RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => Topic started by: Cyberpunk on April 01, 2009, 03:42:34 PM
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Let me start this off with stating a little bit of my history. I'm a 26-year old male. I have been playing the Rockman games since the very first one wriggled its way onto the 8-bit NES. I fell in love with the entire game series and everything that made it up. I have played & beaten every Rockman game that has emerged out of sheer loyalty. I even ran a sprite website for a small amount of time under the guise of "Solaar".
I am in no way, shape, or form, what most people call... a n00b.
What I am, however, is pissed the [tornado fang] off. What primarily attracted me to the games is the ongoing storyline between them. And when all the mystery about unseen events came up, I eagerly awaited the startling revelations and closure. That was around the time of RMX4. Needless to say, I have been throughly let down.
Every single game that has come out either has had nothing to do with the ongoing story, or only introduced more questions and resloved nothing. Oh, don't get me wrong. Some games that have come out have been nothing short of spectacular. But everytime I see another "Shooting Star Rockman", a classic game ported to a Cell Phone, or indeed, A GAME THAT RETREATS TO OLDER GRAPHICS AND BOLD-FACEDLY STATES IT WILL NOT FURTHER THE STORYLINE, I cry a little on the inside. Actually, I cry a lot. Of course I don't want to play these, Crapcom. What kind of Pokemon-loving, fad-following, intelligence-deficient drool-dispenser do you think I am?
I would like it to be known that I am in no way reffering to anyone on these boards as such things mentioned above. I have a lot of respect for everyone here, as I've been acquainted with one or more of you before. What I am saying is that we're being played. Blatantly. Shamelessly. In the face. I know that all of you are probably saying, "Well of course Capcom is doing this; it makes them money!" Yes, I know that. But I also know that there's only so much of this BS we should tolerate before we rush Crapcom HQ and electro-shock everyone.
It's one thing to be loyal to something. It's another thing to smile and grit your teeth after another year goes by, having to endure big Rockman blue-bomber balls. If we, as the fans, put our minds together, we could think of something to get through to these so-called game developers.
Just something to think about.
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I kinda get where your coming from, but...
X7 and 8 actually have plenty to do with the storyline.
now, not presenting it as beautifly and rich as in X5 and 6, thats another story, what with X7's still scenes about Axls boring life, and a few on red and Sigma, and with X8 having all story presented on the stage select screen rather than in cutscenes. Since they didnt want to use stills, and didnt want to make extra animated ones.
I kinda get where your coming from tho.
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I would prefer if the games furthered the storyline, but I'll buy them regardless as long as I still enjoy playing them.
After MM9 I've found that that last is wearing mighty thin.
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I would prefer if the games furthered the storyline, but I'll buy them regardless as long as I still enjoy playing them.
After MM9 I've found that that last is wearing mighty thin.
Megaman 9 is the most supreme :)
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Cute. That's all I'll give it.
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Of course I don't want to play these, Crapcom.
Others do though. Some people don't give a rats ass about the story, and simply want to play the game. Some people like the Starforce games, others don't play them. Some people like MM9, others don't. Therefore, this point...
If we, as the fans, put our minds together, we could think of something to get through to these so-called game developers.
...is pointless, being that nerds can very very VERY rarely agree on anything. At all. Ever. It's why I never go to Comic Book Forums, because there's absolutely no pleasing those people. Nerds will always find something to complain about, no matter what.
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I play anything as long as I enjoy playing it in the first place. ^^
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Um, yes, of course, but he's saying he doesn't enjoy them much because of their failing story..
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Heh, if you're playing MegaMan games for story, then I'm sorry! XD
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A GAME THAT RETREATS TO OLDER GRAPHICS AND BOLD-FACEDLY STATES IT WILL NOT FURTHER THE STORYLINE,
R9 furthered the storyline and deepened the series a lot. What it didn't do is END the storyline. Why does Rockman need an ending anyway? Why do we need to get so close to X and ZERO when they're so much more that can be told?
Also, those older graphics have an immense beauty in their simplicity. For this time, the return to the old brought about immense nostalgia, charm, amazingly stylish music and most of all, to the point fun gameplay.
"Shooting Star Rockman"
a classic game ported to a Cell Phone
Why do you complain? It's not interfering with the creation of new games in the main Rockman universe. In fact, EXE saved Rockman by earning Capcom enough money to keep going with both. Cellphone games are trying to create interest in the series amongst the Japanese. And SSR is trying to retain the fanbase that they created with EXE now that japanese sales for both the main and secondary universe have been declining steadily. What's killing Rockman is not Capcom, but people bitching and moaning all the time over every single thing they do, nobody never seems satisfied.
Now finally, Capcom hit a gold mine with Rockman9, simple, effective, high quality and immensely popular. And you want to complain about that too? Sure, maybe Capcom will drive it into the ground by making R10 and R11 like that in rapid succession, but that hasn't happened yet. This is still a want time thing, so what's the issue?
What I am, however, is pissed the [tornado fang] off. What primarily attracted me to the games is the ongoing storyline between them. And when all the mystery about unseen events came up, I eagerly awaited the startling revelations and closure. That was around the time of RMX4. Needless to say, I have been throughly let down.
I'm quite sure ZX and ZX Advent provided us with a million and one answers about the ongoing storyline, all the way from classic to DASH. But that's apparently not what you want. Want you want is that elusive Rockman to RockmanX connection. Well, I've already expressed I see no point in ending Rockman, nor do I see a point in the X-series messing with the spirit of classic Rockman by answering those question. Capcom's choice to not answer that is an understandable one. Still, they provided plenty of things for us to figure out what could have happened. After all, we have a two points in time, the bridge always exists in some fashion, even if it's in small possibly unintended facts. Capcom wants us to use the worlds they created and imagine these things for ourselves.
In terms of the X-series providing closure within itself. Well, we originally had X5. Those events alone provide closure, whilst 'providing the means to imagine' in all the mysteries that deliberately exist. There are reasons why and all sourcebooks to this date speak vaguely about the matter of Wily, even though it's all well known fact. Maybe after X5, they would have released a book revealing the truth about the matter. But the X5 team felt there was much more they could do with the series, so that closure was overwritten with a new start. Which is a noble thing, Alia became a much deeper character, one of the greatest characters in the series was introduced and Isoc was there to open all our eyes about the mysteries of the world.
And now we are where we are now. I can't say why it seems the series went in a completely different direction, but they obviously have a plan. When they made X7, they knew where they wanted to go and they knew the ZERO-series was the goal. As X9 was intended, but never made. It is unfair to judge the progression of the X-series based on what it still incomplete. X8 revealed things that change our entire perception of the plot, and IHX shows us there's definitely a coherent whole to be found. People just need to find that acceptance, the patience, and the willingly to figure it all out for themselves.
For any other closure you might want, go play the ZERO-series and read ZERO Complete Works.
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Zan more or less said everything I could ever want to say. I'm so sick of people wanting to connect the Classic series to the X Series. Doing so puts a stop to it when there's so much more to be done. We have a scene from the second arcade game that shows Zero, thats all we need. Thats enough connection right there, plus Light being in the X Games.
The X Series I'm a bit different on because of its multiple attempts at closure or some other nonsense, but if they hit that gray area where its like "Is X really the almighty word on whats right", theres all sorts of fun.
Except for Sigma's really lame death :(
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All the talk about old graphics, immense beauty, simplicity, nostalgia, stylish music and top-the-point fun classic gaming made me so orgasmically happy~ >U< </wii>
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R9 furthered the storyline and deepened the series a lot.
I don't feel it furthered the storyline much. Storyline remains where it was before, even if we now have an important moral question in there. Now if we had seen more of what characters thought of the whole issue, that'd be character development.
Also, those older graphics have an immense beauty in their simplicity. For this time, the return to the old brought about immense nostalgia, charm, amazingly stylish music and most of all, to the point fun gameplay.
Werrlll... I do prefer the NES sprite of Mega to any other I've seen. Perhaps because it's more generic, and lets you see what you want to see, while the detailed SNES versions make him kinda dorky.
But the gameplay, too simplistic. Shallow, even. Devoid of depth, providing only breadth with the robot master weapons.
Also I dunno if breadth is a real word.
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I don't feel it furthered the storyline much. Storyline remains where it was before, even if we now have an important moral question in there. Now if we had seen more of what characters thought of the whole issue, that'd be character development.
In classic terms, the progression of time in itself is furthering the storyline. Then we have the introduction of new characters on the side of good. Forte's adjustments. And with Wily's apology leading to prolonged peace and settling down, we created a setting in which we can allow retro-esque games like Battle and Fighters in a post R8 time.
The world itself was richened by the new law, the mass production and loss of individuality for unique robots. And we finally got a bit of insight into law enforcement in the series and how it can be abused by the likes of Wily.
Classic games aren't about telling a deep story, it's about creating a setting that provides the materials to imagine. All the Rockman-series have this, but it's most profound in classic. For the elements of the setting to come together in a good plot, you need to read things like MegaMix, or imagine it yourself. And really now, we should all be able to imagine how Blues, for instance, would react to the new robot law.
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Oh yes, it's certainly the right style for Classic, which they've used for some time now. I just don't like the style, is all.
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I'm all for imagination and fantasy, they rule, but when you let fans go loose you get stuff like "Roll/Bass/Rush/Blues/Dr. Light are actually Zero!". Or the cataclysm.
There's a limit to anything.
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Your imagination is to be based around the facts, otherwise, they might as well not make a story and just let you go wild. They're giving you all these things, so base it around that.
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Everyone has their own opinions about things and this is exactly what I hoped would happen: Disucssion. ^_^ I have certainly enjoyed playing all the Rockman games, I just kinda wished we were given at least some hint as to what happens in between series(es?) I think the Elf Wars could make an excellent new series, myself. And I'm sorry, I just don't see how ZX connects to Dash.
For the elements of the setting to come together in a good plot, you need to read things like MegaMix, or imagine it yourself.
...I think I'll do just that.
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For classic to X and ZX to DASH, you want one or two walls of text?
I'll say this much to begin with.
Project Haven = Project Heaven
Elysium = Heaven
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I just kinda wished we were given at least some hint as to what happens in between series(es?) I think the Elf Wars could make an excellent new series, myself. And I'm sorry, I just don't see how ZX connects to Dash.
Repeat after me:
Capcom makes it up as they go along.
Originally, Legends was an alternate universe; then came along .EXE. Capcom made a 180 turn and claimed that Legends was the distant future of Classic and X. (Or so Gauntlet tells me) What does that tell you?
Me, it tells me that WE care a lot more about the story than THEY do, Zan's MM9 example notwithstanding.
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I feel your pain. It really used to bother me that Capcom didn't properly tie up loose ends (this was a few years ago while the EXE series was midway). So I looked at the tail ends of the classic (my faorite series) and just .... gave it the ending I wanted. Compelte fan fiction / art, but it satisfied me. Scratched that itch. You should definately try it, if only so you can get past the frustration you feel.
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What I am, however, is pissed the [tornado fang] off.
That sounds reasonable.
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That sounds reasonable.
Sounds disturbing..anyway have you ever play all megaman series......including like EXE & Star Force, these are alternative timeline but mostly several fan like them, although everybody hate this "battle chip" style except me, i rather playing all Megaman series especially X7, bad graphics but it's fun to play :). Megaman connection X also important too, after Capcom confirm Megaman X5 was final chapter, it's nearly pissed me off :( but Capcom need fixed Megaman X's storyline if Keiji Inafune planned making new series or chapter.
As for Megaman 9, it's fan-demand really wanted to feel nostalgia again :).
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Originally, Legends was an alternate universe
There's no evidence to this. From the get go DASH was established in a far future world that's flooded and filled with ruins because it has a history of endless war preceding it. The very title of "halcyon" days implicates that the prosperity and peace of the times is unique compared to that of the past. All of this goes along with the connection between quantum refractors and energen crystals, reavered and mechaniroids, Purge Official and Irregular Hunter, Irregulars and... Irregulars.
Really, the only basis for your claim is the use of "Rock" and "Roll" and other cute little throwbacks. DASH is very different from EXE, which from the very first moment was said to be in 200X with a setting in contradiction to the other story of 200X.
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There is no story.
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As far as storylines go, the Zero and the ZX series have both satisfied me, for now.(Well, I would like the ZX serie to continue though)
I'd rather worry more about the franchise if the gameplay and music were starting to get less good.
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Heh, if you're playing MegaMan games for story, then I'm sorry! XD
One of the most sensible opinions in this thread. Honestly, Megaman game story lines are a joke at best. They have holes, things left unexplained and they jump time lines way too much FOR there to be anything to make sense. A good story is from point A, to B, to C, to D. Not A, to C, to O, to Cinnamon Toast crunch. >_> If you want a story that makes sense, pick up a book, not a Megaman game.
Also, I disagree HIGHLY with Zan there, due to the thought that MM9 furthers the storyline. Uh.... no. It said that robots expire, time passed, and Megaman can't use the slide anymore. That's not character development. It was like Final Destination the movie but for Megaman. You are NOT there for the plot, you are not there for the character development. (Which it also lacks) You're there to blast bots in a fun game.
And to Cyberpunk, I'll tell you what Jay Sherman told the world. "If people would stop going to see bad movies, they will stop making bad movies. If the movie stinks, just don't go." In that sense, nerds themselves are the ones to blame for some of the...subpar Megaman games put out from MM EXE 4-6 to StarForce. If the game is terrible, just stop buying them and the company will get it and say "Oh. People aren't buying this. They don't like it." And they'll either A) Put out a better and improved version (This is PROVED by Devil May Cry 2's suckyness and Devil May Cry 3's non sucky-ness.), B) They won't make anymore of the series. And that would just be the end of it, and the nerds will have nothing to [sonic slicer] about. Or C) Stupid company is stupid and puts out something that sucked all around anyways, because they are stupid.
This has been done with Evergrace. It sucked, people knew it. The company knew it, people didn't WANT Forever Kingdom, but stupid company put out game anyway. Why it not make moneys?! :O
So if you want a better game of something, the only thing you can do is NOT buy what sucks, the numbers will show to the company, and they will focus on what is good... Or they'll be all like "Oooooh. Sphere black ball sparkle. Why rope ontop of it disappearing? *BOOOM!* IT AM SPARKLE! AHHHHH!"
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Also, I disagree HIGHLY with Zan there, due to the thought that MM9 furthers the storyline. Uh.... no. It said that robots expire, time passed, and Megaman can't use the slide anymore. That's not character development. It was like Final Destination the movie but for Megaman. You are NOT there for the plot, you are not there for the character development. (Which it also lacks) You're there to blast bots in a fun game.
Mega not having Sliding or Charge Shot is not a part of the story. that's a gameplay mechanic. it's exactly the same thing as Mega not having Rush Coil in MM6, MM8 and MM&B.
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Uh. Not sure if you noticed (Which you didn't >_>), but I wasn't being serious about that part.
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i don't think anyone could have noticed that. you gotta learn to mark sarcasm better.
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Also, I disagree HIGHLY with Zan there, due to the thought that MM9 furthers the storyline. Uh.... no. It said that robots expire, time passed, and Megaman can't use the slide anymore. That's not character development. It was like Final Destination the movie but for Megaman. You are NOT there for the plot, you are not there for the character development. (Which it also lacks) You're there to blast bots in a fun game.
What's so hard to understand about what it means for a CLASSIC game to further the storyline? The mere fact that we're blasting bots again is furthering the storyline! It's never about development, it's about creating a fun game in a fun setting that will make you imagine new stories and want to play new games. Think more like a kid, dream of new highly enjoyable adventures against the evil Dr. Wily and fight for everlasting peace!
MM EXE 4-6
Disregarding the fact that both EXE5 and EXE6 were great? 4 would be too, if it wasn't so bloody random.
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The classic series has a story. It's just that things don't get resolved.
- In MM3 Proto's introduced.
- In MM4, Proto betrays Wily by saving Kalinka (apparently Wily didn't know he saved MM in 3).
- In MM5 Wily frames Proto out of revenge.
- In 6 Wily is finally captured.
- In 7 he escapes and reveals a new enemy - Bass. Who becomes the new co star.
- MM8 basically establishes things from 7.
- R&F shows Bass having problems following Wily's instructions.
- At this point, PF arguably ends the series with some *potential* endings ... depending on how you see them.
MM9 does give toss out some interesting ideas. According to the story Argia wrote, there's the whole matter of expiration dates being new .... whether this is canon or not is up in the air IMHO. If they're not supposed to be new it's still interesting. Two Fakemen makes me think Robot Masters are more like minor enemies than full-out characetrs; another interesting idea.
But MM9 is like MM2 in the way that it's a "return" story. MM2 is the sequel to MM1 and it's just about Wily's return. MM9 is the return of NES-MM and that's really the basic idea. Expecting anything more from a return story is asking too much. They didn't make it to end classic MM, they made it as a potential revival.
Anyhow, there ya go. MM classic has a very basic story. I too wish Capcom would resolve some plot threads (Would it kill them to reveal Protoman's sibling relationship to MM? Can they resolve Bass permenantly?), but ... whatever. Capcom's Capcom.
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Hey, I already explained why Rock didn't use the Charge or Slide in MM9. He's just being MegaCocky! Rock's all like "It's only Wily, and I'm [tornado fang]ing 12-0, or more. You know what, I'll give him a sporting chance this time! Hell, I'm only taking Rush cause he needs to go for a walk!"