Author Topic: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?  (Read 5167 times)

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Offline Zan

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Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« on: March 04, 2014, 02:56:33 AM »
Little is known about the interim between the Mega Man and Mega Man X series. An official outline of events does exist, but the developers prefer to leave matters to our own imaginations [1]. With this topic, I hope to piece together the fragmented bits of information we have on this elusive time period, supplying reference whenever needed.


Time Travel
Our first glimpse of the future comes courtesy of Quint. That enigmatic robot is actually Mega Man himself [2]!
 

Mega Man and Mega Man?

For those unfamiliar with the story of “World 2”, Wily once stole an experimental time machine from a time-space research lab and used it to spy on Mega Man’s future *1.

He arrived in a peaceful world, free of conflict, in which an older Wily had reformed and Rock had reverted back into a household robot [3]. By conspiring with his future self, Wily kidnapped Rock and turned him into Quint before returning to the present.

So what does this mean for Mega Man’s future? Will Rock inevitably become Quint? What happened afterward?

“Challenger from the Future”, despite it's questionable status in the canon, does give us a little more insight [4]. In that game, we’re introduced to yet another time travelling foe. While many confuse him for Quint, “Mega Man Shadow” is actually another robot from Quint's future time, made in Mega Man’s image.
 

Mega Man Shadow and the Dimensions.

When he arrived in the past and attacked Symphony City, Shadow told the following: the future Wily has not given up on his ambition of world conquest.

A lie, however. In his dying breath Shadow admits that Wily truthfully did not continue his evil ways. Though, he does reveal a bleak future in which Shadow himself became mad with power, desired to destroy the world, and faced ever stronger foes until no-one remained to stop him.

In the end, Bass and Rock both learn valuable lessons from Shadow’s tale. They vow not to go down this same path. Their determination gives us hope that perhaps, and only perhaps, Rock will not become Quint and a new future may be written.



Mega Man
The fate of our hero is officially unknown. Though it may seem destined for Rock to become Quint and meet a poetic demise in battle against himself, this future represents only a possibility. As changes from the past ripple onward into the future, so too might the present stray from this set path *2.
 

Mega Man and Quint in a heated battle for the future.

Using our imagination, limitless scenarios can serve to explain Mega Man’s absence from the X-series. While we know that Rock did not become Mega Man X (they're separate entities) [7] [27] [28], one other explanation in particular has acquired much infamy over the years.

As many fans have asked: did Zero kill Mega Man? And if he did, who else?

Keiji Inafune’s personal stance is that Zero did NOT in fact kill anyone. It’s not in his profile [5]. Furthermore, the man has expressed a great distaste for excessive violence in the classic series [6]. Also let us not underestimate Mega Man in a theoretical battle against Zero.

Though Zero is a fearsome robot built by the late Dr. Wily as his most advanced creation ever, designed specifically to outclass any other robot of 20XX - including the original Megaman [26]. Zero can still suffer defeat against an enemy with strength of heart [29] (as well as many allies). Remember, just as Wily created Zero, Light created X. As X can be considered a more advanced version of Mega Man [28] (equipped with the Mega Buster Mk. 17). Dr. Light may very well put X’s weapon and armor technology to good use if Rock requires such an upgrade, echoing the events of "Mega Man V" (Rockman World 5)



Magnum Opus
 

Light and Wily – eternal rivals – conversing their dying wishes to their last creations.

Dr. Light is remembered in history as “the father of robotics” [8], Dr. Wily as “the legendary mad scientist” [9].

Despite their differences, Wily and Light lived the last days of their lives in clear parallel. They both completed their magnum opus in secret before passing on. Dr. Light left a program with his personality to play back messages for X (which, for all intents and purposes, is the good doctor in person), whereas Dr. Wily was brought back by the virus [10] (perchance as Serges and/or Isoc, but most certainly as the ‘Old Man’ from X5). A hundred years into the future, the two continue to deliver aid in their own unique ways.
 

X and Zero, parallels in every way.



Humans and robots
The groundwork laid by Dr. Light led to further technological developments over the course of a century. Though certain robot designs have withstood the test of time with minor changes (Mettaurs [11] and Battons [12]) others were quickly replaced, like how state-of-the-art phones become obsolete in less than a decade [13].

Still, a century later, little progress has been made in the field of humanoid robots until Cain’s creation of the Reploids. In “Maverick Hunter X”, Dr. Light gives us a plausible explanation why: not only does he have no one to carry on his work, humanity is not yet ready to accept a robot as humanlike as X. They fear the dangers he represents.

This should come as no surprise: not only did the world suffer great fear through Dr. Wily’s repeated attempts of world domination [14], invincible combats robots have also been used as weapons of war [15].
 

X doing battle with the invincible combat robots of bygone days.

While Light never doubted X’s reliability for a minute, it took thirty years of ethical testing to persuade others of that fact.



Mega Man X
As early as The Power Battle, Dr. Light mentioned how robots don’t just need to increase their physical strength; they need to improve their cognitive programs. He spoke about giving robots the ability “to worry”. Like humans, they need to determine what is right and wrong by themselves [16] *4.
 

What robots truly need!

The first robot granted this experimental ability is Mega Man X, whose very name (the variable “X”) represents “Limitless Potential.” Created with a much more advanced A.I., he is Mega Man's successor [27].

One little known fact is that the original Japanese manual contains an extended version of X1’s “Warning” message:
 

WARNING

In it, Dr. Light ascribes X’s humanlike A.I. to “the act of worrying”. If extended to matters that by nature must not be questioned (e.g. if robot were to harm a human deliberately) the result would be disastrous. Humankind would tremble with fear, the like of which was unknown even in the days of the Dr. Wily incidents [14].

Though X “worries” most of all (as said in “Maverick Hunter X” *5), the Reploids have in fact inherited his ability. Based on X’s data and equipped with a “suffering circuit”, as to be biased toward neither side, they are fated to continuously worry about which side in society they should stand upon [17]. This is what gives him the ability to think, reason and act totally independently [27]. Older robots, despite having a conscience, personality and emotions [18], do not possess the same ability to disobey their human masters [19].

While Dr. Light always kept a positive outlook on the future – seeing X as the world’s hope and dreaming of human-robot coexistence – he was also a cautious man. Not only did he seal X away for 30 years ethical testing and limited X’s strength whenever possible, he also anticipated X would do battle against robots infected by computer viruses. To that end, he equipped X with the perfect virus countermeasure [20] *9. The good doctor may have dabbled in very dangerous research, he understood the risks well and took every precaution to prevent the worst possible outcome.


 
Zero
As a robot possessing impressive A.I. and an infinite Bassnium power source [19], Bass has gone against his own creator several times. His accidental creation and subsequent defiance led to Dr. Wily developing an energy stronger than Bassnium (the Maverick Virus, presumably) and a robot more powerful than Bass or Mega Man, or anyone.
 

ZERO

Chronologically, Zero first appeared in The Power Fighters when Wily showed his design to Bass (X2 form, X3 buster, no Z-saber). However, it would be some time before Wily completed this project. It would also appear that Wily ran into some difficulties. *4

Zero (X1 design) contained a flaw in his cognitive program that made him violent and unwilling to obey instructions (like Bass). For this very reason, Dr. Wily himself sealed Zero in a capsule [21] [26] *6 *9.

In 21XX, an unknown computer virus (a subspecies of Roboenza) emerged from the capsule Zero slumbered in and began driving robots mad locally [22] *7 *9. Later Zero awoke from his capsule and wiped out Garma’s unit of Maverick Hunters before doing battle with Sigma. During this confrontation, the virus infected both of them at the same time (bypassing Zero’s imperfect virus countermeasure / antibodies through a breach in his armour). This event led to Zero’s personality changing completely. Reborn as a good Reploid, he joined the Maverick Hunters [17] [23] [26] *8 *9.

Since the above may seem contradictory. It’s important to note that the Maverick Virus serves a double purpose. First, when negated by his anti-virus systems, it empowers Zero to near invincibility. Second, through direct application (X2) or overexposure (X5), the virus awakens Zero’s true self. Thereby the Maverick Hunter is not the end product of virus infection, but rather an intermediate state born from attempted correction of the Irregular Zero. Awakened Zero (not Irregular Zero) is the strongest robot Wily envisioned, subservient to his cause.
 

Awakened Zero, powerful, calm, collected, and under Wily’s control.



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« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 06:27:28 AM by Zan »

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2014, 05:52:55 AM »
Very nice read.

Offline Rin

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2014, 05:56:43 AM »
You know, I originally just wanted to say "why do you even care".
But after some thought, I suppose it's not a bad thing to have something like this.
That, and it must have taken you some time to piece the info together.

However, despite all that, I still have to wonder: "Why does it matter?" Aside from MAYBE Zero/ZX all of the Megaman games are bullshit in terms of plot. I won't try to stop you from theorizing but...
Well, maybe it's just my grumpy personality but I just don't feel it. The plot of the games is so [tornado fang]ing terrible, mostly because they just kept tucking on [parasitic bomb] with each of the games.
Dunno, maybe it's just the sleepless night getting to me, I don't know if this post even has a point.
I just felt like saying something more than just an assholish comment, eh.
Whatever.

Offline Mirby

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2014, 06:01:05 AM »
All I thought of when I first saw this topic was that damn cataclysm theory lol
OH [parasitic bomb] IM USING LINK AND I ACCIDENTALLY FINAL SMASHED A CUCCO OH GOD HELP
Just enjoy yourself, don't complain about everything

Offline Zan

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2014, 01:35:20 PM »
Quote
However, despite all that, I still have to wonder: "Why does it matter?" Aside from MAYBE Zero/ZX all of the Megaman games are bullshit in terms of plot. I won't try to stop you from theorizing but...
Well, maybe it's just my grumpy personality but I just don't feel it. The plot of the games is so [tornado fang]ing terrible, mostly because they just kept tucking on [parasitic bomb] with each of the games.

Yes, I agree, the plot does have severe issues for the very reason you describe.

They're games, old ones at that.

From classic all throughout the X-series, each entry is a standalone story, with limited opportunities for actual storytelling. Plus Capcom spread the franchise far too thin across too many different development teams, unhinging several core themes.

However, the "Mega Man" and "Mega Man X" games always did have something special about them. Not just its gameplay and music, but also its colorful characters and setting.

Far more than the story of the games, its the efforts of people like Yoshihiro Iwamoto, Hitoshi Ariga, Ian Flynn (and also the devoted fan!) who use their own imagination to capture that 'magic' while providing a coherent plot at the same. If you haven't already, I urge you to pick up a copy of Gigamix Volume 2. It's a great example of how to combine scattered pieces of lore into an epic.

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2014, 03:21:46 AM »
Zero
As a robot possessing impressive A.I. and an infinite Bassnium power source [19], Bass has gone against his own creator several times. His accidental creation and subsequent defiance led to Dr. Wily developing an energy stronger than Bassnium (the Maverick Virus, presumably) and a robot more powerful than Bass or Mega Man.
I consider the Maverick Virus to be separate from the Bassnium derivative/refinement that was key to Zero's construction.  The fact that Zero essentially suffers a more extreme version of Bass's malfunction prior to viral infection seems to point to a tie between them independent of the virus.  The implication I take from that is that the Maverick Virus is probably the "other project" that Wily references in the Power Fighters ending, especially if he's already expecting Zero to take a long time to complete.

While the virus can create an obvious power reaction with Zero (see X5), I consider it more of a supplement or a catalyst.  Something that draws out what was buried beneath the surface, not unlike X's armors or Weil's "upgrades" to Omega.  If it was core to Zero's power, it would cast X's use of it into suspect (X3, X6, and quite possibly the interim between the X and Zero series).  Project X Zone depicts Zero's power responding to his emotional state in a similar manner to X in The Day of Sigma, as well.  Further, the virus is taken out of the equation from Mother Elf's creation onward, yet Zero continues to show "terrifying fighting skills" (Copy X's words in Z3).  Zero's potential certainly runs deeper than his infection status.

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Offline Soultrigger

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2014, 12:56:53 PM »
You know, I originally just wanted to say "why do you even care".
But after some thought, I suppose it's not a bad thing to have something like this.
That, and it must have taken you some time to piece the info together.

However, despite all that, I still have to wonder: "Why does it matter?" Aside from MAYBE Zero/ZX all of the Megaman games are bullshit in terms of plot. I won't try to stop you from theorizing but...
Well, maybe it's just my grumpy personality but I just don't feel it. The plot of the games is so [tornado fang]ing terrible, mostly because they just kept tucking on [parasitic bomb] with each of the games.
Dunno, maybe it's just the sleepless night getting to me, I don't know if this post even has a point.
I just felt like saying something more than just an assholish comment, eh.
Whatever.
Nah, I agree that as far as stories go, classic and X have much to be desired.

While I respect the effort that went into the research, I much prefer the gap not being bridged. Classic and X are just so unalike in terms of tone that it seems odd for either to reference each other beyond a few key acknowledgements.

Quote
Humans and robots
The groundwork laid by Dr. Light led to further technological developments over the course of a century. Though certain robot designs have withstood the test of time with minor changes (Mettaurs [11] and Battons [12]) others were quickly replaced, like how state-of-the-art phones become obsolete in less than a decade [13].
If I had to throw my own fan theory out there, I'd wager Mega Man and co just decided to deactivate themselves. It doesn't make sense for them to die or whatever in some epic battle when classic, due to its episodic nature, never intends to finish in the first place.


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Offline Blue Valkyrie

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2014, 02:28:03 PM »
The quint theory always made the most sense personally, it's a subtle way of having classic mega man bow out of the spotlight.

Offline Align

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2014, 09:42:54 PM »
Neat.

Offline Zan

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2014, 05:57:30 AM »
Quote
I consider the Maverick Virus to be separate from the Bassnium derivative/refinement that was key to Zero's construction.  The fact that Zero essentially suffers a more extreme version of Bass's malfunction prior to viral infection seems to point to a tie between them independent of the virus.  The implication I take from that is that the Maverick Virus is probably the "other project" that Wily references in the Power Fighters ending, especially if he's already expecting Zero to take a long time to complete.

The context of their discussion is threefold:
-Forte's disobedience.
-Creation of the strongest robot, Zero.
-Creation of an energy stronger than Fortenium.

Within that context, the "other project" is not only the new energy, but it is also the Sigma Virus which corrects Zero's behavior. Nothing else fits the reference.

Remember, Zero does not run Fortenium. His body contains a common solar or atomic generator. Overt displays of raw power do not fit his fighting style, lest he comes into contact with the virus first.

To paraphrase X5:
When the virus infiltrates his systems, it does not turn him into an Irregular. It instead clears his mind. A tremendous power fills his body. A power from the virus. The virus purifies his body.

I think you and I can both agree this is Zero's one true and greatest form.

Now, we can go to great lengths to theorize how perhaps Zero does not just absorb the Sigma Virus. Perhaps it's indeed caused by some sort catalysis: like a prototypical variation of Convergent Ignition by Energen Linkage [to Cyber-Elves]. No matter how you cut it: by Zero's unique reaction to the virus, he produces a power far beyond Fortenium and becomes the strongest robot Wily spoke of. In this form, he may yet conquer Right's ultimate creation... and his limitless potential.

I do agree, however, that Zero's primary ability (as utilized in gameplay) comes from within. Both of body and of mind, his strength has triumphed over many foes across three different eras. From Learning Ability, to the Form System, to sheer raw specs, Zero's a force to be reckoned with. Still, it's only when combined with an external superpower that we see his full potential unleashed. That, after all, was the very basis of Dr. Vile's Project Elpis.

Quote
If I had to throw my own fan theory out there, I'd wager Mega Man and co just decided to deactivate themselves. It doesn't make sense for them to die or whatever in some epic battle when classic, due to its episodic nature, never intends to finish in the first place.

I must ask, why does Rockman have to die? Sure, he's not around in 21XX or any other of the later eras of Earth history, but his fate is not so set in stone. A whole universe of possibility exists.

Offline Soultrigger

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2014, 10:17:50 AM »
I must ask, why does Rockman have to die? Sure, he's not around in 21XX or any other of the later eras of Earth history, but his fate is not so set in stone. A whole universe of possibility exists.
I'm not saying he has to "die", but it's one of the simplest ways to explain his, as well as everyone else's in classic series, absence in future series. I mean, he could go out into space with Duo, but what about Roll/Proto Man/Bass/etc.?

Considering Mega Man II (GB) is seen as one of the worst in the series (reinforced by Inafune's OCW comment and the lack of Quint in MM10), I'd have to question using Mega Man II's canon as a means to explain the extremely important gap between classic and X. Time travel is one of the worst things you can tack onto a fictional setting (that is to say, time travel only really works when the world revolves around it like Back to the Future or Zelda OoT/MM, and not some silly cop-out e.g. The Prisoner of Azkaban).


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Offline Blue Valkyrie

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2014, 01:49:57 PM »
Considering Mega Man II (GB) is seen as one of the worst in the series (reinforced by Inafune's OCW comment and the lack of Quint in MM10), I'd have to question using Mega Man II's canon as a means to explain the extremely important gap between classic and X. Time travel is one of the worst things you can tack onto a fictional setting (that is to say, time travel only really works when the world revolves around it like Back to the Future or Zelda OoT/MM, and not some silly cop-out e.g. The Prisoner of Azkaban).

The quality of the game it's self shouldn't have any baring on the plot of the series though, I also very much disagree a franchise does not need to revolve around time travel for such a plot element to work. TV shows like Star Trek are not time travel centric at all yet some of the memorable episodes have used this element to great effect. Besides we've seen several robot masters with limited time based powers before, it's not like that plot element came out of no where.

Offline Soultrigger

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2014, 11:43:03 AM »
The quality of the game it's self shouldn't have any baring on the plot of the series though,
It should: that's why retcons exist.

Neither Wand of Gamelon or Faces of Evil are acknowledged on the official Zelda timeline, and yet they both exist.

Then again, Other M wants to pretend the Prime trilogy didn't exist.  -AC

I also very much disagree a franchise does not need to revolve around time travel for such a plot element to work. TV shows like Star Trek are not time travel centric at all yet some of the memorable episodes have used this element to great effect.
I've never watched Star Trek before, so I can't dispute its execution of time travel.

Even then, I don't think time travel works well with fictional universes that have a well-established continuity, the reason being because it introduces a very, very powerful rule-changing tool that easily changes everything.

For instance, what happened to time travel technology post-Classic series? Why doesn't X just go in the past and destroy Sigma before he starts his Maverick rebellion? Why don't X or Zero just go back and stop Magma Dragoon from framing Repliforce and starting the war in X4? Suddenly, with the existence of time travel, a lot of things become trivialized.

Besides we've seen several robot masters with limited time based powers before, it's not like that plot element came out of no where.
We've seen limited time slowing and time freezing abilities, but not time travel. Existing time manipulation abilities also occasionally had alternative explanations, such as Flash Stopper simply "blinding" enemies but giving the appearance of stopping time.

It's one thing to say someone has the ability to move really fast, it's another thing to say someone can move freely in time.


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Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2014, 12:52:44 AM »
Quote
TV shows like Star Trek are not time travel centric at all yet some of the memorable episodes have used this element to great effect.

Some of the worst as well.

Offline Blue Valkyrie

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2014, 08:49:52 PM »
It should: that's why retcons exist. Neither Wand of Gamelon or Faces of Evil are acknowledged on the official Zelda timeline, and yet they both exist.

Even then, I don't think time travel works well with fictional universes that have a well-established continuity, the reason being because it introduces a very, very powerful rule-changing tool that easily changes everything.

For instance, what happened to time travel technology post-Classic series? Why doesn't X just go in the past and destroy Sigma before he starts his Maverick rebellion? Why don't X or Zero just go back and stop Magma Dragoon from framing Repliforce and starting the war in X4? Suddenly, with the existence of time travel, a lot of things become trivialized.

The main reason CDI games aren't acknowledged because they weren't made by Nintendo plus there is nothing to retcon they never fit in with the other games at the time to begin with.

Maybe time travel was banned, or the technology was lost over the years, seems to happen a lot in this franchise. I get what you mean but in the end it depends on the writer a good franchise is adaptable and can work with any plot point as long as it's well introduced, maybe mega man isn't a good example. >.>

Some of the worst as well.

True, with so many episodes it's hard not to have some stinkers here or there, most of the worst episodes weren't time travel related though, just voyager related. XD

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2014, 08:57:10 PM »
True, with so many episodes it's hard not to have some stinkers here or there, most of the worst episodes weren't time travel related though, just voyager related. XD

The one were Data goes back in time isn't really that good. Yeah, most of Voyager ones were because Voyager sucks. The DS9 one were Sisko has to pretend to be that famous guy though was meh.

And then there's the majority of Enterprise, or so I've heard. I stopped watching that show after the 4th episode.

Offline Blue Valkyrie

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2014, 09:12:37 PM »
The one were Data goes back in time isn't really that good. Yeah, most of Voyager ones were because Voyager sucks. The DS9 one were Sisko has to pretend to be that famous guy though was meh.

And then there's the majority of Enterprise, or so I've heard. I stopped watching that show after the 4th episode.

True, better examples are...
Yesterday's Enterprise
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Yesterday%27s_Enterprise_%28episode%29
Cause and Effect
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cause_and_Effect_%28episode%29
All good Things
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/All_Good_Things..._%28episode%29

DS9 had Trials and Tribble-ations
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Trials_and_Tribble-ations_%28episode%29

In a Mirror Darkly from Enterprise' fourth season was pretty fun too.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/In_a_Mirror,_Darkly_%28episode%29


Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2014, 09:13:51 PM »
True, better examples are...
Yesterday's Enterprise
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Yesterday%27s_Enterprise_%28episode%29
Cause and Effect
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cause_and_Effect_%28episode%29
All good Things
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/All_Good_Things..._%28episode%29

DS9 had Trials and Tribble-ations
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Trials_and_Tribble-ations_%28episode%29

In a Mirror Darkly from Enterprise' fourth season was pretty fun too.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/In_a_Mirror,_Darkly_%28episode%29

Yeah, all those are great examples. LoL, and you left off City on the Edge of Forever! Shame on you! XD

Offline Blue Valkyrie

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2014, 09:21:50 PM »
Whoops I did forgot to mention TOS, I'm a terrible trek fan.    :'(

Oh The Voyage Home was a fun time travel story too. "Well, Double dumb ass on you!"

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2014, 09:43:34 PM »
Yes it was. I was counting movies though. XD

Offline Soultrigger

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2014, 02:40:28 AM »
The main reason CDI games aren't acknowledged because they weren't made by Nintendo
It's probably a good idea to point out that with many IPs, there are a lot of people involved in the creative process and often times, once these IPs expand, they often get outsourced to other people.

Zelda isn't the best example since, while Oracle of Seasons/Ages, Four Swords, and Minish Cap were all developed by Capcom, Nintendo/Miyamoto indeed still oversaw production.

Mega Man, on the other hand, isn't quite as fortunate. X5, X6, and Zero 1 is the prime example of the continuity being altered due to loss of creative control, and this is with X6 <i>still</i> being made by Capcom. Super Adventure Rockman is also a case where Inafune lost control of the IP, and yet it was still published and released by Capcom. Should we also recognize that in the continuity?

I don't have OCW with me, but in it, IIRC Inafune states the World (GB) series has always been outsourced to other developers. Rockman World 2 was actually outsourced to a different developer from 1, 3, 4, and 5, whom Inafune stated "didn't get it". It makes a whole lot of sense for me that the same people who "didn't get Mega Man" probably didn't care about continuity or the repercussions of adding time travel.


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Offline Blue Valkyrie

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2014, 03:22:23 AM »
Yeah it's not uncommon for work on franchises to be given to other teams or even outsourced. As far as I can tell from a quick wiki search the only part Nintendo played in the CDI trilogy development was sharing artwork for character designs and nothing more.

In the end though considering all the trippy virus related stuff we see later in the X series I don't really feel time travel is that out of place thematically, as for why we don't see it in the x series? If wily invented it in Rockman World 2 then it's possible any knowledge of it died with him. If it was something he stole it's a safe bet such technology was hidden away to avoid further abuse.

Maybe Zan has a better theory on that. *shrugs*

Offline Zan

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2014, 01:13:05 PM »
World 2 included a time machine Wily stole from a time research institute, that didn't work until after Wily made some alterations. It could only travel into the future and back again.

Mega World included two time machines Wily and Light build themselves, these could travel into the past to both change and restore the future.

So... dangerous, unethical technology banned then lost seems like a pretty good guess to me.

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2014, 11:44:54 PM »
*uppercuts Blue and PBPB for dissing Voyager*
Endgame - http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Endgame_(episode)

The context of their discussion is threefold:
-Forte's disobedience.
-Creation of the strongest robot, Zero.
-Creation of an energy stronger than Fortenium.

Within that context, the "other project" is not only the new energy, but it is also the Sigma Virus which corrects Zero's behavior. Nothing else fits the reference.
You flipped the order of the last two points.  Wily references the creation of a new energy, THEN the creation of a new robot, and does not reference his "other project" until after going back-and-forth with Bass over the new robot being superior to him.

The "other project" is simply another step to Wily's plans for world domination.  "With this robot and my other project complete, the world will be mine!"  Wily expects that it, with Zero, will secure his victory.  Any further connection is speculation.  It may or may not tie into Zero being "more than just a simple robot."  Even the project being the virus at all is something that we only infer.  It is something that fits, that does not make it a proven fact.

IIRC, it is generally accepted that as the Classic series continues it is more difficult and less likely that Power Fighters is the last we see of Wily's plans of world domination, chronologically. 

Quote
Remember, Zero does not run Fortenium. His body contains a common solar or atomic generator. Overt displays of raw power do not fit his fighting style, lest he comes into contact with the virus first.
Fortenium is an object, solar/atomic refer to processes.  The two are not mutually exclusive unless one understands "solar" to refer strictly to passively collecting light (unlikely given the specs we do have on X).

Zero's power source is not Fortenium, this is true, but Fortenium is relevant to the discovery of whatever does power Zero.  Bass has been tied to many things, including to some degree emotion and heart, but energy life forms aren't one of them.

My main shpiel is that while the virus certainly serves to draw tremendous power from Zero, I do not believe that Zero requires it to overpower Bass.

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Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2014, 03:10:26 AM »
*uppercuts Blue and PBPB for dissing Voyager*
Endgame - http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Endgame_(episode)

Endgame was terrible. Absolutely terrible.

If you were going to pick a Time Travel episode from Voyager, at least pick the Year of Hell two parter. That was actually a very well done Voyager episode.