Author Topic: why don't very many people like starforce?  (Read 4321 times)

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Offline b17fortress

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why don't very many people like starforce?
« on: October 07, 2013, 06:39:58 AM »
hey guys i'm a big fan of the starforce series but i noticed that it isn't nearly as popular as mmbn was so sometimes i wonder why that is so. i loved the starforce series and i think it has a great cast of characters that are just as good as the mmbn series not to mention a better story line so i don't understand why so few people like it, i wish it sold as well as mmbn so that more games would be made for it....but we only got 3 and that's it. just wondering why there's so little love for the starforce series and why didn't it do as well as mmbn?

Offline Sakura Leic

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2013, 06:42:18 AM »
Because Star Force 2 sucked.

Offline b17fortress

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2013, 07:00:35 AM »
well that one i can agree on. SF2 was all about the MU stuff that i find hard to relate to, the armors weren't very good either but ending the series at starforce 3 was just abit too quick, i thought they would at least make another game after 3. i wanted to see more of sonia and geo and i wish they'd explain more on how Lan from mmbn invented the brotherband system and even better if his great great grandson would show up and have a small role in the story. that would be nice.

Offline Soultrigger

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2013, 07:01:32 AM »
Because Star Force 2 sucked.
Haha, one of my most hated Mega Man games.

To be quite honest, a thing I generally don't like about Battle Network and Star Force is that they all feel the same. Ironically, I only played BN3 Blue and BN6 Gregar, while I played the entire SF trilogy (Pegasus, Shinobi, Black Ace).

My memory is somewhat foggy because I haven't played any of them in a long time, but of all those games, the only one I <i>really</i> enjoyed was BN3, my first one. The rest of the games follow the exact same formula, which makes for some very trite gameplay, mainly due to use of random encounters and predictable story chapters.

Personally, I would say for Star Force, it was both an issue of not pushing the formula forward/in new directions, while also feeling like a step backwards in the strategic department (even SF3, considered the best one in the series, just seems entirely based on luck depending on how your cards line up).

Also, going from the Internet to radio waves wasn't the best idea for establishing the world setting. I wouldn't mind them abandoning references to the robot timeline if their own universe was actually interesting (i.e. compensated), but the lack of say X series parallel just made the series uninteresting.

EDIT: I'm assuming we're only talking about main entries. I also played Network Transmission and BCC. NT was really good. BCC on the other hand...


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Offline Sakura Leic

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2013, 07:04:36 AM »
Admittedly Star Force 3 is probably one of my favorite game in the BN and Star Force series but it came too late and people gave up after 2.

Offline Police Girl

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2013, 07:24:09 AM »
Admittedly Star Force 3 is probably one of my favorite game in the BN and Star Force series but it came too late and people gave up after 2.

I'd honestly love to know why Starforce 2 is so despised.

I mean, I hate the game myself (some of the music in it is great, but other than that... getting that as my first DS game wasn't too nice either), But I'd love to know other people's reasons why.

Offline Sakura Leic

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 07:26:46 AM »
Well I haven't played it myself but I hated the story for not only having absolutely nothing to do with space, which is the fault of both series episodic nature, but backwards character development for Geo, Sonia, and Luna.

For gameplay reasons you should ask someone else.

Offline Police Girl

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2013, 07:46:44 AM »
Hmm...

Well I hated the game for having an absurd encounter rate, that first boss guy, the Phantom whatever, wouldn't stop [tornado fang]ing showing up.

Mu was boring, We didn't need a character that was Bass/Chaud mixed into one either. Traveling to Wazzup or the lake with the sea monster (I forget the name) was a pain in the ass since you had to go through the unreasonably large and difficult encounter ridden Sky Wave. And of course like all games in the Battle Network/Star Force games they had the problem of not letting you escape most of the time from encounters. You should always be able to escape in these games, there's no [tornado fang]ing leveling up so I don't really feel enticed to fight every single enemy that decides he wants to fight.

The Bermuda Triangle was rather unnecessary, large, and for some reason the only way to Mu was through there.

Offline Just fuck my shit up

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2013, 10:10:41 AM »
Uh huh. I recall there being a few similar questions along the lines of "why don't people like" or "why do people"... I'm a little on edge here.

At any rate, I got through about 6 hours of the first Starforce and liked it. Then I lost it. Haven't bothered since.

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Offline Arikado

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2013, 10:14:18 AM »
Star Force 3 was really the only one I liked, and bothered to finish. And yeah, 2 was utter [parasitic bomb].

Offline Reaperoid

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2013, 10:45:14 AM »
I liked 2 enough to completely finish both sides, it wasn't horrible.
3 is the best, though Omega boss fights urghhhhhhh
I guess all I can really say is it isn't exactly what I'd expect out of a $4.4M game

It doesn't even have mouth animations

Offline Sakura Leic

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2013, 04:51:24 PM »
I liked 2 enough to completely finish both sides, it wasn't horrible.
3 is the best, though Omega boss fights urghhhhhhh
*at the beginning of the game*

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Offline Flame

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2013, 04:57:51 PM »
Let's be honest. Star Force's Mega Man's character design sucks balls. It's utterly retarded and I'm not TERRIBLY fond of it.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Sakura Leic

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2013, 05:00:14 PM »
Geo will always be pineapple head to me...

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2013, 08:57:14 PM »
Only Star Force game I played was 3, and I loved it!  I guess if Star Force 2 is as bad as eveyone makes it out to be, then I can see the series suffering for it.  It's like how BN4 severely wounded the credibility of the Battle Network series.

Let's be honest. Star Force's Mega Man's character design sucks balls. It's utterly retarded and I'm not TERRIBLY fond of it.

Out of all the franchise iterations, I've always felt like Star Force MM looked the least Megaman-ish.  The beast design isn't terrible, it just doesn't feel like Megaman.
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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2013, 09:04:21 PM »
And everyone who is a kid has weird ass clothes too.

Offline Just fuck my shit up

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2013, 09:34:36 PM »
And everyone who is a kid has weird ass clothes too.

That's just japanese games in general.

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Offline Arikado

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2013, 09:49:23 PM »
Out of all the franchise iterations, I've always felt like Star Force MM looked the least Megaman-ish.  The beast design isn't terrible, it just doesn't feel like Megaman.
Yeah, at least in SF3 he has an actual arm cannon.

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2013, 10:02:23 PM »
Second one was [parasitic bomb], third I enjoyed, but never fully beat because [tornado fang]ing LOST SAVE GAMES.
And I even tried like two or three times.

[tornado fang]ing WHATEVER

Offline Soultrigger

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2013, 08:56:32 AM »
Let's be honest. Star Force's Mega Man's character design sucks balls. It's utterly retarded and I'm not TERRIBLY fond of it.

This is such terrible design:
(click to show/hide)

Black Ace, Red Joker, and the rest of the Noise forms were actually pretty cool. Heck, I actually enjoyed the card deck theme of SF3.
SF1 had constellations, which was okay but then was on and off throughout the series.
SF2? Well, there's the Yeti and Plesio for cryptids. Then there's...Phantom, a condor, Hollow, a goat (from submission contest)... idk... >_>

Concerning another thing about BN vs SF: in BN, you were a kid in a futuristic setting that centers around Net Navis. There was this duality of the real world along with the Internet world that made for a really imaginative, interesting, and believable universe. You had operators customizing and commanding their Navis. You had Navis fighting viruses to fix appliances and machines. You had cyber criminals that mirrored those of the real world. Even though it was targeted towards kids, the universe just worked.

In SF, you're a kid superhero who has the ability to go between these worlds. While it's "the same thing" on the surface, it really, really doesn't feel that way. You see a lot of Navis throughout the radio world, but none of them are important. Battle Cards make very little sense: Navis aren't a big thing, and only those that can EM Wave Change (read: you) can use them. Sooo, wha?  o~O The only people of importance are those that can EM Wave Change, which one basically necessitates a secret identity, and two sometimes makes very little sense (Cancer, Kung-Foo Kid, etc.). Bottomline, the universe didn't make sense, a lot of stuff was borrowed haphazardly from BN with little thought into making them work. I mean, "an ancient civilization with futuristic technology" that somehow existed between BN and SF? Huh?!


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Offline Zan

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2013, 01:47:23 PM »
I see no reason to complain about the character design. This new "Rockman" needed a unique identity, and they've certainly accomplished that. Furthermore, those "weird ass clothes" are very appropriate for fashion of the distant future.

My main qualms with the series are the extensive script length, lack of expression in the sprite artwork, and the obstructive random encounter rate. They should have followed Battle Network 6 more closely.

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You see a lot of Navis throughout the radio world, but none of them are important. Battle Cards make very little sense: Navis aren't a big thing, and only those that can EM Wave Change (read: you) can use them. Sooo, wha?  Huh What

The Internet from Battle Network never went away. The EM wave roads are simply an extension of that network: hence the emergence of EM viruses, hence the ability to obtain battle data from said viruses.

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I mean, "an ancient civilization with futuristic technology" that somehow existed between BN and SF? Huh?!

Obviously Mu existed long before the events of Battle Network. Contact between Mu and the alien races of Planets AM and FM is highly likely. Remember that Earth's modern EM network was established by the three satellite admins.

Offline Soultrigger

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2013, 10:26:15 PM »
I see no reason to complain about the character design. This new "Rockman" needed a unique identity, and they've certainly accomplished that.
Character design is largely subjective, so while we can all put forward our own reasons why we think the design is good or bad, ultimately it just comes down to whether you like it or not. Personally speaking, I always felt Mega Man's designs were too bulky until SF3. Tribe King looks like a miniature megazoid, which needs no further explanation.

The Internet from Battle Network never went away. The EM wave roads are simply an extension of that network: hence the emergence of EM viruses, hence the ability to obtain battle data from said viruses.
There's a difference though: BN centered <i>around</i> the Internet, while in SF, the Internet was just...kinda there. Navis don't play an important role anymore, because the focus is on AM-ians and EM-ians. Which as a result means no Net Battling, which means Battle Cards (or Chips) don't have any value storywise. Battling viruses is <i>supposed</i> to be done by Navis (I think), but it's usually you as Mega Man that saves the day by battling the viruses. Even if everything is there in SF, because you're this supposed superhero, you're basically disconnected from society, which means SF is more character-driven than it is world-driven. And yea, that really needs no further explanation either...

Obviously Mu existed long before the events of Battle Network. Contact between Mu and the alien races of Planets AM and FM is highly likely. Remember that Earth's modern EM network was established by the three satellite admins.
It's not that an ancient civilization couldn't exist, it's that an ancient civilization that was isolated for so long would unlikely have existed, so unlikely that it no longer becomes believable.

But to rethink the question, what is the merit of having an ancient civilization in the first place? A core appeal, at least for me, in the BN/SF universe is exploring and understanding a futuristic world imagined by other people. When the universe resorts to ancient civilization technology, they're essentially falling back on "magic" as a crutch and therefore have no need to explain it. Which, in my opinion, is the lazy way out.


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Offline Zan

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2013, 12:59:36 AM »
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Tribe King looks like a miniature megazoid, which needs no further explanation.

As a combination of three forms, I think we can both agree that's essentially what Tribe King is meant to be.

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There's a difference though: BN centered around the Internet, while in SF, the Internet was just...kinda there. Navis don't play an important role anymore, because the focus is on AM-ians and EM-ians. Which as a result means no Net Battling, which means Battle Cards (or Chips) don't have any value storywise. Battling viruses is supposed to be done by Navis (I think), but it's usually you as Mega Man that saves the day by battling the viruses.

The Net has been replaced by the Wave Road, which is equally central to the premise. Regular Navis are still capable of fighting viruses. Their effectiveness may be debatable and society may have long since moved on from the net-battling craze, but that doesn't mean Battle Cards don't have a purpose. Consider them as weapon data recovered from enemies, which the select few still part of that old subculture enjoy trading and collecting.

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Even if everything is there in SF, because you're this supposed superhero, you're basically disconnected from society, which means SF is more character-driven than it is world-driven. And yea, that really needs no further explanation either...

While the first Star Force was very nicely character-driven, I think it's a disservice to the series to say it wasn't also setting-driven. The progression of time has simply changed the world a great deal from Battle Network, even though many things have also stayed the same. Wouldn't it be more correct to say you just wanted another 20XX Battle Network, less outlandish and closer to home?

Quote
It's not that an ancient civilization couldn't exist, it's that an ancient civilization that was isolated for so long would have been unlikely to have existed, therefore making it not believable.

But to rethink the question, what is the merit of having an ancient civilization in the first place? A core appeal, at least for me, in the BN/SF universe is exploring and understanding a futuristic world imagined by other people. When the universe resorts to ancient civilization technology, they're essentially falling back on "magic" as a crutch and therefore have no need to explain it. Which, in my opinion, is the lazy way out.

The series' technology already has alien roots. And much like in both classic Rockman AND Battle Network, aliens and ancient civilizations are not unrelated. Remember Duo? The OS of the anti-planet missile? While further exploring the lore, Mu serves as a new source of antagonists after the first game exhausted many extraterrestrial options.

Offline Soultrigger

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2013, 06:10:49 AM »
Wouldn't it be more correct to say you just wanted another 20XX Battle Network, less outlandish and closer to home?
Perhaps, but different isn't necessarily better. Star Carriers mirrored that of real world mobile phones (and the constant updates every game), but they really aren't anything more than PETs successor.

The real focus was on Brother Bands, which unfortunately has a laughable real world equivalent: Facebook friends. Now I have no idea what kind of laws Japan has around social networking, but here in the states, you are only legally eligible to create a profile when you're 13 and up. For a game that's targeted towards elementary school kids, it doesn't really work to their advantage to use something that is both relatively unknown to the young while also something that is extremely pretentious.

Star Force 2 had Matter Waves, which don't have any real world equivalent. That addition was severely underutilized, imo.

The series' technology already has alien roots. And much like in both classic Rockman AND Battle Network, aliens and ancient civilizations are not unrelated. Remember Duo? The OS of the anti-planet missile? While further exploring the lore, Mu serves as a new source of antagonists after the first game exhausted many extraterrestrial options.
To be fair, I never played BN4 so I don't know about that chapter of the series nor do I really care to defend it (many consider BN4 to be one of the worsts, anyways...).

That being said, just because another series did it doesn't mean it's a good thing, or even okay. I would be critical of that regard for the robot series if I actually cared about the robot series universe, but the reality is that I don't. The robot series appeal is primarily in its in-the-moment gameplay, which emphasizes quick reflexes, pattern recognition, and precision. The X, Zero, and ZX series all rely on X and Zero being these legendary robots whose schematics never made sense to anyone for centuries. I like the robot series for more than just gameplay, but aside from Zero, the world setting never struck me as one of their strong points.

While it may seem like cherry picking, my point is that BN (as a whole), because it had many relevant real world equivalents, the universe was more believable and interesting. SF lacks that, and doesn't really compensate (imo), which as a result garners a much less favorable reaction/impression from me.

As an analogy, BN feels like Pokemon, the emphasis is not on you but the world you're exploring. SF is more like a generic superhero story that simply borrows the technology of BN. You can't really compare SF to Pokemon.


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Offline AquaTeamV3

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Re: why don't very many people like starforce?
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2013, 07:59:58 AM »
I can definitely sympathize with Soultrigger's opinion.  With the classic Megaman series, the premise was that 20XX was a future that featured technological advancement in the form of robots.  While fun to speculate about, it's clear that our world isn't headed that way.  Enter Battle Network.  Here we have an alternate universe where the Internet is used over robotics.  This is so much more realistic, especially when you consider that a lot of the tech you see in Battle Network exists today.  Heck, a PET is nothing more than a smartphone.  The BN series was arguably the most relatable series in terms of technology, and I really liked that about it.

Star Force isn't bad, but it really did destroy all of the relatability that BN had.  Real/Matter Waves in particular just took it to an all new level of "out there", and I wasn't too fond of that.
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