RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => DASH => Topic started by: Sparky on July 19, 2011, 03:21:46 AM
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http://www.capcom-unity.com/devroom/blog/2011/07/18/a_message_from_capcom
Soo, according to this post, the MML3 project is officially discontinued.
Share your sentiments and griefs here.
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Wut? oh well, megaman is officially dead.
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What. [tornado fang]ing what.
Didn't meet WHAT criteria?!
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[tornado fang] CAPCOM OF JAPAN.
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Didn't meet the criteria of being a [tornado fang]ing corporate cash cow, obviously.
This is the last straw. Capcom is never getting any business from me again.
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Oh well I think we all saw this coming.
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If Capcom still wants to make money off MegaMan in general, they can port MM9 and MM10 to Steam.
And let Valve make promo items for TF2.
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Oh well I think we all saw this coming.
We did, but most of us were hoping to every known benevolent deity that MML3 would survive.
Didn't even release the Prototype Edition to see if it would print money. [tornado fang]ing hell.
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We did, but most of us were hoping to every known benevolent deity that MML3 would survive.
Didn't even release the Prototype Edition to see if it would print money. [tornado fang]ing hell.
Well, due to the cash Super Street Fighter produces every year I can see that. I pretty much saw that with all this food nonsense, we were doomed from the start.
Oh well, capcom better have their flame shields up, yer gonna get bombarded man.
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LOL
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So now I have no reason to get a 3DS.
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Oh well, capcom better have their flame shields up, yer gonna get bombarded man.
Like hell. They're too busy laughing behind their piles of money. They don't care. Much like Square Enix, but even they seem to acknowledge what their fans want.
Atlus and Nintendo on the other hand, no matter what people may think of them, still know how to deliver fresh experiences that their fans WANT.
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I got back online as soon as I found out.
Guys, I am so [hard knuckle]ing sorry. I don't particularly care for Legends for reasons I've stated a long, long time ago, but I'm not going to hate on it when other people enjoy it. I do...or did...understand the merit of it, and I was actually kind of looking forward to Barret's playstyle. Not to mention it would have been a positive step IP-wise for Megaman.
But this. This feels like Capcom died, today. Like, they've killed Megaman.
Most of you probably hate me by now, some most of you don't even know me, but I am here to help you guys vent (even at me). Let's all just ask and hope and wonder for what the future holds. Because as a Megaman Classic/X/BN nut, I've gotta say, this is some ****, right here.
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Despite me not having as much interest in the DASH subseries as I do with the original and X series, I would have probably considered getting this one.
But after the departure of Keiji, it was almost obvious this project would go dead, after we saw what happened to Universe. -AC
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But after the departure of Keiji, it was almost obvious this project would go dead, after we saw what happened to Universe. -AC
They say it has nothing to do with him leaving, but I have a very hard time believing that.
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Like hell. They're too busy laughing behind their piles of money. They don't care. Much like Square Enix, but even they seem to acknowledge what their fans want.
Atlus and Nintendo on the other hand, no matter what people may think of them, still know how to deliver fresh experiences that their fans WANT.
Don't forget NIS, too. Their games were decent, albiet hard (and sometimes even weird, but yet they get away with comedy gold).
I'd hate to say it though, but good going capcom, good going. Enjoy the shitstorm that's heading your direction.
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Despite me not having as much interest in the DASH subseries as I do with the original and X series, I would have probably considered getting this one.
But after the departure of Keiji, it was almost obvious this project would go dead, after we saw what happened to Universe. -AC
Sad thing is, this was an originally-developed sequel to debut on new technology. It could have gotten the Megaman IP away from the largely unmarketable "little boy in spandex" image of the past and maybe ushered the IP into some sort of middle ground between old-school sensibility and modern design.
Not that there's anything wrong with the Classic MM design schema in my mind, but you can look at the dropping sales numbers and reactions to games and know that MM9 and MM10 were largely successful because of old series veterans, not new or current markets.
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I feel that a little part of me died on the inside with the cancellation. I hope that Capcom is aware that they blew any chances of putting the Mega Man games back into the mainstream spotlight.
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I'm pissed, mainly because I really enjoyed legends, I was psyched for the game.
Oh well, capcom just lost a customer. Got stuck in the "If its new or somewhat different from the norm then don't greenlight" mindset they seem to be known for lately.
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Though you have to admit, Legends 3 being canceled did wonders for RPM.
The place was pretty much dead til now.
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Yeah, because the damn thing actually being released would've had no impact whatsoever.
yeesh.
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Franchise has been dead since 2004, everyone just move on.
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Franchise has been dead since 2004, everyone just move on.
What even came out in 04 anyway?
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X8
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Well.. ZX came out in 06...
But like Legends, didnt go anywhere and was only riding on the Zero series success. (the series for which they continually pump out remixes for long after it ended)
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Oh yeah..they feared they would lose some money...poor poor Capcom. I bet the release of Legends 3 would make you go bankrupt...asses
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sales on pretty much every megaman game in the past decade haven't been high enough for capcom's standards to begin with. otherwise you kids would have more psp remakes and shovelware on xbla/psn/wii.
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Oh well I think we all saw this coming.
I had some hope left, but I'm really nit all that surprised.
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x cancellation
o timing of cancellation
I had hoped they'd cancel it at least after they'd released the prototype and its sales sucked. Then we could at least say: Oh well, we tried our best.
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aside/ You know, as unenthused with the story as I was, and despite the fact it'd likely only see release in Korea, I still want Rockman Online to make it. If at least one MM project saw the light of day, that would be great. But no, they haven't updated in a while... /aside
Isn't Capcom going to be at Comic Con this year? To whoever's going there, please ask them (politely) if they know why MML3 was canceled. Maybe they will, maybe they won't--maybe we'll just get more meaningless PR bullshit. But it'll be worth a try.
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I think the worst part is that they didn't even give the Prototype a chance.
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I think the worst part is that they didn't even give the Prototype a chance.
If there even was one. After all, you cant eny the fact that it wasnt present when it should have been at what was it, E3? And now the rumor is they never intended to make it, but it was all just to ell the 3DS?
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See my post in the Prototype topic.
We were trolled. Rather successfully, might I add.
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We were. When you "delay" something to "continue to make improvements", while in reality you are "deciding whether or not we can still release it", you can't really call it anything but trolling.
Years down the road, I expect the Prototype will be leaked over the internet, and my 3DS will have its connection settings deleted so that I may safely hack it.
sales...remakes and shovelware
Gee, I wonder why the sales sucked...
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http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/itdlp/megaman_legends_3_cancelled/c26ind3
Reposted from the Prototype thread. So apparently MML3 just wasn't shaping up to be a fun game...
IT WAS ONLY 25% DONE. YOU SERIOUSLY COULDN'T USE THE REST OF YOUR DEVELOPMENT TIME TO FIX THAT?!
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So did he provide proof that he was a tester or whatever in the rest of that comments page or is "I'm totally a tester and it was bland and boring" all he says?
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No proof.
But if that does turn out to be the real reason...
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That would only mean that people didn't even had the creative energies to imagine up the rest of the game, even with the input of the fans. In other words...
Capcom has lost its touch, period, and even some of the people in Capcom know it, and can't do a damn thing about it.
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Hey, guess what?
http://twitter.com/#!/CapcomEuro
@[ some guy] iit's a shame the fans didn't want to get more involved :-( if we saw there was an audience for MML3 people might change minds
That's right. They blamed us for "not wanting to get more involved".
Except I'm fairly certain we were.
Didn't even give us the goddamn Prototype. Didn't even wait for 3DS sales to pick up. Just canned everything and said it was all our fault.
...I'm feel awkward posting this after the news thread got locked, but Jesus. Even taking into account the comparatively low Servbot numbers, the backlash should've told them something.
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Holy [parasitic bomb], so Capcom has the balls to spout that crap huh?
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THe game wasn't western enough. That's the reason.
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Anyway, i don't see the point in commenting in topics like these UNLESS there's official updates on why Capcom canned it. Because we're still left in the dark about that. Arguing and bitching won't change anything, everything has pretty much been said already. (Not saying to lock this one too) just don't spam it up with Capcom hate like the previous ones, guys.
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Holy [parasitic bomb], so Capcom has the balls to spout that crap huh?
remember how Other M was a completely terrible game in every possible way you could ruin a metroid game and how it sold terribly? Sakamoto blamed every single metroid fan for not realizing his greatness or some other bullshit along those lines.
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Other M <3
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remember how Other M was a completely terrible game in every possible way you could ruin a metroid game and how it sold terribly? Sakamoto blamed every single metroid fan for not realizing his greatness or some other bullshit along those lines.
Except that Other M was, quality-wise, Fusion in 3D. The "ruined forever" complaints were from people looking for any excuse they could find to call whatever Team Ninja does sexist, despite the fact that Samus shows considerably more skin and allows maternal instincts to damn near doom the galaxy when Nintendo's at the wheel.
It's pretty hard to not call bullshit on that one.
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Except Fusion was actually fun to play, didn't completely retcon out everything that happened in the prime trilogy, didn't turn samus into a crying baby at the sight of that one guy she kills every other thursday, make her suit run on magical girl bullshit, or have an old japanese man cramming every possible japanese female stereotype he can onto her.
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Yeah, I guess that didn't bug me
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Random thought;
Remember the story of Dead Rising? It initially got rejected, and the dev team started working on it in secret in their own time. Breaking the rules so to speak. Eventually resubmit it for approval, and hope for the best. Think that could happen here?
I know I'm grasping at straws, but there really aren't many other options...
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Wasnt that the one where Inafune went over the allotted prototype budget, to force Capcom to greenlight it or something?
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Yes. And that could have gotten people laid off if the game did not sell well. Okay people, I know I may not get the response I'm looking for but I'm going to ask it anyway. Is the few hours of entertainment, Megaman therioes, and buster shooting that much more important to you than peoples jobs?
I said it before and I'll say it again. Megaman doesn't carry enough marketing weight to sell enough copies and at the very least break even with the costs of making a game for the 3ds. The 3ds alone is a risky business venture because of how much that tech costs and not too many people have bought them. (Yes, I understand that a lot of people bought them, however they don't fly off shelves and print money) For them to do what you want, they need to put their business AND their employees at risk so YOU can have a few hours of entertainment and HOPE that people buy at least 2 million copies of the game to break even with the costs of production, pr, and development. Look, I get that you guys love Megaman and thats fine and all. But you love him that much to put a company at risk? Jobs at risk?
Honestly, none of us have an actual right to be fuming mad at the news. None of us have put money into development of the game, so none of us have the say in what makes it to the market. Also: I will say this. The cancelation of this game has nothing to do with "Megaman isn't western enough." It simply will not sell very well. I mean, the reason Psychonauts (The awesome game that it was) didn't see a sequel was because it did not sell well. 50: Cent Bulletproof sold well. So from a marketing standpoint it would be too risky for them to make another one. Honestly guys. Do you think it's THAT worth it?
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None of us have put money into development of the game
Time is money, and we put a lot of time into it as a fan base. You know, dev room and all.
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So you can justify the game cancellation, but can you justify then doing it before releasing an already mostly finished prototype version to gauge popularity?
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We are fans. Fan is short for "fanatic". since when are fanatics known for rational, logical thinking towards the object of their fanaticism?
its not just any reason we are mad. Its because of the way it was cancelled, how cappy handled it. They are afraid it wont sell? why not release the prototype to SEE if it will? That was the whole point!
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It should have been for the PSP but the game wouldn't have soldl well anyway. Don't you find weird that the Devroom had all these contests, design opinions and stuff? Capcom wouldn't need the Devroom if they actually intended to make Legends 3 (which apparently, wasn't the case) The whole thing was just too good to be true.
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The deal was that it was for the fans, by the fans. The fans who had been waiting a decade for this one special game.
That was Inafune's intent.
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The point of the matter is the Prototype was supposed to judge how many people were actually interested in Legends to begin with. Not to mention that the Nintendo eShop uses a "5-star" rating system, so if the feedback was mostly 5 stars as opposed to 3 or 2, all the more reason to get serious and make the full game. I don't think that would have been an issue. Perhaps Capcom would still worry that somehow, the game might flop badly if the real game was released. Despite if the Prototype received positive feedback. Which would hardly be an excuse, because that's flat out going back on their word.
Either way, Capcom should just come clean and be honest on this cancellation. That's what everyone's listening out for. CapcomEURO's twitter doesn't make them seem professional either. It's nice to know that some staff from CoA understand what the fans are going through.
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Sadly, the fandom doesn't matter if the product doesn't have commercial value.
EDIT: Forget about CoE, they don't know what they're doing.
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Yes. And that could have gotten people laid off if the game did not sell well. Okay people, I know I may not get the response I'm looking for but I'm going to ask it anyway. Is the few hours of entertainment, Megaman therioes, and buster shooting that much more important to you than peoples jobs?
I said it before and I'll say it again. Megaman doesn't carry enough marketing weight to sell enough copies and at the very least break even with the costs of making a game for the 3ds. The 3ds alone is a risky business venture because of how much that tech costs and not too many people have bought them. (Yes, I understand that a lot of people bought them, however they don't fly off shelves and print money) For them to do what you want, they need to put their business AND their employees at risk so YOU can have a few hours of entertainment and HOPE that people buy at least 2 million copies of the game to break even with the costs of production, pr, and development. Look, I get that you guys love Megaman and thats fine and all. But you love him that much to put a company at risk? Jobs at risk?
Honestly, none of us have an actual right to be fuming mad at the news. None of us have put money into development of the game, so none of us have the say in what makes it to the market. Also: I will say this. The cancelation of this game has nothing to do with "Megaman isn't western enough." It simply will not sell very well. I mean, the reason Psychonauts (The awesome game that it was) didn't see a sequel was because it did not sell well. 50: Cent Bulletproof sold well. So from a marketing standpoint it would be too risky for them to make another one. Honestly guys. Do you think it's THAT worth it?
Honestly, I don't believe people's issue with this is the just the cancellation itself. Like I said before in the other thread, it's one thing to just be lied to or not even lie but just come to a financial decision. If they were just say "We have plans to make a new MegaMan Legends 3 game" and then after this long cancel it because of marketing & sales issues, people would be upset, but not on this level. Why I think people are so upset is that they did everything in their power to pump this game up and get fans hopes up, with contests, votes, the Devroom, and so on. Then, they say stuff like "Sales of the Prototype will determine if we make this game" which in itself is a dick move especially since they were going to charge for it. But people still went along with that and then even before the demo came out, they just outright cancel the game.
Like you said, Legends 3 was a financial question mark since its announcement, cause personally I didn't believe it would sell that well either. In regards to that, I have little problem with it being canceled, cause it's the same reason why I'll most likely never see a Power Stone 3. However, the way Capcom went about this whole thing is douchebaggery on a scale I don't think I've ever seen from a company. Like I said in the other thread, the best equivalent I can think of is if for 8 months Nintendo continued the Smash Bros Dojo info dump, and then just simply cancel the game. (I'm not comparing Smash Bros sales to Legends sales. Just using an example.)
As for putting the company at "financial risk" for making this game, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one. One bad or poor selling game will not cripple a company, especially a company that just announced an Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 game for $40 after people literally just spend $60 on the previous game not even that long ago. They know everyone who played the first is buying the second, and probably more than that as well. Capcom clearly has their cash cow games ready, so taking a risk on Legends 3 would not have cost them all that much. Plus, when you douchebaggily [acid burst] off a fanbase like this enough to get them to want to boycott your company, you run the risk of people losing their jobs anyway (I doubt people will actually boycott, but just saying is all).
For me, I can understand the cancellation. However, the way they went about the whole thing was downright sinister. To get fans hopes up like that and then crush them over a financially questionable game is really an awful business tactic, especially when you hear all the stuff coming out about how they never had plans to make it, or when you now hear CapcomEuro saying that the fans were at fault for it not being made. When you treat your loyal, sometimes overly loyal, fanbase in this manner, that's when you get them wanting people to lose their jobs. People absolutely have a right to be "fuming mad" over the way they were treated throughout this whole thing. They don't have a right to personally attack Capcom's servers or anything stupid like that. However, they do have a right to voice their opinion though and let Capcom know that they do not like to be treated in this manner, and whether that's by sending them e-mails, posting on Capcom Unity, boycotting their games, sending lots of snail mail letters, or what have you, people still do have that right. If anything, judging by how many gamers are actually pissed by this, and not just the people on the MM forums and such, this game possibly had a bigger market than Capcom realized.
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We are fans. Fan is short for "fanatic". since when are fanatics known for rational, logical thinking towards the object of their fanaticism?
its not just any reason we are mad. Its because of the way it was cancelled, how cappy handled it. They are afraid it wont sell? why not release the prototype to SEE if it will? That was the whole point!
You know. This made the most sense. The very honesty of it is pretty solid and kinda hit home, Flame. The "Fanatic" point mainly. So I may understand, the reaction is simply based off of the fixaction towards Megaman? You know... That's good and terrible at the same time. Good because--well, you admitted that was the case and gave a good reason for it. Terrible due to the people who are so big of fanatics to start putting death threats on live streams. And I do agree, the PR attempt sucked. Big time. So, lemme see if I can get this right. If Capcom would have said something either along the lines of : "We do not believe that attempting to bring Megaman Legends to a green light would make sufficient profit for us, and it's too risky." Or "We had predicted there would be more users than the number we received in the Dev rooms... So based on those numbers we can't justify a sequel." That wouldn't have pissed fans off?
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So, lemme see if I can get this right. If Capcom would have said something either along the lines of : "We do not believe that attempting to bring Megaman Legends to a green light would make sufficient profit for us, and it's too risky." Or "We had predicted there would be more users than the number we received in the Dev rooms... So based on those numbers we can't justify a sequel." That wouldn't have pissed fans off?
No, that still would have pissed people off immensely because of the all the effort they put into pumping the game up like they did and getting everyone's hopes up. Plus, using Devroom numbers to justify sales is extremely poor business planning.
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No, that still would have pissed people off immensely because of the all the effort they put into pumping the game up like they did and getting everyone's hopes up. Plus, using Devroom numbers to justify sales is extremely poor business planning.
So the only way Capcom could have done things right would to have never have announced the game at all / never developing the Devroom / just stop talking about the project. But also, as we are on the subject of getting ones hopes up, do you think that some (I said SOME not all) of it could be on the individual? Possibly by overhyping the game itself simply because it was coming out, rather than being slight carefull....and NOT buying a 3ds just because of this game maybe coming out? Doesn't that aspect of fault lay on the consumer?
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Are we now being nerdy about being nerds?
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So the only way Capcom could have done things right would to have never have announced the game at all / never developing the Devroom / just stop talking about the project. But also, as we are on the subject of getting ones hopes up, do you think that some (I said SOME not all) of it could be on the individual? Possibly by overhyping the game itself simply because it was coming out, rather than being slight carefull....and NOT buying a 3ds just because of this game maybe coming out? Doesn't that aspect of fault lay on the consumer?
Not at all. You do it like most game companies do, as in announce that a game is being made then make people wait in anticipation and maybe give them a little bit here and there if they need to, like a trailer and what not. This game literally did everything in its power to get fans involved in its creation, which is what got people's hopes up. The whole "We're definitely making this and you're going to help!" mantra that was announced at the NYCC last year. People not buying a 3DS having to do with sales is also not the fault of the consumer regarding the release of this game, cause for some, many were waiting for a good reason to buy the 3DS (some were even waiting for this game to come out). I mean, the original DS took a good 6 months to a year or longer before it became the powerhouse seller that it was.
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"We do not believe that attempting to bring Megaman Legends to a green light would make sufficient profit for us, and it's too risky." Or "We had predicted there would be more users than the number we received in the Dev rooms... So based on those numbers we can't justify a sequel." That wouldn't have pissed fans off?
1 - Let's use Okami for an example. During the time of its release, it sold really poorly. So poorly that for a while, Capcom outright said they had no future plans for the franchise. Despite saying that, they re-released it for the Wii a while later and the sales still weren't quite up to snuff. Then a "sequel" for the game was planned. Okamiden. There were some struggles with whether or not they should release it do to the poor sales of the previous games, but Eshiro (producer) pushed to have it see the light of day. Eventually seeing it's release in 2010. So tell me: What makes this scenario any different? Okami sold poorly, yet Capcom re-released it AND made a sequel to top it off. There is absolutely no excuse to why Legends 3 couldn't have seen release. It wouldn't have crippled them.
As for the, "We had predicted there would be more users than the number we received in the Dev rooms... So based on those numbers we can't justify a sequel", the Dev room wasn't even half the people who were interested in the game. Sure they were the ones who actually participated, but if you Google searched around for blogs or newsites that dicussed about the Legends sequel, about 90% were hyped for it. Going by the "number of people in the Dev room" is an extremely rash and poor excuse.
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That's a general thing that more people that are enthusiasts need to keep in mind and developers keep as commandments PB - the game(s) sell the system. People can't look at a console and think because X many people don't own it, it won't make a profit. The game is the impetus for the purchase of the console and stopping out before you believe in your brand power citing "it's not gonna work" as your explanation really reeks of not planning this out or not believing in your product enough. The latter is especially bad in this situation since the consumers were all people who had supported the development in this game via the continued thriving input in both dev rooms western and eastern.
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Yeah, the fact that every time Capcom comes out with a new excuse we find a way to prove it wrong says something.
This is definitely out of spite.
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What makes this scenario any different? Okami sold poorly, yet Capcom re-released it AND made a sequel to top it off. There is absolutely no excuse to why Legends 3 couldn't have seen release. It wouldn't have crippled them.
The PS2, Wii and DS were all successful consoles, the 3DS is new and the sales are not looking good either. Capcom is just not confident of this handheld.
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Yeah, the fact that every time Capcom comes out with a new excuse we find a way to prove it wrong says something.
This is definitely out of spite.
Okay, lets not go crazy. There's no way this is out of spite. It's mainly a marketing decision, like Ramzal and I said.
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Okay, my bad. Regardless, I'm not sure if you've seen this (http://ds.ign.com/articles/118/1183024p1.html) yet.
Inafune speaks about the cancellation.
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With how far along they were in production, as proven by videos and screens, there is no financial loss from releasing what they had thus far for the public to experience in the form of prototype. Pulling the plug without that would only be making the time and effort that was put into it by fan and staff alike go to complete and utter waste.
For that very reason I must ask: why was "the rocket" not completed?
From both the point of view of story and PR, getting Rock from Heaven would be pivotal. Both the fans and Capcom would have taken one slight but ever so important step forward. To end the prototype with a long overdue reunion while saying that Rock, uncertain of the future, would surely continue to fight against the Elder Gods for the sake of everyone; that would not just be any message, but a message of heart. The hopes and dreams of everyone in love with the characters and setting, wrapped together in the prototype, even if the final game may never come to pass.
"That", is the very least they could have done, could have allowed to come into existence.
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So the only way Capcom could have done things right would to have never have announced the game at all / never developing the Devroom / just stop talking about the project. But also, as we are on the subject of getting ones hopes up, do you think that some (I said SOME not all) of it could be on the individual? Possibly by overhyping the game itself simply because it was coming out, rather than being slight carefull....and NOT buying a 3ds just because of this game maybe coming out? Doesn't that aspect of fault lay on the consumer?
The only way this could have worked was
A. never give the go-ahead to make a damn prototype,
or
B. release the prototype and say "the sales of the prototype were insufficient".
would B have still made people mad? You bet. But not as mad as this. Why? because we at least got to SEE the prototype, and part of the hard work the dev team and the fans put in. theres a testament left to what could have been, and we would have latched onto it and never let go.
But this..? this is probably the MOST douchebag move ANY game company has EVER made, in Gaming history.
EDIT: also, what Zan said.
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I haven't been around this board for months. Other responsibilities pulled me in other directions, and eventually this just became an outlet to vent nerd rage, often when I was already frustrated at something else. My apology. I don't expect anyone has missed me too much anyway.
Old habits die hard, so I'm driven to say this to you, the only ones I think might understand. I think I've outgrown Mega Man. I've come to accept that Mega Man will not become what I want it to be, and that there are better things I can be doing with my time than spending time debating its loose fiction and encouraging hopes that lead so often to disappointment. That is not a slight on any of you who still wish to do such things. If it can still be just as fun for you as it once was for me, more power to you.
Capcom's latest antics with pulling out of both Legends 3 and Universe is making walking away all the easier. I admit I didn't participate in the Devroom. I've been too busy to, and I don't have the talent to enter all their art contests to begin with. I still thought it was a great effort on Capcom's part, but I somehow just couldn't quite believe it. Sure enough, my doubts are fulfilled. I went to Capcom-Unity today to see the mess that has become of this franchise. Ironically, you can still join the Devroom and get a Servbot number, even after the project is pronounced dead. I am number 4245. Some good that does.
Mega Man will limp on, in a few months to a year we'll have new Mega Man game announcements. Fan rage will blow over and life will go on. If you guys stick around that long, I'm sure it'll come. But me, I just don't care anymore.
Farewell, old friends.
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The 3ds alone is a risky business venture because of how much that tech costs and not too many people have bought them.
Software sells hardware, not the other way around. The 3DS's lackluster market penetration can be attributed to many things, but not the least of which is a lackluster software lineup. Cancelling compelling software in response to that will only make the situation worse.
This is why Nintendo holding back their software in response to shovelware-dev-bitchery doesn't work.
Further, the notion of Capcom being unwilling to develop for a system that is not yet printing money is a COMPLETE AND TOTAL contradiction of their earlier message with regards to the development of Legends 3 and their target audience, the very reason they chose the 3DS in the first place. Legends 3 was meant to target the "early adopter" in the hopes of avoiding getting buried among the masses of mediocre games sharing shelf space, as Wii games like Zack & Wiki were. It was to be presented early so as to stand out among the comparatively thin competition and spread word among the more discerning early audience. In that regard, Capcom should be thanking their damn lucky stars that Excitebike 3D is STILL their only competition. If they refuse to release until the market explodes to DS-Lite level proportions, they are completely abandoning the very goal they originally set.
Except Fusion was actually fun to play, didn't completely retcon out everything that happened in the prime trilogy, didn't turn samus into a crying baby at the sight of that one guy she kills every other thursday, make her suit run on magical girl bullshit, or have an old japanese man cramming every possible japanese female stereotype he can onto her.
Pardon my lazyass response, but this is a largely irrelevant tangent that has already been discussed to hell and back in your absence:
I'll give you that Other M badly handles the background of the Space Pirates, although Prime 3 is more key in making sense of Other M's take on it than you might think. The rest, I deny. I doubt you care, but if you want to know why, we can continue elsewhere.
With how far along they were in production, as proven by videos and screens, there is no financial loss from releasing what they had thus far for the public to experience in the form of prototype. Pulling the plug without that would only be making the time and effort that was put into it by fan and staff alike go to complete and utter waste.
For that very reason I must ask: why was "the rocket" not completed?
From both the point of view of story and PR, getting Rock from Heaven would be pivotal. Both the fans and Capcom would have taken one slight but ever so important step forward. To end the prototype with a long overdue reunion while saying that Rock, uncertain of the future, would surely continue to fight against the Elder Gods for the sake of everyone; that would not just be any message, but a message of heart. The hopes and dreams of everyone in love with the characters and setting, wrapped together in the prototype, even if the final game may never come to pass.
"That", is the very least they could have done, could have allowed to come into existence.
I would imagine there are is some degree of labor and fees applied to releasing an eShop purchase, but it certainly ought to be negligible compared to how much they've invested in the Prototype already.
I don't see the Prototype getting Trigger back, that's a bit too pivotal for a "prologue". I'd imagine Barrett was helping Roll's progress on the rocket and that would be that. Trigger could be a post-game bonus in the Prototype, though.
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I don't see the Prototype getting Trigger back, that's a bit too pivotal for a "prologue". I'd imagine Barrett was helping Roll's progress on the rocket and that would be that.
Well, no matter how far the completion of the rocket could have gone. The same sentiments could have been shared nonetheless.
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(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1347/wilykilledl3.png)
Wily confirmed as cause for Legends 3 cancellation
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Sorry, I can't hate Wily.
I don't hate Capcom either
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Think about it. It all makes sense now.
Wily is the CEO of Capcom.
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What an evil Boat Salesman.
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In light of Mega Man Legends 3's cancellation, I thought I'd bring out a satirical video I made six months ago for kicks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0UtY44VmBk&feature=player_embedded#t=14s
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I haven't been around this board for months. Other responsibilities pulled me in other directions, and eventually this just became an outlet to vent nerd rage, often when I was already frustrated at something else. My apology. I don't expect anyone has missed me too much anyway.
Old habits die hard, so I'm driven to say this to you, the only ones I think might understand. I think I've outgrown Mega Man. I've come to accept that Mega Man will not become what I want it to be, and that there are better things I can be doing with my time than spending time debating its loose fiction and encouraging hopes that lead so often to disappointment. That is not a slight on any of you who still wish to do such things. If it can still be just as fun for you as it once was for me, more power to you.
Capcom's latest antics with pulling out of both Legends 3 and Universe is making walking away all the easier. I admit I didn't participate in the Devroom. I've been too busy to, and I don't have the talent to enter all their art contests to begin with. I still thought it was a great effort on Capcom's part, but I somehow just couldn't quite believe it. Sure enough, my doubts are fulfilled. I went to Capcom-Unity today to see the mess that has become of this franchise. Ironically, you can still join the Devroom and get a Servbot number, even after the project is pronounced dead. I am number 4245. Some good that does.
Mega Man will limp on, in a few months to a year we'll have new Mega Man game announcements. Fan rage will blow over and life will go on. If you guys stick around that long, I'm sure it'll come. But me, I just don't care anymore.
Farewell, old friends.
Well I always enjoyed reading your debates and such, so farewell to you MM!
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Thought this was somewhat touching.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHdUWSp5pks[/youtube]
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Do you guys know Cyberconnect2?
The guys behind Asura's Wrath and those cel-shaded naruto fighting games?
Well,
http://www.siliconera.com/2011/07/22/cyberconnect2s-ceo-would-be-happy-to-work-on-mega-man-legends-3/
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Saw that earlier today. *o* I would LOVE it if they got the rights to do it! I'm a big fan of the .hack series! owo
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never played any of their games, but hey, if they want to give it a shot, its worth a shot.
What i love most about this is how even OTHER gaming companies are reacting to it. the Skullgirls devs took to the whiteboard to express their dissatisfaction, (and even took a swipe at capcom) and now these guys are like "hey, we can make it if they dont want to..."
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The only games i've played by them were the Naruto fighting games. So i can't actually compare those to a free-roaming adventure game like Legends. I'd expect it to be more melee based than what we've seen in the Legends 3 footage.
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Do you guys know Cyberconnect2?
The guys behind Asura's Wrath and those cel-shaded naruto fighting games?
Well,
http://www.siliconera.com/2011/07/22/cyberconnect2s-ceo-would-be-happy-to-work-on-mega-man-legends-3/
You beat to it, could there still be hope for Legends?
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Hope
rides alone dies last
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pessimist coming through
honestly i don't know that cyberconnect2 would pick this up considering that the megaman franchise has [acid burst] poor income potential, but it would be pretty snazzy if they did work on it. but still you can't bank on nostalgia alone in this business.
we've already watched the franchise decay into mediocrity, why get upset over this?
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Well obviously if the CEO is offering to make it, they want to. Guy seems to be a fan himself.
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true, true.
i just worry about the "but it won't make enough money!" issue that capcom seemed to have. maybe they wouldn't mind overlooking that.
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They see the fan momentum behind the whole thing, and they're more hopeful. To me, they don't even see it as a risk; they know it's going to be a hit with the fans. I can't predict how it would sell, but if they eventually did release Legends 3... I hope the sales numbers open up Capcom's eyes.
And I totally think the project would've lasted longer with Inafune on board. He would've pushed to have the prototype out.
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CyberConnect2 also made Tail Concerto and Solatorobo, both being very good and worthy substitutes to the Mega Man Legends series~ <3
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CyberConnect2 also made Tail Concerto and Solatorobo, both being very good and worthy substitutes to the Mega Man Legends series~ <3
I've had my eye on Solatorobo. I hope they bring to the US.
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And I totally think the project would've lasted longer with Inafune on board. He would've pushed to have the prototype out.
this i definitely agree with. in fact i don't have a source on this but i think he's been quoted to want to work on a legends 3 before he retired. he didn't quite get what he bargained for there.
i don't know, maybe i'm just a little too pessimistic about the whole thing. it just seems like an awful lot of new energy to inject into such an old, old franchise. it just feels like it's way too late to even be thinking about this in my opinion.
but it's not over until it's over, so we'll see.
CyberConnect2 also made Solatorobo, a very good and worthy substitute to the Mega Man Legends series~ <3
see, i'm probably one of the only people here who'd never even heard of cyberconnect2 or any of these games they've put out until this thread. from what i saw on the wiki this solatorobo thing does look pretty nifty though.
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I had only heard of Asura's Wrath, but I didnt know anyone but Capcom was involved there.
That said, in response tho the money overlooking thing, think about it this way. Capcom is under heavy fire right now for what a large part of the gaming community calls "the biggest douchebag move ever". If these guys came out and said "hey, we'll make the game for you, Capcom!" and managed to do so, Imagine how people would latch onto them? they would gain a considerable amount of fans who may not have previously heard of them or given them much mind, but because they "did what Capcom didnt", the fanbase would ADORE them, and probably follow them or try their other games.
Think about it. Its good marketing, "We made the game Capcom wouldnt make for you" kind of marketing.
that said, Megaman network had this image along with the Cyberconnect announcement and I just found it pretty funny.
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7903/volnuttswrath.jpg)
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Not to mention that both Tail Concerto and Solatorobo has that adorable kiddy humor that you just can't say no to. And the games themselves are like Mega Man Legends because you enter dungeons, collect treasures and fight against bad guys and trying to prevent a weapon of mass destruction from ancient times from destroying the world. The soothing music and character design really makes the games stand out a lot with other games that are similar. :cookie:
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Not to mention that both Tail Concerto and Solatorobo has that adorable kiddy humor that you just can't say no to. And the games themselves are like Mega Man Legends because you enter dungeons, collect treasures and fight against bad guys and trying to prevent a weapon of mass destruction from ancient times from destroying the world. The soothing music and character design really makes the games stand out a lot with other games that are similar. :cookie:
wow. that just about describes L1, doesnt it. lol
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Surprisingly too well
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OK OK, there's one more similar thing in Solatorobo too, but I don't want to ruin the fun so.... (spoiler)
[spoiler]There's a shower scene with Elh, the felineko that joins your group early on, and Red Savarin finds out that she is a girl, when she was pretending to be a boy beforehand. And of course Red gets a slap in the face. XD[/spoiler]
I was able to beat the game last year, but we didn't update the Gaming thread so much, but I will do that soon~
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well.... it`s been a while since my last post,
but this is necessary......
so..... they killed rd3...for some reason...that was expected...think about it, not only capcom.....in the last time game companys are fueled only for monetary interest
for example... after 12 years duke nukem forever was released...but as a game... it was just another fps....
games today are only graphics it seem that developers don`t care no more for real quality
it`s a sahme don`t you think?
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from what I saw, Duke Nukem only took a few things from other FPS, (and even made fun of them) but then again, thats the thing with duke, he copies other stuff. usually movies.
But at least it came OUT. after so many years, it finally came out.
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well.... it`s been a while since my last post,
but this is necessary......
so..... they killed rd3...for some reason...that was expected...think about it, not only capcom.....in the last time game companys are fueled only for monetary interest
for example... after 12 years duke nukem forever was released...but as a game... it was just another fps....
games today are only graphics it seem that developers don`t care no more for real quality
it`s a sahme don`t you think?
It's always how the industry operated; ripoffs and gimmicks to make a quick buck. Sega Genesis dominated the NES because it had 16-bit graphics, but the NES probably has one of the best gaming libraries regardless. And after Super Mario Bros. 3, everyone tried to make a game like it.
Again there was a lot (if not the same amount) of crap back then as there is today. the only difference is that old crap has nostalgia going for it.
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I dunno how related this (http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2011/07/dr-wilys-revenge-rated-by-esrb.html) could be, but...
They canned MML3 but want to re-release this? I just hope this had been decided beforehand...
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It's been out already in the JP VC for a while IIRC. Vixy could confirm.
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Basically, Capcom's way of saying "sorry, we [tornado fang]'d up."
Though honestly, that's good news on its own, since it was my first Mega Man game (possibly video game), and it hasn't lost its touch. But I'm biased. :D
That's probably worthy of its own thread, and though extremely overdue, the Game Boy games will always be welcome. Still not enough for me to buy a 3DS like Legends would be, but it's good to know it's there.
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I dunno how related this (http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2011/07/dr-wilys-revenge-rated-by-esrb.html) could be, but...
They canned MML3 but want to re-release this? I just hope this had been decided beforehand...
well...that was sad.
well done capcom i lost the bit of respet i used to have for you -AC
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Why? For releasing something that was already out in Japan over a month ago? Seriously guys =/
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I hope they realize that simply rereleasing a gameboy game on the 3DS isnt going to quell anything. In fact, it would be like pouring a glass of water on a raging house fire.
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I've had my eye on Solatorobo. I hope they bring to the US.
Solatorobo: Red the Hunter came out for PAL this month, and the US should be getting it in September
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Solatorobo: Red the Hunter came out for PAL this month, and the US should be getting it in September
Cool. It's nice to have another quality DS title, infact this is the only good one that the DS has had in a while.
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Get Me Off The Moon has surpassed 1 / 4 of it's goal already at 25,300 likes.
http://www.facebook.com/GetMeOffTheMoon
Also, googling "canceled" brings up Joystiq's Mega Man Legends 3 cancellation article as the 3rd result. Googling "cancelled" brings up Protodude's at 5th. =O
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Yeeeeah, 100,000 people isn't going to happen. By the end of the month, I'd bet maybe...40,000 is the best numbers they get. And I'm sure somepeople on there liked is because thier friends asked them to like it for them. Anyways, did you guys know that The Protomen just recently recieved a cease and desist by Capcom? Those Megaman tears sure are flowing in.
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Looking into it it seems that that was probably fake too.
Lot's of people are trying to add to the fire ^^;
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Jeez, that doesn't really help the whole "We think we deserve Legends 3" cause. ::) Something that bugs me about how they are trying to get people to sign for Megaman and the reason I don't think it will succeed is that fans aren't doing much to show -why- they think (And I stress the word "think") it's worth being revived. As far as an actual character goes, Voltnutt is not fleshed out at all. He's bland and there's nothing special about him and fans aren't helping in with showing what they think is special about that Megaman or the game at all. There's no reaching out. Like Yahtzee said. It's like asking people to feel sorry for a brick, because it's brick children have left home and don't write.
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The characterization with Rock here is that he has lived two completely different lives. his characterization comes from exposition into his background, and how he has to re-start his mission to finish off the system and all that jazz.
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The 100,000 plan may not go as planned, but it's something, and it's definately getting attention. The thing is, fans don't really know what to do right now, it all set in so quickly. This plan seemed like the most plausible.
Now, I'm just going to throw this out there, but if Capcom decided to restart the project, it would be one great publicity stunt. Enough people were excited by the fact that theyr'e reviving a long dead series, but it became even more famous after the cancellation itself, and all the negative feelings.
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Something that bugs me about how they are trying to get people to sign for Megaman and the reason I don't think it will succeed is that fans aren't doing much to show -why- they think (And I stress the word "think") it's worth being revived.
There's no point in them going into a whole rant about why they want it back, Capcom doesn't need people on fb telling them that, Unity already has that covered. The reason for signing is simple. Like everyone has been saying time and time again for a hundred times: This had massive fan support, with contributions and concepts that fans had worked hard on for the sole cause of bringing this dream project into reality. This was quite literally a smack to the face to people anticipating a series that many thought would stay untouched. The MM franchise as a whole has become less and less prominent with Capcom. And the company knows it. So to speak, this would have been a fresh start for a lot of newcomers to the series. And for veterans, to crack their knuckles in preparation of entering the vast environments of the Legends world once again.
Keep on mind that Universe was also cancelled, so fans have the right to assume that Cappy has pretty much lost all faith in Megaman financially.
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I dunno how related this (http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2011/07/dr-wilys-revenge-rated-by-esrb.html) could be, but...
They canned MML3 but want to re-release this? I just hope this had been decided beforehand...
Well if not:
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5426/53131709.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/53131709.jpg/)
+
(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8228/demotivationalpostersquv.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/demotivationalpostersquv.jpg/)
=
How I would feel.
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I dunno how related this (http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2011/07/dr-wilys-revenge-rated-by-esrb.html) could be, but...
They canned MML3 but want to re-release this? I just hope this had been decided beforehand...
Well I mean it had already been in the JP 3DS shop since the shop went up (or a week after, I forget)
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Food for thought:
Capcom may be comparing Legends 3 to Legends 2. In by judging the sales of Legends 2 to not warrant another game. Thinking about it, and the immense dev room response and the reports of fans everywhere being up in arms across the whole internet, including devs. This doesn't add up. So it came to me;
Capcom I believe has discounted the player base, by simply comparing numbers to that of Legends 2's sales. In reality, both of the games have been out and about for 10 years. Being borrowed, handed down, re-sold, rented, and emulated I think it's safe to presume the fan base is much larger than the initial sales numbers, because many more people have played it in the last 10 years by other means.
Just my two cents.
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You could be right.
In fact, with proper research Capcom could find out whether or not the customer base of MML3 is big enough or not and adjust a proper marketing campaign to assure a minimum of sales.
But researches and campaigns like that already cost a lot of money.
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I know I've personally pushed off Legends to a dozen or more of people who never had a PSX or never was able to find it, or never would have tried it normally.
In fact, I never purchased a copy of either game at the time. I honestly never found them for sale, or knew much about them at the time they came out. All the copies I've played were rentals, and ultimately, as much as I hate to admit it, burned disks (I had a mod chip). I just could never find it for sale new, since I missed the window of launch.
Most of this can be attributed to me being a late adopter of the PSX. I never got it when it first came out. X4 and Legends being the reason I eventually got it, after I was showed the games by a friend.
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Yeah. I know I never played it when it was new due to not having a PSX yet.
But look at me, I just played Legends 1 a few days ago for the first time, and started L2 the other night. (been meaning to play them, never got the chance)
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mmmm... i was wondering about...
capcom really want to continue megaman games, or kill it for more "profitable" proyects
maybe they want to, nothing says about a classic game cannot be made in new hardware (example : fallout) of course we want megaman back , but maybe capcom think fans aren`t a real market target, of something happens inside the company what make them hate the idea of another megaman...or just they are stupids and retarded yellow people...
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or just they are stupids and retarded yellow people...
We can do without the racism, thanks.
And i can barely comprehend your statement.
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Lol, stupid Yellow people...
Also, I am going to assume English isnt his primary language.
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Food for thought:
Capcom may be comparing Legends 3 to Legends 2. In by judging the sales of Legends 2 to not warrant another game. Thinking about it, and the immense dev room response and the reports of fans everywhere being up in arms across the whole internet, including devs. This doesn't add up. So it came to me;
Capcom I believe has discounted the player base, by simply comparing numbers to that of Legends 2's sales. In reality, both of the games have been out and about for 10 years. Being borrowed, handed down, re-sold, rented, and emulated I think it's safe to presume the fan base is much larger than the initial sales numbers, because many more people have played it in the last 10 years by other means.
Just my two cents.
It's probably also worth noting that, to people looking to the e-Shop for relief from a 3DS software draugth, the Prototype Version could find its way to new customers on the grounds of being the only native 3DS game on the service.
There's STILL no actual 3DS games up there. Just 3D Classics, Virtual Console, and DSi.
I know I've personally pushed off Legends to a dozen or more of people who never had a PSX or never was able to find it, or never would have tried it normally.
In fact, I never purchased a copy of either game at the time. I honestly never found them for sale, or knew much about them at the time they came out. All the copies I've played were rentals, and ultimately, as much as I hate to admit it, burned disks (I had a mod chip). I just could never find it for sale new, since I missed the window of launch.
Most of this can be attributed to me being a late adopter of the PSX. I never got it when it first came out. X4 and Legends being the reason I eventually got it, after I was showed the games by a friend.
The fact that I fell fanatically in love with Legends is probably the only reason I own legitimate discs. I (or rather, my big brother) got a PSX in decent time for L2, but I had to search nowhere-near-local indie shops for L1 (no manual), and managed to snag Misadventures off of a bargain rack.
This makes it all the more irritating that Legends is for some reason failing Capcom's IP-checks for re-release. Even to people who genuinely want to backtrack, it is exceedingly difficult to do.
I dunno how related this (http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2011/07/dr-wilys-revenge-rated-by-esrb.html) could be, but...
They canned MML3 but want to re-release this? I just hope this had been decided beforehand...
I'm sure it was. Classic is the most "marketable" series in terms of brand name recognition. We saw what happened with Wii's VC, after all.
Which kinda sucks for me, being an Xtreme2 fan...
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We can do without the racism, thanks.
And i can barely comprehend your statement.
ups.... sorry about that , yea i was stupid, :-[
sorry sorry
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What I don't get is why Capcom missed a very good oppurtunity to build comsumer base. I mean MML3 may or maynot sell to well but at least they can draw in new fans and then surprise them with MM11 or something. Things got screwed up when the Inafking left the company or even before that tried to "americanize" the company.
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The fact that I fell fanatically in love with Legends is probably the only reason I own legitimate discs. I (or rather, my big brother) got a PSX in decent time for L2, but I had to search nowhere-near-local indie shops for L1 (no manual), and managed to snag Misadventures off of a bargain rack.
This makes it all the more irritating that Legends is for some reason failing Capcom's IP-checks for re-release. Even to people who genuinely want to backtrack, it is exceedingly difficult to do.
Capcom should check some of the prices on Ebay and Amazon for these damn games to see how sought after they are. ESPECIALLY L2. Legends 2 beats out even Symphony of the Night in terms of price ranges. Symphony usually caps at around $80something, 100 at most, and can be bought for as low as 20 bucks. Legends 2? Starts at around $50, and caps at around $300.
300! Thats pretty expensive.
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That doesn't really mean anything considering huge pieces of [parasitic bomb] like Cheetahmen (http://cinemassacre.com/2010/06/09/avgn-cheetahmen/) go for similarly high prices due to simply being rare.
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Things got screwed up when the Inafking left the company or even before that tried to "americanize" the company.
He was trying to "American-ise" Capcom for a genuine reason. He himself said that the Japanese market is afraid of (and suffering because they weren't fully taking advantage of) digital downloads and in turn, microtransactions; that remark was aimed at Capcom Co., but applies to other Japanese studios too.
If anything, that still applies now as Capcom made the choice to suspend not one, but two games in the last few months, one of which was definitely a digital title. I'm unsure if their cited "criteria" echoes what Inafune said before, but it's food for thought.
Personally, I think that they're being (extremely) cautious now with the brand. DASH3 was the first new game in a while, considering how the last few games (Operate Shooting Star, ZERO Collection) were financial failures. Putting up older games on Virtual Console is, at the moment, a safe move.
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Those two wouldn't be failures if they had put more effort into them. OSS was just a BN1 port with 1 extra scenario and playable Subaru...BN1 is still a bland game so ofcourse noone would buy it. Zero collection had it a bit better..but it was still just a collection of the 4 games with no extra content (Art that was around for years? EASY mode?!). So yeah.
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I'd never really played the earlier Battle Network games that much, so I enjoyed playing OSS because i never played the original.
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Well..you did. Since they didn't change anything in OSS.
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That doesn't really mean anything considering huge pieces of [parasitic bomb] like Cheetahmen (http://cinemassacre.com/2010/06/09/avgn-cheetahmen/) go for similarly high prices due to simply being rare.
Except Cheetamen is sought after BECAUSE it's so [parasitic bomb].
the reason that games like this are expensive, is not only because they are rare, but because there is demand for them. people WANT to get their hands on these games, and since they are harder to find, rare, they prices skyrocket. otherwise you could find other rare games that just aren't worth that much because people arent interested in buying them.
If Legends 2 is expensive, it is because people really want to get their hands on a copy, particularly a new copy.
And with Legends 3, one can imagine that Legends 1 and 2 saw an increase in demand. Legends 1 isnt as rare, so it doesnt get so expensive. And people really just want Legends 2 a whole lot more.
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Well..you did. Since they didn't change anything in OSS.
There were things like the Custom screen being changed to later games' (which meant the Escape chip being removed), elemental armors were removed to accomodate for S.S.Rockman (big change in folders for Rockman but made SSR obviously broken), and Uranet naming was introduced into the maps. There's probably more things if I looked it up.
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It's tough to say with the Cheetah Men comparisson. The game's only limited to NES collectors, since it was technically unreleased. Despite its rarity, many gamers want it purely to say they have a complete set. That being said Legends is an uncommon game, but I'd be willing to bet that it has more to do with it being a standout title. Just like a lot of Super NES games that sold well actually go for surprisingly high prices just because they're so coveted.
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Megaman games are hard to find in PAL regions aswell >_>'
Only PSX game I saw here was X6, and that was a rental. Local indie stores are the way to go, for sure: got X8 from one. But, most of my retail Megaman games are from the UK, except X7 (with a nostalgia trip G8+ rating printed on the cover!) along with MHX and MMPU.
That said, the only Legends I played was Megaman 64 via emulator. Still, it's because of here that I know of Legends, wish I were more grateful haha.
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I blame that on poor promotion... if anyone can tell Mega Man really isn't high on Capcom Europe's priorities.
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Except Cheetamen is sought after BECAUSE it's so [parasitic bomb].
the reason that games like this are expensive, is not only because they are rare, but because there is demand for them. people WANT to get their hands on these games, and since they are harder to find, rare, they prices skyrocket. otherwise you could find other rare games that just aren't worth that much because people arent interested in buying them.
If Legends 2 is expensive, it is because people really want to get their hands on a copy, particularly a new copy.
And with Legends 3, one can imagine that Legends 1 and 2 saw an increase in demand. Legends 1 isnt as rare, so it doesnt get so expensive. And people really just want Legends 2 a whole lot more.
Well... yes? The thing is, it still doesn't tell Capcom much about how high the demand for L3 would be.
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Don't the fans do that? Oh right, Capcom Europe. -AC
Anyways, Legends 3 would be a very unorthodox sequel in the amount of time that has past since the last game. More fans have had the chance to see it, and its definately gained interest after the internet. All-in-all judging sales by something so outdated isn't very accurate. Which is why the prototype version is was such a good idea.
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Well... yes? The thing is, it still doesn't tell Capcom much about how high the demand for L3 would be.
Then what was the whole deal with putting in so many Legends cameos? Tron, Volnutt and the Servbots had mroe camoes in non mega man games than Zero and Rock combined.. What more does Capcom need to convince them to make L3?
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If L2 goes for high prices like that, It means there are people who liked it. People who WANT it, and if there is so much demand for L2, then what does that say about L3?
I blame that on poor promotion... if anyone can tell Mega Man really isn't high on Capcom Europe's priorities.
Its not like his promotion is much better in the US.
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Or..anywhere really.
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That was just a reference to Capcom Europe's views on it all. I think they do have it worse over there, but currently, Capcom has killed Mega Man everywhere.
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Or..anywhere really.
Japan still has better Mega Man promotion than everywhere else, has always HAD better promotion, and probably always will.
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If L2 goes for high prices like that, It means there are people who liked it. People who WANT it, and if there is so much demand for L2, then what does that say about L3?
What I was saying is that the demand for rare copies of an old famous game does not give a good indicator of the demand for a new addition to the series, since it wouldn't be old, famous, or rare.
Then what was the whole deal with putting in so many Legends cameos? Tron, Volnutt and the Servbots had mroe camoes in non mega man games than Zero and Rock combined.. What more does Capcom need to convince them to make L3?
I think that was just Capcom hauling in the money from those Legends fans who were so keen to get recognition that they'd support even marginally related products.
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Japan still has better Mega Man promotion than everywhere else, has always HAD better promotion, and probably always will.
You've also got to consider the fan base there.
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Man this debate takes me back.
Back to the time of ZX/ZXA when everyone was talking about how Capcom didn't like the sales outside of Japan.
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Man this debate takes me back.
Back to the time of ZX/ZXA when everyone was talking about how Capcom didn't like the sales outside of Japan.
I thought it was that they disregarded the sales of the ZX games in the US, didn't ZXA sell better here than it did in Japan?
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IIRC, it wasn't terribly impressive in either region, but did do better here.
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Usually when a game is developed with a new concept, it takes a few tries to get it just right, like how the zero games got progressively better(for me) with each sequel. Most of the forms in ZXA weren't very balanced and lost value as you cam across better forms. Buckfire for example lost almost all playability once you got Atlas... ^^;
They also focused too much on puzzle elements rather than core gameplay features. It really was a shame since they could have done so many little things that could have made some forms more enjoyable. I would have played with Vulturon a lot more if his Sound attack could actually be used as a shield like he could during the boss fight, or hiding different types of weapon containers in a stage that you could pick up with QueenBee to make up for her lack of fire power!
Maybe they had these kind of things planned for the game, but couldn't put them in due to deadlines or other problems. It's important to know what gameplay elements are most important for a game to make it fun and focus on those. Afterwards, you can build on miniquests and other stuff for replay value. I'm sure Inticreates has a better idea on how boss forms could work and could make it even more enjoyable in the next game, if they get to make one that is.
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Mega Man X9.com's Jeff has made a Legends 3 hub page
http://www.legends3.com/
basically links to all the major L3 efforts,
the Facebook group 100,000 Strong for Bringing Back legends 3, the devroom petition, the devroom sound off, (Sven reads the topic) and a link to the devroom, which folks are being encouraged to join to up it's numbers, much like the facebook effort.
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Reminder, folks:
The "Legends Never Die (http://legendsneverdieproject.wordpress.com/)" snail-mail campaign is kicking off. My fellow East Coast fans need to get their stuff out today or tomorrow, with the rest of the time zones to follow.
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Can you believe the balls that Morgan Webb and Adam Sessler of G4's Xplay have? They have the odacity to say nobody cared about Megaman Legends 3, all whilst after reading an email from an upset fan on the air.
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Was it really those two, or that episode's writer?
Either way, depressing as hell.
edit: http://www.themmnetwork.com/2011/08/16/why-was-capcom-going-to-charge-for-the-mega-man-legends-3-prototype-version/
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People are still annoyed about this? I honestly forgot the whole thing even existed til just now.
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Can you believe the balls that Morgan Webb and Adam Sessler of G4's Xplay have? They have the odacity to say nobody cared about Megaman Legends 3, all whilst after reading an email from an upset fan on the air.
I can understand why they said that, but I'm still going to say it's not true. Sure, it's become more popular after the cancellation, but there was still a lot of hype to begin with. People were thrilled that a long-dead, yet classic, series would finally get a new sequel. We had little reason to doubt Capcom, as even most fans thought it was an impossible endeavor previous to the announcement.
Though, fans are definately more upset after the announcement, as opposed to had it never been announced. Capcom told us it might not happen, but the reason everyone was mad is that they didn't even try (cancelling the prototype edition).
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Indeed.
I'm also quite certain that releasing the Prototype as an e-Shop launch title, as originally planned, would have generated a fair amount of buzz. Hell, they could release it today it'd STILL be the only e-Shop game to not be a port. Admist the current software drought, the Prototype would have been impossible to NOT notice, had it been released.
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lol people care what xplay thinks.
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one of which is a sniper shot that hits wherever the opponent is. This super leaves the opponent in a crumple stun that can be comboed off of, but if missed, has a long cooldown that leaves you wide open to attack.
Hmm, I'm guessing her Lv2 Super will basically be near-identical to Snake's Final Smash, only on auto-pilot and platform-less. Guess that means NO ESCAPE! >BD
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lol people care what xplay thinks.
Yeah, they pretty much show their suckiness at video games in their Network Transmission Review.
BAWW GUTSMAN IS TOO HARD, no he isn't, don't stand next to him dumbasses.
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I'd much rather watch IGN's video game reviews than X-play's. That says something.
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I liked X-Play back in '03-'06... :/
Also, dunno if this was mentioned yet, but: http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2011/08/farwell-devroom.html
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Good bye dev team, I hardy knew ya. :'(
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Next big project, for those not keeping up, is an international Servbot collaboration. Started by Japanese fan O.S., spread to the english-speaking internet thanks to Dashe and Amunshen.
Deadline is September 10. Details here: http://legendsneverdieproject.wordpress.com/
I just wrapped up my submission.
(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/240/a/2/servbot_000665__on_a_mission_by_hypershell-d484cba.jpg)
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Sorry for bringing this thread back, but I just remembered something of relevance.
Remember Mega Man? The ORIGINAL on the NES? Gamers today may know that it's pretty hard-to-find game, and this normally happens to games that didn't do so hot during its original run (of course fan demand has also made it more valuable). The thing is, Mega Man's poor sales would have made Capcom forget about it and move on, however it was fan reception that made Capcom give the Blue Bomber a second chance. With a lot on the line, and a potential disaster, Mega Man 2 was released. I think we all know the rest.
The point is; listen to the fans. You've got an overwhelmingly large number of people who want this game released. Though the time between Mega Man and Mega Man 2 is a lot different than the span between Legends 2 and [what would be] 3, it's all the same. It's late, I hope that all made sense.
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Sorry for bringing this thread back, but I just remembered something of relevance.
Remember Mega Man? The ORIGINAL on the NES? Gamers today may know that it's pretty hard-to-find game, and this normally happens to games that didn't do so hot during its original run (of course fan demand has also made it more valuable). The thing is, Mega Man's poor sales would have made Capcom forget about it and move on, however it was fan reception that made Capcom give the Blue Bomber a second chance. With a lot on the line, and a potential disaster, Mega Man 2 was released. I think we all know the rest.
The point is; listen to the fans. You've got an overwhelmingly large number of people who want this game released. Though the time between Mega Man and Mega Man 2 is a lot different than the span between Legends 2 and [what would be] 3, it's all the same. It's late, I hope that all made sense.
You'll find that very hard. Capcom of the past isn't the Capcom of now. Their entire business standards have changed, and now, they're a multi-million dollar company with several gaming hits around the world. They function like a Hollywood movie company, and their interest is not to please the fans, but to please the general audience with blockbuster games.
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I have been silent on this matter until now, because I wanted to carefully think before I posted this:
1. This is Keiji Inafune's fault. If he had waited until this was finished to leave, we would be playing the prototype right now.
2. This is also Marketing in CoA's fault. They have been under selling the Mega Man Brand FOR YEARS.
The reason I say it's Inafune's fault, is because he was the only person at Capcom pushing for new Mega Man games. Without him, Mega Man the brand, as we know it will cease to exist. There will be new games, but not like they have been. They will be completely different.
The reason I say this is also CoA's fault, is because the marketing over here had sucked from day one for Mega Man. I really think gamer's would like Mega Man if they had been marketed to properly in the past, this would in turn have made the brand more popular when we where younger, and that in turn would have forced CoJ to make better quality MM games. We would be playing triple A titles right now if CoA had done a better job at marketing Mega Man.
That's my two cents.
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Re #1: Technically correct. But I find it hard to fault him for wanting to do something he enjoys that other people can also enjoy.
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Oh, please. He left because Capcom had been bullshitting him for years, and he knew this was gonna happen. Legends was his favorite series, but Capcom had become the most horrible place for him to work at, so he left it. And yeah, look at the company now. Four different versions of Street Fighter 4 since it came out, refusing to localize a beloved series, turning its best zombie franchise into a generic zombie killing squad game, re-releasing Dead Rising 2 with only a small expansion and a non-canon story, screwing Devil May Cry up the ass in possibly the worst way possible, making an Okami sequel which is the same game downgraded, releasing a new version of MvC3 not even a year after the first one came out, ignoring franchises like Strider and Breath of Fire, while baiting fans with stuff like Darkstalkers and not even making it.
The man has been working for years and years at this company, he helped create it, he helpes develop many, many of their key franchises, and if it wasn't for him, Capcom wouldn't be the successful company they are. But they screwed him over, and now operate like 90% of big japanese developers. Just trying to make the next big gaming blockbuster. He DESERVES a way out of this misery.
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Also, I get the feeling that Capcom would've cancelled MMU and MML3 even if Mr. Inafune hadn't quit. It'd just take them longer.
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Sorry for bringing this thread back, but I just remembered something of relevance.
Remember Mega Man? The ORIGINAL on the NES? Gamers today may know that it's pretty hard-to-find game, and this normally happens to games that didn't do so hot during its original run (of course fan demand has also made it more valuable). The thing is, Mega Man's poor sales would have made Capcom forget about it and move on, however it was fan reception that made Capcom give the Blue Bomber a second chance. With a lot on the line, and a potential disaster, Mega Man 2 was released. I think we all know the rest.
MM2 was done in what free time Inafune and Co had. That was the condition from Capcom for Mega Man to get a sequel. Luckily for us, it worked out.
The point is; listen to the fans. You've got an overwhelmingly large number of people who want this game released. Though the time between Mega Man and Mega Man 2 is a lot different than the span between Legends 2 and [what would be] 3, it's all the same. It's late, I hope that all made sense.
Internet Echo Chamber in effect. Your "overwhelmingly large" number of people is just a very vocal minority. When it came to the Legends series, Capcom did listen to the fans. And the fans didn't buy the games. I don't think the PSP rereleases did so hot either. Cult status or not, the fact is all three Legends games put Capcom in the red which is why it we didn't get a Legends 3 ten years ago.
And it's not just Capcom that's gone awry. Inafune's later Capcom years weren't so hot either. He spent alot of time trying to recreate the magic that was Mega Man 2 and failed (though he lucked out with Dead Rising becoming the hit it was). He's one of the people who pushed for Devil May Cry to become what it is under Ninja Theory, so he could get that so beloved "Western Touch" ( http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/112/1129209p1.html ). His vanity projects, Maverick Hunter X and Mega Man Powered Up, tanked hard -- Just like all three Legends titles. And if ZXA couldn't get a sequel when outsold both MHX and MMPU world wide, there's no way that a series that put Capcom in the red was going to get a solid sequel after a decade. Capcom may be going to crap, but Inafune wasn't helping his own case.
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Not just that. Fan communities like these are a dime a dozen. And Capcom knows they'll buy their games regardless of what they do. I'm not gonna buy any games from Capcom in the future, mostly because I'm not really interested in anything they have to offer except for Asura's Wrath. But you guys are probably gonna give them money for every single franchise you're even slightly interested in, that's how fan communities work. Fans [sonic slicer], but then always buy it in the end. So it doesn't really matter if you like it or not. They're still going to get your money. They just need your attention.
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I'll quote Cliff Blezinski on this. I mean, he was talking about the Wii U, but it's still applicable.
"...I'll buy it. I know I'll buy it. They'll talk [parasitic bomb] but they'll buy it."
See? Applicable. That's all I wanted to say.
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Exactly! I mean, most fans won't stick to any of the bullshit they preach. If they were against changes in their games, they'd stop buying them. But they don't. So, companies carry on their bullshit.
I'll give a small non-game related example. Remember the whole Spider-Man selling his marriage to the devil thing? I remember a PR interview that said, that as long as they kept pulling off crazy stunts to give fans something to [sonic slicer] about, they'd be selling copies. So their game was not to please the fans. But to get their attention. And it worked. It sold like crazy.
This is the same thing. Might be gigantic bullshit, but we're all here, talking about it. And a ton of fans will end up buying that crappy new Devil May Cry game, if only because they have a need to see what the franchise turned into, or what they can [sonic slicer] about it. Same as fans buying every singly iteration of Street Fighter 4, and same with people going to buy Ultimate MvC3 when it comes out. YOU are going to buy it. Yes, you. And it's all your fault. As well as the other countless thousands of fans.
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Capcom has me by the balls with Street Fighter and MVC. If it wasn't for that, I could boycott them completely. I'll play the games one way or another, but the company will never see the revenue from me.
DLC kinda throws a monkey wrench into that type of plan though. You cant second hand or pirate DLC typically without sacrificing something big like online play. So for Capcom fighters, they got me one way or another. I just can't pass it up.
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Thankfully, im not all that enthusiastic over MVC3. Looks fun, but Ive played TvC and TBH, fighting games while a nice time waster, arent my cup of tea in the long run.
All I really buy from Capcom is megaman, and his future is as DLC 8 bit retro rehash games, so that can be pirated. I might try Asura's Wrath, but again, ill have to see.
Right now Sega has the love that i had previously allocated towards Capcom
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Capcom has me by the balls with Street Fighter and MVC. If it wasn't for that, I could boycott them completely. I'll play the games one way or another, but the company will never see the revenue from me.
DLC kinda throws a monkey wrench into that type of plan though. You cant second hand or pirate DLC typically without sacrificing something big like online play. So for Capcom fighters, they got me one way or another. I just can't pass it up.
Then buy them used. Or pirate them. Or borrow them. But at least stand up for your principles long enough to stop giving a company you don't like money.
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I have no money to give Capcom and I don't play video games that often nowadays anyway. So, uh, problem solved?
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Just borrow a friend's gamertag that has DLC and download it.
And get banned in the process for stealing revenue (apparently), so there you go... there's keeping you from being tempted to get it yourself.
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Im not buying a damn thing Capcom puts out. Unless is is more Mega Man. Everything else can rot in hell.
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Seriously, I doubt Capcom cares too much about your money. Because you know, if they did they would have released Legends 3.
In the end you're the ones missing out, not Capcom.
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^ I could swear you said that earlier, word for word.
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Repeated for truth?
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^ I could swear you said that earlier, word for word.
I probably did. It's worth repeating, as the man above me says.
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Capcom have simply evolved into an Activision-type industry. They don't want to connect with fans, they want money. It's like saying Universal Studios or Paramount Pictures have any interest in pleasing people. They don't. Do you see any Universal or Paramount fans? No. For what they are now, you shouldn't see any Capcom fans either. Because that's exactly what their structure has become. Businessmen making money.
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But I'll probably remain a devoted fan of Capcom Sound Team.
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But I'll probably remain a devoted fan of Capcom Sound Team.
the same thing happen to me...
example for me konami is only a music studio now 8D
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Capcom have simply evolved into an Activision-type industry. They don't want to connect with fans, they want money. It's like saying Universal Studios or Paramount Pictures have any interest in pleasing people. They don't. Do you see any Universal or Paramount fans? No. For what they are now, you shouldn't see any Capcom fans either. Because that's exactly what their structure has become. Businessmen making money.
Pretty much everything is about marketing. Everything.
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Pretty much everything is about marketing. Everything.
Different developers have different ways to make money. Valve connects with fans and tries to make what they want. Atlus makes products in a diminished capacity, to serve to a niche audience. Capcom is an entertainment mongul that serves only to the masses.
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Different developers have different ways to make money. Valve connects with fans and tries to make what they want. Atlus makes products in a diminished capacity, to serve to a niche audience. Capcom is an entertainment mongul that serves only to the masses.
I'd say that Capcom serves what they perceive to be the masses, not the actual masses. I'm probably not part of either group anyways, so Capcom isn't getting any of my money. MML3 was the last straw in a very long list of things that bugged me about their current way of doing business.
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Different developers have different ways to make money. Valve connects with fans and tries to make what they want. Atlus makes products in a diminished capacity, to serve to a niche audience. Capcom is an entertainment mongul that serves only to the masses.
But what it all boils down to is making money. Some companies, businesses, people, networks, etc., do it in ways people like, some don't, but the ultimate goal is still the same no matter how they try to spin it to you. Some companies have a better PR system than others, that's all. It's no different than how men pick up women and visa versa. You're selling yourself in a different way than the competition and how you go about it usually affects how you score.
Capcom of America is actually pretty decent with connecting with fans at conventions and such. Lord knows how many pictures & conversations I've had with Seth Killian. The problem is that no matter how CoA tries to connect with their fans, there's little they can do if the higher ups say "[tornado fang] it" and go all cost effective.
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But what it all boils down to is making money. Some companies, businesses, people, networks, etc., do it in ways people like, some don't, but the ultimate goal is still the same no matter how they try to spin it to you. Some companies have a better PR system than others, that's all. It's no different than how men pick up women and visa versa. You're selling yourself in a different way than the competition and how you go about it usually affects how you score.
Capcom of America is actually pretty decent with connecting with fans at conventions and such. Lord knows how many pictures & conversations I've had with Seth Killian. The problem is that no matter how CoA tries to connect with their fans, there's little they can do if the higher ups say "[tornado fang] it" and go all cost effective.
Nope. Capcom's owned by a bunch of executives who don't know the first thing about gaming, and the PR is managed by a few poor guys who love gaming while being given obtuse orders on how to run the company.
Valve is actually self-owned. There's no shareholders, no big execs, no guys with money telling the employees how to run things. The employees OWN Valve. They OWN Steam. They manage the projects the way they want, how they want. Gabe receives e-mail from fans, and reads every single one of them. They are their own PR. They keep making free content for fans, after they're playing the same game for years and years. Working at Valve is considered the best workplace in the gaming industry. They are gaming's Google. And they make a lot of money easily with Steam.
Atlus has been an independent company up until 2010. They're corporately-owned now, but before, they were pretty much a fan-listening machine, they always brought over stuff people wanted, and always tried to make it so their job was fun. Always printed their games in small quantity and went in forums to listen to fans' opinions.
My point is that Capcom, aside from the cool people working there, has turned into a company who prioritizes the masses instead of the fans. Companies like Valve or Atlus would never pull bullshit like the Legends 3 cancellation, or the Devil May Cry reboot. They're targeting the mass crowd, going for mass appeal instead of listening to the people. That's the difference between one and the other. They're all in the business to make money, yes. But some prioritize pleasing the fans and giving them a worthwhile experience.
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Capcom of America is actually pretty decent with connecting with fans at conventions and such. Lord knows how many pictures & conversations I've had with Seth Killian. The problem is that no matter how CoA tries to connect with their fans, there's little they can do if the higher ups say "[tornado fang] it" and go all cost effective.
My point is that Capcom, aside from the cool people working there, has turned into a company who prioritizes the masses instead of the fans.
One thing that really annoys me is when people start attacking CoA for MM-related stuff (you see this all the time on Unity). The Capcom staff are actually really friendly people, but they can't change what goes on with the higher-ups in Japan. They're pretty much spokesmen/women that say what the higher-ups tell them to. It's kind of a shame though, I wish the Capcom heads would look a little more at the consumer side of things, but that's all JP related.
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Yeah. No matter how cool CoA may be, and boy they certainly have their work cut out for them when it comes to the L3 cancellation responses- they have no power over the games and properties. That lies exclusively with CoJ, and the executives that run it. And Inafune has already gone into detail on how they run it, so theres no need to discuss that. Suffice to say, CoJ is just about money, and they get money by appealing to the masses. And they know that many fans will still buy their products regardless of any anger caused. They will just soothe them over with another Street Figher re-release.
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Nope. Capcom's owned by a bunch of executives who don't know the first thing about gaming, and the PR is managed by a few poor guys who love gaming while being given obtuse orders on how to run the company.
Valve is actually self-owned. There's no shareholders, no big execs, no guys with money telling the employees how to run things. The employees OWN Valve. They OWN Steam. They manage the projects the way they want, how they want. Gabe receives e-mail from fans, and reads every single one of them. They are their own PR. They keep making free content for fans, after they're playing the same game for years and years. Working at Valve is considered the best workplace in the gaming industry. They are gaming's Google. And they make a lot of money easily with Steam.
Atlus has been an independent company up until 2010. They're corporately-owned now, but before, they were pretty much a fan-listening machine, they always brought over stuff people wanted, and always tried to make it so their job was fun. Always printed their games in small quantity and went in forums to listen to fans' opinions.
My point is that Capcom, aside from the cool people working there, has turned into a company who prioritizes the masses instead of the fans. Companies like Valve or Atlus would never pull bullshit like the Legends 3 cancellation, or the Devil May Cry reboot. They're targeting the mass crowd, going for mass appeal instead of listening to the people. That's the difference between one and the other. They're all in the business to make money, yes. But some prioritize pleasing the fans and giving them a worthwhile experience.
How long Valve and Steam stay that way will be a testament to the industry, I think.
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Indefinitely. They OWN the online game-shopping market, what could they possibly want from some corporate executive with money?
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How long Valve and Steam stay that way will be a testament to the industry, I think.
Aside from having probably about 80% of the entire PC games market, and being one of the most successful game companies of all time, I can tell you that the day Valve decides to become corporate, is the day Gabe and EVERYONE who works at Valve quit their jobs. It's kinda like a Nazi party deciding to go jew. It just isn't likely, due to their way to work, success and ideals.
Some other developers can be credited for that too. You know CdProjekt? Self-owned too. They dedicate themselves not only to making amazing games that push the normal pc standards like the Witcher series, but they have a website call GOG, Good Old Games. It's a website that not only sells classic game installers to a person, completely legally and updated to new operating systems, without DRM, but it also gives them the LEGAL RIGHT to own those copies, and make any copies of the software for personal use as necessary.
It's been having quite alot of success, and it won't go away anytime soon. We can also count a ton of other companies who have recently tried to reach out for people's decency and good standards as a way to go. Not all of these companies are filled with people who just want to make money. It's their job, yeah. But in some, you can see that they have this job because they love making games, they love creating things people like, and they love being part of a team who cares, in the middle of an industry of corporate monguls.
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Despite the fact that not all developers agree with Valve's micro-transactional side (read: hat simulator), yeah, that works.
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It's the way to monetize free games. None of it bears any importance on actual gameplay. It's only on asthetics.
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Seriously, I doubt Capcom cares too much about your money. Because you know, if they did they would have released Legends 3.
In the end you're the ones missing out, not Capcom.
Seriously, what the [tornado fang] am I missing out on?! Not a goddamned thing, that's what. Once again, Capcom can rot. Asura's wrath? Dragons dogma? Don't give a [tornado fang] about those. And dont get me started on the DmC reboot. LOL. That shits a joke. I know some of you are thinking, "He'll buy it anyways." No I really won't. Nintendo is still making good games and there seems to be a resurgence of good superhero games. I think I will be set for awhile. I can wait until a new Mega Man game comes.
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I meant you'd be missing out if you don't buy games you were originally going to just because Legends 3 got cancelled. If you were never going to get them in the first place then it doesn't apply to you, does it? Although it does make your "I'm not buying a damn thing Capcom puts out" statement pretty worthless.
Obviously, I don't expect you to buy every Capcom game ever just because they exist.
I can wait until a new Mega Man game comes.
Have fun waiting forever.
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Seriously, what the [tornado fang] am I missing out on?! Not a goddamned thing, that's what. Once again, Capcom can rot. Asura's wrath? Dragons dogma? Don't give a [tornado fang] about those. And dont get me started on the DmC reboot. LOL. That shits a joke. I know some of you are thinking, "He'll buy it anyways." No I really won't. Nintendo is still making good games and there seems to be a resurgence of good superhero games. I think I will be set for awhile. I can wait until a new Mega Man game comes.
Those are actually two original games that good teams are making. Good teams that give a [parasitic bomb] about games (the guys who made Asura's Wrath stated they REALLY wanted to develop Legends 3 after it was cancelled) and games that are actually NEW things. You know, not ports, remakes, sequels or spinoffs.
I'm not buying Capcom stuff, but don't say we're not missing out. Those are the two titles that they actually seem to be giving a [parasitic bomb] about. Specially Dragon's Dogma, in which they are sinking quite a bit of cash.
Nintendo is still making good games
8D
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Those are actually two original games that good teams are making. Good teams that give a [parasitic bomb] about games (the guys who made Asura's Wrath stated they REALLY wanted to develop Legends 3 after it was cancelled) and games that are actually NEW things. You know, not ports, remakes, sequels or spinoffs.
I'm not buying Capcom stuff, but don't say we're not missing out. Those are the two titles that they actually seem to be giving a [parasitic bomb] about. Specially Dragon's Dogma, in which they are sinking quite a bit of cash.
"I" am not missing out. Maybe you are, but I have other things to play.
8D
They are, stop trolling.
Edit: Anybody else think they probably ceased developing legends 3 so they could concentrate on MH4? They can only handle developing so many title at once. If Nintendo needed some help from Capcom on the software front, then I hate to admit it but MH4 will push a lot more systems than Legends 3. Thoughts?
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They are, stop trolling.
I didn't say anything. 8D
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I didn't say anything. 8D
LOL.
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Nintendo is still making good games
You seriously believe this.
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You seriously believe this.
so, also nintendo are making bad products?
oh... how the mighty have fallen
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Much like the internet, these days every game seems to be a rehash of a rehash.
Skyward Sword looks promising though, one of the VERY rare gems these days.
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Much like the internet, these days every game seems to be a rehash of a rehash.
Skyward Sword looks promising though, one of the VERY rare gems these days.
Agreed. Hopefully, it'll play as well as it looks. But bad official Zeldas don't exist, so it'll at the very least be fun.
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Zelda has me hyped, but I'm most looking forward to Mario 3D Land. A 3D Mario game that plays like a 2D one is a pretty sweet idea, after 4 games of Super Mario Sandboxing (which really gets old when you can't keep a single power-up in between). Point-A-to-point-B 3D platformers are exceedingly rare.
Capcom has me by the balls with Street Fighter and MVC.
For me, it's Monster Hunter and Ace Attorney (although neither of them are that huge in the west anyway).
I always thought of boycotts as an extreme and unproductive reaction anyway; they tell the company what you don't want, not what you do. Still, though Capcom has me at my fandoms (can't be helped), I'm certainly less inclined to take a chance with anything I'm less than certain of. Whether that be big names I used to play (Street Fighter) or new IPs (Ghost Trick).
You can say I'm missing out, and you're probably right. But as a matter of risk, why take a chance on an entity that refuses to take a chance on me? It's more the cancellation of the Prototype than the cancellation of Legends 3 itself that has a lot of fans, myself included, pissed off. That was their supposed gauge of interest, it was effectively done, and they backed out for the sheer hell of it when they could have had the only non-ported 3DS e-Shop game in existence (STILL). Even from the "we're only in it for money" standpoint, you'd think they would have released what they had in the Prototype and cancelled after the point.
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Nintendo making bad games, Capcom is japanese activsion and no Legends 3? What is going on?
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End of the world?
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Anybody else think they probably ceased developing legends 3 so they could concentrate on MH4? They can only handle developing so many title at once.
Sorry if I don't know how the games industry works, but if that were the case, couldn't they put MML3 on hiatus?
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But as a matter of risk, why take a chance on an entity that refuses to take a chance on me? It's more the cancellation of the Prototype than the cancellation of Legends 3 itself that has a lot of fans, myself included, pissed off. That was their supposed gauge of interest, it was effectively done, and they backed out for the sheer hell of it when they could have had the only non-ported 3DS e-Shop game in existence (STILL). Even from the "we're only in it for money" standpoint, you'd think they would have released what they had in the Prototype and cancelled after the point.
The company knows what fans want. They don't give it to them, because they'd rather invest in giving to the masses than the fans. But if the fans stop buying, they give the message that maybe Capcom should be working for the fans. The only way you can hurt them, is through your wallet.
It's what I'm hoping happens through DmC. I haven't seen a single person who says "I want to buy this game". It's all fans saying they're pissed off, or people who haven't had deep contact with the franchise going "It doesn't look bad, quit whining". But nobody's outright saying they want it.
If it actually tanks, and fans don't turn out to be little shits who buy it anyways for sheer curiosity of how the game turns out to be, then Capcom will go back to what we loved. But I got kind of a bad feeling that blindly finding out what comes next is more important for fans than actually caring about the quality of the franchise they like. >_>
Nintendo making bad games
They're not making bad games. Just basing their entire lineup out of sequels and ports. I really, really like Nintendo and their stuff, but I started liking them because of their amazing new ideas and concepts. If they go stale, like Tim Burton, George Lucas and Bioware before them, it'll be bad.
I'd just like to see fans going "I'd love to see something new from this company" instead of "I'd love to see a sequel to this obscure game I love". Nobody really does that.
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Nintendo's been making bad games since the NES; we just forgot about them easier back then.
As for sequels, I see nothing inherently wrong with them, but I've noticed that Nintendo seems a bit worse with the "obscure" sequels than with the expected ones (I'm hoping Sakurai at the head of Kid Icarus will change that). The likes Punch-Out!! and Pilotwings Resort are games that I call strong, but not quite all that they could have been.
The company knows what fans want. They don't give it to them, because they'd rather invest in giving to the masses than the fans.
I guess in the case of Legends 3 it'd be pretty hard to argue that Capcom doesn't know the demand is there.
Although, the more I think about it, the more I believe the cancellation of the Prototype was more to stop the Devroom than it was to stop Legends 3 itself. If money was a concern, and they only reconsidered after the Prototype was effectively finished, you'd think they wouldn't be so stupid as to throw away a chance at a quick return. God knows, pissed off or not, we'd have still eaten it up, nevermind the fact that they gave up a still ongoing monopoly over the e-Shop's audience.
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Nintendo's been making bad games since the NES; we just forgot about them easier back then.
As for sequels, I see nothing inherently wrong with them, but I've noticed that Nintendo seems a bit worse with the "obscure" sequels than with the expected ones (I'm hoping Sakurai at the head of Kid Icarus will change that). The likes Punch-Out!! and Pilotwings Resort are games that I call strong, but not quite all that they could have been.
I guess in the case of Legends 3 it'd be pretty hard to argue that Capcom doesn't know the demand is there.
Although, the more I think about it, the more I believe the cancellation of the Prototype was more to stop the Devroom than it was to stop Legends 3 itself. If money was a concern, and they only reconsidered after the Prototype was effectively finished, they wouldn't have thrown out a quick chance to get some return. And God knows, pissed off or not, we'd have still eaten it up.
Nintendo banked on originality back then. Now, it banks on constant hardcore nostalgia. Fans will eat it up. Doesn't mean it's a good direction, specially when games are striving hard to be taken as seriously as other types of art, and all we have to show for it, is that we're a Hollywood-lite, with even more remakes and sequels than the movie industry could ever dream of having in any movie.
And I honestly think they saw their strategy backfiring with this. The prototype was ready, but I don't think decent demo sales, for that kind of price, would justify putting forward the amount of cash required for the whole game, SPECIALLY with the 3DS sales being so low. Plus, the Prototype being out would make them even bigger assholes if they decided not to launch the main game, since they'd be under much more pressure. It was a lose-lose situation, and they just hoped fans didn't notice it was cancelled. Which didn't work as well. Now, they just have a tiny bit of drama ocurring. If they had released the prototype, they'd have to deal with removing it from the store, telling people it didn't work, having people [sonic slicer] about having the whole thing there and not trying, people using the tech demo to show how Capcom is unwilling to complete a game... it's a whole new box of [parasitic bomb] to deal with, something Capcom wasn't ready to handle. In their way, they did the smart thing. Even if they were the biggest jerks by waving a much-wanted product for over ten years in fans' faces.
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Hyper, what exactly do you mean by stopping the Devroom?
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Nintendo banked on originality back then. Now, it banks on constant hardcore nostalgia. Fans will eat it up. Doesn't mean it's a good direction, specially when games are striving hard to be taken as seriously as other types of art, and all we have to show for it, is that we're a Hollywood-lite, with even more remakes and sequels than the movie industry could ever dream of having in any movie.
And I honestly think they saw their strategy backfiring with this. The prototype was ready, but I don't think decent demo sales, for that kind of price, would justify putting forward the amount of cash required for the whole game, SPECIALLY with the 3DS sales being so low. Plus, the Prototype being out would make them even bigger assholes if they decided not to launch the main game, since they'd be under much more pressure. It was a lose-lose situation, and they just hoped fans didn't notice it was cancelled. Which didn't work as well. Now, they just have a tiny bit of drama ocurring. If they had released the prototype, they'd have to deal with removing it from the store, telling people it didn't work, having people [sonic slicer] about having the whole thing there and not trying, people using the tech demo to show how Capcom is unwilling to complete a game... it's a whole new box of [parasitic bomb] to deal with, something Capcom wasn't ready to handle. In their way, they did the smart thing. Even if they were the biggest jerks by waving a much-wanted product for over ten years in fans' faces.
While that is all true, I also think fans misinterpreted what Capcom meant when they said they where gonna judge if they should make L3 by the amount of heat the prototype generated. I think they literally meant hype, not sales. And they judged hype by the devroom. The hype for this game was no where near what it is now. If we had this kind of support back then, I think we would be playing the prototype right now. Truth is though, I don't think this was a fair way to judge anything, not everyone that was looking forward to this was interested in the dev room. Can't say I blame them, it wasn't very interesting.
TL;DR: We didn't beg enough.
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While that is all true, I also think fans misinterpreted what Capcom meant when they said they where gonna judge if they should make L3 by the amount of heat the prototype generated. I think they literally meant hype, not sales. And they judged hype by the devroom. The hype for this game was no where near what it is now. If we had this kind of support back then, I think we would be playing the prototype right now. Truth is though, I don't think this was a fair way to judge anything, not everyone that was looking forward to this was interested in the dev room. Can't say I blame them, it wasn't very interesting.
TL;DR: We didn't beg enough.
I'm kinda thinking they were going to cancel the game either way. Inafune quits, and right after, they cancel the game? The guy was the stone in their foot that they needed to bring the hammer down. After he left, two games which were not just his pet franchise, but aimed at FANS rather than sales, completely centered around the consumer and not just to get money?
Capcom was dying to being the hammer down on these things.
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I'm kinda thinking they were going to cancel the game either way. Inafune quits, and right after, they cancel the game? The guy was the stone in their foot that they needed to bring the hammer down. After he left, two games which were not just his pet franchise, but aimed at FANS rather than sales, completely centered around the consumer and not just to get money?
Capcom was dying to being the hammer down on these things.
Too true! Also, from a business perspective, it kinda makes sense to wanna cancel your rivals productions. He gets two games going and then leaves to start his own company? I would cancel his games too. What if he started them in an attempt of sabotage? Would you trust a guy who quit on you?
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Too true! Also, from a business perspective, it kinda makes sense to wanna cancel your rivals productions. He gets two games going and then leaves to start his own company? I would cancel his games too. What if he started them in an attempt of sabotage? Would you trust a guy who quit on you?
I don't really think it was that kind of angry manuever, but a bit more about making Capcom their own after he left, a bit for honor's sake. Since Keji left, we've seen a whole slew of bad decisions, and many of them based on the typical japanese style of controlling a business that he criticized in the first place. I'm thinking his way of thinking must've been because of Capcom's methods more than anything else.
EDIT:
http://www.gameblurb.net/news/capcom-refused-to-let-keiji-inafune-to-complete-mega-man-legends-3/
Reasons revealed. (at least I think, I can't load the damn page)
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So, I told them that I was going to found my own independent company and leave Capcom. However, I stated that I was ready to make a contract with them so that I could keep working on those projects that I started. I couldn’t start making contracts with other publishers for sure if Capcom agreed to the proposition, but I wanted to see those projects that I started to completion. But it couldn’t be done. They answered, ‘We have no need to do that.’
“[I went to the trouble of]…Finding the right time, gathering the team members, planning strategies, all so we could barely start on Mega Man Legends 3. I really don’t want to quit at this crucial moment…but I can’t keep going at Capcom. I am too tired to keep going. I wanted to leave Capcom to recharge my energy, and support Capcom from there, but it seems they don’t allow it. I want to make all my effort to keep Legends 3 alive, but I’m really not sure I can do it.”
Wow. That is just really depressing things to hear. Inafune himself wanted to take on the completion
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I don't really think it was that kind of angry manuever, but a bit more about making Capcom their own after he left, a bit for honor's sake. Since Keji left, we've seen a whole slew of bad decisions, and many of them based on the typical japanese style of controlling a business that he criticized in the first place. I'm thinking his way of thinking must've been because of Capcom's methods more than anything else.
EDIT:
http://www.gameblurb.net/news/capcom-refused-to-let-keiji-inafune-to-complete-mega-man-legends-3/
Reasons revealed. (at least I think, I can't load the damn page)
Yes, that makes more sense. I was thinking of American culture, not Japanese. Your dead on for Japanese.
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A [tornado fang]ing question of honor, then? Of "decency", maybe? The Capcom execs weren't really fond of the man who had created so many franchises for them and made them so much money, and they kept resisting his methods, because they believed, against all odds, that they knew how to run a company better than the man who pretty much made Capcom what it truly was/is. Mostly because he probably wanted to bring new innovative methods of running the place, and they were stuck in their traditional ways. So when he wanted to leave because he just couldn't [tornado fang]ing take it anymore... they took it as a betrayal. And made him leave. And then, they destroyed the projects he had worked so hard to create so they would still happen without him.
So basically, yeah. Inafune may be biased, but without Capcom manning up and explaining their side of the story themselves, I can only conclude that they cancelled Legends 3 out of spite, to put it bluntly, simply and without runarounds. Sad, really, but looks like people in power are like children when it comes to this kind of [parasitic bomb].
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Nintendo banked on originality back then.
They've been every bit as original over the last generation, though. It's just that we, the "core" audience, no longer take that originality to be aimed at us.
And I honestly think they saw their strategy backfiring with this. The prototype was ready, but I don't think decent demo sales, for that kind of price, would justify putting forward the amount of cash required for the whole game, SPECIALLY with the 3DS sales being so low. Plus, the Prototype being out would make them even bigger assholes if they decided not to launch the main game, since they'd be under much more pressure. It was a lose-lose situation, and they just hoped fans didn't notice it was cancelled. Which didn't work as well. Now, they just have a tiny bit of drama ocurring. If they had released the prototype, they'd have to deal with removing it from the store, telling people it didn't work, having people [sonic slicer] about having the whole thing there and not trying, people using the tech demo to show how Capcom is unwilling to complete a game... it's a whole new box of [parasitic bomb] to deal with, something Capcom wasn't ready to handle. In their way, they did the smart thing. Even if they were the biggest jerks by waving a much-wanted product for over ten years in fans' faces.
The problem with that is that the entire point of the Prototype was to provide a gauge as to whether or not the final game would be greenlit. So the fans, at least, knew that the Prototype was in no way indicative that the game would finish.
Hyper, what exactly do you mean by stopping the Devroom?
I mean that the Devroom, in theory at least, was supposed to provide a more open atmosphere to game development, and there are those within Capcom who didn't want that. Which is probably why 90% of the time, getting them to show anything actually relevant to Legends 3 was like pulling teeth. Gregaman goes on to make note of such people in his farewell post, as well. If there's one thing businesses value near as much as money, it's control. The Prototype version would have pushed the Devroom a lot harder, by people who likely wouldn't be satisfied with simply hearing about Kinako's favorite snacks.
See, the cancellation of the Prototype when it was effectively finished is what stands out to me. You can't say "they only care about money" when they backed out of a chance to make whatever return they could by that point (to say nothing of the complete and STILL CONTINUING absence of any competition on the e-Shop). And while there are surely Capcom execs pissed at Inafune, I don't think they'd empty their wallets to the point of paying for another 8-9 months of development for absolutely nothing. Legends isn't Universe; it didn't fall silent upon Inafune leaving. If it was simply to spite Inafune, Legends 3 would never have been cancelled any later than the February meeting.
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Killing the Devroom makes sense then I guess. Especially with how almost immediately they declared the Japan one would shut down.
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They've been every bit as original over the last generation, though. It's just that we, the "core" audience, no longer take that originality to be aimed at us.
If you consider Ferrarri dropping out of the racecar market and starting to make Volkswagens "original", then sure. Nintendo were really original with Wii Sports. Then made a crapload of sequels with other peripherals, which would ironically be some of the only games to ever use the Wii's controls to their full advantage.
The problem with that is that the entire point of the Prototype was to provide a gauge as to whether or not the final game would be greenlit. So the fans, at least, knew that the Prototype was in no way indicative that the game would finish.
I mean that the Devroom, in theory at least, was supposed to provide a more open atmosphere to game development, and there are those within Capcom who didn't want that. Which is probably why 90% of the time, getting them to show anything actually relevant to Legends 3 was like pulling teeth. Gregaman goes on to make note of such people in his farewell post, as well. If there's one thing businesses value near as much as money, it's control. The Prototype version would have pushed the Devroom a lot harder, by people who likely wouldn't be satisfied with simply hearing about Kinako's favorite snacks.
Fully agree with them wanting more and more control. What baffles me, is that they could have kept the Devroom going simply for PR reasons, to show they care about their fans. But they went full "evil company" when it comes to their image. They didn't try to justify or connect to the consumer in any way whatsoever, they just did it and left it to the blog people to handle the small things. I don't get it. It doesn't make any sense from a business perspective.
See, the cancellation of the Prototype when it was effectively finished is what stands out to me. You can't say "they only care about money" when they backed out of a chance to make whatever return they could by that point (to say nothing of the complete and STILL CONTINUING absence of any competition on the e-Shop). And while there are surely Capcom execs pissed at Inafune, I don't think they'd empty their wallets to the point of paying for another 8-9 months of development for absolutely nothing. Legends isn't Universe; it didn't fall silent upon Inafune leaving. If it was simply to spite Inafune, Legends 3 would never have been cancelled any later than the February meeting.
They couldn't make it seem as if Inafune was the only person keeping Legends 3 being made. The team carried on making the game, and they probably had to make up an excuse and try and make it seem as if the game wasn't going to work anyway, instead of throwing a huge baby fit right after he quit. They did that with Mega Man Universe. They probably just saw Legends 3 still being made a few months down the road, and went: "What's his crap still doing here?" I don't actually believe these execs pay any attention to the stuff within the company except for the sales market, what comes in and out economically.
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Sidenote/personal musing: For all the incessant bitchery in both Hollywood and the games industry about sequels, there is nothing inherently wrong with them. It is a matter of balance, not value. It would be just as wrong to never revisit an established character as it would to never create a new one.
People who look at a sequel, and devalue it on the full and sole grounds of it being a sequel (IGN did this a lot), need to remember that.
If you consider Ferrarri dropping out of the racecar market and starting to make Volkswagens "original", then sure. Nintendo were really original with Wii Sports. Then made a crapload of sequels with other peripherals, which would ironically be some of the only games to ever use the Wii's controls to their full advantage.
So originality is only original if it's aimed at people who actually want the same old [parasitic bomb]?
Which, BTW, on a Mega Man board, generally isn't considered a bad thing. Many of us have played the same game 11 times over in the Classic series, 8 of which were in an identical visual format.
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(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2927/whywouldyoudothat23571.jpg)
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I dunno, we're just evil.
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Sidenote/personal musing: For all the incessant bitchery in both Hollywood and the games industry about sequels, there is nothing inherently wrong with them. It is a matter of balance, not value. It would be just as wrong to never revisit an established character as it would to never create a new one.
People who look at a sequel, and devalue it on the full and sole grounds of it being a sequel (IGN did this a lot), need to remember that.
So originality is only original if it's aimed at people who actually want the same old [parasitic bomb]?
Which, BTW, on a Mega Man board, generally isn't considered a bad thing. Many of us have played the same game 11 times over in the Classic series, 8 of which were in an identical visual format.
I'm not really discussing the definition of originality as a whole, just how the quality and standards of the gaming industry really work around it. The Megaman franchise survived for a long time making series and milking as much as possible out of them, but the fact is, aside from a few new fans gained by some new series on the market, it's destined to never become the behemoth it once was unless it makes something new and amazing out of itself.
Like it or not, games are now an art form. But we're not taken seriously by other media forms in the least. Games stopped being portrayed as the thing geeks play in their basements, and started being portrayed as the things with explosions and guns that everyone plays in their spare time. But lately, many games have tried to change that. Be it stuff like Okami or Shadow of the Colossus, which are critic's darlings when it comes to defining art in games, or be it stuff like Limbo, Minecraft or Braid, which deal with gaming concepts in an experimental manner, for the experience of the player themselves. Gaming is in its infancy as an art form, and yet, it's become a commercial behemoth before it even began to have artists making it popular.
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Like it or not, games are now an art form. But we're not taken seriously by other media forms in the least. Games stopped being portrayed as the thing geeks play in their basements, and started being portrayed as the things with explosions and guns that everyone plays in their spare time.
Pretty common knowledge on this side of the world.
There are plenty of reasons that gaming as art is not taken seriously, but I don't think sequels have that much to do with it. Movies are regarded as art and they suffer the same criticism. The challenge is that a lot of outsiders just don't see past the technology. They don't see the lasting value of a 20-25 year old classic game (even though Nintendo cashes in on them on a regular basis) and they believe that all games are destined to be rendered inferior to their follow-ups.
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Pretty common knowledge on this side of the world.
There are plenty of reasons that gaming as art is not taken seriously, but I don't think sequels have that much to do with it. Movies are regarded as art and they suffer the same criticism. The challenge is that a lot of outsiders just don't see past the technology. They don't see the lasting value of a 20-25 year old classic game (even though Nintendo cashes in on them on a regular basis) and they believe that all games are destined to be rendered inferior to their follow-ups.
Thing is, if companies like Nintendo, behemoths of the business, started trying to make money out of new, more artistic, head-turning, clever games, things never tried before, that would help our business alot. Games like L.A. Noir get the attention of the media that we're trying to keep up with the Joneses, but you won't catch anyone other than nostalgia lovers with the old game cash-ins. There's a reason games like GTA appear on the news. They're controversial, just as much as movies were back then. With games, you can do so much more with interactivity, and that's what makes the general public so concerned, and the people in general so curious about these things.
Besides, movies may be struck with the same affliction, but not as much as games. Look at your shelf, or at any game store shelf, and try to identify how many of those games are completely new franchises. Now go to your local movie theater, or to your DVD rack, and count how many original movies there are. Original games can sell just as much as the biggest sequels, like the first Assassin's Creed and so many other games have shown. You just have to respect gaming as an art, and make the most of it for the benefic of the public.
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Game franchises do not carry the same level of redundancy as movie franchises. A movie exists solely to tell a story, all other aspects a means to that end. You finish a story, all is finished unless led to believe otherwise. Not so with games. Games are about interaction, and interaction, unlike story-telling, inherently begs the question of what can be done better. Further, a franchise does not necessarily dictate the type of interaction. Games like Kid Icarus: Uprising, and Kirby: Mass Attack are sequels, but as games, they are anything but unoriginal.
It's not as if Nintendo doesn't work with new franchises, either. Between the DS and Wii, they've published Endless Ocean, Disaster: Day of Crisis, Pandora's Tower, Another Code, Hotel Dusk, Nintendogs, Brain Age, The Last Story, Xenoblade, A Kappa's Trail, Wii Sports, and Steel Diver. But in terms of public perception, all of that is going up against arguably the most powerful and memorable back catalog in the industry.
Back to topic, Protodude's Rockman Corner posted some more recent comments (http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2011/09/additional-legends-3-comments-from.html) from Inafune about Legends 3.
It's mostly confirming what we could have guessed: That Inafune was literally fighting against Capcom to get the game started, that he knows the development staff was passionate, that he was hoping they could keep fighting without him, but that he's not sure that anyone has the nerve to stand up and be the point-man."
Basically the "father of MegaMan (guy who made the pre-existing NES sprites into character art)" is saying that the franchise needs a new figurehead. Here's hoping.
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Back to topic, Protodude's Rockman Corner posted some more recent comments (http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2011/09/additional-legends-3-comments-from.html) from Inafune about Legends 3.
It's mostly confirming what we could have guessed: That Inafune was literally fighting against Capcom to get the game started, that he knows the development staff was passionate, that he was hoping they could keep fighting without him, but that he's not sure that anyone has the nerve to stand up and be the point-man."
Basically the "father of MegaMan (guy who made the pre-existing NES sprites into character art)" is saying that the franchise needs a new figurehead. Here's hoping.
This would sort of beg the question if this whole thing was just a problem of it being Rockman DASH or if it was Rockman period. Inafune said some time ago that the only games getting greenlit at Capcom were sequels and he had to fight for Dead Rising to get released (or rather, he cheated them to get it out). So the question is, is Capcom not interested in producing anything Rockman related anymore period? There's new merchandise coming out which will bring in some new money from nostalgic fans etc, yet they don't want to get a new game on the way to solidify all that?
And his talk about the franchise needing a new figurehead, can there even be such a person? Would Capcom even allow that? We've been hearing the wildest tales like Capcom employees being only allowed to work on Rockman titles in their spare time, so can there even be a future for the franchise without a well-known, influencial senior like Inafune who always was the most vocal about Rockman inside the company? From all of this, I'm getting the feeling that Rockman went from Capcom's beloved mascot to being the red-haired stepchild of the company that no one wants anything to do with anymore.
Inafune has always been the vanguard for bringing out new Rockman titles, but lately it's all come crashing down, with and without him. Even before Inafune left, the franchise was in a dire situation. We haven't had a new ZX title in four years despite that cliffhanger ending, Shooting Star fell flat on its nose and despite the success of Rockman 9 and 10 on the DLC market, we haven't heard from anything new since. It sort of reminds me of Sonic's situation over at SEGA, except that SEGA has been producing some shitty to subpar titles these last few years, whereas Rockman is seemingly going into complete hibernation now it seems.
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We've been hearing the wildest tales like Capcom employees being only allowed to work on Rockman titles in their spare time
Rockman 2 you mean?
The first game didnt exactly sell the best. So when they wanted to make a sequel, Capcom allowed it as a side project to work on in their spare time.
I always felt Shooting star reached a satisfying conclusion, leaving the door open for further adventures. Subaru finaly finds his dad, happy ending.
I think we might get a "new Inafune" eventually. But i wouldnt expect someone like that to appear too soon.
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Game franchises do not carry the same level of redundancy as movie franchises. A movie exists solely to tell a story, all other aspects a means to that end. You finish a story, all is finished unless led to believe otherwise. Not so with games. Games are about interaction, and interaction, unlike story-telling, inherently begs the question of what can be done better. Further, a franchise does not necessarily dictate the type of interaction. Games like Kid Icarus: Uprising, and Kirby: Mass Attack are sequels, but as games, they are anything but unoriginal.
It's not as if Nintendo doesn't work with new franchises, either. Between the DS and Wii, they've published Endless Ocean, Disaster: Day of Crisis, Pandora's Tower, Another Code, Hotel Dusk, Nintendogs, Brain Age, The Last Story, Xenoblade, A Kappa's Trail, Wii Sports, and Steel Diver. But in terms of public perception, all of that is going up against arguably the most powerful and memorable back catalog in the industry.
It honestly isn't like that. A movie doesn't solely exist to tell a single story. Nowadays, characters have become franchises, and everything, from 80s shows, board games and old movies are getting remade into new Hollywood. Now, things have become about special effects, about showing off acting, about beautiful sceneries, about so much more than simply "tell a story". A cinematographic narrative isn't something straight and to the point, it's so much more complex than you're making it out to be. But games nowadays have BECOME an industry like Hollywood. With sequels being the only things on the shelf, and new things being far and few in between. Engines and different types of gameplay were rampant in the past, with everyone experimenting to see how they could become the next big thing. Nowadays, people just FOLLOW the big thing, trying to sell it. And yes, while I recognize that new kinds of gameplay are experimented with in the same old franchises, they just aren't willing to create something new for the people. And that's what scares me. They're willing to publish things, but not to make something themselves, as if their imagination has just stagnated.
Back to topic, Protodude's Rockman Corner posted some more recent comments (http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2011/09/additional-legends-3-comments-from.html) from Inafune about Legends 3.
It's mostly confirming what we could have guessed: That Inafune was literally fighting against Capcom to get the game started, that he knows the development staff was passionate, that he was hoping they could keep fighting without him, but that he's not sure that anyone has the nerve to stand up and be the point-man."
Basically the "father of MegaMan (guy who made the pre-existing NES sprites into character art)" is saying that the franchise needs a new figurehead. Here's hoping.
Kinda begs the question as to why Megaman isn't just SOLD OFF, while he's still relevant. Capcom obviously doesn't want it. Why not do it like Oswald The Lucky Rabbit, and sell it to someone else in exchange for some other franchise? They have no idea what to do with Megaman, and although they can still make money off merchandise, every year without new games is a year in which the franchise becomes more and more irrelevant to non-fans. Not only that, the franchise could have amazing results in the hands of any other company.
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Kinda begs the question as to why Megaman isn't just SOLD OFF, while he's still relevant. Capcom obviously doesn't want it.
Maybe Capcom doesn't think it would be spiteful enough. Why wash your hands of something when you can bury it entirely and ensure no one else can use it?
...seriously, I dunno why. If they ever sell the rights, and Comcept can't afford them, then I at least hope the new company will be one that'll listen to Mr. Inafune.
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Maybe Capcom doesn't think it would be spiteful enough. Why wash your hands of something when you can bury it entirely and ensure no one else can use it?
...seriously, I dunno why. If they ever sell the rights, and Comcept can't afford them, then I at least hope the new company will be one that'll listen to Mr. Inafune.
Thing is, Capcom isn't just a gigantic rage machine that throws away a lucrative thing out of spite. They probably keep it in order to SOME DAY use it again. Problem is, they're in no condition to be using it for quite some time, and aside from that, they could easily make quite some money by selling it to anyone who gives a crap.
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Rockman 2 you mean?
The first game didnt exactly sell the best. So when they wanted to make a sequel, Capcom allowed it as a side project to work on in their spare time.
I always felt Shooting star reached a satisfying conclusion, leaving the door open for further adventures. Subaru finaly finds his dad, happy ending.
I think we might get a "new Inafune" eventually. But i wouldnt expect someone like that to appear too soon.
wow i din`t know that......i wonder what was doing capcom back then...if megaman 2(a big hit) is a side proyect, maybe his main proyect weren`t as good as mm2, maybe they never forgive infune`s trollface after his succes...who knows
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Thing is, Capcom isn't just a gigantic rage machine that throws away a lucrative thing out of spite. They probably keep it in order to SOME DAY use it again. Problem is, they're in no condition to be using it for quite some time, and aside from that, they could easily make quite some money by selling it to anyone who gives a crap.
Mega Man is in the unfortunate position of being among the lowest regarded by Capcom in terms of new games, but at the same time ranking in among their strongest not only in merchandise, but in back catalog. Even setting aside the usual Japanese/corporate control pride that would likely forbid the idea anyway, they will not sell him off, even if they can't be assed to do anything with him.
How many other third-party re-releases could dethrone Link's Awakening DX (http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2011/09/dr-wilys-revenge-tops-eshop-charts.html)?
Saber's Sonic analogy hit a bit closer to home than I'd like to admit.
The "rights" are not going anywhere, for sure. What Capcom needs to do, I think, is to collaborate with another developer to dampen the risk to themselves. If nobody within the company can throw adequate weight behind Mega Man, then a business partner such as CyberConnect2 (http://www.siliconera.com/2011/07/22/cyberconnect2s-ceo-would-be-happy-to-work-on-mega-man-legends-3/) would be the way to go.
That, and we need to bang Nintendo's door down to get Mega Man into the next Smash Bros. Smash brought Fire Emblem to the west, and it revived Kid Icarus. It could go a long ways towards helping Mega Man.
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Mega Man is in the unfortunate position of being among the lowest regarded by Capcom in terms of new games, but at the same time ranking in among their strongest not only in merchandise, but in back catalog. Even setting aside the usual Japanese/corporate control pride that would likely forbid the idea anyway, they will not sell him off, even if they can't be assed to do anything with him.
How many other third-party re-releases could dethrone Link's Awakening DX (http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2011/09/dr-wilys-revenge-tops-eshop-charts.html)?
Saber's Sonic analogy hit a bit closer to home than I'd like to admit.
The "rights" are not going anywhere, for sure. What Capcom needs to do, I think, is to collaborate with another developer to dampen the risk to themselves. If nobody within the company can throw adequate weight behind Mega Man, then a business partner such as CyberConnect2 (http://www.siliconera.com/2011/07/22/cyberconnect2s-ceo-would-be-happy-to-work-on-mega-man-legends-3/) would be the way to go.
That, and we need to bang Nintendo's door down to get Mega Man into the next Smash Bros. Smash brought Fire Emblem to the west, and it revived Kid Icarus. It could go a long ways towards helping Mega Man.
They're basically living off the rights and merchandise, which is a typical strategy for them. Doubt they'll do anything with the property itself soon, but maybe someone within the company will grow a backbone. Maybe after Cyber Connect 2 wraps up Asura's Wrath, they'll ask if they can do something with Legends 3, and they'll work something out.
The Sonic analogy isn't really working IMO, because although Sega didn't know what to do with him for years, they certainly kept trying for new ways to do something. Ten bad years of games also adds to ten years of trying something new, trying new control schemes, main characters, art style, team redefinitions, staff, gameplay, level design... they recently settled on the Unleashed/Colors/Generations scheme, probably because they've sunk in enough cash into the Hedgehog Engine. Let's hope that doesn't lower the bar anytime soon. Sega KNOWS Sonic is a very important franchise for them, and they want to sink in enough money to make it work, not just as something that sells to the fans anyway because they know they'll buy it. But they don't want to be shown as a company that stops caring. Their PR is quite good, and they've shown they listen to fans with stuff like the Yakuza translation thing which went badly with 3 and was fixed with 4. Yakuza might be their main franchise in Japan, but Sonic's their main franchise in the world, and they do care about it. They want to make it relevant to everyone again.
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Right on. I meant that in more of a "public perception" than a "how the company is handling it" way.
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Yep. And I'll say it... I honestly think Megaman could use some soul-searching for a few years, even if that would result in a pile of crappy games, in an attempt to rediscover itself into a whole new way. Maybe he'd come out winning. He's certainly a much easier character to work with than Sonic when it comes to gameplay.
He could certainly go through the gameplay hoops that the Metroid franchise has gone through in the past few years.
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Hum, well... What's left that Megaman hasn't done? An RTS or a first-person shooter?
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Hum, well... What's left that Megaman hasn't done? An RTS or a first-person shooter?
FPS, RTS, TPS, a GOOD 3D platformer, racing, a more big arcade action focused 2D platformer ala Metal Slug or Gunstar, a brawler, a Metroidvania, a WRPG, a story-led choice game, a fighting game, any game with stealth mechanics, a schmup, a roguelike, an adventure game, a minigame collection, a second character spinoff, a sandbox mission-led game...
Tons of styles to explore, and within each style, a ton of gameplay styles to explore. But honestly, I was more talking about keeping the regular style people are familiarized with, while changing up the gameplay, the way Prime and Other M were different.
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Megaman has done racing, Though they should do it again, because Battle and Chase was so damn fun. A modern version would be sweet.
Ive also been waiting for a good 3D megaman platforming forever. I wish we would get one of those. Its certainly possible, but I would give it to an outside party to handle. I dont think Capcom could do it.
Say what one will about Sonic Team, at least theyve tried. again and again.
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Megaman has done racing, Though they should do it again, because Battle and Chase was so damn fun. A modern version would be sweet.
Ive also been waiting for a good 3D megaman platforming forever. I wish we would get one of those. Its certainly possible, but I would give it to an outside party to handle. I dont think Capcom could do it.
Say what one will about Sonic Team, at least theyve tried. again and again.
I know people count stuff like Legends (which I honestly count as an RPG/action/dungeon crawling hybrid) and the 3D parts in X7 (or was it X8?) as a 3D platformer. But I'm talking about straight platforming, the kind Mario 64, Sonic Adventure and Crash Bahdicoot do so well. Both Jak 2/3, Ratchet & Clank and Metroid/Other M have done 3D platforming with shooting in a wonderful manner, so it could work really well. Not only that, imagine the kinds of bosses that the series could have in 3D. The series is famous for its inventive bosses. Honestly, most of my favorite gaming boss fights have happened in 3D. I'd love to see Megaman take a shot at those.
And Sonic Team, I can't blame them. Sega requires a yearly Sonic, but they've learned too with these mistakes, even if the games are still being bought by fans regardless of quality, they still want to make them respectable. But Sonic has one of the toughest kinds of gameplay to work with, and they have tried alot of different things. Only when they settled on a single style, they could make it work. But for a team that has to churn out a whole game every year, I give them kudos for this.
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Legends isnt a Platformer. Its a 3D Action RPG/Dungeon Crawler.
X7's 3D segments are Platformers. But again, badly hindered by the [parasitic bomb] level design.
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Legends isnt a Platformer. Its a 3D Action RPG/Dungeon Crawler.
X7's 3D segments are Platformers. But again, badly hindered by the [parasitic bomb] level design.
I know people count stuff like Legends (which I honestly count as an RPG/action/dungeon crawling hybrid)
Which is what I said exactly.
Anyway, I kinda imagine a game like this, with more jumping, would be quite cool:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-wsiyf-5jY[/youtube]
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Oh [tornado fang], Flash, you brought up XBuster. The last time I saw that, the Planet servers were still up.
Shame the last I played, it was broken like crazy, because it would have been great if it were finished. But, Cutstuff's 8bit Deathmatch serves the same purpose, and that was pretty much released.
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The Xbuster Quake mod thing? Thats pretty much what I ALWAYS imagined a 3D Mega Man platformer looking like.
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I always asked myself why Capcom didn't just make a game like this. Just... a regular 3D platformer, like every single other company did with their 2D platformer franchises. I used to tell myself that fans just liked the 2D platforming without ducking or aiming up too much. Now I honestly just don't know.
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probably because the 2D kept selling well, and the 3D Legends bombed. So they skipped the 3D, and kept at 2D, until X7, where again they tried 3D, by integrating it with 2D. It failed. So back to 2D it was.
Command Mission was 3D, although not a platformer, but it probably didnt sell well or they didnt want to take the risk of trying 3D again, if there isnt a CM 2 or another 3D effort.
So they went 2D with X8. buuut, X8, and ZX2, didnt sell well enough, so the 2D began to stagnate. With no idea left on what to do, they figured a return to Classic's roots would be a welcome revival of the classic franchise.
then they made another one.
but apparently 10 didnt do well enough since we dont have 11.
And so we are where we are now, where Capcom doesnt know what the [tornado fang] to do with megaman and doesnt want to take the risk and try something. So they neatly fold him away and focus on merchandise instead. Until someone gets a lightbulb over their head and releases another megaman game, one which will be received as "FINALLY A NEW GAME" but which will probably be nothing all too special at all.
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But they never actually tried a 3D platformer. That's what confuses me.
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I suppose their baby-step of X7 was enough to discourage them. Although, frankly, a lot of X7's failings came from the inability to merge 2D and 3D properly. Had it been exclusively one or the other, it'd have been better, and I think the 3D was further along than the 2D. The only 2D segment worth a damn in the entire game is Stonekong's stage, and even that's pretty straightforward.
ZX got only a small taste of Metroid-vania and the public seemed to lose interest quickly. Fighting games, albeit in a very simplistic sense and a long time ago, were done in the arcades (re-released on Anniversary Collection).
As far as MegaMan needing to do something different goes, Legends 3 in and of itself is something that not only hasn't been done in a decade, but is unusually inaccessible for a classic game. In this age of re-releases and downloadables the Legends series is still nowhere to be found. That's what pisses me off about the Prototype; the sheer lack of competition on the 3DS would have been an outstanding opportunity to expand the audience. It is, or rather would have been, for all intents and purposes a new experience to much of the gaming populace.
But seeings how that ship has sailed, I think getting Rockman Online into the english-speaking world would be a good place to start. How many of us HAVEN'T been dreaming of multiplayer Mega Man since MM3 or so? A great deal of the fanbase was more excited about some Korean-developed game than they were about Universe, that says something, and if Capcom had any sense, they'd pay attention beyond just what to cancel.
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I suppose their baby-step of X7 was enough to discourage them. Although, frankly, a lot of X7's failings came from the inability to merge 2D and 3D properly. Had it been exclusively one or the other, it'd have been better, and I think the 3D was further along than the 2D. The only 2D segment worth a damn in the entire game is Stonekong's stage, and even that's pretty straightforward.
ZX got only a small taste of Metroid-vania and the public seemed to lose interest quickly. Fighting games, albeit in a very simplistic sense and a long time ago, were done in the arcades (re-released on Anniversary Collection).
As far as MegaMan needing to do something different goes, Legends 3 in and of itself is something that not only hasn't been done in a decade, but is unusually inaccessible for a classic game. In this age of re-releases and downloadables the Legends series is still nowhere to be found. That's what pisses me off about the Prototype; the sheer lack of competition on the 3DS would have been an outstanding opportunity to expand the audience. It is, or rather would have been, for all intents and purposes a new experience to much of the gaming populace.
But seeings how that ship has sailed, I think getting Rockman Online into the english-speaking world would be a good place to start. How many of us HAVEN'T been dreaming of multiplayer Mega Man since MM3 or so? A great deal of the fanbase was more excited about some Korean-developed game than they were about Universe, that says something, and if Capcom had any sense, they'd pay attention beyond just what to cancel.
True. They haven't been risking anything to begin with, so they don't change a single thing, even though it does have potential.
...are they even letting Megaman Online come true? Or have they kinda forgotten about it?
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It's been pretty quiet with the occasional update. Yeah, I know, that's not the most confidence-inspiring news given Mega Man's track record this year.
I don't believe they'll cancel it as they did the others, seeings how it's a joint project with Neowiz. However, last I heard, they're still iffy with whether or not they even want to release it in Japan. The game could still very well turn out Korean-exclusive. Despite a fair amount of publicity (well, how many other Korean games do we hear this much about?), there are no plans to release it elsewhere.
It'll be a damn shame if that doesn't change, 'cuz I'm sure fans of Command Mission will be watching the game like a hawk. What are the odds of Cinnamon, Ferham, Scarface, etc. seeing the light of day again?
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Not to mention it mixes Classic cast with X series cast.
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http://www.ustream.tv/channel/team-legends-wrap-up-live-from-nycc
For anyone interested.
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Thanks, Batty. The videos are a little tough to find admist all the flooding on Facebook.
(and it's awesome seeing my 'bot front and center on that wall 8) )
To add to the pile, check here at 1:11:21 for Dashe's interview with some guy hired two months prior:
http://ja.twitch.tv/capcomunity/b/297470584
Was supposed to be Seth, but a scheduling conflict reared its ugly head.
I'll be at the 'con myself tomorrow, so I ought to get to meet the gang then.
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So when are they gonna march up to the Capcom booth and put on that little show?
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Was about 3:15 today. We all marched, chanted, sang (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co6OHe4KaEc), did the Data-dance, and got a photo op with Seth Killian.
Somebody posted a YouTube video of the march, but they recorded ONLY the chanting, which kinda makes us look like a bunch of lunatics (well, even more of a bunch of lunatics than we already are). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBgH2sRL8kE
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Was about 3:15 today. We all marched, chanted, sang (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co6OHe4KaEc), did the Data-dance, and got a photo op with Seth Killian.
Somebody posted a YouTube video of the march, but they recorded ONLY the chanting, which kinda makes us look like a bunch of lunatics (well, even more of a bunch of lunatics than we already are). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBgH2sRL8kE
I just hope that rattled more cages than it seems. Capcom could use a damn wake-up call.
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I think we'd better take a look at this (http://www.facebook.com/notes/100000-strong-for-bringing-back-mega-man-legends-3/keiji-inafune-joins-mega-man-legends-revival-efforts/189266414480941)
mfw hearing this (http://prower42.deviantart.com/art/MFW-264319533)
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(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9vf7lTAEF1qdx0s9o1_500.jpg)
SUCH WORDS
NEVER GIVE UP THE FIGHT
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FPS, RTS, TPS, a GOOD 3D platformer, racing, a more big arcade action focused 2D platformer ala Metal Slug or Gunstar, a brawler, a Metroidvania, a WRPG, a story-led choice game, a fighting game, any game with stealth mechanics, a schmup, a roguelike, an adventure game, a minigame collection, a second character spinoff, a sandbox mission-led game...
Tons of styles to explore, and within each style, a ton of gameplay styles to explore. But honestly, I was more talking about keeping the regular style people are familiarized with, while changing up the gameplay, the way Prime and Other M were different.
FPS/Story-led Choice game = Super Adventure Rockman, Racer = Battle and Chase, Fighting = Mahvel vs Capcom, Schmup = Rush Marine/MMV Rush Adapter Segment.. Minigame Collection = WarioWare (Technically? There's a ton of Mega Man-Themed minigames so I guess capcom could release a pack..)
The list goes on. Half of those has been done already. ;)
Well, they've tried to go with the Super Sentai plot in ZX/Star Force.. although Star Force was more Super Sentai-ish plot wise, since they had everything that made a Super Sentai plot obvious and possible for an anime adaption.
I'd say we take the grimdark route.. but look what happened to Bomberman, but it's well worth the risk since gamers are growing out of the cute and cuddly phase.
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gamers are growing out of the cute and cuddly phase.
Which is why many of them like My Little Pony.
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And why Legends fans cling to Servbots as the most iconic and widespread series reference.
Funny, IGN just posted an article about how not to reboot MegaMan (http://ds.ign.com/articles/121/1210175p1.html). Unfortunately, Jonathan Drake is severely misinformed about his X6/X7 development stories, but I applaud the effort all the same.
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FPS/Story-led Choice game = Super Adventure Rockman, Racer = Battle and Chase, Fighting = Mahvel vs Capcom, Schmup = Rush Marine/MMV Rush Adapter Segment.. Minigame Collection = WarioWare (Technically? There's a ton of Mega Man-Themed minigames so I guess capcom could release a pack..)
The list goes on. Half of those has been done already. ;)
Well, they've tried to go with the Super Sentai plot in ZX/Star Force.. although Star Force was more Super Sentai-ish plot wise, since they had everything that made a Super Sentai plot obvious and possible for an anime adaption.
I'd say we take the grimdark route.. but look what happened to Bomberman, but it's well worth the risk since gamers are growing out of the cute and cuddly phase.
Many of those weren't even good. =P
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You ask me, Battle and Chase needs a reboot. That [parasitic bomb] was fun. But real short. A few more player characters wouldn't go amiss either.
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Which is why many of them like My Little Pony.
Well, there's an explanation for EVERYTHING, and MLP is just one of those things that appeased to nearly everyone, as they had a gun pointed to their heads by the fans.
Many of those weren't even good. =P
Yeah, but it gives capcom some time to look back on those and go the Sonic route, as many of those were a slightly risky chance at trying something new.
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Well, there's an explanation for EVERYTHING, and MLP is just one of those things that appeased to nearly everyone, as they had a gun pointed to their heads by the fans.
Yeah, but it gives capcom some time to look back on those and go the Sonic route, as many of those were a slightly risky chance at trying something new.
The reason MLP is so successful, is because it's one of the only franchises whose characters actually act like normal, intelligent beings. Few cute videogame franchises have even managed to do that. Heck, the only one that comes to mind is probably Jak & Daxter (nope, both Sly and Ratchet are either too comedy, or too classic-pastiche.) Mario and Sonic will probably never have a single game where they treat kids like normal human beings instead of children who are watching a story for the first time.
Also, it would have given Capcom a way to go the Sonic route if those games weren't just gambles from a far-gone age, and if Capcom wasn't so reticent to change anything in the GOOD WAY nowadays.
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The reason MLP is so successful, is because it's one of the only franchises whose characters actually act like normal, intelligent (?) beings. Few videogame franchises have even managed to do that.
Sam & Max~ <3
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The reason MLP is so successful, is because it's one of the only franchises whose characters actually act like normal, intelligent beings. Few cute videogame franchises have even managed to do that. Heck, the only one that comes to mind is probably Jak & Daxter (nope, both Sly and Ratchet are either too comedy, or too classic-pastiche.) Mario and Sonic will probably never have a single game where they treat kids like normal human beings instead of children who are watching a story for the first time.
Mario has so little dialogue that I don't think he's really applicable to that comment (besides maybe the fact that he's no longer allowed to use an axe to destroy a bridge). As for Sonic, I'll stick to the usual "Adventure 2 was golden" footnote. There was some great dialogue in that game.
I'd also say that plenty of "grimdark" games/characters either lack intelligence or fail to treat their audience as normal humans.
In terms of how it treats its audience, Mega Man can be all kinds of sloppy and silly, but outside of Zero1's localization I don't recall it ever being patronizing.
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I'd also say that plenty of "grimdark" games/characters either lack intelligence or fail to treat their audience as normal humans.
I second this (Cataclysm, blech). And I figured MMZ already went down the grimdark route (at least in relation to the other series).
Given a certain other Capcom reboot, though, I don't want them to reboot MM at all. Given all the sub-series, they could just make a new one. (Though that runs the risk of continuity-mucking...)
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I saw it, Prower. Just didnt say anything because I already saw it on prototdude's site.
Plus Objection's post pretty much sums up my reaction.
TBH Inafune joining the fight is pretty worthy front page news if you ask me.
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As for Sonic, I'll stick to the usual "Adventure 2 was golden" footnote. There was some great dialogue in that game.
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA
In relation to other INCREDIBLY corny and seriously derangedly retarded dialogue that other games usually seem to have... yes, it was decent. But it had few examples. While the rest was completely forced and really bad. Overexposition for kids, no interesting exchanges except for the Shadow/Rouge dialogue, and while some characters show little about what's happening while relying on simple events to follow it, others go "AMY IS WITH EGGMAN. I MUST RESCUE AMY. BECAUSE SHE IS IN DANGER. BECAUSE EGGMAN IS EVIL. GET IT KIDS?" Pretty much everyone behaves as if they were meeting for the first time, the awkward pauses and the crazy [parasitic bomb] that happens in certain parts of the dialogue is unforgivable.
But yes, it IS standard for videogame dialogue to be cringeworthy most of the time. The way I'm comparing it to MLP, is because MLP characters actually act like normal individuals. While Sonic, Mario and many other characters act like they're reading from a damn script, trying to act out a very badly-paid play written by high schooler fan fiction artists.
Let's compare some stuff:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4V5pKF7gyM&feature=related[/youtube]
Repetitious exposition, characters seeming like they want to show every single detail several times so that kiddies won't miss it, and don't leave any kind of logic to the people watching it. They address the audience, not each other. They are telling a story instead of talking.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD97UvLnluk&feature=related[/youtube]
See, here, you got JUST enough exposition without seeming like they're talking to the audience, plus, it's incorporated INTO the dialogue. They speak to the characters, and tell them what they need to know, while revealing their personalities and quirks and not devolving into simply exposition mouths.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwJ3gghVtVs[/youtube]
In comparison, this scene would be "WHY ARE YOU ACTING CRAZY AND NONSENSICAL WHEN YOU SEE THAT I AM SUFFERING IMMEDIATE DANGER FROM THIS FLOCK OF CREATURES PINKIE PIE? I AM RARITY AND I AM IN DANGER"
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Please tell me that someone other that OBJECTION MAN looked at my post...
RPM, please stop ignoring me... I'm not like that little [parasitic bomb] I was from years back.
(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/293/b/3/it__s_okay_by_prower42-d4dg8of.png)
It seems you're craving for some attention.
Unfortunately, you posting those images of the Touhoes, with badly put in captions on them doesn't help your cause.
Anyway.
This is really moving and all. That the fans can go so far for a sequel to a game.
On the other hand though, you just have to understand this is a lost cause. Whatever are the reasons for its cancellation REALLY were, it is no use trying to change what has happened. Capcom are really dicks right now, who focus mostly on Street Fighter. For now, I'm just waiting for them to [tornado fang]ing cancel Rockman Online at the last minute. Though it might be just me being a bit too paranoid.
Oh and lastly...
[spoiler](http://i.imgur.com/scNTx.jpg)[/spoiler]
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We don't have anything against cheerful personalities, just excessive fanwank. Just be yourself, minus all the chattiness about your favourite subject (outside of threads about that subject, anyway), and you'll slowly grow into the community.
EDIT: Oh, and image replies? Don't. This isn't an image board, you're expected to have content in your posts. At the same time, if you make a thread with your creations in the appropriate forum section, that's fine.
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We all remember how it went with Thanatos and his excessive Gurren Lagann quoting and such. Nice guy, but too much fanwank landed him a kick out the door.
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I... I don't get it guys. He posted that image about butthurt, but... was he implying that I AM butthurt?
Because I wasn't butthurt... not even close to it.
It's like... like, he was posting this image about himself. Because he's the one who seems butthurt (andcravingforattention).
In any case, I'm out of here because it's enough of a derailment as it is. : P
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Please tell me that someone other that OBJECTION MAN looked at my post...
RPM, please stop ignoring me... I'm not like that little [parasitic bomb] I was from years back.
(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/293/b/3/it__s_okay_by_prower42-d4dg8of.png)
I did, and it was sweet news, I just don't drool over Inafune as much as the rest of the internet, 'nor did I have anything significant to add.
*stuff*
I guess I should have clarified and said that SA2 covers both ends of the spectrum (but then, who needs to be told when they're supposed to [sonic slicer] about Sonic?). Sonic and Eggman have some pretty great dialogue, but there are a lot of cringe-worthy lines from the likes of Tails and Amy.
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I guess I should have clarified and said that SA2 covers both ends of the spectrum (but then, who needs to be told when they're supposed to [sonic slicer] about Sonic?). Sonic and Eggman have some pretty great dialogue, but there are a lot of cringe-worthy lines from the likes of Tails and Amy.
A few characters have decent dialogue. Rouge, for example, seems to have good lines overall, even though she probably has the least amount of speaking lines out of the entire cast. But it's a big difference between it and the rest of the entire game.
Surprisingly, the dialogue picks up a bit in the last story and it turns out passable.
...my problem with your comparison, was that you compared it (SA2 being one of my favorite games of all time, believe me, I have nothing but praise for it for the right reasons) to one of the greatest examples of writing in a kids' show that I have ever seen in my life. Sonic Adventure 2 may be good in an industry where most japanese games are given incredibly cringe-worthy dialogue I find unfitting to any culture, but compared to MLP, where comedy coexists with good characterization and really good behavior and dialogue from characters, it's [parasitic bomb]. Because in SA2, I don't really see any of the character's personalities beyond their onedimentionality, and the stuff they say when it's necessary. In MLP, I see the purpose each character fulfills, as well as them having their own place and influence in the world around them. I am able to find a well-weaved narrative and realistic characters in a god damn girls' show about pink magical ponies.
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Thta must be why pony fans love it so much, the writing is actually good and the characterization is strong not that I actually want to be a pony fan.
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A few characters have decent dialogue. Rouge, for example, seems to have good lines overall, even though she probably has the least amount of speaking lines out of the entire cast. But it's a big difference between it and the rest of the entire game.
Surprisingly, the dialogue picks up a bit in the last story and it turns out passable.
...my problem with your comparison, was that you compared it (SA2 being one of my favorite games of all time, believe me, I have nothing but praise for it for the right reasons) to one of the greatest examples of writing in a kids' show that I have ever seen in my life. Sonic Adventure 2 may be good in an industry where most japanese games are given incredibly cringe-worthy dialogue I find unfitting to any culture, but compared to MLP, where comedy coexists with good characterization and really good behavior and dialogue from characters, it's [parasitic bomb]. Because in SA2, I don't really see any of the character's personalities beyond their onedimentionality, and the stuff they say when it's necessary. In MLP, I see the purpose each character fulfills, as well as them having their own place and influence in the world around them. I am able to find a well-weaved narrative and realistic characters in a god damn girls' show about pink magical ponies.
I never made any such comparison to My Little Poly. You did. I repeated your adjectives in terms of character behavior (and yeah, I really need to exclude Tails and Amy from that thought), that doesn't mean I consider SA2's narrative comparable to MLP's on the whole. Admittedly, I've seen only the first episode of MLP, but comparing a game story to a TV series story is a bit of an uphill battle anyway, seeings how a video game narrative generally does not carry the same weight as a television narrative. For that reason I would prefer to keep discussions of video game story quality within the context of video games.
You know, we got to that discussion on the grounds of justifying how cute-and-cuddly atmospheres can trounce the dark/gritty ones. But really, Mega Man Legends in and of itself is one of the first and best examples I would think of in terms of intelligent video game characters that talk to each other and not their audience. Even something as trivial as a boss's weak point can lead to some amusing lines in those games (case in point: Marlwolf).
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I never made any such comparison to My Little Poly. You did. I repeated your adjectives in terms of character behavior (and yeah, I really need to exclude Tails and Amy from that thought), that doesn't mean I consider SA2's narrative comparable to MLP's on the whole. Admittedly, I've seen only the first episode of MLP, but comparing a game story to a TV series story is a bit of an uphill battle anyway, seeings how a video game narrative generally does not carry the same weight as a television narrative. For that reason I would prefer to keep discussions of video game story quality within the context of video games.
You know, we got to that discussion on the grounds of justifying how cute-and-cuddly atmospheres can trounce the dark/gritty ones. But really, Mega Man Legends in and of itself is one of the first and best examples I would think of in terms of intelligent video game characters that talk to each other and not their audience. Even something as trivial as a boss's weak point can lead to some amusing lines in those games (case in point: Marlwolf).
I was using it as the general basis for maturity, realism and overall personality in terms of gaming, after it was the only subject used. By following up the post and justifying the two franchises, you're undoubtly making the same comparison.
My problem with video game narrative, is how bad it can be if you stray far off from recent times, and even so, there are some recent VERY heavy examples of awful story. Not only that, but voices can be bad, there are awkward pauses, the camera angles are weird and the story and dialogue can be quite horrible sometimes. Aside from Hideo Kojima, there are few japanese developers who are as cinematically experient, sadly.
I would honestly compare Legends' plot and dialogue to a typical kids' anime. There's quite alot of exposition, tons of it actually, but there's quite a few character moments as well. It's far from anyone acting realistically, but it's a start.
I wish gaming narratives had higher standards. When I look at what's probably the best story in a game saga, Legacy of Kain, I see tons of exposition, but never unjustified. It's all wrapped in tightly with the plot, and the dialogue is extremely good. Amazing even, because all of it is relevant. You won't find any kind of "villain mocking and monologuing" moments by using the same "patheti~c!" adjectives we all know. Nor is there anyone simply acting like they're too cool for school by trying to be deep. All things have a purpose, and the expository opening for any new players does a fine job of bringing everyone up to speed, as well as being awesome. Amy Hennig is a genius.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNo-hfY-hKg&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
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I would honestly compare Legends' plot and dialogue to a typical kids' anime. There's quite alot of exposition, tons of it actually, but there's quite a few character moments as well. It's far from anyone acting realistically, but it's a start.
I saw nothing in your Jak & Daxter video that was any better. Even being unfamiliar with the game the exposition is still very obvious. Legends generally does a better job than that of letting the characters be who they are. And the Bonnes are about as three-dimensional as villains get, balancing their survival, their pride, and oddly enough their moral compass, thoughout most of the games, especially Legends 2.
In the series, Misadventures is probably the most guilty of excessive exposition, due to the majority of the game being about coming up with ransom money.
Gaming narratives are a whole other beast than TV/movies in that part of their inherent role is justifying the game's structure, or at the very possibly least keeping an appropriate pace with it. And inevitably there's always something in game structure that flies in the face of what a solid narrative-for-the-sake-of-narrative should be. If the narrative fails to tie to the gameplay properly, the game comes off as anticlimactic (case in point: Metroid Other M).
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I saw nothing in your Jak & Daxter video that was any better. Even being unfamiliar with the game the exposition is still very obvious. Legends generally does a better job than that of letting the characters be who they are. And the Bonnes are about as three-dimensional as villains get, balancing their survival, their pride, and oddly enough their moral compass, thoughout most of the games, especially Legends 2.
In the series, Misadventures is probably the most guilty of excessive exposition, due to the majority of the game being about coming up with ransom money.
Gaming narratives are a whole other beast than TV/movies in that part of their inherent role is justifying the game's structure, or at the very possibly least keeping an appropriate pace with it. And inevitably there's always something in game structure that flies in the face of what a solid narrative-for-the-sake-of-narrative should be. If the narrative fails to tie to the gameplay properly, the game comes off as anticlimactic (case in point: Metroid Other M).
Nope. Honestly, Jak & Daxter games have the quality of being as three-dimensional as they can get, with a kind of story that never strays too far away from a typical narrative, but characters keep building upon their personality and talk as anyone else would in their situation. While Legends never gets any better than say... a Digimon anime. I dunno if it's the translation's fault, or the fact that it's an old game, but it sounds as cookie-cutter and linear as it can be, and Tron's just the typical tsundere anime girl character. They just... stand there and fit stereotypes, and spit out the same old tired anime dialogue we see in every anime ever. It's not bad, it's just derivative, the same as every other game out there, and it's not INTERESTING.
It's a trend in games. In any other kind of media, that type of story just wouldn't be recognized as anything amazing. And it's not about being different beasts, it's about a story being able to fit the game well. It's about writers recognizing that they have to work with the programmers, the same way movie writers work with the directors. They have to know what kind of storyy to write, in what structure and in what way. If you look at a story like Portal, you'll see an AMAZING narrative that fits the genre perfectly. Same with Deus Ex, for example, or Alan Wake. These are examples of story being a part of the game, and not just something to accompany the game. The story's made FOR the events of the game, and fits in perfectly with the gameplay mechanics.
In games like Sonic and Mario, story isn't necessary. It's an excuse to get you into the action. None of the scenarios even fit what should turn out in the story, so games that have little story to begin with benefit from it. Level design doesn't really accompany what should have been set in the story, and there's a clear distinction between the game world and what happens in the story.
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I don´t think you quite get what Legends is and is meant to be. As derivative as you may consider it, it captures an undeniable light-hearted charm with immense underlying depth. The world of Legends is one of many facets, all seamlessly transitioned and perfectly integrated: from the soothing tranquility of the overworld to the oppressive atmosphere within the ruins, from the wacky comedic antics of the cast to the epic climax of the story. Very few other series, if any, have captured this like Legends did.
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I don´t think you quite get what Legends is and is meant to be. As derivative as you may consider it, it captures an undeniable light-hearted charm with immense underlying depth. The world of Legends is one of many facets, all seamlessly transitioned and perfectly integrated: from the soothing tranquility of the overworld to the oppressive atmosphere within the ruins, from the wacky comedic antics of the cast to the epic climax of the story. Very few other series, if any, have captured this like Legends did.
Yes, it is the greatest masterpiece ever composed by humanity, how could I forget?
It's a [tornado fang]ing 90s lighthearted anime for kids. Get over it. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's basic, and if you think it's an example of narrative genius, I feel sorry for you.
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It´s not about being any sort of masterpiece of narration, it´s about being exactly what it is meant to be. A "90's lighthearted anime for kids," ok, I wouldn't want it any other way. Being "basic" is not a fault here, it's a charm.
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Very much agreed. This discussion seems to keep jumping back and forth on what grounds we're gauging a story by. Is it an epic masterpiece? Are its characters intelligent? Are its characters free from stereotype? Those are three completely different questions.
My Little Pony has intelligent characters. Its story is not an epic masterpiece, nor is it meant to be by any means. Many of its character types exist in countless shows/stories; that doesn't matter (tropes are tools (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools)), what matters is that MLP does them well.
So Tron Bonne is a tsundere, so what? Why shouldn't she be, how else is a teenage pirate going to handle a crush on the hero? Besides, that's not her defining characteristic; her loyalty to her brothers supersedes her feelings for Trigger (seen very clearly in L1 when the Gesselschaft is destroyed).
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It´s not about being any sort of masterpiece of narration, it´s about being exactly what it is meant to be. A "90's lighthearted anime for kids," ok, I wouldn't want it any other way. Being "basic" is not a fault here, it's a charm.
The way you described it as, and the words you used, made it the most stuck-up description of a game I have ever seen in my life. It's a lighthearted anime game. Japan churns out tons of them a year. Story-wise and ambient-wise, it's got hundreds of the same JRPG characteristics you've seen in many, many other games. Even with the obligatory "I don't love you baka!" and shower scene peek stereotypes.
Very much agreed. This discussion seems to keep jumping back and forth on what grounds we're gauging a story by. Is it an epic masterpiece? Are its characters intelligent? Are its characters free from stereotype? Those are three completely different questions.
My Little Pony has intelligent characters. Its story is not an epic masterpiece, nor is it meant to be by any means. Many of its character types exist in countless shows/stories; that doesn't matter (tropes are tools (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools)), what matters is that MLP does them well.
So Tron Bonne is a tsundere, so what? Why shouldn't she be, how else is a teenage pirate going to handle a crush on the hero? Besides, that's not her defining characteristic; her loyalty to her brothers supersedes her feelings for Trigger (seen very clearly in L1 when the Gesselschaft is destroyed).
My point is completely different. Listen next time. Stereotypes and intelligence notwithstanding, I'm talking about simple narrative, dialogue and characterization. IN MLP, each character has to be stuck with a single liking/characteristic, as per the series' concept. But that doesn't make them any less limited. They talk normally and like any other person would. Something that is very tough to achieve with any other kids' show, specially one of that kind.
And tropes are not building blocks. They're characteristics of common shows that people started noticing, and started including as a list. There are good ways to use characteristics commonly used in stories and there are bad ways to use them. MLP's characters are founded in stereotypes, but they actually grow from that, and are given new development in almost every episode. Legends is a JRPG in terms of story. I've never said that was bad, but it's not the shining bright example everyone says it is. It's merely ANOTHER game in the endless waves of new japanese JRPGs every year.
(TV Tropes is mostly bullshit, with whiny kids arguing stuff that is a matter of perspective rather than a matter of actual fact. I've spent some time in it, and although we can list a "trope" as something factual, please don't use that site to get any kind of evidence other than people arguing that Count Chocula from the G1 cereal box was scarier, and crap like that. It's like manchild central in there.)
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How long will you guys keep on with this?
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The forum's dead and there's nothing else to do. There's only so many times I can go back in time, give time machine blueprints to my younger self and then have anal before it becomes boring. So I argue with Mr Right Analogless there for fun.
Now I'm a go to my kitchen and make some delicious codfish balls.
(http://www.maria-brazil.org/newimages/bolinho_de_bacalhau.jpg)
Why? Because I'M BORED AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE! (movie/media buffs will get it)
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And tropes are not building blocks. They're characteristics of common shows that people started noticing, and started including as a list. There are good ways to use characteristics commonly used in stories and there are bad ways to use them.
You just repeated the exact same point that I supplied to you and reworded it to give the illusion of a counter.
MLP's characters are founded in stereotypes, but they actually grow from that, and are given new development in almost every episode. Legends is a JRPG in terms of story. I've never said that was bad, but it's not the shining bright example everyone says it is. It's merely ANOTHER game in the endless waves of new japanese JRPGs every year.
Your over-simplified analysis of Tron and your failure to defend it suggest that you're looking at Legends from a first-glance perspective. From that same perspective, one cannot possibly defend MLP on the grounds that you have, as the strengths you have presented require a fairly intimate understanding of the show to notice, and the shaky/vague criticisms that you have presented against Legends could just as easily be applied to MLP from those who had only a limited understanding of it.
You're preaching what you know, and I can't fault you for that, but it's a clear reason that this discussion isn't going to go anywhere.
How long will you guys keep on with this?
Well, let's see...
IN MLP, each character has to be stuck with a single liking/characteristic, as per the series' concept.
...one of the greatest examples of writing in a kids' show that I have ever seen in my life.
it´s about being exactly what it is meant to be.
Nah, we're pretty much done. What follows is just boredom.
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When you quote this:
IN MLP, each character has to be stuck with a single liking/characteristic, as per the series' concept.
And forget to quote this:
. But that doesn't make them any less limited. They talk normally and like any other person would. Something that is very tough to achieve with any other kids' show, specially one of that kind.
Ends the argument with the fact that I can't reason with you, due to you replying to only what suits your interests, and conveniently forgetting the "But..." in my argument, countering the simplicity in the show.
I'll just finish this by saying: I played Legends. Nice game. Not a big deal in terms of story. Just like any kids' anime. MLP? Excuse me by saying it works a little better than that. And yes, around 5 episodes or so, and not repeated viewings.
Honestly, Legends gets too much of a reputation for its own good. It's with stuff like this that I sometimes think Capcom was right in throwing it down the shitter.
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How long will you guys keep on with this?
Call me when it's over.
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I'll just finish this by saying: I played Legends. Nice game. Not a big deal in terms of story.
How about, you know, part 2?
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How about, you know, part 2?
Same. Story just gets bigger and the world doesn't seem as fun.
Nothing to call home about, just a standard, good game.
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When you quote this:
And forget to quote this:
Redundant in the presence of Zan's quote, which if you didn't notice, is applicable to both sides of the discussion.
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Redundant in the presence of
Presence of what?
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When I thought to myself and wished there would be more Megaman discussions on RPM, this isn't exactly what I had hoped for.
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*fish jumps*
It's over.
Otakus and Geeks posted an interview (http://www.otakusandgeeks.com/2011/10/interview-with-team-behind-100000.html) with the crew behind NYCC's Get Me Off The Moon booth. Good read for anyone wanting to crawl into the heads of the more civil fans out there. Unfortunately nondescript videos tend to attract people who just assume that L3 supporters are out there to troll Capcom's other franchises.
Speaking of which, the Facebook group has been for quite some time teasing the reveal of someone else connected to L3 (besides Inafune) joining the group. Quite a gutsy move if it's true, considering what happened to Yoshiyuki Fujikawa.
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considering what happened to Yoshiyuki Fujikawa.
What happened? What did I miss here?
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When he announced his support of the fans, his twitter closed.
http://www.rockmancorner.com/2011/07/mega-man-legends-3-programming-director.html
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FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
WTF
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Kinda makes you mad doesn't it?
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HAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA. He got in trouble for THAT? Oh Capcom...
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Well, in all fairness, we don't know if he was in trouble or if he retracted the comment out of paranoia. The whole thing was hush-hush (not unlike the game's cancellation itself). However, as they say, what was seen on the internet cannot be unseen.
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I dont think he would CLOSE his twitter rather than delete the post.
Especially if he had the balls to give the fans his support in the first place.
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I'd forgotten about that. I just hope CoJ didn't boot anyone else for trying to support the fans.
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So, the final number is in. Freakyforms came out this week. What does that mean? It's the first ever video game exclusive to the 3DS e-Shop, thanks to Capcom. They gave up a five month monopoly on the service.
Nice.
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Honestly, Legends gets too much of a reputation for its own good. It's with stuff like this that I sometimes think Capcom was right in throwing it down the shitter.
Hm. I guess that's fair to say, but the Legends games were what they were, and a lot of people liked them for it. You're right, though. The story's not groundbreaking or anything. It was just a pleasant videogame. I wouldn't say Capcom is right because people overestimated it, though. I'd say they were wrong for underestimating it back in the late 90s. Despite being considered a "greatest hits" on Playstation (arguably meaningless compared to close-to-million sellers though), it wasn't strongly advertised outside of Japan. Only commercials I'd ever seen for the first game are Japanese, and I'm not sure when and how often they'd have aired over there. Then there's magazine exposure and demo discs. I'm not saying the game is perfect, but I am saying it deserved more exposure and would've benefited Capcom in the long run.
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Mega Man in general could use more exposure. Until they make a title that has deeper game play and immersion, AND better advertising, Mega Man will always be niche and obscure.