Author Topic: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus  (Read 25988 times)

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Offline Zan

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Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« on: April 16, 2010, 05:13:58 PM »
As we all know, the story summary on the ZERO collection site has given us some brand new info covering three series.

http://www.themmnetwork.com/2010/04/09/does-the-rockman-zero-collection-storyline-explain-everything/

Said info having put the status of X7, 8 and CM into question. But let's ignore that here and focus on one particularly controversial statement in the summary; the details behind Zero's change of allegiance and the origins of Sigma Virus in relation to that.

Relevant quotes on this subject are:

Quote
Sigma Virus
Zero was the first repliroid to be infected with the Sigma Virus but
Zero which was developed by Wily to be a completely evil repliroid,
despite being infected by Sigma Virus isn't transformed into an irregular, [instead]
was reborn as a good repliroid.

1XX years ago
The birth of Zero

Zero was produced by Dr. Wily, who schemed at taking over the world. But he contained a flaw in his cognitive program that made him violent and unwilling to obey instructions, so Dr. Wily himself sealed Zero in a capsule.

1XX years ago
The Sigma Virus outbreak

A subspecies of the terrible computer virus from long ago is generated, and begins driving robots mad locally. The human leadership acknowledges these infected robots as Mavericks, and orders them to be disposed of. The source was found to be an unknown computer virus that had prevailed over 100 years ago emerging from the capsule Zero slumbered in. Later, this virus was named the Sigma Virus, after the Reploid “Sigma” who led a revolt against the human leadership.

1XX years ago
Zero awakens

Receiving information of Zero awakening from his capsule and causing violence, the Maverick Hunter Sigma finds and intercepts him. during this incident, Sigma is infected by the unknown computer virus leaking out from Zero’s capsule, but at the same time Zero, having his armor damaged in the battle with Sigma, also becomes infected with the virus. Due to this, Zero’s personality completely changed, and he would turn to working as a Maverick Hunter.

There are quite a couple of paradoxical implications in the aforementioned info. Most of all being how the virus would affect Zero to become good, even though X2 and X5 use the same virus in a completely different manner.

Given the paragraph on Zero's creation, it seems the immediate implication here is that Zero was intended to have Sigma Virus used on him to counter the flaw in his cognitive program, which seemingly worked, but not completely in the manner Wily wanted it. However that only opens a whole slew of other matters to address.

Why is Zero not infected until after Sigma damages him, even though the virus originates from his capsule? How is Zero the first infected when the virus was already infecting Repliroids prior to his awakening and turning them into the first irregulars? Not to mention the extremely close time proximity in which Sigma himself got awakened.

Not only that, but why is the capsule implicated as the origin of the virus here? This appears to contradict quite a lot of what we know. Sigma's statement to Zero in X8 comes immediately to mind but also:

Quote
Rockman X4 Himitsu Daizukan
ゼロのイレギュラーのウイルスにおかされて、シグマは、じゃあくになってしまう。
Invaded by Zero's irregular virus, Sigma became evil.

Rockman Perfect Memories:
Exactly what kinds of secrets are sleeping in Zero's past?
Zero has almost no memory of the past.  However, sometimes he seems to see a person resembling Dr. Wily in his dreams.  And it's also said that Zero was born with the Sigma Virus already inside of him. His creation is it actually to battle with whom?  One would never think it was for justice, however...
X: He was made by Dr. Right.  Will the time for his fated battle with Zero come?
Dr. Wily: The one who put the Sigma Virus in Zero is, perhaps him......

Interview with Inafune:
Sigma and Zero basically represent the idea that nothing is absolute. Sigma was a powerful leader of the Maverick Hunters but after Zero passed the virus to him, his allegiance changed.  Circumstances can change anything, and nothing is absolute.

So all in all, there's a lot we have to reconcile here. I'm personally thinking Zero's natural virus immunity lies at the root of all this, but I'd like to hear other people's thoughts about this subject.

Offline Jetfire

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2010, 07:56:43 PM »
Personally I think this newly released summary is similar to the "three keys" section of MMZOCW: storyline material that was in the early stages of the series but ultimately abandoned.

Offline Mirby

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 09:44:35 PM »
I think the immunity route is the best possible explanation that stays within canon...
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Offline Zan

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 09:55:20 PM »
Quote
Personally I think this newly released summary is similar to the "three keys" section of MMZOCW: storyline material that was in the early stages of the series but ultimately abandoned.

I don't think taking the summary in such a way fits with the way they referenced Rockman10. There's no way they could have taken into account a virus from space during the early stages of the ZERO-series' development.

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 10:25:03 PM »
I suppose, for the purpose of the earlier books "Zero's capsule" could be considered an extension of "Zero" in the same manner that pre-Sigma strains of the Maverick virus are still referred to as "Sigma Virus".  The terminology being as loose as it is already, it really is something we should consider, particularly with regards to the source of Sigma's infection.  Never previously was there a reason to draw a distinction between Zero's capsule and Zero himself, in terms of where the virus was brewing.

As for the status of Zero's own infection, the RPM book seems to be speaking in "maybes", so they can be dismissed as implications rather than facts.  On the surface, this does seem to show that Zero's origins have been changed.

But that's not to say we need to discard all that the book has told us; there are ways of re-interpreting it rather than discarding it.  In light of Inti's timeline, the train of thought I'm usually seeing is that the virus exposure is what caused Zero's headache, and some scratch from earlier allowed the viral infection.  But we don't know that to be the case.  It seems senseless, if Wily deems it necessary to guard Zero against the virus for the time being, for such trivial scratches (no visible harm came to Zero, so any damage prior to the head-punch was exceedingly minor) to wreck his immunity.  For that matter, should physical armor be all that important in preventing computer virus infiltration in the first place, or as with X, should we instead be looking at mental states?

Moving Zero's birth to 1XX years ago mandates that Wily was alive (read: already cheating death) and completed Zero relatively close to X-series timeframe, so it confirms Wily as a possible background character during all X-series events.  Suppose the W-headache is not a viral reaction, but a control measure akin to X6's force field.  Wily could be stopping Zero in mid-battle, making the call that he is now ready for viral infusion, and Zero would have been KOed, and infected while he was down.  Both sources would remain true as to who, Sigma or Wily, is responsible for Zero's initial infection, by having both play a part in it.

As for Zero being "born with" the virus, that could simply be read to refer to the "Hunter" Zero.

For the effects of the virus in later games, most notably X5, there are several things to consider.  One, we're dealing with new viral strains, which could be tailored to have different effects.  Two, we're dealing with a different Zero body; the X1 body may have never been intended to awaken but could instead be a safeguard to perfect Zero's consciousness without unleashing his full power too soon.  Three, for all his power and seeming evilness, Awakened Zero is not in the least aggressive, challenging X openly, waiting for him, and caring nothing for the other conflicts of the world.  If the virus's effect is read not as allegiance, but as curbing Zero's emotions, then the effect remains constant: Zero's emotions growing progressively less severe from flashback, to Hunter, to Awakened.  From raging out of control, to balanced, to indifferent.

Overall, while the timeline provides a lot of new head-scratching details, there's still plenty of ambiguity to work with.

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Offline Zan

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2010, 11:15:26 PM »
Quote
I suppose, for the purpose of the earlier books "Zero's capsule" could be considered an extension of "Zero" in the same manner that pre-Sigma strains of the Maverick virus are still referred to as "Sigma Virus".

I can see that working with the Himitsu Daizukan's statement, even if it came from the capsule, it is still Zero's virus. But Inafune's words provide a problem in that it "passed from Zero to Sigma." Which only works if the way is not Capsule->Zero followed by Capsule->Sigma, but rather Capsule->Zero->Sigma. And if that is what happened, it very much implicates the procedure of Zero's allegiance change could be interrupted by it passing to Sigma.

Quote
Never previously was there a reason to draw a distinction between Zero's capsule and Zero himself, in terms of where the virus was brewing.

I'm mostly concerned with the X8 statement. It says "your virus" in MMX8. But in RX8 Sigma explicitly says something like "from that DNA". Maybe Sigma was instead referring to the creation of the Zero Virus, which was such a huge point in X8? If in reference to the original infection, it only works with the Capsule->Zero->Sigma approach. All in all, I'd like to see a retranslation of that line.

Quote
As for the status of Zero's own infection, the RPM book seems to be speaking in "maybes", so they can be dismissed as implications rather than facts.  On the surface, this does seem to show that Zero's origins have been changed.

Yeah, the RPM quote is very easy to write off as just in-universe hearsay about Zero. But, its statements to coincide with what RZOCW told us: Zero is the first infected with Sigma Virus, he is the source. Which doesn't fly with the capsule and the timing of the Sigma battle in relation to the first irregulars. At face value this means he was infected long before the Zero vs Sigma battle; being infected once again during the battle to cause the allegiance change.

Quote
wreck his immunity.

On that matter, why is Zero even immune to the virus? He was sleeping in the very same capsule that contained the virus. Perhaps Wily is building up Zero's immunity by constant exposure? Or is Wily running something similar to X's 30 years of ethical testing?

Quote
For that matter, should physical armor be all that important in preventing computer virus infiltration in the first place, or as with X, should we instead be looking at mental states?

I think with Zero, it is quite relevant. Remember that his body physically reacts to the virus. If this is compromised by battle damage, the virus is allowed to reach his brain.

Quote
Wily could be stopping Zero in mid-battle, making the call that he is now ready for viral infusion, and Zero would have been KOed, and infected while he was down.  Both sources would remain true as to who, Sigma or Wily, is responsible for Zero's initial infection, by having both play a part in it.

In that scenario, Wily's timing is absolute crap, though. However, the part of "circumstance", is not to be forgotten...

Quote
For the effects of the virus in later games, most notably X5, there are several things to consider.  One, we're dealing with new viral strains, which could be tailored to have different effects.  Two, we're dealing with a different Zero body; the X1 body may have never been intended to awaken but could instead be a safeguard to perfect Zero's consciousness without unleashing his full power too soon.  Three, for all his power and seeming evilness, Awakened Zero is not in the least aggressive, challenging X openly, waiting for him, and caring nothing for the other conflicts of the world.  If the virus's effect is read not as allegiance, but as curbing Zero's emotions, then the effect remains constant: Zero's emotions growing progressively less severe from flashback, to Hunter, to Awakened.  From raging out of control, to balanced, to indifferent.

That's certainly all true. But even with different viruses in play, and the change to Zero's body. There's another question brought up; why is the reaction toward normal Repliroids and Mechaniroids always the same? Perhaps it's time to reevaluate the reason for Three Keys to bring up X's suffering circuit in a predominantly Zero orientated explanation?

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2010, 11:52:41 PM »
I guess I'm just not holding to Zero being infected before the Sigma battle.  It's still "Zero's" virus in that it shares its origins with him.  It came from the same place Zero came from.  It infected Sigma when he fought Zero.  It clearly maintains a link with Zero over the course of the series.  Irregardless of the time of Zero's infection, why shouldn't the virus be associated with Zero?

Whether it's Capsule -> Sigma or Capsule -> Zero -> Sigma is not something that we can expect older sources to accommodate when they predate the notion of drawing lines between Zero and his capsule in the first place.  When before Inti's Zero Collection timeline was Zero's capsule EVER part of the viral equation?  Again, Inafune's words may consider Zero's capsule as an extension of Zero in light of this.  If it's from Zero's capsule, from investigating and battling Zero, then it's still from Zero.

We should also consider that, Zero and Sigma being infected as a result of the same battle, that Zero's infection may have taken hold sooner than Sigma's.  Wasn't there some sourcebook quotes about evil brewing in Sigma gradually, or something to that effect?

In that scenario, Wily's timing is absolute crap, though. However, the part of "circumstance", is not to be forgotten...
I was actually suggesting that, in connection with my earlier line about mental states, that Zero's consciousness needed to be shut down for a bit in order for the virus to do its work in modifying it.  Kinda like how PC updates do not apply until rebooted.  In this case, that reboot was a punch in the head.

Quote
But, its statements to coincide with what RZOCW told us: Zero is the first infected with Sigma Virus, he is the source.
Besides what I already stated above on battle timing, we should also consider that it was the Three Keys that told us that, thus we must take it with the accompanying disclaimer.  Although I'd much sooner accept Sigma's slow descent into evil than Inafune and Inticreates retconning Zero's origins as they were during Z3's concept.

Quote
On that matter, why is Zero even immune to the virus? He was sleeping in the very same capsule that contained the virus. Perhaps Wily is building up Zero's immunity by constant exposure? Or is Wily running something similar to X's 30 years of ethical testing?
That's the big question, isn't it?  Perhaps the single biggest piece of information we are still missing is why Wily kept Zero and the virus separated within the capsule in the first place.  We can only guess.

But on viral immunity, I would suppose that even though Wily has a specific plan for Zero and the virus, he also must see to it that the virus doesn't present a means for others to manipulate him, as it does for other Reploids.  Zero is a real "rule-breaker" in the virus book in that despite his immunity, he is not indifferent to it.  It affects him, but not in the way it affects others.  How/if the capsule separation ties into that is something I think we'd all like to know.

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Offline Zan

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2010, 12:26:11 AM »
For completion's sake, I'm just going to leave these here. Quotes related to Sigma's infection, courtesy of Marshmallow Man:

Rockman X4 X to Z Kouryaku File
かつてはイレギュラーハンター第17部隊の隊長であったシグマ。その圧倒的な戦闘能力は史上最強といわれ、特A級ハンターとして仲間に尊敬され、信頼されていたレプリロイドである。だが、ある日、正体不明の赤いイレギュラー(ゼロ)との戦いにおいて敗北を喫し、最強と自負するプライドがズタズタにされた。このときにゼロからイレギュラー化を促進するウイルスに感染し、邪悪な心が芽生えてしまう。数ヶ月後、完全に邪悪なウイルスの虜となったシグマは、その圧倒的な力と天才的な頭脳で大勢のレプリロイドを従え、人間に対して反乱を起こしたのであった。

Sigma was at one time the Commander of the Irregular Hunter 17th Unit. A Special A Class Hunter, he was called the strongest in history due to his overpowering combat abilities, and gained the confidence and respect of his fellow repliroids. However, on a certain day, he suffered a defeat in battle by an unidentified unknown red irregular (Zero) that tore at his proud ego. At that time he was infected by some manner of virus that facilitates irregularity, germinating wickedness in his heart. Several month later, Sigma was completely enslaved by the evil virus, and used his overwhelming strength and genius intellect to subdue many repliroids into joining him in a revolt against humanity.

Rockman X4 Koushiki Irregular Hunters Manual
しかし、ある日ゼロに敗北し、イレギュラー化するウイルスをうつされてしまった。邪悪な心に支配されたシグマは、人類の敵としてエックスたちの前に何度も現われることになる。

But, one day, [Sigma] suffered a defeat by Zero, and was inflicted with an irregular converting virus. Under  the control of an evil heart, Sigma made enemies of humanity and popped up to cause trouble for X and his companions many times over.

Rockman X4 Saikyou Daizukan
そんな彼が、なぜイレギュラーと化してしまったのだろう?あくまで推測ではあるが、イレギュラーだったZEROと戦ったとき、イレギュラー化を促進するウイルスのようなものを浴びてしまったのが原因ではないだろうか。

Just why did he become irregular? There has been much conjecture, but the actual cause could well be from when was showered in some kind of  irregular-facilitating virus during his fight with the irregularly behaved Zero.

Quote
Besides what I already stated above on battle timing, we should also consider that it was the Three Keys that told us that, thus we must take it with the accompanying disclaimer. 

I don't think it's to be discarded that easily, the Idiom dictionary also makes mention of similar things.

Sigma Virus
ZERO1
A terrifying Virus that makes Reploids go Maverick. Initially, Zero was the only one infected with the Virus, but as he traveled the world to battle Mavericks, he unwittingly spread the Virus.

Underground Laboratory (Forgotten Laboratory)
ZERO 1
The facility built to house Zero, who was discovered to be the source of the Sigma Virus outbreak.

Which is all fine and dandy with Sigma's infection, but it doesn't go with the irregulars being virus infected before Zero even awakens.

Quote
Whether it's Capsule -> Sigma or Capsule -> Zero -> Sigma is not something that we can expect older sources to accommodate when they predate the notion of drawing lines between Zero and his capsule in the first place.

Then, what of Sigma? With Sigma saying "from that DNA", you can't quite relate its origins to a capsule...

Quote
Perhaps the single biggest piece of information we are still missing is why Wily kept Zero and the virus separated within the capsule in the first place. 

Was it separated from Zero to begin with? The virus is spreading all over the place while he still sleeping in it, it must have reached Zero before that, with strange virus induced physical purification effects included. With the way X and Zero mirror each other, I get the feeling something like the ethical testing routine was also performed by Zero's capsule, which required the Sigma Virus.

Offline Align

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2010, 01:41:47 AM »
Maybe the capsule emanates the virus, affecting anything OUTSIDE it, while remaining safely sealed itself?

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2010, 03:57:03 AM »
Which is all fine and dandy with Sigma's infection, but it doesn't go with the irregulars being virus infected before Zero even awakens.
That's more a matter of probability than possibility.  Non-viral Mavericks are a reality, so the question is, would so many have risen to justify the formation of the Hunters?  Who knows, maybe in the early batch program errors and the like were more common.  The virus wasn't known to the Hunters until X3, so Zero Collection's timeline is clearly jumping around in that regard.

Looking at the other side, though, if Zero was already infected during stasis, then why is his fight with Sigma relevant at all?  What is the logic in battle damage allowing re-infection of something Zero was already sleeping in to begin with?

It's not an easy statement to reconcile.

Quote
Then, what of Sigma? With Sigma saying "from that DNA", you can't quite relate its origins to a capsule...
Zero shouldn't even have the same DNA data in X8 as in X1, given that the Control Chip is the only part to survive that timeframe.  But Zero and the virus (or the strain he was sealed with, anyway) have the same creator, and were developed towards a common goal.  That they should share a similarity, regardless of Zero's time of infection, is only natural.  That Sigma should associate it with Zero is only natural.

Quote
I get the feeling something like the ethical testing routine was also performed by Zero's capsule, which required the Sigma Virus.
An excellent thought which may well be key to solving the above dilemma.  I suppose that if the capsule was testing viral reactions, and the virus was meant to rid Zero of his uncontrollable violence, it is possible that unlike X, Zero was woken prematurely.  Who knows, that may be the entire reason Capcom/Inti decided to push Zero's creation so much later than X's.

In this case, one could figure that being woken prematurely interrupted Zero's "final" infection to correct his violent nature, thus the effect would not yet apply, and Sigma's battle is what allowed it to finish.  I suppose that works.

What I'm mainly not buying with the early infection theory, as you presented it, is a particular detail which is not key to the scenario: That is, that interrupting it ties to Zero's allegiance, or lack thereof, to Wily.  That, we do not know, and with Zero being for a fact infected as a result of the Sigma battle, before the virus is known to the world, it is extremely unlikely that the virus was not allowed to run its full course at that time.

While the virus makes Zero more open to instruction, I'm not convinced that the virus provides that instruction.  If it did, it would leave Zero too easy to manipulate by the likes of Sigma.  Given Zero's constant Wily dreams, such as X4, I'm banking that Wily has an independent means of instructing Zero, and that the virus, by quelling Zero's emotions, simply clears his head so that he will listen.  I'm also not convinced that the X1 body was ever intended to fully Awaken in the first place.

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Offline Zan

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2010, 05:17:12 PM »
Quote
Maybe the capsule emanates the virus, affecting anything OUTSIDE it, while remaining safely sealed itself?

The question would then be; what is Wily trying to accomplish? It's out of character to restrict himself to a local region, and we have to question if Wily would retry the virus thing again after Rockman10. He had some sort of change of heart, providing everyone with a cure for the Roboenza.

Quote
The virus wasn't known to the Hunters until X3, so Zero Collection's timeline is clearly jumping around in that regard.

I acknowledge they jumped about with the part where they discovered the capsule was the source. Cain's Journal notes he is still clueless, as does X's question to Zero. Furthermore X Compendium notes the existence of Sigma Virus became known in X3. (What about X2 and Magne Centipede?) And the same summary acknowledges a complete link to Zero was not established until X6.

 But what's not possible to deny is the following:

A subspecies of the terrible computer virus from long ago is generated, and begins driving robots mad locally. The human leadership acknowledges these infected robots as Mavericks, and orders them to be disposed of.
Following through with the disposal of Mavericks, the human leadership decides to have Mavericks exterminated by Reploids, and forms the Maverick Hunters.


They use the Repliroids infected by the virus to introduce the first Irregulars which were disposed off. The Hunters are a follow up of that. Which places this more than 2 years before the incident with Zero.

Quote
Looking at the other side, though, if Zero was already infected during stasis, then why is his fight with Sigma relevant at all?  What is the logic in battle damage allowing re-infection of something Zero was already sleeping in to begin with?

We know Zero has a natural physical immunity to the virus. The virus after infecting him is eliminated before it goes through his body toward his brain. Sleeping in a virus infested capsule without a change of mental state would be quite an exercise of Zero's immunity at work, perhaps even building it up so no other person can misuse his Zero through the use of a virus.

Remember, Zero was built to work with the virus. It's unthinkable that Wily did not test the virus on Zero beforehand, making Zero still the "first infected", even if the infection that turned him to good happened after the first irregulars.

Quote
Zero shouldn't even have the same DNA data in X8 as in X1, given that the Control Chip is the only part to survive that timeframe.  But Zero and the virus (or the strain he was sealed with, anyway) have the same creator, and were developed towards a common goal.  That they should share a similarity, regardless of Zero's time of infection, is only natural.  That Sigma should associate it with Zero is only natural.

I'm beginning to think that Sigma meant that the virus was "made" with Zero's DNA, which would certainly solve that issue.

Quote
What I'm mainly not buying with the early infection theory, as you presented it, is a particular detail which is not key to the scenario: That is, that interrupting it ties to Zero's allegiance, or lack thereof, to Wily.  That, we do not know, and with Zero being for a fact infected as a result of the Sigma battle, before the virus is known to the world, it is extremely unlikely that the virus was not allowed to run its full course at that time.

I think we shouldn't forget that in all other cases, damage counters viral control. Which is something we have to reconcile with this new info.. Damaging Zero returns him to his hunter self, but never facilitates a return to the violent  uncontrollable one. Zero is also still constantly spreading the virus, so it never fully left him and it IS altering his mental state. So, how do we reconcile that with "the virus purifies your body" and the whole process of awakening? The changed state of the Virus by its merger to Sigma strikes me as a vital aspect; was the original virus even set to establish an allegiance? (It does affect the regular Repliroids the same way, despite any changes.)

Quote
While the virus makes Zero more open to instruction, I'm not convinced that the virus provides that instruction.  If it did, it would leave Zero too easy to manipulate by the likes of Sigma.  Given Zero's constant Wily dreams, such as X4, I'm banking that Wily has an independent means of instructing Zero, and that the virus, by quelling Zero's emotions, simply clears his head so that he will listen.  I'm also not convinced that the X1 body was ever intended to fully Awaken in the first place.

If the virus itself does not provide instruction. Then why can Wily not instruct Zero after the initial infection? I personally think the Sigma Virus does provide it, which is the reason for Sagesse getting on Sigma's good side. In X5, the Zero Virus nicely breaks Sigma's control on his Zero, complete with Wily's disembodied voice speaking to Zero as he is awakening.

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2010, 08:47:44 PM »
The question would then be; what is Wily trying to accomplish? It's out of character to restrict himself to a local region, and we have to question if Wily would retry the virus thing again after Rockman10. He had some sort of change of heart, providing everyone with a cure for the Roboenza.
Then how do we get viral Mavericks prior to Zero's being released to begin with?  If we're still holding to that presupposition, then either Wily DID try it again, or some manner of mechanical/program failure is to blame.  It can't be outside tampering if Zero was undisturbed.

Quote
(What about X2 and Magne Centipede?)
That simply means that Sigma (which is only logical) and probably the X-Hunters knew how to use it before the Maverick Hunters knew what it was, that's all.

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I think we shouldn't forget that in all other cases, damage counters viral control. Which is something we have to reconcile with this new info.. Damaging Zero returns him to his hunter self, but never facilitates a return to the violent uncontrollable one.
I'd put forward the theory that the Hunter is an intentional stage of Zero's development.  His Awakening, according to Sigma, was never completed, so he would fall back to the last "healthy" state.

Nevertheless that is a good question.  It's something we were always fuzzy on even before Inti's new timeline, though.  Whether it's an intentional safeguard of some kind, or the Awakening is not taking hold the way it should, is anyone's guess.

Something else we need to reconcile with this is from MMZ's own world: The copy body.  Sooner or later, the non-viral Hunter exists.  Whether that can occur naturally or is the result of Ciel's great grandmother doing some serious re-coding, that's guesswork.  But given Ciel's failure to re-create X, I'm not leaning much towards the latter.

I have a feeling that the Control Chip is key to this.  It is the lone piece of X1 Zero to survive, and judging by Serges is absolutely not replaceable, so whatever "growth" X1 Zero was experiencing had to be centered there.  At the same time, removing Zero's consciousness for research would mean removing that chip, would it not?  And without it, Weil has himself a "bloodthirsty God of Destruction"?

It seems to me that the initial modification to Zero's "Hunter" state was a permanent alteration irregardless of the virus's continued presence; similar to X installing the dash ability into his unarmored state.  Something that, from day one, was part of the plan, just not fully installed before the robot was activated.

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Then why can Wily not instruct Zero after the initial infection?
Who's to say he doesn't?  In X4, X5, and X6, Wily is in some manner speaking to Zero.  X5 is especially curious, telling Zero "what you must do", when the process of Awakening has already started.  The Awakened state may simply be the point at which Zero takes those words as instruction rather than some crazy voice in his head.

As for X2, although how similar a state we're looking at to X5 is rather questionable, it's always possible that Zero is only sticking with Sigma because it's the surest way to confront X.  There may not be anything more to it than that.

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Offline Zan

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2010, 12:33:44 AM »
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some manner of mechanical/program failure is to blame.

Well, last I checked, capsules don't survive 100 year seals that well, being buried beneath a fallen ceiling or outright trashed by unspecified circumstances. At least, with the other two cases we have of those.

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I have a feeling that the Control Chip is key to this.  It is the lone piece of X1 Zero to survive, and judging by Serges is absolutely not replaceable, so whatever "growth" X1 Zero was experiencing had to be centered there.  At the same time, removing Zero's consciousness for research would mean removing that chip, would it not?  And without it, Weil has himself a "bloodthirsty God of Destruction"?

The control chip is simply Zero's brain chip. So yes, we would establish that the hunter Zero is an irreversible change to his personality program, remaining even after becoming a disembodied existence, and after the death of the Sigma Virus. Random Model V zappings, being the only known potential method of temporary reversion to that aggressive state, unless you're a fan of Ira's Madness In Red.... Dr. Vile of course having knowledge of working with the original body, which has the probability of containing the code of Zero's original violent self. Omega being based on that Zero. But Omega is Dr. Vile's slave? Vile succeeded where Wily failed?

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Something that, from day one, was part of the plan

But Inafune himself said "circumstances can change anything." Zero was not planned to stop in this intermediate phase; he was supposed to contain the Sigma Virus and become his true self. So either he was not intended to be infected with the virus just yet, or we go back to blaming a transfer from Zero to Sigma, as Inafune implied. After all, we just established that losing the virus after awakening returns him to hunter state.

To further go with the concept of Capsule>Zero>Sigma; It is instead Sigma that became uniquely one with the virus. None of the previous Irregulars responded to infection in this manner. We must acknowledge that the means with which Sigma were infected cannot compare to those that preceded him.

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The Awakened state may simply be the point at which Zero takes those words as instruction rather than some crazy voice in his head.

But then you're just turning the question around; why isn't Zero accepting Wily's instructions prior to that? The Virus is still needed to force Zero to follow Wily.

Offline Align

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2010, 12:46:54 AM »
The question would then be; what is Wily trying to accomplish? It's out of character to restrict himself to a local region, and we have to question if Wily would retry the virus thing again after Rockman10. He had some sort of change of heart, providing everyone with a cure for the Roboenza.
Well, it infects from reploid to reploid, right? So once it's out there and infected specimens seek out others to fight/infect, it's just a matter of time until every reploid is infected or the world is a desolate wasteland. Job done there I guess.
As for MM10, I could imagine he did that as a test. Or maybe he learned from the mistakes of Saturday morning cartoon villains, who never try a scheme again after it fails from sheer dumb luck on the part of the heroes...

Offline Zan

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2010, 12:59:09 AM »
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As for MM10, I could imagine he did that as a test. Or maybe he learned from the mistakes of Saturday morning cartoon villains, who never try a scheme again after it fails from sheer dumb luck on the part of the heroes...

So, you're pretty much proposing Wily turned into a considerably darker villain? I suppose that's true if we look at both the Eurasia and Nightmare Incidents.

Of course, all of this leads us right back to the question of what the hell Wily's trying to accomplish in the whole X-series...

Offline Align

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2010, 01:03:57 AM »
The Roboenza turned all the ordinary robots in Classic violent, didn't it? So unless he was wholeheartedly expecting to get trounced (whereupon he would cure every robot in the world), it doesn't really seem like the Sigma Virus is that much nastier in effect...

Offline Zan

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2010, 01:15:52 AM »
The main point of note isn't so much the nastiness of the effect, as it is Wily being shown to have remorse for his actions, giving enough cures for everyone, where X-series Wily seemingly doesn't give a damn.

Offline KoiDrake

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2010, 01:37:07 AM »
The Roboenza turned all the ordinary robots in Classic violent, didn't it? So unless he was wholeheartedly expecting to get trounced (whereupon he would cure every robot in the world), it doesn't really seem like the Sigma Virus is that much nastier in effect...
Was that really the effect of the Roboenza? Because Roll didn´t turned into a serial killer because of the virus. The RMs of MM10 were just holders of the cure for the disease, they weren´t infected as far as I can tell.
And Wily showing remorse for his acts was simply for receiving some help during that specific moment, that´ll surely won´t stop him from trying to conquer the world again on the future, so I don´t see why he wouldn´t design the Sigma Virus after this incident.

Offline Align

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2010, 01:48:01 AM »
The main point of note isn't so much the nastiness of the effect, as it is Wily being shown to have remorse for his actions, giving enough cures for everyone, where X-series Wily seemingly doesn't give a damn.
* Justify shrugs
That scene always felt out of character to me - remorse isn't like Wily, and neither is gratitude - so maybe it's just that the idea of the whole Roboenza episode being a test appeals to me..
Was that really the effect of the Roboenza? Because Roll didn´t turned into a serial killer because of the virus. The RMs of MM10 were just holders of the cure for the disease, they weren´t infected as far as I can tell.
It does say that they attack the city in the intro, so... Wouldn't be too far-fetched to say that the Lightbots get extra protection against such attacks, so it affects them less.
Dunno about the RMs, we don't get any dialogue or backstory so for all we know it could be Megaman being an intruder hurrdurring into their lairs that sets them off.

Offline marshmallow man

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2010, 06:07:42 PM »
If we're to avoid the simple conclusion that Capcom and Inti's concept about what the virus is and does have simply changed over the years to the point where the old sources are obsolete outright...

I wrote this sometime last week, so it doesn't apply to all the previous discussion in the thread, but maybe it can further discussion. There's so many cluttered and contradictory ideas that the virus is supposed to satisfy, that I had a difficult time keeping it all orderly in my head. So I used lettering and numbering to try and organize my thoughts better, and also make arguing each single point a little easier.

Observations:
A. Zero was "bad" before Zero was "infected." (ZC Timeline)
B. Zero was armored against the virus. (ZC Timeline, also possibly corresponding to the various references to virus immunity)
C. Zero's DNA contains the virus program. (X6, X8)
D. Zero's power grows from virus exposure. (X5)


Hypothesis:
1. Zero was built to protect his mind against the virus. His DNA program contains information about the virus (perhaps a "core" piece of the virus code itself) to allow his automatic systems to recognize it and disperse it safely without doing harm to his cognitive program. Zero's body redirects the "energy/volition" of the virus and channels it into his power output, temporarily boosting his power.

Observations:
E. Zero's capsule emits the virus. (ZC)
F. Sigma broke through Zero's armoring and Zero got infected. (ZC, visually X4)
G. Zero's personality changed due to virus infection. (ZC)
H. The virus can cause the resurfacing of the latent evil personality within Zero (X5, visually X2).
I. The virus can cause aggressive and violent behavior in normal robots. (ZC, R10? all X series?)

Hypothesis:
2. Zero's damaged armor allowed the Virus to bypass his defenses (H-1) and enter Zero's cognitive program directly, causing...
2a. ...Zero's already heightened levels of negative emotions to overload and crash, resulting in a "blank slate" mode with bottomed-out aggression levels. Further virus infiltration can restore the emotional negativity to higher levels, but his body's defenses were restored and resumed their functions of virus suppression. Zero's defenses can be bypassed by access to his brain directly, or become overwhelmed by more virus than it can safely expel.
2b. ...a rewrite to the thought program by reversing the 'default' output levels for aggression checking, like turning a 0 to a 1. In Zero's unique case, because the aggression levels were already full by default, reversing the code caused the violence to recede. A different strain of virus might need to be tailored specifically to Zero to properly undo this effect, but this different virus would need to get past Zero's defenses to do so.  Zero's defenses can be bypassed by access to his brain directly, or become overwhelmed by more virus than it can safely expel.

Observations:
J. Zero is a virus carrier, and spreads the virus while working as a Hunter. (ZC, MZOCW, X6's Gate)

Hypothesis:
3a. Zero now has active virus infection (H-2a) in his brain which tries to copy itself and spread, but at the same time his body's defenses try to disperse the new virus even as it is made (H-1). At a time when Zero is acting aggressively and exerting high energy levels, like with battling with mavericks, his aggression creates copies of the virus which his body draws upon and expels, releasing virus to the surrounding environment.
3b. Zero's armor protects him from outside infection (H-1) but the infection already within himself (2b) occasionally builds up and leaks out. This can also occur if Zero's armor is damaged and his infected insides are exposed.

Observations:
K. The virus can revive the dead. (Ask Inafune, Sigma in X6)
L. The Sigma Virus is considered a kind of Cyber Elf. (ZC)
M. There exists a Cyber Space dimension where all functions of the physical world are manifested as data. (Z3, Telos booklet)
N*. Under certain conditions, rifts into Cyber Space can be created, causing anomalies. (*Conjecture based on X5's Zero Space, X6's Nightmare stage effects, Z3's Cyber Space Doors, ZX's Area M/N)


Hypothesis:
4. The virus, as a cyber elf, exists as a form of bridge between the dimensions of physical space and Cyber Space. Large concentrations of a powerful virus can (perhaps when combined with other factors) create overlaps where data from Cyber Space is brought into the physical world. The virus can be specifically utilized to draw the volition and memories of a departed soul's data back to the world of the living to be resurrected, either by complete error or by direction from someone with the knowledge and resources to do so.

Observations:
O. Wily had a side project in addition to his Zero project. (PF)
P. An ancient virus from space is the basis for the current Sigma Virus. (ZC)
Q. Rockman 10 contains a "threat from outer space". (R10 subtitle)

Hypothesis:
5a. Wily's side project was his creation of the Roboenza Virus, which he spread from his space station. After R10 Wily gave up on using it and stored his leftover virus in the same facility as Zero, where it eventually mutates and starts to spread through the facility and leak out through Zero's capsule, and incidentally brings Wily's data back from the dead.
5b. Wily's side project was a perfect form of the Roboenza Virus, which he continued to refine until his death for use in a new master plan to utilize it in conjunction with Zero somehow. That the virus brought him back from the dead however was unexpected.
5c. Wily's side project was a way for himself to cheat death, eventually using some form of the Roboenza virus as a centerpiece in his plan. Wily recognized the virus' potential expanded much further than just manipulating robots. He intentionally used the virus to resurrect himself upon his death.

I have a feeling these hardly scratch the surface of all the variant pieces of information that need explaining, and all these hypothesis, especially where they build off each other, may be well off the mark. For instance, I didn't really explore the nature of Zero's body changes and possible effects it could have on Hypothesis 1-3. I just wanted to establish at least one way where it might be possible to put it all together into a complete picture. I'll leave it to you guys to pick it all apart.

Reading through, I like some of the ideas in this thread. The virus being inside Zero's capsule to perform some kind of testing, that Wily just didn't shove Zero into a capsule to get rid of him, but to try and bring him around. And the virus perhaps increasing Zero's emotional coldness, where it seems to make everyone else more hotheaded. And that the "W" could still be something outside of the virus infection. I do think Wily has some manner of communicating with Zero during Zero's subconscious states, but I don't think we've ever seen a "W" appearing on his head in any time other than that one instance. But maybe that's because it's never been as strong again since that time.

Perhaps Sigma gets infected by the capsule, but also receives some of Zero's DNA with the immunity in it during their fight, allowing it to infect him uniquely as well? That might satisfy both seemingly contradictory notions about where Sigma's virus came from, but I have doubts whether it's not supposed to be one or the other.

I'll repeat this from our last supra-force argument, because it sounds like still nobody read it:

Quote from: me
Sigma in the Japanese version of X5 reflects that Awakened Zero was indeed complete, in personality anyway.
しんのすがたにもどれたのに...ゼロよ。ごくろうだったよ。
"Even though your true form had returned... Zero. Thank you for all your effort."

It's possible that Zero was able to increase his power during the course of the battle, but the evil persona was in place since the Shuttle Mission failure. Hence "Awakened" Zero, not "Awakening" or "almost Awakened."

Sigma finding Zero's evil form incomplete is a poor translation thing.

Moving on, the idea that the capsule was spreading the virus but was not what infected Zero really perplexed me. From my memory, there didn't seem to be much in the way of extraordinary about the capsule other than that Zero was sleeping/being constructed in it. I wanted to go back and see if there were any clues that the capsule was connected to the virus or leaking anything. It could all be a wild goose chase, but here's what I found.



Zero's capsule, with him in it. Since we've been told Zero wasn't sealed until after he was built, we might say that this is his version of the diagnostic/testing phase.



Zero waking up from the capsule, both seeming roughly undamaged from what can be told.



Capsule opened, and empty. After Zero left?



Inside the capsule, Wily visible. This is from the intro/dream sequence instead of the ending. Is this directly after Zero's sealing, or before waking up? I never noticed that Zero's legs were colored wrong before.

So I didn't find much in the way of visible damage to the capsule itself. But there are those cords coming from Zero's capsule in the first shot where we can't see what they're connected to.



Could they be connected to this? Some kind of tanks. The one glowing purple doesn't seem to be connected to the wires, but maybe it's just hidden. The symbol on there is like a radiation warning symbol, except with 5 parts instead of 4. The only other place I remember seeing this symbol was in Zero 1's intro stage, but I don't think it's even visible without using an emulator or cheats.



Could this be some sort of hazardous symbol for robots? If related to the virus, does that make that a virus holding tank? Maybe the virus leaks out from these, or from the cable connections? Maybe there are two types of virus being held here?



Looks like the cables might be going to Zero's head... of course, they could be completely unrelated cables.



The only other thing I thought might be significant, the three tube-looking containers on the right side of this picture. They vaguely remind me of the way the three huge containers in Wily's space station in R10 look, although those aren't explicitly said to be virus containers. It looks like there's yellow and purple substances mixing inside them, sort of like the yellow and purple lights on the tanks. It might be nothing, or might be something.

Offline Zan

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2010, 11:53:28 PM »
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Hypothesis:
1. Zero was built to protect his mind against the virus.

This would be the case with his physical immunity, but we also shouldn't forget that the infection affects Zero uniquely, fixing exactly what needed to be fixed. At some point it seems that Wily indeed wanted the virus to affect Zero's mind. Perhaps Zero was awakened prematurely? I can't be stressed enough that the change to good wasn't planned by Wily. This applies to hypothesis 2a and 2b also.

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H. The virus can cause the resurfacing of the latent evil personality within Zero (X5, visually X2).

I wouldn't say resurfacing. With the ZC Timeline, we effectively establish X4 evil Zero as clearly different; X2 and X5 were the first times we saw Zero's true self. Which demands a review of "???"'s remark about Zero having forgotten what he should be doing upon his X5 awakening.

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Zero's body redirects the "energy/volition" of the virus and channels it into his power output, temporarily boosting his power.

You've got to wonder, how does that equate to Zero's "body" being "purified"?

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J. Zero is a virus carrier, and spreads the virus while working as a Hunter.

MMZOCW, both within and outside of Three Keys, says that initially Zero was the only one infected before explaining this matter. Combined with RPM's hearsay, I feel we really need to reconcile this with the ZC Timeline.

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3a, 3b

I like how you tried to explain such specifics as "during missions." I think you might be on to something with the damage to Zero's systems. If a defensive breach not only can promote infection, but further damage can actually promote the virus leaving his systems, the importance of Sigma's knockout punch can be highlighted in relation to Zero's reversion to hunter state in X2 and X5.

Quote
Hypothesis:
4.
Hypothesis:
5

I think going into the matter of Wily's revival might at current be going outside the scope of this topic too much.

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Inside the capsule, Wily visible. This is from the intro/dream sequence instead of the ending. Is this directly after Zero's sealing, or before waking up? I never noticed that Zero's legs were colored wrong before.

I don't think we can even establish at what stage of construction Zero's at in that image. Remember that X was activated without even so much as a lower body. Zero's "dream" excepted, this is one of the few images in which Zero saw Wily himself seemingly alive, which stands in contrast with the "1XX ago" ZX timeline placement.

Quote
Could they be connected to this? Some kind of tanks. The one glowing purple doesn't seem to be connected to the wires, but maybe it's just hidden. The symbol on there is like a radiation warning symbol, except with 5 parts instead of 4. The only other place I remember seeing this symbol was in Zero 1's intro stage, but I don't think it's even visible without using an emulator or cheats.

This is a very nice find. I discovered the five part radiation warning symbol from ZERO1 myself, a few years back, but I never noticed X4 contained the exact same symbol.

The one from ZERO1 is definitely not visible in normal gameplay, just like I don't think the SIGMA is. But both are being drawn by the engine, even if off screen; they're not unused.

Either way, I've always considered this one reason to believe the reasons MMZOCW cite for Zero's sealing were Capcom/Inti's intend from the get go. And now, In combination with the obscure reference to X4, it certainly adds to our resources.


Offline marshmallow man

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2010, 01:47:08 AM »
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I wouldn't say resurfacing. With the ZC Timeline, we effectively establish X4 evil Zero as clearly different; X2 and X5 were the first times we saw Zero's true self. Which demands a review of "???"'s remark about Zero having forgotten what he should be doing upon his X5 awakening.

Indeed, the berserker bloodlust is controlled and focused when he awakens, yet the brutality and remorselessness shines through. It surely can be considered a third stage of personality for Zero like never existed before. The way I was thinking of it, the memories and broad evil aspects of the first personality resurface, but rather than acting as a wholly separate state of consciousness from Hunter Zero and returning exactly as it existed before, the evil persona merges with Zero's current mind to become the Awakened Zero. But certainly there are other ways of looking at it now.

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You've got to wonder, how does that equate to Zero's "body" being "purified"?

In the context of the dialog, Sigma was discussing how Zero received a power boost from the virus. So maybe he's simply referring to the greater power output that the virus makes possible. Beyond that, perhaps the viral strains attuned to the form of Zero's body like the Zero Virus could be designed to make certain "purifying" alterations. That's probably the best I can think of that could fit within the context of my questionable hypothesis.

Quote
MMZOCW, both within and outside of Three Keys, says that initially Zero was the only one infected before explaining this matter. Combined with RPM's hearsay, I feel we really need to reconcile this with the ZC Timeline.

I tried to work around this to meet them halfway, by suggesting that the virus is encoded in Zero's DNA (even though that doesn't quite make him "infected.") The way they laid out the timeline, Zero simply cannot be the first infected. He can be among the first, he can be the earliest infected to still be surviving, but being the actual first first doesn't work.

Unless, we're talking about more than one virus strain coming into play. Certainly Zero isn't the first to be infected with Roboenza (of course nothing prior to R10 should be expected to have taken Roboenza into account), but if they're considering Sigma Virus strains separately, perhaps the strain that leaked out of the capsule wasn't the same as the one they're saying Zero was the first to be infected with. Was Zero infected with something before he awoke, and then after awakening got infected with a different strain? Or did what they consider to be the first true Sigma Virus strain not exist until Zero (and Sigma) was infected with it... but then they went and said that the same strain that leaked out later became known as Sigma Virus, so so much for that. If they had just let those first mavericks be the results of various chip errors or *gasp* free will itself, there wouldn't be a problem here... but alas.

Quote
I don't think we can even establish at what stage of construction Zero's at in that image. Remember that X was activated without even so much as a lower body. Zero's "dream" excepted, this is one of the few images in which Zero saw Wily himself seemingly alive, which stands in contrast with the "1XX ago" ZX timeline placement.

It probably can't be 100% established. My thoughts were that the image of Zero we see being constructed in his X5 ending, with no capsule visible around him, might be his equivalent of X's Day of Sigma bouts consciousness during actual creation. Anything involving a capsule like we see in X4 then would then be after Zero proved to be uncontrollable and was sealed. So maybe this was right after Wily got him into the capsule before he lost total consciousness. Or, if Wily was already brought back by the virus and using some artificial form that resembled his previous one, and if that revived Wily was the one who woke Zero intentionally, it could also be a glimpse Zero had while being revived by Wily's ghost. Of course, just because we can't see a capsule in that X5 image doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't constructed in one, and the status of Wily's physical survival is ever in question, so it's all on shaky ground as it stands.

Offline Zan

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2010, 06:16:13 PM »
Quote
I tried to work around this to meet them halfway, by suggesting that the virus is encoded in Zero's DNA (even though that doesn't quite make him "infected.") The way they laid out the timeline, Zero simply cannot be the first infected. He can be among the first, he can be the earliest infected to still be surviving, but being the actual first first doesn't work.

I figured the "first infected" statement works in a couple of ways. Noting that RPM says Zero was perhaps born with it, and that Wily put it inside of him, and going with the X4/ZERO1 radiation symbol, I'd say it's likely that Wily had indeed tried to infect Zero upon his creation. Either to test the virus' workings on Zero's psyche, to gradually build up his immunity, or to strengthen Zero by use of the immunity. Leaving us with a Zero that does spread the virus, but has yet to be infected to facilitate the change to good. Zero can after all be infected many times, only for his immunity to counter that infection, until the moment that his immunity is breached and the virus reaches his brain.

Quote
(and Sigma) was infected with it...

I still wonder about the details of Sigma's own infection. Can you clarify what Sigma himself said in RockmanX8?

Quote
If they had just let those first mavericks be the results of various chip errors or *gasp* free will itself, there wouldn't be a problem here... but alas.

I think doing that would have conflicted with the established concept of "irregular of one's own accord" presented with Sigma, VAVA and Lumine.

Offline Flame

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2010, 11:50:13 PM »
Haha, can you believe I never actually noticed Wily was in that capsule Zero POV screen? I never even noticed someone was THERE.

real nice finds on those screens.

Actually, When I think of it, during Zero's dream, there are also shown schematics, with graphs and such shown next to them.


If we are to make suggestions that those tanks and cords, and those purple/yellow tubes have something to do with the Virus, and that SOMETHING is being done to Zero with it, (be it testing, building immunity, introducing it into his head, whatever,) Could those graphs have something to do with that as well? (Although it says Irregular Zero... Something that seems out of place... lack of translating irregular aside.)
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Mirby

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Re: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2010, 12:46:16 AM »
Hmm... that is interesting. Considering that the term Irregular (aka Maverick) wasn't made until the X series began, one has to wonder why that term is there...
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