RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => X => Topic started by: Irregular Ass-R-Us on September 02, 2013, 06:11:34 PM
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Hi guys.
I wanted to ask one thing. I noticed some people hate/dislike the PSX-era Rockman X games. I want to ask why is that? I love all the Rockman X games equally (Excluding X7. That was OK). I loved the Super Famicon games because i loved the music , sprites and gameplay. Everything was perfect. I had those same feeling for the PSX games. Maybe i did not like X5 much because of Alia. But other than that i loved the PSX-era games. X6 was special for me <3. X4 was amazing and really well made out of the first three because it was really high quality made (I played Rockman X4 so i did not suffer the bad voice acting in Megaman X4). I feel like i do for X4 for all three of them.
I can understand that some people hated the 3D static backgrounds and platforms which i can understand. Other than that i see no reason why they are hated/disliked. I liked The sprites, backgrounds and music. (The Music is superbly phenomenal).
I would like to hear why some of you guys dislike/hate them.
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Some people like and dislike lots of things... I don't know how you get the idea that this particular hate is noticeable, honestly. :\
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Some people i met really despise the psx era games. I just would like to know why they hate/dislike it.
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I don't mind the PSX games so much, X4 has some boring music but that's subjective.
The Air-Dash in the PSX X games is ass though.
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That is true there is some delay in it.
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- Feels kind of sluggish in the controls compared to the earlier games in the series (particularly the dash... which I use pretty much at all times).
- I'm not a fan of the general style they use for the backgrounds (X5 and X6, particularly).
- The music, while still good overall, doesn't hold up compared to the earlier games (except possibly X3... that one is very hit and miss for me).
Those are the main reasons I don't like them quite as much. I still like them, but it's just not quite the same for me.
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- Feels kind of sluggish in the controls compared to the earlier games in the series (particularly the dash... which I use pretty much at all times).
- I'm not a fan of the general style they use for the backgrounds (X5 and X6, particularly).
- The music, while still good overall, doesn't hold up compared to the earlier games (except possibly X3... that one is very hit and miss for me).
Those are the main reasons I don't like them quite as much. I still like them, but it's just not quite the same for me.
- The controls in X4/5 do indeed feel sluggish but in X6 i found them to be 99% perfect.
- I Agree on the backgrounds. The backgrounds did not look beautiful and colourful as they did in the SF games.
- I disagree (Except X4, It is a hit and miss.) The soundtrack was fitting and amazing and kept me going in stages. But i do know what you mean with some of the soundtrack being repetitive and boring. I particularly disliked Magma Dragaards in X4 and Makoeens X5 themes because they made me feel bored sometimes.
Thanks for sharing! 8) .
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Really the only PSX title I didn't like was X3. Way better on the SNES. But thus far I've played through the first three and I'm on the fourth, poking through the next two, and I have no problem with them.
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IMO only one of the PSX X games was actually good: X4. X5 and X6 are both pretty terrible and as such the PSX era kinda suffers from that.
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IMO only one of the PSX X games was actually good: X4. X5 and X6 are both pretty terrible and as such the PSX era kinda suffers from that.
I liked X4 and X6.
X5 was depressing and it had Alias interruptions. X6 in all honestly was an exhilarating ride for me. I personally liked the bosses, levels and story more than X4/X5.
X4 had a really splendid production value and it was amazing, but the gameplay felt slow for me and the story could have been a bit more better . X6 felt really fast paced and it has a better story (excluding how zero repaired himself), it gives me a really high feeling of joy when playing it. X5 was not as good as the other two. I did not feel as pumped or excited when playing it because the whole theme and atmosphere felt depressing. The gameplay in X5 on the other hand was really amazing, i loved it. X6 had a very disappointing boss which let me down.
So i think the three both have equal flaws and their good sides. I still love them as much as the Famicom games.
Thanks for sharing 8)
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I actually think the framework for the PSX-era games was fantastic. Game feel was terrific, the control felt precise yet fluid, visual design was terrific and the ability to fully play as different characters was a plus.
The problem? Level design was horrendous. HORRENDOUS. And with how little else changes, level design is pretty much what makes or breaks a Mega Man game.
X4's biggest problem was that most of its stages were straight lines with enemies strewn about, but the way that they broke up the stages into two parts hurt more as well. For most of the stages, you can literally just run from one end to the other without even trying to dodge enemies and you'll make it to the second half of the stage without dying, whereupon you get your health refilled. There's no incentive for a player to actually perform well throughout the stage, and there's little interesting in the stages to bother with anyway. Everything felt too cramped, exploration was essentially non-existent (with even powerups just hiding in plain site), and the post-Maverick stages were basically just boss rooms one after the other.
X5 was a step in the right direction in terms of level design, making more open stages that branched off in different directions and actually had a design to them that extended beyond "straight line", but it ruined that by all its other framework problems like the poorly-implemented time limit, armor upgrades and Maverick leveling system. Alia also got in the way causing more player deaths than the actual stage design, particularly in the Skiver's stage where a text bubble will actually stop you from being able to take out a bomb in time, or in Mattrex's stage where a text bubble will stop you mid-jump when you're heading towards a safe zone. Stage ideas like fighting off the submarine miniboss in Duff's stage was neat, but was too cramped and definitely needed some fleshing out.
X6 is the worst game I've ever played from a major developer. Stage design is garbage, boss design is garbage, the gameplay is garbage, and you can tell that nobody working on this game had any idea of what good game design is supposed to look like. I wouldn't wish this game upon my worst enemies.
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I actually think the framework for the PSX-era games was fantastic. Game feel was terrific, the control felt precise yet fluid, visual design was terrific and the ability to fully play as different characters was a plus.
The problem? Level design was horrendous. HORRENDOUS. And with how little else changes, level design is pretty much what makes or breaks a Mega Man game.
X4's biggest problem was that most of its stages were straight lines with enemies strewn about, but the way that they broke up the stages into two parts hurt more as well. For most of the stages, you can literally just run from one end to the other without even trying to dodge enemies and you'll make it to the second half of the stage without dying, whereupon you get your health refilled. There's no incentive for a player to actually perform well throughout the stage, and there's little interesting in the stages to bother with anyway. Everything felt too cramped, exploration was essentially non-existent (with even powerups just hiding in plain site), and the post-Maverick stages were basically just boss rooms one after the other.
X5 was a step in the right direction in terms of level design, making more open stages that branched off in different directions and actually had a design to them that extended beyond "straight line", but it ruined that by all its other framework problems like the poorly-implemented time limit, armor upgrades and Maverick leveling system. Alia also got in the way causing more player deaths than the actual stage design, particularly in the Skiver's stage where a text bubble will actually stop you from being able to take out a bomb in time, or in Mattrex's stage where a text bubble will stop you mid-jump when you're heading towards a safe zone. Stage ideas like fighting off the submarine miniboss in Duff's stage was neat, but was too cramped and definitely needed some fleshing out.
X6 is the worst game I've ever played from a major developer. Stage design is garbage, boss design is garbage, the gameplay is garbage, and you can tell that nobody working on this game had any idea of what good game design is supposed to look like. I wouldn't wish this game upon my worst enemies.
Agreed on level design. It was garbage indeed. For me extreme mode makes no difference because as you said you can basically rush through the level no problem with just barely dodging enemies. I think that the levels should have been sprited rather than have those ugly static 3D backgrounds.
Even though they have their negatives . I still like them personally despite all the negatives. Other than some stuff in X6. The gameplay was no different from the others. Other than i pretty much agree with this.
Thank you for sharing 8) that was a really good post.
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I have to agree with Mike on some of the stage design. I mean, don't get me wrong; [tornado fang] X3's stage design sometimes, that stuff's just malicious. But X4 really was a bit too straight. Some sections (Storm Owl part 2) were way, way too short as well, X5 had weird pacing issues and the tedious backtracking for getting all the armor or 100%ing the game (outside of parts, screw bothering with those), and X6.. I'm not going to cite the infamous bit for Gate's Lab 1, because we've discussed it to death and Hypershell might get me for it. But Blaze Heatnix is probably a good example. The same boss reused several times, and one of the biggest dickmove autoscrolling sequences in the entire franchise...
But beyond issues like that, I mostly get annoyed with the PSX era for the heavy focus on Zero. I know Inafune created Zero to steal the spotlight, but X4 and 5 were really blatant about it, to the point that Zero skips a(n admittedly laughable) boss fight and generally gets more story in X4 while becoming the primary catalyst of the entire plot of X5. And if the series had ended there, then Zero would've even been the one to finish Sigma for good. I like the guy as a character, but it just felt a bit too much for X's own series.. X6 kinda eased on the Zero focus, but he was still a major catalyst and pulls a Protoman party-crashing trick with his magical appearance at the end if you don't save him.
Then Capcom did the same thing with Axl, but that's a different subject. Either way, I still love X4 and 5 over 2 and 3, if only because I grew up with the PSX games more than the SNES ones (albeit I can appreciate X1 the most overall), but their faults have only become a bit more glaring over the years.
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I thought X4's levels were fine until you cleared all of the Maverick stages. Space Port and Final Weapon are the most bland, uninspired fortress levels I've ever seen in a Megaman game. I'd say most of X4's stages also suffer from being a little on the easy side too. X5's stages were good but everything else that was bad about X5 overshadowed that. Heck, Alia single-handedly prevents you from enjoying a stage due to her unavoidable text boxes.
IMO I felt that X2 had the strongest overall level design in the X series. The layouts were very open while the stages remained challenging as well.
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I have to agree with Mike on some of the stage design. I mean, don't get me wrong; [tornado fang] X3's stage design sometimes, that stuff's just malicious. But X4 really was a bit too straight. Some sections (Storm Owl part 2) were way, way too short as well, X5 had weird pacing issues and the tedious backtracking for getting all the armor or 100%ing the game (outside of parts, screw bothering with those), and X6.. I'm not going to cite the infamous bit for Gate's Lab 1, because we've discussed it to death and Hypershell might get me for it. But Blaze Heatnix is probably a good example. The same boss reused several times, and one of the biggest dickmove autoscrolling sequences in the entire franchise...
But beyond issues like that, I mostly get annoyed with the PSX era for the heavy focus on Zero. I know Inafune created Zero to steal the spotlight, but X4 and 5 were really blatant about it, to the point that Zero skips a(n admittedly laughable) boss fight and generally gets more story in X4 while becoming the primary catalyst of the entire plot of X5. And if the series had ended there, then Zero would've even been the one to finish Sigma for good. I like the guy as a character, but it just felt a bit too much for X's own series.. X6 kinda eased on the Zero focus, but he was still a major catalyst and pulls a Protoman party-crashing trick with his magical appearance at the end if you don't save him.
Then Capcom did the same thing with Axl, but that's a different subject. Either way, I still love X4 and 5 over 2 and 3, if only because I grew up with the PSX games more than the SNES ones (albeit I can appreciate X1 the most overall), but their faults have only become a bit more glaring over the years.
I highly agree with this. The stages in X4 feel too short because they are separated into two parts and are too straight forward which makes them feel fast and really easy to do. I also dislike Zero becoming the main character, i am a fan of Zero but the game is called Rockman X. I think Zero should have been more of a mentor to X. In X4 i disliked how Zero got a bit more character development than X. I pretty much agree with you.
Thanks for another great post 8).
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I thought X4's levels were fine until you cleared all of the Maverick stages. Space Port and Final Weapon are the most bland, uninspired fortress levels I've ever seen in a Megaman game. I'd say most of X4's stages also suffer from being a little on the easy side too. X5's stages were good but everything else that was bad about X5 overshadowed that. Heck, Alia single-handedly prevents you from enjoying a stage due to her unavoidable text boxes.
IMO I felt that X2 had the strongest overall level design in the X series. The layouts were very open while the stages remained challenging as well.
I actually liked the spaceport stage it felt as you were in a hurry to stop the Colonel and also it felt as you were high in the air, the song was very good and suitable. The final weapon though was terrible and bland, the music and just the whole design bored me and made me yawn. X5 stages were OK except they felt dull and empty for me. and with Alia interrupting you, it felt awful.
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A lot of people?
Because it's "Not muh X1".
Theres tons of people who hate them just because they are not the SNES games. hell, lots of people hate the X series in general because it's not NES Classic MM.
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If there's one thing I really liked about X5, it's how all of its stages were mission-based. I do like the idea of going into a stage and having a goal to reach, like taking out the submarine or defusing all the bombs or whathaveyou. They did more with this idea in X8 and it worked out much better.
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Preaching to the choir, but yeah, very much agreed that the level design is what stands out the most about what I disliked about the 32-bit trilogy. Along with the fact that especially with X6 (as I elaborated on a while ago), that the controls were wonky as hell.
I mean, when you're playing as Zero in X6, you're on one of those silly wires traversing a chasm, and you accidentally press a button sequence that makes Zero DIVE TO HIS DEATH, when you just wanted to jump up and slash an enemy that was coming in too close? That's a problem, and should've been something that your QA testers caught if you gave your game more than less than a year's worth of dev time.
It's a shame too, considering that the 32-bit trilogy had some of the best "combat sandbox" aspects this side of the Zero series.
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But beyond issues like that, I mostly get annoyed with the PSX era for the heavy focus on Zero. I know Inafune created Zero to steal the spotlight, but X4 and 5 were really blatant about it, to the point that Zero skips a(n admittedly laughable) boss fight and generally gets more story in X4 while becoming the primary catalyst of the entire plot of X5. And if the series had ended there, then Zero would've even been the one to finish Sigma for good.
He also died in a boss explosion irrelevant to whether or not he was even on-screen during said explosion.
I'm not stupid enough to try and argue that Zero was not a major focus of the PS1 arc. I'm just saying, while there is the appearance that they set out to sing Zero's praises, there is also the end result that says they really sucked at it.
I will also argue that despite Zero still being the source of conflict in X6, X6 really did bring us some good character development on X's side. Seeing how he reacts to a threat that hits on a personal level (and is not Sigma and therefore doesn't invoke the "you're crazy, I'll kill you" response) was very interesting, and at the same time, he did remain true to his "merciful" side in the end.
IMO only one of the PSX X games was actually good: X4. X5 and X6 are both pretty terrible and as such the PSX era kinda suffers from that.
While I disagree with this particular sentiment, I do understand it.
See, X4 was the only "classic-feeling" game of the PS1 era. It literally was a Super NES game with a new engine, superior tech, and Zero. Unless you're THAT bothered by air-dash momentum, anyone who denounces X4 is I believe doing so mainly out of hardware bias. Yeah, it ain't perfect, but after X3's buster upgrade I don't think it really needed to be. It was damn well awesome and every bit worthy to stand in the light of the first two SNES games.
X5 and X6 both attempted to mix up the formula. X5 was largely unsuccessful in doing so, as besides the multi-armor thing very little of its original elements are remembered fondly, and ALL of them are presented in a horrendously rough state with much-needed fixes applied in later games. X6 did most of that fixing (Navigator assistance, Power-Up Parts, Ranking, a spike-immune armor that doesn't destroy whatever concept of customization that the Power Up Parts are trying to create, starting with an armor that does not completely destroy any sense of progression in collecting X's other crap, having a branch ending that does not present the more difficult boss to the less skilled player and also does not emphasize the anticlimactic nature of the main ending, and making a Zero boss who doesn't suck). However, it also severely ramped up the difficulty in very untraditional methods, catering to people who were willing to explore the ins and outs of how to squeeze every ounce of speed and distance out of the game engine than to people who just wanted to equip Weapon X so that they could destroy Obstructing Block Y. It's a love-letter to gamers like me who maybe enjoy the games just a little too much, but it's not particularly approachable for the general public. It is literally the "Super Mario: The Lost Levels" of Mega Man X, except without the intent of being Japan-only and therefore lacking the any validation to people who would otherwise make it a point to be good at it just so that japanese bunny girls wouldn't laugh at them.
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You're giving awful design far too much credit.
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You're assuming I give a damn about how you define the term "awful design". I'm the guy who defends Godzilla Unleashed; praising X6 is extraordinarily easy by comparison.
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The only thing I really didn't like about X4 was the soundtrack and lack of decent X storyline, which I detail perfectly right here! 8D
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z84_dvzT-hM[/youtube]
And some of the melodies are pretty decent in X4, mind you. Just didn't like the instrument choice at ALL. Way too high pitched. Especially X's opening theme and Zero's opening theme around what should have been an awesome guitar solo part!
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I actually thought X4's soundtrack, overall, was the best of the PS1 games. X5 and X6 were both rather hit-or-miss at times, with X5 suffering a critical "miss" both for X's theme and for the main boss theme.
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I'd have to say that X6's soundtrack, overall, is the best of the PS1 games. X5 is my personal favorite though. Yeah, the X5 intro themes are relatively shitty, the main boss theme is in my Top 3 favorite X boss themes in the series. However, I know I'm in the majority on that one and I fully can understand why.
With X4, pretty much everything after the main stage themes are pretty much crap.
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IMO:
X4 -- My favorite of the three, closest to the SNES trilogy in design and presentation. Anime cutscenes are a real treat. Last decent boss arsenal for X. I don't agree with the critics about the level design, I think they do some interesting things. Definitely better than X3 where you're constantly zigzagging through empty tunnels.
X5 -- Questionable decisions, like the random Enigma/shuttle and the weird part system. Alia pisses me off (training stage was there for a reason, dammit!). Too many wait-and-go stages, and possibly the worst underwater level in Mega Man history. Still a fun game that took some risks. I will always respect that. Back then I couldn't imagine a Mega Man game where you didn't have to defeat all 8 bosses to reach the fortress. I have mixed feelings about X having two armor sets. Would rather collect and use the parts separately, although the variety is pretty sweet.
X6 -- A mess that somehow works quite well. This game is pure chaos, and also really open. There are many interesting ways to go through it. The challenge isn't exactly fair, but for every cheap situation you can be 2x cheaper. Some of the unintended tricks are quite satisfying, especially Zero dash cancel and Guard Shell abuse. Say what you will about saving Reploids, at least you can get any part at any time if you're good enough. Shadow X is awesome with the right parts (Speedster + Ultimate Buster for total ninjaness).
I would rate them 4 > 6 > 5, and at least 1 and 2 above them all. But I really like all PS era MMXs!
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My opinion:
S Tier:
X1
X2
A Tier:
X4
Xtreme 2
B Tier:
X3
X8
C Tier
X6
D Tier
X5
Poop Tier
X7
Xtreme 1
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I like X5's X intro stage theme... :\
Zero's is bland though.
Now it's funny though, for all X5's flaws and terrible ideas, it really is the one I have the most nostalgia for, despite feeling X6 is the better of the two, and X4 being my favorite. (X4 also being my first X game- i came into Megaman with the PSX games. 8 and X4)
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Plus, the one thing about X5 that supersedes all other arguments...
ZERO RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVE!!!!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwzh_0Zib1Y[/youtube]
8D
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X5 definitely has one of the best, if not THE best, final stage theme ever in the X series.
I wonder who's idea it was to remix Quickman and said "hey... let's make this the final area theme"
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And it's got one of the funkiest remixes to it, too:
http://youtu.be/cwrVYWMrf-Y
I really enjoyed the X5 soundtrack overall, and can't remember a single track from X4's off the top of my head. X6's soundtrack had some hits too, but the music often didn't fit the stage at all, like Blaze Heatnix having one of the fastest and most energetic rock tracks for the slowest and most tedious stage in the series' history.
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Plus, the one thing about X5 that supersedes all other arguments...
ZERO RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVE!!!!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwzh_0Zib1Y[/youtube]
8D
It was almost as if Sigma was inviting you to his Club to destroy you in a dance competition instead of being so concerned about the fate of the world and Reploid/Humankind.
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It was almost as if Sigma was inviting you to his Club to destroy you in a dance competition instead of being so concerned about the fate of the world and Reploid/Humankind.
He already had infected 8 more Reploids with the Maverick Virus for this plan.
Strobe Butterfly
Smoke Giraffe
Woofer Rover
Bouncer Blowfish
Martini Flamingo
Techno Platypus
Break Duck
Spin Badger
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Plus, the one thing about X5 that supersedes all other arguments...
ZERO RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVE!!!!
...damn you, I can't argue with that one. XD
X5 definitely has one of the best, if not THE best, final stage theme ever in the X series.
My fav is X2. Cheap as it may be, reusing the intro theme lets you know that things are coming full circle, and gets you pumped up.
That said, X5 is certainly the best final-stage-theme of the PS1 arc (not that the others set the that bar high).
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...damn you, I can't argue with that one. XD
My fav is X2. Cheap as it may be, reusing the intro theme lets you know that things are coming full circle, and gets you pumped up.
That said, X5 is certainly the best final-stage-theme of the PS1 arc (not that the others set the that bar high).
You know you want to see Zero & Iris getting down in da club to that beat. 8D
As for favorite final stage themes.....if Jacob counts, that's probably mine.
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Sorry if I was a bit whiny about the Zero focus thing, Hypershell, it's just been a personal perturbance for years. If there's other criticisms I can level at the PS1 games, it's probably the start of long segments of text that get particularly chatty. It's like the characters never shut up yet simultaneously aren't actually saying much due to odd translations and repeating things. It probably wouldn't be so bad if X5 and X6 didn't have that annoying 'ba-ba-ba-ba-ba' sound for every individual letter that pops up (outside of the voiced scenes in X6, anyway). This ties in with Alia's mid-level dialogue in both games, too; get caught by one, BABABABABABABABABABABABABABA
X7's introduction of voice-acting for all scenes is better than that damn text noise, but then it segues into the voice acting quality itself, as well as being off-topic.
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I don't think you were being whiny at all, it's just that the point itself has been driven to death over the years. Pretty much everyone claims that Zero is the spotlight-stealer. And, quite frankly, sometimes they're right. In the case of X4, they definitely are (although part of that may have something to do with it being Zero's debut as a fully playable character, but X's lack of cutscene time is hard to excuse). But most of those people tend to either dismiss the good points that X did receive, or in the case of X5, grossly overestimate any benefit that Zero is alleged to have obtained from the extra focus.
Oddly enough Zero's best character development in X5 is probably the alternate path where he is removed from player status. At least that way it explores the idea of his "mission" and Wily's intentions. The "canonical" path of X5 does absolutely nothing to strengthen Zero's character, in fact he is noticeably more of a hardass in X5 than in most other titles (seen in his dialogue with Dr. Light a few times). The game as a whole doesn't really do Zero's fans any favors, either. A player who botches up on their first time through and is therefore punished by having Zero removed from the roster and killed is in for a very rude surprise when they're motivated to shoot for the better ending only to watch him die a cheap death anyway.
X6 I feel struck a good balance between the two. Again, Zero may be the source of conflict, but he's also optional as a player (which contrary to popular belief, X is not in X7), and both he and X get some pretty meaningful dialogue. X's in particular is interesting because we get to see how he reacts both to a personal threat and to a seemingly impossible one, the latter being something we almost never see outside of X1.
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I will say this about X6:
- I feel like aside from X1, this is the only game that properly captured the feel of scope. In the intro stage you get bopped by High Max, and it's clear that Gate's creations are much stronger than you. Throughout the game, you rescue numerous reploids and collect armor just to give yourself a fighting chance against all the crap in this game that's trying to kill you. What makes it so different here than in the other non-X1 games is how much variety X6 has in its upgrades. By the time your character collects enough items/parts/armor you're on a completely different level than when you first started the game. Once you hit Gate's lab things come full circle and you get to curbstomp High Max and later step on Sigma's toes with your overpowered self.
For this very reason I feel like X6 is better played without rescuing Zero, just because there's something satisfying about hoarding all of the items for X and watching him grow little by little. You can do it with Zero too, but it just doesn't have the same effect.
- Also, X6 is one of the few games that completely got the concept of "Hard Mode" correct. Not only is the game's difficulty increased in a non-cheap manner, the game feels...more enhanced. Bosses get new moves, enemy patterns are more challenging, and you feel like you have to actually plan your movements now.
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From my experience, Mega Man fans can never agree on anything. That being said, the PSX trilogy suffered from declining polish and innovation, which is unsurprising for any longstanding series. This causes a rift in many fans, making the general opinion across these games to be very polarized.
X4 was the console jump which boasted high quality sprites and anime cutscenes, but beyond differentiating Zero from X as a melee character, X4 didn't really bring anything new to the table.
X5 tries to do some of that, but suffered from glaring problems.
X6 fixed a lot of those problems, but it still had plenty of its own issues.
The bottomline is that every title suffers some form of mediocrity. On the other hand, X1 is an all-around masterpiece. X2 is a worthy sequel. X3...well X3 is overrated, but it at least has the nostalgia factor.
By the way, why does everyone hate Mega Man Xtreme? It wasn't original like Xtreme 2, but I don't remember it being that bad... (then again, I haven't played it in a long time)
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X3 is overrated? I don't really know anybody that finds it to be a masterpiece or anything, its just okay.
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By the way, why does everyone hate Mega Man Xtreme? It wasn't original like Xtreme 2, but I don't remember it being that bad... (then again, I haven't played it in a long time)
Well, Xtreme 2 wasn't entirely original either. Some of its level design was copied, if I remember right, but a lot of stages were redone at the same time. But I remember the first Xtreme running pretty choppy, with some questionable physics and such at times, and the music.. I can get down with Xtreme 2's soundtrack, but Xtreme 1 was just a bit too tinny for my likes from what I remember myself.
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People tend to lump X3 together with X1 and X2, which makes it obvious those people can't distinguish the quality between them.
I actually view X3 in the same light as X5: it tries to expand the X series with new gimmicks, but fails to keep the game functioning as a cohesive experience. There's just too much stuff, that each one gets too little attention to make it actually worth caring about. Example, how often do you really get to use Kangaroo or Hawk?
The vertical air dash start up, really bad double charge shot, obsession with elevators, obsession with ramming-AI, ridiculous damage scaling, necessity to have item A before getting item B (particularly the <i>really bad buster upgrade</i>). I'm probably forgetting something else as well, but basically everything just feels tacky.
Here's an interesting point: the head upgrade is very poorly placed. You need the Foot Upgrade (not really) AND Tornado Fang to get the Buster Upgrade, and you need that AND Triad Thunder to get the Head Upgrade (did I mention you're doing a stage revisit?). What does the Head Upgrade do again? Help you find items. What's the problem? You need to get a bunch of things before you can even get the thing that helps you find things, most of which you probably already got trying to get the thing that's supposed to help you find things.
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I really enjoyed the X5 soundtrack overall, and can't remember a single track from X4's off the top of my head.
Not even Jet Stingray or Final Sigma?
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjjYt0RGIH8[/youtube]
0v0
Driving on the highway to this song is a LOT of fun! [eyebrow]
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My personal favorite from X5's ost is Volt Kraken's theme.
The only song from X4 I remember off the top of my head is X's intro stage theme.
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Not even Jet Stingray or Final Sigma?
They're familiar after I look them up, but ultimately not memorable enough to stick in there.
I can remember and sing the melodies for almost every song in X5.
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By the way, why does everyone hate Mega Man Xtreme? It wasn't original like Xtreme 2, but I don't remember it being that bad... (then again, I haven't played it in a long time)
My main problem with Xtreme was that it was way too short/easy, even by MM standards. The EGM tagline that said that "[the game] goes by quicker than Quickman" is an understatement.
Also, Geemel and Zain, while pretty cool designs, were both rather short-lived boss fights that didn't really stand out enough for them to be the game's sole claim to "original content".
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Personally, I hated the controls. The game was, sadly, before it's time. It would have been much better as a GBA game.
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Agreed. Megaman X without a dash button struggles really hard to be Megaman X.
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Isn't it possible to dash by double-tapping left/right on the D-pad in the GBC games? But I do agree, a dedicated dash button is a must for the X series.
My main problem with Xtreme was that it was way too short/easy, even by MM standards. The EGM tagline that said that "[the game] goes by quicker than Quickman" is an understatement.
Also, Geemel and Zain, while pretty cool designs, were both rather short-lived boss fights that didn't really stand out enough for them to be the game's sole claim to "original content".
So the Hard difficulty is moot in terms of length?
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I can live without a single-button dash, provided a single-button air-dash with proper momentum (one thing the PS1 engine lacked).
Xtreme1 lacks any originality to it whereas about the only close to straight-ported level in Xtreme2 is Flame Mammoth's (stage segments are re-used elsewhere, but not entire levels, and 2 has more original bosses scattered throughout). 1 also commited the greivous error of attempting to write replays into the storyline, and yes, its music is positively horrendous. Even the devs noticed that; they had the good sense to redo the victory jingle's instruments in Xtreme2 even though it's the same tune.
Also much agreed on the above comments as to X3's mediocrity. It definitely did not age as well as the other SNES titles. Buster is the second crappiest of the series after Blade. The ride armor selection was a good but severely underutilized idea.
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I don't remember if Xtreme 2 lets you double tap. It might be just down+A.
There is a dash button for Xtreme 1 though. The bad news is it's Select. The good news is that's a nonissue if you play on emulator or Game Boy Player.
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There is a dash button for Xtreme 1 though. The bad news is it's Select. The good news is that's a nonissue if you play on emulator or Game Boy Player.
And it'll be an issue again once the VC release comes out because Remapping buttons is for chumps apparently.
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On 3DS, yeah. 'tis a shame that WiiU doesn't get GB VC games.
I don't remember if Xtreme 2 lets you double tap. It might be just down+A.
There is a dash button for Xtreme 1 though. The bad news is it's Select. The good news is that's a nonissue if you play on emulator or Game Boy Player.
2 does let you double tap. In fact it's the only way to dash-jump in the game, since Down+Jump stops if you release the Jump button (moot point if you have air-dash, but still).
What I can't remember is if 1 let you use the Down+Jump command...
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Agreed. Megaman X without a dash button struggles really hard to be Megaman X.
I feel like it's unfair to rag on Xtreme 1 for its hardware limitations when Xtreme 2 was guilty of the same thing. Although I guess the latter gets a free pass because it has air dash.
Personally, I never expected much out of Xtreme 1 other than being X1 and X2 ported to GameBoy, even when I was young I knew not to care about the canon of the game. I don't think it should be praised for some outstanding merit or anything, but the amount of hate I come across for it seems unjustified.
Eh, I'm probably reading way too much into it.
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So the Hard difficulty is moot in terms of length?
I'm talking about the whole game. "Normal", "Hard" and "Extreme", altogether, go by really fast because, again, the game is on the easy side.
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X3 was a game I loved as a kid and I think many people did, cause when you're young you think "more = better". It's only later that you realize that all the [parasitic bomb] they crammed into this game didn't work. Forced encounters with Bit & Byte just mean that every stage has two transition rooms that are empty most of the time. Multiple ride armors are cool, but you need to visit, like, five different stages before you can even unlock ONE of them. Armor capsules in every stage is cool enough, except that most of the chips suck and once you learn about the Golden Armor they all become irrelevant.
Poorly paced game with poorly-thought out expansions and item progression. I'd say at least it had a couple of good boss fights, but something like 3/4 of the boss fights just involved you climbing the wall and jumping over the boss as he charged right at you.
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I feel the same with X3, it's my least favorite of the SNES trilogy although I played PSX version included in MMX Collection, which annoyed me more because of how slow all the dialogue is compared to SNES version. Seriously? What was the culprit behind the slow text speed? The SNES version can skip right through it no problem whereas the CD-based versions the dialogue's skip speed is slow as a snail. The Ride Armors, while interesting to more of them, but it's virtually moot since you never had to rely on them save for items if I remember correctly. I never liked the X-Buster upgrade in X3 either; X1 and X2's X-Buster upgrades made you feel more of a badass because the firepower of a fully-charged shot was straight to the point by charging your shot all the way. In X3's case, they do something in the veins of X2's buster upgrade by doing a "combined" charged shot. Cool in theory, but ultimately it's more impractical than it is cool and the damage you get out of it isn't that satisfactory.
Armor capsules in every stage is cool enough, except that most of the chips suck and once you learn about the Golden Armor they all become irrelevant.
The only chip upgrade I ever liked was the double air-dash chip to move around quickly, but as you said, once you know where to get the Golden Armor chip, everything else is pointless.
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X3 is the only X game where I don't complete the armor most of the time. I get the air dash, then the foot chip, and that's it. Everything else is either too far or just crappy. And also, not getting the X-Buster upgrade means that the Z-Saber will charge much faster.
I like X3 though. It's just... to me it's exactly like Donkey Kong 64, where they try to blow your mind with a billion items to collect, except they're not very fun to collect and not very fun to use either. But I can find my own route in the game that makes it fun to breeze through. My favorite thing about X3 is that they brought back the stage effects from X1.
The PS/XC version, however... I just pretend it doesn't exist. The music sounds like a cheap carnival knock-off.
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The PS/XC version, however... I just pretend it doesn't exist. The music sounds like a cheap carnival knock-off.
Sadly it's also on the Saturn port too since it's also CD-based; same goes for the PC version. Really wished they ported SNES version in the X Collection instead.
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Eh... the level design and boss ai of X3 is kinda weak.
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Eh... the level design and boss ai of X3 is kinda weak.
The boss AI in X3 just screams "rush job."
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As does the Boss music, for that matter!
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A lot of the game does, like the artificial difficulty jolt in the form of ridiculous damage. Good thing everything is so easy to dodge (except maybe Volt Catfish's second half attack).
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Still has my favorite Zero theme though! 8D
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Sadly it's also on the Saturn port too since it's also CD-based; same goes for the PC version. Really wished they ported SNES version in the X Collection instead.
In all fairness the PC/PS1 version was never available to us in the U.S. before. So, back then, it was kind of a big deal. I get why people prefer the SNES, though. I could go either way. But if it wasn't for X Collection, a lot of fans wouldn't have the choice to begin with, so I'm glad they went the route that they did.
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In all fairness the PC/PS1 version was never available to us in the U.S. before. So, back then, it was kind of a big deal. I get why people prefer the SNES, though. I could go either way. But if it wasn't for X Collection, a lot of fans wouldn't have the choice to begin with, so I'm glad they went the route that they did.
I thought they released X3 on the PC in the US?
As does the Boss music, for that matter!
I like the first part of the boss theme, but the second part is so... blech. Its only like a 15 second loop.
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I like the first part of the boss theme, but the second part is so... blech. Its only like a 15 second loop.
Which is why it sucks.
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X3's music suffers from "Bad Instrument Syndrome". I feel like the base melodies would be good if they were just played on different instruments or something. Expect for the boss theme though, that cannot be salvaged unless they completely remix.
X3 is the only X game where I don't complete the armor most of the time. I get the air dash, then the foot chip, and that's it. Everything else is either too far or just crappy. And also, not getting the X-Buster upgrade means that the Z-Saber will charge much faster.
Yeah, I NEVER go for the entire armor anymore, for the same reason. Without the buster part you can't get anything but the foot parts, so I end up just using that unless I use a password to get around that limitation. It's a shame too, because X3's armor has the potential to be one of the most broken of all time.
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You can still get the body armor with the foot enhancement chip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmJJ-EWV4vI
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You can still get the body armor with the foot enhancement chip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmJJ-EWV4vI
I think what exemplifies both the poorly mishandled number of items as well as the individual item placement/requirements is this video I made a year back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDFGka7rJP0
[shamelessly promoting myself]
As you can see, the video is 18 minutes long to cover how to get every item in the most minimalistic way possible. [by the way, I didn't know about the "Liberty Jump" at this point so that was unfortunately left out].
In comparison,
X1: ~10 minutes
X2: ~7 minutes [w/o Liberty Jump]
X4 [X]: ~11 minutes [multiple duplicates of Ultimate Armor showcased]
X4 [Zero]: ~5 minutes
X5 [X]: ~19 minutes
X5 [Zero]: ~14 minutes
I'm in the middle of X6, I just can't bring myself to get so many recordings since X6 is ridiiiiiculously open-ended.
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Im one of the few people that prefer the PS1 X3 soundtrack.
I just like some tracks better there.
Not all are better though, mind you. But many of them sounded kind of off on the SNES too. Too much grunge guitar... X3's soundtrack was begging for a Genesis soundchip.
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Ick
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Neon Tiger's theme certainly benefited from the PSX upgrade:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAPgKM2hits[/youtube]
Honestly the only song that i didn't really like on the PSX ost was Vile's theme. Needed some electric guitars, not that synth. Overall I really like it though.
Regardless, how can you argue with this kind of an ending?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PvnuqqGNW4[/youtube]
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Can't argue at all. It's my favorite X ending of all. I love that bit of X and Zero just relaxing, watching the sunset. It's really nice.
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"I'm Believer" (JPN ending credits), "One More Time" (JPN opening theme), the ending music are probably favorite tracks from the CD-based versions of X3. I'll probably mess around the PC version of X3 if I get the chance to so I can see if it was dull as I remembered playing in the X Collection.
Can't argue at all. It's my favorite X ending of all. I love that bit of X and Zero just relaxing, watching the sunset. It's really nice.
Same here. It's probably one of the most peaceful endings scenes in X to be honest.
I thought they released X3 on the PC in the US?
I believe it did in October of '98 in the US from the info I gathered so far. It was also released in Korea for PC to in a compilation with X4 & X5, and if I remember correctly, X3 and X4 was in English in this compilation while X5 was in Korean, but I could be wrong.
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Im one of the few people that prefer the PS1 X3 soundtrack.
I just like some tracks better there.
I actually like the easygoing feel of the PSX Intro Stage theme, even if it's a little out of place given the in-game events:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Am1XppfNos[/youtube]
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It's kinda like the Sonic CD English vs. Japanese soundtrack debates, I suppose. Except technically the compositions are shared (aside from the OP/END-style stuff and all for the CD versions) and merely rearranged differently from eachother, rather than near-completely different.
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This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ErDnL3BJBI) makes me feel ready to kick ass. Seriously, it's so cool that X and Zero are falling at just the right moment of the intro tune, as the mechaniloid explodes to bits. It's sooo smooth. That whole sequence was very carefully constructed.
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5as1vhy1yo), however, is just... :| Clearly they imagined people would be all over this intro because of the anime clip. But IMO it feels disjointed and forced when they use the SNES graphics in the FMV and cut to gameplay all of a sudden. And the music is a disaster...
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In all honesty i like the PSX intro better, for me it sounds a lot more better than the snes.
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Oh, right, speaking of gameplay and sound. The sound effects are really nice in PSX X3.
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Agreed
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I like the credits theme in X3, and that's about it.
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Oh, right, speaking of gameplay and sound. The sound effects are really nice in PSX X3.
That must be sarcasm. Charging alone sounds so dumb.
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That must be sarcasm. Charging alone sounds so dumb.
The PSX charging sound is terribad.
"VRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMM!"
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The PSX charging sound is terribad.
"VRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMM!"
I couldn't tell if X was charging up his X Buster or a using vacuum cleaner in the CD version. -u-'
And now I have this mental image of X dressed as a French maid.
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I couldn't tell if X was charging up his X Buster or a using vacuum cleaner in the CD version. -u-'
And now I have this mental image of X dressed as a French maid.
It doesn't help that X3's buster upgrade already looks like a dust buster...
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I'm fond of X3's Dust Buster... It's just so unique... and square...
I'm actually pretty fond of the X3 armor's design in general, although the sprite looks like a total mess.
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Thanks for all the contributions guys 8).
although the sprite looks like a total mess.
I think its actually a nice design. It looks like a remake of the X2 armour.