You know, X and Zero's action poses?

Ramzal · 14371

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Offline Tickle Buffalo

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Reply #25 on: January 19, 2009, 09:17:03 PM
I can't really say I find those timelines too interesting, but they're a whole lot better than a thread dedicated to pointing out that something in video game is unrealistic.


Are you gonna make a new one tomorrow pointing out that respawning enemies don't make sense, too?



Offline Ramzal

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Reply #26 on: January 19, 2009, 09:20:53 PM
Nah. I was thinking about making one about jackasses who take poor attempts to sound witty.

The point to the thread was to correct the thought---which I have run into a lot---that people think such poses are effective. It's meaning was to cure ignorance of a subject. While you complain of a thread like this, you may as well try to complain about nearly any thread in the Off the Wall section's use. Knowledge is knowledge; to who it's use to is debatable. But since the rules say treat others as you would want to be treated.... I say fair game Cap. Pompus. Nice work making an ass out of yourself.



Offline Tickle Buffalo

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Reply #27 on: January 19, 2009, 09:28:53 PM
You... meet a lot of people who think stances from Rockman are efficient? Can I ask how you can tell? Do they mention it casually in conversation, or do you ask, or is there some other way you can find out? I'm just, y'know, just wondering.



Offline Ramzal

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Reply #28 on: January 19, 2009, 09:35:36 PM
In order.

Yes. Why not? More like people who think that stuff worked.

I can tell because I've been a martial artist for most of my life.

They've asked me. They've tried to take said poses as an example and show me how I can't move them. A flaw on their end. And these are people I'm acquainted with IRL. (A group of six people I know through a buddy of mine. They also think yelling will make them stronger. >_>) While I've had a conversation relating to this on occasion online to give someone sprite advice as well.

While that did drip into personal information (Which really isn't important on an internet board), is that informative enough to satisfy your curiosity? Or are you done being an ass? I'm simply giving information. If you didn't like the thread, no one told you to read or post in it. Your attempts to make me look stupid only backfire if anything.



Offline Tickle Buffalo

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Reply #29 on: January 19, 2009, 09:37:41 PM
Hahaha oh my god you have the coolest friends ever.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #30 on: January 19, 2009, 09:39:40 PM
Hank Prym vs Captain America is an example. :P

LoL, if you're going by the Ultimates story, that's a terrible example!  LoL, Hank Pym is slower than Cap, not to mention Cap is a Super Soldier.  Also, Hank Pym is not a fighter, nor is he "insanely strong."  What about Cap vs. Hulk?  Granted, Cap can last a while against him, however he'll eventually lose.



Offline Flame

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Reply #31 on: January 19, 2009, 09:51:20 PM
So, it is to be assumed a plain human being can trip a killing machine war robot?
unlikely. think about it. X and Zero, being made of what theyre made, must be pretty heavy. a human leg trying to kick out X or Zero's legs will probably end up hurting in the shins.
hmmm... Super killing robots vs. human being.
yeah. I dont think it would make much of a difference WHAT stance he uses he can still rip you in half.
now, againt another robot is another story, since they also use unpractical poses. there, its evenly matched, because kicking someones legs out from under them would make too much sense.
plus, look at the size of those feet on X and Zero and the garb the likes of Colonel and General wear. they shouldnt even be able to crouch down.

and one last thing... why are you making such a big fuss over a video game sprite?

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Zan

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Reply #32 on: January 19, 2009, 09:56:02 PM
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I can't really say I find those timelines too interesting

*threatens to delete them*

you'll realize soon how helpful they are!

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(X) must be pretty heavy

57 kg?



Offline Ramzal

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Reply #33 on: January 20, 2009, 12:13:46 AM
So, it is to be assumed a plain human being can trip a killing machine war robot?
unlikely. think about it. X and Zero, being made of what theyre made, must be pretty heavy.

As Zan stated, 57 kg. Not very heavy.

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a human leg trying to kick out X or Zero's legs will probably end up hurting in the shins.

You're joking, right? Well first, I said "slide" not kick. Kicking involves putting power behind it. Sliding does not. Also, there are people who can crush bricks with their -finger tips- and train by kicking tree's with their shins. Titanium--while strong is another substance that conditioning training can get used to. While it'd sting, the human fist or body can in fact damage it.

Second, I never said human vs Reploid. I said improper fighting vs proper fighting. :P Assuming? No biscuit for you, Flamey!

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yeah. I dont think it would make much of a difference WHAT stance he uses he can still rip you in half.

If he can get you, sure. But improper stances--as I said--is a direct token to someones fighting ability. Everything is read from the stance. Everything begins from learning how to stand right when fighting. Someone who can't stand correctly is going to have one hard time ripping anyone in half who knows what they're doing~.

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now, againt another robot is another story, since they also use unpractical poses. there, its evenly matched, because kicking someones legs out from under them would make too much sense.

Now how about against a robot who can fight well and proper against a robot that just punches wildly towards the face? (Which you really shouldn't be doing in the first place.)

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plus, look at the size of those feet on X and Zero and the garb the likes of Colonel and General wear. they shouldnt even be able to crouch down.

Yet they can. >_> The size would only contribute to the person using their body's against them~.

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and one last thing... why are you making such a big fuss over a video game sprite?

I've got a counter question. And I'll give you an answer that'll save both of us time. :P

Why are people making such big fuss's over events in a game that need to be thought hard about rather than having the answers in game? Why is it that people on the board would be willing to do it with Ashe, or Aile (Video game characters) and willing to admit it? Why is it that people who are over twenty (Including myself) still watch cartoons from the eighties when they have better things to do?

Why is it that Sub Tank has yet to be banned--no wait. He already was. I take that one back. Why is it that Vixy like purple? Why is it that PB knows the best place to get Mango Lemonade? Why is it that everyone knows the muffin man? Why is it that people go through the trouble to translate sourcebooks?

Answer: Because we, they, me and whatever feel like it. :P It's just that simple. If you really want an answer to that question 3/4ths of the board itself would be stripped naked. >_>

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LoL, if you're going by the Ultimates story, that's a terrible example!  LoL, Hank Pym is slower than Cap, not to mention Cap is a Super Soldier.  Also, Hank Pym is not a fighter, nor is he "insanely strong."  What about Cap vs. Hulk?  Granted, Cap can last a while against him, however he'll eventually lose.

Point taken. I was referring more to 616's storyline but the Ultimates would have been a terrible example. Cap -flipped- Pym over for beating his own wife while Pym was in full size. By his -knuckle-. 0_0; In fullsize he is insanely strong.

But Cap vs the Hulk is possible. Spidey found out that if you wear down Hulk's Gamma energy for long enough, constantly, he'll revert to Bruce. But the only real way to stop him is to at that point kill him. Sooo, Original Cap wouldn't do it, but odds are that Bucky would.



Offline Flame

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Reply #34 on: January 20, 2009, 12:21:43 AM
D: nooo... not the biscuit!

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Tickle Buffalo

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Reply #35 on: January 20, 2009, 01:28:17 AM
Why is it that people on the board would be willing to do it with Ashe, or Aile (Video game characters) and willing to admit it?

.....
Did you just compare complaining about someone's fighting stance to having sex?

You derive sexual pleasure from this!?



Offline Robert Oakes

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Reply #36 on: January 20, 2009, 02:40:42 AM
.....
Did you just compare complaining about someone's fighting stance to having sex?

You derive sexual pleasure from this!?

You're missing the point of Ramzal's argument. It's pretty silly to bash him for criticizing a minor detail of the X series when equally trivial topics are discussed at length in this forum. Last I checked, we're allowed to discuss anything we want about Rockman/Mega Man here, from Proto Man's origin to X's action stance to Ashe's lack of pants.



Offline VixyNyan

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Reply #37 on: January 20, 2009, 02:46:48 AM
That's the reason there are discussion boards. ^^
We happen to be in the sexiest one too. </wii>

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Offline Tickle Buffalo

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Reply #38 on: January 20, 2009, 03:29:59 AM
You're missing the point of Ramzal's argument.

If you had the opportunity to suggest that someone gets off to talking about the way characters in a game stand, would you let it slip past you?



Offline Zan

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Reply #39 on: January 20, 2009, 07:30:17 PM

[objection!]

Who the [tornado fang] cares when you're dealing with COLLISION DAMAGE?!

Guess I have to reply seriously >.>

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Someone who can't stand correctly is going to have one hard time ripping anyone in half who knows what they're doing~.

As the legendary hero with limitless potential, people underestimating your actual fighting ability based on superficial matters is amongst the greatest asset you can have. Really, every single person that underestimates either X and Zero will simply crash and burn, regardless of them having stupid stances or being a master of Ansatsuken. Not to mention, in a world where warriors can have the most diverse of abilities thanks to the advancements of technology, a world where these warriors are created by scientists, you really have to think twice before determining someone's ability based on the silly stances they've self-taught or have been programmed with. If you see these silly stances in a world filled with Repliroids, I'd start worrying about 'what else' they can dish out.

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Titanium--while strong is another substance that conditioning training can get used to. While it'd sting, the human fist or body can in fact damage it.

Titanium [tornado fanging] X!.... Or Titanium-Z!!!

And really, a regular Repliroid can't even dent a ceratanium wall, the alloy which Rockman is made of. What makes you  think regular people, both humans and repliroids included, stand a chance against S-class Hunters made from the far more resilient Titanium-X or Titanium-Z? That's disregarding even what other type of damage deflection is implemented into their bodies. X's skeleton alone reduces 93% of all damage!



Offline Robert Oakes

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Reply #40 on: January 21, 2009, 02:28:53 AM
If you had the opportunity to suggest that someone gets off to talking about the way characters in a game stand, would you let it slip past you?

Yes, I would. That's neither clever nor funny, it's crude and insulting.



Offline Hypershell

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Reply #41 on: January 21, 2009, 03:45:51 AM
I can see why someone might not appreciate it, but this is RPM.  If you can't deal with crude and insulting, Sub Tank and Hitomi will eat you alive. :P

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Offline Shiki Tohno

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Reply #42 on: January 21, 2009, 05:26:23 AM
I can see why someone might not appreciate it, but this is RPM.  If you can't deal with crude and insulting, Sub Tank and Hitomi will eat you alive. :P
This. And to make it worse, depending on how n00bish you're acting, I'll probably be behind them endorsing and approving what they do.





Some of it, at least. :P



Offline Ramzal

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Reply #43 on: January 21, 2009, 08:23:18 PM
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As the legendary hero with limitless potential, people underestimating your actual fighting ability based on superficial matters is amongst the greatest asset you can have.

Yet; as you admitted before, X and Zero walk out of every fight -barely- being the victor and suffering from large amounts of damage. When that is the case, be it unlimited potential or not, that's an aspect of luck. Not skill.

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Really, every single person that underestimates either X and Zero will simply crash and burn, regardless of them having stupid stances or being a master of Ansatsuken.

Again, barely winning. It's not as if X and Zero move in, take out a Reploid and leave unscathed. While they do have knowledge of how to survive and push themselves through a fight, that can narrowly be justified as the end to the means.

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Not to mention, in a world where warriors can have the most diverse of abilities thanks to the advancements of technology, a world where these warriors are created by scientists, you really have to think twice before determining someone's ability based on the silly stances they've self-taught or have been programmed with.

Now, see, here's a problem. Whenever we see videos of Zero fighting Sigma toe to toe or X just barely getting out of a death situation with Sigma, their fighting styles are... back yard bully at best. Zero swings wildly at Sigma's head, constantly. While they are aimed punches, he places too much power behind them, which is why Sigma was able to use that power against him and literally slam him against the ground and through the roof. That was the right approach, using your enemies strengths against him and making it a weakness. Furthermore, when looking at Zero's slashes, you can see he goes at enemies in game with the grace of a fly swatter, as well as making poor movement choices like a jumping, turning around the back slash.

Showing your back to anything while your using a sword is one of the worst moves you can possibly do seeing as when you do that, you create a large blind spot for yourself from behind while you're turning, leaving your back exposed for a good moment to be attacked. Also, his three stage attack in X4 is flawed as well, when he slashes down, it's a good momentum built up, but he goes into it too far down, leaving his face, chest and forearm too exposed. His second slash coves a wide arc infront of himself but towards the end when he opens up his entire body is open to attack, and his third slash, he lifts his sword too far back to come down with, leaving him open yet again. His sword techs, laughable movements at best due to them all putting too much power into and poor foot placement that his weight can be used against him to flip him on his back.

Sooo when you make the point that scientists give them these abilities and fighting skills or techniques, it only makes that claim worse seeing as how his attacking in all games are poor, put too much power into them, and not guarding the body enough. Needless to say that while the rest of the Reploids tend to be no better off, I can see how they win constantly, yes. Yet the only one who seems to have the foundation (Stance) well enough is Marino. Who'd I'd bet would be able to take Zero in a fight of skill. (What can I say? I'm a combat nerd. >_>)

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Titanium [tornado fanging] X!.... Or Titanium-Z!!!

And really, a regular Repliroid can't even dent a ceratanium wall, the alloy which Rockman is made of. What makes you  think regular people, both humans and repliroids included, stand a chance against S-class Hunters made from the far more resilient Titanium-X or Titanium-Z? That's disregarding even what other type of damage deflection is implemented into their bodies. X's skeleton alone reduces 93% of all damage!


*thinks about it* Okay, I'll give you that, although I question how Rock is made of ceratanium when he gets dents/broken parts/missing parts from battle all the time. Is it a matter of density?

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I can see why someone might not appreciate it, but this is RPM.  If you can't deal with crude and insulting, Sub Tank and Hitomi will eat you alive. :P


Thing is that I wouldn't mind that, as long as said person was funny or at the least part, witty. Then I could laugh about it. Sub Tank does it in a funny way, witty and sometimes perverted way which is still funny, Hitomi does it in an odd--blunt yet somehow funny way. This guy... not so much. Sooooo I'm just not going to waste time with someone who thinks they're funny but aren't? :P



Offline Zan

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Reply #44 on: January 24, 2009, 02:56:37 PM
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Sooo when you make the point that scientists give them these abilities and fighting skills or techniques, it only makes that claim worse seeing as how his attacking in all games are poor, put too much power into them, and not guarding the body enough. Needless to say that while the rest of the Reploids tend to be no better off, I can see how they win constantly, yes. Yet the only one who seems to have the foundation (Stance) well enough is Marino. Who'd I'd bet would be able to take Zero in a fight of skill. (What can I say? I'm a combat nerd. >_>)

I'm not talking about old fashioned combat though, most of these Reploids have other tricks up their sleeves. Even Chill Penguin is lethal because of his ice abilities, there are many ways to fight other than punch and kicks and throws. As for X and Zero. X is a long range fighter, he doesn't do close combat very well. Zero is a character that can improvise with anything he has on hand, he fights more instinctively than anything else.

Besides, Zero has that humongous block of hair in the way, why would he care about standing correctly when the enemy can pull his hair >.>



Offline Flame

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Reply #45 on: January 25, 2009, 01:52:08 AM
Well, Zero EXE used the hair as a sheild. He jumped in front of Rock and took a blast to the back from Zero One (I think that was the name..)  and he took no damage whatsoever. the hair took the whole thing. and was subsequently deleted.
which was awesome.
...
I think Ive just discovered the purpose for Zeros hair.... 8D

Its basically his shield. I mean, Zeros hair is to Zero like the Protosheild is to Protoman. I mean, seriously. how does it NEVER get cut off? even though hes faced MANY enemies with "cutting" capabilities. the only answer is of course, that his hair is made of the strongest material in the universe. even in X5's ending his hair is PERFECT, while he is just a head and Torso with one arm and a hole punched in his chest which STILL doesn't do anything to his hair.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Cherrykorock

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Reply #46 on: January 27, 2009, 03:44:20 AM
When it comes to the fighting stances you must remember, as PB has repeatedly pointed out, that their proportions are very different from that of a normal human. Their lower legs and feet are large and cumbersome, as are their hand and forearms. Therefore making even the simplest movements a bit of a complication. Also as PB has said they shouldn't even be able to walk. For a proper balanced step the foot needs to roll from front to back with a slight curve in the toes to prevent from falling sideways or just straight up tripping. Since it's a game sprite we'll just ignore these physics. As the intelligent Reploids they are, not only are they able to perceive and analyze a combat situation much quicker than ours. Also since they are artificial they are also physically much quicker thus their reactions would be better than a human being regardless. Adding to the fact that according to the opening "Diagnostics" part in the opening of Megaman X the gems seem to serve as a broad range camera which aids them in combat with targeting assistance and what have you. In addition they have very powerful armor and powerful weapons. They can also dash quickly in an emergency or climb up the walls. They also have the ability to change their fighting patterns taking into account their surroundings and enemy. All these abilities allow them to overcome their opponents regardless of their stances.

Putting everything I just said aside from X to X3 I think X's fighting stance is rather solid. His one hand is close to the side of his face and body ready to repel an attack. His other hand is lower prepared to block a lower attack or deliver an attack of his own. The placement of his front foot stabalizes his body while his back leg being further back prevents a sweep. In X4 it's a basic stance that allows him to simply evade moves so he can get far enough away to make his range more effective. The same goes for the rest of the games as it's the same stance as X4 more or less. Storyline wise however I believe that his stance becomes more relaxed and calm because X lost the initial anger that thrust him into the Reploid War to begin with.

As for Zero, Zan stated that Zero is a close range instinctual fighter. This is more or less the truth. He needs to get close to his enemies to do any real damage so having a more open stance would entice any enemies to get close and attack him. As for his blind/open spots, I would like to think that if you saw someone swinging around a saber "wildly'' as its been put, then that would make you'd be less inclined to close that distance. Zero is also more skilled than most of the other hunters and Irregulars thus negating the need for a specialized stance. As for his wild swings in the sequence against Sigma, clearly he was awakened not too long before then and was also under the direct influence of the Zero Virus therefore inhibiting his thoughts and actions probably all he thought was destroy. Also I think Flame is right about Zero's hair. I mean, I've never even seen a bit of it cut off!

However most of this is my opinion however. :P



Offline Fxeni

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Reply #47 on: January 27, 2009, 03:57:23 AM
... I'm a martial artist as well, and I'm quite adamant about analyzing fighting styles myself, but this thread... seriously? >_>'



Offline Cherrykorock

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Reply #48 on: January 27, 2009, 04:06:19 AM
... I'm a martial artist as well, and I'm quite adamant about analyzing fighting styles myself, but this thread... seriously? >_>'
I have nothing better to do with my spare time.  X(



Offline Zan

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Reply #49 on: January 27, 2009, 06:35:37 PM
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"Diagnostics" part in the opening of Megaman X the gems seem to serve as a broad range camera

They're talking about his actual eyes, not the gem. If you take the intro that literal, the gem also contains his vocal cords.