RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Fan Creations => Fan Games => Topic started by: fifthindependent on March 25, 2012, 08:49:41 AM
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Some friends and I have started a Mega Man fan game that is in NES style so much it even attempts to replicate the problems the NES had such as sprite flicker (although this can be turned off in the options) so I thought I'd share some info here and get some opinions.
This game features the ability to play as Mega Man or Bass, totally original robot masters and master weapons and an additional 8 secondary weapons that are unique for Mega Man and Bass, four upgrade items, a shop, unique things in each stage such as Pyre Man's stage having a cross hair chase after you and try to shoot you, and much more.
Almost four stages are completed, there is a demo of the game below, but keep in mind, none of the stages are 100% completed so everything is subject to change and things still need to be added. Also the only robot master stages available right now are Ghost Man and Saw Man. You can watch the intro, but it's also incomplete but it will give you the whole story anyway. The game also maxes at 50 FPS, which I know, the standard is 60 but this was an unfortunate oversight that can't be changed at this point, but it's not like it's noticeable anyway... I think.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/programs/MMR.zip (http://www.fifthindependent.com/programs/MMR.zip)
So yeah, toss me thoughts, opinions, questions and the whole lot. I need input from people at this stage before the game really takes off.
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Moved to Fan Games forum.
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I like this game so far, but, how do I can change controls?
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Oh crap I over looked making the controls setup actually work. :| I'll get on that and reupload the game.
Also I should give the default controls while I'm at it. I was sort of in a hurry when I posted this because I had to go to town and forgot that part.
Move with the arrow keys, jump with shift, ctrl to fire and enter is menu/start.
Posted on: March 25, 2012, 08:16:49 AM
OK I also forgot to reset the starting points in the stages where I'd been testing it so I did that and I also made all the options menu work except the SFX and BGM test which will have to wait until the game is done. So yeah, download it again and everything should be all peachy keen this time. To change the controls, press menu/start on the button you wish to change and then press the key you want to change it to.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip (http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip)
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Well, you should speed up Mega Arm, because Mega usually gets himself defense-less when he is shooting Mega Arm.
Bass's shots are too slow, if you compare with original games.
You brought BurnerMan's spear to GhostMan level! Gladly, they are easy to avoid.
I think you should add dash button for Bass.
Is GhostMan's level a labyrinth, or it just has multiple routes?
When I reached GhostMan, he was looking at wall, not at Bass. Is it intentional?
Wow, when I reached GhostMan second time, game stuck on "Warning" sign.
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OK I paid special care to all the things you mentioned, I'll include notes below for each point.
Well, you should speed up Mega Arm, because Mega usually gets himself defense-less when he is shooting Mega Arm.
I nearly doubled its flying and returning speed.
Bass's shots are too slow, if you compare with original games.
I sped up his shots a lot while reducing the damage output to half for enemies so it stays balanced.
You brought BurnerMan's spear to GhostMan level! Gladly, they are easy to avoid.
lol I didn't even realize that, but yeah you're right, I unintentionally did.
I think you should add dash button for Bass.
Bass's dash was messed up, something to do with the code that makes him stop dashing after you jump and land on the ground conflicting with just dashing without jumping. It should be much easier now to dash by double tapping but I also made his dash work by pressing down + jump just like Mega Man slides with that button combination.
Is GhostMan's level a labyrinth, or it just has multiple routes?
Ghost Man's level is a labyrinth of sorts, the path to his room is always randomly chosen out of three paths before the stage starts and after you get a game over.
When I reached GhostMan, he was looking at wall, not at Bass. Is it intentional?
There were other things messed up with this route regarding the boss battle itself, mainly because I overlooked programming the proper code for that path you got, I believe I fixed them all though.
Wow, when I reached GhostMan second time, game stuck on "Warning" sign.
Again, I believe I fixed this. It had something to do with the game testing if an object that stops the boss when they fall down from the top of the screen was present on the screen after the warning sign was finished, but in the version you have for some reason it kept getting destroyed after you died.
Anyway, here it is again, that should all be fixed now.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip (http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip)
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The shift button is a poor choice for a button because some computers have that annoying pop up for when you press Shift 5 times consecutively.
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Pretty interesting fan game so far.
Music doesn't seem NES-esque. Or maybe it's not, MegaMan esque. But something about the music feels off. :-/
If you keep charging before you die (or reset the stage?), It gets pretty weird. I managed to turn MegaMan red. ;)
Any mid way points? When I die when I got far into the stage, I started right back at the beginning. :-/
I got through some of Sand Man's stage, but the mini boss just went off screen and did not return.
Maybe you should have completed designing these stages before making them playable, because I had to restart a lot of times due to this. :P
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The shift button is a poor choice for a button because some computers have that annoying pop up for when you press Shift 5 times consecutively.
stickykeys? im pretty sure that can get turned off.
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stickykeys? im pretty sure that can get turned off.
Just bring up the menu with the 5-press thingy and from there, you can turn off every single one of them.
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Music doesn't seem NES-esque. Or maybe it's not, MegaMan esque. But something about the music feels off. :-/
Maybe because I made use of the DPCM channel that can play low quality WAV files and Mega Man games on the NES didn't use that? I know that isn't accurate to the NES Mega Man formula because NES Mega Man games never used the DPCM channel but I wanted to do some thing different with the game to make it unique from the other NES Mega Man games. In the music file however there are only five channels like the NES had and the instruments are recordings of actual NES waveforms so yeah I dunno, maybe I just didn't get the style right or something. Maybe you could study it and try to elaborate on this point?
If you keep charging before you die (or reset the stage?), It gets pretty weird. I managed to turn MegaMan red. ;)
That's a weird glitch. Wow. But I think I know why that is and I'm going to fix it right now. Probably has to do with the color replace function getting interrupted mid-frame and I just did a color replace function to return Mega Man to his original colors when he dies and it seemingly fixed that problem.
Any mid way points? When I die when I got far into the stage, I started right back at the beginning. :-/
The stages generally take 5 minutes to complete. I have a midway point but I was thinking I'd add a second midway point if someone brought this up. I'll get on that after I post this message.
I got through some of Sand Man's stage, but the mini boss just went off screen and did not return.
Yeah, Sand Man's stage is one of the stages you can't complete because the stage itself and the miniboss are not done. The miniboss in Sand Man's stage is supposed to be entirely different from Ghost Man's miniboss where it creates tornadoes or something, I dunno, I haven't thought out something for it yet.
Maybe you should have completed designing these stages before making them playable, because I had to restart a lot of times due to this. :P
lol :p I just wanted to get some ideas and feedback before I keep going with designing the game.
The shift button is a poor choice for a button because some computers have that annoying pop up for when you press Shift 5 times consecutively.
I will change the default controls to S and A for jump and fire respectively. I know shift is a poor choice but I sort of forgot because I always turn sticky keys off. I gotta change the coding that loads the options.dat file anyway so it has default values in case the file is deleted because as it is, if you delete the file the game becomes totally messed up with every options.dat value equaling 0. I changed fire to A and jump to S.
Anyway, I uploaded it again with all this fixed aside from the music, which I don't know yet what the issue was with it.
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I played Pyre Man and Ghost Man and noticed some bugs.
Pyreman: The slide stops working after you lose a life. The stage is incomplete which you may know already.
Ghostman: When you take the low road the first time. There is a spider that when dead stays on screen and still attacks you. I also reached Ghostman himself and died. When I got back there the gate wouldn't appear. Also Rush Coil malfunctions underwater.
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I played Pyre Man and Ghost Man and noticed some bugs.
Pyreman: The slide stops working after you lose a life. The stage is incomplete which you may know already.
I couldn't replicate this issue, is there anything else you were doing at the time? I'm still looking into it nonetheless and will report back with a new version when I fix this. I'll also try to at least finish the maps on Sand Man and Pyre Man's stages before I upload again.
Ghostman: When you take the low road the first time. There is a spider that when dead stays on screen and still attacks you. I also reached Ghostman himself and died. When I got back there the gate wouldn't appear. Also Rush Coil malfunctions underwater.
OK I fixed the spider, it stays on screen after dying because it refused to generate a spider web line to the ceiling which the thing checks for to destroy it when it dies, but there wasn't one present so it got stuck in a loop. This happened because the game was only checking for the first spider in priority at the time of creating two of them at the same time. The gate also didn't appear because I messed up in programming the checkpoints after adding another checkpoint because N-Mario thought there were none. You had reached the last checkpoint but the game thought you were supposed to start back at the second checkpoint, but you were supposed to restart in the boss gate hallway. This should be fixed now. Also I fixed the Rush Coil, that was an oversight on my part.
Thanks guys, you're really helping with finding bugs I missed in game because I haven't had time to play test it much. If you have any ideas for the game as well, just toss them out, I'm open to ideas. Also Storm Man and Blast Man still need designed, if anyone wants to design them that would be awesome. Also if you have any ideas for modding the weapons or enemies or anything, toss it out by all means and I'll try to do it if it's feasible and cool.
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Playing as Bass:
If you push down+jump in mid-air you will be pushed forward.
In some occiasions I could dash backwards. I think this happening when you dash forward, turn around (but don't move), and then dash again (pressing down+jump).
Playing as Megaman:
I reached mini-boss on GhostMan's level. I was beating him, when I SUDDENLY turned red! Is it intentional? I was using only charge shots, if that helps. After death he's still red.
(http://s018.radikal.ru/i527/1203/da/90406c13d264.png)
I can't harm that spider after I killed first one.
When Mega is red, life energy, weapon energy and bolts are black.
(http://s018.radikal.ru/i522/1203/1b/66f41426cbff.png)
The End. Temporary?
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i618/1203/84/25723405ab9b.png)
Lost all lives, "Continue", and then this.
When I lost to GhostMan, I was put in the second checkpoint, not in the hallway before boss.
(http://s017.radikal.ru/i439/1203/da/6bba2045f040.png)
After charging a lot.
Minor detail:
Skull Joe can't harm you in MM4, when his bones are scattered on floor. In this game they can.
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i620/1203/00/0b79fe592407.png)
This jump is hard for Megaman.
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If you push down+jump in mid-air you will be pushed forward.
I overlooked where it checks if Bass is standing on the floor or not when you try to initiate a dash. This is now fixed.
In some occiasions I could dash backwards. I think this happening when you dash forward, turn around (but don't move), and then dash again (pressing down+jump).
I couldn't replicate this yet, but I'm keeping it in mind. Try to figure out the exact conditions required for it to happen if you would please.
I reached mini-boss on GhostMan's level. I was beating him, when I SUDDENLY turned red! Is it intentional? I was using only charge shots, if that helps. After death he's still red.
OK I finally took a look at each frame of color swapping quite carefully, and I think I weeded this problem out finally.
I can't harm that spider after I killed first one.
I fixed this.
When Mega is red, life energy, weapon energy and bolts are black.
I believe this is fixed as well.
The End. Temporary?
The room where you fight Ghost Man is always randomly placed on one of three paths. You got one of the dud paths.
Lost all lives, "Continue", and then this.
When I lost to GhostMan, I was put in the second checkpoint, not in the hallway before boss.
I fixed this. Overlooked some things.
Skull Joe can't harm you in MM4, when his bones are scattered on floor. In this game they can.
I changed this, thanks for pointing it out.
This jump is hard for Megaman.
I uploaded it again just for good measure as I'm about to go to bed. Hopefully most of that stuff is fixed, I couldn't figure out how to replicate where Mega Man couldn't slide after dying in Pyre Man's stage or how Bass dashes backwards but I'm keeping it in mind. Maybe you guys can figure out Bass's problem before me. I made the unfinished stages hidden on the stage select.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip (http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip)
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Why is it that Mega Man only shoots after you release fire button? You're supposed to shoot when you press it, not release it. Even if you start holding fire button, you're still supposed to shoot at least 1 bullet. :P
When I killed a skull joe when he threw its weapon, the weapon just stood there in place. X_X
Before screen transition, megamans animation stops. During scrteen transition, MegaMan's animation plays. This is normal ala MM2. However, after screen transitions in your game, MegaMan's animation still plays before control is restored. in MM2, MegaMan's animation stopped after the screen transition until control was restored.
If you hold jump button when attempting to climb up, you can't climb a ladder. Is this intentional?
If memory serves, the mega arm still attacked enemies after it is shot while it is coming back toward Mega Man in MMV. Though I could be wrong. In your game, it doesn't hit them when it's coming back.
There's still a color swapping glitch. It happened to me when I released charge while sliding, and he didn't fire until he stopped sliding.
I don't recall any of the E, M, W tanks, or the lives changing color with MegaMan in the weapons menu screen. In your game, they do.
After losing a life to the mini boss in ghost man stage, the mini boss does not return and I can advance to the next screen. Intentional?
Not sure how this gitch happened, but after beating ghost man, and going to saw man stage, megaman started moon walking when you move left.
At the moving saw area of saw man stage, there is not enough time to dodge the saws even with sliding. Either move some of the saws up a bit, or make it so during sliding, you can immediately jump up. I lost a life because I was confused, and stopped sliding after you hit jump.
You can keep pressing start button on the robot master intro screen, the menu/confirm sound plays.
Playing with Bass. If you defeat a robot master, and go to another stage, the glitch happens where you can walk backwards. He can't shoot in multiple directions, only strait. There seems to be a glitch here where you can't even begin to start walking forwards, but tip-toeing. Though you can still jump, and then start walking after landing from a jump.
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Before screen transition, megamans animation stops. During scrteen transition, MegaMan's animation plays. This is normal ala MM2. However, after screen transitions in your game, MegaMan's animation still plays before control is restored. in MM2, MegaMan's animation stopped after the screen transition until control was restored.
You mean like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbotQMKSGmA ?
Posted on: March 26, 2012, 07:03:50 PM
At the moving saw area of saw man stage, there is not enough time to dodge the saws even with sliding. Either move some of the saws up a bit, or make it so during sliding, you can immediately jump up. I lost a life because I was confused, and stopped sliding after you hit jump.
If you standing on low floor, you can stand between saws and don't be hit by them.
Posted on: March 26, 2012, 07:15:27 PM
Also, found the cause of backward dashing.
If you dash (but don't release "down" button), then turn back (still holding "down" button) and push jump - you will dash backwards.
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You mean like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbotQMKSGmA ?
Except that I believe he is going more for a MM2 esque style engine. Taking it he's using the old NES graphic tile handing on the left side. Animation pausing is not true in MM9 or MM10, but animation did stop in MM1 and MM2 before control was restored after screen transitions.
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At the moving saw area of saw man stage, there is not enough time to dodge the saws even with sliding. Either move some of the saws up a bit, or make it so during sliding, you can immediately jump up. I lost a life because I was confused, and stopped sliding after you hit jump.
This area is possible with Bass (at least), but you have to be FAST!
Also, after that you'll have to deal with bunch of conveyor belts and MOLES. o//////o O:<
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This area is possible with Bass (at least), but you have to be FAST!
Also, after that you'll have to deal with bunch of conveyor belts and MOLES. o//////o O:<
Yea, I know its possible with Bass. I just finished the stage with him. But if he's going to make a game with character select, at least make it fair for the other characters too. Saw Man's stage is a little harder to pass using Mega Man due to stopping a slide by pressing jump button. Maybe I was more comfortable of his slide ability in MM3-MM5. Though I think this guy was going for the slide movement in MM6.
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At the moving saw area of saw man stage, there is not enough time to dodge the saws even with sliding.
Not true. I made it through with Megaman and the slide fine. I didn't have to use the gaps between saws or anything. In fact, I didn't realize that was possible.
I do agree to get rid of MM6's sliding though. Needs that jump cancel.
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Why is it that Mega Man only shoots after you release fire button? You're supposed to shoot when you press it, not release it. Even if you start holding fire button, you're still supposed to shoot at least 1 bullet.
I thought maybe it was better the other way but I now put the way you mentioned in the game.
When I killed a skull joe when he threw its weapon, the weapon just stood there in place. X_X
I don't know why this would happen, the creation of the bone and the setting of its velocity and such are in the same line of code so it's not like it could be interrupted after being created. I tried putting a condition that checks if the flag is off for when the Skeleton Joe is dead before it can throw a bone so hopefully that is fixed now.
EDIT: I changed the method by which the bones' velocity and throw height are thrown, so hopefully that corrects it.
Before screen transition, megamans animation stops. During scrteen transition, MegaMan's animation plays. This is normal ala MM2. However, after screen transitions in your game, MegaMan's animation still plays before control is restored. in MM2, MegaMan's animation stopped after the screen transition until control was restored.
You're right, and I changed this.
If you hold jump button when attempting to climb up, you can't climb a ladder. Is this intentional?
It was intentional but I took it out. I haven't had time to test it however so hopefully there's nothing screwed up with me removing it.
If memory serves, the mega arm still attacked enemies after it is shot while it is coming back toward Mega Man in MMV. Though I could be wrong. In your game, it doesn't hit them when it's coming back.
I uploaded a new version without checking this, I will check it a bit later in MMV to see if it is true.
EDIT: I checked MMV and Mega Man's fist does not harm enemies when it's returning.
There's still a color swapping glitch. It happened to me when I released charge while sliding, and he didn't fire until he stopped sliding.
I think this is fixed now as well.
I don't recall any of the E, M, W tanks, or the lives changing color with MegaMan in the weapons menu screen. In your game, they do.
I was going to fix this but hadn't gotten around to it yet but it should be fixed now.
After losing a life to the mini boss in ghost man stage, the mini boss does not return and I can advance to the next screen. Intentional?
I don't know yet why this is but I've put it on my list of things that need fixed.
EDIT: Apparently I forgot to set a variable that determines whether or not you're at a midway point past the blocker that keeps you from leaving the screen of the midboss. I set this and tested it so it shouldn't be doing this anymore.
Not sure how this gitch happened, but after beating ghost man, and going to saw man stage, megaman started moon walking when you move left.
I think this is due to the fact I didn't clear out some data from the previous stage, but I've done that now, so it should be kosher.
At the moving saw area of saw man stage, there is not enough time to dodge the saws even with sliding. Either move some of the saws up a bit, or make it so during sliding, you can immediately jump up. I lost a life because I was confused, and stopped sliding after you hit jump.
I can do this with Mega Man but I could make it a bit easier if it's flat out impossible for you. Just give me a screenshot if you can of the location you're having difficulty with.
You can keep pressing start button on the robot master intro screen, the menu/confirm sound plays.
I fixed this I think. I didn't set a flag to disable the button press itself when you press it there.
Playing with Bass. If you defeat a robot master, and go to another stage, the glitch happens where you can walk backwards. He can't shoot in multiple directions, only strait. There seems to be a glitch here where you can't even begin to start walking forwards, but tip-toeing. Though you can still jump, and then start walking after landing from a jump.
Again, this is where I didn't clear out data from the previous stage, but it should be fixed now.
I do agree to get rid of MM6's sliding though. Needs that jump cancel.
I did this, you can now jump from a slide.
Here is a new version with hopefully most of those things fixed.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip (http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip)
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Thanks for the update. The slide jump cancel does help with the moving saw part. :)
Maybe you should remove the last saw at the very end right before the screen transition. While possible, it is almost nearly impossible even by dashing forwards rapidly. Just a thought.
During screen transitions, shouldn't items be invisible until you gain control back? It might be different in MM9 or MM10, but you're going for a MM2-mm3 esque NES engine correct?
Did you move Ghost Man's door? When I reached the end where it was before, it is just a wall now.
Also, when I shot a bullet here, sometimes the bullet got placed above MegMan's head. I don't know how it's being produced. :-/
(http://gcnmario.free.fr/game-bug.gif)
It seems to be due to a Hotspot position error? Because I shot the bullet like this facing the other way while running against a wall.
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Did you move Ghost Man's door? When I reached the end where it was before, it is just a wall now.
The End. Temporary?
The room where you fight Ghost Man is always randomly placed on one of three paths. You got one of the dud paths.
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EDIT: I checked MMV and Mega Man's fist does not harm enemies when it's returning.
It most certainly does. I confirmed it myself just now.
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Mega Man's shots are appearing above his head because of some stupid animation error I thought I'd weeded out but apparently it's still there, I just programmed Mega Man to fire as soon as his begin walking animation plays where he moves he front leg a little before walking and it always does this. This bug pisses me off most of all because it is so stubborn with being removed. I put a band aid on it anyway and forced the animation to change when Mega Man or Bass fires while beginning to walk.
I guess I was wrong with the Mega Fist hurting enemies when it returns, I guess I'll have to change that. Thanks for clearing that up.
Anyway, here's a new version again with those issues seemingly fixed.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip (http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip)
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wait.... you have megaman and his mega buster out frames as one object? What I always did was have MegaMan as one object, and then his mega buster arm out frames as another object. Turn this invisible, and when player presses button to change variable, make the buster arm out frames visible, & shoot the object. This would have corrected any animation error displays, and sync animations with MegaMan's normal animations. just saying. ;)
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Yeah I have them as one object. I think the easiest thing to do would've been to set the bullets to the sprite's hotspot instead of an action point since Mega Man always fires his bullets at the same position from his sprite in the original Mega Man games I think. I know when he's walking the bullets' created position is always the same relative to Mega Man, his buster bobs up and down when he walks, but the bullets remain steady if you know what I mean. '>.>
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Yea, though I make the bullets appear at megaman shooting's action point, and still made the bullets at a steady position. Just have to work with it. ;)
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wait.... you have megaman and his mega buster out frames as one object? What I always did was have MegaMan as one object, and then his mega buster arm out frames as another object. Turn this invisible, and when player presses button to change variable, make the buster arm out frames visible, & shoot the object. This would have corrected any animation error displays, and sync animations with MegaMan's normal animations. just saying. ;)
I did the same thing back in the day. Just keep Megs' two animation objects synced and you're good to go.
Even in C++, when I did a Megaman themed experiment, I have two animation instances in his object, doing the same basic concept.
I was however using SNES and PS1 sprites for these, so I had to bind the buster nozzle to the 'action point' for firing, since bullets weren't fired the same height with those sprites of course. The difference here though was I also made the buster it's own segmented part, removable to compensate for the Mega-Arm alternate weapon I coded in. Same for using the hand instead of the buster, like some NES games did. I did the copout and just had him in his firing stance for the Mega-Arm being shot out, but, realistically in MMV he changes back to a normal stance waiting for it to return, just without an arm. What I would have done is make ANOTHER instance of animations just for the MegaArm variations, but I didn't bother to for the scope of the experiment, but did at least prove the point to myself that it was a viable method to do so.
I believe 5th is right though, in that the NES bullet paths don't bob, just Megaman's buster that seems to. Either way though, the double object visibility method is still a very viable way to go about it, and perhaps the easiest in some cases.
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I think I got it fixed this time. I just told it to set his animation to the shooting + walking animation if the flag is on where he fired when his begin walk animation is playing. After I did that it didn't do that bug anymore. For some reason the code to make his shooting + walking animation play normally is getting interrupted by his begin walk animation even though I told it not to.
I want to try to avoid using two different objects for the same sprite anyway because of how easily they could fall out of sync.
Posted on: March 29, 2012, 06:14:48 AM
OK I finished and made Pyre Man's stage available. You won't be able to get the MEGAMANR letter or do the boss order, but play his stage if you want to.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip (http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip)
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Just keep them in sync. Have the main object, without buster, be the primary object. The secondary, with buster, is always set to the animation and frame values of the primary, non buster, version. This will ensure they're always in sync. Remember to keep the animations from playing on the buster one.
This way the secondary, and any other object beyond that, will remain in sync at all times from the original source. You have to make sure all the animations are in the same order though. The idea is, whatever animation and frame the normal version is on, the buster version will also be on. They must be structured the same exact way; same order of animations, same frame count, etc. Only the non-buster version needs to have frame timings and such though, since all other versions look to the primary non buster version for all the animation and frame info it needs.
Posted on: March 29, 2012, 06:50:51 AM
Just played the new version. I have to ask, who designs the stage elements?
Also, for Pyre Man; his shots seems hard for me to see. I think because they don't have much contrast with the background color, sharing the same red apparently. Perhaps making them brighter will help that. I like his pattern though. It's a pretty good and classic feeling boss. Fast paced too.
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I will look into this or an alternate method if the shot placement glitch is still present in this version. I'm fairly certain it's gone though because I created a line of code to specifically initiate the glitch and it no longer happens in that code.
As for the stage elements, I'm designing them with some ideas tossed out here and there from the friends involved in it. Why do you ask?
You're right, Pyre Man's shots don't contrast enough with the background, the red fiery part of the Fire Seeker isn't the exact shade of red, but it's awfully close. I changed the palette of Pyre Man's stage quite a bit and put a black outline around the Fire Seeker itself. Now the stage looks a bit more diverse and colorful instead of pure reddish tones. I uploaded this change.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip (http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip)
I also noticed a bug with items that spawn from enemies that they sometimes hover instead of flying into the air and then bouncing off the ground, I'm trying to figure out why this is. :O
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I think you have a good basic working skill of how stage design should be handled. I was impressed by a lot of aspects of them. I do have some concerns though. Perhaps a more direct talk, say on MSN or something?
As for PyreMan's changes; Outlines don't fix the contrast issue here, as the outline is also dark. As a general rule of game design, selective contrast and lighting help the player to determine, and notice, what is and isn't an active object/tile/floor/whatever or something to look out for. Likewise, making an active object colored darker it blends enough into the background makes it less noticeable and harder to see. The outline helped minimally, but the true fix is to have the object colored brighter in some fashion.
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OK I sent you a PM regarding contact over MSN, I explained in there why I need to add you first for it to work.
I will try and brighten Pyre Man and the Fire Seeker at any rate. I liked his palette so I was hoping those palette changes would help, and while I think they did improve the overall look of the stage, it's not helping the visibility of those two as you said.
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Pyreman himself is fine. It's just his fire seeker.
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Pyre Man's stage is definitely inspired, I give you that. It just want to note, though, that it somewhat suffers from lacking an overarching theme. The stage has about three gimmicks of which only one is linked to fire, and never are the gimmicks used together. If I were you, I'd take the targeting and catcher ideas, and apply these to other stages where they might be better served.
For example, it'd be neat if the targetting actually had an origin or source. If you had an actual boss that used this gimmick in battle, it'd have the players realize during the battle that the boss was trying to shoot them down earlier in the stage.
Another advantage of giving some of these gimmicks stages of their own is that you can introduce them more gradually, in a controlled environment. Let the player get to know what these gimmicks do before they result in deaths. While you're off to a good start with the catchers appearing early on, the saws could stand some introduction, as could Bass' double jump for those just coming off Mega Man 10.
For the saws, all you can really do is set up a scripted scenario where an enemy gets mauled by them, so that the player realizes they're not just part of the background. For Bass, a too high to jump wall or a non-lethal pit jump should do the trick.
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That was pretty much what I wanted to talk about on MSN in greater detail. Bass I can take or leave, since the selection screen indicates double jump. The high amount of separate stage gimmicks in Pyre's stage is my main focus.
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Yeah, I figured this is what you wanted to talk with him about on MSN. I'll let you handle the finer details, though, just wanted to give him a quick overview of the matter at hand.
About Bass; an introduction to his ability shouldn't have been needed if not for the guy changing mechanics in every game he's been in. I know, it's not an entirely realistic expectation to remind the player of Bass' double jump in a game like this, because then you'd have to do it in every stage. But that's nothing a good intro stage can't fix.
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You do have a good point, maybe Storm Man could use the crosshair in his stage instead and then later in the stage when you actually fight him he flies off screen momentarily and attempts to use it on you. I was planning on having the catcher robots appear later in a fortress stage with something a lot trickier to get past with them.
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Will you change used enemies (Changekey Maker, Skeleton Joe and etc) with your own original enemies?
EDIT.
Noticed two new bugs.
1. Shoot with the Mega Buster, then (while bullet is still on screen) change to special weapon, and then you will shoot this weapon! This bug works even if weapon energy is empty.
2. During the fight with Saw Man, I used E-Tank. Then I used M-Tank, and then I got hit while I was still in menu screen! Then I resumed the game and I became invulnerable! Then I paused and unpaused the game and only after that this I got rid of this invulnerability.
Suggestions:
Energy consumption for Fire Seeker is very high because it's Magnet Missile/Vertical Solar Blaze and weapon isn't too strong.
Also, GhostMan's diving and teleportation reminds me Astro Man. Maybe you should make him to appear on side of the room and fly to the another side (and Megaman should jump over him or slide under him, while Bass could just jump and double-jump over him)
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I was going to keep the enemies from previous games the same, unless someone was willing to come up with original enemies to replace them. I can draw the sprites (although if someone would draw them for me that would be awesome), I just would need concept drawings of them that are decent enough I can tell what I'm looking at. Some of the levels that are finished still needed a few original enemies and tiles as well.
I fixed the two bugs you mentioned, the first one was because I didn't turn off the flags related to shooting when the menu pops up and the second was because I had an event that tested for whether or not the player's energy was higher than 28, which if it was to set it back to 28 and turn off global pausing, regardless of whether the pause menu was open or not. I fixed both of those however.
I also worked on the fire seeker, I doubled its damage output and I just remembered to have the items go invisible when the screen scrolls by itself until it stops scrolling. -_-
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In regards to bugs, the only two I've noticed thusfar are:
1. After some strange combo of holding down the movement keys, dashing and getting hit, Bass will start moonwalking across the stage; his back is turned to the direction he's moving, and all shots fired go in the opposite direction.
2. When boldly jumping into the last set of catchers, it's possible for the second one not to spawn at all, leaving sudden death as your only way forward. Related to this is the second to last catcher always despawning immediately after it appears and moves back off-screen. For experienced players this is a minor nuisance, but for those entering the stage for the first time it severely impacts one's understanding of how to cross the gap. It would be best if both were less sensitive to despawning algorithms.
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1. I will try to figure out why this is happening. I have a feeling it has to do with the fact that Mega Man and Bass' directions are falling out of sync because I have the other character invisible but still present when you play as one of them, but it only tests for Mega Man's directions due to the fact that it'll save on the sheer amount of code I have to make. I'm just trying to keep it as simple as possible.
2. I guess this happened for me as well one time when I was playing as Mega Man, but I thought it was just because I accidentally scrolled the catcher off the screen due to a nervous button press or something. I'll look into it more and try to make them attempt to avoid flying off screen.
EDIT:
1. I found there's a bunch of events where Bass' direction is set while Mega Man's is not. I synced them all up so maybe, just maybe this moonwalking issue is no longer present.
2. I made the catchers try to stay on screen while they can still be scrolled off but I still had that bug occur where the last one doesn't spawn at all. I tried increasing the range from the screen that spawn points become active because it was only 16 pixels from the screen but the spawn points for catchers are 32x16 pixels big. So I tried setting 16 to 64 and the bug didn't happen anymore, but it seems to be a random hit and miss situation so I don't know if this fixed it or not.
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Bought an upgrade for Bass Buster.
He can move while shooting only straight, or in other direction too?
Also, IMO, it's really overpowered 8) Maybe it could cost more?
P.S. Explosive Tellies - best place for farming, but they appear immediately and they can cause crossing fire pits to be very difficult.
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Yeah he can't move while aiming diagonally so aiming is easier. I COULD edit his sprites and make him walk while aiming diagonally if you all think that would be better.
I could perhaps make the buster boost cost more, get rid of the double damage OR make his shots fire less rapidly with the buster boost. Which do you think would be coolest to do? I'm leaning towards making his shots fire less rapidly.
The explosive Tellies I named Mobinades (a combination of mobile and grenade) and I can get through without getting hit by them, but to players who are just coming in to this stage, this part could prove to be frustratingly difficult. I will increase the delay where they appear.
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I could perhaps make the buster boost cost more, get rid of the double damage OR make his shots fire less rapidly with the buster boost. Which do you think would be coolest to do? I'm leaning towards making his shots fire less rapidly.
Maybe just make it available only after beating first 8 stages?
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I made Bass' buster with the Buster Boost fire slightly faster than half the speed it fires without it. It would still be extremely overpowered in the fortress stages so I guess this counteracts that. I also reprogrammed the Bass Buster as it totally bypassed the code that prevents that bullet placement glitch and now it appears Bass doesn't do it either.
Also I took out the crosshair in Pyre Man's stage as suggested but moved it to an unavailable place in the game so it can be used when another stage is made. Next I'll be focusing on making Sand Man's stage finished and available.
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A good suggestion for Sandman's stage is to add enemies that shoot sleep powder to make you sleep standing up, unable to move, and potentially vulnerable to other enemies.
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That could be easily done by just turning on the flag that disables the controls and setting Mega Man's animation to the blinking sprite while he's out. I like the pun it creates for the name Sand Man. ;) It could even be that you need to press buttons rapidly to wake up.
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Since we on the subject about Sandman puns, throw in an enemy that attacks with a Singapore Cane or maybe Sandman himself attacks with one as an alternate attack in reference to Sandman the wrestler.
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I've now made Sand Man's stage accessible, but not everything that has been suggested previously has been implemented although I have plans to do so. What's different with this version besides that than what was there previously?
- Stages now have more diverse tiles.
- Bugs are fixed.
- Buster Boost does not make the Mega Arm auto aim anymore, instead it picks up items you aimed it toward.
- Mega Arm now blasts through enemies on the final blow and continues instead of returning.
- Music rendering is maybe more faithful to the NES style because I changed the resampling type but I couldn't tell the difference.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip (http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip)
As always, if you have any suggestions, ideas or whatever, tell me them and I'll be glad to implement them if they sound good.
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Just a suggestion, but maybe you can do an update system for your fan game instead of us having to re-download the game. I know its possible because IWBTB has done it, and I'm 90% sure that was done with MMF2. ;)
The reason I haven't done it yet is because I'm still in the development stages. Though your fan game is a lot farther anyway. :-/
I don't know, I'm just thinking about something..... Something that would help in progress I guess.
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I would like to do that but I don't know how. I suppose I'll ask on the Clickteam forums.
I was also experimenting with online connectivity in MMF2, I'm wanting to make MMR have an online two player mode but I don't know how I would pull this off with the pause menu being integral to the game.
EDIT: I've got the auto updater thing half working, but it's sort of tripping up. I will let you guys know when it works and is uploaded.
Posted on: April 02, 2012, 05:52:55
OK I managed to get it to update/add files when they are available on my server. You'll no longer have to download it manually. owob Just be sure to unzip it as I don't know what will happen if it tries to update in the zip file.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip (http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip)
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The blocks are nearly impossible in Sand Man's stage. They need to stay a tad longer, but not too long. I kept jumping, and I still fell on the spikes near the end of the first phase. I don't think I even have time to slide or dash before jumping off of them.
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OK I decreased their animation speed from 44 to 36, hopefully that helps.
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I've run into a major bug it would seem, in prye man.
I got very very far through the level, and got beat, never used it yet, but i saw a ladder to go down, but i didn't yet, i just kept on going right, with no clue what was going to happen since it was my first time ever...and the screen went right into nothingness, couldnt turn back..so i kept going but there was still nothing on screen...and eventually i just got stuck permenately forever with no where or way to go...
http://postimage.org/image/go5lsj47h/
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OK I managed to get it to update/add files when they are available on my server. You'll no longer have to download it manually. Just be sure to unzip it as I don't know what will happen if it tries to update in the zip file.
For some reason the updater makes it impossible for me to play the game. It keeps trying to redownload Rockman.exe, prompting a reboot of the game which does nothing more than repeat the process ad infinitum. Might I suggest giving the player choice of wanting to update or not?
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That's weird, it's doing the update forever loop for me as well. I will have to look into this and try reuploading the file.
I've run into a major bug it would seem, in prye man.
Did this happen right after you picked up the part for Beat?
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yea, saw the little icon of the wing, and got it. I never used it though.
I just kept walking to the right instead of going down the ladder right next to the icon...cause i was just curious, ya know ?? And it just ended up making me go into nothing-ness..and i was forced to just close the whole program..
oh...and the very start of the level..i dont know what or how it happened but...sliding got disabled for whatever reason, and i couldn't continue ...but luckily i had rush jet to bypass a sliding part. :(
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OK it wasn't updating the EXE correctly because there were copying file sharing issues. I've put a band aid on it for now. Download the file one more time. o//////o
http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip (http://www.fifthindependent.com/SECRETOMGLOL/MMR.zip)
As for Pyre Man's stage, did you by any chance die before the stage did that to you?
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In megaman games you can slide over 1 tile gaps. However it seems he kind of stops over them in your game.
Sometimes the items float in the air when enemies drop them. I don't know how to reproduce it. it just happens. :-/
If you slide, then pause, and unpause, he slides slower.
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no...i never died a single time while playing the stage for my first time...
try it yourself...get to that point in the stage where there's a ladder...walk to the right...dont go down....you find beat and pick it up...you keep going right and see another ladder...ignore it and keep going right...and the screen scrolls right...into blank emptyness....just keep running around and your just stuck forever...
im not lieing, that screenshot was my proof. I dont have the time to test it again right now..
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In megaman games you can slide over 1 tile gaps. However it seems he kind of stops over them in your game.
Sometimes the items float in the air when enemies drop them. I don't know how to reproduce it. it just happens. :-/
If you slide, then pause, and unpause, he slides slower.
The first thing will take me a little bit to fix, but I plan to fix it nonetheless. The second thing I already noticed, but I myself and dumbfounded as to why it occurs. I have my ideas, but I can't figure out for the life of me why it happens. I fixed the third thing but I won't be releasing an update until I fix all of this in this post.
no...i never died a single time while playing the stage for my first time...
try it yourself...get to that point in the stage where there's a ladder...walk to the right...dont go down....you find beat and pick it up...you keep going right and see another ladder...ignore it and keep going right...and the screen scrolls right...into blank emptyness....just keep running around and your just stuck forever...
im not lieing, that screenshot was my proof. I dont have the time to test it again right now..
I'm not saying you're lying, I'm just trying to get a feel for when the problem occurs. I have a good idea of how it happens, but I'm not sure why it occurs. I am fairly certain it is also causing Mega Man to be unable to slide even though it seems entirely unrelated.
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Not Found
Sorry, but you are looking for something that isn't here.
I want to download, but I keep getting this.
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Oh, yeah, sorry about that. :D I changed the URL because I decided it's not much of a secret anymore with someone having already uploaded a Let's Play video of it. Try this URL instead.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/programs/MMR.zip
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Well. What can I say about Sand Man's level.
Dissapearing platforms look nice. They hard, yes, but not if playing as Bass. :)
Snake mini-boss isn't hard, just tedious, because her tail often appear behind her head.
I like how Sand Man uses Sand Shield after being hit, although, if you shoot him when he shot, he won't activate his shield.
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I could slow the disappearing green blocks down further if they're still too hard.
Sand Man actually uses his shield if you fired and/or your arm is sticking out from firing and he's not jumping or shooting which is supposed to be his weakness in his pattern. Bass has it easier here as well because he doesn't stick his arm out as long if he doesn't have the buster boost equipped.
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Well, well, I've successfully crashed the game:
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g295/ZanSidera/MMR_Crash.png)
Destroyed the catcher, making it drop a big life recovery which restored my life to max. Subsequently the game froze up with the background elements still animating. The menu was inaccessible.
OK it wasn't updating the EXE correctly because there were copying file sharing issues. I've put a band aid on it for now. Download the file one more time.
The update loop still happens from time to time. From what I can tell, a small pop up window is supposed to appear saying Rockman.exe updated. But it doesn't, and the Updater.exe keeps running in the background. Only by either opening or deleting these newly created updater files have I been able to break the loop.
I'm not saying you're lying, I'm just trying to get a feel for when the problem occurs. I have a good idea of how it happens, but I'm not sure why it occurs. I am fairly certain it is also causing Mega Man to be unable to slide even though it seems entirely unrelated.
You can always just put a wall there.
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Destroyed the catcher, making it drop a big life recovery which restored my life to max. Subsequently the game froze up with the background elements still animating. The menu was inaccessible.
I think I may have fixed this, but I'm not entirely sure, it seems like there's some glitches and bugs that only happen when the game is built into an EXE.
The update loop still happens from time to time. From what I can tell, a small pop up window is supposed to appear saying Rockman.exe updated. But it doesn't, and the Updater.exe keeps running in the background. Only by either opening or deleting these newly created updater files have I been able to break the loop.
I think I fixed this as well, I made it show a bunch of popups in the process of it replacing Rockman.exe and it got stuck in a loop but now it isn't... but you never know, it could still be present, I have a limited means of testing things like this.
You can always just put a wall there.
I could, but then it wouldn't be faithful to the limitations of the NES which I'm trying to get to as close as I can. The parallax would be possible by doing a horizontal scroll region, but if I put walls there, they would also scroll with the parallax image.
Also, I put in the option to run the game in 256 colors mode, so that fades on minibosses and the screen and other such things look more authentic to the NES format, if you pick it instead of true color mode. However, it runs more slowly on certain computers because it's impossible for hardware acceleration mode to be active during this. I think it's just slower computers that this happens on, but it could be fast computers as well. I went ahead and put it in so you guys can test it if any of you have good computers and get back to me on it. If it doesn't work smoothly even on fast computers I'll just remove 256 color mode.
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Another minor thing that's been bugging me in Pyre Man's stage is that buster shots and mega arm break on the top of the screen; it's near impossible to fight the metools up there. Similarly, Rock's jump mechanics appear to be different that high up; you cannot clear the same distance as before. I'm not sure how the actual games handle this, though.
I think I fixed this as well, I made it show a bunch of popups in the process of it replacing Rockman.exe and it got stuck in a loop but now it isn't... but you never know, it could still be present, I have a limited means of testing things like this.
From what I can tell, it appears to function properly now.
I could, but then it wouldn't be faithful to the limitations of the NES which I'm trying to get to as close as I can. The parallax would be possible by doing a horizontal scroll region, but if I put walls there, they would also scroll with the parallax image.
Upon review, I see what you mean with the horizontal scroll making it impossible to add a wall there. Maybe a fade to black during the previous screen transition would allow you to remove the scrolling background before getting to the Beat item? Although that wouldn't eliminate the same issue occurring on the left side as well. From my own experiments, the forbidden transition occurs 100% of the time when using Rush Jet to go where you shouldn't go.
In regards to being faithful to NES limitations. Would you be willing to listen to remarks about palette limitations being breached?
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Another minor thing that's been bugging me in Pyre Man's stage is that buster shots and mega arm break on the top of the screen; it's near impossible to fight the metools up there. Similarly, Rock's jump mechanics appear to be different that high up; you cannot clear the same distance as before. I'm not sure how the actual games handle this, though.
I can try to modify this a bit. I have an idea how to modify both things.
From my own experiments, the forbidden transition occurs 100% of the time when using Rush Jet to go where you shouldn't go.
Ah yeah that clears things up, I was able to reproduce the glitch myself doing that. I forgot to make the Rush Jet limited to how high it can go off screen so it doesn't pass the invisible obstacles off the top of the screen.
In regards to being faithful to NES limitations. Would you be willing to listen to remarks about palette limitations being breached?
Yeah I would be willing to listen to these. Sometimes I overlook the palette limitations of four palettes per background and sprites, each with three colors and a transparent color.
Also, if any of you downloaded or updated yesterday or today, download this version of the updater as it can't update itself now since I fixed some problems with it where it shouldn't need updated ever again.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/programs/mmr/Updater.exe
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Ah yeah that clears things up, I was able to reproduce the glitch myself doing that. I forgot to make the Rush Jet limited to how high it can go off screen so it doesn't pass the invisible obstacles off the top of the screen.
You might also want to know that you can repeat the same glitch in Ghost Man's stage at the first screen transition, and invoke a second variation (for the vertical screen transition that occurs later on) which allows you walk above the stage.
Yeah I would be willing to listen to these. Sometimes I overlook the palette limitations of four palettes per background and sprites, each with three colors and a transparent color.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g295/ZanSidera/MMR_Pal1.gif)
As you know, every palette requires it's first entry to be "transparency". In sprites this results in the background tiles being shown, but for the tiles themselves this would show the wash color instead. Since the wash color appears to be black, the palette you're using for the clouds (4 colors without black) could not be feasible on NES.
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Yeah I would be willing to listen to these.
I think this is a first. We have a guy who really cares about authentic quality for once. It's refreshing.
Zan's explanation is pretty much the basic foundation of all NES styled graphics. We can discuss it in greater detail on MSN sometime. Though, as far as I know, at least for MMF1.5, there is no way to get a true authentic palette system going. With careful planning though, it might be possible to get as accurate as we can.
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You might also want to know that you can repeat the same glitch in Ghost Man's stage at the first screen transition, and invoke a second variation (for the vertical screen transition that occurs later on) which allows you walk above the stage.
I think I fixed this for everything except maybe what you mentioned in the second variation as I wasn't sure where you meant. I tried jumping over a wall in Pyre Man's stage with the Rush Jet and I wasn't able to. I also fixed the jumping and shooting off the top of the screen for sure.
As you know, every palette requires it's first entry to be "transparency". In sprites this results in the background tiles being shown, but for the tiles themselves this would show the wash color instead. Since the wash color appears to be black, the palette you're using for the clouds (4 colors without black) could not be feasible on NES.
Yeah you're right, you've got a good eye for detail there. I changed this as well.
I think this is a first. We have a guy who really cares about authentic quality for once. It's refreshing.
Yeah I'm doing it as a sort of challenge to myself and also I figured if I was going to do it in NES style I might as well do the whole shebang.
Zan's explanation is pretty much the basic foundation of all NES styled graphics. We can discuss it in greater detail on MSN sometime. Though, as far as I know, at least for MMF1.5, there is no way to get a true authentic palette system going. With careful planning though, it might be possible to get as accurate as we can.[/qupte]
Yeah MMF2 doesn't have a way of doing a palette system either, although it can be faked with careful planning. I can do color replace and already have and I loaded the actually NES palette into every frame of the game and put it in 256 colors, although this is turned off when hardware acceleration mode is on as Direct 3D8 doesn't support 256 colors.
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I think I fixed this for everything except maybe what you mentioned in the second variation as I wasn't sure where you meant. I tried jumping over a wall in Pyre Man's stage with the Rush Jet and I wasn't able to. I also fixed the jumping and shooting off the top of the screen for sure.
This section:
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g295/ZanSidera/MMR_JetGlitch.gif)
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:O How did you manage pulling that off?
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At the load saved game menu, you can press enter multiple times to make the confirm sound play.
Also, is it natural that Bass can double jump after jumping down from a ladder in this game? I never tested this in Mega Man 10.
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I can't seem to replicate the confirmation sound bug at this time. I don't remember if Bass can double jump after climbing a ladder in games like Mega Man & Bass or Mega Man 10, but I thought maybe it made sense that he'd be able to after clinging to a ladder because he was grounded to something there.
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isn't Bass only able to shoot 4 bullets in a row? looks like he can shoot more than that in your game.
Megaman against the snake miniboss, if your shots keep getting deflected, eventually you no longer can shoot.
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Bass is hard coded to only shoot four bullets at a time. I guess it looks like more due to the speed of his shots. The glitch with Mega Man's shots is because they were marked to become inactive when they get so far from the window preventing them from going far enough off the screen to be destroyed. I fixed this so run the updater.
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:O How did you manage pulling that off?
Fly up there with Rush Jet, Rock will disappear into the ceiling. By pressing the controls in either direction you'll move in the opposite one, which allows you to screen transition left, or scroll all the way right.
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Oh I think I fixed that when I changed how Mega Man is stopped from going too high off the screen with or without Rush Jet, I can't get it to happen now myself; try running updater to see if that fixes it.
EDIT: Yeah I reverted the changes I made back to the way things were originally and that glitch happens in that code, but not the new code seemingly.
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If it makes any difference in your game, the spikes are supposed to act like floors. If you're temporary invincible & flashing from getting hit by an enemy, you can stand on the spikes until you're back to normal. In your game, one of the areas with spikes on the floor I ran through while temporary invincible.
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Oh, I could've swore in some games they don't act as obstacles. Well, I'll fix that but I won't upload the change tonight. I'll do it real quick before I go to bed here in a sec.
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Oh, I could've swore in some games they don't act as obstacles. Well, I'll fix that but I won't upload the change tonight. I'll do it real quick before I go to bed here in a sec.
Yea, there are some games (maybe the GB ones) where it's less noticeable, and the spike pit area in MM2 Wily Stage 3 (NES) since they were more than 16x16. Though most cases in the NES games, and in mm9 & mm10, they have acted like floor tile objects as 16x16 tiles to my knowledge.
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I had a DNS change on my server, so the game won't update now.
Download this to fix that.
http://www.fifthindependent.com/programs/MMR.zip
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Downloaded the latest version:
-The pause menu is glitched up entirely.
-Bass' dash should also cross 1 tile wide gaps, IMO.
-Bass' moonwalking can still occur if dashing into enemy with Down + Jump and continuing forward without releasing the arrow key.
-The crusher section in Saw Man's could be somewhat better balanced; while it is possible to clear, it is somewhat too stressful. The level of difficulty is only suitable if a time slow or time stop weapon existed somewhere in the game.
-The scrolling background in the latter half of Saw Man's stage, is entirely unfitting and impossible on NES.
-In that same section, the jump from the second to third conveyor is unfairly biased toward Bss; Rock cannot easily clear it because the ceiling is too low, and the gap too wide.
-As the 'Warning' for the boss is displayed, I was able to make Forte do a little dance, since left and right arrow input is not wholly restricted.
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-How is the pause menu glitched up?
-I will make Bass able to dash across one tile wide gaps.
-I totally split Mega Man and Bass apart into separate entities to prepare for the two player online mode so the moonwalking theoretically should be impossible now.
-I will make the saws a bit slower.
-The scrolling background is supposed to be screws in a sheet of metal. It actually would be possible to pull off as Gravity Man's stage did something similar and Metal Storm has parallax background as well by redrawing the parallax tiles as the screen scrolls, but I will change it to something else since you feel it is unfitting.
-I will fix this jump for Mega Man.
-I think I fixed the input not being wholly restricted but I'm not sure, I will check over the next few days once I get the game to a working state again after I essentially broke it for Bass in order for him to be a separate entity from Mega Man.
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(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g295/ZanSidera/MMR_PauseGlitch.png)
In any given stage, the pause menu is invisible for me, displaying gibberish instead. I can however select weapons and E-tanks by guessing my way through.
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OK I released a new update that hopefully fixed all of that.
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Yeah, that fixed some of it. But about the saws, is there any increment between this and the last speed you used? The previous one was too fast, whereas this one might be just a tiny tad too slow. If not, it's fine.
Anyway, more bugs to report!
-As you noted, Bass is now entirely glitched up. His teleport landing is delayed and his screen transitions do not stop his momentum during the shift. Plus, he can somehow fall through bottomless pits, and end up in darkness. Not to mention, he can still moonwalk by holding the opposite direction after getting hit. The moon walking is in the opposite direction now, though.
-The Rush Jet can and will still allow forbidden screen transitions. Same as before.
-In two separate instances (no wall: left side start Sand Man stage, wall: right sight of saw man boss room), a combination of sliding and getting hurt at the exact corner of the stage, will shift Mega Man off-screen. This will confuse enemy AI, and disable the pause menu too.
-Dying underwater and respawning resulted in the underwater effect remaining in the normal areas; a bubble appears now and again, and Rock acquired super jumping.
-For no apparent reason the game crashed after the get weapon screen for Sand Man.
Also, is Ghost Man's stage incomplete, or is there a special pathway to the boss? I ran into three different dead ends.
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Also, is Ghost Man's stage incomplete, or is there a special pathway to the boss?
There are three boss rooms, but only one is available at time. You reached a dead-end without a boss room.
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-As you noted, Bass is now entirely glitched up. His teleport landing is delayed and his screen transitions do not stop his momentum during the shift. Plus, he can somehow fall through bottomless pits, and end up in darkness. Not to mention, he can still moonwalk by holding the opposite direction after getting hit. The moon walking is in the opposite direction now, though.
I think I fixed up everything broken with Bass here. I missed a lot which should be apparent with the way he acted. :| I couldn't get the damn moonwalking bug to happen still but I found more events where Bass is told to move left and right without his direction changing, so I set his direction in those events.
The Rush Jet can and will still allow forbidden screen transitions. Same as before.
I think this is fixed once and for all, I totally forgot to make the Rush Jet detect for sides of the screen you're not allowed to leave.
In two separate instances (no wall: left side start Sand Man stage, wall: right sight of saw man boss room), a combination of sliding and getting hurt at the exact corner of the stage, will shift Mega Man off-screen. This will confuse enemy AI, and disable the pause menu too.
The way I programmed the characters to slide/dash over one tile wide gaps was flawed and I didn't foresee it. It would actually happen when the player's back was against the wall and they tried to slide/dash. I changed the way it checks for 1 tile wide gaps now, though.
Dying underwater and respawning resulted in the underwater effect remaining in the normal areas; a bubble appears now and again, and Rock acquired super jumping.
I had accidentally made the game set the variables that acted on the jump strength and gravity and then reset the variables that stored the gravity and jump strength values that the first set of variables got their data from. So basically it was setting the jump strength and gravity to the water setting, and then the storing variables got reset instead of the other way around as it should be.
For no apparent reason the game crashed after the get weapon screen for Sand Man.
I don't have time to test this right now but that is a serious problem I need to work out. When exactly did it happen? During the fade transition? Before it? After it? Did the save game menu music start playing before it crashed? Perhaps it was just a fluke? I have suspicions that the sound engine caused it to crash, but that's just a wild guess.
Also, is Ghost Man's stage incomplete, or is there a special pathway to the boss? I ran into three different dead ends.
There are three paths to the boss and one is randomly chosen to have the boss room and the others just end up being dead ends. Did you get three dead ends on the same playthrough i.e. without getting a game over or dying? I might've messed up the random variable, but I dunno for sure.
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The Sand Man freeze occured with both Rock and the enemy on screen, but the special weapon display not having occurred yet. As for Ghost Man's stage; I died at the second dead end, then checked the third route after respawning, so I guess the location switched. Maybe only change the location upon game over, not death?
Bugs galore...
-The first skeleton Joe will 90% of the time have his bone projectile float aimlessly in one spot. Happens for both Rock and Bass.
-The flying skulls segment has an additional screen transition, which shouldn't be there; it causes the character to transition into a wall. Moonwalking upwards inside of the wall is the end result.
-With Bass, picking up the small health recovery at the respawn room where the first two paths recombine, froze the game twice.
-Bass only; getting hit into a horizontal screen transition, or doing other weird stuff like dash jumping into a vertical transition, will lock out Bass' jump ability. If the game is then paused and unpaused, jumping is still locked, but a dash jump will give Bass some form of free flight. Getting hit in this state locks up all his other movements.
-Rock can no longer slide through any slide segment.
-Grabbing ladders in Rush jet mode results in climbing ladders in mid air following the jet in all directions. If the jet is disabled then, you will be able to climb up and down without a ladder
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The Sand Man freeze occured with both Rock and the enemy on screen, but the special weapon display not having occurred yet. As for Ghost Man's stage; I died at the second dead end, then checked the third route after respawning, so I guess the location switched. Maybe only change the location upon game over, not death?
I tested the weapon get screen personally and it seemed to not lock up anymore after a bit of tweaking. Also I was accidentally resetting the boss room variable for Ghost Man's stage upon death when I meant for it to only reset on game over. This should be fixed now.
The first skeleton Joe will 90% of the time have his bone projectile float aimlessly in one spot. Happens for both Rock and Bass.
I think this is because the system that sets the platform movement for anything gravity based was flawed. This might've also been causing the items to float in the air instead of being effected by gravity. I changed the way this system works with a more reliable method, so hopefully this is all worked out.
The flying skulls segment has an additional screen transition, which shouldn't be there; it causes the character to transition into a wall. Moonwalking upwards inside of the wall is the end result.
I had to totally revamp the screen scrolling system to a more reliable method. The original system would spread values between a beginning scroll and end scroll object and test if their values were the same to determine whether they're connected. Now however, the system tests for an end scroll object closest to the right of the begin scroll object It should be break proof now, although I probably haven't thought of everything as per usual so be prepared for the scrolling to possibly break.
With Bass, picking up the small health recovery at the respawn room where the first two paths recombine, froze the game twice.
How much health did you have, if you can give me an estimate, and were you using a special weapon? I can't get the game to reproduce this bug. All it does for me is freezes the game until the health is entirely filled. I'll not release an update until I get this last problem figured out.
Bass only; getting hit into a horizontal screen transition, or doing other weird stuff like dash jumping into a vertical transition, will lock out Bass' jump ability. If the game is then paused and unpaused, jumping is still locked, but a dash jump will give Bass some form of free flight. Getting hit in this state locks up all his other movements.
I think this is fixed, I think it was because the game was setting his jump strength and other variables to 0 at death and then when he gets hurt it would call these variables for the jump strength and what not. I'm not sure though because I couldn't reliably get the bug to reproduce itself.
Rock can no longer slide through any slide segment.
An oversight, I accidentally took out his collision detection box for sliding. It should now be present again.
Grabbing ladders in Rush jet mode results in climbing ladders in mid air following the jet in all directions. If the jet is disabled then, you will be able to climb up and down without a ladder
Another oversight. I hadn't foreseen this situation so I did nothing to account for it. It also happened for Bass when he was using Treble Boost even though you can't see it until it wears off.
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How much health did you have, if you can give me an estimate, and were you using a special weapon? I can't get the game to reproduce this bug. All it does for me is freezes the game until the health is entirely filled. I'll not release an update until I get this last problem figured out.
Both times I was at about at about half health remaining, maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less. Health recovery didn't fill to max. Also, I approached the platform from the lower path, and double jumped up, no special weapons.
I think this is fixed, I think it was because the game was setting his jump strength and other variables to 0 at death and then when he gets hurt it would call these variables for the jump strength and what not. I'm not sure though because I couldn't reliably get the bug to reproduce itself.
There are two ways I've been able to produce the issue without fail, each in Ghost Man's stage:
1) On the first screen, stand beneath the second Skeleton Joe, facing the right. Let the first Skeleton Joe hit you with its projectile, and have the knockback push you into the second screen.
2) Dash into the second screen, and go down the ladder to the third screen by falling instead of climbing.
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I tried changing the way the energy refills pause the game so hopefully it's fixed now. I still couldn't get the bug to happen even after having the conditions you described. >w< Seems to be an elusive problem for me to recreate.
Annnd Bass doesn't seem to screw up now. Hopefully that's all the major bugs for now. Thanks for your help! :)
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That those fixed those bugs, yeah...
...But several other issues have popped up:
Tested with Bass:
-The Skull midboss doesn't aim at the player, instead it always shoots left and up.
-When Ghost Man first appears, the player cannot move at all until they're hit by an attack.
-Defeating Ghost Man, the cutscene doesn't trigger and you're stuck in the boss room.
Tested with Rock:
-Exiting a slide path on the right side sometimes leaves the player sligthly in the wall, forcing you upwards while moonwalking in either direction until you exit at the top.
-The green falling blocks in Sand Man's stage don't regenerate upon death.
-Dying and respawning causes the exact same glitch previously described for Forte; normal jumping is locked and free flight is enabled by slide jumping. Release the jump to fall down very very slowly. Get hit in mid-air to freeze the game, if an enemy doesn't kill you while you're stuck.
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Some of these problems occurred because there's so many things to fix I messed up other things scrambling to get these major problems fixed. lol
The Skull midboss doesn't aim at the player, instead it always shoots left and up.
I missed programming the skull miniboss to aim at Forte when Rockman isn't present.
When Ghost Man first appears, the player cannot move at all until they're hit by an attack.
I messed up the code for Forte once again when I was programming him as a separate entity.
Defeating Ghost Man, the cutscene doesn't trigger and you're stuck in the boss room.
I actually had programmed this in Saw Man's stage where it would happen, but I entirely forgot to copy the code to the other stages since it uses qualifiers and qualifiers can't be used in global code in MMF2.
Exiting a slide path on the right side sometimes leaves the player sligthly in the wall, forcing you upwards while moonwalking in either direction until you exit at the top.
I don't know why, but Rockman's top detector for slides was off by one pixel in relation to his main detector.
The green falling blocks in Sand Man's stage don't regenerate upon death.
I accidentally deleted the code to do this when I was fixing things up and didn't realize it.
Dying and respawning causes the exact same glitch previously described for Forte; normal jumping is locked and free flight is enabled by slide jumping. Release the jump to fall down very very slowly. Get hit in mid-air to freeze the game, if an enemy doesn't kill you while you're stuck.
For some reason, the variables that store the current gravity and jump strength values were placed after where the actual jump strength and gravity are set at the start of each new life which made them get set to 0. I don't know why this was, I guess I was just distracted at the time of doing it.
Anyway, I uploaded version 5.0.2 I think it is, that I am fairly certain fixed these things. I tested them all but as always I might have missed something.
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A friend of mine said the stage length and enemy density ratio needed to be lowered. Does anyone else think the game is too difficult?
Also, Cryo Man's stage is now available. So go play it and try to enjoy it and find bugs.
Edit: Sorry for the double post. I was going to click the double post button to combine the two, but it appears it doesn't show up when the second post is on a different page and I don't know how to combine posts.
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I find the difficulty to be just right. Hard at first, but perfectly doable once you know what you're doing. The only thing that could stand to be more streamlined is concept introduction.
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Difficulty is okay.
NOTES:
- After beating the new stage, on the stage select screen, he still appears to be there, not beaten.
- I think the weapons energy bar at the top left corner turned white. Well it was mostly white when I was playing it, I'm not sure what caused it.
- When an enemy dropped a small weapon energy capsule, it was red when I was using regular mega buster.
- The collapsing ceiling is a nice touch, but I don't think a timed base boss works for me. I take it if you make it completely collapse before defeating him, you're immediately dead? I beat him using his weakness so I don't know. Maybe have it collapse only so much instead of fully so you can still fight, but not get squashed? Just a thought.
Is it just me, or is some of the music, quite not Mega Man esque enough? True that it is NES style, but the style of the music just seems off to me. Can't quite put my finger on it.
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After beating the new stage, on the stage select screen, he still appears to be there, not beaten.
Yeah apparently I forgot to set the ice beam ammo after you beat Cryo Man so it doesn't count him as being beaten. As soon as I upload an update that will be fixed.
I think the weapons energy bar at the top left corner turned white. Well it was mostly white when I was playing it, I'm not sure what caused it.
I changed the way the game cycles the colors so hopefully that is fixed but as a side effect it also sped up the game slightly for slower computers when the color cycling occurs.
When an enemy dropped a small weapon energy capsule, it was red when I was using regular mega buster.
I've seen this bug before but I can't quite figure out how to work it out yet but thanks for pointing it out. I'm going to experiment a bit to try to reproduce it because I'm fed up with the color cycling messing up in every conceivable way.
The collapsing ceiling is a nice touch, but I don't think a timed base boss works for me. I take it if you make it completely collapse before defeating him, you're immediately dead? I beat him using his weakness so I don't know. Maybe have it collapse only so much instead of fully so you can still fight, but not get squashed? Just a thought.
Someone else has brought this up too with how the idea doesn't set well with them. Yeah it smashes you and kills you if the ceiling falls to the floor. I guess I could change it where the last two blocks don't get destroyed so you're just not able to jump over Cryo Man's charge attack.
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I've seen this bug before but I can't quite figure out how to work it out yet but thanks for pointing it out. I'm going to experiment a bit to try to reproduce it because I'm fed up with the color cycling messing up in every conceivable way.
Yea I think that was why StarsimsUniverse wanted me to try a GB style MegaMan. Since we wouldn't have to worry too much about color cycling. Though that wasn't the main reason, just one of them. Just throwing that out there.
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I think I got it to stop that color cycling glitch at any rate. I combined some things which caused the glitch to happen 100% of the time and then I changed the way it does the cycling here and there which prevented it from happening as far as I'm aware.
Posted on: May 02, 2012, 05:05:07 PM
I was thinking for Haste Man's level that near the start it splits off into two different paths, one only Mega Man can access and the other only Bass can access, to attempt to add more replay value to the game. These two paths would be pretty much their own individual stages. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Posted on: May 03, 2012, 08:32:03 AM
Is it just me, or is some of the music, quite not Mega Man esque enough? True that it is NES style, but the style of the music just seems off to me. Can't quite put my finger on it.
I was just reading a TXT file on how to achieve Mega Man style music. Do you think it's perhaps I didn't do some techniques properly like using power 5th chords? I would like to achieve the Mega Man NES style as closely as humanly possible with the songs.
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I would probably look at some fan made megaman music on youtube (like Phil's game), and compare with Capcom's old MM games, as well as MM9 and MM10, and get a feel on how to set up Mega Man style music. :)
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(http://s15.radikal.ru/i188/1205/c4/07a50bc70deb.png)
I can't jump from that Yoku Block.
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i637/1205/9e/3b96418d797a.png)
Secret passage that require Special Weapon?
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Oh that's weird, I missed a small piece of code that needed changed for that. The section with the sand wall isn't a secret passage, but I guess I could change it to one so that's a good idea.
Posted on: May 05, 2012, 04:23:57 AM
MMR is back in production after a sort of expected hiatus. We're nearing the end of producing it as there are only three more stages to make plus a secret stage and the game will be done aside from co-op mode needing to be finished and bugs that haven't been found or fixed yet.
You can now get it at its website specifically tailored to it. http://megamanrevolution.com/ (http://megamanrevolution.com/)
Posted on: March 07, 2013, 04:16:00 PM
Annnd the main single player game of MMR is now officially done. There might be some small changes here and there but overall the single player part of the project is done.
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Impressive job on the game. I started off with Blast Man and he was a tough one.
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Just finished it with Megaman. I raced against Zan to see who could get through it first on our first play through. I won. :P
We live streamed our play through to fifthindependant, so I won't go into our list of comments here, but overall its very well done.
I would recommend everyone plays it. It doesn't pull many punches though, so be prepared to die a lot. But, never an unfair challenge (save for one boss near the end) so it is very enjoyable.
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Hey, I just want to stop by here and say for all those who have, thanks for playing this game.
I spent a lot of time helping fifthindependent with testing and the like. It does seem I somehow managed to miss quite a few things despite dozens upon dozens of playthroughs, but I'm also going through all the feedback I've been able to find in hopes of helping improve the game further once FI over there is good to continue working on it! (It's ultimately his game, make no mistakes here, I'm just a helper.)
I very much enjoyed going through it many times, even through some of the rougher patches, and I hope whatever I was able to contribute helped make it that much better.
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Congrats on finishing the single player game.
As OBJECTION MAN asserted, I've had great fun playing through it. The difficulty is high, but never unfairly so. In fact, it fits the unlockable nature of the final stages to be as tough as they are.
Most of the bugs we found have already been reported to fifthindependant directly, but there's a few more I spotted in my recent Bass run:
-Rush can be used for Rock to access the Bass section of Haste Man's stage. Intentional?
-Haste Man's laser beams sometimes do not work in revisits using Bass.
-Rush Jet and Treble Boost can be used to scroll into the final stage cutscene. You'll be unable to move, but weapon energy will still deplete. If you advance the cutscene before landing, you can actually freeze the game because you did not obtain a certain plot mandatory upgrade.
-Sometimes Ghost Man will decide to leave the arena during a boss fight (happened to me during the Wily fortress stage), forcing a game reset.
-Something triggers the final final boss to pull a Ghost Man. He will exit the room, unable to be targetted, but he will still be able to mind control the player. If you then die and reset the fight, the glitch will repeat itself over and over.
BTW, which NES palette are you guys using? It looks like a close match to MM9/10s. Is it one of the common emulator palettes?
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Thanks for reporting the bugs. I will paste them into the extensive to do list you guys helped me make. ;) I think a friend of mine helped find the palette for me. I'm pretty sure it's the NTSC NES palette but I could be wrong.
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Just so you know, the image in my signature is the 100% accurate Rockman9/Rockman10 palette straight from the game data. It matches most emulator output and greatly resembles your own. The "actual" NTSC palette renders much darker on televisions, however. Nintendo's Virtual Console seems to mimic this. All in all, if your game allows for it, it may be somewhat interesting to play around with different variations.
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The only issue I've had so far is with the underwater [spoiler]Remir[/spoiler] stage. It's a bit more difficult than I think it should be, the Joe's do too much damage when they hit you and it takes too many shots to kill them. If it was more arcade-like, it would be really fun to play. But that's just my opinion.
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Alright, thanks for the feedback. I will add that to my to do list.
Just so you know, the image in my signature is the 100% accurate Rockman9/Rockman10 palette straight from the game data. It matches most emulator output and greatly resembles your own. The "actual" NTSC palette renders much darker on televisions, however. Nintendo's Virtual Console seems to mimic this. All in all, if your game allows for it, it may be somewhat interesting to play around with different variations.
I don't think I can easily edit the palette used because the palette image for the NES pixel shader is... really weird in structure and virtually impossible for me to edit.
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Yeah, from what I understand it limits the output colors to that of the given palette. However, if the source colors do not match, it picks the nearest match. This would effectively give wonky results, not exactly as intended. The sprite colors would also have to change.
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I got stuck in a part of Haste Man's stage after running out of rush jet power and dying. That sucked. There weren't really any farmable enemies; just one stop-light kind of guy and I didn't feel up to walking back and forth to kill him over and over until I got a weapon energy capsule.
Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure the drop rate for those and extra lives were switched - I've got 9 spare lives often as not, but don't really get to use any special weapons because energy is so sparse.
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I got stuck in a part of Haste Man's stage after running out of rush jet power and dying. That sucked. There weren't really any farmable enemies; just one stop-light kind of guy and I didn't feel up to walking back and forth to kill him over and over until I got a weapon energy capsule.
Did you perchance go into Bass' section of the stage?
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I got stuck in a part of Haste Man's stage after running out of rush jet power and dying. That sucked. There weren't really any farmable enemies; just one stop-light kind of guy and I didn't feel up to walking back and forth to kill him over and over until I got a weapon energy capsule.
Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure the drop rate for those and extra lives were switched - I've got 9 spare lives often as not, but don't really get to use any special weapons because energy is so sparse.
Echoing what Zan just asked, it does sound like you decided to Rush Coil up to the high route meant for Bass instead of sliding into the low route as Mega Man - this has been a problem for a while but it hasn't been addressed yet.
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I dunno? I haven't played as Bass, I just went through the level and thought a pit of spikes only crossable with rush jet meant tasty rewards.
Posted on: 2013-07-22, 19:18:16
Oh yeah, I wanted to mention that the powered-up charge shot picks up powerups, then wooshes off with them off the edge of the screen before returning empty-handed. Don't think that's supposed to happen.
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Sounds like it.
I think you need to go down, and not up, when exiting the first room.
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Hey. I just thought I'd mention, I'm doing one of my trademark bug/complaint posts for this game. I'm up to the fourth boss right now as Megaman. It would have been five, but something unexpected happened:
After I died to Hasteman and re-entered his boss chamber, Hasteman flew out of the boss room upon entering (since he completely missed the "land here" trigger point) and the game soft-locked and needed to be reset. His horizontal movement needs to be reset to 0 after a death to fix this, as he keeps his previous speed and direction after you die.
This is documented in the post I'm working on, but I feel this is critical enough to post by itself, for now. It literally prevent you from progressing. And it should not happen. It's an amateurish mistake to make, and this isn't the only place it happens, either. (Sandman's Sand Storm has a similar, less game-breaking glitch.)
Aside from that, enjoying the game so far!
Posted on: 2013-07-26, 16:29:10
Now I'm starting to get pissed. Stormman suffers the exact same glitch as Hasteman in that if you die while the boss is moving, it will start moving the second it spawns the next time around, and zip off-screen. And you know, at this point, I'm just going to assume that all bosses that physically move have this same glitch. I have no doubt whatsoever that Ghostman would do the same damn thing, given the chance. It's just most noticeable with Hasteman, since he can't sit still for more than a couple seconds.
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Yes, they all do this I believe. Seen someone hit that on the last boss even. It never recovers, not even
[spoiler=Last Boss Spoiler]after game over that I recall. Since the last boss has spike walls in his room which can be used to kill yourself.[/spoiler]
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Alrighty. I finally beat this game completely. Since I did one of these giga-posts for Mega Man Unlimited, I think it's only fair I make a massive bug/complaint report post for this game, as well. But just how buggy/whine-worthy is this game? Let's find out.
(As usual, spoilers abound. And I mean literal spoilers. Keep that in mind.)
07/29 Update: Zan has corrected a point of mine and brought up another bug I hadn't seen. I also found a few more noteworthy things while beating the game as Bass.
08/19 Update: Corrected myself on a supposed "glitch" with Bass.
[spoiler=General/Global Stuff]
Bugs
- *Critical* The game likes to lock up, seemingly for no good reason, a lot of the time, but especially when playing as Bass.
- *Clickteam bug?* It's impossible to use JoyToKey in this game, due to how the controller handling works. (JoyToKey ignores input when the game has focus.)
- On regular occasion, the game will read the wrong order from the Impulse Tracker module file and start a song further along than it should be.
- The Buster Boost part has the wrong description for Megaman. (1)
- *Intentional?* After the Wily stages become available, you're automatically sent to the save screen, followed by Dr. Light's Lab, regardless of what you want to do.
Complaints
- Some of the music isn't as nice as it could be. But some of it is absolutely fantastic! Why the inconsistency?
- Why is Dr. Light's Lab in California when it was located in New Mexico in Mega Man 8? (2)
- The wrong icons are used for a lot of items in Dr. Light's Lab.
- The blocked-out item graphics in Dr. Light's Lab could be more clear. Simply greying them out would work better than putting a big, hardly-visible cross through them, for example.
- A lot of the Robot Masters (and even a couple of the enemies) are blatantly sprite edits of commercial game material. Hasteman in particular is pretty obvious.
Notes
(1) The Buster Boost part says it makes the Mega Arm chase enemies. It does not. Instead, it allows the Mega Arm to grab on to items.
(2) To be fair, Dr. Light could have more than one lab.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Game Engine Stuff]
Bugs
- *Clickteam bug?* The entire game slows down when there's a lot of sprites on the screen, but not like the NES game did.
- *Clickteam bug?* The quick weapon switch buttons do not work. Period. Keyboard or game pad. ACE had this problem, as well, so it may be a Clickteam bug rather than something fifth did or didn't do.
- The title bar (and Task Bar button) reads "0" after you beat a boss, but returns to "Mega Man Revolution" when you hit the Get Weapon screen.
- *Intentional?* The "enemy loot table" seems to be about as broken as it was in Mega Man 5 -- Spare Bodies are quite plentiful. Maybe a bit too plentiful...
- *Critical* While fighting any Robot Master or fortress boss that has any sort of free movement mode (vertical or horizontal), if you die and the screen resets to the last checkpoint while they're moving, the boss will fly out of the arena the next time you enter, rendering the game un-winnable. This is an extremely amateurish mistake which can easily be corrected by setting a boss' movement speed to 0 on screen reset. Why this wasn't done in the seven revisions of the game so far is beyond me. (1)
- *Update* This may also happen during the boss refights in the fortress without having died, first. Presumably, this happens if the player hasn't died once after fighting the bosses the first time and re-fighting them later on. (Pointed out by Zan.)
- In stages where ladders are attached to ceilings, it's possible to wedge one's self into the ceiling. While it can be done accidentally, it's extremely hard to trigger unless you're actually trying to do it.
- If you manage to get scrolled out of the level boundaries and fall into the void, you never die, causing the game to become unwinnable.
- *Intentional?* While using Wild Sprint, you can't control your jump height at all.
- *Intentional?* You completely lose your invincibility if you enter the pause menu after being damaged.
- *Oversight* Neither Megaman nor Bass take a half-step when they land. They do in the commercial games.
- *Intentional?* Mystery Tanks can't be used at full Life and Weapon Energy. (2)
- A lot of times, enemies double-spawn -- two enemies spawn on top of each other where only one should be. This happens most often with the cannon enemies in Hasteman's stage, but happens with others, as well.
Complaints
I found nothing to complain about in the game engine.
Notes
(1) Strangely, Blastman seems to be immune to this glitch, despite having Flashman-style free movement.
(2) In Mega Man 5, 6, and 7, Mystery Tanks would turn any and every on-screen enemy and projectile into a 1up when used at completely full energy.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Megaman-Specific Stuff]
Bugs
- Equipping Rush or Tango seems to slow down the game... but using them slows it down even more!
- Megaman slides a little too far; he slides 70 pixels when he should be sliding 66 pixels. His jump height is spot on, however!
- Megaman refuses to charge his weapon if you hold the button down while exiting the weapons menu or after being hit. In the commercial games, he starts charging all over again.
- On rare occasion, the Mega Arm disappears completely from the screen. This is low-priority, however, as Megaman will get his arm back within five seconds regardless.
- On regular, the Grab Buster will throw the items it collects off the screen, making it impossible to collect them.
Complaints
- You can't summon Rush Marine on land.
- You can't summon Rush Jet at your height level -- he always lands on the nearest solid platform regardless of where you are.
- Giving people the broken Mega Man 3 Rush Jet seems a bit broken... but it's sort of balanced by how much Weapon Energy it gulps up.
- The way Beat works in this game is pretty horrible. You can only summon and un-summon him; you can't fire the Mega Buster while Beat is hanging around. This leaves you completely defenseless if Beat is busy.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Bass-Specific Stuff]
Bugs
- *Intentional?* Down + Jump does not make Bass dash. Down-Forward + Jump does.
- *Intentional?* Bass cannot jump while the player is holding Down-Forward, even if he's already in mid-dash.
- *Intentional?* Bass does not lose his dash-speed velocity when making a double-jump. (1)
- *Update*
*Intentional?* Bass regains his double-jump when jumping off a ladder. (1) Never mind, this behavior was in the commercial games as well. - Whenever Bass defeats a boss, the game slows to a crawl until the Get Weapon screen.
- The Bass Buster's locking mechanism takes precedence over dashing; you can't slide until the firing animation clears.
Complaints
- I am sorely missing having a one-button Dash ala Mega Man & Bass...
Notes
(1) This behavior is compared to his Mega Man & Bass/Mega Man 10 appearances.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Enemy Stuff]
Bugs
- On rare occasion, the Shield Attacker enemies break their fixed pattern and fly freely in whatever direction they were going. They can do this through terrain of any kind.
- *Intentional?* The Peterchy enemies don't act as expected in that they won't chase after the player when jumped over, as they do in Mega Man 3.
- *Intentional?* Sniper Joes and Hockey Joes are completely invincible (except to Iron Saw) while their shields are up. (1)
- *Intentional?* Skeleton Joes can be walked through harmlessly as their reassembling themselves. This should not be. (2)
Complaints
- Why didn't you redesign the Skeleton Joe, Peterchy, Hammer Joe, Mole, Hothead, Icicle Tecks, and Bomb Pottons a little? You changed the Sniper Joe and Met designs, after all.
- The crab enemies in the Extra Stage Prelude are highly ineffective... until the boss. Then they become an annoyance.
- Marine Joes have way too much health, considering they do all of nothing.
Notes
(1) This reflects Sniper Joe behavior in Mega Man 1/2, but later games made their shield have a separate hitbox.
(2) If you do this in Mega Man 4 or Mega Man 3/4 on the Game Boy, you take damage.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Cryoman Stage]
Bugs
- *Intentional?* Protoman shows up in this stage every single time you replay it.
- *Intentional?* Cryoman can't actually bring the roof down on you. He just aimlessly runs back and forth once it's down to a 2-block height.
Complaints
- What's the point of having Protoman show up in this single stage?
- The Hockey Joes are extremely annoying and hard to kill...
- Cryoman is the worst kind of gimmick boss. If you take too long to defeat him, he becomes nearly impossible to defeat and completely impossible to avoid.
- This is one of the rare bosses that Bass has a harder time with than Megaman, due to the nature of his attacks.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Sandman Stage]
Bugs
- If you happen to kill the giant snakey while trapped in a twister, you keep the twister physics (higher jump, inability to slide properly) until much later in the next area.
- Sandman's Sand Storm gimmick doesn't shut off if you die to him. That makes the start of the battle (after you've died once) harder than it needs to be.
Complaints
- There's an area just before the ladder to the night time surface where it looks like you could tunnel through with the right weapon. It's extremely misleading.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Sawman Stage]
Bugs
I did not find any bugs in this stage.
Complaints
- At the beginning? We've stopped playing Mega Man and started playing Super Meat Boy, I see... (No, that isn't a good thing.)
- There's a part near the beginning where there's a saw blade above and below a platform with an E-Tank on it. Flipping either of those saws horizontally would make it look nicer.
- What sets Sawman apart from Metalman, exactly? He's a little more bouncy? And his saw blades float? That's about it... Even his spread attack isn't all that interesting.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Hasteman Stage]
Bugs
I did not find any bugs in this stage.
Complaints
- *Semi-Critical* As it stands right now, it's impossible to prevent the player from going on Bass' path with Megaman. While Bass' path is possible with Megaman using Rush Jet, it's obvious the path was not intended to be done as such.
- That Force Beam gimmick is definitely annoying... Doable, but annoying.
- In the final Force Beam area, there's a hole which has a metal wall blocking off a Spare Body. If you fall in that hole as Megaman but don't have anything to destroy the wall, you have to suicide, as there's no way out.
- Why are there spikes at the very end of the stage? They don't seem to serve any real purpose, and they're the only spikes in the stage.
- Holy [tornado fang], Hasteman is fast! He's nearly unavoidable as Megaman!!
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Ghostman Stage]
Bugs
I did not find any bugs in this stage.
Complaints
- All the dead-ends in the stage are kind of annoying. They literally don't lead anywhere and most of them don't house extra items, so why have them?
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Stormman Stage]
Bugs
- *Intentional?* The cloud enemies Stormman spits out drop items, like the stage enemies.
Complaints
- Fighting Stormman with Megaman is absolute a nightmare. The storm cloud enemies are annoying as hell and, unlike Coldman's Mokumokumos in Mega Man & Bass, they actually do some serious harm. Fighting the boss with Bass, on the other hand, is too easy. (1)
Notes
(1) To be fair, Mega Man & Bass was like this on a couple of bosses, as well. Magicman comes to mind...
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Blastman Stage]
Bugs
I did not find any bugs in this stage.
Complaints
I did not find anything to complain about in this stage.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Pyreman Stage]
Bugs
- The last grabber Blader usually doesn't come after the player like it should, sometimes resulting in instant death rather than further progress.
Complaints
I did not find anything to complain about in this stage.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Wily Stage 1]
Bugs
- Quite frequently, the "mini-boss" of this stage sounds like its dropping spikes, but nothing falls from the ceiling.
Complaints
- I hate Sniper Joes, I hate Sniper Joes, I hate Sniper Joes! Though to be fair, Wild Sprint is a great way to avoid all of them.
- What's with the weird end boss for this level? It doesn't look like it even fits in with Mega Man stuff.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Wily Stage 2]
Bugs
- The start of this level suffers severe slowdown due to all the active sprites on-screen (the skulls).
- There's two sets of red spots on the floor that appear at the start of the Yellow Devil battle. They serve no purpose other than to mark a safe spot for the player to stand, so...
Complaints
- Oh, goodie. A drop into a spike maze right at the start of the level...
- I don't know why, but jumping in the dark with a swirling light really throws off my perception. Badly.
- This stage has one too many gimmicks to it.
- I hope you're happy. Between the spike maze and the dark section immediately following it, I lost all 9 of my lives. Plus one more that I earned in the stage. And then just for good measure, about four more on the next try!
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Wily Stage 3]
Bugs
I did not find any bugs in this stage.
Complaints
- The water physics in this stage were a little hit-and-miss. Some sections had movement physics, others didn't. Where was the consistency?
- I was expecting so much more from the Grim Reaper boss. Why wasn't he generating sickles? Why did he have only one easily avoidable attack?
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Wily Stage 4]
Bugs
- Weird things happen if you're on top of the Large Life Energy Capsule when it spawns after beating a Robot Master. (1)
- The Wily Machine Sin is utterly broken. You can literally sit in the right corner of the room and just pelt it with attacks, and it will never fight back or bounce-warp out of the room.
- During the normal ending, a counter starts playing on the title bar. I'm sure that's not supposed to be there.
Complaints
I did not find anything to complain about in this stage.
Notes
(1) When fighting Pyreman, I got a complete life regeneration because I was on top of the capsule while in a damaged pose (I assume?). While fighting Blastman, the game freaked out and tried to teleport me out of the room once every millisecond. The game continued as normal otherwise with no negative side-effects.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Extra Stage Prelude]
Bugs
I did not find any bugs in this stage.
Complaints
- Why isn't Mega Man using the Rush Marine? He's clearly not that far under the sea... Bass, on the other hand, doesn't have a marine vehicle, so that works.
- Until the boss, only one enemy did damage to me. And that was the Marine Joe. Which clung tenaciously to me and drained well over half my health by the time I was able to free myself.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Extra Stage 1]
Bugs
- All throughout the stage, the title bar fluctuated numbers -- up and down from 128/128.
- The entire stage moved at a crawl, for some reason. (Possibly because of the above?)
- *Intentional?* It's possible to lock yourself out of the falling block puzzle room by walking into the room, then doubling back toward the ladder. Doing so means you have to kill yourself in order to reset the blocks. (1)
- Mechanohand's hit box is extremely strange. You attack the arm, but the hand shows signs of damage...
- Mechanohand's movement speed doesn't reset back to its slow pace if you die after doing 14 hits of damage. (2)
Complaints
I did not find anything to complain about in this stage.
Notes
(1) If this is intentional, someone is a huge jerk.
(2) The boss speeds up after losing half its health. It should go back to its previous speed after you die.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Extra Stage 2]
Bugs
- I'm not sure if this happens in Sandman's stage as well, but it's possible to bypass the twister snakey boss by letting her hit you with a twister on the right side of the screen. I was also using Wild Sprint at the time, so that may have had something to do with it.
Complaints
- This stage. Oh my god, this stage. Why is it so long?? (To be fair, it has plenty of checkpoints. It's just really long.)
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Extra Stage 3]
Bugs
- The Amalgum can't actually hurt you via touch damage if you hide in the side of the room.
Complaints
- That checkered floor is tripping me out... @_@
- Those "hidden" caches throughout the level are way too generous.
- The end boss for this level was a complete waste of time. I was able to destroy him just after he changed phases once and only once. He needs a bit of reworking to be an effective boss.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Extra Stage 4]
Bugs
- If you happen to outrun the bad guy in the first section of the stage, he'll still appear later on, but only after he's scrolled himself off-screen. This causes him to appear out of thin air, in some places.
- *Intentional?* The boss' first form is surprisingly vulnerable to Wild Sprint and Sound Blaster (thanks, Zan!)... Not directly, of course, but still.
Complaints
I did not find anything to complain about in this stage.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Extra Stage 5]
Bugs
- *Intentional?* The Ion Blade turns Bass Megaman's colors.
Complaints
- What's the insentive to defeating the Dark Energy enemies when you can just Wild Sprint through them?
- I found a lot of other stuff to complain about in this stage, but nothing from a design standpoint. (See "Cutscene, Episode, Post-Game Stuff")
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Cutscene, Epilogue, Post-Game Stuff]
Bugs
- *Intentional?* After the Wily stages become available, Roll takes the place of Dr. Remir for no "apparent" reason.
- *Intentional?* After defeating Wily and having all the MEGAMANR plates, you aren't warped back to Dr. Light's Lab after the cutscene. However, if you go there yourself, there's an actual dialogue exchange.
- *Critical* The game stops functioning after Megaman's true ending plays, leaving you with a blank, black screen and the true ending tune playing in the background.
- *Critical* *Intentional?* The game closes itself after Bass' true ending plays. No crash, no notification, just complete and total closure.
Complaints
- When Roll takes Dr. Remir's place, she completely lacks animations of any sort, so Dr. Light looks like he's playing pong by himself.
- Why does Dr. Light play pong regardless of the intensity of a situation?
- It's really lazy how the dialogue is the same when playing as either character. It's even more lazy that the endings are so similar. (Why would Bass even think to take Wily to jail?)
- Does PureSabe know you stole his endgame gimmick?
- Why does the Evil Energy turn a Capcom game into a Konami game?
- Why are all the enemies invincible to everything except the Ion Blade?
- The whole plot where Dr. Remir is actually an alien seeking to undo the damage done to his planet by the Evil Energy seems kind of contrived and... well... stupid.
As a matter of fact, that being an integral part of the plot is a huge mistake in and of itself. If Duo detected even a trace amount of Evil Energy, he would jet back to Earth lickity-split and snuff it out. (See Mega Man 2: The Power Fighters and Mega Man Battle & Chase.) I withdraw this statement on the grounds that, as Zan pointed out, the Evil Energy in Mega Man 2 wasn't evil at all, but could be used for good or evil. (Pointed out by Zan (http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=6518.125;msg=392534).)
- If Protoman is able to kill Remir with a fully-charged Proto Strike, why can't Megaman or Bass even touch him?
[/spoiler]
At the end of the day, I genuinely feel this is a really good game. It was a lot of fun to play through, it was pretty balanced but kept you on your toes, and the music was pretty good, if not a little odd in places. The graphics could probably use a little tweaking here and there, and of course, bugs need to be squashed, but this was definitely worth the wait.
I look forward to whatever comes next, fifthindependent and company!
-
At the beginning? We've stopped playing Mega Man and started playing Super Meat Boy, I see... (No, that isn't a good thing.)
In my opinion, the beginning is pretty much the only place that saw setup would have been fair. You'd rather it kill you just before the boss door?
*Critical* While fighting any Robot Master or fortress boss that has any sort of free movement mode (vertical or horizontal), if you die and the screen resets to the last checkpoint while they're moving, the boss will fly out of the arena the next time you enter, rendering the game un-winnable. This is an extremely amateurish mistake which can easily be corrected by setting a boss' movement speed to 0 on screen reset. Why this wasn't done in the seven revisions of the game so far is beyond me. (1)
I've seen it happen on Ghost Man during the boss rematches, without any death preceding the fight.
Why are there spikes at the very end of the stage? They don't seem to serve any real purpose, and they're the only spikes in the stage.
Aren't there a ton of spikes in Bass' section?
*Intentional?* The boss' first form is surprisingly vulnerable to Wild Sprint... Not directly, of course, but still.
I'd personally suggest Blast Man's weapon.
[spoiler=MMR Plot]The whole plot where Dr. Remir is actually an alien seeking to undo the damage done to his planet by the Evil Energy seems kind of contrived and... well... stupid.
As a matter of fact, that being an integral part of the plot is a huge mistake in and of itself. If Duo detected even a trace amount of Evil Energy, he would jet back to Earth lickity-split and snuff it out. (See Mega Man 2: The Power Fighters and Mega Man Battle & Chase.)[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Power Fighters Plot]The energy found in Power Fighters was not Evil Energy, albeit it was another Alien Energy of Duo's species. This Alien Energy had the ability to take on either attributes of justice or evil, depending on environmental factors.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=MMR Plot]That said, since Dr. Remir is not of the same race as Duo, I consider it likely that his "Evil Energy" is not of the same make (thus avoiding Duo's radar). I would however have much preferred a wholly separate alien MacGuffin take center stage.[/spoiler]
-
In my opinion, the beginning is pretty much the only place that saw setup would have been fair. You'd rather it kill you just before the boss door?
Not really. But it's still pretty damn jarring, considering it's right there at the start.
I've seen it happen on Ghost Man during the boss rematches, without any death preceding the fight.
Noted. Thank you much!
Aren't there a ton of spikes in Bass' section?
Yes, but only four total in Megaman's section.
I'd personally suggest Blast Man's weapon.
That'd didn't seem to work as efficiently, but I was probably doing something wrong. :B
[Power Fighters/Revolution plot stuff]
Ah, you're right. This too has been noted. Thanks again!
-
Noted. Thank you much!
In off-chance that my recollection is off, I will try to replicate the glitch during the boss rematches. At the very least I don't recall being defeated by Ghost Man himself. Perhaps the bug carries over from some earlier time.
Also as Objection Man brought up, that glitch is so not fun during the final boss.
That'd didn't seem to work as efficiently, but I was probably doing something wrong. :B
What worked best for me is just to stay in the centre firing Blast Man's weapon in either direction. Since the explosions stay on screen, the switches will trigger as soon as they become available for collision detection. No jumping should be required.
-
Joseph, even though I haven't finished the game; I have to say that the plot seems a little interesting to me. It's not the same old thing, and that's all I'll say to prevent spoilers. At any rate, you didn't like the MMU or MMR plotline, so I'm curious as to what you would think is a good story. Being an author, I'm curious as to what your "saving grace" plot would be for the series. You can PM me, if you'd like.
I'm not trying to be harsh, you're great at what you do and notice more things about the MM series then I would have in 25 years of playing these games. I'm just curious as to what some great storyline ideas would be. That goes for anyone else. I'm curious as to what people can come up with. We could make a separate thread on it elsewhere on the site, if you want.
-
I really enjoy this game a lot!
It has some issues here and there but nothing awful.
My only real gripe so far is the lose charge stat but thats intentional and something capcom did as well.
Graphics are okay but fitting.
Music is hit or miss so far but what i like i really like.
Also thank you for the Mega Arm!!
Its nice to be able to charge again. :3
-
Rawrzaur plays Mega Man Revolution. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qyc5ff2Jvo&list=PLINqj6OhuqNCV3Oua19LDg3WBer5VL3de) Contains vulgarity and a lot of badmouthing of the game from some guy who clearly doesn't know better. Also contains the mandatory "This game sucks" and "Unlimited is better" smack-talk.
Thought this may be of interest, so I set up a playlist. Me, personally? I stopped watching 40 minutes in when they started naming the "good points" of the game. You know, things like how the game won't give you a virus, and how it won't run on some computers. And of course, how it won't kill your parents. Idiots. >_>
-
I actually ended up liking Megaman revolution a lot more than Mega Man unlimited. I mean a lot of ways Mega Man unlimited is a lot true to the Mega Man look feel and formula but at the same time doesn't really feel like a Megaman game. whereas Megaman revolution strays in many ways from the standard Mega Man tradition in look sound and many other aspects but for some reason when I'm playing the game it really feels like a megaman game to me. that is not to say it is without fault but in this case I feel like the good parts really overshadow the bad parts. And after beating it I can safely say I see myself playing this a couple of more times at least. I guess when you get to the bottom of things this game feels like It has that Mega Man charm to it.
-
Revolution is the underdog, so it's bound to get shat upon. But both games have their equal strengths and weaknesses. Someone hurry up and finish another game, so that these two won't be fighting against each other for a few more months. Which is rather childish I might add.
-
Hey guys, been a little silent on this front - it's been decided that we'll be addressing one of the biggest complaints with the game. That is, to say, the stage length.
I say "we" since there's been a handful of people who expressed interest in helping refine the game a bit more as fifthindependent works on a few other things on the side.
In any case, we're going to be trimming them down in length and generally compacting the level design. We'll be having less empty corridors and other dead screens - and maybe even make a few of those corridors that are still to hang around a bit more interesting.
Other things will have to change with it (some rebalancing for store prices and stuff like Wild Sprint), but anyway if you have any thoughts or suggestions about individual stages beyond those already posted, feel free to share away!
We'll be starting with the RM stages first (currently we're poking at Blast Man and Sand Man as of writing) and slowly progressing onwards from there.
The game's tile art is slowly getting updated and prettied up too, though there's nothing fully presentable yet.
Thanks again for everyone who's given the game a go!
-
Just wanted to chime in after beating the game that the stage length was not a problem for me. And this comes from a guy who likes very short stages in MM games like in the commercial games. Overly long stages was a slight concern in MM Rock Force and a real issue in MMU to compare with two other recent fan games.
Out of these three games MM Revolution was the one I enjoyed the most playing through. Level design was good and the physics worked. I also liked that the Mega Arm from Rockman World 5 makes charging the shot an actual decision since it gives it a downside. The stage graphics didn't bother me that much, but perhaps the enemy sprites could use some work. For example, the fish enemy is viewed straight from the side, when most MM enemies' sprites have a 45 degree angle to them so you see both their eyes.