Should Zero Have Returned in X2?

Treleus · 8968

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Offline Zan

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Reply #25 on: February 24, 2012, 11:47:28 AM
I wouldn't put too much stuff in the conversations with the bosses. Even in the ZERO-games they've always been unimportant snippets, that needed to be quick and short in anticipation of the battle.

You're right, though, in that MHX did make several changes in presentation compared to X1 for the worse. Some of those can be chalked up to taste, though.. Removing the containment capsule streamlines the scene, if you ask me. But VAVA not being completely immune to any damage really diminishes the point of these battles. It's nice thing to play around with in a newgame+ sort of thing, but not for the first playthrough.

What I'm instead referring to when I speak of a superb job focusing on X, are the scenes with Dr. Right from Day of Sigma and the ending, as well as a consistent mention of X's limitless evolutionary potential.

Anyway, what I was getting at before is that you should see both the original and remake as complementary resources. They're not mutually exclusive; together they make the whole of the story. It would be best if any changes for the remake contradicted with the original as little as possible. So really, let's not rewrite the whole thing just because you think the story should have gone differently. That would be a different story, not the one we came to love. Think instead of how we could keep it the same, but more streamlined and expanded in the right direction.



Offline Treleus

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Reply #26 on: February 24, 2012, 06:45:30 PM
It sounds like what you're asking of me is to rewrite the X series without rewriting it. Zen koan'd!

What I would want is to incorporate some or most of those important, memorable elements from the original series--the stuff that didn't suck or failed to make sense--and better present it in a new way. It would capture some of the memorable feelings of those games, referencing them in a way, but encapsulating them in a new experience. For example, reusing the Variable X theme for X at key points in the remade franchise. Or using the ending and credits theme from X1 in the corollary remake. I want to build for a similar nostalgic feeling, but with a new story. It'll be up to the fans to decide whether they like it or not, so I'd better do my best to do what I want and make something people will enjoy and warm up to.



Offline Flame

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Reply #27 on: February 29, 2012, 05:55:10 AM
Well, Variable X WAS used in X6 when you find Zero... In a more upbeat tone. Which was kinda neat, since it was paralleling his death in X1, but this time with the opposite.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Align

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Reply #28 on: February 29, 2012, 09:45:31 AM
Although the implication there was that it was Zero's theme...



Offline Treleus

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Reply #29 on: February 29, 2012, 01:01:46 PM
Same might be said of the American intro for X5, although that could go either way.

No, I meant using the Variable X theme to mark some dramatic moment or action in X's progress as a Maverick Hunter or as a person, rather than it being typecast into Zero's death theme. Some people have argued that the theme belongs to scenes with both X and Zero, but in wanting to emphasize X more, and in lieu of a defined theme for him that persists across different games/series, I'd rather it belong more to X than Zero. Perhaps it could refer to X while coincidentally involving Zero in the given scene, but all the same I'd like it to hold to its original name.



Offline Zan

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Reply #30 on: February 29, 2012, 02:49:16 PM
I've always seen that track named "demo", never Variable X, in any of the official OSTs. I've always associated the theme with Zero myself.



Offline Treleus

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Reply #31 on: February 29, 2012, 05:47:49 PM
Evidently, it was the name for the track in the Capcom Music Generations compilation of X1-X6. Even when it's attributed to Zero: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=variable+x&search_sort=relevance&search_category=0&page=



Offline Zan

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Reply #32 on: February 29, 2012, 06:24:33 PM
The X1-6 OST clearly labels it Demo. Variable X just seems like a fan-given name.



Offline Flame

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Reply #33 on: February 29, 2012, 10:29:32 PM
Thats funny. Is that video where the "Variable X" name comes from? I always thought it was called Variable X.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Treleus

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Reply #34 on: February 29, 2012, 11:42:20 PM
The OSTation does seem to be the only place where you see it. Wherever they got it from, this is what they have to say about it:

Quote
NOTE: This is X's theme, which was rehashed as both Zero's Return and Zero's Death scene theme for Mega Man X6 and Mega Man Maverick Hunter X respectively, which has caused a lot of confusion over the years. This was done mostly due to the fact that the theme didn't serve the purpose it did in Mega Man X where X is still discovering his potential and seems to be insecure of this. Maverick Hunter X sees a rather optimistic X thus making the theme's original purpose obsolete.

If you think about it, it makes sense. Zero's theme already plays out when he saves X those two times in Mega Man X, and when X expresses his discouragement in his own abilities after being beaten by Vile, that theme starts playing. Zero gives him the uplifting pep talk, wherein he says X may grow as strong as he is some day, and they both continue their respective missions. This plays again when Zero is dying, but like the first scene of the game where he appears, he again talks about how much X has grown, and "maybe [he] can defeat Sigma." This galvanizes both X and the player to realize their true potentials, defeat Sigma, and beat the game. The way it's used makes the intent of the theme pretty clear, even though most remember it for when Zero dies, and so it gets typecast as Zero's death theme.

Then again, you could also argue that the theme is meant to accent and accompany the camaraderie these two hunters share, and given how it's used throughout the rest of the series, it clearly gets associated with that definition: the American intro to X5 basically sets up how that camaraderie will be tested once again, and the same theme accents Zero's reuniting with X in X6. However in Xtreme's intro, it plays that theme while showing and talking about X, and then switches to Zero's X1 theme when showing him, so there's that too.

There's elements of both purposes in that one song as it's used throughout the series, and if we're going by game count, it's 3 to 2, but I prefer the name and associated intention of Variable X. That's just me.



Offline Soultrigger

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Reply #35 on: April 19, 2012, 07:08:59 PM
2 months since last post, but it's not like much gets posted around here anyways...

I think Zero plays a huge part of the problem surrounding X's character development, but he himself is not the problem. Personally, I think the biggest problem is either:
A) the result of different interpretations of X's character (I can't prove this)
B) the lack of a developed personality X is supposed to progress towards in the first place

At first in X1, Zero is what X is supposed to become. Then in X2, he comes back, so obviously they're going to have to distinguish between two characters with defining differences. However, this contradicts the point of the first game: to become like Zero. The solution? Have X gain SOME Zero-like qualities post-X1, but not all of them. For starters, X has always been about pacifism, while Zero is about business. X pre-X1 is naive and way too idealistic, so if not in after X1, then at least throughout the series, X becomes more realistic with fighting Mavericks, but not to the point he forgets his ideals (or maybe even lose them only to regain them again).

The SNES games did this right because, back in the days, it was mostly "show, don't tell". Seeing how they had little dialogue and centered on a guy who singlehandedly took out armies of Mavericks and their badass commander Sigma, you'd think the guy have some spine and a little hardened personality, right? In X2, X starts off the story as THE 17th commander (originally Sigma): he's starting to become badass, and even the X-Hunters know not to underestimate the person who fell Sigma in X1. In X3, Doppler too does not underestimate X based on the last 2 games. Basically, even in the little dialogue that was given, X was portrayed as someone to be reckoned with, so naturally he had a cool factor, even with Zero right next to him.

Sadly, with technological advancements, when they weren't spending all their cutscene budget/story time on Zero, the devs decided they wanted to flesh out X's naivety because they couldn't the last 3 games. Unfortunately, it's now already the fourth+ installment. You could say that, after X1, X wasn't even developing as a character anymore: he just became a static, idealistic nice guy that contrasted with badass, straight-to-business Zero. Anything X accomplished was pretty much forgotten and everyone just treated him as "some hunter". You'd think after stopping 3+ wars, people would give the guy some respect? On top of that, X4~X6 decided to focus on Zero's origin story, while X7~X8 were dedicated to Axl's origin story. So in other words, after the SNES trilogy, X got completely shafted in terms of plot development.

Mega Man wasn't ever really much about storyline, but I always believed a game could still have a good story and memorable characters through show, don't tell. If Samus could do it, why not X? Instead, the writers decided to simply stick to what's already established rather than possibly changing X for the better.

If I could change things, what would I do? For starters, give X more badass time post-X3, the guy looks like a pussy until the Zero series when he's "dead". It's fine if he's naive here and there, but at least SHOW that X eventually becomes more realistic and experienced as a war veteran. It shouldn't take X7 for him to figure it out that maybe talking can't fix everything and that innocent civilians are dying while he sits at base doing nothing. Thankfully, X8 didn't suffer this nonsense.

With Zero returning in X2, ideally the series would focus on their development as partners: what one lacks, they gradually gain by learning from the other. X learns to be realistic from Zero, but Zero learns to understand that there's more to just slicing up the bad guys. And if introducing Axl is such a necessity, at least introduce him during a point where X is also a respectable badass who eats Sigmas for breakfast.



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Offline Flame

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Reply #36 on: April 20, 2012, 04:25:31 PM
X8 was a pretty good X portrayal.

But so was X6. X5 was here and there, it was ok, but X6 I think, is definitely one of X's best characterizations. No nonsense hunter, hardened by the events of X5, with a sharper look to his eyes, and carrying Zero's saber.

I'd say post SNES, X wasnt TOO bad, X4 he was a bit too naive, but he wasnt stupid naive. Just well, yknow, trying to put the brakes on a war between peacekeepers that was started over misconceptions, before the casualties start mounting on either side. While naive to think The Repliforce would just lay their weapons down, you cant blame him for trying.

X5 he was pretty good, had his innocence, but didnt want to waste time when he was on a timer, and therefore had to be a little less idealistic and a bit more... aggressive? Not quite sure how else to describe it. he wasnt taking any nonsense, or at least trying not to.

X6 I mentioned already, and X8 too. he was straightforward with Maverick Hunting, not letting his ideals get in the way of what he knows is the only way to them in the first place. (except for when enemies play mind games with him)

it's X7 that just came right the [tornado fang] out of nowhere, and was never mentioned again. Big Lipped Wheel Gator moment indeed.

Even Command Mission had pretty good characterization for X, although not changing facial expressions kind of didnt help too much. (but Gatha's wonderful acting more than makes up for it. "YOU... YOU... MAVERICK!!!" )

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.