Theory Time: Archie Megaman

The Great Gonzo · 13721

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Offline The Great Gonzo

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on: November 24, 2008, 04:47:00 AM
I am a grand overthinker, which probably contributes to my insomnia--but I digress. We've already seen Dreamwave's 4-issue "series", Mr. Shin's excellent summaries of NAdM, and heard those rumours about a cancelled Marvel series based on Ruby-Spears MM. (It either never existed or was vaporware. I believe Mandi's already taken that rumour down)

I recently relocated my Archie Sonic comics so that I could actually read 'em (a flimsy pile on the corner of a cluttered desk set against the wall? Not terribly conductive to anything), and seeing how there's been no "real" MM comic series (NAdM is interesting, yes, but ye gods...THE PLOT) and that only the .EXE manga was brought to the U.S...you can see where this is going, don't you?

An Archie adaptation of Megaman could go one of several ways:

1.) A straight adaptation of the games--like Ikehara, only super-condensed.

2.) A more...interesting take on Megaman, like what they did with Sonic the Hedgehog.

3.) A continuation of Ruby-Spears Megaman, hopefully utilizing some or all of the points established therein (don't look at me like that).

HOWEVER--as much as I'd like to theorize, I have one major beef with Archie: they're way, WAY too kiddie-oriented. The thing is, I can't name a single mature Archie production. "Mature" meaning "competence in both storytelling and character execution". "Kiddie-oriented" meaning "desperately trying to appeal to the 'tween' audience without realizing that some of 'em have brains".

Look at the rampant character and story derailment present in their Sonic series. Now compound that with Capcom's glorious canon track record, and you've got a horrific mess of a comic that couldn't find its own ass with both hands and a road map. Now, I'm not saying that it would be inevitable, because I do have SOME faith in Archie (I like their Sonic X). But, I've sat through enough Sally the [sonic slicer] and two-second "epic battles" to know that the chances of their MM being good aren't that great.


But stepping away from the Archie bashing...Let's talk about Option 2. The tone and settings of the comic, plus how much the characters look like themselves, all depends on when it was made. 1997 onward, it'd be pretty in-line with the games (and probably with the acid trip settings of MM8). By then, the tone of Classic MM had been firmly established.

1987-1996 is a different story. Archie could have taken far more liberties with MM then, since everyone else short of Capcom of Japan did anyway. I keep imagining elements that children of that era who weren't total shut-ins (like me) would find intimidating and challenging, like junkyards with huge "KEEP OUT" signs (Surely I won't wake up to find half of me in a Doberman's mouth!). Unfortunately, that time period leaves the project vulnerable to massive amounts of TOTALLY RADICAL. Remember the 90s? Remember those brightly-colored posters featuring kids who could easily be the disciples of Flava Flav? Now superimpose Megaman in there. Not so pretty, huh? In mild doses, TR could simply be cheesy and a fond reminder of the 90s. Heavy doses, you get the poor man's Wayne's World. With robots.


I could elaborate on Option 3, but it's getting late and I don't want my computer licensed revoked AGAIN. Anyone care to discuss?



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #1 on: November 24, 2008, 05:00:21 AM
Hmmm, interesting idea Gonzo.  Granted, you are correct in that an Archie MM adaptation could be way too kiddie, but I would be interested in seeing where exactly they went with it.  Personally though, if it was Classic Megaman, then I'd have no problem with the kiddie-ness, provided the stories were somewhat interesting.



Offline Protodude

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Reply #2 on: November 24, 2008, 05:37:20 AM
Option 2 sounds kind of hard to swallow, though option 3 sounds pretty good. Who knows what crazy adventures the R.S cast would have gotten into...


Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Reply #3 on: November 24, 2008, 05:42:48 AM
I honestly think that the best way to follow would be a continuation of the games' plots, including new characters from new releases into the plot in the best way possible.

Since the NAdMM's topic was nuked to hell with wherever hiccup happened, I can disclose here this was the route Peixoto was going to follow in a 4-issue Mega Man X mini-series that Rogério Hanata was signed on to draw. It was supposed to follow on X4 (no X5 at the time, kids), and Nástenka would be a recurring character as a survivor of Repliforce that for what I could gather would be bitter towards the Hunters, and also be X's love interest, while Zero dealt with the loss of Iris. Sigma should pop up as the mastermind as not to break the trend.

In the end, the publishing house scheduled to do the series bankrupted before the first issue ever emerged, and that's the last we heard of it.

Quote
The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
Quote
a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

--

Whenever it comes to "consensus" and things alike, always remember Tony Bullet-Tooth's sage advice:
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."


Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #4 on: November 24, 2008, 10:59:14 PM
Wait, there was going to be a Brazilian X4+ comic? I missed that. :/

Giving the "continue where the games left off" option some thought, Archie could easily fill the gaps between games, seeing how (up to 8 at least) they were self-contained. But there's also a high risk of plot holes that the fans would have to spackle in themselves (if Archie didn't go back and do that themselves--hopefully not through a half-assed retcon).

Option 3...for some reason, their TMNT series springs to mind. That was the same series that turned April O'Neil into a turtle. It could get MUCH worse than lioning eye rays--and that's why I'd want to see it, just to witness the kind of insanity that would ensue. As long as the story doesn't collapse on itself like NAdM's did (and Liefield didn't pencil it), I'd be fine.



Offline Gaia

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Reply #5 on: November 24, 2008, 11:27:33 PM
That's the reason why Netto acted like he did in the manga.  :|  I'd personally that the EXE manga was a wee closer to the games, but then, it was no continuation until the sub-plot "Bug Monster" came along. =/

I'd like to see a MM story outside the games that's accurate, but also enjoyable, wich is the problem. The Jap manga (Mega Mix is what I'm referring to here) never made it to the US, but I'd belive that a huge part of it had a chance to continue. Contrare to belive, I'd love to see a US MM comic. Archie.. I don't know. I just don't down-right trust the comic because I'd be sckeptical about the heavily influince about "Archie and Friends" that would pop up in the story, confusing the readers. *Insert Burger-shaped RM for the spirit of the Burger Miester here*

Marvel I don't trust either. I'd worry too much, but heavy cameos from the Marvel universe would kill the comic, or the comic would stray too far off the plot. (Likewise, X or Mega Man in a relationship while slowly Dr Wily/Sigma is an inch closer to dominate the world)

Wich is why it'd be a better option to leave the comic business to Lengends, it's comical, cute, and, serious.  just right for all audiences. (Seeing how it's perfect enough for a Manga/Comic spinoff would have business booming, enough for a Lengends 3)

Workshop/DA/YT/Photobucket なにかんがえてるの!?
So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

Yep, every time when someone mentions that game people get energized for an apparent reason whatsoever. It's like this everywhere else, trust me.

It got really messy to find my sprite and comic topic, so it's in my sig.


Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Reply #6 on: November 24, 2008, 11:36:33 PM
Wait, there was going to be a Brazilian X4+ comic? I missed that. :/
I never mentioned it. I was saving it for that "featurette" I would do if things boiled down to that, but I guess I'd better spend my energies somewhere else.

Back when Peixoto actually replied to my e-mails, he disclosed that's what he had to planned when the comic was supposed to go. Far as I know nowhere else this info was relayed on.

Quote
The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
Quote
a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

--

Whenever it comes to "consensus" and things alike, always remember Tony Bullet-Tooth's sage advice:
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."


Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #7 on: November 24, 2008, 11:44:30 PM
Hard to say about any "Archie and Friends" influences, outside a harem (I firmly believe that Archie created the harem comedy genre that we know today). Marvel, I wouldn't leave an adaptation to for two reasons: Epic Fail and Liefield. (When you advertise a fight, MAKE IT LAST BEYOND TWO PAGES AARGH)

You're right about Legends, though it could easily fall into episodic stagnation (like Monster of the Week without the monsters). 


I never mentioned it. I was saving it for that "featurette" I would do if things boiled down to that, but I guess I'd better spend my energies somewhere else.

Ah. Another comic bit the dust...



Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #8 on: November 25, 2008, 03:57:00 PM
The things about the fandom is that it's too concerned with things being like the games.  The best thing about Megamix is that we can't read it.  We can't complain about it's liberties.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing option 2.  Within limits.  Nothing as nuts as New Adventures.  But not quite as literal as "cutsey manga" MM.  Hell, I already know what happened in MM1!  How long do I have to wait until it gets past 9; when we finally get some new material?  Honestly, Dreamwave's take on MM wasn't *too* bad (probably the toine we'd likely get here if a new series ever shows up again), it's just that their comic production sucked.  Hyped up the comic only to be late with it ... making it a series and then just cancelling it and calling it a "mini" ... they ran it into the ground.

The Rubey Spears TV show is too niche now.  Whatever relevance it had is long gone. 


Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #9 on: November 25, 2008, 11:02:08 PM
Funny things is, no one complains about Megamix, even with RM Tanjou's scanlations. The liberties are treated as interesting instead of scandalous (like RS-MM's). I'm thinking it's because it's Japanese and even purists can't rag on a Japanese product. Glaaaa.

Have to agree about Option 3. That project would have to be mired in the mid/late-90s, and then it might suffer from Never Finished It Syndrome.



Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Reply #10 on: November 26, 2008, 12:24:00 AM
Maybe Megamix is actually good? I don't have weaboo glasses on, as I don't like Iwamoto's renditions much if at all, but what I read of Megamix (covering MM1 and 2) was nice enough to me.

The Mega Mission manga however is pretty bland and uninteresting if I do say so myself.

Quote
The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
Quote
a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

--

Whenever it comes to "consensus" and things alike, always remember Tony Bullet-Tooth's sage advice:
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."


Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #11 on: November 26, 2008, 12:44:05 AM
Maybe Megamix is actually good?

Can't argue with that. I just meant that purists/noobs like to bash on everything that isn't pure "Rockman" (like RS-MM. ESPECIALLY RS-MM.); by that logic, you'd think Megamix would get some flak regardless of quality.



Offline Wanda Bear

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Reply #12 on: November 26, 2008, 12:48:06 AM
"With this my dream will finally be realized!" A Sonic vs. Megaman or Sonic/Megaman crossover=  0v0 0v0 0v0


Home sweet home


Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Reply #13 on: November 26, 2008, 01:00:30 AM
Can't argue with that. I just meant that purists/noobs like to bash on everything that isn't pure "Rockman" (like RS-MM. ESPECIALLY RS-MM.); by that logic, you'd think Megamix would get some flak regardless of quality.
I guess if that's to be the case, bold indeed marks the gold.

But you know, it's been too long a while I've ever watched anything RS-MM... the only episode I have taped is Mega X (properly renamed Mega MAN X in Brazil), and that's it. I mean, it's an animated episode featuring promintently one of the characters in Rodrigo's Fictional Trinity, how the hell am I not supposed to have that?!

Either way, I even discussed some RS in a brazilian forum a while ago and someone complained that "Roll was useless". While housemaid weapons aren't exactly brilliant, she did do more than clean the house and serve as a damsel-in-distress (which we would only see in 2002 although the japs had seen it so much more earlier). So I think I get what you're saying, that people outright says everything in it is garbage when that's not the case. But when TOO MUCH of it is bad, inevitably the notion of people all around will always focus on the awful side. I know that far too well because that's the case with one of my childhood vices.

Quote
The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
Quote
a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

--

Whenever it comes to "consensus" and things alike, always remember Tony Bullet-Tooth's sage advice:
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."


Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #14 on: November 26, 2008, 01:07:31 AM
"With this my dream will finally be realized!" A Sonic vs. Megaman or Sonic/Megaman crossover=  0v0 0v0 0v0

LoL, but that would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

...I like it!   8)



Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #15 on: November 26, 2008, 01:35:27 AM
LoL, but that would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

...I like it!   8)
I am reminded of TMNT / Archie.

I agree that Megamix never recieves flack because it's a Rockman product.  If we couldn't read Dreamwave's comics, and if they were all released only in japan (so the lateness wouldn't factor) we might mistake them for a really good comic that we missed out on.

RS gets a lot of flack thanks to Mandi's MM HP.  It's one of the first things people read and ... well, when you first enter into something you are easily swayed.  That said, RS was pretty corny.  But it gets discredited for the wrong reasons.

Is RM Tanjou back yet or what? They should just put their stuff on on Rapuidshare and keep the forums as their main site.  Really, all their files were hosted off Photobucket, so I dunno why they couldn't just pick a free option ... it's gotta be less trouble than what they seem to be in right now.


Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #16 on: November 26, 2008, 01:42:23 AM
RS gets a lot of flack thanks to Mandi's MM HP.  ...  But it gets discredited for the wrong reasons.

What a lot of dissenters fail to realize is, had they gone with the original art style, the show never would've survived past the pilot or it'd acquire a huge female audience (because, you know, Megs is cute. Boys hate cute) and get retooled. But not to go off-topic...

Is RM Tanjou back yet or what? They should just put their stuff on on Rapuidshare and keep the forums as their main site.  Really, all their files were hosted off Photobucket, so I dunno why they couldn't just pick a free option ... it's gotta be less trouble than what they seem to be in right now.

It's kinda back, but without content. I, too, have to wonder why they don't just put up some .ZIP files on Rapidshare/Megaupload. [Too bad neither has a damned search function, or I'd just download the originals already]



Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Reply #17 on: November 26, 2008, 02:01:53 AM
I agree that Megamix never recieves flack because it's a Rockman product.  If we couldn't read Dreamwave's comics, and if they were all released only in japan (so the lateness wouldn't factor) we might mistake them for a really good comic that we missed out on.
I was part of the crowd that disagreed with people saying that Dreamwave's rendition of Mega Man was incredibly bad, had to be stopped, represented evil and that any kind of progress in the universe was impossible while it remained during it's release. But I don't think it makes the cut as "really" good. It's good, for sure, but that's the grade it fits in. IMO, course.

Then again, I hail from [tornado fang]ing NAdMM, so who knows? Either way I do think people give it more flack than it deserves, even if it has it's fair share of facepalm moments.

And on Mandi, I guess I kinda disagree with every little thing she states in her page, even back from the old days. I remember that she heavily criticized Mega X because "if time travel was so easily, why didn't they do something more effective?". In a mandatory crossover episode of a kids' cartoon? What the [tornado fang] are you expecting? Rock and Roll going to the future, Sigma saying he has an ace up his sleeve and then saying that he's going to send assassins to kill Dr. Light before he creates X and then Rock asks what they can do to stop him from doing it and Sigma replies:

"Do it? Rock, I'm not a republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I would explain my masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting it's outcome?

I did 35 minutes ago."

And then we're shown Vile, [tornado fang]ing, [tornado fang]ing going shoulder-cannon on Dr. Light or something.

For God's sake, this is fictional action! You know? James Bond? "Greetings, mr. Bond, I'm now going to explain my entire masterplan and then put you in a machine meant to kill you that doesn't work."? That's how grandpa did, that's how daddy does it, that's how Robbie Downie Jr. did it, and it's worked [tornado fang]ing well so far.

Thank you. Film at eleven.

Quote
The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
Quote
a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

--

Whenever it comes to "consensus" and things alike, always remember Tony Bullet-Tooth's sage advice:
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."


Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #18 on: November 26, 2008, 02:26:47 AM
As much as I don't want to bash Mandi (her video game coverage is legitimately helpful), her list of "annoyances" concerning RS-MM reads like a conga line of BAAAWWW. She ragged on Megaman's HAIR COLOUR for Christ's sake; if MM4 gave him blue hair, why can't Ruby-Spears give him brown? Yeesh. (NES restrictions, I know...but still. Blue hair.)



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #19 on: November 26, 2008, 02:42:44 AM
I was part of the crowd that disagreed with people saying that Dreamwave's rendition of Mega Man was incredibly bad, had to be stopped, represented evil and that any kind of progress in the universe was impossible while it remained during it's release. But I don't think it makes the cut as "really" good. It's good, for sure, but that's the grade it fits in. IMO, course.

For the record, I liked the Dreamwave comic.



Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #20 on: November 26, 2008, 02:47:42 AM
Mandi's page is very cool, but ... there's a degree of the fandom that's always taken her crits as gospel.  Now that I'm older I can see some flaws.  She's totally entitled to her opinion (indeed, reading opinions is what makes reading stuff fun), but some of the fandom read it and go "yeah, that sounds bad to me ... maybe they didn't finish Megaman 5..."

Whenever you read someone saying the RS crew didn't finish MM5 you've probably met someone who's opinion is derived from reading Mandi's MMHP.


Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #21 on: November 26, 2008, 02:54:48 AM
Personally, I don't understand how anyone could not like Super Fighting Robot.  It's full of the cartoon cheesiness that we've grown up with all our lives.  That's why I love it so much.  It doesn't take itself too seriously.  It's a cartoon.  Not every cartoon can be of Batman: TAS quality.  But, for a cartoon about MegaMan, I thought it was fun.  And this is coming from a Blues fanboy who saw his favorite character Shield-less and Evil.  The fact that he's voiced by one of the greatest VA's ever helps though!   8D



Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #22 on: November 26, 2008, 02:58:59 AM
I didn't get to see it on TV while I was growing up.  Never could find whe n it was on.  I was a Captain N kid tho. 


Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #23 on: November 26, 2008, 03:00:48 AM
Oh, me too.  Captain N was also cheesy and awesome, despite the Mega Shame for what they did to our beloved Characters!  XD



Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #24 on: November 26, 2008, 03:24:25 AM
I'm reminded of the Rockman OVAs.  When I first saw them, I (and I expect many others) were like:" holy crap!  It's so official looking it's scary!  Why did they not bring this over!?"

HOWEVER, when they brought it over  it was... "Holy crap!  This is targed exclusively to 5-8 year olds.  And I'm over 16."  I suppose that's the problem with MM.  I like MM, but the PTB will never, ever make a game or product befitting an older fan.  They'll slap a new MM in a new series, but never throw some darkness intot he origional. 

That said tho, the Archie TMNT comics were pretty good.  If they made a MM comic with that sort of level, I'm sure I could get into it.