RockmanPM Forums
Other Things => Off The Wall => Entertainment => Topic started by: Quickman on June 04, 2014, 09:53:50 PM
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Wisconsin girls charged with first-degree intentional homicide (http://www.wgal.com/national-news/Man-to-stabbed-girl-Who-did-that-to-you/26326820)
Two 12-year-old girls concocted a plan to stab another girl in order to appease Slenderman. The brother of one of the girls never suspected that his sister would go that far, saying that she simply liked creepypasta. The girls will be tried as adults.
Creepypasta.com does not condone the girls' actions, nor does it encourage any violence against others and has issued a statement saying so, also expressing their condolences.
Looks like someone forgot to be taught the difference between fantasy and reality and will have to learn the hard way that actions have consequences.
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I was going to post about that today if you didn't, I'm just amazed that Slendy of all things is what made them do it. Or rather that Slendy was still relevent enough for the 12 years onlds to worship him.
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See, that's what the absolute fun-vacuum of Wisconsin does to people. It turns them into potential murderers. -AC
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They're also facing up to 65 years in prison each because of this.
I also find it interesting that creepypasta had to note that everything on their site is fictitious in that statement, though it makes sense why.
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After all those Death Note incidents, this doesn't seem too surprising. Sure, writing in the Death Notes didn't actually kill their classmates, but it shows what fiction can potentially do to young minds.
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After all those Death Note incidents, this doesn't seem too surprising. Sure, writing in the Death Notes didn't actually kill their classmates, but it shows what fiction can potentially do to young minds.
That's like saying Violent Video games cause kids to kill people or be assholes because a guy in GTA did it.
Its just kids imitating what they think is cool, kids are stupid and people need to understand that and apply cautious parenting and such.
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They're also facing up to 65 years in prison each because of this.
I also find it interesting that creepypasta had to note that everything on their site is fictitious in that statement, though it makes sense why.
It's because the statments of the girls who tried to murder their friend made it sound like creepypasta.com was a site for a cult dedicated to the worship of Slendy instead of a site where people with too much time on their hands make and creepy shock horror stories for the shock/thrill of it, despite the quality of it. Clearly the girls were sociopaths and need mental help.
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That's like saying Violent Video games cause kids to kill people or be assholes because a guy in GTA did it.
Its just kids imitating what they think is cool, kids are stupid and people need to understand that and apply cautious parenting and such.
And imitation can lead to murder and/or attempted murder. It depends on what the kid is imitating.
Stabbing this girl can also be a form of imitation. Stalking their prey just like Slendy and killing them.
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And imitation can lead to murder and/or attempted murder. It depends on what the kid is imitating.
Stabbing this girl can also be a form of imitation. Stalking their prey just like Slendy and killing them.
I call it cultist sacrifice since they only decided to go with the hide and seek since they were considering other options like the one where they stabbed her in bed. The important thing to them was that they wanted to kill her, not how they wanted to kill her, because they worship Slendy as a god or equivalent of a god and wanted to be his acolytes.
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Also they thought Slenderman lived in an old house nearby. And thought they'd actually talked with him.
These girls were definitely missing a few screws.
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Also they thought Slenderman lived in an old house nearby. And thought they'd actually talked with him.
These girls were definitely missing a few screws.
Oh wow that one I didn't hear from the stuff I read, mind posting a link about it?
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Here you go (http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/waukesha-police-2-12-year-old-girls-plotted-for-months-to-kill-friend-b99282655z1-261534171.html)
It's kinda buried in a chunk of text about a third of the way down.
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Yeah that's pretty detailed, and confusing with the accounts.
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Yeah, my local news didn't have a very detailed account.
Again, though, I refer to my previous statement of the girls failing to learn the difference between fantasy and reality. This is a responsibility that falls on the parents, as they need to be mindful and teach their kids.
Also, Slendy the "leader" of Creepypasta? Yeah no.
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Yeah that's pretty true, very disturbing that kids as old as 12 thought that Slendy was real.
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Last night, I listened to a segment of Darkness Radio that detailed the case. Dave Schrader brought up a few things about one of the girls' folks. This is not to condemn all parents who share similar interests, but methinks that the home life should at least be looked into, considering that the girl couldn't discern fantasy from reality.
The father, who was mentioned the most, is a death metal fan, and this was only brought up because he posted something on Instagram months prior. While out for dinner, his daughter drew a stick figure of Slendy on a napkin with crayon and he posted it on Instagram and proudly proclaimed that only his daughter would draw Slendy on a napkin.
Thus, he was fully aware of his daughter's obsession, but neglected to talk to her about it. How did he not know that his daughter had been planning a murder since freakin' December?!
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Parents can be idiots.
I remember hearing a news report about this teenager who stored ammunition underneath his bed.
The parents' response? "We did not know anything about this."
EDIT: Looking at this post, I realized I completely failed to convey what I wanted to. What I meant to say is that parents are idiots.
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This is another thing that once again falls on the parents. The parents need to be mindful of what their kids are up to, particularly if the kids are young and are living on the Internet as much as this girl apparently was.
At the age of twelve, it is illegal for a child to be active online without parental supervision. This is something I've helped enforce elsewhere. Various wikis will attract younger people, and I've had to ban people for being under the age of thirteen, and Wikia implemented a feature on other wikis that prevents guests from editing.
The girls' interests should have been monitored. Their parents should have taken the time to talk to them, particularly if they were crazy obsessed. If your kid was obsessed with Slenderman and you noticed it, wouldn't you talk to them? Try to get into their world?
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Initially, I was willing to let the parents slide on this one, providing they lacked the knowledge of who Slenderman is. Perhaps they just thought he was a harmless cartoon character like Spongebob and shrugged it off.
But if the parents know full well how disturbing Slenderman is... then yeah, I can't really defend anyone here.
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Even if the subject was harmless, parents should still take the time to get into their kids' world. If your kid is crazy-obsessed with anything, regardless of the subject matter, you should find out why. This obsession provides the opportunity to teach the child the difference between fantasy and reality.
This case will once again bring about a witch hunt and parents will be cracking down once again on games, particularly violent games. Since the one girl's parents are Goths, then Goths will become scrutinized. Creepypasta itself will be targeted. These hunts will prove futile because it's not the media that causes stuff like this to happen. The responsibility to teach children the difference between fantasy and reality falls squarely on the parents. Blaming the media is a cop-out.
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I don't know I think the Dad at least was connecting with his daughter since he knew who Slendy was and was okay with her interest. The brother was also very aware of how she liked creepy pasta and Slendy in general, but he said that she acted normal despite her tastes. You have to remember sociopaths can act completely normal despite the fact they aren't.
Besides if you were planning a murder and running away from home to go to some guy you thought was a god you wouldn't mentioned to your parents 'oh by the way I'm going to murder one of my friends to appease Slenderman and become his proxy I'll send you some letters when I go to him bye'.
Some kids like creepy [parasitic bomb] and that's actually normal, her family was aware of this and thought she was normal, but she was able to fool them into thinking she was normal when clearly she was not. It's especially worse in the fact that she had friends and was talking to them well enough, if she was a loner that would have raised a flag but she clearly wasn't.
Now that isn't to say that I'm not blaming the parents, but I can understand how they couldn't have known.
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Of course the kids aren't going to come right out and say that they're planning to kill someone. It still doesn't hurt to become more involved with the child and their interests. To have a casual knowledge is just that; a casual knowledge. If your kid is obsessed to the point that this is their entire life and they believe in a fictitious character, then you need to step in. You need to learn more about their interest, not just about the interest itself.
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Well either the two have some kind of mental issue that they seriously tried to appease a horror figure by stabbing a girl to near-death, real character or no,
or it's what their lawyer told them to say since the victim wasn't actually killed, which is just as likely
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I'm hoping they get psychiatric help. Tossing them in prison would end up being far more detrimental to their already-fragile psyches.
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Well either the two have some kind of mental issue that they seriously tried to appease a horror figure by stabbing a girl to near-death, real character or no,
or it's what their lawyer told them to say since the victim wasn't actually killed, which is just as likely
Well, what else could it be besides mental issues?
Whether it's what the lawyer told them to say or not, those girls are bonkers, plain and simple.
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Considering the initial testimonies without a lawyer present (last I checked, one of the girls hasn't even gotten a lawyer.), then it's looking far less likely that this is an insanity plea.
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An insanity plea would certainly be the better way to go, rather than the alternative.
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An article concerning a child's ability to separate fantasy from reality. (http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/living/slenderman-stabbing-questions-for-parents/)
I'll give the article credit as it doesn't outright blame the media and one of the quotes actually says that parents need to do a better job of providing the right kind of guidance to their kids.
QuickEdit: More details concerning the case (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/06/slender-man-wisconsin-stabbing-horrifying-details.html)
One of the girls claims that Slendy can read her mind.
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Update: The victim has been released from the hospital.
Also, the witch hunt has begun, (http://jezebel.com/look-out-father-of-teen-held-in-slender-man-stabbing-1586225580) and at least one journalist isn't happy.
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Ohio Stabbing Linked to Slenderman (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/slenderman-link-to-a-second-stabbing-in-hamilton-county-ohio/)
The relation to Slenderman in this case is tenuous at best. It's looking like a witch hunt to me. The girl in this case has documented mental health issues, which should be the primary focus of the investigation. Slendy himself is extraneous.
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Seriously? God dammit people!
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Man... That was painful to read as well... Falling into darkness even.
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I still hope the other 2 girls can get some mental help, I mean they shouldn't get off scott free like some are insinuating but really they need the mental help more.
Also why would a mom leave a 13 year old girl with mental issues alone at home?
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Mental problems don't necessarily mean that the person is incapable of taking care of themselves. Many people with schizophrenia live independently.
Also, the term "mental issues" is very vague, as it wasn't alluded to what kind of mental issues. Other articles mention that she "was not herself" and has no recollection of the incident. It may have occurred during a dissociative fugue state, which would indicate a dissociative disorder.
Other details reveal dark writings on the topic of killing, but Slenderman, while mentioned, is just that; mentioned. The girl made a world in Minecraft for Slendy (better hunt down the Minecraft players... ::) ), and mentioned him in her writings, but as for Slendy being a direct cause, it's unfounded. It's circumstantial.
If this girl has documented mental health issues, then steps should have been taken to get her the proper care. Obviously, since she has long been plagued by this, they haven't.
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And it falls back to the parents.
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And it falls back to the parents.
It always does unfortunately. I know that at least my little cousins do things besides play with their iPad like reading and T-Ball plus the family goes out to do activities often so I don't have to worry about them being raised by TV despite the disabilities of the parents and money issues.
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I was partially raised by TV, look how well I turned out! *twitch*
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I was partially raised by TV, look how I turned out! *twitch*
I know I kind of was but I still went to the park and did extra curricular activities.
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But I have noticed that TV nowadays is more... Skewed. That's not to say all TV is bad, just need to be careful with what you watch and such, and with who.
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But I have noticed that TV nowadays is more... Skewed. That's not to say all TV is bad, just need to be careful with what you watch and such, and with who.
It kind of is, Cartoon Network is a lot more mature that it was in the 90's and early 2000's. It really started getting weird when I got to high school and suddenly the word crap was said every once in a while and Nickelodeon has more shows that are not cartoons anymore either. That and the standards of cartoons now a days are really low, but that could be my bias talking.
Then we have the news which some people pointed out seems partially responsible for not censoring dead bodies and violence as they should, along with the fact that Americans supposedly are desensitized to violence but really is it any surprise?
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Psyduck, what is the world coming to...
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And Disney Channel is full of teen and kid sitcoms, make that of what you will.
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Parents should provide proper guidance to their children and be mindful of the media their children are exposed to. It comes down to exercising common sense.
If your kid sees something that you wouldn't let them otherwise see, discuss it with them. Turn it into a learning experience.
When Ringman and I were really young (two and four, respectively), we were taken to the drive-in for a double-feature. However, the projectionist ran the horror movie first. So, our first movie-going experience was Return to the Night of the Living Dead. Our folks helped ease the shock of horrific imagery by pointing out the obviously fake blood and the goofy faces of the zombies.
We're horror buffs, but we didn't go on killing sprees. We like to read and even write horror, but we won't entertain the idea of actually killing someone. Hell, I have documented mental health issues, but I'm not completely out of my gourd!
The media doesn't make people bad. It's the lack of guidance from others that contributes to potentially harmful behavior/decisions.
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Woa. I still remembering watching The Blob on TV, which was strangely at a primetime slot, and some of the imagery still haunt me today. My parents changed the channel immediately after a certain scene, but... Yea.
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Honestly I was never really exposed to horror and was never interested. Then I found it scary now I find it boring, at least shock horror. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate horror, I liked Frankenstein and Dracula, Marx from Kirby is still the creepiest thing ever, that movie with the people being replaced by plant pods or something was genuinely entertaining and I will always say that I love Who Framed Rodger Rabbit for that insane villain, along with the story.
Plus not to mention the other creepy things spread into something that seems totally innocent. You have ti use your imagination after all.
EDIT: Ah finally it was Invasion of the Body Snatchers I was thinking of.
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The horror genre (that includes creepypasta, as that's a subgenre of horror and more akin to urban legends) itself is not bad. Horror stories have existed since Man could weave a tale by firelight. Horror is not everyone's cup of tea, yes, but it in and of itself is not bad and does not spawn serial killers—unless they're fictional.
This is gearing up to become just another witch hunt. Back in the day, comics were to blame. It was a relatively new media that adults at the time were not very knowledgeable of. Thus, you had stories of kids jumping out of windows, because they thought they could fly like Superman. You had stories of kids committing violent crimes because they read EC Comics' fare like Crime SuspenStories, Weird Science, and The Vault of Horror. Dr. Fredric Wertham became a household name with his book analyzing this supposed crime-comic correlation, Seduction of the Innocent.
Flash-forward to the early 90s. Doom has just hit PCs. It's a gory demonic mess that's enjoyed by young and old. Then comes the Columbine school shooting and the perpetrators had made Doom level mods (which weren't that great, by the way. They're still available to play, and they're poorly-done). Suddenly, Doom is bad.
Early-Naughties rolls around. You suddenly start seeing cases which blame Grand Theft Auto. GTA and similar games are now the target of parental watchdog groups everywhere. Do you know what your kids are playing?
Slenderman and creepypasta is just next in line to be the next media scapegoat, mainly because once again, parents are not providing proper guidance, are not knowledgeable about the material, and are quick to pin the blame onto something that they don't understand.
For the record, Dr. Wertham became an advocate for the comic industry in the 70s, and having read part of his book, he actually researched comics. Whether or not you agree wi his arguments, you could see the education and research behind his conclusions.
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Interesting, that book sounds interesting. At least he did in-depth research to support his findings and such.
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Yeah really I wish parents had my love for researching media, I don't care about spoilers I want to see what it is so I can understand it before I watch.
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Interesting, that book sounds interesting. At least he did in-depth research to support his findings and such.
It's been reprinted, so you can get it on Amazon at a decent price. I started reading it because it came in a comics torrent. It's interesting, particularly if you're a comic historian, but it can be a challenge to read. The prose is that of a textbook.
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Meep, textbooks.
... Torrent eh? -_-
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Um, actually Wertham's "research" has been found out to be falsified. (http://io9.com/5985199/how-one-mans-lies-almost-destroyed-the-comics-industry)
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The omission of details of the kids' lives we knew about. We didn't get to the Batman chapter yet, hence why I neglected to mention it. I was covering the crime and horror comics, which I have read. In the first few chapters, he discusses the "injury to the eye motif" which were quite prevalent in a number of EC Comics that I had read.
The research into the comics was what I was discussing, not the cases. For the most part, from what I've read in the book and could compare to the comics mentioned that I've also read, the research was for the most part correct.
Ringman and I did discuss the case studies presented, as they were quite fragmented. But we still gave credit where credit was due, as the one place he did his research was in the comics.
This was my argument; Wertham researched the media. Many media watchdog groups do not do this and their claims as to what certain things contain are wildly inconsistent with the claims by people who actively consume the media that they are targeting.
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Ahhh... Still interesting reads.
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I question how much research he actually did. I don't trust liars.
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According to the article, the research was actually there, at least some of it. For the purposes of the book, case studies were changed and divided to be different people. I can actually see why he would do this, too. It's like changing names, and some details, which happens all the time.
The thing is, if someone's case history made it into a book and their friends and associates could tell that it was them, then it could ruin their reputation and they would have a viable position to sue for slander. For books like this, omitting certain details and modifying case studies helps to prevent such things from occurring.
You'd be surprised just how many professionals do this. This isn't the first I've heard about such accusations, nor is Wertham the first to be on the receiving end.
Psychiatrists and psychologists operate under HIPPA, and they need to maintain patient confidentiality. Patients are often used in medical journals and related texts, but their names are omitted. For the purposes of a mass-market text, details concerning a patient's case would be omitted, cases would be changed, etc. Nowadays texts will come with a notice explaining this, but back then, I don't think it was required, as what Wertham was discussing was a relatively new field.
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For the record, I don't trust psychiatrists & psychologists much either. XD Because experience has shown me that they have a ton of their own issues to deal with that they DON'T deal with. Instead they try to help others so they don't have to deal with their own [parasitic bomb].
As for Wertham, this is what gets me.
Wertham constantly omitted relevant details about these kids' lives.
This isn't a case of omission for confidentiality reasons. This is a blatant case of not putting in OR ignoring certain details to further his own misguided views, views which helped seriously damage an industry. People like him are what get shows like Batman Beyond and such cancelled, because they wrongly believe that the "excessive violence" (which is laughable) should be censored. This study was a placebo, like most "it's the music" or "it's the video games" bullshit reasoning for why certain people do certain things.
But now we know that Wertham buried evidence that his subjects were often violent and sexual long before they read comics. And more importantly, they suffered from social and cultural disadvantages that no doubt contributed far more to their troubles than Batman did.
When things like background and [parasitic bomb] are omitted to help further your own agenda, it puts the entire credibility of the research itself in question. Research or not, what this man and other men like him do is dangerous and wrong.
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The guy almost ruined the comic industry by not including everything about the kids background? I certainly wouldn't trust the guy either.
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He did later become an advocate for the comics industry in the 70s.
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He did later become an advocate for the comics industry in the 70s.
Well that's good.
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Indeed, and I'm willing to forgive him since he turned his opinions around.
Also, the comics correlation was originally brought up as an example of a media scapegoat, as it's the best example out there. I'm hoping that Slendy and creepypasta don't become the next media scapegoat. We don't need another Dr. Fredric Wertham.
Just an aside, Wertham's "cameo" in JLU with his "The Innocent Seduced" book in a segment about a media pontiff railing against the Justice League was cute and gave me a good chuckle.
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Morgan Geyser to undergo competency hearing (http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80476030/)
The girl with the worst of the Slenderman delusions is scheduled to have a competency hearing to determine if she is competent to stand trial. Competency hearings are essentially court-run psych evals, but conducted specifically to determine if a person is able to stand trial. No diagnosis will be made from this hearing.
This is a good first step, but the girl also needs a comprehensive psychiatric evaluation. Just because the court (might) deem her as mentally competent doesn't mean that there's still not something else going on.
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I hope they follow up with that other eval.
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Judge deemed hearing violates Fifth Amendment rights (http://www.jsonline.com/news/waukesha/judge-halts-insanity-exam-for-girl-bizarre-slender-man-stabbing-b99307358z1-266289441.html?ipad=y)
Two doctors in limited interviews have determined Morgan Geyser to be mentally incompetent to stand trial, as she may not be fully aware of the nature of her actions and the charges against her. She was scheduled to have a competency hearing to determine if she is able to stand trial, and the results of it could be used in an insanity plea later.
However, the hearing would involve her discussing the incident, and that can be turned over to the state, thus violating her Fifth Amendment rights against self incrimination.
Needless to say, this is a setback in the case. Geyser is the most troubled of the two girls and the most in need of psychiatric intervention. If she can't get the right evaluation or sway the court into pursuing an insanity plea, then she'll be another of the many mentally ill individuals who have fallen through the cracks and languish in prisons without proper rehabilitation.
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Well that just sucks.
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An interesting article (http://jezebel.com/many-teen-girls-secretly-empathize-with-slender-man-sta-1601266997) about how other girls feel about Geyser and Weier. It's nice to see the opinions of people of similar age, rather than what adults think, as due to a witch hunt mentality and overall lack of exposure to common Internet memes, adult perception can be heavily skewed.
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I'm really glad I never had trouble with bullying, even though I never had close girl friends in the first place, but yeah the bullying problem in schools can be pretty bad. I once had a friend who got the [parasitic bomb] beat out of him, for some reason, before Spanish class but he was suspended for a few days for fighting back. I never really understood what was wrong with defending yourself when someone is literally punching you in the face.
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Lawyer Seeks Weier's Records (http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/07/17/4241092/lawyer-in-stabbing-case-seeks.html)
After Morgan Geyser had been declared mentally incompetent, the lawyer of Anissa Weier, the second girl charged in the case, now seeks her records, which will determine if she should also have a competency hearing.
As for Geyser's halted hearing, she would need to submit a plea of insanity first, which she has not yet done.
There are still discussions of moving the case to juvenile court.
In terms of my opinion on Weier's competency, she was the one who was quoted as having second thoughts as the two were attacking their friend. She seems to have it a bit more together than Geyser, but with how she readily followed Geyser, then she seems just as misguided. The two need proper guidance, and due to the nature of this case, it's clear to me that such guidance was not going on in either household.
I can't really say that much for certain with Weier, as we know less about her home life than we do Geyser.
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Court Finds Slenderman Suspect Incompetent (http://www.wgal.com/national/court-slenderman-suspect-incompetent/27269342?absolute=true)
The descriptions of her behavior in court, along with some of her claims makes me wonder what was going on in Geyser's home to have her be so mentally immature. I mean, it's one thing to be imaginative (and for the record, I believe in unicorns. That's a very trivial detail as lots of people believe in unicorns.), but some of her claims go a bit beyond the usual childhood imaginative play.
I'm wondering if there's not already something going on with her that her parents never truly picked up on, and thus she was never properly evaluated and treated for it. It makes me sad, really.
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Wow, that's pretty disturbing.
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She claims she can speak with the Ninja Turtles? That's... random. Well, even MORE random, anyway.
Before this, I only thought she believed in horror figures.
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I have no doubt the Turtles are very disappointed in her.
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Yikes, I knew that bad creepypastas will rot your brain, but this is redonkulous. It reminds me of this really bad Jeff the Killer rip-off based on Walmart (yes, something like this exists, unfortunately) where the main villain gets superpowers or some crap for going bonkers.
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Authorities say that teen is obsessed with Slenderman (http://www.wfla.com/story/26448567/pasco-girl-14-accused-of-trying-to-kill-family)
I heard about this one while listening to an episode of Darkness Radio. The connection to Slenderman is tenuous at best, and it seems like the authorities are grasping for straws.
This is looking like an annoying trend of copycats. Ugh. Kids these days...
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Why Soul Eater of all things, was it the parts about Medusa abusing Crona that set her off? Also I love how they called it an online book instead of a comic book even though it's a manga. I mean comic book isn't that much better, but it's a visual book. Must of assumed it was since creepypasta.com is what they are comparing it to and maybe she read Soul Eater on a scanlation site.
Not that it matters since Soul Eater has nothing to do with Slenderman, the kid needs mental help judging how the text and diary were worded.