Topic: Writer question.

[The Great Gonzo]

No records of anything of what happened to Ciel. Just that she vanished.

I believe it was implied that she DIED OF OLD AGE.

As for "It has to be clearly stated"...Sometimes I like it when they leave things deliberately vague; it lets me fill in the gaps myself and reach my own conclusions. Yeah, it sucks when Capcom fills it in differently or we get insane theories like the Cataclysm, but hey. I'm just not that frustrated with gaps, I guess. (Brother Chucks, on the other hand...)

[Ramzal]

I believe it was implied that she DIED OF OLD AGE.[

Nope. It said she "Mysteriously vanished." Which does not translate to "Dying of old age" and her vanishing happened in the ZX series. Honestly, it makes no sense to me and it all sounds horridly convoluted.

[Gauntlet101010]

People don't play MM for the story.  They play it for the gameplay.

So, yeah ... the story could be much better.  Or at least told much more effectively.  I don't have a problem with the Z series, though.  At least not much of one.  So maybe Capcom learned?  Maybe a little bit.

I'm not one to need every fact and tidbit told, but the connection to Legends could be much stronger.  I mean, yeah it's connected.  Capcom said so, so it is.  But it may as well not be.  Nothing is lost in the Legends series if it wasn't connected, nor is anything gained from it being connected.  It's like saying Marvel VS Capcom is canon (I heard somewhere that it wasn't).  That'd be nice and all, but it wouldn't change anything.  Legends is not like X or Zero which depends on the previous series.

If it were better written, the next MM series would take place after Legends.  Just get over that whole hump and have some forward momentum.  As opposed to the forward-but-not-quite-as-forward-as-Legends that every new game nessasarily has to be since they put it so far ahead in the timeline.

And, yes, a statue to the classic MM would have been nice.  Somewhere in the background.  Or an attack on an old robot museum.  It's a little late for these sort of ideas, but it was what I always wanted to see.

[Zan]

That was barely done. No records of anything of what happened to Ciel. Just that she vanished.

Again, there is no ZX3. It was neither ZX, nor ZXA's point to address this, it is food for the third and possible fourth game.

Nothing about how people took the transaction of power from Neo Arcadia, to the three Wisemen or if there were rebellions against the limitation of Reploids life and humans getting to live longer and stronger.

Vile's Incident clearly established how humanity and Repliroid began living together at Area Zero and moving away from the dome city to its periphery, a new age has begun as a result of the Ragnarok incident which leads to happy acceptance in order to promote equality between humans and Repliroids; they want to learn from the lessons of the past and avoid a repeat of Vile's Incident.

Furthermore, it is also made clear quite often that the exact details of the laws are unknown because of the extend they factor into both Albert and Thomas' plans. Again, ZX3 is needed. It falls beyond the scope of ZX and ZXA.

Why is there not a single character in the ZX series that might have still been behind Weil's ideals without said person trying to blow up the world?

If you have a highly controversial opinion, would you speak it if it resulted in an immense public and legal backlash? Not to mention, such people are highly sensitive to Model V to begin with.

I am assuming that you are referring to A-trans and the possible relation to copy chips? While I personally do wish that Model A is Axl and that Albert has been using the same technology from copy chips from Lumine's time and warning of what they can't stop, that is all speculation until made clear by games. Pay attention to these words: It is speculation. Not complete and total fact until the game makers have a statement---in story, that says as much.

It isn't speculation to say there's a connection, it's speculation to say that we know that the exact reason for the connection is. But we have a childish livemetal with the ability to transform into the bosses he defeat and main characters with backstory and personality aspects that are highly similar to Axl's. We have the ability of Trans On similar to Axl's A-Trans. The antagonist, Albert, using that ability to play God and attaining the power of new life, just as Redips did. If you say that connection is wholly speculative, then that's amusing one hell of a coincidence.

That's completely different from saying "Zero killed everyone" as it is not establishing anything more than the game's already show us.

Cameos mean nothing in the face of reference and marketing.

Cameos are references when they tell us explicitly in the plot what they are. "Toys of cars used in races in the olden days." and "comic book characters based on legendary heroes from the olden days." The game tells us these characters are historical figures and it tells us even such a thing as the Battle and Chase happened in the distant past.

Speculated. No matter how close you may or may not be, it's only true when it's stated. While I'd believe you, there is no -direct- evidence that it true.

Speculation? You have to be kidding me. This is what Inti says about the sequel to RockmanZERO4, that is, RockmanZX:

AIZU: This is something that Yabe (responsible for the original scenario of the Zero series) had been wanting to do. We wanted to take the humans that had been thus far living in relative peace and safety within the walls of Neo Arcadia and introduce them to Weil's dictatorship to sort of force them out into the wilds with the Reploids, thereby lowering themselves to refugee status and in a way bringing them down to what they considered the Reploids' level. It was out hope that ending the game in such a sad state of affairs would leave the stage open for the next game to take place in a world where humans and Reploids lived in harmony.

"The next game?"

AIZU: Well, this is just our own personal opinion, but the way we see it, the end of the Mega Man series has already been written in the form of [the] "Mega Man Legends" [series]. We feel that no matter how you continue the Mega Man series, you'll always end up at Legends. Therefore, we feel that everything that we have created has, in a way, laid the ground work for that world to come into existance. We have to make sure that things like the environment and human-Reploid relations that we establish will be able to make a comfortable transition to that future world.

Granted that Dr. Light holograms are around and pictures of Dr. Wily, but that's it. There's nothing about -anything- of what Rock did that helped make the future what it is. There are no historical facts stated in game about Rock---a ten year old looking robot that could take on armies ALONE? Come now.

Dr. Right explicitly mentioned in his warning the Dr. Wily incidents as the single most fear inducing chain of events of the 21nd century. RockmanX2 mentions wars of the past fought with invincible robots. Dr. Right again outright mentions humanity's reluctance to accept X because they are not yet mature and would view X's limitless potential as something to be feared. All of this says a lot about the state of the world when Right created X.

As for direct character references, Sagesse has intellect comparable to the legendary mad scientist. And hey, even in ZX we have historical facts of Rockman as a legendary hero.

What's wrong with that? Everything that's made dies at sometime. It's a fact. Why not do that? Why would they NOT bother to have something in game that shows "Rock was here." "Bass blew this building up." or Protoman T'shirts that have an arrow pointed at the wearer saying "I'm standing with awesomeness."

Because Rockman is a children's story and there is a limit on how violent it can get. We're not going to be killing any of the main cast permanently on screen, it does not fit the theme. Last time we killed Roll on screen was completely crossing the line for Inafune, even if she never died in the timeline.

The very thought of something -given- free will and branded as such after it decides to become a criminal is pretty silly. If they cannot choose to become criminals or normal citizens, then they don't have free will or a choice in the matter. It's a contradiction.

What are you talking about? There is no contradiction. Any Repliroid is as free as a human. But it isn't a matter of what is possible, it is a matter of what people in the setting want to believe. From an idealistic point of view they choose not to want to know that Repliroids could willingly rebel because it jeopardizes the very foundation of the human - repliroid utopia. From a practical point of view it allows the humans to control the repliroids using the stigma of irregularity. They do not want Repliroids to contemplate matters of rebellion therefore they implicate any rebelling repliroid is a faulty one.

This centennial build up of human superiority in relation to the human - repliroid utopia is exactly the reason why the Vile's Incident happened the way it did. Montagne wrote a nice report on the matter, you ought to read it.

Which is fine, yet it is not explored far enough to warrent being called "good storytelling." The furthest progress goal we've seen is Sigma testing X's willingness to make decisions in critical times and make sacrifice. And Zero's virus. He literally spent all his men and resources just exploring -two- robots. How is that not a waste?

He's forcing Repliroid kind in a war to grow stronger in an endless war. He's trying to break free from humanity to allow Repliroid's to progress with unlimited attention. He's focused on X and Zero because they are the strongest and because X has limitless potential. I don't see any waste, Sigma has always done everything for evolution. The fruits of his labor can be seen in the rapid growth of Repliroid abilities.

I believe it was implied that she DIED OF OLD AGE.

When she already was centuries old, looked no different from before, and has a machine body?

Nope. It said she "Mysteriously vanished." Which does not translate to "Dying of old age" and her vanishing happened in the ZX series. Honestly, it makes no sense to me and it all sounds horridly convoluted.

Deliberate mystery is deliberate. She created the LiveMetals and vanished. The Livemetals' memory of the time after their creation are erased. Pandora and Prometheus mention that woman, Albert claimed her livemetals as part of his own game. Do you really think Inti doesn't have a plan for Ciel? Ciel will appear sooner or later and turn the world upside down in grand revelation style. When that doesn't happen and the series has ended, THEN this is a flaw of the series. You're several years too early as is.

It's like saying Marvel VS Capcom is canon (I heard somewhere that it wasn't).

It's canon. To itself and its sequel.

[The Great Gonzo]

When she already was centuries old, looked no different from before, and has a machine body?

Because I was thinking of Ciel instead of Prairie (damn ZX flashback). Arg.

As for Prairie (seriously this time), I just assumed that she was on the ship that Aile/Vent summoned near the end of ZXA. 

[Zan]

Because I was thinking of Ciel instead of Prairie (damn ZX flashback). Arg.

As for Prairie (seriously this time), I just assumed that she was on the ship that Aile/Vent summoned near the end of ZXA.

We're talking of Ciel.

Ciel: Is a human but looked no different from her ZERO self despite time passage, equality laws are in place, is centuries after ZERO still considered missing instead of dead.

Prairie: Is a Repliroid, changed her name, got a new body.

ZX left Ciel and Prairie's story inconclusive, and neither were shown in ZXA because the focus of the game was not on Guardian.

[Gauntlet101010]

THERE ARE NO PLOT HOLES!!

I've heard that before....

[Fxeni]

Look... Capcom is making it up as they go along. The may occasionally have a base path in mind, but I bet they stray from this path a whole lot for each game to make sure they're fun. Also, you want to know a reason why Capcom usually tried to make self contained stories that had little to do with the others except in passing mention? Look at DASH and ZX. Both these series were more story driven than most, and look where we are now... waiting for the next game to come out to know the continuation. Only thing is, we might never get to know what happens because of crappy sales. Who knows when, or if, either of these series will continue.

Also, there's a reason story usually take a back seat in games. Games can have good stories, yes, but oftentimes it detracts from the whole "gameplay" factor of the game. I won't mention any games in particular, but I'm sure most of you can think of a game that had a kickass story but there just wasn't much "game" to it. It takes a lot of effort to make a game with a perfect balance between story and gameplay. Not to mention, making a continuing story flow over several games is far tougher than it looks, considering how many people work on them. Let's also take into consideration that more often than not it's not always the same people working on said games. The Zero and ZX series got lucky in that regard.

In the end, though, Capcom opts for the most important part first; the gameplay. The story gets fleshed out afterwards, hence why it's a bit off from time to time. Yes, Capcom can do better, and they have certainly gone in the right direction with DASH and ZX. Let's face it though... it's a good thing the gameplay comes first.

[Ketsurui Chinoumi]

And then the topic falls into a pit of heated debates. Oh the joys of over-reacting a bit~. Besides, I'm pretty sure this is not the direction the topic was suppose to take with it's lengthy reviews. Oh well, no harm done in heated debates.

[Zan]

THERE ARE NO PLOT HOLES!!

Rather, people like throwing that term around so much, it ought to be censored too.

There are plotholes, but anything involving the classic - X connection and Wily in X~X6 is just entirely deliberate. They do not want to reveal or even think of certain matters. For the rest, the majority of plotholes is either information available in the books, or translation mistakes. Like Wily being a comrade of X = translation error.

I think in general the biggest flat out plotholes are stuff like Lifesaver, Cain and Douglas dropping off the face of the earth.

Only thing is, we might never get to know what happens because of crappy sales.

We got to hold a couple of translators at gun point and demand translation of 5 islands and Gigamix.

Gigamix has some nice stuff, like did you know Prometheus believes DAN-003 is called Grey because of his hair? >.>

[Gauntlet101010]

Whether it's deliberate or not, it creates plotholes.  After a certain point "being mysterious" is just a nice way of saying "plothole".

Wily in X~6 is a great example of this.  They seemed to be on their way to doing something.  But X7 switched gears.  I doubt we'll ever hear of Wily again.  So he's a huge plothole in the X series.  Yes, the whole mystery behind Wily was entirely deliberate, but the story ended before it was finished. 

[Solar]

Isn't a plothole something that directly contradicts another thing previously stated without any explanation and not simply something unfinished?

[Gauntlet101010]

Isn't a plothole something that directly contradicts another thing previously stated without any explanation and not simply something unfinished?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole

It can also be a gap in the story.

Edit: It's anything that doesn't make sense.  I haven't really delved into that series, but Ciel's being "missing" far beyond her life expectancy is a real lapse in logic.  It's like saying Elvis is considered "missing".  I haven't read where that's from, so it's context might be in a "we have hope" capacity, but ...

I mean you really have to give Capcom a lot of credit in order to think that there isn't plot holes or that some of their explanations don't make sence.  Outright serious errors are few, but there's some nonsensical explanations around. That's why I keep some MM series at arm's length.  If you complain about something too much, you should just not follow it.

IMHO, Capcom's reaching a bit, in terms of story.  At least from some of the series I've been involved with.  Maybe "better writing" would involve them not trying so hard and making things unnessasarily complicated.  I mean, if your game needs a sourcebook to explain what you just played then ....

[Zan]

Wily in X~6 is a great example of this.  They seemed to be on their way to doing something.  But X7 switched gears.  I doubt we'll ever hear of Wily again.  So he's a huge plothole in the X series.  Yes, the whole mystery behind Wily was entirely deliberate, but the story ended before it was finished.

That's just the thing though, the game that deliberately leaves it vague is the game that ends the series; X5. As of that point it's a entirely deliberate eternal mystery and not a plothole.

With X6's release, the X5 team counters their own ending because they wanted to do more with the story. X6 gives exactly the answers we've been wanting to the deliberate mystery. Based on X6's ending, they could have only wanted further elaboration on the Wily storyline. As such, from this point on, it'll become a plothole if its left unanswered before the series ends.

So, it's only a plothole thanks to X7+ sudden new direction. However, as the storyline introduced in X7 has not yet ended, it is not fair to except the grandest revelation of the series to have yet occurred.

Ofcourse, thanks to Inafune, we now know the games and books were inadequate in telling us some key facts about Wily. The next X-game or book definitely has to clear up these matters, otherwise we just have to accept that the whole concluded X-series was inadequate in telling what needed to be told.

But Ciel's being "missing" far beyond her life expectancy is a real lapse in logic. 

At the formation of Legions, equality laws were established. By law, humans who are of a certain degree of age are given robotic bodies, partial or otherwise, giving humans the strenght and durability of Repliroids. The 3 wise men of Legions, who established this law, have lived for several centuries thanks to their machine bodies.

Repliroids are given mortality by use of a life activity timer which is activated the moment the electronic brain is. To make clear the difference between humans and Repliroids, those born as Repliroids are given a triangular red mark on their forehead.

The secret behind these laws is that they allow Albert to select his chosen ones and Thomas to create new life.
Vent and Aile are human Chosen Ones, emphasizing the certain degree of age at which a machine body is given is below 14.

When Ciel disappeared, all Repliroids shown had clear triangular markings and Serpent was a Chosen One; the equality laws are in place. Ciel had passed that certain degree of age a long time ago and was granted a machine body, partial or otherwise.

Ciel did not look too different from before. As leader of the Guards, her youthful visage serves as the bust of the Grand Nuage.

At the time of Ciel's disappearance, the LiveMetals she created were based on legends, a long time had passed since the days of Neo Arcadia. Then a long time passed again.

I don't see the leap of logic; she's immortal. She already lived for more than a century. I don't see why she just can't stay missing for nearly another century. Especially if her loved ones refuse to accept she died.

Followed by her return with world shattering revelations.

Maybe "better writing" would involve them not trying so hard and making things unnessasarily complicated.  I mean, if your game needs a sourcebook to explain what you just played then ....

I think the only time they needed a sourcebook was to explain ZERO3. But that's only because they don't appear to have it quite figured out by that time. ZERO3 is just lacking in precisely the key sentences needed to make it all clear, even though it's simple enough to hint at. And of course, none of the necessary info was included in ZERO4, as that would have ruined that story's flow as much as the Big4 would have.

[Blackhook]

The more I read your posts Zan, the more I want to start a Megaman Zero comic that captures every event (even those only mentioned on Drama Tracks)......

[Gauntlet101010]

That's just the thing though, the game that deliberately leaves it vague is the game that ends the series; X5. As of that point it's a entirely deliberate eternal mystery and not a plothole.

With X6's release, the X5 team counters their own ending because they wanted to do more with the story. X6 gives exactly the answers we've been wanting to the deliberate mystery. Based on X6's ending, they could have only wanted further elaboration on the Wily storyline. As such, from this point on, it'll become a plothole if its left unanswered before the series ends.

So, it's only a plothole thanks to X7+ sudden new direction. However, as the storyline introduced in X7 has not yet ended, it is not fair to except the grandest revelation of the series to have yet occurred.

Ofcourse, thanks to Inafune, we now know the games and books were inadequate in telling us some key facts about Wily. The next X-game or book definitely has to clear up these matters, otherwise we just have to accept that the whole concluded X-series was inadequate in telling what needed to be told.

Yeah, it might have been Infune's intention to leave it an eternal mystery, but it didn't end there.   I'm not arguing what "might be" or Inafune's personal vision.  I'd still consider it "bad writing", though.  Really anticlimactic (as far as Wily goes).

If the game format was inadequate in telling us key facts about Wily, then maybe Inafune shouldn't have gone there.  Maybe he should have stuck to a story the game could have told well instead of a story the game couldn't tell well.  That way, perhaps, there wouldn't have been a plothole.

Since I'm arguing what is and not what might be, I will not allow for the possibility that Capcom might suddenly continue the X series and resolve the matter.  Only active series get that leeway.  And even then, there's absolutely no guarantee they'll ever actually address this.

Ceil

Not too familiar with this, but it still seems illogical.  I chalk it up to "Thundercats mentality".  They toss around the word "centuries" pretty arbitrarily there.  And that seems to be the case here.  "She's been gone for many centuries .... but she's only missing."    ORLY?  I don't want to argue this too much since I'm not very familiar with it, but it smells fishy to me. 

I think the only time they needed a sourcebook was to explain ZERO3.

I dunno, but there are some pretty key plot elements in the series that need a LOT of explaining.  Wasn't the Maverick virus finally definitively explained in a Zero series sourcebook?  That's pretty bad considering the X series hinges on it. 

Maybe it's not quite a "plot hole" as much as it is "poor writing".  If they can't explain it properly, then maybe they should just cut it or work around it. 

[Zan]

Wasn't the Maverick virus finally definitively explained in a Zero series sourcebook? 

It wasn't. They just mentioned some vague pseudo-canon essence of the Virus. There is nothing concretely said. The text isn't really explanatory, it is to make us think about these matters by putting a spotlight on certain aspects. In this regard the spotlight was put on the Virus in relation to X's worrying in order to lead toward the story of Zero's seal. All the real information can be found by looking at the X-series and putting each concept in its adequate perspective.


THE THREE KEYS TO SOLVING THE MYSTERY OF ZERO AND OMEGA.

Zero and Omega are two Reploids with a very complex bond, and they engage in a memorable battle in Zero 3.  Here, we examine the background information regarding the three key elements that tie these two together in an attempt to reveal some previously unknown angles to the story.

(NOTE; The information that follows comes from the early concept phases for the Zero series' scenario, and therefore may not be canonical.")

Sigma Virus
The dreadful Sigma Virus that transforms repliroid to iregular.
The true form of which, was a suffering circuit Right inserted into X during the time of his creation.
A repliroid which possesses a suffering circuit,
in regards to a society where humans and repliroids coexist,
so as to be biased towards neither side,
it is fated always to worry continuously as to which side it should stand upon.
Zero was the first repliroid to be infected with the Sigma Virus but
Zero which was developed by Wily to be a completely evil repliroid,
despite being infected by Sigma Virus isn't transformed into an iregular, [instead]
was reborn as a good repliroid.
But,
as Zero bustled about for the sake of fulfilling his missions as an Iregular Hunter
the Sigma virus lying dormant within his own body was scattered throughout the world
inviting an ironic result.
And so Zero, having become carrier of the Sigma Virus, was admitted to the research facility.

[Gauntlet101010]

It wasn't.

Are you sure?  Didn't it tie in with X's "suffering suckatage?" and all of that was explained to give context to the Z series' background?  That X was the only one who could truly, deeply feel and that related to the Mavericks? 

Edit: Right, that's what I was talking about.  Fully explained int he Z series first.

[Zan]

Edit: Right, that's what I was talking about.  Fully explained int he Z series first.

X's worrying is explained in RockmanX1 itself, game manual.


The act of worrying in “X” marks a new epoch in robotics and is the first time this experiment has succeeded, but if it extends to matters that by their nature must not be questioned, it would be disastrous. In the worst case, if a robot were to harm humans deliberately, humankind would tremble with fear the like of which was unknown even in the days of the “Dr. Wily” incidents…]


The inadequacies of Repliroids compared to X are explained in the same game.


11/22
With Rockman X as a reference, I’ve completed the first robot “Repliroid.”
It doesn’t mean I completely understand how the system Dr. Light built operates.
I tried making a few small revisions to the system.
Thereupon, the Repliroid became fully functional.

7/16
Three Repliroids became “Irregular,” and were shut down because they injured two people.
This is the third case of this kind of defect in Repliroids, and I have no idea what the cause is.
Some say we had better stop the creation of Repliroids.


Remember how the ingame equivalent to worrying talks of free will? Remember the dangers of free will? Remember that mistakes in the electronic brain cause irregulars? Remember how Sigma Virus causes irregulars? Remember how Sigma Virus overwrites free will?

RZOCW just adds extra emphasis on there being a relation, which was obvious to begin with. And IHX takes a hammer and hits you over the head with it.

[Gauntlet101010]

Didn't you use that "psudocanon" as unabashed fact in an earlier debate?

Regardless, I wasn't talking about X's worrying, I was talking about the Maverick / Sigma Virus.  And the relationship between that and X personally is explained in the quote there.  Before that quote everyone (including the "learned few") assumed the virus was Wily's doing.  And they assumed that because it wasn't explained properly.

[Zan]

Didn't you use that "psudocanon" as unabashed fact in an earlier debate?

Regardless, I wasn't talking about X's worrying, I was talking about the Maverick / Sigma Virus.  And the relationship between that and X personally is explained int he quote there.  Before that quote everyone (including the "learned few") assumed the virus was Wily's doing.

The Virus IS Wily's doing. Like I said, RZOCW is vague, it just implicates a connection, nothing exact and concrete. The fact exists in all the other sources, not in RZOCW. RZOCW is merely a compass pointing at the facts.

Rockman Perfect Memories:
Exactly what kinds of secrets are sleeping in Zero's past?
Zero has almost no memory of the past.  However, sometimes he seems to see a person resembling Dr. Wily in his dreams.  And it's also said that Zero was born with the Sigma Virus already inside of him. His creation is it actually to battle with whom?  One would never think it was for justice, however...
X: He was made by Dr. Right.  Will the time for his fated battle with Zero come?
Dr. Wily: The one who put the Sigma Virus in Zero is, perhaps him......

http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=1389.0

[Gauntlet101010]

Perhaps I should have said "everyone assumed it was just Wily's doing and had absolutely nothing to do with X at all"?   

However, just the fact that you have to cite sourcebooks to correct my statements just hammers in my point, doesn't it?  That the main plot point of so many X series games was put ... in a book and not a game.  Emphasis less on "Zero series" and more on "in a book".  They should either have made their idea less complicated or put it in one of the game's introduction.  Or even in a manual at least!  Did they ever explain the virus in a manual?

Not to mention that it's damned confusing that "Sigma" did not put the "Sigma Virus" into Zero.  That just compounds the virus problem and is another example of poor writing.  They should never have introduced the term "Sigma Virus" or should have stopped using it when they decided on Zero being "patient Zero".

[Zan]

Perhaps I should have said "everyone assumed it was just Wily's doing and had absolutely nothing to do with X at all"?   

Except the assumption that it's Wily's doing is the right one. Inafune even blurts it out with the 'brought back by the Virus' line of his. That its origin is X is taking RZOCW out of context and ignoring it's disclaimer on canon. But solely within RZOCW, if Wily did not make it, what's the point of even mentioning it with Zero? Zero was the first infected. If it wasn't origin Wily, than the first infected is Sigma, which is untrue.

They should either have made their idea less complicated or put it in one of the game's introduction.  Or even in a manual at least!  Did they ever explain the virus in a manual?

Their idea is spelled out in the revelations from RockmanX3 to RockmanX4 to RockmanX5.

Sigma is revealed as THE irregular virus.

Zero was an irregular, Sigma was good. Sigma defeats Zero. Sigma goes irregular, Zero becomes good.

The Sigma Virus empowers Zero because it purifies him. Using the Colony Virus, Wily transforms it into the ZERO Virus. The Zero Virus awakens Zero's true self. There is no Virus reading, just Zero's normal data. Sigma Virus works the same way but the amount is unsufficient.

Long before we had any books, people drew the correct conclusions from that.

But, X5 is written as a deliberate mystery, ingredients that imagine, they wanted us to figure this out on our own. The books provide the answer who can't figure it out or for those who want confirmation.

Not to mention that it's damned confusing that "Sigma" did not put the "Sigma Virus" into Zero.  That just compounds the virus problem and is another example of poor writing.  They should never have introduced the term "Sigma Virus" or should have stopped using it when they decided on Zero being "patient Zero".

That's just their odd retroactive use of names. Like Repliroid referring to X and Zero before Repliroids existed. It's their way of talking about it outside of the timeframe of the games.

But when applied to patient Zero, it makes remarkably clear they're talking of Sigma Virus and not Zero Virus. Cause even the newly made Zero Virus is different from the original, after all, it is far more potent. The original virus is much like Sigma's in its potency, it just lacks the Sigma DNA addition.

[Gauntlet101010]

Except the assumption that it's Wily's doing is the right one.

I don't think you entirely follow.  That's fine, it's completely besides the point.

Their idea is spelled out in the revelations from RockmanX3 to RockmanX4 to RockmanX5.

The Sigma Virus empowers Zero because it purifies him. Using the Colony Virus, Wily transforms it into the ZERO Virus. The Zero Virus awakens Zero's true self. There is no Virus reading, just Zero's normal data. Sigma Virus works the same way but the amount is unsufficient.

Long before we had any books, people drew the correct conclusions from that.

Of course none of that mentions how X's suffering circit comes into play and how it's the "true form" of the virus.  And that Zero is actually infected and still spreading said virus.  I know you're a staunch defender of the X series, but X5 makes the virus issue overly and unnessasarily complicated.  And it does this by adding in a whole whack of new viruses that never needed to come into play.  Here's a few terms that never needed to exist:

- Sigma Virus.  It's name confuses everyone and is synonimous with the Maverick Virus.
- The Colony Virus.  Honestly, why did they even bother to add this in?  Wily's helping Sigma; they could easily have attributed the Zero Virus to Wily without needing this virus.  For that matter ...
- The Zero Virus.  It really never needed to be labelled as a "virus" in order for it to work.  It isn't bad on it's own, but the game already deals with the Maverick, Sigma, and Colony viruses!  What's worse is that this virus didn't really need to exist.  They could have done the same thing with the floating Sigma heads. 
- The X virus.  This was just a bad attempt at a "cool" enemy.
- The Nightmare Virus.  Honestly, it didn't need to be called a "virus" and it's just adding fuel to the fire.

Each virus is fine on it's own.  However they become a complex mess taken all together.  What's worse is that they all sorta do the same thing!  So you have several viruses that all take over Reploids, but they all have subtle differences.  Except for the Maverick and Sigma viruses, which are interchangable.  But that interchangability is a detraction because then you have Capcom talking about Zero infecting Sigma with the Sigma virus.

And the Suffering Circit also didn't need to be added into the virus' already complex backstory.  I mean, really.  As if Zero's code corrupting Sigma wasn't enough.  No, now we need to add in how Cain's copy of X's circuit is partially to blame.  So, not only do we need to understand that viruses cause Mavericks, we also need to get behing the suffering circit and understand that this mess came about by their interaction.

That's just their odd retroactive use of names.

In other words, it's confusing for the sake of being confusing.  Just because it's deliberate doesn't mean it's not badly written. 

But when applied to patient Zero, it makes remarkably clear they're talking of Sigma Virus and not Zero Virus. Cause even the newly made Zero Virus is different from the original, after all, it is far more potent. The original virus is much like Sigma's in its potency, it just lacks the Sigma DNA addition.

And you can add "the origional Zero virus" to the list of "viruses that don't need to exist". 

Edit:
Just because you know it quite well doesn't mean it isn't confusing.  It just means you've gone through the material exhaustively.   Your time would be better spent trying to prove that the X series is well written as opposed to arguing with me why I'm wrong.  Because even if I'm wrong and it isn't confusing at all (which it is) and you're right and the confusing nature of the series is intentional (which it also is), that still doesn't mean it's well written.

Edit:
To keep this on the right track: if the X series was written better, they'd keep the list of key terms simple and confined.  And they'd be consistant about it too!  Terms like the "Sigma Virus" would just not be used after "patient Zero" was revealed in order to keep the series accessible.

[Zan]

Of course none of that mentions how X's suffering circit comes into play and how it's the "true form" of the virus.

Mind telling me what such a thing as true form even means? It means literally nothing beyond "non-elaborated relation". Also: "might not be canon" RZOCW clearly says.

Really, no source actually says anything direct about how X's suffering circuit (read: worrying) applies to the Virus. Not even RZOCW. All sources outside of RZOCW and RZOCW itself say Repliroid free will/suffer circuit/worrying causes irregulars under certain conditions, and all sources including RZOCW say the Sigma Virus causes irregulars. So obviously the two are innately connected. That is all that is said.

And that Zero is actually infected and still spreading said virus. 

RockmanX6. Having a piece of Zero's body make a genius Repliroid go bonkers wasn't obvious enough?

- The Colony Virus.  Honestly, why did they even bother to add this in?  Wily's helping Sigma; they could easily have attributed the Zero Virus to Wily without needing this virus.  For that matter ...

Why shouldn't it have existed? The entire point is that it merges with Sigma Virus to create a new entity. With the one or two mentions it got, they explained it adequately.

- The Zero Virus.  It really never needed to be labelled as a "virus" in order for it to work.  It isn't bad on it's own, but the game already deals with the Maverick, Sigma, and Colony viruses!  What's worse is that this virus didn't really need to exist.  They could have done the same thing with the floating Sigma heads.

What's with the bias against the term Virus?

The Sigma Virus merged with another and took on Zero's identity, making it suddenly become much more dangerous and allowing Zero to awaken. Why would something derived from a virus or two suddenly not be a virus?

The entire point of the revelation that is 'origin Zero' relies on the transformation of Sigma to Zero. The entire alternate route to awaken Zero relies on Eurasia's crash. As such, both the Colony Virus and the Zero Virus are entirely necessary elements of RockmanX5.

- The X virus.  This was just a bad attempt at a "cool" enemy.

There is no X virus, what are you talking about?

- The Nightmare Virus.  Honestly, it didn't need to be called a "virus" and it's just adding fuel to the fire.

The thing invades Repliroids and alters their genes. What else than a Virus would you call it? By making it a Virus, Capcom elaborated a great deal on matters of Virus substantiation and their weaknesses to conventional and program weapons. Furthermore, it's entirely of note that such a thing could be made from Zero's DNA.

Each virus is fine on it's own.  However they become a complex mess taken all together.  What's worse is that they all sorta do the same thing!  So you have several viruses that all take over Reploids, but they all have subtle differences.  Except for the Maverick and Sigma viruses, which are interchangable.  But that interchangability is a detraction because then you have Capcom talking about Zero infecting Sigma with the Sigma virus.

The differences and purpose of each is pretty blatant if you ask me:

The Irregular Virus: Any Virus that turns Repliroids into irregulars.
The Sigma Virus: The Virus that came from Zero, eventually merged with Sigma, and turns Repliroids into Irregulars. Could turn Zero into an irregular but is not potent enough.
The Colony Virus: The Virus that was spread on board Eurasia with the purpose of merging with the Sigma Virus to create the Zero Virus.
The Zero Virus: The combination of the Sigma and Colony Viruses. Is like Sigma Virus, but resembles Zero instead of Sigma and is far more potent in turning Zero into an irregular.
The Nightmare Virus: Extremely powerful virus with a physical form, attaches onto Repliroids, invades their bodies and alters their DNA.

ALL of this is outright said in the game. No manual nor sourcebook needed.

And the Suffering Circit also didn't need to be added into the virus' already complex backstory.  I mean, really.  As if Zero's code corrupting Sigma wasn't enough.  No, now we need to add in how Cain's copy of X's circuit is partially to blame.  So, not only do we need to understand that viruses cause Mavericks, we also need to get behing the suffering circit and understand that this mess came about by their interaction.

Suffering Circuit = Worrying = The ability to think, feel and make your own decisions = free will.

No way that the Sigma Virus which creates irregulars relates to free will, that's just such a ludicrously overcomplicated concept!

And you can add "the origional Zero virus" to the list of "viruses that don't need to exist". 

Without the original virus, Sigma being a virus is unexplained and we'd have a PLOTHOLE.

Because even if I'm wrong and it isn't confusing at all

It is NOT confusing, discard everything you know, go play the games in order and pay attention. THIS is the flow of the X-series:


X1: X worries and because he worries, he has true free will. Repliroids are modified versions of X. Repliroids can go irregular because of free will and glitches in their brain...

X2: Sigma is spreading a virus to forcedly create irregulars. Mysterious wireframe bosses attack you. Oh and Zero was the last of the Wi.. Numbers.

X3: ZOMG Sigma is the virus and it's a wireframe! So that's what that was! So that's why Sigma revives! Huh, Zero has to fight with X someday?

X4: Hmm... Zero was an irregular, who's that doctor? Wily? Wait, why'd Zero turn good? Why'd Sigma turn evil? X and Zero fear they might turn into irregulars...

X5: The world is thrown into mass chaos thanks the Sigma Virus. Hmm.. Zero is getting stronger from it. Does he have antibodies or is he a danger? What?! The Virus from Eurasia merged with the Sigma Virus and now resembles Zero?! Huh, his data is the same, the virus is everywhere but there's no virus reading. That is Zero's true self.. They're accusing each other of being irregular, epic battle between X and Zero! Ah, the virus purifies his body.. So the Virus comes from Zero?! Oh! So that explains the flashback from X4! Oh wow, Wily started all this mess by putting a virus inside of Zero!

X6: Hey, the Virus is spreading from that piece of Zero. And a genius scientist can make a Virus by using Zero's DNA. Yeah, that makes sense as the Virus originally came from Zero. Oh, this Virus is very strong, so it has a physical form. I guess that explains why Sigma Virus can sometimes be a wireframe or a floating sigma head, it's becoming physical!

What you're having trouble with is reading too much into a vaguely worded non-canon piece of text that was never even shown within the same series!