RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => Shooting Star => Topic started by: Marnic on April 14, 2009, 06:46:15 PM
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I have come to once again fulfill my duties as a video gamer and criticize games instead of playing them.
Is Capcom master-trolling us or something? The whole series (starting from Megaman Battle Network, for whatever reason I consider these two one in a same) has started to get sort of repetitive.
I haven't tried the later games in this series in specific, just the first one, I heard 3 was supposed to be better and all, but c'mon seriously?
And what's this I'm hearing about a 4th installment? Capcom must fancy copying and pasting but why push aside other games for this? I want X9 or some crazy [parasitic bomb].
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Companies aren't bound to only make games you enjoy.
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I find your rant amusing because you [sonic slicer] about copying and pasting, then ask for X9.
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The "rumored" 4th installment discussion, is based on the "Rockman Boss Character Contest" (http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2009/01/want-to-enter-boss-design-contest-now.html), that already has a decided winner. (http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=1442.0)
Something everyone should remember, first and foremost, the Rockman franchise was (and still is) aimed for children.
That's why they focused on making the games appeal to them, being the fact that the series were cartoon style games, no blood or gore, with only mild violence. When the core fans of the series gets older, it's obvious that any newer versions of the franchise (EXE and Shooting Star) gets the big boot while trying to pull in new fans to Rockman in general.
Complaints isn't just for Rockman alone, it's pretty much every game or media out there. Everyone gets nit-picky because their favorite company doesn't make their favorite games or whatever. People have to understand that it's very difficult to make something that appeals to everyone and not lose a lot of money in the process.
When a side-scrolling game in the Rockman franchise comes out, or a new Rockman DASH, a big fear would be if the game would meet the core fans' expectations at all, or if they will nit-pick about every single detail over and over again until a sequel comes out that meets their expectations. The complaints will repeat themselves over and over again and it's not fun to hear them, especially not if the company hears them.
Because Rockman 9 was pretty much the best games to come out in like ever (and one of my personal favorites), Capcom don't want to make mistakes on this opportunity to create a sequel to something else, and make it as amazing as Rockman 9 was. These fine-tunings and observations and analysis from Rockman fans and inside-developers in the company takes time. Just wait. A new Rockman game as great as Rockman 9 (but for X and DASH series) will come out when there's less nagging about it and when the moment is right. ^^
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Companies aren't bound to only make games you enjoy.
I'm speaking on behalf of other people as well. But by all means, I am too just growing tired of seeing games like BN or SF being released when the fans are begging for a game from another series to be released instead of this. It's as if Capcom totally are ignoring the fans, which is disappointing.
I'm aware there are fans that like this series as well. All things considered, it's hard to express ones opinion on the internet, I'd be stupid to say there weren't fans of these games. I didn't mean to say that Capcom would stop making these games entierly but I'd love to see another side-scrolling Megaman game out there soon...even though I was sort of disappointed with the ZX series.
I find your rant amusing because you [sonic slicer] about copying and pasting, then ask for X9.
Oh man, that hurt. Well, I guess it's partly true. Although I didn't mean JUST X9, maybe it wasn't too obvious the way I said it.
Something everyone should remember, first and foremost, the Rockman franchise was (and still is) aimed for children.
That's why they focused on making the games appeal to them, being the fact that the series were cartoon style games, no blood or gore, with only mild violence. When the core fans of the series gets older, it's obvious that any newer versions of the franchise (EXE and Shooting Star) gets the big boot while trying to pull in new fans to Rockman in general.
Yeah...guess I didn't think of it that way before. Good point.
When a side-scrolling game in the Rockman franchise comes out, or a new Rockman DASH, a big fear would be if the game would meet the core fans' expectations at all, or if they will nit-pick about every single detail over and over again until a sequel comes out that meets their expectations. The complaints will repeat themselves over and over again and it's not fun to hear them, especially not if the company hears them.
Oh man, did I just mention my opinon ZX series? I see truth in your words, oh wise one.
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Besides all of that, repetitive?
Man, you're talking about the way wrong series. Mega Man games are all about bringing you the good stuff again, with only one or two well-thought out changes in pace (...okay, aside from Rush Cycle and the Ride Chasers).
So I can only guess here that one might think that Capcom is not choosing the right tweaks to make to the series.
And, to an extent, that's true, albeit subjective, so I can really only base this on very recent general sales and feedback the retail part of the industry has generated:
MM9 was by all accounts great, but many people are incompatible with the digital-buying format. A nitpick, really.
MMZ2 was okay, 3 did very well, then 4 was mediocre.
MMZX sells very well by all accounts, whereas ZXA is only liked by a very small niche.
MMEXE 1-3 were good, 4 and 5 are dogs, but 6 is a bit harder to find and had better pacing through gameplay tweaks such as the easily accessible Crosses.
MMSF 1 and 2 were a bit low, and 3 was to an extent, but fans did like the gameplay tweaks.
So with SF3 and MM9 as our latest points of reference compared to ZXA and SF2, I'm very, very optimistic about the next Mega Man game.
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Thing is, these games do sell rather well, but it's not necessarily the older fans of the series that buy them (or, in this case, ask for the game to be bought for them). As Vixy said, Rockman is for the children first and foremost, so they'll make games based upon what is popular for the kids. Classic sidescrolling games... just isn't that popular in the overall scheme of things nowadays, as heart wrenching as it is for me to admit. If people don't see something unique about the game, they probably won't buy it. Hell, if they do see something somewhat unique, they dismiss it as a gimmick and focus on how it's the same in most other aspects (ZXA, for example). There's just no pleasing people that are so entrenched in a certain mindset, so why bother with them when they can focus on a whole new generation that's generally more accepting and willing to buy the "copy&paste" games they toss out.
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Besides all of that, repetitive?
I'm cornered, I'm sorry, I can't find an argument to beat that. Strangely enough, I saw it coming the moment I wrote the opening post.
I guess I'm just much more for another more action-filled title than another Megaman RPG, huh.
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I'm cornered, I'm sorry, I can't find an argument to beat that. Strangely enough, I saw it coming the moment I wrote the opening post.
I guess I'm just much more for another more action-filled title than another Megaman RPG, huh.
That goes for most of us. Don't worry, a lot of us understand fully how you feel. I, for one, don't see the appeal in BN and SF, and don't particularly enjoy them. I do see how it does appeal to other people though, and that most of these said people are of a newer generation. Just the way it works, I suppose.
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I'm speaking on behalf of other people as well. But by all means, I am too just growing tired of seeing games like BN or SF being released when the fans are begging for a game from another series to be released instead of this. It's as if Capcom totally are ignoring the fans, which is disappointing.
I'm aware there are fans that like this series as well.
But they're still making sidescrolling games, like Megaman 9. Do you want them to stop making any other types of games, or what?
The world doesn't revolve around you, dude. :/
Also seriously can you knock the fake altruism off? You want more sidescrollers because you like them. You don't really care about fan demand, do you?
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But they're still making sidescrolling games, like Megaman 9. Do you want them to stop making any other types of games, or what?
The world doesn't revolve around you, dude. :/
Also seriously can you knock the fake altruism off? You want more sidescrollers because you like them. You don't really care about fan demand, do you?
Why do I have a feeling you only read what you wanted to read?
You got it all wrong, I even said I didn't want them to stop making the games, I just wanted them to push aside other series for it.
I never said other people's opinions were important to those of my own but just because of that I'm not going to ignore em, I simply said that many share the same opinions as I do. And seeing as other fans than I want to see another sidescroller, wouldn't it be just as fair for us to get that as it is for the ones who want the RPGs to get theirs?
Some of us probably feel left out because of it.
I'd love it if you could read more of my post instead of just jumping to quick conclusions just after seeing 2 words. You didn't even quote the part where I said I didn't want them to stop making games.
Haha, oh well.
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I'm sure the SF fans would feel left out if they cancelled SF4 in order to make more X games, which seems to be what you want, judging from your first post.
It's a shame they don't have some mystical figurehead to speak for them like sidescrolling fans do in you.
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I'm sure the SF fans would feel left out if they cancelled SF4 in order to make more X games, which seems to be what you want, judging from your first post.
It's a shame they don't have some mystical figurehead to speak for them like sidescrolling fans do in you.
Again, I never told them to cancel it. Sorry if I made you you got the wrong idea.
I still love RPGs though.
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So, you brought it up... why? Was it just to illustrate how unfair it is that they're possibly getting a fourth game, while X fans have to make do with eight, or are you upset that they've had two games since the last sidescrolling one, instead of keeping a proper 1:1 ratio, or, well, what? Talk to me dude.
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There's just no pleasing people that are so entrenched in a certain mindset, so why bother with them when they can focus on a whole new generation that's generally more accepting and willing to buy the "copy&paste" games they toss out.
Because then you become Sonic Team.
I'm cornered, I'm sorry, I can't find an argument to beat that. Strangely enough, I saw it coming the moment I wrote the opening post.
I guess I'm just much more for another more action-filled title than another Megaman RPG, huh.
I know, and understand. I'd like to see a new Mega Man X game, CM2, X9, Xtreme 3, whatever.
All I'm saying is, you knew someone was going to bring up that Mega Man games have forever been repetitive, even during Classic.
I think that's why Mario does so well, and people are looking forward to Explodemon.
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Well, not counting "all" cellphone games (because it's hard to find all of them), we have...
31 Classics (Six are Complete Works, Two are Remakes, Two are Collections) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=original)
13 X's (One is a Remake, One is a Collection) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=x)
4 Zero's (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=zero)
2 ZX's (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=zx)
4 DASH's (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=dash)
16 EXE's (One is a Re-release, Five exists in 2 versions) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=exe)
3 Shooting Stars (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=ryusei)
That's a lot. ^^
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So, you brought it up... why? Was it just to illustrate how unfair it is that they're possibly getting a fourth game, while X fans have to make do with eight, or are you upset that they've had two games since the last sidescrolling one, instead of keeping a proper 1:1 ratio, or, well, what? Talk to me dude.
No, you pretty much got it right there. I'm trying to say that I understand how the other fans feel as well, being from either side. I was just in shock because of the rumour.
Be honest with me man, do you think it's fair that the BN/SF fans get a game each year and we have to wait about a decade before we can get something new for us?
I'm glad they're taking their time working on the actual games making it as good as possible and all, if they're working on it at all. I'm pretty sure they have their reasons of not doing it as well. I just can't feel enough megaman games other than those RPGs in the air.
Try not to get offended by it though, this could all be just my opinion. Not only X9 how about something else everybody else have been waiting for, like Megaman Legends 3, or if you'd like another RPG, another Command Mission might be fun.
Well, not counting "all" cellphone games (because it's hard to find all of them), we have...
31 Classics (Six are Complete Works, Two are Remakes, Two are Collections) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=original)
13 X's (One is a Remake, One is a Collection) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=x)
4 Zero's (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=zero)
2 ZX's (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=zx)
4 DASH's (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=dash)
16 EXE's (One is a Re-release, Five exists in 2 versions) (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=exe)
3 Shooting Stars (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=ryusei)
That's a lot. ^^
Although...are remakes and ports actually considered as new experience? Re-newed, I guess, but not entierly new.
There are those Legends cellphone games though. But who'd seriously go to japan only to play games on a cellphone?
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Nerds are, for the most part, impossible to please. No matter what companies give you, it'll never be enough.
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Thank you, PB. Just the post I waited for.
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Nerds are, for the most part, impossible to please. No matter what companies give you, it'll never be enough.
I think we can extend that to all of humanity, but that's just my opinion.
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Nerds are, for the most part, impossible to please. No matter what companies give you, it'll never be enough.
Compliments won't get you anywhere missy. *wink*
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Because then you become Sonic Team.
Was just giving the company's point of view, never said it always led to good games :P
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No, you pretty much got it right there. I'm trying to say that I understand how the other fans feel as well, being from either side. I was just in shock because of the rumour.
Be honest with me man, do you think it's fair that the BN/SF fans get a game each year and we have to wait about a decade before we can get something new for us?
What? There was like a year between each Zero/ZX game. How are you turning a year into a decade?
And fair? Why should I care if it's fair or not? I'm not some child that'll complain if someone other than myself experiences good fortune. Are, are you?
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It'll always be the case.
MM9
-"Why doesn't he slide or have the Charge Shot?"
-"Why is it 8-Bit?"
-"Why is it only downloadable?"
-"Why doesn't it connect to the X series?"
Soon, with MMX9
-"Why can't you play as the Navigators again?"
-"Another new character? Come the [tornado fang] on!"
-"The story sucks."
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Soon, with MMX9
-"Why can't you play as the Navigators again?"
-"Another new character? Come the [tornado fang] on!"
-"The story sucks."
Yea. ^^ (http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=1318.0) You're right there. (http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=1337.0)
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-"Another new character? Come the [tornado fang] on!"
This is justified unless that new character is the villain.
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Nerds are, for the most part, impossible to please. No matter what companies give you, it'll never be enough.
Hence why it's so much easier for the companies to aim for the younger generation, they are somewhat less inclined to [sonic slicer] at first.
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That, and they are less likely to send death threaths and the like :P
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This is justified unless that new character is the villain.
As long as I enjoying playing her, I don't mind! 8D
Hence why it's so much easier for the companies to aim for the younger generation, they are somewhat less inclined to [sonic slicer] at first.
Bingo! *pulls out Bingo card*
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What? There was like a year between each Zero/ZX game. How are you turning a year into a decade?
And fair? Why should I care if it's fair or not? I'm not some child that'll complain if someone other than myself experiences good fortune. Are, are you?
If you want to hear me say that I'm wrong and you're right, then fine. Geez, I guess you aslo want to hear I can't defend my own arguments either. Take it easy, I'm not trying to sound like a douche or anything.It'll always be the case.
MM9
-"Why doesn't he slide or have the Charge Shot?"
-"Why is it 8-Bit?"
-"Why is it only downloadable?"
-"Why doesn't it connect to the X series?"
Soon, with MMX9
-"Why can't you play as the Navigators again?"
-"Another new character? Come the [tornado fang] on!"
-"The story sucks."
Haha, can't say I wasn't one of those. At least when it comes to the 8-bit part, but I just thought it feelt lazy that's all. It gave it a nice atmosphere.
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If you want to hear me say that I'm wrong and you're right, then fine. Geez, I guess you aslo want to hear I can't defend my own arguments either.
Well I'd um I'd prefer it if you'd answer my questions but okay! I'll take what I can get I guess.
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Well I'd um I'd prefer it if you'd answer my questions but okay! I'll take what I can get I guess.
Exaclty how didn't I answer your question? Haven't I been trying to do so during these past 4 posts?
Make the question simple and I'll give you a simple answer, how does that sound?
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Question the first!
What? There was like a year between each Zero/ZX game. How are you turning a year into a decade?
Question the second!
And fair? Why should I care if it's fair or not? I'm not some child that'll complain if someone other than myself experiences good fortune. Are, are you?
The first one is the only one I'm really interested in hearing your answer to, if we're going to be honest.
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At least the Zero series ended after 4 games. They quit entierly with ZX...or at least so it seems. The BN/SF series have been considered medicore by a lot of fans, they knew when to quit with these games at least while BN/SF keep struggeling forward (it'd be akward if they did release another ZX after I said this though, haha)
I might've exaggerated a little bit but I wasn't being literal with Capcom taking a decade for them to finish a game off. But they do seem to release more BN/SF games than any other games though. And that sort of feels as the other games are being delayed further.
I'm not going to lie to you, the X games were releasing pretty fast one after another as well, every 2nd year or so they released a new X game. And I agree with you on the Zero thing too. I'm not going to be entierly partial when it comes to this matter, I never was to begin with, actually...I was wonder why they'd keep this up instead of trying to balance it out a little by adding some more of that oldschool megaman we love so much.
And to answer your other question, by god, did you read any of my other messages...AT ALL? No, I'm not, in fact I'm only asking why the fortune isn't shared. I don't mind if somebody gets some.
I have a feeling about what I said about BN/SF being medicore is going to hit me straight in the face, but that's what I've heard and experienced.
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Well, pretty much the avatar says that you may want a Disgea-type Megaman game (shows that you aren't just a Megaman fan), but it may be too hard for the kiddies. Art contests were origionally geared for kids, then soon after fans of all ages joined on the bandwagon for the laugh.
Then as the RPG fetish hit, they craved an RPG type game right after Final Fantasy 7 was a hit. In fact, the RPG crave still goes on, alongside shooters.
What Capcom's doing is just to keep up with the times, like everyone else said.
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Yeah, I got it by now. I wasn't thinking about if before, though. Thanks for answering my question.
I just had to finish explaining everything to Tickle Buffalo before I could finally leave it to be.
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And to answer your other question, by god, did you read any of my other messages...AT ALL? No, I'm not, in fact I'm only asking why the fortune isn't shared. I don't mind if somebody gets some.
But there have been far far far far more sidescrolling games than RPG ones. You've had more than your fair share of the fortune, haven't you? The RPG games deserve more focus, if anything, if we're in the mood for sharing fortune.
Aaaaaanyway I'm bored of this thread so I'm gonna do something else now. Closing statements: Yes they're gonna make games you don't enjoy, no you don't have a right to complain about that. Instead, rejoice, for although you may not enjoy them, games are being made which will please others! Your selfless acceptance of this will surely lead to great karmic rewards in your future!
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What I find annoying is that regardless of sales, Capcom is going to systematically ignore your preferences in favor of the Japanese market. They are too centered on developing games for Japan
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But there have been far far far far more sidescrolling games than RPG ones. You've had more than your fair share of the fortune, haven't you? The RPG games deserve more focus, if anything, if we're in the mood for sharing fortune.
Aaaaaanyway I'm bored of this thread so I'm gonna do something else now. Closing statements: Yes they're gonna make games you don't enjoy, no you don't have a right to complain about that. Instead, rejoice, for although you may not enjoy them, games are being made which will please others! Your selfless acceptance of this will surely lead to great karmic rewards in your future!
Well, might as well just say it one last time...I never really did bother with them making their games, I just thought it would be fun if there could be another non-RPG Megaman game released soon.
I don't know what the problem is, either I didn't say it right in all of those messages or you sort of misinterpert it.
I have no intentions of sounding like a badguy, hope that makes things clearer for you.
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You know, I'll never understand why people think certain Inti games are better or worse than others. From Zero to ZXA, Inti has always delivered us quality games with the same dedication. They've had the engine down from the very beginning and continue to polish up and innovate their games with every sequel.
Surely there are differences between games, but on a matter of quality, the difference is so little, it should be about which one you like more than the other, but people must apparently think in black and whites. Apparently one game rocks the house, and the game that is exactly like it with some differences is apparently the worst ever....
6 quality games by Inti a row.. their seventh release is a quality game that invokes immense nostalgia and suddenly people proclaim we haven't had any good games in forever?
I just have to ask, are people even playing these games right? Boot them up, kick ass, kick some more ass. You don't have to let all the extra stuff get in the way of that. All of these games offer that same classic experience.
Meh, I guess Inti should start releasing their games with a classic mode that brings it all back to basics...
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It depends what people you ask. I personally love every single one of Inti's games. ^o^
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My only complaint with the Star Force series, and the battle network ones as well, is the Pokemon-route of hidden cards/chips. Annoying else find it really annoying that there's some sort of hidden, super power card/chip and you have to go to an event in order to get it, and because the series isn't as popular as Pokemon, the events are pretty much just limited to Japan until hell and forever passes by for CoA to do something about it in the US?
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I have come to once again fulfill my duties as a video gamer and criticize games instead of playing them.
Is Capcom master-trolling us or something? The whole series (starting from Megaman Battle Network, for whatever reason I consider these two one in a same) has started to get sort of repetitive.
I haven't tried the later games in this series in specific, just the first one, I heard 3 was supposed to be better and all, but c'mon seriously?
And what's this I'm hearing about a 4th installment? Capcom must fancy copying and pasting but why push aside other games for this? I want X9 or some crazy [parasitic bomb].
Repetitiveness is something that Capcom has struggled with. From old Mega Man games to Resident Evil, they have always been criticized for it. A fourth installment of Star Force is completely unlikely. They have shut down all the Star Force related media, and are releasing a complete works art book for the series. If you are talking about the boss design, that contest was made for you to make a boss design for any Mega Man game. The person who created the picture probably had a Star Force character in mind. Capcom is going to redesign it to fit whatever game it wants to be for. It could end up as a Mega Man Train Simulator (RockTracks) for all we know. The Star Force Mega Man in the background was because the same page was also showing Mega Man Star Force 3 news.
Here is something else I am confused about; why do you think that the EXE/SF games are delaying other Mega Man games? This is like accusing Pokemon of delaying a new Zelda. Capcom has different production studios. The studio that makes the X series has nothing to do with EXE and probably Star Force. EXE was made by the studio that made Mega Man Legends, which is why there are so many similarities and references. That didn't really delay Mega Man Legends 3, the sales of the Legends series is what delayed it. If it wasn't EXE it would be some other project. Going by your theory, wouldn't the Zero and ZX series delayed Mega Man 9 because Inti Creates made all of them?
I could understand not liking EXE/SF, but you shouldn't dump all of the blame on them just because you don't like them.
What I find annoying is that regardless of sales, Capcom is going to systematically ignore your preferences in favor of the Japanese market. They are too centered on developing games for Japan
Not true. They have been working on games targeted at the western market more recently. Dead Rising is an example. First aimed or at least did well with the western market, and with Dead Rising 2 they are collaborating with a western developer.
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Well, Inti also made the Battle Network game Battle Chip Challenge, that makes (Z1-4, ZX & ZXA, MM9) seven games. If these guys ever go out on thier own, they may need a mascot, or they could be with a special department in Capcom until thier budget gets better.
A Mega Man with a true RPG system may be in the works (Time = A spell in most JRPGs). Depending if Inti or DASH's department decides to work on this title (Alpha Dream may be backstabbing Nintendo because it is known for the Mario & Luigi RPG series).
As for the repetitiveness factor, I think it was the gameplay back then that mattered, not the plot. Now's the reverse. People play for the plot, for those folks, play Final Fantasy or some generic JRPG dammit!
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My only complaint with the Star Force series, and the battle network ones as well, is the Pokemon-route of hidden cards/chips. Annoying else find it really annoying that there's some sort of hidden, super power card/chip and you have to go to an event in order to get it, and because the series isn't as popular as Pokemon, the events are pretty much just limited to Japan until hell and forever passes by for CoA to do something about it in the US?
Stop complaining, make the effort to find the extra software/hardware to get these things (BNEXE: Card e-Reader(+), appropriate e-Reader cards, extra GBA if neccessary, AR; SSR/SF: JP-region Wii, US Download Station, AR)
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Stop complaining, make the effort to find the extra software/hardware to get these things (BNEXE: Card e-Reader(+), appropriate e-Reader cards, extra GBA if neccessary, AR; SSR/SF: JP-region Wii, US Download Station, AR)
Right, because all that stuff is readily available or announced. I didn't know that there were hidden cards/chips until BN5, and that was because the guide book I had actually mentioned them. Not to mention there's hardly anything said about obtaining the actual hidden cards for SF1 OR 2 in a legit manner. There WAS some sort of download station, but god knows by the time people found out, it was too late. Capcom isn't like Nintendo in that they announce this stuff well ahead of time, nor are the hidden cards THAT epic to warrant a trip to wherever the hell it is or if they're even participating in it. Pokemon's almost guaranteed to have it's events take place because of how freakin' popular it is. Not every place is going to carry the stuff for Star Force. As for using AR, that's just a moot point since you can't say "I have an official and legit copy". Sometime's the codes are hard as hell to find in the first place, I think only the KingGranduer and LeMu card codes are only on a few forum posts on a different website. If not now, it was back then, but enough time to have passed to warrant a "What the hell is taking them so long?!" for the codes.