Was Dr. Light the real evil in the series?

CyberXIII · 12667

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Offline CyberXIII

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on: January 17, 2011, 03:47:08 PM
Before you all shout "BULLSHIT" and probably prove me wrong (I kinda hope you do) please read this (more or less taken from Tvtropes:

The original series has Mega Man  vs. Dr Wily, with the latter never being executed for his actions. Eventually, Doctors Light and Wily make their final works, X and Zero, with the program that would become the Maverick virus created sometime in the interim and implanted into Zero's body.

The Mega Man X series has the program absorbed from Zero into Sigma, who becomes the new Big Bad and spreads the new Maverick virus. The virus is destroyed with Cyber Elves, but the source of said Elves is taken over by Dr. Weil, causing the Elf Wars that ravage the earth and kill off billions of humans and reploids. Again the human villain is not exectued, leading us to the Mega Man Zero series.

After that, humanity and reploids merge into a single species seen in the Mega Man ZX  series.

In the Mega Man Legends series, it's revealed that humanity has been entirely replaced by Carbons, robots that perfectly mimic humans. The last human died before the series started. So, because humanity couldn't put down the human villains, not only did humanity eventually die, but the original villains were partially vindicated: Dr. Wily ended the robot war and changed the world through Zero, who would never have been built if Wily was killed after the sixth game, and Sigma more or less got his wish of a human free world, since they all died and were replaced by robots.

I realize this assumes that Legends is the distant sequel to everything, but still.....

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Offline Rin

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Reply #1 on: January 17, 2011, 04:18:50 PM
OH look guize, it's THIS thread again.

Also, in that small wall of text of yours, I fail to see anything that even remotely makes Light the one who was evil. Even by accident.

Though, to quote Granny Weatherwax:
"Good is not nice."



Offline CyberXIII

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Reply #2 on: January 17, 2011, 05:25:52 PM
Well, Gig, if you don't get it:

Zero killed the human villain, saying that race didn't matter; if it's evil, it dies. Unless there are details only explained in the sourcebooks, the Zero series basically suggests that Dr. Light, and by extension the first two heroes that laid the foundations of the franchise, were wrong. Completely, dangerously, wrong.

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Offline Blackhook

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Reply #3 on: January 17, 2011, 06:04:08 PM
You are saying that Dr. Light was evil because he didn't want to kill Wily?
YOu can't compare Wily's schemes to that of Weil. Weil was a monster! Weil was about to you know DESTROY THE FLIPPING EARTH (or atleast parts of it...)!  The only way to stop the destruction was to destroy Ragnarok. To destroy Ragnarok Weil had to be destroyed, simple as that.
Weil so far tries to take over the world using his machines to prove himself superior about every one else..especially Light and Rock. He usually just caused property damage but didn't hurt anyone..if you don't count the creation of the Virus that turned Earth into a living hell...but hey, not even Wily expected THAT to happen.


Offline Cobalt

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Reply #4 on: January 17, 2011, 06:25:13 PM
Ever since the armor parts on Squid Adler's and Bamboo Pandamonium's stages, I consider Dr Light to be the evilest villain of the series.

But seriously, I doubt he made all those important inovations on science and stuff just for the sake of screwing over people 300 years after he died. It's just that some people decided to use his technology for their own intentions.



Offline Flame

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Reply #5 on: January 17, 2011, 06:52:11 PM
Geez. THIS thread again, and you completely fail at making the "Light is evil" point, and instead come in with a Mega Man history lesson you could have copied from any of Zan's timelines.

That takes some real work to fail at that. props.

I mean come on. not even a single MENTION of any of any of the points mentioned on the original image.
http://oi31.tinypic.com/307no0w.jpg

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Align

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Reply #6 on: January 17, 2011, 08:28:31 PM
If we were religious people, this would be like arguing that God is evil because he created humans, who can do evil.



Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #7 on: January 17, 2011, 08:53:41 PM
At least it's not "Dr. Light is evil because the placement of those armour capsules forces the player to work for them!"

What the first post was trying to say, I think, is that many of the problems that sprang up post-Classic wouldn't have been an issue had Dr. Light had Dr. Wily executed. But, I don't think that Dr. Light would be able to live with that decision, which honestly doesn't really scream "evil" to me (since he's not the kind of person who would want Wily alive for his own gain).



Offline Flame

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Reply #8 on: January 17, 2011, 09:02:56 PM
We dont quite know just how the criminal system works in Megaman's world, although its pretty safe to assume that Wily probably has an insanity plea.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Align

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Reply #9 on: January 17, 2011, 09:03:45 PM
I don't think the good doctor had authority over life-and-death legal decisions, no matter how famous and popular he was.



Offline Burst

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Reply #10 on: January 17, 2011, 09:46:47 PM
Dr. Light isn't evil simply because he isn't the instigator, Wily is.

Wily is the one that starts new things, that is the archetype for a villian, such as Satan or Loki. Dr. Light did what he did at first within acceptable parameters. Wily endangered the lives of civilians and Dr. Light responded in a way that had to equal Wily's. Fight fire with fire as they say.

As Jung or Freud put it ( I can't remember which of the two, and I'm only paraphrasing) you cannot deal with evil without risking evil becoming a part of you. Yes, Dr. Light did knowingly pressed on when he knew the outcomes would most likely be violent, but it was always when reacting to something Wily did first.

To close I will quote Dr. Light from Maverick Hunter X.

"My name is Thomas Light, I am the researcher who designed and built Mega Man X. I granted X special powers that no other robot posesses, utilizing he conscious, he is able to think, worry, and act entirely of his own accord. This means that he is also imbued with the materials necessary to facilitate the evolution of robots in the same matter as light/life (not sure which.) It is an unfortunate fact that human life is short and fleeting. I fear that I will not have the time to ensure the safety of the X Project, that is why I have decided to seal him away. Perhaps he will be discovered in the far flung future, and will fight valiently to ensure peace for all people. Yes, I firmly believe that this will come to pass, but I am not without worry, I fear that X will be swept up in the war we call progress. I urge the people of the future, to remember that X is my, nay, the world's hope."

The wars were inevitable. Dr. Light was just participating the best way he knew how.

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Offline Zan

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Reply #11 on: January 17, 2011, 10:01:07 PM
We dont quite know just how the criminal system works in Megaman's world, although its pretty safe to assume that Wily probably has an insanity plea.

Under Gyakutan Saiban court methods.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #12 on: January 17, 2011, 10:03:02 PM
Heh, someone made a serious version of this topic. LoL, wow how time flies.



Offline Blackhook

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Reply #13 on: January 17, 2011, 10:05:20 PM
..You call this serious?


Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #14 on: January 17, 2011, 10:28:47 PM
Well, more serious than when I jokingly made this topic years ago.



Offline Flame

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Reply #15 on: January 17, 2011, 10:40:53 PM
Well I have to admit, the topic starter was serious about it at least.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Gaia

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Reply #16 on: January 18, 2011, 04:12:45 AM
This is kinda like saying "Bowser is not really evil, the deceiving bastard Mario is!". It started as a joke, really, but I guess some things are hard to tell on the internet (or some things get taken way too seriously), huh? 

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Reply #17 on: January 20, 2011, 03:18:03 AM
This is kinda like saying "Bowser is not really evil, the deceiving bastard Mario is!". It started as a joke, really, but I guess some things are hard to tell on the internet (or some things get taken way too seriously), huh? 
Peach is evil.  Mario just gets conned into doing her dirty work.

Anyways, on the topic of killing the villain, a lot of that likely has to do with the differing atmospheres of the series.  Nobody is really supposed to die in Classic (Inafune apologizes for SAR), and there is no human villain in X (Elf Wars is not part of the X-series).  Further, failure to kill Weil was more due to the already tremendous loss of life (literally more than half the world) in the Elf Wars than it was Weil being human; Omega is a Reploid and he wasn't killed either.

I doubt even Zero would have killed Weil if the situation hadn't demanded it.  His concern is to stop Weil's threat; that doesn't mean he wouldn't have merely detained him if there was a way to do so.  There simply wasn't.  In the Z4 scenario, X likely would have done the exact same thing, though he may have been a bit more bent out of shape over it.

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Offline CyberXIII

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Reply #18 on: January 21, 2011, 05:41:34 PM
...I suppose a better name for this topic would have been "does anyone else think the Unfortunate Implications entry on tvtropes's Mega Man article is a pile of crap?"

I never once agreed with them, I just quoted the article and asked people if anyone agreed with it. 

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Offline Blackhook

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Reply #19 on: January 21, 2011, 05:48:13 PM
..But the unfortunate implication is about Oil Man being a racist stereotype...


Offline CyberXIII

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Reply #20 on: January 21, 2011, 05:58:28 PM
..But the unfortunate implication is about Oil Man being a racist stereotype...

No, not that one.  I made a mistake, it's on the Zero series article over here:  http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MegaManZero

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Offline Align

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Reply #21 on: January 21, 2011, 06:01:52 PM
What a weird way of looking at it.
The guy built by the evil scientist, and who angsts (more or less) over his intended purpose to destroy but ultimately overcomes it and even saves the world, somehow makes the evil scientist out to be right?? Insane Troll Logic if ever I saw any.



Offline Blackhook

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Reply #22 on: January 21, 2011, 06:08:45 PM
It noted that peace returned only after all of Light's creations were dead...somebody is thinking too much about it.


Offline Rin

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Reply #23 on: January 21, 2011, 07:53:54 PM
It noted that peace returned only after all of Light's creations were dead...somebody is thinking too much about it.
You do realize you're saying this on RPM? THIS PLACE IS JUST FILLED WITH PEOPLE WHO THINK TOO MUCH ABOUT IT!
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