If they didn't state that earlier, then call it a "late reveal" or however you excuse it to yourself.
Rockman Perfect Memories posed the question of how Zero could be sealed in his X6 ending and still appear in X7. It also asked when and how Zero's 100 year sleep (now perhaps reduced to 50) would be applied, which allowed us our leeway to believe that this particular ending would occur at a later occasion at the ending of the X series. The book also said the key to putting things together would be found in X7 when it came out. But X7 was still in development at the time, and wouldn't release for over half a year later.
Perhaps that plan also changed since then, because when it did come out, X7 just made it that much more confusing. It did not say anything directly about Zero's sealing. It gave some cryptic references to be interpreted, like Zero's ending where he dreams of X trying to eliminate him, or Anteator's bizarre "memories of the future/false images of the past" comments that sounded reminiscent to the concepts in the Zero series. It also mirrored Zero 2's intro boss, with how in both stages Zero is forced to battle a giant scorpion mechaniloid. Can we say we understand what message was being sent there? Does Zero's data somehow contain prophetic glimpses into the future, or does Zero dream of the events of a parallel world?
Then came the Compendium of Rockman X, which repeats that the Zero series is thought to follow the 100 year sleep ending of X6, and yet marks the event with a "?" on Zero's personal record between X6 and X7. Not much better for clarity's sake. Is the question mark denoting that it takes place at an uncertain later time, or that the event may or may not take place at all, as in a branching timeline event?
And then we have MXOCW's comment that Capcom artist Higurashi thought that the Zero series was taking place in 22XX, while he was working on Command Mission. Apparently in a parallel world sort of way, since there's not much leeway for Z1 to take place in 22XX if the 100 year seal took place after Command Mission. Was he just really confused about things, or was his thinking based on the already known to him premise that Zero and Command Mission are separate timelines?
Not that it in any way proves or disproves the point, but split timeline theories have been pretty popular among Japanese fans for years (as fan sites like this (http://r-style.s33.xrea.com/rock/pipe.html) and this (http://www.cty-net.ne.jp/~skymn/zikan.html) demonstrate). After shuffling through a few Japanese blog reactions to the Zero Collection site, they're having more trouble with accepting things the virus coming from Zero's capsule and turning Zero good, Ciel needing her visor to interact with Cyber Elves, and the Big 4 being parts recent reincarnations of X's partitioned soul than they are dealing with the snubbing of the late X series. Perhaps it's time we unlearn what we have learned and examine why we're trying to prove their connectedness in the first place.
But if they did that here, then to what end? As a matter of pattern recognition I just don't see breaking from X6 as something Inticreates would do. As off-the-wall as their storytelling gets, they enjoy throwing obscure references out there, such as B&C and RM&FWS. They worked hard towards maintaining Legends as the eventual future without writing themselves into a corne.
We're talking about the same Inti that created a timeline split right off the bat for ZX? Vent>Ashe/Aile>Grey's parallel worlds divulged and continued simultaneously into the future, and they don't seem to bothered--they'll get to Legends either way (and perhaps when you're dealing with a connection that's thousands of years separated, the only way they could really "mess up" the Legends bridge is if they blow up the entire Earth Alderaan style, but there might even be workarounds to that). We already know that not every obscure reference is one of canonical relevance. It just puts the obscure references to X7 and such at the same level as the references they made to the EXE series.
X7, X8, XCM would still be canonical to themselves and each other, and X1-6 could continue to be canonical to both X7+ and Zero+. What it would do is allow the X series to write itself a new future, take things in a completely different story direction (which is something they have been doing already, but here could do so without a timetable or future prerequisite to stay within). They can rebuild the world differently than how it happens in the Zero series. They never have to have an Elf War at all, technology can branch out in different ways (like Force Metal and Copy Chips). They could even kill off X or Zero--for real this time!--if they so wanted. Axl doesn't have to disappear. The X series can go on for centuries, perhaps eventually arriving at Legends in its own way, perhaps not. The X series would be free.
To a really push the envelope, perhaps the history and events of the Zero series don't even have to be the same as the history of the X series. By that I mean, perhaps in the Zero series timeline Zero was spreading the virus contagiously, while perhaps in the X series version he isn't. Perhaps while in the Zero universe, Zero was infected from his own capsule by some ancient stowaway virus, while in the X universe Wily put the virus into him on purpose. I don't actually want to push things that far and make them that complicated, but it would be another potential option for the removal of certain contradictions with past books that we've been given over to. Only, the mess it would make in figuring out what is canon to what series would probably always boil down to "we just don't know for sure, look at it how you want." But there's a fanon element to everything we're doing. If we could create the canon, we'd be Capcom. Instead we just view it and ponder.
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But there's a fanon element to everything we're doing. If we could create the canon, we'd be Capcom. Instead we just view it and ponder.
But it's such an interesting & fun fanon to read, Marshy!
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Now we're told in an official capacity that Zero was turned good by the virus.
We're told in an official capacity "in more detail", might I add. At times, we should accept where vagueness exists. Instead of debating ourselves into contradiction. This time around we're given vital pieces of info that allow us to make sense of the "turned good by the virus" scenario". A particular contribution being the reason for Zero's sealing. We should still however reconcile that with X5, which at face value implicates the complete opposite happening.
In other aspects of this site's summary, details are sorely absent, though. And it's the lack of details that's causing contradictions such as Light's age at the time of X's creation. Reconciled with our understanding of the series, we take it to mean that Light incorporated the virus countermeasure idea because of events similar to Rockman10's, into the project to create X, which was already conceptualized as early as Power Battle, but would not be completed for such a long time that Dr. Light would die of old age shortly following X's completion.
All in all, there are times when we shouldn't get so stuck up on worded implications of time; it IS just a summary, it condenses time by its very definition.
And to be fair, the idea they are either purposefully or accidentally presenting there should be explored rather than outright denied.
And the opposite is also true; we shouldn't outright deny the relevance of these games toward the ZERO-series, in a either a split or non-split timeline for that matter. Whether a split has occurred or not, even if that future is never ever reached; the ZERO-series influences the elements of the X-series, and the X-series influences them right back. Even if an alternate one, these visions of the past and future paint each other. From the appearance of Orbital Elevators in X to the use of copy abilities in ZX and so on.
We're talking about the same Inti that created a timeline split right off the bat for ZX?
But also the same Inti that desperately included X6 into a story which was supposed to go from X5. Strange they would turn things up side down for one X game, then not bother with subsequent X-series titles at all...
they're having more trouble with accepting things the virus coming from Zero's capsule and turning Zero good, Ciel needing her visor to interact with Cyber Elves, and the Big 4 being parts recent reincarnations of X's partitioned soul than they are dealing with the snubbing of the late X series.,
Well, they're not the ones with the fanbase that jumps at every chance to disown games they don't like. I'm fine with the notion of a split timeline, what I'm not fine with is the childish attitude the fanbase has taken here. As I said before, even if we go with a spit timeline, events highly similar to the continuing X-series have to happen anyway; we can never fully disregard the games, not even with a split.
As for all the other problems, pretty much the same things we're dealing with it seems. Though, I think a couple of those ideas might have existed all along. The Big4 and X's soul fragmenting seems very much like an afterthought, but... the details behind Zero turning good; something tells me Inti wasn't the one that thought that one up.
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In other aspects of this site's summary, details are sorely absent, though. And it's the lack of details that's causing contradictions such as Light's age at the time of X's creation. Reconciled with our understanding of the series, we take it to mean that Light incorporated the virus countermeasure idea because of events similar to Rockman10's, into the project to create X, which was already conceptualized as early as Power Battle, but would not be completed for such a long time that Dr. Light would die of old age shortly following X's completion.
That's one solution for that problem. Another might be saying that MHX is canon to the newer X series but not the Zero series. From the original X1, we only know that Dr. Light wasn't expecting to live for another full 30 years for the tests to finish. Without the imagery from Day of Sigma, Light can seal X as a younger man than was shown there. Of course, this is a good deal more complicated than the above solution. I do think that with or without a split timeline, saying it's X's design blueprints and not his construction that was completed around MM10 is the easiest solution.
I guess even that is getting ahead of ourselves, since even though it seems the most obvious solution, nothing but the subtitle has thus far connected that Roboenza is the computer virus from space. It's certainly a logical step to make, but...
And the opposite is also true; we shouldn't outright deny the relevance of these games toward the ZERO-series, in a either a split or non-split timeline for that matter. Whether a split has occurred or not, even if that future is never ever reached; the ZERO-series influences the elements of the X-series, and the X-series influences them right back. Even if an alternate one, these visions of the past and future paint each other. From the appearance of Orbital Elevators in X to the use of copy abilities in ZX and so on.
And Classic, X and Legends influenced EXE, and Star Force 2 seems based around Super Adventure Rockman, but drawing and sharing inspirations is irrelevant to whether or not the certain games tie into an ordered system. No doubt they draw influences, but are the plotlines literally connected and leading from one into one another? That's the value relevant to the discussion. Some of them could be: but how can we say for sure they are? That's why I say we need more information to make the judgment. Unless that judgment has been reserved for the fans to interpret individually, as other things have been said to be.
But also the same Inti that desperately included X6 into a story which was supposed to go from X5. Strange they would turn things up side down for one X game, then not bother with subsequent X-series titles at all...
The ending seems entirely written for the purpose of leading into the Zero series, so perhaps it isn't that strange. I imagine that since it was the Capcom team that came up with that ending, it was Capcom's decision for the Zero series to utilize it for the lead-in. Capcom retconned X5's endings to make X6 in the first place, and maybe a splitting of the timelines also falls to them. Inti does have to get their approval with the things they do with the franchise, is my understanding. No blame should really befall Inti that isn't shared with Cappy.
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Over the next week or two I don't intend to have as much time as usual to sit in front of the comp, so I'm going to limit my response here to what was specifically addressed to me.
Zero as the source of the Nightmare was expressed first by Isoc to the entire world, then confirmed by Gate himself to the Hunters.
(http://home.comcast.net/~anguirus/objection.gif)
Isoc and Gate spoke in very different capacities. Gate admitted that he created the Nightmare based on his research on Zero. Isoc claimed that the Nightmare actually was Zero, as in, Zero was directly responsible. You're blending two very different stories together and claiming them to lead to a single end whereas in fact the two are not even compatible, and thus your point could not possibly be more invalid. Gate's word, and Gate's alone, holds. Isoc's does not. The mere fact that Zero exists separate from the Nightmare invalidates Isoc's announcement.
Zero was known to be a Sigma virus carrier by the end of X5
You're neglecting the Colony/Zero virus, with data so similar to Zero's (hence Alia herself naming it), it suggests that in this instance the virus was being tailored towards him. Sigma lends credit to this by naming Zero as the goal of the entire Eurasia incident. While Zero's reaction to the Sigma Virus is unusual, events after Eurasia blew hold for the specific virus strain released at that time. Zero himself knew he was gaining power in response to the Sigma Virus alone. The Hunters did not; Lifesaver was suspicious of Zero's reaction to antiviruses. Signas, even in the face of that, was not willing to label Zero as a threat, instead suggesting that Zero may have built up his own resistance.
That Zero can be exploited is old news; it's been happening since X2. What is key to Zero's seal is when the leap is made from the enemy being able to use him, which the Hunters already know, to Zero's mere presence constituting a threat, which they do not.
The last issue, that Zero is contagious to his environs, is the only precursor that we might be able to toy with.
Besides the fact that previous issues were not as concrete are you're presenting, this particular issue is also the most critical, as it is a survivor from Three Keys we know for a fact that it's early concept being reinforced.
I'll also put forward this notion: To split the timeline at X6 requires X6 itself to present the split. It only works if X6 itself suggests it, and the "completed Zero ending" makes no explanation as to why Zero is being sealed. No additional information is gained while playing as Zero that does not come forward while playing as X. Thus we have a problem: While it is perfectly plausible for a change in Zero's judgment to bring about an early seal, that is not in the least what Inti told us. By telling us that it became known that Zero is inadvertently spreading the virus, Zero's seal cannot take place in the middle of the X-series unless that has come to light. At no point in X6 was that so.
Zero himself seemed to recognize the danger his very existence presented in his X5 ending where he discovers the meaning of his dreams, but perhaps he's forgotten that information post his revival.
Or he realized that even when he is not present others will still try to abuse him, which is exactly what happened with Gate.
But that's all from searching for a loophole that would serve my hypothesis and refusing to accept the face value of the new information given.
I find the complete opposite to be true. Your hypothesis of ditching X7+ is based on a great deal of conjecture and lack of detail; it is in no way more valid than the alternative. Inticreates didn't just name the Nightmare, they named the rationale by which the Nightmare is linked. If this rationale has not been presented yet, then the seal has not happened yet. Your proposed explanation for how it has been presented in X5/X6 is severely lacking in consistency and, by your own admission, cannot accommodate the final key (the discovery of Zero spreading the virus) leading to Zero's seal.
We're talking about the same Inti that created a timeline split right off the bat for ZX?
(http://home.comcast.net/~anguirus/objection.gif)
That's a very apples-and-oranges comparison you're making. ZX's split maintained both forks simultaneously, and both by Inticreates. It's akin to X4 except without the sequel attempting to merge the two immediately. The fact that both are expanded on equally justifies them in itself. It allows some flexibility for player preference, and also allows Inti to explore the series backstory from different angles (in ZX, Vent focuses on Zero-series links, while Aile focuses on the more recent past).
The X-series, however, lacks current development, which discredits your "freeing the series" idea. By refusing to name MMZ's century (something I have brought up repeatedly and you have been either unwilling or unable to explain), Inti has still maintained enough leeway that the X-series can do whatever it wants without dropping any games. Even if they were to split, XCM limits the main X-series to 21XX anyway, not that a date change would accomplish much. And killing the heroes? Nobody in their right mind does that with a playable character, lest we get the suspiciously similar replacement for the fans to [sonic slicer] about. If Capcom were honestly open to that they would have had X take the series solo at X6, but they know better. Meanwhile, they can kill any other character they wish (including Sigma, as we're well aware), since none of the supporting cast appears in XCM. I'm quite certain they did that on purpose.
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but drawing and sharing inspirations is irrelevant to whether or not the certain games tie into an ordered system.
That wasn't my point, though. With a split timeline, the ZERO-series backstory and the current storyline arc in the X-series would occur in the same span of time. In that span of time, the major elements which are reused from X8/XCM to ZXA, from ZERO to X8/XCM, very much acknowledge a similar history, even if there are key differences. We can never see X7~XCM as wholly mutually exclusive from ZERO/ZX.
The mere fact that Zero exists separate from the Nightmare invalidates Isoc's announcement.
Exactly, and the Zero Nightmare was destroyed by X, who wanted to clear his friend's name. You'd think any negative opinions about Zero would be thrown out the window by that point.
cannot accommodate the final key (the discovery of Zero spreading the virus) leading to Zero's seal.
I think this part is very important, as it is the one aspect that only we as the player saw. Nobody else knows the source for Gate's irregularity.
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I think this part is very important, as it is the one aspect that only we as the player saw. Nobody else knows the source for Gate's irregularity.
For that matter we as players would not know that it wasn't an isolated incident if not for Inti telling us, twice. Gate's infection is in the aftermath of a tremendous viral assault on Zero. That Zero's infection is contagious following that is no small stretch; that it is so on a regular basis is not something that even we as players would have established without MMZOCW and the Zero Collection website.
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For that matter we as players would not know that it wasn't an isolated incident if not for Inti telling us, twice. Gate's infection is in the aftermath of a tremendous viral assault on Zero. That Zero's infection is contagious following that is no small stretch; that it is so on a regular basis is not something that even we as players would have established without MMZOCW and the Zero Collection website.
That's true in a way, but there's something to be said for "a normal virus dies with its host", which didn't happen in Zero's case.
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That's a pretty loose connection given that the Hunters already know that Zero doesn't show standard viral reactions during Eurasia. Even if that were not the case, it could easily be answered by digging into the definition of a host. A "piece" of the host Reploid that survived the host's "death", intact enough that it preserves said host's DNA data, could very well work as a viral culture of sorts. Remember, we're only talking about a few weeks' survival.
The Sigma Virus can utilize a great deal of technology; it is not limited solely to conscious Reploids. Magna Centipede's computer core, not to mention Eurasia itself, stand as testament to that fact. So does Zero's capsule in light of Inti's new timeline.
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Isoc and Gate spoke in very different capacities. Gate admitted that he created the Nightmare based on his research on Zero. Isoc claimed that the Nightmare actually was Zero, as in, Zero was directly responsible. You're blending two very different stories together and claiming them to lead to a single end whereas in fact the two are not even compatible, and thus your point could not possibly be more invalid. Gate's word, and Gate's alone, holds. Isoc's does not. The mere fact that Zero exists separate from the Nightmare invalidates Isoc's announcement.
Despite you saying this point is invalid, it sounds like you actually agree with the major point that Zero as the source of the Nightmare was proven... just not by Isoc. You wish to quibble? Lets. Isoc claimed in his announcement that a ghost of Zero was the source of the Nightmare phenomenon. Before anyone knew that the Zero Nightmare was a fake, the insinuation is that this apparition is the Zero who disappeared weeks ago and is now running rampant spreading this menace. Ergo, the world at large is led to believe that Zero is the source of the Nightmare, effecting public opinion of him quite adversely. In the scene where Zero does come back, even he knows that toy has been smearing his reputation, and he's been holed off who knows where. Regaining the populace's faith in Zero's innocence is an uphill battle for the Hunters and not something easily swept under the table due to the very public character attack from his accusers. The whole world's doubts over Zero don't necessarily evaporate immediately after Zero Nightmare is defeated (how and when do the Hunters relay this news of clearing Zero's name to the world?). Even given that Zero and the Zero Nightmare are two separate (though intricately linked) entities, the initial accusation that Zero is the source of the virus is still confirmed, though not in quite the same manner Isoc insinuated. I think the tarnished reputation and sense of confused hysteria surrounding the incident may add an important atmosphere of distrust in that compounds upon the actual truth behind the matter--that the Nightmare really did come from Zero's DNA. Negative public opinion might even contribute to the decision made by the humans that he should be sealed. That's why I mentioned it as being a relevant step.
Zero himself knew he was gaining power in response to the Sigma Virus alone. The Hunters did not; Lifesaver was suspicious of Zero's reaction to antiviruses.
Maybe you missed that party, but as I've discussed at Zan's behest before, the MMX5 manual differs from the Rockman X5 manual, in saying that Lifesaver becomes concerned over Zero's virus reaction, not antivirus one. The Hunters recognized that Zero was infected over the course of the game, and the conversation with Signas was over how Zero was reacting to the virus itself. They know he is carrying the sigma virus, and getting stronger from it. But they do not understand all which that implicates, and the immediate fate of the world is at that time more important to Signas than figuring out what exactly can be learned from Zero's unique virus situation.
That Zero can be exploited is old news; it's been happening since X2. What is key to Zero's seal is when the leap is made from the enemy being able to use him, which the Hunters already know, to Zero's mere presence constituting a threat, which they do not.
The only way the Hunters see him used in X2 is either as a bargaining chip to entice X to battle the X-Hunters, or as an enemy who was manipulated by some manner of brainwashing but defeated and returned to normal (the latter apparently being the "didn't happen" scenario). It doesn't seem that anyone had an inkling of Zero being the source of any virus at that point.
I'll also put forward this notion: To split the timeline at X6 requires X6 itself to present the split. It only works if X6 itself suggests it, and the "completed Zero ending" makes no explanation as to why Zero is being sealed. No additional information is gained while playing as Zero that does not come forward while playing as X. Thus we have a problem: While it is perfectly plausible for a change in Zero's judgment to bring about an early seal, that is not in the least what Inti told us. By telling us that it became known that Zero is inadvertently spreading the virus, Zero's seal cannot take place in the middle of the X-series unless that has come to light. At no point in X6 was that so.
Some things X6 expressed don't seem to be relevant anymore. At the time, the Zero sealing ending seemed best fitted to matching with X's "bad" ending, where Zero entrusts the world to X while he sets off to right something he feels he must do. Of course, the paths leading to those two endings didn't mesh. But just analyzing the Zero X6 ending by itself gives the impression that Zero's sealing is of his own choosing and entirely voluntary, even to the point where the scientist tries to talk him out of it because whatever it is shouldn't be a problem in his opinion. It seemed at the time that he simply wanted the virus data removed from his body, not so much to be a guinnea pig for Sigma Virus research. We're told his coma would last for 102 years. Following ZC's site, it sounds like Zero's decision could have been made for him, the emphasis is put on studying him over simply removing what was troubling him, and the 102 years thing has been questionable since MZOCW revealed the double sealing in the first place. These general discrepancies exist among the ending itself and what the Zero series backstory portrays as having happened. I believe these all are likely the result of the changing nature the Z series story development took between Z1 and Z2~ZX. When X6 came out, all of this was completely unforseen. The RPM book left this open and unanswered, perhaps simply because they didn't know how things would pan out yet themselves--the directions that both X7 and Z2 would take were still up in the air.
Zero actively spreading the virus might be one of those incongruities that changes/overwrites our past understanding of events. We may not have actually seen them run the tests that showed Zero's capacity to spread the virus in X6, but Cap/Inti still may have decided such a realization occurred in the Nightmare Incident's aftermath. We're already being told that the X6 seal didn't happen the exact same way we saw it happen. We don't have to wait for further explanation in the X series if this is that explanation.
By refusing to name MMZ's century (something I have brought up repeatedly and you have been either unwilling or unable to explain), Inti has still maintained enough leeway that the X-series can do whatever it wants without dropping any games.
They apparently shied away from naming MMZ's century in press materials from the get-go, although Higurashi seemed to think he knew when. Maybe they didn't name it because it's always been their policy not to. Maybe they didn't because of the potential span with when the pre-X1 series events begin and when and for how long Zero's X6-ending sealing takes place (if longer than the 50 years of testing they presented in MZOCW) with adding in the Elf Wars and the post-Elf Wars seal, things could be pushed in their extremes to 23XX. Or, they could be leaving room to include X series games. Even though they are vague with the century, the 1XX years ago usage itself makes it difficult indeed to include Command Mission at all without great delay of the series' beginnings and very minimal estimates for all Zero's sealings, as we all quickly realized. For that purpose it would have been much better to use a timeline like the one in MZOCW where no relative dates are given. Just events in an ordered manner.
Even if they were to split, XCM limits the main X-series to 21XX anyway, not that a date change would accomplish much. And killing the heroes? Nobody in their right mind does that with a playable character, lest we get the suspiciously similar replacement for the fans to [sonic slicer] about. If Capcom were honestly open to that they would have had X take the series solo at X6, but they know better.
For character death, I was considering a grand finale option. Like how they almost wrapped things up in X5, except here their deaths would have weight and meaning because Capcom/Inafune wouldn't be planning thier resurrections before the blood is even dry. Perhaps something even more epic than Ragnarok (or for X, I don't think it would be too hard to find something more appeasing than Elpizo stabbing him). They could also just keep going and extending past even Command Mission's 22XX with no limit in sight. It all amounts to a chance for them to do things differently this time around.
That wasn't my point, though. With a split timeline, the ZERO-series backstory and the current storyline arc in the X-series would occur in the same span of time. In that span of time, the major elements which are reused from X8/XCM to ZXA, from ZERO to X8/XCM, very much acknowledge a similar history, even if there are key differences. We can never see X7~XCM as wholly mutually exclusive from ZERO/ZX.
Maybe I still don't get what you're saying, but if we're ever (more explicitly) told that the branching timeline system is what they have in mind, then mutually exclusive is exactly how we should see those games. Do you mean that they're like X's good ending vs X's bad ending in X5, where either road can be taken, and we assume that knowledge we learn in one (like X's dream of Elysium) still applies to the other, even if not expressed? More or less negating the possibility that the Zero series backstory/accounts of events differs at all from the earlier X series accounts, like I suggested the possibility of earlier? If that's what you're saying, it does make sense, only we'd still be left with the apparent inconsistencies that new materials have brought with them. It's all really just a question of what Capcom's stance is about it all.
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Negative public opinion might even contribute to the decision made by the humans that he should be sealed. That's why I mentioned it as being a relevant step.
Even if the humans consider Zero a liability, it can not be forgotten that Zero is one of their best irregular hunters, who has yet to show any irregularities of himself. There's a huge risk taken with sealing Zero away, which was expressed by the scientist. We have to consider that there can be a considerable amount of doubt causing political debate, which would demand Zero's own approval of the situation he is placed in. All of this can delay the time of sealing for further X-series titles.
Do you mean that they're like X's good ending vs X's bad ending in X5, where either road can be taken, and we assume that knowledge we learn in one (like X's dream of Elysium) still applies to the other, even if not expressed? More or less negating the possibility that the Zero series backstory/accounts of events differs at all from the earlier X series accounts, like I suggested the possibility of earlier?
In one way, this is exactly what I'm saying.
But what I was adding to that was something like ZX's Vent and Aile scenario leading toward ZXA's Ashe and Grey scenario; even though another path was taken by Girouette's choice, the future still follows a similar course aside from certain deviations. Prairie for example would have never gotten a new dress in the Ashe future, but that doesn't change the way the battle with Model V continues.
Between X and the ZERO-series, the choice of Zero being sealed or not, the deviations would certainly be quite a bit heavier; more things change than they are the same. But it would still mean that in both cases, Orbital Elevators and Copy Chips are inevitably both invented, albeit not necessarily in the same context in both timelines; validating ZXA's references to the concepts from XCM.
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So, basically, even though X7, X8, and XCM weren't mentioned explicitly, the ideas and technology within those would still have happened regardless if ZXA and stuff were to have any valid continuity to past games?
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X6 never happened
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X1 never happened
X is still in that capsule, never to awaken
until Christmas
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X1 never happened
X is still in that capsule, never to awaken
until Christmas
all of it was just X's dream, while still sealed up. When he wakes up, he will be in a utopia, and he will laugh off his silly dream.
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Ignoring the debate which I have not felt the urge to continue (Marshmallow Man has an amazing ability to suck away my strength; three new Wii games in my library aren't helping), I thought I'd point out some oddities with the updated Zero Collection website (http://www.capcom.co.jp/rockman/zero/).
In Character Profiles, now in Cerveau's room, those characters who appeared in both versions of the site (Zero, Ciel, X, etc.) appear to be the same. However, we lost Hirondelle, Cyber-Elves, and Neo Arcadia, and gained two pages, one for Copy X and one for the Big Four. Quick glance shows mentions of DNA and the number 5 in Copy X's page, so they could be going into the soul-split there and how it impacted him (Zan hereby has my permission to beat Marshmallow with a fish for translations). In addition, there's a metric ton of Z2-Z4 character pages, weapon pages, and Cyber-Elf pages (individual pages for Nurse, Animal, and Hacker elves, nothing that matches the original Cyber-Elf page).
I see no trace of the previous and very controversial "Zero 0" backstory timeline. Note that Alouette's room is still locked so it could be in there, but I'd think it odd to seal away something that was previously the meat of the site.
EDITS: Remembering that this is an X-series thread, though obviously deeply rooted in Zero Collection, I'll be taking my non-story-relevant comments elsewhere (http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=3395.msg246364#msg246364).
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perhaps they saw what a mess the fanbase was making, eager to claim their least favorites as "not canon"?
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perhaps they saw what a mess the fanbase was making, eager to claim their least favorites as "not canon"?
What was once on the internet can never be undone.
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Do we have any way to translate the new profiles?
How do you convert Flash sites to highlightable text?
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At the end of the day, the only real defense as to why X6-X8 does not exist is because Inafune didn't know/want X6 to be developed when he finished X5. This constantly happens in the video game industry. Get over it. The games were developed and have stories. [Logical arguement] If they were not developed, then them not existing would be true. Beside that, debating it is quite useless. If you debate it, it all comes down to personal prefernce, but the fact of the matter is that the games were made, continue on the story. If you do not like anything that happened in X6-8 than ignore it and move on. If you do like the events at all, or even the characters, it happened. [/logical arguement]
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Ramzal: X6 is not in question anymore. It's been outright confirmed. The question is instead in regards to X7, X8 and XCM occurring prior to the ZERO-series.
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Also: Inafune did not "finish" the X-series with X5; rather he abandoned the series and told somebody else to finish it. By his own words:
"I had very little to do with 'X5.' I just told the team to 'finish off the series with this title,' and left it at that."
~MMXOCW, page 48
This business of "non-Inafune" games having any less weight than X5 is complete rubbish. And frankly Inafune's idea of "finality" makes me wonder if he's ever actually played X5.
Z1 in its finished state fits considerably better with X6 than X5, with Zero being deliberately sealed, hooked up to machinery, and, you know, having legs. Obviously this was before Elf Wars and the double-seal, which makes the whole thing moot in the current timeline, but speaking in retrospect of "Z1 then" rather than "Z1 now", a direct link from X5 doesn't work.