Author Topic: The story of Rockman Online  (Read 27136 times)

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Offline Hypershell

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2010, 03:56:43 AM »
Orbital Elevators originated in Z1, they just weren't highlighted in the same manner that they were in X8 and XCM.

Zan has alleged that Wily built the first orbital elevator (MM10), although given the gravity shenanigans of that stage, that may not be an elevator at all but just one hell of a free-fall into the sky.

XCM is highly debatable as Copy Chip production restarting; the technology in that game is considered exceptionally hard to find.  This is evident in Axl's surprise at Redips having the ability, and Marino being unable to find one to potentially steal outside of Axl's.

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Offline marshmallow man

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2010, 04:01:35 PM »
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If you have an official description, then quote it.  Don't simply offer a paraphrase of gameplay effects, that doesn't prove your point.

I forgot how most of my time spent with you guys is simply catching you up to speed to effect a reasonable conversation. Thanks for reminding me why I don't drop by more often.

One example of many:

Plasma Shot:
This special charge shot emits a giant plasma blast that generates a ball of electricity on impact that shocks enemies for additional damage.


And I believe you already have access to other people's translated resources explaining how a normal buster and charge shot works available to you to have come to an understanding of how Rock and X's normal busters are always described as solar bullets made from wavelengths of energy from the sun that are condensed, and not being themselves mini-suns or anything of the sort.

It seems like you already figured out why plasma would be attached to elec elements. An equally quick trip to solar energy on Wikipedia teaches that solar energy deals with utilizing light and heat wavelengths from the sun. Therefore we should not be surprised to find that solar energy be classified so often as heat element or even as neutral light element in these games. But the actual science involved is only a half-truth, because how many of these technologies like rock busters actually exist and can be demonstrated in a real lab? It's fiction we're dealing with, and the Japanese masters of these fictional worlds consistently define the device they've invented as working based on solar energy in ways such as the above, and alike with plasma to describe a different set of characteristics as also described. The associated elements are the ones they have chosen. I have many sourcebooks that hold to this convention and quite literally none that oppose this. The Rockbuster is always described as solar energy, and the term plasma only occurs where there is electrical elements at work, making the only overlaps the unique charge shots from special armors such as the one above. Solar energy and plasma energy are distinct because Capcom decided it should be. The sci-fi makes sense, the patten they've chosen is evident even to yourselves and yet you question it anyway, if and I don't know how else to explain it. Quite frankly, it's been gone over enough.

Where this applies to RO, there is the following:
태양 에너지 - This would be "Solar Energy" and a 1:1 translation from the Japanese of what the buster should be running on.
플라스마 - This is "Plasma". If you read the site and thought to reverse-engineer what you had read to apply to the Japanese version, you would arrive at a faulty conclusion contradicting what they had actually set forth.

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By what logic can the X-buster not fire plasma when even Zero's bustershot can fire attacks of all elements by the mere insertion of a chip?

The X-Buster can emit things ranging from energy weapons to chemicals to solid constructions with mechanical working parts. But these are all with the use of special weapons or upgrades. And generally in those instances, the only time these changes are shown are within charged shots.

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When we consider that Axl's display of VWS is in fact based on different weapons instead of a single weapon somehow changing its output, how is VWS by plot instead of gameplay, no longer unique?

In X7 this involved many using the same weapon, and all of which using the same basic form as X. But more importantly, the X Compendium and X7 books explain that AXL has the same special weapon ability X does. And by the second trailer, he's present in RO even if not a playable character. And then there's Duo. And Rockman, whom maybe they don't have information about... but I think we will find that they do. VWS is all over the place. I would be more impressed by their attention to fine "details" if they didn't overlook them so regularly.

Another example I was considering while on the subject. The very idea of Duo punching people out is itself but a nod to Ariga (which they got long before we did). Fun and silly, but how practical is it? Would Duo as a warrior for justice seriously start punching friends and strangers for white lies? There is so clearly a pop culture element involved in these biographies.

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Why couldn't it just come with the setting of this far future world? Like Rockman X coined "Repliroid" and "Mechaniroid", like Rockman Zero coined "Mythos Repliroids" and "Bioroids".
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I somehow missed that over the course of this discussion, but that makes sense to me.  In-universe terminology can and has changed over the ages.  Certainly this is no more offensive than the general ambiguity of "Sigma Virus" when used in retrospective text.

Sigma Virus is confusing, but it is also explained already and thoroughly in sourcebooks that the reason behind the name came from Doppler, and was named for Sigma. If RO explains in their next blog post how here in the future everyone in this "Rockman" universe calls "repliroids" just "reploids" now and that they in more recent times coined the term humaroid to apply specifically to ________ (since we don't actually have a clear cut definition of what a humaroid refers to at this time) I will be sure to drop by and give you guys a thumbs up.

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If the rewriting of time is limited to just the examples you gave (plasma/solar and VWS), I'd say that's pretty minor. Do you have any better examples of contradicting the known timeline?

You already pointed them out-ages of peace after the X series including Command Mission and with no public record of Neo Arcadia outside the cryptic visions of Cinnamon copies. More specifically for Command Mission, there are 1XX years from Zero's initial building and sealing to the start of the Zero series. These include a first sealing of unknown time, a second one following the Nightmare Incident occurring roughly some 50 years at least, and a third lasting a 100 years from the Elf Wars. With over 150 years accounted for with sealings coupled with Zero being a robot from an earlier era that is the same as X's at the very beginning of the series, most of all of this time is spent sleeping and perhaps only a decade or two at most of actual X series can occur in the time that is left. For Command Mission to fit in before Zero's second seal he must have been sealed initially after 2150. Placing it during or after the Elf Wars is similarly disjointing with little intermingled plot elements to fit its era. And we've already talked about all this last time. Oh well.

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Let's just say among other word choice, that "regurgitations" wasn't the best one. I would have figured you'd be more amused with us actually reconsidering your own premise.

I just feel like it's the same old thing that goes nowhere without the proper context. It's great that when I'm not around for a while your egos will allow you to see that maybe I had some idea of merit, as long as you don't bring up the fact that I brought you the research in the first place. But I'm just getting cranky. I've got to get settled back in to work. Guess I'll see you guys around.




Offline Zan

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2010, 04:51:21 PM »
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Zan has alleged that Wily built the first orbital elevator (MM10), although given the gravity shenanigans of that stage, that may not be an elevator at all but just one hell of a free-fall into the sky.

Possible, but elevator or not, it is still orbital. Which would be the biggest challenge in making such a construct. Adding an elevator inside would be a small feat by comparison.

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I forgot how most of my time spent with you guys is simply catching you up to speed to effect a reasonable conversation. Thanks for reminding me why I don't drop by more often.

That's to be expected in any fanbase with a large amount of obscure information hidden behind a language barrier. I think you will find we are more up to speed than most, unless you just want people taking your words for granted.

In this case, the fact that solar was localized as plasma was well known. But plasma as something unique in its own right was not something ever discussed before.

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Where this applies to RO, there is the following:
태양 에너지 - This would be "Solar Energy" and a 1:1 translation from the Japanese of what the buster should be running on.
플 라스마 - This is "Plasma". If you read the site and thought to reverse-engineer what you had read to apply to the Japanese version, you would arrive at a faulty conclusion contradicting what they had actually set forth.

Why could we not simply consider this case of "Plasma" to be the Korean localization of "Solar"? Just like any other localization issue, we in our minds simply revert it to mean Solar. In our years of dealing with localization, to determine what is and isn't nonsense, should be something we're used to by now.

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In X7 this involved many using the same weapon, and all of which using the same basic form as X. But more importantly, the X Compendium and X7 books explain that AXL has the same special weapon ability X does.

I knew as much, but still we must acknowledge a slight difference between X's ability and Axl's.

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Another example I was considering while on the subject. The very idea of Duo punching people out is itself but a nod to Ariga (which they got long before we did). Fun and silly, but how practical is it? Would Duo as a warrior for justice seriously start punching friends and strangers for white lies? There is so clearly a pop culture element involved in these biographies.

Manga acknowledgment in even Capcom's own materials is nothing uncommon. Eagleed in Day of Sigma comes to mind.


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I would be more impressed by their attention to fine "details" if they didn't overlook them so regularly.

So "Plasma" and "VWS", that makes two cases. For us to consider overlooking such details a regular thing, what else is there?

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If RO explains in their next blog post how here in the future everyone in this "Rockman" universe calls "repliroids" just "reploids"

Reploid and Repliroid are known to hold the same meaning; one is the localization of the other. Humaroid is either a new term introduced in this setting, to refer to the humanoid robots of the past, or a localization of humanoid robots. Can't we just glance over such localization differences?

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You already pointed them out-ages of peace after the X series including Command Mission and with no public record of Neo Arcadia outside the cryptic visions of Cinnamon copies. More specifically for Command Mission, there are 1XX years from Zero's initial building and sealing to the start of the Zero series. These include a first sealing of unknown time, a second one following the Nightmare Incident occurring roughly some 50 years at least, and a third lasting a 100 years from the Elf Wars. With over 150 years accounted for with sealings coupled with Zero being a robot from an earlier era that is the same as X's at the very beginning of the series, most of all of this time is spent sleeping and perhaps only a decade or two at most of actual X series can occur in the time that is left. For Command Mission to fit in before Zero's second seal he must have been sealed initially after 2150. Placing it during or after the Elf Wars is similarly disjointing with little intermingled plot elements to fit its era. And we've already talked about all this last time. Oh well.

As we discussed last time, Command Mission might be tricky to place in relation to the ZC timeline, but by no means is it impossible. Furthermore, we were also doubting the actual timeframe and label of Zero's first seal. None of this can be faulted to Rockman Online.

With RO acknowledging Command Mission but not Rockman Zero, does RO in and of itself not fix all the above problems by being in an alternate timeline to Rockman Zero? At the very least known history up to RockmanX6 is in tact.

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I just feel like it's the same old thing that goes nowhere without the proper context. It's great that when I'm not around for a while your egos will allow you to see that maybe I had some idea of merit, as long as you don't bring up the fact that I brought you the research in the first place.

The concept of a branching timeline isn't anything particularly new. It's been thrown around since the very beginning of Rockman Zero existing alongside the X-series. All you did was successfully argue it without having the strong bias against the continuing X-series that many others seem to suffer from. Back then we did indeed consider it as having merit, we just didn't see a branch as absolute necessity, nor confirmed.

Until necessity and/or confirmation are given to us, why choose branching over linearity? This is not yet like Twilight Princess and Wind Waker where the producers have outright confirmed the matter. Perhaps we should simply be more vocal toward the developers with these kind of questions?

Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2010, 06:56:14 PM »
Though--I dunno, is it safe to say that Novas Adventuras de Megaman was totally isolated from CoJ?
You guys have got to stop mentioning this not-at-all charming piece of comic book trash. It's like saying Beetlejuice three times over. But instead of Michael Keaton, you get me.

NAdMM was going to be its own AU to begin with, so continuity? Heh heh, yeah, as if, that thing rewrote its backstory two times over. I'd say three if they could land 4 more issues.

But, to the point, they always said the scripts were sent and approved by Capcom of Japan.

Especially in the letters section, when a reader's letter was "What the [tornado fang] is this [parasitic bomb]?!".

Ah, and speaking of AUs and whatnot, I'm not really following the little words Neowiz is releasing periodically about MMO, but a friend of mine is keeping a look on it and she won't shut up about it. I heard they talked "centuries" after the end of the X series though don't remember the source.

This hands-on from the G-Star build says the timeframe is 22XX. I'm guessing it's a hiccup more than likely. Or not. You'd know before I do, 'cuz I'm not really caring about their justification for the free-for-all character fest we're getting.

Now I'll let the thread follow its usual course.
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The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
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a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

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Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2010, 07:31:01 PM »
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But, to the point, they always said the scripts were sent and approved by Capcom of Japan.

I must've forgotten that bit. Though knowing about what happens in #4 and Roll's frequent nudity and X being Pervy McPervington, I have to wonder just how closely CoJ looked at those scripts. :/ But anyway.


22XX? Timeline headaches, away! D: And I'm pretty sure that CM took place in 22XX, unless they mean the tail end of 22XX and CM was in the spring or something...

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'cuz I'm not really caring about their justification for the free-for-all character fest we're getting.

Not liking the Clone Saga angle they took either, huh?

Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2010, 07:42:09 PM »
Not liking the Clone Saga angle they took either, huh?
I liked the Clone Saga (not that the thing is without flaws. Don't play strawman now, kids) and I disapprove of your attempt to try to TvTrope-ize the name of that beautifully overstretched (note: sarcasm) story arc for something that makes you sad and cold inside.

But no, this has no bearing either to why I'm not interested in their plot.

I didn't really care what they would have passing for one from the very first animated trailer. When I saw Original series characters thrown in the fray and Iris around and all that I was more concerned with just enjoying something that seemed that was already going to be an AU from day one than bend my mind and heart (and possibly other bodily pieces) to piece it into "canon" or anything.

I'm really glad to see Command Mission characters thrown in again and I really couldn't care less whether it's mass produced clones, or some alternate timeline where they never died, or if they were revived by the MYSTERIOUS POWER OF VOODOO.
Quote
The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
Quote
a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

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Whenever it comes to "consensus" and things alike, always remember Tony Bullet-Tooth's sage advice:
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."

Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2010, 08:05:43 PM »
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and I disapprove of your attempt to try to TvTrope-ize the name of that beautifully overstretched (note: sarcasm) story arc for something that makes you sad and cold inside.

Ack. D: Sorry.

Using CM characters was a good thing in my book, too, but the fact that they're not the same characters that I actually give a crap about is...depressing, to say the least. (Plus the trailers give no indication that everyone's dead and it's all clones)

Offline Hypershell

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2010, 09:03:25 PM »
]And I believe you already have access to other people's translated resources explaining how a normal buster and charge shot works available to you to have come to an understanding of how Rock and X's normal busters are always described as solar bullets made from wavelengths of energy from the sun that are condensed, and not being themselves mini-suns or anything of the sort.
Are you sure about that?

Light's talking about Rock, not X.  If we are to assume that the same principles apply to both (a safe bet, I'll admit; I know there's more sources than just that on Solar Energy), then your interpretation of the second link raises a contradiction with the games.

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Q. Do robots like those made by Dr. Wily or Dr. Cossack have self-awareness, and can they talk? And do they run on solar energy like Rockman does?

A. ...
Regarding their energy systems, many of them do utilize “solar energy” in some way.
Rock doesn't just "attack" with solar energy, he "runs on" solar energy.  If this is taken to refer to solar radiation, why does X carry a fuel tank for "micro-fusion" (noting that nuclear fusion requires plasma)?

If we are to assume that X runs on the same "solar energy" as Rock, then X's use of fusion can only mean that "solar energy" in this context is properly understood in the broader sense of "energy relating to the sun", and not necessarily just passively gathering the sun's electromagnetic radiation, as we understand it with real-world technology.  Mega Man/Rockman would not be the first sci-fi franchise to do this, either (look up the specifics of what powers a Star Destroyer sometime).

Incidentally, this is something I already brought up, twice, and you've continued to neglect it.  As an in-game stated fact it's particularly relevant to an argument consisting of "because Capcom said so", don't you think?  Unless you can show otherwise, we have no grounds for discarding it, so it must co-exist with the sourcebook statements.

So the next time you complain about our discussions being circular (and you're right, this is far from the first time), don't just point the finger at us.  You're guilty of the same.  You have a tendency to simply re-state your rationale rather than acknowledge a matter of interpretation and actively attempt to debunk anything.

And as far as information access goes, the Reploid Research Lavatory is a FRIKKIN HUGE deposit of information which is indexed by absolutely nothing other than SB20's post date.  I shouldn't have to explain to you why keeping up with every morsel out of there is a task and a half.  Whatever information you're basing your argument on, it is expected that you are familiar with it, and it is your responsibility to present it, rather than just assume that everyone "should" know.  You don't see me throwing that in your face when I have to reference an in-game spec sheet to you, something which is infinitely easier to find.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 04:45:52 AM by Hypershell »

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Offline Acrosurge

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2010, 04:54:35 PM »
Well, Sigma now appears to be one of the antagonistic forces in Rockman Online.  So does that change anyone's view of this project's place in the canon?  After all, Lumine stated categorically in X8 that Sigma would be gone for good.  He's clearly not gone for good in this game.  Any educated thoughts?


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Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2010, 07:06:40 PM »
Well, Sigma now appears to be one of the antagonistic forces in Rockman Online.  So does that change anyone's view of this project's place in the canon?  After all, Lumine stated categorically in X8 that Sigma would be gone for good.  He's clearly not gone for good in this game.  Any educated thoughts?

Either that's not really Sigma, Lumine was wrong, or any chance of RO fitting into MMX continuity is still nil.

Offline Reaperoid

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #60 on: December 31, 2010, 07:35:29 PM »

Welcome to September. Sure, it's not THE Sigma, but it's A Sigma.

Putting arguments over specific continuity details aside, can't it be assumed that the URA use some method similar to the UCA in order to bring back otherwise deceased Irregular Repliroids and Humaroids? Wall of text inbound... >_>
I guess all I can really say is it isn't exactly what I'd expect out of a $4.4M game

It doesn't even have mouth animations

Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #61 on: December 31, 2010, 07:44:33 PM »
Putting arguments over specific continuity details aside, can't it be assumed that the URA use some method similar to the UCA in order to bring back otherwise deceased Irregular Repliroids and Humaroids?

It could be assumed, but then it'd mean MORE CLONES. D:

Offline Hypershell

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #62 on: December 31, 2010, 09:23:08 PM »
Why would that be surprising?  Who in all of RMO have we confirmed ISN'T a clone?  Even the navigators are questionable considering that Iris is among them (and really, who here buys Signas, Alia, and Layer outliving X and Zero?).

Putting arguments over specific continuity details aside, can't it be assumed that the URA use some method similar to the UCA in order to bring back otherwise deceased Irregular Repliroids and Humaroids? Wall of text inbound... >_>
I certainly don't see why not.

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Offline Gaia

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #63 on: December 31, 2010, 09:38:00 PM »
(and really, who here buys Signas, Alia, and Layer outliving X and Zero?).

They still have a job to do, so they aren't stored in a musem somewhere, considering reploids don't necessarily age (considering that kind of technology doesn't exist..yet in the MMO timeline, by that time however it looks as if they have perfected cloning rather than aging)

The Questioning of the real Sigma possibly returning, now THAT is something to look into with the MMO's recent update.
Workshop/DA/YT/Photobucket なにかんがえてるの!?
So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

Yep, every time when someone mentions that game people get energized for an apparent reason whatsoever. It's like this everywhere else, trust me.

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Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #64 on: December 31, 2010, 10:58:06 PM »
Why would that be surprising?  Who in all of RMO have we confirmed ISN'T a clone?  Even the navigators are questionable considering that Iris is among them (and really, who here buys Signas, Alia, and Layer outliving X and Zero?).

Not surprising, just depressing.

I really, really hope that they can do something impressive with all these clones, and that they didn't go with that angle just because it'd mean not bothering with an extensive character creation system.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #65 on: January 01, 2011, 06:22:03 PM »
Well, Gonzo, as fun as character creation is (and I LOVE IT, believe me), it really doesn't work with a franchise that throughout its entire life has highlighted its playable characters.  The alternative is to throw every familiar character into the "NPC" category, which IMHO would have been a lot worse.  This way, people can pick their favorite, without half the group fighting over who gets to be Zero.

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Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #66 on: January 01, 2011, 07:36:45 PM »
When put that way...I guess it makes sense, then. (Though IIRC the DBZ games did the same thing, and its MMO didn't resort to cloning)

Still, I have to wonder if they could've justified mass cloning WITHOUT killing everyone (Navigators possibly included). Maybe the heroes realized that things had gotten so bad that simply one of each of them wasn't enough? Maybe their armour was mass-produced? Instead--well, at this point I'd just be a broken record.

Offline Flame

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2011, 10:17:01 AM »
Well, for one, Id doubt the real deals would accept something like cloning the likes of themselves and Hunters.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2011, 01:34:22 PM »
Necessary evil? I dunno.


Blues has been highlighted at the RMO blog; it's implied that he'll have a major role in the plot.

Protodude says he's been resurrected, so if that's true, we can already glean two things: 1.) he died prior to RMO (durr), and 2.) unless I've forgotten something about the bad guys, he's probably a clone. GGNNNNAAAAARRGH

Offline Flame

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2011, 03:58:03 PM »
You should have seen it coming.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2011, 03:59:27 PM »
You should have seen it coming.

True.

There was still hope, though...

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2011, 04:09:20 PM »

Oh, hi. Blues, was it?
I guess all I can really say is it isn't exactly what I'd expect out of a $4.4M game

It doesn't even have mouth animations

Offline Blackhook

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #72 on: January 27, 2011, 04:18:36 PM »
I like how the ingame designs look nothing like in the promo vid :D

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #73 on: January 27, 2011, 09:45:34 PM »
I like how Blues' belt is pointing directly at his "Blues buster"

Offline Flame

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Re: The story of Rockman Online
« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2011, 11:48:23 PM »
lol it is.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.