RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => Topic started by: Treleus on August 17, 2012, 03:39:09 PM
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http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Excel-2011/rockman-is-not-going-over-how-to-fix-capcom-233329.phtml
Thoughts? Seem too over-the-top to even be reasonable? Not enough motivation to go through with it? If so, is it because of numbers or because "I don't care"?
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I'm sorry, but I can't get past how he said MMU and MML3 being cancelled was a good thing. (Though I did read the article, and it seems to assume that Capcom would be smart enough to get the hint)
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I understand his reasoning for saying the cancellations were a good thing, in terms of releasing half-assed work. That was never the issue with MML3 though. However, onto the article...
It's pretty much what I said when the game was cancelled. The only way to get through to them that this kind of bs is unacceptable is to stop giving them money. It's not going to happen though because gamers are crack addicts.
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I understand his reasoning for saying the cancellations were a good thing, in terms of releasing half-assed work. That was never the issue with MML3 though.
Bingo. Universe, I get. For how long it took for Capcom to "officially" cancel it, it pretty much dropped off the radar the moment Inafune left the company. Nobody besides him seemed to really "get" what in the hell the game was supposed to be. Hell, I played it, and *I* don't get what he was going for. The most optimistic appraisal I could ever give that game is Powered Up 2 under a new brand name; which would have been pretty sweet if the last two main series releases weren't already dry-humping Mega Man 2.
Anyway, Legends 3 most definitely did not have that problem. There was a definite passion among the game developers throughout the entire life of the project. They wanted to continue as badly as we wanted them to, and some dick at the top of the chain had other plans. Probably had something to do with Capcom's most profitable game at the time being some Smurfs phone game.
It's pretty much what I said when the game was cancelled. The only way to get through to them that this kind of bs is unacceptable is to stop giving them money. It's not going to happen though because gamers are crack addicts.
Well, you're certainly right on the gamers being crack addicts part. A "true" boycott would mean abandoning all licensed usage as well; the comics, the figures, etc. I couldn't do it. I doubt anyone here really wants to. The fan-based products can be pretty damn awesome but I couldn't go on them alone when I know I have a choice.
That being said, I am in no way convinced that draining Capcom's bank accounts would convince them to change their ways. Yes, in theory, a business that exists to make money should take a lack of income as a definite sign that something is wrong, but we're assuming a company that is far more idealistic and competitive than Capcom really is. Low cash reserves are a valid reason to take less risks and make only the most minimal of investments, which we're seeing with XOver. This is the Capcom that wasted money creating a perfectly marketable product and deliberately withheld it, and in doing so committed PR suicide for no reason other than they knew they could get away with it. If they're that stubborn, who's to say that when they become poor they'll be desperate enough to spend money they may not have, instead of simply closing their doors?
Keiji Inafune has said before that Japan has lost its desire to "win". That desire to win is what creates the desperation that allows a poor company to buck their failing trends against all odds; because they absolutely refuse to accept failure. But if the company never finds that lost drive, and I do not believe that Capcom has, then they're unlikely to pull a hail-mary 180-degree turn from their established practices, even in the face of adversity.
Moot point since, as you said, there's no way that kind of impact would ever happen, at least not through gaming activism. Still, I just can't help but feel that the boycott talks are naive for more reasons than just the impossibility of gathering enough supporters.
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So basically, there's nothing we can do.
I kinda already knew that, but man, that's depressing. :(
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Well, you're certainly right on the gamers being crack addicts part. A "true" boycott would mean abandoning all licensed usage as well; the comics, the figures, etc. I couldn't do it. I doubt anyone here really wants to. The fan-based products can be pretty damn awesome but I couldn't go on them alone when I know I have a choice.
Except for the figures & patches, the comic and music can be acquired without giving Capcom any money. Believe me, I hate saying that as I LOVE buying things. The real key is to abandon the games, I think. I mean, the minor stuff is cool, but the main profit lies with the games themselves. Like we both said though, no chance.
So basically, there's nothing we can do.
I kinda already knew that, but man, that's depressing. :(
The boycott really is the only thing, but like Shell and I said, it's really a moot point due to the fact that you're never get enough support for fans to stop purchasing games. Only thing to do is wait for something more substantial.
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[tornado fang] off, that's not our only recourse.
We shouldn't have to back down from disappointment or betrayal. We just keep being fans and passionate about what we love. In fact, we should become even more passionate. Not because we're outraged at what Capcom is and isn't doing with Mega Man--those are just catalysts. We can do whatever we want because goddamnit, we [tornado fang]ing love Mega Man.
Look at the Sonic fanbase. That property has been dragged through [parasitic bomb] just as bad as the Mega Man franchise, if not worse. And look at the fans. They're probably about as insane and maligned as we are right now, but they've got Summer of Sonic, the Sonic Amateur Games Expo, Sonic Retro and it's freakishly awesome dedication to archiving everything Sonic and starting a fun romhacking community, collaborating with Sega of America to make SoS better in the UK and make Sonic Boom awesome over here in the 'states. All of that is [tornado fang]ing love, man. Love and fandom.
What do we want to do? Let GMOTM handle everything? Wait around for Tuttle's Legendary Tales or Mega Man X: Corrupted? It would only take a few of us to bring all of us together and make the fanbase bigger and better than it's ever been. Certainly better than how it seems to be now, in the wake of the bawfest that followed Legends 3's cancellation and MMX getting snubbed in MvC3.
I'm not saying that the MM community hasn't been doing a lot of the same stuff that the Sonic fanbase has been doing, like showing their love with fanart, fan music, and fan games, but I think we can all step it up. And it doesn't have to be a boycott. Nay, it shouldn't be a boycott. Forget it. Before we could ever hope to think of doing that, we would need to be bigger. But by the time we become bigger, we won't need to institute a crazy boycott campaign born out of sheer hatred and anger. We can just stand tall, strong, and numerous.
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Stagnation doesn't really bother me. Mega Man's plenty profitable in the long-run, and a back-burner spot has done the series good before. I can only imagine it's nerve-wracking to try and balance avoiding making games that are, essentially, different pieces of fluff on the same skeleton, while still doing that "true to its roots" thing.
Capcom made a lackluster Jojo game recently? This is the first I've heard of that, but many things are the first I've heard of since I've jumped back into the circle of news. That's really too bad. Jojo's such an amazing concept, and the Dreamcast two-in-one was so amazing I think it took #1 on my personal list of DC games. It's nice when you can play a game for months with friends and still haven't the foggiest clue how to do the coolest moves.
UMvC3 was pretty dumb after the fact. I abhor Tekken, so I avoided CxT or whatever, but I could see it being lackluster for those that would've loved it. Capcom's fighting games are always at such high risk of failing to meet potential.
It's not like Capcom is ever going to abandon any concepts. If anything they'll just pull more [parasitic bomb] out of the vault. Let's just hope that they revisit Strider proper when the time comes.
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[tornado fang] off, that's not our only recourse.
We shouldn't have to back down from disappointment or betrayal. We just keep being fans and passionate about what we love. In fact, we should become even more passionate. Not because we're outraged at what Capcom is and isn't doing with Mega Man--those are just catalysts. We can do whatever we want because goddamnit, we [tornado fang]ing love Mega Man.
How the hell is a boycott backing down? Backing down is complaining and doing nothing about it, which is exactly what Capcom fans ARE doing. A boycott is just one form of showing that you still want the quality service and games that disappeared no more than two years ago.
Look at the Sonic fanbase. That property has been dragged through [parasitic bomb] just as bad as the Mega Man franchise, if not worse. And look at the fans. They're probably about as insane and maligned as we are right now, but they've got Summer of Sonic, the Sonic Amateur Games Expo, Sonic Retro and it's freakishly awesome dedication to archiving everything Sonic and starting a fun romhacking community, collaborating with Sega of America to make SoS better in the UK and make Sonic Boom awesome over here in the 'states. All of that is [tornado fang]ing love, man. Love and fandom.
All that didn't amount to much. Newer, better quality Sonic games did. Also, Capcom fans DID have that kind of relationship with Capcom of America. It's one of the reasons they fought so hard to get TatsuCap localized for a western audience, something which was thought to be impossible due to the licenses. But they got it done. When TatsuCap, SFIV, and MvC3 were released, Capcom held tourney's in the US at certain places. I went to one at PAX East.
THIS THE POINT OF WHY CAPCOM FANS GOT SO [tornado fang]ing PISSED.
Fans had a great relationship with Capcom at one point, literally not even that long ago. THEN it finally looked like it was MM time. They announce Legends 3 and even invite fans to help make it. Shell, Jericho, Ninja Lou, Sato, and I were all witnesses to this at the NYCC. Then we all know what happens next. Fan passion and love is REALLY kinda hard to get back when they [parasitic bomb] on it in one of the most horrific PR debacles I've ever seen. Sonic fans got it back when SEGA started actually trying to make them happy again. When we get something other than Winter Apple Martini X, it will probably return.
What do we want to do? Let GMOTM handle everything? Wait around for Tuttle's Legendary Tales or Mega Man X: Corrupted? It would only take a few of us to bring all of us together and make the fanbase bigger and better than it's ever been. Certainly better than how it seems to be now, in the wake of the bawfest that followed Legends 3's cancellation and MMX getting snubbed in MvC3.
Joining together in unity is what a boycott is all about. It's a group of devoted people, with different beliefs and ideas, joining together to stand up and do something to try and improve the state of the situation they are in.
I'm not saying that the MM community hasn't been doing a lot of the same stuff that the Sonic fanbase has been doing, like showing their love with fanart, fan music, and fan games, but I think we can all step it up. And it doesn't have to be a boycott. Nay, it shouldn't be a boycott. Forget it. Before we could ever hope to think of doing that, we would need to be bigger. But by the time we become bigger, we won't need to institute a crazy boycott campaign born out of sheer hatred and anger. We can just stand tall, strong, and numerous.
So, lemme guess this straight. Your solution is for us to join together in love and essentially draw, compose, and play our troubles away? What does this accomplish? Lemme tell you what that has, thus far, accomplished...
People are already making fanart, fan music, and fan games and all we've received in return is Winter Apple Martini X, a $200 collection of music comprising of only ONE series that I would imagine the majority of us already own already, and another two remix albums from only one series. This is factoring in that the majority of MM fans continue to buy these albums, shirts, patches, comics, figures, and the other kibbles and bits they decide to feed us. MM Fan unity continuing to do what they already do out of love and passion means that Capcom clearly will see that the fans are accepting the kibbles and bits and continue half assing it and that they might never have to full ass it again with our franchise. Winter Apple Martini X and the classic series nostalgia will be all the assing they need to do. A boycott IS standing tall, strong, and numerous. It's pretty much THE last stand before backing down and just giving up. It starts from outrage but comes from passion and love for the product and service you've been a fan of for so long now.
Also, it's still early. While WAM-X and the music are frustrating, it might not be everything Capcom is planning for the 25th. We don't know yet and we can still hope that we get something much more substantial.
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I just want to say that WAM-X is a hilarious name. XD
but yeah, the whole legends 3 thing was probably the complete opposite of what pr should be. you don't announce a game fans have been clamoring for for years, let them get involved and string them along, announce a demo of sorts to gauge interest, and the CANCEL the whole thing before the prototype version made to gauge interest even has a chance and then have the gall to tell those very fans who were helping out that they weren't, that it wasn't enough.
to my knowledge, sega never did anything like that, so honestly comparing the sonic fanbase to this one isn't really a fair comparison.
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Exactly. What's sad is that CoA took to blunt of the fan psychotics when CoA had NOTHING to do with it.
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Well, from my understanding there was a whole can of worms where Capcom tried making Inafune do things he didn't want to with Legends 3. It seems to synch up with when he quit and the reasons he quoted very well.
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Where'd you hear that?
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He didn't explicitly say he quit for that reason, but I remember reading a big dissertation about a lack of quality in the industry, people keeping their positions simply because of seniority, and being pressured to change things to sell copies. Mostly all about the number of copies sold being prevalent at the earliest stages of development.
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The thing I would fear most with a boycott, is simply, with the way Capcom has been going minimal risk, milk the cash cows, a boycott would simply register as "Mega Man is no longer profitable", and result in a more PERMANENT blow to the franchise. Abandonment by Capcom.
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How the hell is a boycott backing down? Backing down is complaining and doing nothing about it, which is exactly what Capcom fans ARE doing. A boycott is just one form of showing that you still want the quality service and games that disappeared no more than two years ago.
Woops. Actually, I wasn't calling a boycott "backing down", but I should've been more clear. I was just responding to the defeated attitude of having no other recourse than an impossible carpet-bombing tactic like boycotting.
All that didn't amount to much. Newer, better quality Sonic games did.
Least they had fun in the meanwhile. Also, I have a hard time believing that the Sonic fanbase weren't in some way responsible for games like Sonic 4 and Generations. Those resulted from sheer demand.
The point isn't to magically reach some milestone that will guarantee Capcom makes a good Mega Man game for us. The point is repairing our reputation that was damaged in the wake of Legends 3, and to grow the fanbase and provide more venues for them to hang out and have a good time. It's to distract us a bit from the bitter state of the franchise, but it's also for more exposure. If we start big events ourselves, chances are Capcom will take notice and reach out to us.
Also, Capcom fans DID have that kind of relationship with Capcom of America. It's one of the reasons they fought so hard to get TatsuCap localized for a western audience, something which was thought to be impossible due to the licenses. But they got it done. When TatsuCap, SFIV, and MvC3 were released, Capcom held tourney's in the US at certain places. I went to one at PAX East.
THIS THE POINT OF WHY CAPCOM FANS GOT SO [tornado fang]ing PISSED.
Fans had a great relationship with Capcom at one point, literally not even that long ago. THEN it finally looked like it was MM time. They announce Legends 3 and even invite fans to help make it. Shell, Jericho, Ninja Lou, Sato, and I were all witnesses to this at the NYCC. Then we all know what happens next. Fan passion and love is REALLY kinda hard to get back when they [parasitic bomb] on it in one of the most horrific PR debacles I've ever seen. Sonic fans got it back when SEGA started actually trying to make them happy again. When we get something other than Winter Apple Martini X, it will probably return.
I don't doubt that, honestly.
Joining together in unity is what a boycott is all about. It's a group of devoted people, with different beliefs and ideas, joining together to stand up and do something to try and improve the state of the situation they are in.
Boycotts can also be pretty divisive. Dangerously so. Imagine the kind of damage that would wreak on the Mega Man fanbase's reputation. I guarantee it'll be many times worse than Legends 3 and UMvC3.
So, lemme guess this straight. Your solution is for us to join together in love and essentially draw, compose, and play our troubles away?
I was thinking more along the lines of starting conventions and competitive events, like Devroom-type contests, fan game/rom hack contests, speedruns, etc. Active social stuff. Stuff that gets us noticed and attracts attention, specifically of other gamers as well as Mega Man fans.
Also, it's still early. While WAM-X and the music are frustrating, it might not be everything Capcom is planning for the 25th. We don't know yet and we can still hope that we get something much more substantial.
Whatever they're planning, they're doing a shitty job of getting us even remotely hyped for anything.
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Why would one need to 'fix' Capcom? They're not broken.
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Their PR sure is. Though "Broken" ain't the [tornado fang]ing word.
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Their PR sure is. Though "Broken" ain't the [tornado fang]ing word.
Apathetic?
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Retarded?
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Weak-Minded?
I was thinking more along the lines of starting conventions and competitive events, like Devroom-type contests, fan game/rom hack contests, speedruns, etc. Active social stuff. Stuff that gets us noticed and attracts attention, specifically of other gamers as well as Mega Man fans.
However, for several times we see many a mega man sprite comic. I don't think a simple webcomic would be enough to patch the massive hole in the fanbase either. Also, mega man fangames very rarely go past the MM2 formula, being NES style at best, with once-and-a-blue-moon fangames such as Corrupted.
Also the last unique sonic fangame I've witnessed so far was an eggman-themed romhack in which you captured Sonic's animal friends per zone before the timer runs out.
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Ever played Eggman Hates Furries?
Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen as ambitious and hotly anticipated a Sonic fan game as Mega Man X Corrupted is for MM fangames.
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What about Sonic Mega Mix, or S2 HD?
Pretty sure those were pretty anticipated.
Cant say how much since I'm not really active in the Fan community like I am in the Mega Man/Castlevania one.
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Yeah. And most of the graphics in the fangames aren't the same old genesis style sprites, heard of the Modern Genesis Project for that matter?
Yeah, I have yet to see an ambitious spriting rockman project like that. Though after seeing Xover makes me wanna do it.
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I would like to say Mega Man X Next, but to be honest, while it was likely the most ambitious fan game before MMXC, it's sprites dont particularly look that great, I mean, they certainly are not amazing. X Corrupted however, looks plenty damn official, and tries pretty hard to stay within it's SNES visual style. (X Next certainly strayed pretty far from actually looking anything like the GBC X series style, color aside)
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What about Sonic Mega Mix, or S2 HD?
Megamix has been on hiatus forever now.
S2HD on the other hand, that got cancelled.
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Mega Mix is still ongoing? I thought they finished that already. Seems more like they just upgrade it whenever the [tornado fang] they feel it needs to be mixed some more.
It is a shame about S2HD. Looked good.
But my point was that at least those two projects were pretty hotly followed by the fanbase.
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Personally, I'm a fan of those hard as nails ROM hacks. Unfortunately they seem to mostly just be of Mega Man 2, at least the highest quality ones. Best thing about hacking a Wii IMO.
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S2HD on the other hand, that got cancelled.
Oh, come on.
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The thing I would fear most with a boycott, is simply, with the way Capcom has been going minimal risk, milk the cash cows, a boycott would simply register as "Mega Man is no longer profitable", and result in a more PERMANENT blow to the franchise. Abandonment by Capcom.
Well we're already teetering with that thought already.
Woops. Actually, I wasn't calling a boycott "backing down", but I should've been more clear. I was just responding to the defeated attitude of having no other recourse than an impossible carpet-bombing tactic like boycotting.
I don't know why you think a boycott is meant to be vicious. It's just another way of potentially getting them to listen or even talk when they've been ignoring us. You are right though, it is impossible.
Least they had fun in the meanwhile. Also, I have a hard time believing that the Sonic fanbase weren't in some way responsible for games like Sonic 4 and Generations. Those resulted from sheer demand.
The point isn't to magically reach some milestone that will guarantee Capcom makes a good Mega Man game for us. The point is repairing our reputation that was damaged in the wake of Legends 3, and to grow the fanbase and provide more venues for them to hang out and have a good time. It's to distract us a bit from the bitter state of the franchise, but it's also for more exposure. If we start big events ourselves, chances are Capcom will take notice and reach out to us.
Our reputation? Who gives a [parasitic bomb] about our "reputation?" Fellow nerds? Other fanbases? [tornado fang] them. It's not just the Mega Man fanbase that's pissed off with Capcom. Even the fighting scene is upset with the recent BS DLC tactics of MvC3 and Street Fighter X Tekken. This is not simply Sega pumping out bad games and then the fans complain. This is about some of the worst PR tactics I've even seen from the company. And they're still doing it. Do you really, really think us joining together for a franchise distraction is going to distract us from a [parasitic bomb] WAM-X game that the majority of fans cannot even play if they wanted? If anything, it shows that they're forgetting about the loyal fans and moving on to the Facebook/Phone/Tablet crowd.
Capcom doesn't give a [tornado fang] about our reputation either, especially since they're essentially the ones who gave the crazies their fuel. They'll do what they always do: what makes them the most money. They can [acid burst] on their fans all they want and they know if they do release something eventually, whether a standard nostalgia money maker in MM11 or an actual new game/series, we'll buy it. New fans are what they want, and it's going to take more than a new comic and us joining in unity to get some. It's going to take a new series from Capcom. It's all on them.
Boycotts can also be pretty divisive. Dangerously so. Imagine the kind of damage that would wreak on the Mega Man fanbase's reputation. I guarantee it'll be many times worse than Legends 3 and UMvC3.
So can getting together lots and lots of Mega Man fans with different ideas. The more you add to a group, the more crazies you add to a group. And again, [tornado fang] our reputation. It's irrelevant in regards to us getting a new game or not.
I was thinking more along the lines of starting conventions and competitive events, like Devroom-type contests, fan game/rom hack contests, speedruns, etc. Active social stuff. Stuff that gets us noticed and attracts attention, specifically of other gamers as well as Mega Man fans.
I'd say the Get Me Off The Moon group already handle that quite well, and their numbers are still growing I believe. That seems like the best place to get that kind of thing started. But for us to start our own conventions and competitive events? That takes both time and money, which I'd say 99% of us are unwilling and unable to contribute to. Especially towards something like a video game franchise. Other gamers already know about Mega Man and either they've moved on or, like many of us, are actually waiting for something new and innovative from the franchise.
Whatever they're planning, they're doing a shitty job of getting us even remotely hyped for anything.
That's an understatement.
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I'd say the Get Me Off The Moon group already handle that quite well, and their numbers are still growing I believe. That seems like the best place to get that kind of thing started.
Just to add on to this
108,160 likes · 2,936 talking about this
so yeah, still growing.
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I don't know why you think a boycott is meant to be vicious. It's just another way of potentially getting them to listen or even talk when they've been ignoring us. You are right though, it is impossible.
Relevant: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6187-Why-Boycotts-Fail-Where-Whining-Tantrums-Win
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I was about to post the same, that one sure popped up at an opportune time.
Extremely relevant, and slightly depressing...
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Look at it this way: he's basically vindicating whining as a legitimate form of democratic discourse. Meaning that even though whining looks terrible, it works. Sonic fans had the right idea, and they got Generations for all their trouble, even if it did unleash a bunch of crazies in the midst of it all.
@Proto: I get what you're saying, but I kinda care about promoting my fanbase as hip and cool rather than impotently whiny and overly self-entitled. I don't want to be represented by the worst we have to offer, but then that's not really up to me. Capcom might not care, but I do.
I guess you just have to take the good with the bad and make the best of it. That's kinda what I was going for with all this talk about activism. Things like cons, contests, and meetups are meant to be positive outlets for our feelings about the franchise and, by extension, Capcom. They're also meant to connect to the outside world a bit more, which is always nice. Especially if it means we can mend the frayed relations between our Street Fighter and Resident Evil peers, whether we share the same feelings about them and how Capcom's handling them or not.
Frankly, though, this is just me talking to read myself talk. RPM's got a lot of fangames being made and TMMN has always got people submitting artwork. MMX9's got that Sigma Body contest going on now, and we're all already well aware of what GMOTM is doing. Better that I start something myself and talk about it than talk about seeing other people do cool [parasitic bomb].
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I watched that video, and--Capcom actually listened to the fans about something? Wha?!
Oh, and Treleus: you realize that if our reputation does improve, the dickheads at PRC and TMMN who laugh at the other commenters and brag about how much better they are--they'll just find something else to try and shame us over.
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Oh, and Treleus: you realize that if our reputation does improve, the dickheads at PRC and TMMN who laugh at the other commenters and brag about how much better they are--they'll just find something else to try and shame us over.
Well,
[tornado fang] them.
EDIT: No, honestly I was intending that we'd all pitch in, since we're all fans, but I figure everyone here knows that.
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Look at it this way: he's basically vindicating whining as a legitimate form of democratic discourse. Meaning that even though whining looks terrible, it works. Sonic fans had the right idea, and they got Generations for all their trouble, even if it did unleash a bunch of crazies in the midst of it all.
Sonic also has that CARRAZZEY Sonic CD iOS port that was aided by a fan (and dominates the MMX port). Maybe if Capcom got the "don't fix what ain't broke" and "bigger the stuff, bigger the money" gig out of their heads, then there's a possible chance that oh, I don't know, if the fans started doing the same thing of instead of consistant bitching and whining, and think over it. A "what can we do to fix this?" scenario.
Such as:
Showing Capcom we care by putting more effort into our fanwork, I actually have noticed quite a drop of activity in that department there for quite some time now.. As what comes around, goes around. When was the last time we put helluva much effort into something..? Legends 3? MMX: Corrupted? Get Me Off The Moon? The Megas?
Yeah, basically what I'm going here is that there's a good chance that the product will get BETTER if we actually SHOW we care, not just yell at them.
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The Sonic CD iOS port by Christian "The Taxman" Whitehead is a fantastic illustration of what I'm getting at. Not only was it a dedicated goal achieved by a passionate fan, but it was good enough to get recognized by SEGA. A few months later, it releases on the very system he designed it for: iOS. Proving once and for all that iOS ports do not have to be shitty ports or cheap casual games, and fans do not only have whining or ill-fated boycotts as a recourse to discontent with a company like Capcom.
So basically one of us has to effectively port one of or the entire SNES X series (and the PSX series while we're at it) onto the iOS and, if Capcom has the slightest bit of business sense among them, they will not issue a C&D and instead work with us on it to get it out. The port could even fixes some of things that were wrong with the X games, like how the Double Shot stops you dead when you fire them or the retarded boss AI in X3.
Sonic fans had Sonic Genesis on the GBA as a precedent to how poorly SEGA can botch a simple port. They follow up with a successful port of a SEGA CD game to the latest popular mobile device, and there you go. We have MMX on iOS.
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Didnt the CD port also add Tails as a playable character and make the special stages smoother or something?
X3 port could add playable Zero. XD
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After thinking about it a little more, I don't think we can fix the direction of Megaman by complaining, since it's basically not bad enough to warrant a massive outcry like Mass Effect's ending and on-disc DLC did. Cutting Legends 3 would've done it if anything, but...
And in general, Capcom's games aren't actually bad, they're just not what we want. They're in this sort of, muddy, safe, grey zone.
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Basically a muddy haze of action, horror, and fightan' games. Not to say that any of those aren't fun. They just have details that are easy for people to harp on.
DMC? New design.
Resident Evil? Combat spinoff from minigame with no saves
MvC3? No "actual" Mega Man; also DLC and UMvC3 shenanigans which aren't that bad
SFxT? I've heard issues about balance and whatnot; also Fat Mega Man (which I thought was awesome btw) and more DLC shenanigans
Dragon's Dogma? Derivative.
None of these are actually terrible games. The more we realize that, the less alienating we'll be as disgruntled Mega Man fans. The fact is that, yeah, we got screwed over, it was a low blow, it wasn't fair, and Capcom should make amends. But our problem is the majority of Mega Man fans have been taking it out on anything and everything Capcom has been doing on what seems like the barest or most irrelevant of grounds, and so people are not taking us seriously. Worse yet, they've lost all sympathy for what happened with Legends 3. They just go into "Legends is [parasitic bomb]" and "It's the fan's fault" mode and brush it aside like it means nothing--which is true for them. It doesn't mean anything. Just another bunch of whiny fans that need to shut up and will be ignored.
Complaining is fine, but only if it stays on point. We're angry at Capcom for cancelling Legends 3 & the Prototype. That's it. And we're a little insulted by the MMX iOS and Rockman Xover offerings as of yet, and at the ridiculously expensive E-can soundtrack compilation, but if they bring in more money and more fans, fine. Let Capcom separate some cash to their mobile departments to make those games happen. But we're going to let you know we think it's [parasitic bomb] and we want better from them. Jim Sterling is right: threatening boycotts sends the wrong message and punishes developers, not the publisher. Buy what you want and don't go into crusader mode making other people feel bad about buying games they like or they want. That'll just make you look like a bit of an ass if you can't back it up with good reasons they'd listen to.
Hell, if I decide to get an iPhone. I'll put money down for both MMX iOS and Rockman Xover just so I can [sonic slicer] about how shitty it is, and show everyone else how much it sucks and why. I might even be fair to the game and point out it's good parts. How about that?
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DLC and UMvC3 shenanigans which aren't that bad
dunno bout you, but those were PRETTY damn bad.
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Admittedly I didn't pay much attention, since I couldn't buy the game anyways. Too stingy for Steam I guess.
What was that about again? Locked disc content you have to purchase to unlock? It's uh, kinda bullshit I guess, but I honestly don't have much of an opinion about that. Now, I did think UMvC3 was bullshit; locked or not, THAT should've been DLC and basic product support. Wankers.
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UMVC3 should have been the full damn game, instead they released an incomplete version at full price, then shortly after, the complete version, at a slightly reduced price, with no kind of actual deal for people who bought the original, now obsolete and useless version. And it had On disc DLC if I'm remembering right. It was all kinds of bullshit, and completely unacceptable.
On the matter of on disc DLC- if it's on the disc, it shouldnt be DLC. It ISN'T DLC. It should be part of the default game, or just not part of the disc so it can be DLC proper, not just making you pay extra for content you already paid for.
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None of these are actually terrible games. The more we realize that, the less alienating we'll be as disgruntled Mega Man fans. The fact is that, yeah, we got screwed over, it was a low blow, it wasn't fair, and Capcom should make amends. But our problem is the majority of Mega Man fans have been taking it out on anything and everything Capcom has been doing on what seems like the barest or most irrelevant of grounds, and so people are not taking us seriously. Worse yet, they've lost all sympathy for what happened with Legends 3. They just go into "Legends is [parasitic bomb]" and "It's the fan's fault" mode and brush it aside like it means nothing--which is true for them. It doesn't mean anything. Just another bunch of whiny fans that need to shut up and will be ignored.
Complaining is fine, but only if it stays on point. We're angry at Capcom for cancelling Legends 3 & the Prototype. That's it. And we're a little insulted by the MMX iOS and Rockman Xover offerings as of yet, and at the ridiculously expensive E-can soundtrack compilation, but if they bring in more money and more fans, fine. Let Capcom separate some cash to their mobile departments to make those games happen. But we're going to let you know we think it's [parasitic bomb] and we want better from them. Jim Sterling is right: threatening boycotts sends the wrong message and punishes developers, not the publisher. Buy what you want and don't go into crusader mode making other people feel bad about buying games they like or they want. That'll just make you look like a bit of an ass if you can't back it up with good reasons they'd listen to.
Hell, if I decide to get an iPhone. I'll put money down for both MMX iOS and Rockman Xover just so I can [sonic slicer] about how shitty it is, and show everyone else how much it sucks and why. I might even be fair to the game and point out it's good parts. How about that?
While I do agree that the fans who bitched about everything were annoying, what the outside gaming world doesn't understand is that it wasn't just the cancellation that was the problem. It was also the major bullshit that came before it. The hype, the fan involvement, THEN the pay to play prototype which they said would determine if the game gets released, based on sales. Then, even though the idea behind that was absurdly bullshit, they don't even release THAT and instead just cancellation. That's what made MM fans go crazy.
As for you buying those insults, that's exactly why complaining yields nothing when it comes to gamers.
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If you buy X iOS and Xover, even if you complain about them, yknow what the only thing Capcom will hear coming out of your mouth is?
"kaching kaching kaching"
Because you still bought it, and therefore proved to them that it was a successful product.
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While I do agree that the fans who bitched about everything were annoying, what the outside gaming world doesn't understand is that it wasn't just the cancellation that was the problem. It was also the major bullshit that came before it. The hype, the fan involvement, THEN the pay to play prototype which they said would determine if the game gets released, based on sales. Then, even though the idea behind that was absurdly bullshit, they don't even release THAT and instead just cancellation. That's what made MM fans go crazy.
Oh yeah, man. Absolutely. Preaching to the choir on this one. But that's what most people don't understand because they don't know it. The only way to know it was to be a fan who got involved, so for anyone who didn't and thinks they can pass judgment, they can shut the [tornado fang] up.
As for you buying those insults, that's exactly why complaining yields nothing when it comes to gamers.
If you buy X iOS and Xover, even if you complain about them, yknow what the only thing Capcom will hear coming out of your mouth is?
"kaching kaching kaching"
Because you still bought it, and therefore proved to them that it was a successful product.
Even if I didn't buy them, lots of other people who are either iPhone fans, Mega Man fans, or both, will buy them anyways. It's an inclusive albeit intersecting set of people that Capcom's aiming for with this game, not primarily Mega Man fans who don't own an iPhone. My purchase will make a miniscule, negligent difference, but my voice can travel much farther than my $5. At least if I experience it for myself and give it a legitimate thrashing, my voice can at least be taken seriously and propagate.
In the meantime, all I can do is give my negative impressions of the previews of the game that are available. Until then, I can't say it's definitely a bad game without someone else saying, "WELL HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED IT," and they'd be right.
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That is assuming anyone would listen to you. Granted most people are pretty impressionable, (thats how internet game/movie reviewers make money) but many people would probably want to judge for themselves, or just wont know who you are. Unless you have some widely trafficked blog, or some show, your voice will only be heard within the Mega Man community, and theres already plenty of talk in it over how bad this game is, or your circle of friends/relatives.
On the other hand, miniscule or not, buying it is still buing it, and you still contributed to it's success. So when Capcom unleashes yet another flush of the toilet iOS filter game X, you would have been part of the problem.
I see what you mean, but I just dont think it's worth it. You would also be throwing away money on a bad game.
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That is assuming anyone would listen to you.
No one important would.
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I dunno, guys. All a fire needs is some flammable mat and a spark. Word of mouth is like that and can say many things. Money isn't so flexible.
Also I got hired as a news contributor for Twinfinite, so I got that to look forward to as well.
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This whole thing is just a giant marketing scheme by Capcom.
What ruined Megaman's appeal? I'll tell you what, it was too many sequels! Capcom wants to pull a Street Fighter and stop making Megaman games for 10 years, then release THE BIG ONE. That's right, everything that has been happening / not happening lately has just been there to tease us and make us think they're completely incompetent. But just wait you guys. Just wait.
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And it's a good thing that Capcom treats its employees well and would listen to them if they wanted to revive Megaman!
...wait.
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The best part of Street Fighter 4 was Oiled-Up Daddy.
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Word of mouth is like that and can say many things.
It can SAY many things. Doesnt mean anyone will listen.
Case in point 100,000 Strong. They've been really vocal, and reached well over 100,000- Do we have Legends 3?
No.
Also I got hired as a news contributor for Twinfinite, so I got that to look forward to as well.
I also have no idea what that is.
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It can SAY many things. Doesnt mean anyone will listen.
I think the main problem is that we're up against Capcom, who only listens to the SF and RE fans.
You can claim that nothing we say or do will have any effect on anything, but AFAIK Capcom's reputation has all but been completely destroyed. That's got to count for something.
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Really though, if Capcom doesn't want to make Megaman anymore why are you trying to force them? Don't be so selfish.
Spreading rumours, complaining to anyone who will listen...
In playing the victim, perhaps the fans have become the bully?
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Because why should Capcom be held accountable for what it's done lately?
AA, shut up.
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How has Capcom Unity been for the past few years? I remember they were doing a great job of reaching out to fans last I'd seen.
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Really though, if Capcom doesn't want to make Megaman anymore why are you trying to force them? Don't be so selfish.
Spreading rumours, complaining to anyone who will listen...
In playing the victim, perhaps the fans have become the bully?
Keep in mind that Capcom of Japan is responsible for Mega Man/Rock Man.
I think the bigger issue is that we're bugging the wrong people.
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CoA's mingle with the fans forum must require a lot of [tornado fang]ing patience, I'd imagine.
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Keep in mind that Capcom of Japan is responsible for Mega Man/Rock Man.
I think the bigger issue is that we're bugging the wrong people.
I think the bigger issue is that, quite frankly, they don't care.
From the sounds of things the higher ups were never really interested in making more Megaman but Inafune kept bugging them until they just gave in. He left and they had the chance to stop making the game they never really wanted to in the first place.
I don't see the problem here. I was over a year ago now, just let it go.
As for Xover, if you don't want it then don't get it. It's become apparent now that Capcom won't listen so ever take what you can get or, well, keep wasting your time. That's cool I guess. Whatever ever makes you feel better.
AA, shut up.
It's funny to see that from you, the one who threw a bitchfit over a simple word.
All I was doing was posting my opinion. Is that now allowed now?
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It's funny to see that from you, the one who threw a bitchfit over a simple word.
All I was doing was posting my opinion. Is that now allowed now?
That "simple word" was a pejorative and you were clearly using it as such.
I wouldn't mind you voicing your opinion if you weren't being such an unlikable dick about it.
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That "simple word" was a pejorative and you were clearly using it as such.
I wouldn't mind you voicing your opinion if you weren't being such an unlikable dick about it.
There's no need to resort to insult me just because you don't like me. Haven't you ever heard that the best thing to do is to ignore them? It always amuses me how no one here ever does.
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Most of your posts have been coming across as deliberately inflammatory...but I get visibly angry at you once or twice, and I'm the one who needs to go sit in the corner?
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Hey, hey. I just wanted to interject my view on the issue. No need to argue semantics now.
The last thing we need is to become antagonistic towards each other.
Assemu Assuno is as free to express his opinion as anyone else in this forum, no matter how stupid and ignorant it may seem.
Focus guys! It's the problem we're attacking, not each other!
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What one word did Gonzo take offense to?
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Does it matter?
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He's got a point. Can't force someone to do what they don't want. But I don't think we should be trying to force them into anything. You attract more bees with honey than with gall.
As for people not listening to 100,000 Strong: first of all, most people aren't impressed with 100,000. To them it's still niche and inconsequential, despite being more successful than the relatively better received (?) OpRainfall or OpMoonfall. Also most people aren't that impressed with Legends relative to Majora's Mask or Xenoblade/The Last Story. They (we) have to deal with those disadvantages.
This whole thing is just a giant marketing scheme by Capcom.
What ruined Megaman's appeal? I'll tell you what, it was too many sequels! Capcom wants to pull a Street Fighter and stop making Megaman games for 10 years, then release THE BIG ONE. That's right, everything that has been happening / not happening lately has just been there to tease us and make us think they're completely incompetent. But just wait you guys. Just wait.
And lo, on the 8th year of the eclipse ...
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Does it matter?
Yes
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What one word did Gonzo take offense to?
I've long since dropped the matter, so don't worry about it.
As for Capcom...I'm honestly not sure what we should do. They only seem to listen to whoever throws the most money at them, but at the same time, the MM fans aren't being given as many chances to hand them our money as the SF or RE guys. What we're getting is either too expensive (like, $200+), or not very good, or both.
(Sorry if what I'm saying is obvious and redundant.)
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I've long since dropped the matter, so don't worry about it.
Awww, but now I'm so cuurious
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Awww, but now I'm so cuurious
great, now you've killed a cat
cat-killer
>:|
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I think the main problem is that we're up against Capcom, who only listens to the SF and RE fans.
It's more like, they listen to the fans of what currently is selling well. Remember that just a little while back Street Fighter fans were in the same boat as Megaman fans are in now, until Ono finally got them to make SFIV.
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And the whole way through, everyone was pressuring him to drop SF 4, because it was an unwanted product. They wanted him to work on something more profitable.
Unfortunately, "that guy" for the Mega Man series, quit already. And till someone fills those shoes, Capcom wont have to make any Mega Man games they dont want to.