[sonic slicer] about Sonic

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Offline Satoryu

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Reply #1250 on: August 19, 2017, 12:03:50 AM
Only thing I can complain about Mania are some of the bosses. Some were a bit too cinematic and grandiose. That also led to at least one of them (Stardust Speedway's boss. Gee I wonder who that could be?) being pretty janky.

Getting gold medals on all the bonus stages is the last trophy I have to get, and it's pretty challenging. I have to look up solutions for some.


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Offline Flame

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Reply #1251 on: August 19, 2017, 06:42:22 AM
[spoiler=wall o' quotes because I really have nothing better to do and really miss having actual conversation on this place]
So we're not allowed a "darker Sonic story" anymore? That's so narrow-minded and shallow thinking there buddy.
I never felt that "dark" and "serious" EVER fit with Sonic. This is the kind of thing that gave us Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06. where it's all srs bsns and both are not generally regarded as high points. Sonic has always been a somewhat whimsical character, who's "edgy" personality was to the extent that he wagged his finger and gave you a smug grin. I mean for pete's sake, it's a series about busting little woodland animals out of containers and robots, while chasing a fat scientist who looks like Teddy Roosevelt. The Adventure games tackled darker themes, sure, but they were also very much a product of their time. And those times change. in the late 90's and early 00's, edge was the order of the day. if you can make it darker, do it. But even then, there's a difference between Sonic running through Metal harbor, which despite the setting, is bright and cheery, or tails driving on a not-san fransisco highway, and running through a burning spagonia under seige.

tl;dr my point is, dark and serious never worked too well for sonic. SA2 was about the limit of what was acceptable, but again, within context.

I mean, even in the grand scheme of things, the "dark" stories are pretty few. There's SA2, ShTHH, Sonic 06, and we'll see- but seemingly Forces too. Sonic doesnt work well with deep drama stories because he's a blue cartoony anthropomorphic hedgehog.
 
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The reason for the "talking during the gameplay segment" is to convey the serious of the situation they're in
they can do that without annoying me during gameplay. I want to listen to the music and pay attention to whats happening around me. I don't need 5 characters talking at me while I do that. It's annoying and distracting. I didn't like it when it was just vector screaming about computer rooms, I didn't like it when Generations final boss did it, and I especially dont like it when they aren't even present around me and are just floating disembodied voices.

 
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and communication is key to direction their advancements and information to topple ol' Egghead of his newfound reign of the world.
is that a gameplay thing? no? Then it isn't necessary. That's a story element. And that has it's place, but not during gameplay, unless I'm hitting a question mark for hints. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me lose hope in the game. it's not a cutscene, or an in-game cutscene or some small dialog at the start/end of the level, it's a full blown conversation between SEVERAL characters over the gameplay. I mean come on, even Sonic 06 did this right. I sincerely hope that this is a unique thing to one or two intro levels and doesn't represent the whole game.

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Characters can interact with each other both in and out of cutscenes which is neat.

opinions, but it's really not. Unless they are interacting in a meaningful story related way in, say, a cutscene, or, unless there is a hub where I can talk to characters, then having disembodied voices talking at me over gameplay is not great. Especially for a Sonic game. Again, context matters. in an RPG, or say, a MGS game, you expect this sort of thing. But not from Sonic.

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Also I like how the characters talk to the Avatar as well in the stages.
I assume the avatar is mute due to logistics issues with choosable voices etc, but it's going to be really awkward and is going to make the writing even more one sided than it was in Generations, considering classic sonic isalso mute, and we now have a game with a more meaty plot than generations did. That's 2 mute MAIN characters interacting with modern Sonic.

 
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It's cool to see Knuckles believe in you and seems like a mentor of sorts which I like and how you empress the other characters like Espio and Charmy as well.
I think we'll never agree on our tastes, but I still feel that this is something that could be accomplished in other ways instead of during gameplay. Show, don't tell. Just having character dialogue boxes over the gameplay talking is the lazy way out.

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I don't find anything wrong with the level designs.

over reliance on springs and speed boosters, at least thats how it seemed to me. And... I dont know, I can't put my finger on it, but it just seems off. Speaking strictly classic here mind you. Modern has his own issues, which stem less from the physics or anything, and more from just the general gameplay style having grown somewhat stale, as well as it's reliance on 2D segments being redundant with Classic Sonic.

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They look epic and really illustrate the world is falling apart and becoming a ruin with Eggman in charge.
matter of taste I suppose. Just goes back to my feelings on dark in Sonic stories. I mean, Unleashed did the "eggman gets his way" thing better in my opinion. Eggmanland was a nice show of Eggman in charge, without needing to have disaster porn in a sonic game. (despite the whole split the earth thing)

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Music is great as well as it's a throwback to SA2 with vocal tracks as well which I love as SA1 and 2 were my second and third favorite Sonic games.
I suppose music is entirely subjective, Im just not a fan of some of what I've heard. That green hill zone particularly grated on my ears.

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Physics are off? I don't see it, maybe not as accurate with the Sonic Mania but they're two different kind of games and uses two different engines so some things need to be change to fit the tone and gameplay style of the game.
it's not about tone or style, it's about modern Sonic team literally not knowing how to do momentum based physics. Yknow, the one thing vitally important if you are going to actively try to incorporate "classic" Sonic gameplay. I mean I get it, this game probably started development right after Generations and they just ported over the classic physics, but it's a tough break having to live up to Mania's near perfect classic physics.

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And Infinite? Well aside from his song, I don't see anything "edgy" about him. What is edgy anyway?
He literally looks like a deviantart design of the "HE'S THE MOST POWERFUL!!!" variety. he has an over the top 'dark" design, a tryhard name, he floats, I mean man, Mephistopheles seriously has nothing on this guy.

 
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Everyone throws it around like they know what it means
people know exactly what it means. Edgy is Shadow with a gun with metal blaring in the background. Edgy is a super powerful ancient evil being that looks like an evil version of Shadow, impaling Sonic through the back.

Honestly, Shadow himself was fairly edgy in his own origin, complete with government cover ups and murder. Though he's of the more tame variety. (by today's standards anyway)


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He's sinister no doubt, cunning, clever, powerful, prideful given his attitude towards Sonic. To me he knows can't be beat and is mocking his enemies around for fun. I guess a tad arrogant to beat.
that's kind of why he's edgy m8. That, coupled with his design, I mean, I would almost believe it was parody if I didn't honestly think Sega is playing this 100% straight faced.

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He's an interesting character
he's literally a cliche

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why does he have these powers?
this at least, we can possibly confirm where, though spoilers-

[spoiler]He has the weird emerald from Mania. Mania basically ties into Forces[/spoiler]

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So far I'm more interest and excited for Forces than Mania. I like Mania, I'm enjoying the game... but ultimately I want to play Forces more than Mania. Mostly for the Story and the Character Creation and I'm loving what I'm seeing of the game.
well good for you. Something for everyone this year at least. I do still think the character creator is a genius move on Sega's part, considering the fandom's penchant for creating OC's since the earliest days

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Though I wonder if Forces well outsell Mania? Mania is a love letter to old fans well Forces is something new and for both old and new fans so Forces make get more sells.
Forces has an immediate advantage in having an actual physical copy, which makes for easier marketing. (AKA grandma seeing it on the shelf) But I think you really overestimate the "new fans" thing. I would argue that while that is a nice marketing line, it's not really the case. Sega knows it's Sonic fanbase. And this is a game that answers both the request for Generations 2, and for the friends to come back after being gone since 06. I mean what really about this game would appeal to a "new" fan, someone who's never played Sonic, any more than any other recent Sonic game like Unleashed or Colors, or Generations even? The character creator? because that would be about it, but that's not exactly a great way to bring in new fans, considering they would be in it for the OC, something that probably won't be in future games, instead of bringing them in by selling them Sonic himself.
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Kids like imagining their own characters and Character Creation might cause the game to sell more, but then again it looks fun as well.
I honestly don't think the creator is aimed at the kids. I mean, I'm sure kids might love it, but again, Sega knows their audience, and they are just cashing in on the decades old OC fandom. I don't see Sega going out of their way with a character creator just to try to bring kids on board. If Sonic isn't good enough to sell them, I don't know what is. Might as well make something else then.

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Then again I don't care if Mania or Forces sells more than the other
In the grand scheme of things, it's all just videogames so who cares, but I'd say more than sales, critical reception matters. AKA how people reacted to it, because already, Izuka was surprised by the positive reception the Mania announcement got. He wasn't expecting people to react positively to it. And we know basically everyone loves the game. Remains to be seen just how much love or hate Forces gets, considering Mania has basically stole it's spotlight

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So if you don't like Sonic Forces that's fine, but keep the toxic attitude and comments to yourself. If you got nothing nice to say then don't say it at all.
I was voicing my opinion man, don't have a cow. This IS the [sonic slicer] about Sonic thread after all. It's par for the course.[/spoiler]

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Offline Sakura Leic

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Reply #1252 on: August 19, 2017, 07:07:06 AM
Behold my impressions of Sonic Forces thus far.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Current playthrough: Chrono Trigger and God Eater Ressurection


Offline Adelaide

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Reply #1253 on: August 19, 2017, 07:46:12 AM
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Everyone's so salty and angry nowadays I don't anything to do with them. Fandoms nowadays are taking these WAY out of proportion.

I'ma be real. This is basically why ya'll never see me around here. *shrugs* Maybe my "old age" has mellowed me out a lot... (Or HRT) but yeah. It's too much.

But I guess that is the theme of this thread. It just seems so commonplace anywhere though. Well, either way, both games look good. I got nothing to really offer to the topic at hand though, other than I agree with this one quoted bit right here.



Offline Reaperoid

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Reply #1254 on: August 19, 2017, 09:20:03 AM
ITT: baww Sonic is good again

I guess all I can really say is it isn't exactly what I'd expect out of a $4.4M game

It doesn't even have mouth animations


Offline Kieran

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Reply #1255 on: August 19, 2017, 03:32:15 PM
ITT: baww Sonic is good again

But not good enough bawwwww

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Offline VirusChris

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Reply #1256 on: August 23, 2017, 10:31:16 PM
Anyone catch up on the latest news revealed on Sonic Forces?

First thing first Hairstyles for Custom Hero is confirmed and showed in a screenshot from Famitsu.

There's a 4th Gameplay mode called "Tag Team Stages" which involves both Sonic and the Custom Hero teaming up together on stage and is mostly, if not totally, in complete 3D stages and you gain a tag team ability called "Double Boost" which is like the Speed Boost from Modern Sonic's stages except it sort of slows down everything around you (kinda like what Sonic Colors did with Speed Boost) and go faster.

They mention the Custom Hero teaming up with classic Sonic characters which could mean perhaps Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and the rest might be semi-playable in the Tag Team stages or AI controlled like Tails from Sonic 2, 3, Knuckles, and Mania in a way. Then again the details are vague, it might be just Sonic and Classic Sonic but they could add in the other Sonic characters as Team mates on the stages.

Also it seems like they have a "Team Special Move" in one of the screenshot. Something similar to Team Specials from Sonic Heroes perhaps? Would be a nice nod.

Custom Hero gains a Drill Wisp weapon and something akin to the Cube Wisp power from Colors that is a Hammer Weapon that freezes enemies into cube and scatters to become rings.

However in the Famitsu article it mentioned the Development Team considering adding a DRAGON race for the Custom Hero but they cancelled it on the grounds it did not fit the Sonic game. You had Vector, a crocodile, breath FIRE in Sonic Heroes at level 3 and you're saying a DRAGON doesn't fit a Sonic game? Are you kidding me dude!

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Nakamura says in the interview "We were originally going to include Dragon species in Sonic Forces, but later we figured it wouldn't fit in with a Sonic game, so we cancelled it. As a result of discussions with staff, mainly about popular animals, we've picked out 7 types of animals."
"最初はドラゴンなどもいたのですが、ドラゴンがソニックに出てくるのはどうかな…ということで、人気のある動物を中心にスタッフと話し合った結果、7種類をピックアップしました。"

[spoiler]
[youtube]qSaBeCiJkqg[/youtube]

[youtube]qytRz8tsSAY[/youtube]

[youtube]bm63kvv8SII[/youtube]
[/spoiler]

Also more details include "character development" in the story. The story will be "emotional" and have "drama" they mentioned, but also have light-hearted moments that Sonic games is usually known for and characters will interact a lot more in the story segments. I need to find the source of this story details, people are mentioning it but I haven't figured out there. Might be the Famitsu article, but I don't know the full translated version.

Also there's rumors about a character "dying" in the game... like something from a previous Sonic game did before.

Well these are JUST rumors for a supposed "leaked" video, but I'll post them anyway:

- There will be another playable characters (Basically what have been said in this video. Some characters will also be semi-playable.)
- Amy, Silver, Knuckles and other characters will have actual character developments with Sonic.
- Another classic characters returning (What have been said in this video as well)
- A Major plot twist involving Infinite
- Some easter eggs from certain avatar combinations
- The story has some 'emotional' and feel-good moments. As well as drama between characters.
- Many would have guessed why Shadow is with Infinite. Chaos and Zavok are both fighting for similar reason.
- Tails won't die but another character will die however.
- Silver will be going back in time and there will be multiple missions based around him.
- Wisps are important to the story.

Don't know if these are true or not, but just letting you guys know. Just hold it with a grain of salt if you will.

And we got a release date. It comes out November 7th for the US and Europe with Japan getting it on the 9th. So sort of a global release. Honestly I was expecting it coming out in December, but this is good.

I'm really looking forward to more info on Sonic Forces! It's sounding better and better!


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Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #1257 on: August 23, 2017, 11:11:55 PM
Especially after playing Sonic Mania, the more I see from Sonic Forces the more I want to vomit.


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Offline VirusChris

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Reply #1258 on: August 24, 2017, 01:02:18 AM
Why is that? Currently I like Sonic Mania, but I like Sonic 3 & Knuckles more than it for a few reasons.
I'm looking forward to Forces more so than I did with Mania.

Honestly think it might one of the better 3D Sonic games.


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Offline Phi

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Reply #1259 on: August 24, 2017, 05:40:05 AM
Well, no Sonic game can ever surpass S3&K.

However, Sonic Mania's quality is certainly high up, in terms of level design. It's fantastic.

A surprising amount of people hate Blue Spheres for some reason, but I always liked it. That being said, they were a little too monotonous in Mania, and should have been divided with gambling bonus stages or maybe something new entirely.



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Reply #1260 on: August 24, 2017, 04:02:52 PM
Especially after playing Sonic Mania, the more I see from Sonic Forces the more I want to vomit.

Tbh, this...sounded really weird/contradicting coming from a fellow game developer such as you...

I don't really know why people hating Sonic Forces so much to the point not even giving it a chance. I've been playing since 1,2,3&K on Genesis since I was kid, skipping Adventure series, and played the hell out of Advance, Heroes and Generations. The only game I pulled myself out was Shadow the Hedgehog and Unleashed PS2. I never played Secret Rings/Black Knight/06/Colors/Rush/Boom/Lost World because I had no console at the time.

I'm more of a fan of Sonic than Mario since I can remember so I'm not sure if this is nostalgia googles in the works or just hating the 3d sonic games in general because some colossal Sonic game failures that you can just count on 1 hand(or 2 hands), and the only colossal fail I hear was 06 and the first 2 Boom because those two(3) game in its entirety are full of glitches. Other Sonic games I heard of are just average or mediocre at best.

They did good on Generations, and with the long development length on Force I can only hope for Sega to deliver the game.



Offline Phi

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Reply #1261 on: August 24, 2017, 10:35:31 PM
What does him being a game developer have to do with anything



Offline VirusChris

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Reply #1262 on: August 24, 2017, 10:55:58 PM
New videos released today! A look at the new Tag Team Stage

[youtube]o4UwxxN5v94[/youtube]

[youtube]NgSIlSk4kGU[/youtube]

Looks like the Tag Team Stages are in FULL 3D so there's that. And then it seems to have branching routes as well with a call back to the "Lightspeed Dash" from Sonic Adventure and classic Platforming as well. Also a first look at the Cube Wispon which freezes enemies and does indeed give you rings upon destroying them. Seems to be a "safe" weapon to use to gain back rings you lost or get Lives easier.

Also instead of controlling one character you control both Sonic and the Avatar at the same time for the Tag Team Stages and use their abilities together, in a sense of Sonic Heroes instead of an AI-controlled partner. Which is nice, I don't mind, and the Double Boost is only for certain parts of the stages. I like that Sonic and the Avatar fist bump each other when they do it (or are they doing a side-high five).

The first part of the new Pyramid stage (I wonder if this is Sandopolis?) is fairly simple and straightforward until you get to the second part of the stage which is inside where all of the gears and platform are and it's so cool. Reminds me of Eggman's hidden base in the Pyramid from SA2.


And a remix of the VS Metal Sonic theme from Sonic CD:
[youtube]NhwBpAQnYvs[/youtube]

I'm really loving the remix of this track! And going with the whole red glitch aura around Metal Sonic I believe that Infinite is using his powers to make all of Eggman's "generals" in this army more powerful so Metal Sonic can use some of Infinite's abilities in battle making him more dangerous. I don't believe they're mind-controlled, except maybe Chaos.

Makes me what other themes they're going to remix for Shadow, Chaos, and Zavok.

I know Sonic is known for some light and good nature fun and adventure, but I do like it when it goes a more serious route at times. Like that old Sonic cartoon that was amazing as it was a serious storyline.


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Offline Frozen Potato

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Reply #1263 on: August 25, 2017, 02:11:12 AM
What does him being a game developer have to do with anything

Well I just kinda assumed that being a game developer he'd at least hold a bit of respect to the development of any game considering he knows how the inside work of game development, more so on a game that's not even released yet. Well...that's my assumption, I can't argue that anyone would have a different opinion and some bias but for a game developer going to the point of having an absolute disgust to a game that's not even out yet just seems kinda off for me.



Offline Flame

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Reply #1264 on: August 25, 2017, 02:16:54 AM
You say full 3D, but Jesus, they are more linear than ever. They might as well be 2D. A good chunk of that stage is literally a straight path. In fact, I'd like to know how the player actually managed to run into one of the stationary not-egg pawns with how linear and on rails the gameplay is.

It's amazing how the Level design has gone downhill from Unleashed. Unleashed started this trend of linear sort of roller coaster boost gameplay, but damn, at least it had better design and overall aesthetics. Something like Apotos day or Empire City day blows this game out of the water.

Also, oh great, tag team stages. Now we get to have Sonic be forced to tag along in a stage with the OC, with cringy dialogue like "we'll blitz them and clear a path for the resistance! right, partner?"

I'm not feeling what I'm seeing with that.

And that Metal Sonic remix is awful and totally doesn't fall in line with the kind of atmosphere the original CD US track had.

How can it be that generations got it right, (on a track that wasn't even the default, but an unlockable) and this one is so bad?

! No longer available

Well I just kinda assumed that being a game developer he'd at least hold a bit of respect to the development of any game considering he knows how the inside work of game development, more so on a game that's not even released yet. Well...that's my assumption, I can't argue that anyone would have a different opinion and some bias but for a game developer going to the point of having an absolute disgust to a game that's not even out yet just seems kinda off for me.
Developers are people too
They have tastes just like anyone else. Having an understanding of the development process does not change their perception of a game. If anything, it makes them even more critical.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Frozen Potato

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Reply #1265 on: August 25, 2017, 02:49:36 AM
Tbf, you guys are being too critical on a game that's NOT EVEN OUT YET it's really grating to even read. They specifically mentioned the demo stages have most its content that will be in the release version is cut out for demo purpose. Would have been a lot more worth for you guys to keep  judgement till the game is out instead of relying on trailers and demo to even give a full critic in the first place.



Offline Blue Valkyrie

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Reply #1266 on: August 25, 2017, 03:30:06 AM
Honestly I agree, the game isnt out yet, I dont see anything that made red alert noises go off in my head like I did with Mass Effect Andromeda so I'm gonna judge it at launch like most reasonable people are.

Also that remix is pretty neat!  :)



Offline VirusChris

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Reply #1267 on: August 25, 2017, 03:45:05 AM
Here's a clear and direct feed of the Tag Team Stage... and showing off the different ways to go about in the stage.

[youtube]HStmu3qJ2kM[/youtube]

The Wispons play a part of finding new routes to play. Honestly when I see a 3D Sonic stage like this, I can't help but think... we're looking at the stages in Sonic' PoV. When we played the 2D Sonic games it's on the side so we go left and right... so turn that 2D stage forward to get a 3D look at the world and that's how the stage is.

It's basically the same thing, we're just looking at it at a different view. Not to mention most of the 2D Sonic games is LINEAR too. We just have different branches of reaching the same point. Some of the older 3D Sonic games like the Adventure games had mostly linear paths, but here in Forces I can see there's different ways to get around the stages like Unleashed with its Day Stages. Sure we can't go backwards, but it's the same thing.

I'm not judging the game completely until it's release, but so far everything is looking amazing.

Also you DO realize the remixes for Metal Sonic were the Japanese Sonic CD track for Generations and Mania. Give the US track a chance. Honestly Flame, you're just flaming the game for no reason but to hate it for being a "3D Sonic" and I can't help but find your arguments quite silly and holding no weight to it. You're being overly critical on a game that's only uses like 1/3 of what the stages are going to be like on full release. It's made into short segments to give many players a taste to what to expect.



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Offline Adelaide

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Reply #1268 on: August 25, 2017, 04:11:01 AM
The funny thing is, him being a "game developer" (and I use that term loosely) really means nothing in regards to his opinion on game design. Game Developers have shitty and warped opinions all the time, look at Inafune.

Honestly, the issue here is that people like Objection-Man overlook the brilliance of what Sega has done here. They're releasing two Sonic games close together. One appealing to the past and older/classic gamers and one appealing to the fanbase that is newer and prefers the 3D games. As well as the fanbase that is enamored with the idea of making their OC.

This is PROBABLY the best move Sega could have made. So instead of shitting on the game that doesn't appeal to your niche, maybe it's better to acknowledge the genius of this. And yeah, I get this thread is "[sonic slicer] about Sonic" but... I also feel like it really makes the old***s look like assholes more than anything, especially since you're bitching about something that isn't out yet and might be a decent game.

But I mean, what do I know. I'm not a "game developer"



Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #1269 on: August 25, 2017, 04:59:00 AM
Time to get crucified for shitty opinions, but I kind of liked 3D Sonic more than 2D in a few ways. Being able to see farther ahead into the level being one of them. I felt like the old 2D games were perhaps too fast for the forward viewing distance you were given. The GBA games compound this by having even LESS screen space, and possibly even higher speeds. Though I'm not sure about the second part there.

And yes, I'm aware that I am shitting on a game that isn't out yet, but being a designer I can imagine the way it plays based on Generations and the other 3D Sonic games. The picture isn't pretty for me. Forces falls into the trap that a lot of the 3D ones have. Lack of a focus on the core principles of the franchise, too many characters, and too much edgelord (here in the form of awful custom characters).

Modern Sonic needs to K.I.S.S. (keep it simple, stupid). But continually they fail to realize this and end up with an over bloated mess. The lack of focus moves the game away from its fast action roots and instead bogs down the experience with fluff. They can add as many upgrades, extra items, custom characters, new 'friends' and all the other [parasitic bomb] they want. If the core game fails to be at least as good as the old ones, why should I care? A shitty cake with extra frosting is still a shitty cake. Fancy, but still shitty.

I think releasing both was a good idea, if both were great games. I just don't think they expected the digital only budget title to have killed it so hard that people may turn their nose up at the 'new' 'better' game.

TL:DR Sonic Team forgot the lessons they learned and went back to their old, sub-par, tricks. Of course losing focus in the process, as usual. Oh and, Classic Sonic loses rings permanently. Yes, that is correct. You cannot pick up rings after taking a hit. A friend at Gamescom reported that back to me on the build he played. I REST MY CASE.


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Offline Phi

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Reply #1270 on: August 25, 2017, 05:01:41 AM
The funny thing is, him being a "game developer" (and I use that term loosely) really means nothing in regards to his opinion on game design. Game Developers have shitty and warped opinions all the time, look at Inafune.

Honestly, the issue here is that people like Objection-Man overlook the brilliance of what Sega has done here. They're releasing two Sonic games close together. One appealing to the past and older/classic gamers and one appealing to the fanbase that is newer and prefers the 3D games. As well as the fanbase that is enamored with the idea of making their OC.

This is PROBABLY the best move Sega could have made. So instead of shitting on the game that doesn't appeal to your niche, maybe it's better to acknowledge the genius of this. And yeah, I get this thread is "[sonic slicer] about Sonic" but... I also feel like it really makes the old***s look like assholes more than anything, especially since you're bitching about something that isn't out yet and might be a decent game.

But I mean, what do I know. I'm not a "game developer"

Being separate is what we initially believed. However, the true ending of Sonic Mania reveals that it is actually a prequel to Forces.

This retarded move was most likely orchestrated by Sega, because I seriously doubt that Christian Whitehead, an avid lover of classic Sonic titles, intended for Mania to connect to Forces.

Bias aside, you also have to realize that Mania is out, and everyone loves it. I even read a review of a man claiming that ALL Sonic games are bad, and Mania is the "first good Sonic game". If this [parasitic bomb] is capable of causing a dumbass like him to acknowledge quality game design, it must be pretty damn impressive.

Forces has to live up to that, so all of the doubt of this being another masterpiece is understandable.



Offline Adelaide

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Reply #1271 on: August 25, 2017, 05:25:27 AM
Being separate is what we initially believed. However, the true ending of Sonic Mania reveals that it is actually a prequel to Forces.

This retarded move was most likely orchestrated by Sega, because I seriously doubt that Christian Whitehead, an avid lover of classic Sonic titles, intended for Mania to connect to Forces.

Bias aside, you also have to realize that Mania is out, and everyone loves it. I even read a review of a man claiming that ALL Sonic games are bad, and Mania is the "first good Sonic game". If this [parasitic bomb] is capable of causing a dumbass like him to acknowledge quality game design, it must be pretty damn impressive.

Forces has to live up to that, so all of the doubt of this being another masterpiece is understandable.

It doesn't HAVE to live up to anything. Story related or not, they are two different games. Yes, same IP, same general genre... but they are still different games. Why should Forces have to stand up to something that isn't like Forces? Forces should be compared to Modern Sonic games.

That's all there is to it. Anything else is just bias and irrelevant. But there's no real discussion with Sonic fans, especially those who only like the 2D games.

Time to get crucified for shitty opinions, but I kind of liked 3D Sonic more than 2D in a few ways. Being able to see farther ahead into the level being one of them. I felt like the old 2D games were perhaps too fast for the forward viewing distance you were given. The GBA games compound this by having even LESS screen space, and possibly even higher speeds. Though I'm not sure about the second part there. (AND OTHER THINGS THAT WERE SAID)

Honestly, I'm with you on this first bit here. I prefer the 3D games for those same reasons... I'm not a speed junkie honestly. I also happen to like a lot of the games that got considerable flack. Like Shadow the Hedgehog. It wasn't *great*, but it wasn't objectively terrible. Which I think is a key thing to keep in mind.

What is something that is Objectively bad? MN9 is an example of something that was just objectively bad. And the funny thing? People expected and imagined it to be good, before they found out otherwise.

My point is, whether you think you know something is going to be terrible or not isn't an objective truth and maybe it should be held fast until you have a legitimate reason to say otherwise. But that's just my two cents on this matter. There's a reason why I stay away from this stuff, I don't feel like getting dragged into video game community nonsense... and yet here I am. I guess it's in my blood or something.



Offline Phi

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Reply #1272 on: August 25, 2017, 06:15:30 AM
Mania and Forces were revealed on literally the same day, and now we recently found out that they're two sides of the same coin.

It's only natural for comparisons to be drawn between them.



Offline Adelaide

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Reply #1273 on: August 25, 2017, 07:18:08 AM
Not really. That's an argument in ignorance. If Square Enix released Final Fantasy 16 and 17 at the same time and they are linked together story-wise, but one is a turn-based JRPG and the other is an ARPG, should the two be compared? That's just... asinine. Yes, the stories should be compared and talked about, because they're linked, they're in the same vein. But the gameplay? I just... no. No, Phi. No.



Offline Phi

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Reply #1274 on: August 25, 2017, 07:33:49 AM
Forces, like Mania, has side-scrolling stages with classic Sonic, and if the level design and/or physics are inferior to Mania's, there is a plausible basis to compare them.

Same as the time when people acknowledged that Sonic 4's physics were horrible, when compared to Sonic 1-3 and CD.