The Great Cateclysm: Silenced Forever?

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Offline Waifu

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on: February 04, 2009, 06:13:03 AM
Although the InfaKing has pretty said that Zero would never kill all the other MM characters, does that mean that the cateclysm has been silenced? He never did say what happen to the Classic characters in the X series or he may have implied it but I just didn't know about it or observe it. But was does this mean for all the so called cateclysm theories that had been thrown around for many years? I am hoping for someone like Zan or Hypershell to enlighten me on this.



Offline HyperSonicEXE

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Reply #1 on: February 04, 2009, 06:17:07 AM
I'm kind of playing Devil's Advocate here, but it's really suspicious how he qualified that statement. How "it wasn't in his personality/how [Keiji] designed him."

Well, yeah, maybe he didn't want Zero to have killed off the cast, but what did Capcom want to happen?



Offline Kieran

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Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 06:23:19 AM
We'll never know, since Inafune is really the only one at Capcom who ever talks about Megaman.

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Offline Protodude

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Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 07:06:06 AM
His "no killing policy" plus that statement really put the final nail in the coffin. Oh, Takeshita san also touched on the issue once:

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1UP: A lot of fans hoped that MM9 would bridge the story gap between the classic series and the X series, where it's hinted that the original Mega Man and his friends had all been killed at some point in the distant past. Do you ever intend to tell that story?

HT: This seems like a rumor that goes around in certain circles, but it is not official. Certainly, the two series are set in different time periods, but they share the same spectacular world. There might be a bridge for the chronological gap someday, but I don't think it's time yet.


Offline Zan

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Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 05:00:15 PM
Quote
   
The Great Cateclysm: Silenced Forever?

There will always be idiots that'll keep on believing it. Just like there are people that still believe X is Rock.



Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 06:45:42 PM
What I don't understand is how it just wasn't in his personality.  The X4 cutscene, which started the Cataclysm theory, clearly shows Zero as psychotic.  So how is "psychotic" not in his personality? 

Not saying that the Cataclysm theory holds water, but ... the answer's pretty fishy. 


Offline Align

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Reply #6 on: February 04, 2009, 06:53:31 PM
That was Wily-controlled (virus, I guess?) Zero rather than Zero left to himself, though..



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #7 on: February 04, 2009, 07:16:03 PM
Now wait a minute, gentlemen & ladies.  Let's not jump to conclusions here.  Perhaps the Cataclysm theory has been put to rest, but we have yet to explore the Cateclysm theory.  Perhaps Dr. Wily's LAST last creation, Cate, rose up and killed all the classic series bots, and then Zero awakened and put a stop to Cate's evil efforts, but then was infected himself with Cate's madness chip, so Dr. Wily sealed Zero up for 200 years in order to fulfill his desire.  But Zero awoke too early, and like the morning person he isn't, got cranky and went wild.

Prove me wrong!



Offline Acid

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Reply #8 on: February 04, 2009, 07:18:11 PM
They all died from old age.

Except for Roll.

She became Ciel.

You morons.



Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #9 on: February 04, 2009, 07:22:41 PM
That was Wily-controlled (virus, I guess?) Zero rather than Zero left to himself, though..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maverick_(Mega_Man) info here seem to contradict this idea.  Read the origins.  Not saying Wikipedia is 100% accurate, but ... I have heard the "Patient Zero" theory has been discredited.  Inafune's answer seems to be in conflict with this.   Not saying it's not what he intnded, but ... there's a missing piece of the puzzle there.


Offline Acid

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Reply #10 on: February 04, 2009, 07:24:55 PM
Probably made up Zero's story as they went along. On X4 he thought "Oh hey let's make him psycho, even though he was a nice guy in X1-X3."



Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #11 on: February 04, 2009, 07:27:31 PM
Probably made up Zero's story as they went along. On X4 he thought "Oh hey let's make him psycho, even though he was a nice guy in X1-X3."
That's what I'm guessing.  That flashback is also in conflict with Mav Hunter X (Sigma's eye scars). 


Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #12 on: February 04, 2009, 07:29:14 PM
... there's a missing piece of the puzzle there.

I think it's called shoddy video game writing.  That's my assumption. 



Offline Sub Tank

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Reply #13 on: February 04, 2009, 07:42:11 PM
Everyone knows that Rush killed all the characters from classic Megaman.

Why do you think X didn't have a dog?



Offline Acid

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Reply #14 on: February 04, 2009, 07:45:13 PM
Come to think of it.

X really needed a pet sidekick.



Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Reply #15 on: February 04, 2009, 07:49:50 PM
Come to think of it.

X really needed a pet sidekick.
But he has one, I don't think the gaming press would ever get it's facts wrong.

And the cateclysum lives on in our hearts.

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Offline Sub Tank

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Reply #16 on: February 04, 2009, 07:53:07 PM
I think it's Axl.

I don't think X ever toilet trained him, because he made a huge mess all over X7.



Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #17 on: February 04, 2009, 08:26:41 PM
Axl can turn into a pet sidekick.  Just let him copy Valguarder.


Offline Align

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Reply #18 on: February 04, 2009, 08:27:52 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maverick_(Mega_Man)
Is that bit about the origins copied verbatim from the compendium? I don't recall hearing that Dr Cain installed the 'suffering circuit' in Zero.



Offline Jericho

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Reply #19 on: February 04, 2009, 08:37:29 PM
That's what I'm guessing.  That flashback is also in conflict with Mav Hunter X (Sigma's eye scars). 

Wasn't the Maverick Hunter X series supposed to be a reboot of most of the storyline anyways? I think this one could be excused due to that. Also:

I think it's Axl.

I don't think X ever toilet trained him, because he made a huge mess all over X7.

Brilliance.



Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #20 on: February 04, 2009, 08:39:57 PM
Is that bit about the origins copied verbatim from the compendium? I don't recall hearing that Dr Cain installed the 'suffering circuit' in Zero.
Likely not.  But that is often quoted and seems to be as accuracte as we'll get.  Zan can fill you in more on it.  Or PB or Marshy.  My official stance is that it's a big mess.  BS, in other words.  

I wish the sourcebooks were directly translated, so we could be smarter about this.  But .... won't happen.  

Quote
I think this one could be excused due to that.

I disagree and call shinnanigans on Capcom.  They obviously just forgot about X4 covering it and put it into Mav X.  They need to get their stories stright. 


Offline Zan

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Reply #21 on: February 04, 2009, 08:47:20 PM
Quote
What I don't understand is how it just wasn't in his personality.

Inafune never said "personality", he said it wasn't in his profile. As in, establishing Zero's background, he never once intended Zero to do such a thing. And you know, absolutely everything in the games says that is the case. He was sealed by Wily for the future, the only thing he did prior was being constructed.

Quote
Prove me wrong!
Quote
They all died from old age.
Quote
Everyone knows that Rush killed all the characters from classic Megaman.

Nobody died, nobody killed.

1UP: A lot of fans hoped that MM9 would bridge the story gap between the classic series and the X series, where it's hinted that the original Mega Man and his friends had all been killed at some point in the distant past. Do you ever intend to tell that story?

HT: This seems like a rumor that goes around in certain circles, but it is not official. Certainly, the two series are set in different time periods, but they share the same spectacular world. There might be a bridge for the chronological gap someday, but I don't think it's time yet.


Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maverick_(Mega_Man) info here seem to contradict this idea.  Read the origins.  Not saying Wikipedia is 100% accurate, but ... I have heard the "Patient Zero" theory has been discredited.  Inafune's answer seems to be in conflict with this.   Not saying it's not what he intnded, but ... there's a missing piece of the puzzle there.

Wikipedia is filled with bullshit by people who neither understand RZOCW nor can read obvious disclaimers that says certain info is not canon.

Someone who maybe Wily put the Sigma Virus inside Zero. That much is FACT. Just as much fact as that the Virus transferred to Sigma. RZCOW says nothing else, "Zero is the first infected with the Sigma Virus."

RZOCW's Three Keys Sigma Virus section is non-canonical vagueness, nothing concrete, nothing that retcons, nothing factual. Only the statements that align with the canon sources are to be considered.

That section says the following:
The true essence of Sigma Virus is the circuit of mental suffering that Right put in X. Nothing is said of the origin of Sigma Virus, only such a vague thing as an essence (The essence of Sigma Virus is what? Control of all Repliroids! To awaken Zero!) RZOCW dodges the matter of the essence of Sigma Virus and continues to describe the function of the circuit of mental suffering as it should function in all Repliroids to avoid bias between human and Repliroids (robots) in a society where both coexist.
It then continues to say that Zero is the first infected, and events led to Zero, who was created by Wily to be a complete evil Repliroid, becoming good despite his infection. Which is the introduction to the point that Zero unknowingly spread the Virus from within him during missions, which leads to his admission in the research institute.

Seriously, NOTHING in RZOCW disagrees with Wily creating the Virus to put inside of Zero to awaken him to his true evil self. Why would Wily not have made it when Perfect Memories says that Wily maybe the one that did it?! Why bother making up convoluted stories about evil personality programs and circuits magically merging when X8 Sigma (made after RZOCW!) says that the Sigma Virus that infected him came from Zero's DNA?! If X5 didn't slap you in the face with it yet, Zero Virus and everything, you're talking about the same Virus that brought Wily back to life!

For completion's sake, here's the quote I mentioned from Perfect Memories:

Exactly what kinds of secrets are sleeping in Zero's past?
Zero has almost no memory of the past.  However, sometimes he seems to see a person resembling Dr. Wily in his dreams.  And it's also said that Zero was born with the Sigma Virus already inside of him. His creation is it actually to battle with whom?  One would never think it was for justice, however...
X: He was made by Dr. Right.  Will the time for his fated battle with Zero come?
Dr. Wily: The one who put the Sigma Virus in Zero is, perhaps him......




Quote
Probably made up Zero's story as they went along. On X4 he thought "Oh hey let's make him psycho, even though he was a nice guy in X1-X3."

Except he was psycho in X2's alternate scenario and was already said to be made by Wily back then.

Quote
That's what I'm guessing.  That flashback is also in conflict with Mav Hunter X (Sigma's eye scars).

If Zero inflicted Sigma's eye scars, half his face would be purple. Sigma got repaired, plain and simple. Not to mention, it's his own choice that he's keeping those scars. He's died over a dozen times, his face too got remade 'again and again'. It's simply symbolism that relates to the two people that led to Sigma's philosophy of evolution and rebellion, X and Zero. His tattered pride, the Virus, Limitless Potential and justice.






Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #22 on: February 04, 2009, 09:02:43 PM
There's author intent on those eye scars.  Obviously he could get them repaired, so it's not a plot hole, but it's still inconsistant in my book.

As for the rest, though I'm not inclined to disagree.  I don't have the sourcebooks and none of them are properly translated.  It's possible you're right and Wikipedia's entry is full of fanon.  You're a much bigger fan of the X series than I am.


Offline Zan

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Reply #23 on: February 04, 2009, 09:12:56 PM
Of course, it's fanon. You just have to flip open and read the respective pages on MMZOCW to realize that. The particular section might have a very bad official translation, but that's no excuse for people to ignore the disclaimer:

Page 166:
Sigma Virus
ZERO1
A terrifying Virus that makes Reploids go Maverick. Initially, Zero was the only one infected with the Virus, but as he traveled the world to battle Mavericks, he unwittingly spread the Virus.

Page 167:
Underground Laboratory (Forgotten Laboratory)
ZERO 1
The facility built to house Zero, who was discovered to be the source of the Sigma Virus outbreak. For half a century, Zero was used in many Sigma Virus-related experiments. This laboratory is also where Ciel's ancestors studied Cyber-elves, and where Weil created Omega. But because all records of its existance were wiped from history by Neo Arcadia, only a select few still know where it is.


Page 174:
THE THREE KEYS TO SOLVING THE MYSTERY OF ZERO AND OMEGA.

Zero and Omega are two Reploids with a very complex bond, and they engage in a memorable battle in Zero 3.  Here, we examine the background information regarding the three key elements that tie these two together in an attempt to reveal some previously unknown angles to the story.
(NOTE; The information that follows comes from the early concept phases for the Zero series' scenario, and therefore may not be canonical.")

Sigma Virus
The dreadful Sigma Virus that transforms repliroid to irregular.
(The terrifying virus that causes a Reploid to go Maverick.)

The true essence of which, was a suffering circuit Right inserted into X during the time of his creation.
(The virus actually originated from one of the circuits that Dr. Light installed in X's brain.)

A repliroid which possesses a suffering circuit,
in regards to a society where humans and repliroids coexist,
so as to be biased towards neither side,
it is fated always to worry continuously as to which side it should stand upon.

(The circuits function was to keep X neutral and unbiased in matters concerning humans and Reploids. Tragically, the very same circuit condemned X to a life plagued by the philosophical question that weighed the value of humans against that of Reploids - a question to which there was no answer. )


Zero was the first repliroid to be infected with the Sigma Virus but
Zero which was developed by Wily to be a completely evil repliroid,
despite being infected by Sigma Virus isn't transformed into an iregular, [instead]
was reborn as a good repliroid.

(Zero was the first Reploid to be infected by the virus, but as an android created solely for evil, destructive purposes by Dr. Wily, the virus affected him uniquely.  Instead of going Maverick, the virus turned Zero into a warrior driven by goodness, not evil.)

But,
as Zero bustled about for the sake of fulfilling his missions as an Iregular Hunter
the Sigma virus lying dormant within his own body was scattered throughout the world
inviting an ironic result.
And so Zero, having become carrier of the Sigma Virus, was admitted to the research facility.

(Unfortunately, by tirelessly fulfilling his destiny as a Maverick Hunter, Zero inadvertently spread the virus throughout the world.  Eventually, as the host of the virus, Zero was taken to a research facility for study.)








Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #24 on: February 04, 2009, 09:22:27 PM
You say "of course", but nobody has done a a full translation of the materials.  From my perspective what is and is not fanon is all very questionable.

Although here I'm not inclined to disagree.