Youtube Debate MM2 or MM3 (Timeline Updated)

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Offline Keno

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Reply #25 on: November 05, 2009, 04:15:10 AM
Yknow, now that I reflect upon it, I actually liked 3's Wily stage 4, not 2, best.
Well, 2 we're talking about is 3 & 4. You mean 5 I think.

Wily Stages in 5 rocks.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #26 on: November 05, 2009, 04:16:00 AM
I think he means the 3rd Wily stage song in MM3.  I'm not sure though.



Offline Keno

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Reply #27 on: November 05, 2009, 04:44:20 AM
Probably. I don't see how he could like it more than the second of the 3. It's just so much more dramatic & fitting for their final showdown.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #28 on: November 05, 2009, 04:45:55 AM
Granted, but it's still an underrated Wily Stage theme, IMO.



Offline Flame

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Reply #29 on: November 05, 2009, 05:06:31 AM
No I mean Mega Man 3, Wily stage 4. The one with the boss rematches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqWKAXSUsm4
^
this tune is my favorite.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #30 on: November 05, 2009, 05:10:40 AM
Oh okay, the 2nd Wily Stage song in the game.  Yeah, no doubt about how good that one is.  I agree that it's one of the most underrated Wily Stage songs ever.



Offline Keno

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Reply #31 on: November 05, 2009, 05:14:00 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTqp7jUBoA8[/youtube]
Yea, that's the one we've been talking about, Flame.



Offline Flame

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Reply #32 on: November 05, 2009, 07:04:00 AM
I know. I was just testing you.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Keno

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Reply #33 on: November 05, 2009, 07:18:32 AM
No way, liar.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #34 on: November 05, 2009, 07:19:55 AM
Hmmmmm, I wonder if I could make lyrics to that song and answer the question that this topic is all about...



Offline Flame

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Reply #35 on: November 05, 2009, 07:27:33 AM
No way, liar.

No way, im serious. otherwise, my pants would be on fire. *tries to hide smoke*

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Bag of Magic Food

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Reply #36 on: November 05, 2009, 10:35:52 AM
That reminds me, is there actually a proper use of the Spark Shock?
Playing the Game Boy game instead.   :D
That one lets you switch weapons while enemies are frozen, just like Ice Slasher.  But it only uses palette cycling for the frozen enemies, not an actual spark animation.   :\

MM3 was when the plot for Mega Man got ballsy & actually made Wily dead, until 4 [tornado fang]'d that all up, obviously. It was never really as implied as strongly as in 3 that this might be the final showdown, & I like to treat 1-3 as a separate story arch with that as an alternate ending. It's like how you have to look at pre-Trunks differently than post-Trunks.
Then who was flying the saucer in the ending?



Offline Zan

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Reply #37 on: November 05, 2009, 11:36:34 AM
Quote
Also, discussion over indeed. I liked 3's music better really. I swear, Ive heard Wily stage 1 from 2 SO many times, it is so overused, and over remixed, (almost all of which sound exactly the same) that I hate hearing it. 3's music never seems to get old though. especially that Wily stage 2.  That and Sparkman are my favorite tracks.

I believe that's simply a testimony of how much people like to remix 2's music over 3's. Though, IMO, the only true remix of Rockman2's Wily Stage1 is Capcom's official Rock remix.

Anyway, a place where 2 beats 3 by miles is the fact that the game has an actual prologue, complete with text visuals and music. That scene is amongst THE best in the whole series and is what gave birth to Rockman's own theme song. For all people preferring Wily Stage 1, I don't think it actually beats Rockman2's title music.



Offline Keno

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Reply #38 on: November 05, 2009, 09:35:56 PM
Then who was flying the saucer in the ending?
Proto Man, obviously.

Anyway, a place where 2 beats 3 by miles is the fact that the game has an actual prologue, complete with text visuals and music. That scene is amongst THE best in the whole series and is what gave birth to Rockman's own theme song. For all people preferring Wily Stage 1, I don't think it actually beats Rockman2's title music.
What you mean the theme of the whole [tornado fang]ing series? Yea, it's good for a reason.



Offline Zan

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Reply #39 on: November 05, 2009, 11:39:54 PM
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What you mean the theme of the whole [tornado fang]ing series?

Rockman2's title screen music is THE theme of Rockman. Being his theme song in Marvel vs Capcom, just as Roll has Kaze yo Tsutaete. It's the most recognizable piece of music that represents him.



Offline Keno

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Reply #40 on: November 06, 2009, 09:02:31 AM
It's also his theme, & the credits to the first game.



Offline Brahman

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Reply #41 on: November 06, 2009, 06:28:34 PM
This is a really good debate, and I guess I'll throw my two-cents in here.

Each game in the series has its strong points and weaknesses.  For example, the original game features some famous Robot Masters, a point system (which I happen to like), and an inability to save your game at all, which just ends up making it more challenging.  Each later game added something to the franchise, whether something relatively minor like a Rush Adaptor, or something big like the slide, buster, or the ability to access a store to purchase goodies at.  Some games don't feel as complete as others, perhaps because they were relatively rushed in design or because the designers were a bit lazy (MM6 comes to mind here).

When it comes to MM2 and MM3, both of these are favorites of mine.  Mega Man 2 introduced some major series staples, such as having a total of 8 RMs, E-Tanks, and a fortress with a map to it.  Mega Man 3, on the other hand, introduces the slide (which changes gameplay quite a bit), the idea of someone/something else being suspected for recent events, the introduction of Proto Man, and the inclusion of stages after the first 8 but before Wily's fortress.  Each game has a fun cast of Robot Masters (some really neat, some rather odd) and a memorable musical score.

If I had to rate these games, both of them would be in the "A" range, but I think Mega Man 3 would score about a point or two higher than MM2 (maybe a 94 or 95% for MM2 and a 96% or so for MM3).  I've always found MM3 to be a bit more challenging than MM2, not necessarily in the fortress or RM stages, but moreso with the Doc Robot stages.  The stage designs in MM3 were a bit more clever than in two, and I also really enjoyed its subtle graphical upgrades.  The music in MM3 is also quite nice, with some rather memorable tunes, though I think in that department MM2 would have the upper-hand (just think of how many songs from that game have been remixed!).  Even though MM2 receives so many hacks and all, I think MM3 deserves to have a few more well-done hacks.

I could probably go into a lot more detail on this subject, but I'll leave it at that for now.  ;)



Offline Bag of Magic Food

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Reply #42 on: November 06, 2009, 10:17:16 PM
It's also his theme, & the credits to the first game.
Or the credits to the fourth game, for the other part?



Offline Gatuca

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Reply #43 on: November 08, 2009, 06:19:19 AM
you know, now that i think on it, as much as i hate to say it, and as much as i like MM3, i cant help but feel that the game feels a little bit rush

plus most of the weapons sucks but shadow blade inst bad

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Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #44 on: November 08, 2009, 06:36:37 AM
Sadly, MM3 is rushed.  The controller 2 tricks, Rush firing without opening his mouth (they quit before finishing this), "Break man" being an anomaly (his transformation sprites are never seen so his final phase is more anomaly than cool), Rush Jet being able to fly anywhere including underwater, and glitches that allow you to select Rush early are only a few rough edges.  MM3 in the Wily Wars polished the game op a little bit, as did the gameboy game's tratment of some bosses and weapons.  Nevertheless, I tend to like MM3 more, especially because of unfinished glitches like godly Rush Jet and the controller 2 tricks.  

My personal music prefernce is MM3 over MM2.  I simply like more tracks from the game.  Although, again personally speaking, I like MM4 and 5's music over both MM2 and 3 (admittingly, I have not measured how many tracks I preffer in each game).  While MM3 is, overall, my favorite MM game, they did improve things as time went on.


Offline Bag of Magic Food

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Reply #45 on: November 08, 2009, 06:46:42 AM
Rush Jet could still fly underwater in MegaMan 4, actually; he only couldn't be summoned into water in that game.  So if flying underwater was something they wanted to fix, they only partially fixed it for the next game.



Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #46 on: November 08, 2009, 06:50:50 AM
That'd be on a list of bugs they didn't fix in MM4.  MM4 had bugs witht he Pharaoh Shot and the Megabuster as well, if I recall.  And you can kill Wily using the Rain flush.  No, MM4 is not perfect.

I'd be interested to know how Rush Jet behaves in the other MM games, especially the gameboy and WW games in regards to water.  I think I made some notes for WW, but ... *shruggs*.  However, it being able to be summoned in water is a bug, that's for sure.  It negates Rush Marine and was fixed in WW, if I recall correctly.  Rush Marine also immediately dissappears when you jump out of water: it's probably something they intended to put in the NES MM3 as well.  As is the extra "turning" sprite for Magnet Missiles.

Edit: MM2 is not perfect either.  You can access Wily's levels using some tricks at the end of some stages.  Collision detection is off and allows you to "zip" accross some levels as well.  Not as many things are unpolished as MM3, but MM2 does have some problems.


Offline Gatuca

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Reply #47 on: November 08, 2009, 07:15:14 AM
funny, because i do consider that the things that i think that are quite rushed, with the exception of the weaponry, are more like nitpicks, and oh well

here they are:

- When killing the Willy fortress bosses, they do just the normal explosion instead of the flashing screen explosion, it
   just feel really weak, especially with the yellow devil
- the way the pacing is made in the ending, feels too fast, the last cutscene should been onscreen for a little more
   and the music actually ends
- the physics of the Doc robots are terrible and choppy compared to the MM2 boss cast, the only ones that are
   at least right are Docbot Quickman and Docbot Metalman, but for example, Docbot Flashman is awful, and Docbot
   Woodman is pretty cheap, plus the lack of sounds in their attacks is quite dissapointing and even the animations
   are not right, again takin example of the Docbot Flashman

Then again, those are more like nitpicks, so they really dint count as much as it should be, besides, the Docbots are pretty challengin as well as the stages, (Docbot Needleman Stage is one of my favorite stages in the whole franchise), so i can ignore those

but the one that im really disappointed now is the weaponry, it sadly is bad, but then again MM5 had the WORST WEAPONRY in the megaman franchise, IMHO.

- Shadow Blade is OK, yes, it is an inferior version of the Metalblade, but it works well (Besides, i always liked more
  the Quick Boomerang in MM2)
- Needle Cannon, OK too, no problem there
- Magnet Missile, good, but it drains very quickly
- Search Snake...............well is the MM3 version fo the bubble lead, not bad, but not mandatory, you can
  beat the game without using it once, except of course if you want to defeat Gemini man faster (tough the irony is
  i used to use this weapon at the 2nd Form of Gamma, and at the time, i used to think it was the only way to defeat
  the boss.)

Now, the other Half

- Hard Knuckle, very faulty in my opinion, slow, and bg drainer, no really point for use it
- Gemini Laser, it doesn't look so bad, but the slowdown, and some hit detection, it make it really dorky
- Spark Shot, is lame, it only paralized weak enemies, but they still hit you, What?, and is useless agaisnt some
  small enemies, not only that, but is it me?, or this weapon looks like it should be the charge shot, you know like
  the Atomic Fire, i mean, spark man trow a big ball at you, so why not do the same thing.

And of course the infamous TOP SPIN,   O:<

- Its one of the worst weapons in general, i know what you are going to say, well it does cause a lot of damage
  when you hit on the enemies, well, ONLY agaisnt shadow man and Gamma 2nd Form, but everyone else, its useless,
  but why?, maybe because YOU CANT HIT ANYONE WITHOUT GETTING HIT, it seems like they tried to outdo the
  pogo stick attack form the Ducktales Games, that would been good if they did it right, or better yet, why not just
  give this weapon an effect ala Rockman 4 MI Hell Wheel Weapon?

That's 4 VS 4


but if may be hypocritical if i still said i think Megaman 3 is better than Megaman 2?

tough i dint really care about the glitches, they seemed really fun to me, and i will admit, i used to abuse them when i was a teen

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Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #48 on: November 08, 2009, 07:28:35 AM
To me, the rough edges don't matter in regards to which game is better.  I notice them now because I'm actively looking for them.

- The fortress bosses .... you're on the money there.  Except for the Triple clone, obviously.
- Doc Robot's animations less so.  There's a limited amount of memory to work with in a game like this, that's just reality.   I don't think his animations are unpolished.  However, the lack of sound effects would be a lack of polish.  I don't quite follow on the choppy physics comment.  Personally, I haven't noticed any difference in that regard.


Offline Bag of Magic Food

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Reply #49 on: November 08, 2009, 07:50:54 AM
Heh, I decided to test the rest of the NES and GB games just now about that Jet-in-water thing.  The second Game Boy game was the only one that completely blocks Rush Jet from entering water at all.  3, 4, and 5 for Game Boy all allow Rush Jet in water, but it's nothing to be thrilled about, since those games also lack Rush Marine completely, and Rush Jet has no vertical control in them at all.  Then I tried it in Mega Man 5 for NES, and Rush Jet could be summoned and flown through water there too!  Then again, that game also lacks Rush Marine, and the only level with actual pools of water is the third-to-last level, so you could explain it as a compromise or an oversight.  And if you want to want to count Jet MegaMan, then yeah, jets work just fine in Mega Man 6.  So it's starting to look as though not allowing Rush Jet in water is the aberration.

Edit: And now I've tested RockMan 7, and Rush Jet can enter water and fly just fine in that game too.  Wow, are people really remembering RockMan World 2 the best when it comes to rules for Rush Jet?