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Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => DASH => Topic started by: VixyNyan on March 14, 2009, 07:30:40 PM

Title: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: VixyNyan on March 14, 2009, 07:30:40 PM
But first, a history lesson...

Quote from: Vixy
Looks like Nino Ruins was just a hardware issue after all. The frame rate you got befriended with in the rest of the game is now perfectly implemented in Nino Ruins. No more slowness (besides the underwater thing, but it's still speeded-up a bit).

Quote from: Vixy (July 19, 2007 - "DASH 1 & 2 on the PSP the same?")
Quote from: Sonic Tengu Man
Straight, poorly done ports.

I say they are slightly improved ports.

Secondly, since the hardware of the PSP is "slightly" higher in specs than the PS1, the Nino Ruins underwater segments are NOT slow whatsoever. It means that the dungeon is endurable now (yay).

Also, underwater dungeons in DASH 2/Legends 2 plays better on PSP because of the hardware it was ported on, since the PS1 version makes those dungeons run slowly. >.>

Thanks to the hardware of the PSP, a port from PS1 to PSP makes many elements load and play better than intended. When you run around in the slow underwater dungeons in the second game (especially Nino Ruins), with the added processing power of the PSP, the frame rate and the overall aspects of the underwater ruins runs wonderfully well, while on the PS version, everything moved way too slow. I will try and show a demonstration of this on actual hardware.

Now it can be finally proven, with videos I recorded just a while ago~

But first, let's go back down memory lane, to the first Playstation:
(Download AVI (http://lol.rockmanpm.com/rockmandash2-ninoruins-ps1.avi))

https://youtu.be/BQ5sg9_Rb2M

Now, the moment of truth is here. See it with your own eyes and be shocked. >U<
(Download AVI (http://lol.rockmanpm.com/rockmandash2-ninoruins-psp.avi))

https://youtu.be/qHCuAHGwDn8

Legends fans. Isn't this a beautiful sight? 8D
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Police Girl on March 14, 2009, 07:44:39 PM
Such a beautiful sight, now I want a PSP just for Legends 2.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Acid on March 14, 2009, 07:57:21 PM
God I loved that dungeon. And I played it with MAXIMUM LAG.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Jericho on March 14, 2009, 10:13:33 PM
God I loved that dungeon. And I played it with MAXIMUM LAG.

Same. Honestly though, the only disappointment I had with that dungeon (if you can call it a disappointment) was that in the huge water filled room right before the actual key, there wasn't a [tornado fang] awesome huge aquatic boss to deal with. I mean the area had the perfect atmosphere for it and when I got in the room I was all "holy [parasitic bomb], get out get out get out quick!" There have only been a few times that's happened to me in games. XD

But then again, Klaymore was awesome so all's well that ends well.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Night on March 14, 2009, 10:24:53 PM
Klaymore was awesome... cept for the fact that you can pretty much take him out in seconds with the drill arm..

also:
Quote from: Klaymore
OW! My BACK! owowowowowowoWO!
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Police Girl on March 14, 2009, 11:10:20 PM
Klaymore was awesome... cept for the fact that you can pretty much take him out in seconds with the drill arm..

Thats my favorite thing to do in this entire Dungeon, its so fast... XD
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Nekomata on March 15, 2009, 12:58:00 AM
he's gay.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Ryo on July 01, 2009, 11:10:13 PM
*watches first PS1 video*
THA LAG!! IT BUUUURRRRNNNSSS!!!!

*watches second PSP video*
 :O :D >0< *angels from Heaven starts singing*
My eyes are now healed. :) Now to buy this for the PSP... Except I'm pretty sure that these releases are Japan-only, ya?
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: VixyNyan on July 01, 2009, 11:13:29 PM
You can buy the Rockman DASH 1+2 Value Pack that has both UMD discs for a super-cheap price. ^^

And if you have a way to raise the processing power of your PSP, it will help even more~
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Ryo on July 01, 2009, 11:24:35 PM
So I don't need any special things to run Japanese UMDs like the other home game systems? If no, then I'm buying Irregular Hunter X, Rockman Rockman, AND dat dere value pack. 8)
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: VixyNyan on July 01, 2009, 11:28:18 PM
PSP games are region-free, so go ahead and get some Rockman games. :3
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Ryo on July 01, 2009, 11:33:27 PM
Yes... :V

Also, I have a question about the lag: Why DOES the PS1 version lag so much?? Not enough processing power or something?
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Fxeni on July 02, 2009, 04:45:59 AM
Even the PS1 version being emued doesn't lag as much on the PSP, so my guess is the PS1 lacked the processing power needed to handle everything underwater.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Blackhook on July 14, 2009, 08:26:49 AM
I was just wondering in that level: Megaman , X and the others never had problems walking underwater....why is Trigger the only one who gets slower  o-O

Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Night on July 14, 2009, 09:09:51 PM
It's more realistic?
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Blackhook on July 14, 2009, 09:15:29 PM
What is this realism you speak of?
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Fxeni on July 15, 2009, 06:50:22 AM
I'd venture to say that it's because he's closer to human (or carbon in this case) than Rock and X.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Hypershell on July 16, 2009, 12:53:38 AM
I'd honestly just presumed the water slowdown to be the way it was supposed to be.  *shrugs*  Nino Island ruins are still hell regardless of lag, seeings how you're forced to backtrack the whole damn way.  They couldn't just cutscene/hidden elevator your way between the key and Claymoore...
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Fxeni on July 17, 2009, 07:33:14 AM
I'd honestly just presumed the water slowdown to be the way it was supposed to be.  *shrugs*  Nino Island ruins are still hell regardless of lag, seeings how you're forced to backtrack the whole damn way.  They couldn't just cutscene/hidden elevator your way between the key and Claymoore...
Yeah, it's kinda annoying having to go through the whole thing again... although it isn't at 1/3 speed of what it should be anymore, though.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Acrosurge on August 03, 2009, 02:12:40 AM
I was just wondering in that level: Megaman , X and the others never had problems walking underwater....why is Trigger the only one who gets slower  o-O


I daresay Trigger isn't as strong as Rock and X.  Now, don't jump all over me, but you just don't see him physically doing what Rock, X, and their peers have done.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Hypershell on August 04, 2009, 01:06:33 AM
You never tried aiming my namesake at a Bonne robot, did you?

Trigger tore down the ruler of the world on her home turf.  I'd say he's plenty strong enough.

Also, Trigger is not the only MegaMan to be slowed down by water.  Every Biometal Model other than L and O are.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Fxeni on August 05, 2009, 05:02:31 AM
Also, Trigger is not the only MegaMan to be slowed down by water.  Every Biometal Model other than L and O are.
That's a very true point... which leads back to what I said before, the fact that they're closer to being human/carbon than Rock and X. Makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: xnamkcor on August 30, 2009, 05:44:32 PM
Almost necroposting here, but some fun facts.

Megaman Legends 2(PSX):
Runs at 60 FPS on very few menus.
Runs at 30 FPS during normal play.
Runs slightly slower sometimes for, what seems to be, dramatic effect.
Under water, it runs 20 FPS.

Megaman Legends 2(PSP):
Seems to run at 30 FPS both on land and under water.

Some fun speculation.

The PSX could probably handle 30 FPS, but the FPS was lowered for effect.
The PSP version runs at 30 FPS underwater due to complaints.


If anybody has a gameshark and would be willing to test a code on the real PSX to force 30 FPS, let me know.

PS: Thanks for the warning. I'll set my GPU plugin's manual speed to 30 FPS and manual override when I go underwater.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Fxeni on August 30, 2009, 05:57:26 PM
Almost necroposting here, but some fun facts.

Megaman Legends 2(PSX):
Runs at 60 FPS on very few menus.
Runs at 30 FPS during normal play.
Runs slightly slower sometimes for, what seems to be, dramatic effect.
Under water, it runs 20 FPS.

Megaman Legends 2(PSP):
Seems to run at 30 FPS both on land and under water.

Some fun speculation.

The PSX could probably handle 30 FPS, but the FPS was lowered for effect.
The PSP version runs at 30 FPS underwater due to complaints.


If anybody has a gameshark and would be willing to test a code on the real PSX to force 30 FPS, let me know.

PS: Thanks for the warning. I'll set my GPU plugin's manual speed to 30 FPS and manual override when I go underwater.
I played the PSX version on my PSP, and there was no lag whatsoever on the PSP, so I'm pretty sure the PSX couldn't handle it properly.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: xnamkcor on August 30, 2009, 10:21:40 PM
I played the PSX version on my PSP, and there was no lag whatsoever on the PSP, so I'm pretty sure the PSX couldn't handle it properly.

Like I said, the game seemed to lower the framerate as a hacky way to do slow motion.  It's a wonder nobody made a gameshark code to "fix" the lagginess earlier.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Fxeni on August 31, 2009, 01:33:13 AM
Like I said, I played the version that apparently lagged itself to do slowmotion on my PSP, and it didn't lag.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: xnamkcor on August 31, 2009, 02:39:46 AM
Like I said, I played the version that apparently lagged itself to do slowmotion on my PSP, and it didn't lag.

Could be a problem with the emulation.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Psycho Yuffie on August 31, 2009, 02:44:37 AM
It has been a few years now, but I didn't really notice lag when I played it. Then again, I played the N64 version.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Nekomata on August 31, 2009, 02:57:16 AM
It has been a few years now, but I didn't really notice lag when I played it. Then again, I played the N64 version.
love, we're talking about a dungeon in the second game..
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Psycho Yuffie on August 31, 2009, 02:58:06 AM
love, we're talking about a dungeon in the second game..
Oh, okay. I remember a water level in the first one. Oh, well. I'm stupid, so just ignore me.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: xnamkcor on August 31, 2009, 09:51:05 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/xnamkcor/MML2desert30fps.png)

If I have the time, I'll actually go back to the water stuff, but I think this is the same effect.

If you are using an emulator, try the 4th Framebuffer Animation option. If that doesn't work, choose 1 or 2 to disable it.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Acid on August 31, 2009, 09:54:19 PM
I can't remember that desert. That means... gotta replay MML again.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Police Girl on August 31, 2009, 10:03:00 PM
Thats Legends 2. It was Saul Kada Desert or something like that.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: xnamkcor on September 01, 2009, 12:13:08 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/xnamkcor/mml2waterfyeahhydrojets.png)

Runs about 26-28 normally, loading doors causes 25.

PS: Anybody else notice how overpowered your jump length is with Hydro Jets underwater?
PPS: Speaking of overpowered...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/xnamkcor/equipmentmml20931.png)
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Acid on September 01, 2009, 12:21:11 AM
Thats Legends 2. It was Saul Kada Desert or something like that.


Ah yes... vague memories. Still, gotta replay it.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Hypershell on September 02, 2009, 12:42:52 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/xnamkcor/equipmentmml20931.png)
THAT'S what you call overpowered?  Try aiming my namesake at the Gustaff.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: M[u]ddy on September 27, 2009, 12:54:13 AM
If you are using an emulator, try the 4th Framebuffer Animation option. If that doesn't work, choose 1 or 2 to disable it.

In ePSXe 1.7 you can quick switch to the software plugin via pressing F7. This will work 100% and runs faster on slow pcs.
You will only have the native PSX Resolution but since there is a frame-buffer effect over the whole screen and frame-buffer effects are software calculated you already had low graphics with your hardware plugin anyway.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Keno on September 30, 2009, 04:39:15 AM
THAT'S what you call overpowered?  Try aiming my namesake at the Gustaff.
I don't even know where to get the Hypershell. I just take what I come across. One time I got Shining Laser, though.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Hypershell on October 02, 2009, 10:30:59 PM
I don't even know where to get the Hyper Shell. I just take what I come across. One time I got Shining Laser, though.
(fixed; I'm one word, the weapon's two words)
Give Roll the Rusty Bazooka (Calbania Island ruins) and the Firecracker (Guildmaster's Assistant after defeating Glyde).
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Keno on October 18, 2009, 10:33:37 PM
I'm playing Legends 2 on my PSP currently, but it fades to black forever when I get back onto The Flutter on Pokte Island. :(
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: xnamkcor on October 19, 2009, 04:44:15 PM
I'm playing Legends 2 on my PSP currently, but it fades to black forever when I get back onto The Flutter on Pokte Island. :(

PSP or PSX version?
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Fxeni on October 19, 2009, 05:01:30 PM
Assuming it's the PSX version, you have to use popsloader to change to version 3.40 I believe.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Keno on October 20, 2009, 09:38:24 AM
PSP or PSX version?
Do I seem like a fan of having everybody speak gibberish?

Assuming it's the PSX version, you have to use popsloader to change to version 3.40 I believe.
What do I hold to change the popsloader version? R or something?
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: xnamkcor on October 20, 2009, 06:21:34 PM
Do I seem like a fan of having everybody speak gibberish?
If you want us to help you? Yes.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/xnamkcor/197896_42487_front.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/xnamkcor/928758_68043_front.jpg)

What do I hold to change the popsloader version? R or something?
There's a good chance it's in the manual/readme.
Useless readme is useless.
I'll look into it.

"The first time you run a PS1 game that has no popsloader settings, the plugin will display a menu to select the version of pops you wish to use. To change the specific pops version for a game that already has popsloader settings, hold the R Trigger while selecting the game from the XMB Menu."

XMB = Cross Media Bar,
It's the thing that shows up when you boot the PSP, unless you have some sort of autoboot thing going on with IRSHELL.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: VixyNyan on October 20, 2009, 06:32:58 PM
These were the versions that had the Nino Ruins slowed down. (doesn't matter which Playstation you played them on)
(http://lol.rockmanpm.com/rockmandash2ps.jpg) (http://lol.rockmanpm.com/megamanlegends2.jpg)

And this was the version that got reprogrammed and worked best for the PSP hardware, and made the game run (a little bit) better.
(http://lol.rockmanpm.com/rockmandash2psp.jpg)

It won't matter much really, but it's fun to test and make experiments, for science~! >BD
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Acid on October 20, 2009, 06:34:00 PM
Man I love the DASH/Legends artstyle.
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: xnamkcor on October 20, 2009, 06:36:38 PM
These were the versions that had the Nino Ruins slowed down. (doesn't matter which Playstation you played them on)

Thank You, emulators!
Title: Re: Nino Ruins: The slow lag nightmare is finally over~
Post by: Keno on October 20, 2009, 06:38:06 PM
Cool awesome. Thanks guys. Hopefully it'll work.