It Dumbfounds Me that People Find BBAMM Offensive

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Offline Gaia

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Reply #50 on: September 09, 2012, 05:07:31 PM

The character himself is a washed up nobody with a big heart and big dreams. He also does whatever Roll tells him to do, like climb mountains or something looking (digging) for treasure.

This also reminds me more of the plot to the DuckTales NES games than Trigger, as Scrooge always has something in the back of his head to go and get something himself, not hire someone else to do it. Mega Man is a similar situation, only with a more physical entity giving him those orders.

I also liked Over-1's design.. He just had bad timing, along with MEGA MAN SCROOGE.. and had the unfortunate deal of being a mary sue, mass produced model and everything. Huh, reminds me A LOT of Silver the Hedgehog. He was hated by the fact that he's another of sonic's games, and came in a bad game. It took awhile to get to know him better, though.

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So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

Yep, every time when someone mentions that game people get energized for an apparent reason whatsoever. It's like this everywhere else, trust me.

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Offline Treleus

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Reply #51 on: September 09, 2012, 06:25:47 PM
As I said, it is up to the individual.  But when you go drawing distinctions between being "peeved" and being "offended", you're merely passing your own view of semantics off as fact.

I think it's an important distinction to make. Being peeved carries much less strong connotations than being offended.

No need to get defensive.  That was merely my way of asking you to hold back your initial reaction to my first line and hear me out.

All of that could've been avoided had you been more considerate.

See what I just did there?

UMvC3 was a scapegoat.  BBAMM is just bad taste.  As I've mentioned in my last post, there's a world of difference.

I think you're splitting hairs here.

He HAS, that's the point.  That's not by any means to say that he always will; suggesting otherwise would be naive.

I think this is an overreaction.

You may call it a short stint, but as Objection Man pointed out, it's a stint that was 11 years in the making.  That's not something that's going to be brushed under the rug easily.

Legends 3 won't be brushed under the rug easily. The only reason BBAMM is even being singled out is because of that. By itself, even with its tenuous relations to Universe and L3, it still amounts to little more than a cameo. People who haven't bothered playing SFxT will only remember it because of its timing.

Once again, you have an outstanding ability to split hairs among synonyms.

Wikipedia:
Missing in action (MIA) is a casualty Category assigned under the Status of Missing to armed services personnel who are reported missing during active service. They may have been killed, wounded, become a prisoner of war, or deserted. If deceased, neither their remains nor grave can be positively identified. Becoming MIA has been an occupational risk for service personnel for as long as there has been warfare.

hi·a·tus
Noun:   
A pause or gap in a sequence, series, or process.
Synonyms:   
gap - lacuna - blank - chasm


That's a debatable opinion if I ever saw one.  Anyone with a brain stem knows that the Mega Man franchise comes with a huge variety of options even if you're only willing to consider the series lead characters.  There are seven of them, after all.

And they're all pretty much the same: a revered hero roughly between the ages of 10-18. We're well past outrage now and are just talking mere preference.

What's more, there are more "Bad Box Art" designs than just MM1/Universe on which SFxT's is clearly based.  Their entire joke approach could have been very easily preserved with far more dignity and grace by simply reskinning it into the MM9 or MM10 promotional designs.

But it wouldn't have carried the hilarious legacy of the original box-art, upon which those new reskins were based. And if they were made fat or silly, I don't think people would've liked them anymore than the original.

Not in the least.

I mean, some passive, instinctive resentment, maybe.  But by any level of reasonable, conscious thought, attacking one franchise for the sake of another makes no sense to me.

We agree on that. I just thought I'd throw this into the quote pyramid to make it seem a little less like a snarky pick-apart attack.

I think this whole BBAMM thing is kinda playing into that "attacking other franchises" thing when it comes to Street Fighter, since even though SFxT is clearly not made for us, we're being super picky about it anyways. Even without it, a lot of Mega Man fans are extremely jealous and vile towards the success of SF and RE, although that probably has more to do with how Capcom is shamelessly milking them.

In terms of it's platform, you probably have a good point.

But there's more to it than that.  I know I wasn't the only one who, back before Legends 3 was announced, was more excited about RMO than about Universe.  For all the "enlightened" gamers who claim that narrative and gameplay are the be-all end-all of gaming's appeal, there is a HIGH level of character-based appeal to the medium.  Why else do you think that Mario's face is plastered on every sport known to man?  A familiar face opens the fan up to new experiences.  When they first stepped into the DS generation, though, Capcom took the complete opposite approach: Recast the franchise, uproot the aesthetic, and attach it all to the same old gameplay with minimal tweaks.  It was exactly what they shouldn't have done, as it alienates the existing fans without attracting new ones.  That's why Capcom is pulling a complete about-face with Ace Attorney, and why they tried and failed to do the same with Operate Shooting Star, and to a lesser extent Zero Collection/Mythos.  It's also why XOver's artwork is seen as a complete contradiction in target audience to the nature of its "casual" platform.  And it's why (along with the whole co-op gameplay thing) Rockman Online was a hot topic despite the english-speaking world knowing damn well they would never play it.

Rockman Online would probably never have been popular simply because PC MMOs are a dead genre outside of a few key franchises.  But there are some awesome concepts in there, and Capcom could honestly learn a thing or two from it.

I'd like to hear more about this. This deserves it's own thread.



Offline Hypershell

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Reply #52 on: September 09, 2012, 10:45:39 PM
I also liked Over-1's design..
So do I, actually.  I mean, he's not the greatest, but he's solid.  Most who take the time to think about XOver realize that the most disturbing points to it are technical, not conceptual.  That being, it's reusing a game engine that was already established to be a complete POS.

Being peeved carries much less strong connotations than being offended.
To you, maybe.  Not everyone lives by that assumption.

I, for instance, ignore an awful lot of what I find offensive, because I respect the fact that what bothers me doesn't necessarily bother the rest of the world.  On the other hand, I would only describe myself as "peeved" when I am upset with something to the point of disrupting my usual state of mind, thus I require some manner of resolution before moving on.

Quote
All of that could've been avoided had you been more considerate.

See what I just did there?

I think you're splitting hairs here.

I think this is an overreaction.


Quote
Wikipedia:
Missing in action (MIA) is a casualty Category assigned under the Status of Missing to armed services personnel who are reported missing during active service. They may have been killed, wounded, become a prisoner of war, or deserted. If deceased, neither their remains nor grave can be positively identified. Becoming MIA has been an occupational risk for service personnel for as long as there has been warfare.

hi·a·tus
Noun:   
A pause or gap in a sequence, series, or process.
Synonyms:   
gap - lacuna - blank - chasm
Being MIA is being on hiatus, though being on hiatus isn't necessarily being MIA.

I don't see how MIA is inappropriate other than the fact that Mega Man isn't in the armed services, but I don't think I need to be telling you that the term in this case is being used metaphorically.

So, yeah, gonna need some more clarification on that one.

Quote
I think this whole BBAMM thing is kinda playing into that "attacking other franchises" thing when it comes to Street Fighter, since even though SFxT is clearly not made for us, we're being super picky about it anyways.
I'm sure those who attack Street Fighter out of jealousy (and I know they're out there) are more than willing to add BBAMM to their ammunition.  But as for me, whether it's a "Mega Man game" or not, it is still Mega Man playable in a video game with Capcom's approval.  Being a guest character does not grant him a free pass.  

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Reply #53 on: September 10, 2012, 12:21:17 AM
"Hey, Capcom was going to include a sorta-living reference to MML3 and MMU and make him an out-of-shape schlub of dubious likability, but after those two games bit the dust, they went back, picked a different design, removed the references, and revised his character to not be so dubious. Maybe Capcom isn't as thoughtless as we figured?"

If you actually read the posts, we were referring to him being removed all together.



Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #54 on: September 10, 2012, 12:30:24 AM
If you actually read the posts, we were referring to him being removed all together.

...*thunk*

Sometimes I wonder why I haven't been legally declared incompetent.

BBAMM would still be technically completely-removed, though, if they picked a design that was just "Box Art Megaman".



Offline Flame

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Reply #55 on: September 10, 2012, 03:03:25 AM
Thats what i was saying. I would have commended Capcom if they had removed him altogether after L3 and Universe got canned. Remodelling him would have been totally Ok with me, but this is Capcom, so the best i could have hoped for was a complete removal.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Treleus

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Reply #56 on: September 10, 2012, 03:12:02 AM
To you, maybe.  Not everyone lives by that assumption.

I, for instance, ignore an awful lot of what I find offensive, because I respect the fact that what bothers me doesn't necessarily bother the rest of the world.  On the other hand, I would only describe myself as "peeved" when I am upset with something to the point of disrupting my usual state of mind, thus I require some manner of resolution before moving on.

Well, there's a reason why there's such a thing as a "pet peeve" but not a "pet offense". One's being annoyed by something, and another is being gravely upset by something, like if I called you a name or insulted your family. The former tends to be indirect whereas the latter tends to be very direct.

Being MIA is being on hiatus, though being on hiatus isn't necessarily being MIA.

I don't see how MIA is inappropriate other than the fact that Mega Man isn't in the armed services, but I don't think I need to be telling you that the term in this case is being used metaphorically.

So, yeah, gonna need some more clarification on that one.

MIA means you're dead or lost. Being on hiatus is more like you're on vacation.

I'm sure those who attack Street Fighter out of jealousy (and I know they're out there) are more than willing to add BBAMM to their ammunition.  But as for me, whether it's a "Mega Man game" or not, it is still Mega Man playable in a video game with Capcom's approval.  Being a guest character does not grant him a free pass.  

I don't think its anywhere remotely up to Mega Man fans to let a cameo or a joke pass. Developers need to have some fun too. But then it's not my place to tell you how to feel, so consider it a suggestion.



Offline Mirby

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Reply #57 on: September 10, 2012, 06:04:00 AM
Are you two seriously arguing about the definitions of words? Really?

I mean, just asking.

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Offline Joseph Collins

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Reply #58 on: September 10, 2012, 08:18:37 AM
Well, the topic is kind of petering out, see, and...



Offline Treleus

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Reply #59 on: September 10, 2012, 12:26:14 PM
Are you two seriously arguing about the definitions of words? Really?

I mean, just asking.

We are  -AC.


Anyways, yeah, I think this thread has run past its course. I admit that BBAMM was plagued by unfortunate bad timing, and that I shouldn't be telling people how they should feel about stuff, but at the very least, I did what I wanted by giving my two cents and suggesting that maybe people shouldn't feel that offended or upset with BBAMM. Reasons for that being that BBAMM's not really hard to enjoy by himself independent from his association with two cancelled Mega Man games, only one of which fans (rightfully) pitched a fit about. So from there I just extrapolated on the hate for the character and identified that it had little to do with him and more to do with what he's associated with, which is almost like hating X for (not really) starring in X7.

Considering this whole conversation was based on the slimmest, unconfirmed (or arguably deconfirmed) notion that BBAMM might get his own game, this was probably a big waste of time and effort, but I at least wanted to communicate that a game starring BBAMM might not be terrible if people took him for what he is and not what he's associated with. He's a joke. He happened to be an awfully ill-timed one, but nevertheless an indirectly ill-timed joke as opposed to a directly intentioned joke. Personally, it's not something I'd hate Capcom for if they decided to bank on him for a little bit. Heck, I'd more likely root for them as long as the hypothetical game doesn't look terrible or is clearly in poor taste. At this time, though, it kinda would be in poor taste. I'd much rather Capcom make good with us for Legends 3 before they start joking around pretending everything's A-OK with the fans.

It's really, really [tornado fang]ing not. But hey, if they can give me a chuckle with BBAMM yet, I welcome them to try.



Offline Ladd Spencer

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Reply #60 on: September 24, 2012, 07:49:11 PM
Bad Box Art Mega Man should be in a 3rd person adventure featuring Ladd Spencer in a comical spy detective stealth action-adventure. Lots of cliffs and Ladd can grab Yellow Man by the waist like Batman to get places. 90 hours of cutscenes in a deep plot involving romance and explosions.


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Offline Treleus

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Reply #61 on: September 26, 2012, 04:01:22 AM
They should give the project to Team Ninja. They know their way around curves, acrobatics, and jiggle physics. I want to see BBAMM's body jiggle all about as he jumps and shoots.

Or they could give him to Telltale and they'll make him into a central character in a new Sam & Max game. And then I'll cry tears of manly joy.



Offline Ladd Spencer

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Reply #62 on: September 26, 2012, 04:57:07 AM
Capcom should pick a series everyone wants to see resurrected, and make a buddy cop thing with whoever and Yellow Man.

Or Capcom should make a party or Smash Bros. game with ALL their box art representations. I wanna see Trojan in this, and Ladd and Strider as featured on US box art. Every single first game in a series for NES. Let's all brainstorm great members of this roster.


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Offline Hypershell

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Reply #63 on: September 27, 2012, 03:04:25 AM
Are you two seriously arguing about the definitions of words? Really?

I mean, just asking.
Apparently, but I get bored after the first round.

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Offline Ladd Spencer

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Reply #64 on: September 27, 2012, 09:52:20 PM
What words?


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Reply #65 on: October 04, 2012, 06:03:50 AM
I can't believe that I didn't post in this thread yet.  That being said, I liked Bad Box Art Mega Man, including the one featuring in Street Fighter X Tekken. 

If I were to choose my favorite versions of Bad Box Art Mega Man, Mega Man 2 and Mega Man 10 versions are my favorites. 

The Mega Man 2 box art portrays Mega Man as a real man without the strange vibe I see and receive from the Mega Man 1 and Mega Man 9 box arts.

The Mega Man 10 box art shows Mega Man as a man who can also look good in X's regular armor. 

"Well.  This is just delightful!" - Marino, from Mega Man X Command Mission


Offline Ladd Spencer

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Reply #66 on: October 04, 2012, 09:26:47 PM
Why is Dr. Light hiding behind Crash Man? Or is that supposed to be Wily? I could never figure that out.


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Offline Flame

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Reply #67 on: October 04, 2012, 09:39:50 PM
It's Dr. Wily looking like Dr. Light. I suppose having a large bearded scientist with glasses seemed like a good idea for a bad guy.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.