Author Topic: Looking for a bit of additional help in debate about X-to-Zero series transition  (Read 22293 times)

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Offline Zed Kal Eios

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Mostly this stems from the argument about why Axl never showed up in any mention at all during the Zero games, but my opposite in the debate is trying to press the view that X6's ending with Zero sealing himself up is an irrefutable and direct event that closes off the possibility of it ever happening at any other point in the timeline - especially after X7 or X8, which would nullify Axl's presence and explain why he's missing from the Zero games.

I've just linked him to the Timeline of X and MegaMan Zero then and now topics by Zan on here, but I'd like to ask for any additional info I can use to persuade him otherwise.

Offline Flame

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Zan's timeline is pretty good.

X6's Zero ending cannot take place at any other time besides the end of the X series, because Zero would never leave X alone unless he was confident that there was no big threat out there X could not handle alone. X6's ending has Sigma back in action. Zero would not leave the picture without seeing Sigma dead for good first.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Zan

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Just know that I haven't updated those timelines in quite a while... still haven't incorporated all that Zero Collection stuff.

However, I have addressed this particular topic on megamanx9.com recently. Allow me to quote it:

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There are two possibilities:

1) The timeline splits at Rockman X6: Zero's ending leads to Rockman ZERO; X's ending (without Zero) leads to Rockman X7.

2) Zero's ending occurs after X7 and X8, but not XCM.

Remember that R20+5 outright disputed Command Mission's place in the timeline. Other statements such as "1XX years ago" and "22XX, same timeframe as the ZERO-series" do not bode well for its inclusion alongside Rockman ZERO. (Never mind the implications left behind by Rockman Online.)

I've started to prefer the first option because it does not exclude XCM, considering X7, X8 and XCM as a complete trilogy. The canonical status of this branch is equal to the ZERO-series. Both saw the Maverick Wars continue, both saw the development of Orbital Elevators... whereas Red, Axl and the Copy Chip all existed since long before X6. In other words, the divergent timelines share a common past: Model A could be based on Axl either way.

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Rockman ZERO is a direct continuation of X6, following Zero's ending.

X7 and X8 are an alternate continuation of X6 in which Zero has not (yet?) gone to sleep. They may still take place before Rockman ZERO, but only if you omit Command Mission.

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Classic (200X/200X+α/20XX) > 100 years > X (21XX) > 150~1XX years > ZERO > 200 years > ZX > 3000+ years > Legends

Classic (200X/200X+α/20XX) > 100 years > X (21XX/22XX)

Battle Network (200X/20XX) > 200 years > Star Force (220X/22XX)

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MHX, the Day of Sigma
||
X1, The Sigma Rebellion Incident (21XX, 2114+)
>
X2, The X-hunter Incident (6 months after X1)
>

XC, Xtreme, The Mother Computer Hacking Incident (Many years after X was found)
||
Megamisson (3 months after X2, Gaiden)

>
X3, The Doctor Doppler Incident (Several months after Doppler Town is founded several months after X2)
>

[MegaMission2, VS Revenge Limited (2 months after X3, Gaiden) > MegaMission3, VS Hyper Limited (Unfinished, Gaiden)]
||
XS, Xtreme2, The Soul Eraser Incident

>
X4, The Repliforce War (Several months after X3)
>
X5, The Falling Colony Incident (Several months after X4)
>
X6, The Nightmare Virus Incident (Three weeks after X5. Zero seals himself away for an intended 102 years?)
>
X7, The Red Alert Incident (Long Time after X5, Zero is still around?)
>
X8, Paradise Lost
>
XCM (22XX, 2202+, Gaiden)

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Maverick Wars (long lasting JP, centuries long US, Zero studied for half a century.)
>
Elf Wars (4 years long)
>
ZERO (100 years after Elf Wars, Inti)
>
ZERO2 (1 year after ZERO, Inti)
>
ZERO3 (2 months after ZERO2, April, Inti)
>
ZERO4 (Several months after ZERO3, December, Inti)
>
Vile's Incident -Eden Dome it's sin and rebirth- (2 years after ZERO4, Inti)

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Command Mission has always been classified as a "gaiden" or "alternate universe" because it takes place in "22XX", the distant future of the X-series.

Rockman ZERO occurs "1XX years" in a similar distant future of the X-series.

From earliest 2105, 2109, 2114...

X1 > atleast three years > X5

X1 > six months > X2 > several months and several months > X3 > several months > X4 > several months > X5 > three weeks > X6

Then Zero being studied for more than 50 years (of a maximum 102), Elf Wars and another hundred years of slumber... we arrive at 2267 or later...

Command Mission's force metal meteor was discovered on 2202... > 150 years > 2352...

All in all, placing Command Mission before X6's Zero Ending is a really really tight fit. Still, Orbital Elevators first originated in ZERO with Neo Arcadia Tower. XCM had Babel... X8 explained their origins with Jakob... and Axl's copy chip paved the way for ZX Advent... even if the 'exact' stories of those games are not part of the ZERO-series, some incredibly similar events did indeed take place before the Elf Wars.

Hope that long read clarifies matters.

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Offline Saber

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Split timeline theories... I'm getting some baaaad Zelda vibes here.

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Command Mission has always been classified as a "gaiden" or "alternate universe" because it takes place in "22XX", the distant future of the X-series.

A "Gaiden" is usually considered a "sidestory". Majora's Mask is a sidestory to Ocarina of Time, but is still part of the official timeline (screw that one, by the way). I have no knowledge of the contents of R20+5, so I would welcome some elaboration. Yes, I can see why one would think it doesn't really matter to the overall franchise because the story is hardly connected to the rest of the series and the Force Metal concept was unique to this game, but I still don't really feel that it should be considered non-canon. I would consider it "an episode" in the line of duty of X and the others since there's not even a mention of Sigma and the overall Irregular War, but still...

Not to mention I'm having a hard time believing that any sane person would go out front and tell people that a game they made in a long-running franchise can be completely disregarded. In some way, that invalidates the entire game. That in turn would turn Command Mission into either a "what if" scenario or "originally-canon-turned-semi-official-fanfiction".

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Then Zero being studied for more than 50 years (of a maximum 102), Elf Wars and another hundred years of slumber... we arrive at 2267 or later...

I would like to enquire any sources you can provide in regards to the duration of Zero being studied. I'm aware of that line from the mystery scientist in X6 that it would take roughly 102 years (I recall it being 104 years for some reason) until whatever procedure Zero was subjected to would rid him of the virus, but what's with him being studied for more than half a century?

Have to wonder however if X6's Zero Ending really has to be regarded as canon, no matter where it is placed in the timeline. I mean, the purpose of Zero sealing himself in X6 was to get a thorough checkup and have whatever traces left of the Zero / Irregular Virus inside him wiped out so he wouldn't continue to spread it anymore and give rise to people like Sigma and Gate. I don't recall him consenting to being studied by the powers in charge to develop counter-measures against it (i.e. Ciel's ancestor) or Anti-Irregular weaponry (i.e. Vile). Am I to assume Zero went to sleep and then the government stepped in, dragged his unconcious body off to some secret laboratory and stuck probes in his circuitry for 50 years?



Offline Zan

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Split timeline theories... I'm getting some baaaad Zelda vibes here.

As a Fate Stay Night fan, this really shouldn't bother you too much. It's the same concept.

Quote
Majora's Mask is a sidestory to Ocarina of Time, but is still part of the official timeline (screw that one, by the way).

(click to show/hide)

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A "Gaiden" is usually considered a "sidestory". I have no knowledge of the contents of R20+5, so I would welcome some elaboration.

Let me rephrase: it's been called both Gaiden (Compendium) 'and' Alternate Universe (R20+5, translation pending) on separate occasions. By comparison, Mega Mission is called "Rockman X Gaiden". A phrase like "Parallel World" has been applied to Power Battle and Power Fighters aswell.

Mega Mission has its fair share of issues (Doppler's open declaration of evil intent months before Doppel Town's founding, Zero using a Right armor, inconclusive ending) but is still undeniably framed around the events of X3.

Likewise Power Battle and Power Fighters do occur after R7 and R8 respectively, but we're supposed to ignore minor incongruities over the broad strokes.

So, even though "Alternate Universe" may not be the exact same thing as "Parallel World", it does seem like we're not supposed to outright deny the existence of these sort of titles. As such, Command Mission does occur in 22XX after X8 no matter what, we just need to reconcile it with Rockman ZERO.

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I would like to enquire any sources you can provide in regards to the duration of Zero being studied.

X6
Mystery Scientist: ... I see. It'll take a while to get rid of this. Even with the latest technology, it's hard to succeed... I'm not really sure if I can fix this completely...
Zero: Don't worry. I must do it before it's too late.
Mystery Scientist: But you haven't had any problems yet... You'll be fine as you are, won't you? It's none of my business, but what will we do in a crisis without you?
Zero: Ha. I'm sorry, but don't worry... There's a superior Maverick Hunter. But I'm scared that I may become a disturbing presence.
Mystery Scientist: ... I agree. You look ready.
Zero: Yeah... So, when will I wake up?
Mystery Scientist: If there is no problem... It will be around August 15, 102 years from now.
Zero: ... Right. Here's to a successful sleep.
Mystery Scientist: I'll do my best. Have a good sleep...


MMZOCW, Idiom Dictionary.
Underground Laboratory (Forgotten Laboratory)
ZERO 1
The facility built to house Zero, who was discovered to be the source of the Sigma Virus outbreak. For half a century, Zero was used in many Sigma Virus-related experiments. This laboratory is also where Ciel's ancestors studied Cyber-elves, and where Weil created Omega. But because all records of its existance were wiped from history by Neo Arcadia, only a select few still know where it is.

Ciel standing in front of the laboratory where Zero has been in stasis for one hundred years.


Quote
Have to wonder however if X6's Zero Ending really has to be regarded as canon, no matter where it is placed in the timeline. I mean, the purpose of Zero sealing himself in X6 was to get a thorough checkup and have whatever traces left of the Zero / Irregular Virus inside him wiped out so he wouldn't continue to spread it anymore and give rise to people like Sigma and Gate. I don't recall him consenting to being studied by the powers in charge to develop counter-measures against it (i.e. Ciel's ancestor) or Anti-Irregular weaponry (i.e. Vile). Am I to assume Zero went to sleep and then the government stepped in, dragged his unconcious body off to some secret laboratory and stuck probes in his circuitry for 50 years?

I've addressed a similar remark here:
http://megamanx9.com/forum/index.php?/topic/5356-is-zero-an-alternate-timeline/page__view__findpost__p__127598

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Offline Hypershell

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R20+5 was already translated and released by Udon, I find it HIGHLY unusual that such a landmark statement wouldn't have seen any sort of transcript on the net beyond heresay...  God knows we have enough experience as Mega Man fans dealing with issues arising from someone jumping to conclusions over a badly interpreted piece of writing (Light made the virus).

Ultimately I consider "22XX" comments as they relate to the Zero series to reflect a lack of communication among Capcom's employees, seeings how no Zero-series-related documentation ever actually stated it following the development and release of Z2.  The personal remarks of XCM's character artists notwithstanding, the only official source of that was some old text meant to hype up the first Zero series game, well before XCM was made.  Remember, IntiCreates took it upon themselves to expand the series gap in order to explain Dark Elf's origins, even their own intentions as of Z1 don't necessarily hold true in the face of future titles.

If Capcom or Inticreates had any intention of maintaining the Zero series' timeframe as 22XX, then the Zero Collection website timeline which goes so far as to directly reference X6 would have been the natural time to reiterate it.  They did not.  The phrase "1XX years ago" was controversial in that it brought to light that the X6-to-Elf-Wars seal was not a full century, and that whether by intent or negligence it pegs Zero's "birth" as being significantly later than X's, but both of those points stand regardless of Command Mission (it's also worth mentioning that the ZC timeline jumps around a bit, mentioning the origin of Sigma Virus's name before Sigma actually rebels).

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Offline Zan

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R20+5 was already translated and released by Udon, I find it HIGHLY unusual that such a landmark statement wouldn't have seen any sort of transcript on the net beyond heresay...  God knows we have enough experience as Mega Man fans dealing with issues arising from someone jumping to conclusions over a badly interpreted piece of writing (Light made the virus).

We're talking of a book which since its limited hardcover release at comic-con has had zero coverage of the 'actual' softcover release. The select few owners, which may or may not have noticed that tidbit, lack a proper outlet for discussion.

If someone has the book, let me know!

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seeings how no Zero-series-related documentation ever actually stated it following the development and release of Z2.

Through waybackmachine-ing the initial Z1 announcements, I can say for certain that (barring the manga) "22XX" was always a fan-substitution of "100 years after the X-series".

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The phrase "1XX years ago" was controversial in that it brought to light that the X6-to-Elf-Wars seal was not a full century,

ZERO Complete Works already asserted "half a century + a century". "1XX" certainly fits with those 150 years, as well as the additional 5 or so years we know from X's discovery to X6.

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and that whether by intent or negligence it pegs Zero's "birth" as being significantly later than X's

By intent or negligence, indeed.

There's certainly a lot of fun to be had theorizing on Wily's continued production of Zero into the next century... but even invalidating that entry, we simply correct the label to "at least 200 years ago", not discard the rest. Official releases such as "Hyrule Historia" and "ZERO Complete Works" have made similar errors in the past.

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Offline Hypershell

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Well, that's just it.  If we switch the label, then "at least 200 years ago" pretty well broadens things up.  If all other documentation merely states "100 years after X series" as you say, without mentioning specific events, then that still leaves the Zero Collection site as the most specific timeline we ever got.  "1XX years ago" simply means between 100 and 200, a timeframe which only casts Command Mission into doubt if you assume that the copyright date on Cain's software is indicative of the actual time that Cain found X.

We don't actually know that for two reasons: 1. We have no idea how up-to-date Cain's computer is, and 2. Cain is reading tech sheets and warnings from a century ago, he may need to resort to older programs and/or hardware for the sake of compatibility.

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Offline Zan

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Yeah, Command Missions is really the only one cast in immediate doubt. Promoting X7 and X8 with XCM as their own branch seperate from ZERO merely serves to salvage it. The only other options we have are to discard the title and its stated date, or acknowledge a 40 year discrepancy from the dates of Cain's computer. The whole X-series should then occur in any of the decades following the 2150s.

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Offline Fxeni

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We're talking of a book which since its limited hardcover release at comic-con has had zero coverage of the 'actual' softcover release. The select few owners, which may or may not have noticed that tidbit, lack a proper outlet for discussion.

If someone has the book, let me know!

If you would happen to know the approximate page numbers for it, I can look into it.

Offline Zan

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I wouldn't know the page number, but we're looking for the Q&A session called "The Answer" at the very end of R20+5. Of particular note is the question that pertains to Command Missions's status as an alternate universe of sorts.

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Offline Fxeni

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Higurashi: "Command Mission" is technically a spin-off, so even though it takes place in 22XX, it's not necessarily the same "22XX" during which the "Zero" series takes place. Still, we didn't want to cut it off completely just because it's a spin-off. Our goal was to incorporate some of the "Zero" series' flavor in order to make it feel like "Command Mission" is still connected to the other games, like it is part of the same family. So it might be easier if you regard "Command Mission" not as "a story that takes place between X7 and the Zero series", but rather as "one of many potential futures that exists independently from the Zero series".

Offline Zan

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Thank you very much! Interesting stuff.

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Offline TheOnly

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It would be nice if we had more games like this that branch out in this manner.
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Offline Zan

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Higurashi's statement nicely fits with what already know, and what Rockman Online implicated. Let's do some extrapolating...

Basic timeframe:
-Command Mission (22XX, 2202+)
-ZERO (Second half of 22XX).
-Elf Wars (Second half of 21XX)
-X1-6 (First half of 21XX, 2114+)

Command Mission would take place in a potential future in which Zero did not seal himself, and Elf Wars never happened.

When we consider Zero himself spreads the virus during missions, we become witness to a certain level of dramatic irony in his XCM solo routine: "The droids here could go Maverick and turn into enemies at any time." It reaffirms how much he's unaware of the very facts that led to his seal, not only throughout Command Mission but throughout X7 and X8 as well.

Finally, while giving Command Mission some of the ZERO-series flavor, Zero looks the same as always. It is instead X's new armor that got the 22XX treatment. Indirectly, this asserts that the events following his sealing play a large role in his ZERO-series redesign.

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With that in mind, I think it'd be cool if Command Mission continued as a separate series.  The storytelling was arguably some of the best in the franchise (only behind Legends IMO), and I'd really like to see how the future would have progressed in a timeline where Zero didn't seal himself.

That said, I wonder how the Maverick Wars would end considering that the Mother Elf wasn't used to eradicate the virus.
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Offline Hypershell

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Regardless of its place in the timeline, I agree that Command Mission is something that should be followed up on.  The extra protagonists that it introduced were very interesting, but generally didn't get enough screen time (you literally never see Marino and Cinnamon in cutscene after the chapter in which they join, and you see very little of Massimo as well).

Higurashi's statement nicely fits with what already know, and what Rockman Online implicated. Let's do some extrapolating...

Basic timeframe:
-Command Mission (22XX, 2202+)
-ZERO (Second half of 22XX).
-Elf Wars (Second half of 21XX)
-X1-6 (First half of 21XX, 2114+)

Command Mission would take place in a potential future in which Zero did not seal himself, and Elf Wars never happened.

When we consider Zero himself spreads the virus during missions, we become witness to a certain level of dramatic irony in his XCM solo routine: "The droids here could go Maverick and turn into enemies at any time." It reaffirms how much he's unaware of the very facts that led to his seal, not only throughout Command Mission but throughout X7 and X8 as well.
It's worth mentioning that Higurashi had a larger role with Command Mission, not so much with Zero series that I'm aware.  Still, that means there is little sense in overruling his intentions with Command Mission without a good reason, and at current, we have none.

Rockman Online takes place in a world where body copying is commonplace, which causes X8's foreshadowing to jump ahead of Command Mission, unless Online in itself was to be an alternate world along the same lines as XOver (which given the obscurity of the game's development and the wide range of non-combat and/or non-Reploid characters who do not belong in a post-XCM/pre-Zero world, is a very likely scenario).

I believe it was always assumed that Command Mission was pre-Mother Elf, so nothing's really changed in terms of the meaning of Zero's commentary.  It always stood mainly as a poor understanding of Force Metal's impacts on the Reploids of Giga City; the virus still running rampant (confirmed in Marino's backstory) only served to compound things.

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Finally, while giving Command Mission some of the ZERO-series flavor, Zero looks the same as always. It is instead X's new armor that got the 22XX treatment. Indirectly, this asserts that the events following his sealing play a large role in his ZERO-series redesign.
Also the same as before, Omega points the other way, and I think he's still the strongest statement on that topic that we have.

But, it is worth mentioning that it is Command Mission which introduced us to the idea of canonically redesigning Zero's body without any implied presence of a Wily ghost (Absolute Zero hyper mode......man, I wish we had some backstory there).  Then there's always the lack of Z-Buster to think about...



What I'm wondering is what this means for X7 and X8, as the confirmation of a timeline fork throws them into question again.  Right now they're in a sort of limbo, neither confirmed in or out.  Zero Collection's timeline references directly the Nightmare Incident (so contrary to popular belief, Zero series does not continue direct from X5), but X6 in and of itself does not bring to the Hunters' attention that Zero was the source of Gate's infection, merely that Zero was the means to an evil guy's end (and it certainly isn't the first time that's happened; see X2 and X5).  The question then is, do the facts of that case come to light after further games have taken place, or not?

Also relevant, ZX Advent suggests that Axl must exist in Zero's timeline somewhere, but the ambiguity of his references means there's no real reason his life had to have turned out the way X7-through-XCM depict it.

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Offline Zan

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Rockman Online takes place in a world where body copying is commonplace, which causes X8's foreshadowing to jump ahead of Command Mission, unless Online in itself was to be an alternate world along the same lines as XOver (which given the obscurity of the game's development and the wide range of non-combat and/or non-Reploid characters who are supposed to be dead, is a very likely scenario).

Online, in all its revealed background information, positioned itself in the far future of classic, X and Command Mission. As Cinnamon's visions of Neo Arcadia implicate it's a parallel universe to Rockman ZERO, NeoWiz seemed well aware of the developer's intent Higurashi mentioned.

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the virus still running rampant (confirmed in Marino's backstory)

This little detail also still serves as nice confirmation that the Sigma Virus can exist independently of Sigma, no matter where X7 and X8 may now end up in relation to the Rockman ZERO timeline.

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Also the same as before, Omega points the other way, and I think he's still the strongest statement on that topic that we have.

Omega, not having been tampered with since Elf Wars, has the same design as copy Zero. How does that point the other way? Between X6 and Elf Wars, his form obviously has gone through great changes. Not only did Higurashi implicate a plot reason, Inafune did so twice. Furthermore, characters in cross-overs also respond quite differently to ZERO Zero than X Zero. For example, Zero's short stature is oft mentioned in SvC Chaos, never in TvC, MvC3 or PxZ.

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What I'm wondering is what this means for X7 and X8, as the confirmation of a timeline fork throws them into question again.  Right now they're in a sort of limbo, neither confirmed in or out.

Rockman Perfect Memories:
Zero's secret to going to sleep and being in the Zero series is revealed in X7!

X7:
Snipe Anteator: Hohoh! Very well. But you've forgotten your true mission.
Zero: ...? My true mission?
Snipe Anteator:' I see data buried deep within you... Is it memories of the future? Or false images of the past?
Zero: ...
Snipe Anteator: Blue - the lies that have infested the earth. Red - those destroyed and sealed away forever.
Zero: Hm! I don't know what you saw, and I don't care, either. My "true mission" is to defeat you, here and now!
Snipe Anteator: Hohohoh... You certainly are driven.
Zero: I don't have time to listen to your prattling. Ready yourself!


Yeah, I don't know either.

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Offline Hypershell

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Online, in all its revealed background information, positioned itself in the far future of classic, X and Command Mission. As Cinnamon's visions of Neo Arcadia implicate it's a parallel universe to Rockman ZERO, NeoWiz seemed well aware of the developer's intent Higurashi mentioned.
That's making a leap of faith on what the intent behind Cinnamon's visions was.  You can look into a different timeframe about as easily as you can look into an alternate world (ask Shinra), and any philosophical points as to the future not being written in stone would only serve to blur the distinction between the two.  Also noteworthy: At least two Zero-series mechaniloids already appear in the Rockman Online trailers.

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Omega, not having been tampered with since Elf Wars, has the same design as copy Zero. How does that point the other way?
Because outside of the missing Z-Buster which the X-series itself has no problem with, there is absolutely no documentation that Zero's body was modified prior to his first seal.  Omega's origins dictate that Zero's original body was taken prior to the start of Elf Wars, therefore it speaks against any such body redesigns being Elf Wars-centric, barring Weil and Ciel's grandmother stealing each other's designs, anyway.

Command Mission dictates that we are at a later time than Elf Wars, and Zero's body CAN be reformed (implied by Absolute Zero; canonical status of a hidden upgrade being the only argument against), yet his "default" body is still more or less the traditional look (minor alterations were made; foot detailing and a double-collar).  It's also noticeable that the "22XX-like" armor applies specifically to X, and is a rarity not only among our heroes, but also our villains and the general public.

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Inafune did so twice. Furthermore, characters in cross-overs also respond quite differently to ZERO Zero than X Zero. For example, Zero's short stature is oft mentioned in SvC Chaos, never in TvC, MvC3 or PxZ.
The first Inafune reference is the change in technology, not Zero specifically.  The general design trends are obviously apparent given that Zero-series Reploids are far more human-like than X-series Reploids (Command Mission providing our frame of reference for the general public 'roids).  The second says to simply play the games and find out, which I'm pretty sure we've both done.  Omega is, again, the most obvious thing that speaks to any effect on the matter.

X-series Zero is generally perceived as being taller than he "officially" is.  Probably because his most common frame of reference is being about half a head taller than X, and most people don't realize that X is "officially" only 5'3".  His stature in Project X Zone most certainly does not appear to be such, and I'd say neither does Command Mission.

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Offline Zan

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Higurashi implicate a plot reason, Inafune did so twice.

For future reference, let's compile the relevant quotes:

MMXOCW:
*X image with his scarf taking up half the picture, you know the one*
MARKETING ILLUSTRATION
"When I heard the timeframe was set in the year 22XX, I realized it was the same as the Zero series. That's why I added a few touches to give it a bit of a Zero flavor.  Initially, I had some reservations about X's design changes, but I think it suits him quite well." (Higurashi)

*****

MM25:
Higurashi: "Command Mission" is technically a spin-off, so even though it takes place in 22XX, it's not necessarily the same "22XX" during which the "Zero" series takes place. Still, we didn't want to cut it off completely just because it's a spin-off. Our goal was to incorporate some of the "Zero" series' flavor in order to make it feel like "Command Mission" is still connected to the other games, like it is part of the same family. So it might be easier if you regard "Command Mission" not as "a story that takes place between X7 and the Zero series", but rather as "one of many potential futures that exists independently from the Zero series".

*****

Sean: Repliroids in Rockman Zero look quite different from the
Repliroids that are in Rockman X. Is there any specific basis for
this change, such as new technology, or is this merely a change of
art style?
Keiji: Of course, yes, Mega Man Zero takes place 100 years after the
X series, so of course the technology has advanced quite a bit, and
we had to redesign all the robots to reflect that.

*****

8)
ibehv: Why is zero's appearance in megaman zero different from his appearance in megaman x?
Inafune: Zero is one of the most important characters for me. Initially, Zero was created for the Mega Man X fans as well as for fans new to the series. But rather than making a game with Zero as a main character in the established storyline, we wanted to create a brand new storyline for him with a completely new game design. Thus, Zero you all know now was born. The story of the Mega Man Zero game also tells you the secret behind the Zeroís appearance change. So if you havenít played the game yet, please try it out!

*****

In summary:
-Both of Higurashi's statements assess: "22XX" requires some "ZERO-series flavor" (X's new armor, cutting-edge in-game, is the most prominent example.)

-Inafune does say 'all' robots were redesigned to reflect the advanced technology of 100 years later. (No distinction is made between combat and civilian models.)

-The 'story' reveals a 'secret' related to Zero's appearance change. (Weil's quote about Omega being the Original Zero which he upgraded applies, see below.)

Quote
Because outside of the missing Z-Buster which the X-series itself has no problem with, there is absolutely no documentation that Zero's body was modified prior to his first seal.  Omega's origins dictate that Zero's original body was taken prior to the start of Elf Wars, therefore it speaks against any such body redesigns being Elf Wars-centric, barring Weil and Ciel's grandmother stealing each other's designs, anyway.

Lacking both the Triple/Chain/Recoil Rod and Shield Boomerang, while having the Rock Buster Mk.17 enhanced Z-Saber with bustershot, we confirm upgrades to the original Zero's arsenal while at the research institute (mind and body separated, weapons expert Dr. Weil involved). The magazine clip functionality at least informs us of intent to replace Zero's old Z-Buster and improve his combat performance.

That said, I'd like to present the following quotes:

MMZOCW, Page 55:
Sketches of Omega's first form. It is indicated here that the armor covering the body has a dampening effect to contain the overwhelming power within.


*****

ZERO3 Kanzen Kouryakubon, page 131.
Zero's defeated the giant Omega, but the strongest enemy now draws near!!


*****

ZERO3:
Dr. Weil: Hehehehe... You thought you were a hero all along, didn't you! Never suspecting that you were a mere copy. What a joke! Omega himself is the one and only, original Zero! You're just a copy of him!

Zero: The original Zero... Why is he your slave, then?

Dr. Weil: Hmph! He's a bloodthirsty God of Destruction. All I did was upgrade him to draw out all his power! All right, Omega...... or should I say "Original Zero"! Time to wake this pitiful fake from a century-long deam!


*****

Since Omega form 1 is artificially limited in power (Dark Elf being the source of power for the giant Omega / Omega form 2), Weil's quote of upgrading to 'drawn out all his power' can only apply to the original Zero / Omega form 3.

Quote
At least two Zero-series mechaniloids already appear in the Rockman Online trailers.

Yes, Mega Scorpia and Quicksand Mixer have appeared in Rockman Online (with minimal design changes!). Nothing excludes these mechaniloids from appearing in a parallel universe timeline branch.

Quote
That's making a leap of faith on what the intent behind Cinnamon's visions was.

Notice key ZERO-series details are absent from RMO profiles?

X is a legendary Irregular Hunter who worked to destroy the Sigma Virus, which causes destructive behavior in a repliroid, turning it into an Irregular.
He eventually won his battle against the Sigma Virus, and after confirming the world was in peace, went to eternal rest.
For ages, mankind and repliroids believed that the Sigma Virus had been completely eradicated.

Zero is the masterpiece of Dr. Wily, who tried to use Humaroids (humanoid robots) to take over the world.
Zero is known to be the the original host of the Sigma Virus, which turns repliroids into Irregulars, and openly acknowledges that fact himself.
However, despite that dark past, Zero defeated countless irregulars with his undying belief in whatís right, and always trusted the sometimes unsure X, supporting him by his side.


Posted on: October 09, 2013, 01:19:05 PM
Relevant addition:



Q.まずはデザインのコンセプトについてお聞きしました。
ロックマンXのゼロをベースにしているのかな?と思いきや・・・


A.Xoverの世界観でいうと、Xシリーズとゼロシリーズ両方のゼロが
混在していると思うので、それらを見たコサックが自身の観点・


Apparently it says that Cossack (in-universe) saw both X-series Zero and ZERO-series Zero, and fused their designs to create Over-Z. Guess they look different after all?

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Offline Hypershell

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Most of that we've been over already.  On Over-Z, I consider XOver to be about as canonical as Project X Zone.  Also on Omega, your point of view is valid, but Omega form 3 does in fact use the Dark Elf, so Weil's upgrades apply in any event.  Could also be read into the use of Omega's "legacy attacks" that Copy Zero for some god-forsaken reason never touches.

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Offline Zan

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Most of that we've been over already.  On Over-Z, I consider XOver to be about as canonical as Project X Zone.

Let's just say it's interesting how different developers consider the same subject.

Quote
Also on Omega, your point of view is valid, but Omega form 3 does in fact use the Dark Elf, so Weil's upgrades apply in any event.  Could also be read into the use of Omega's "legacy attacks" that Copy Zero for some god-forsaken reason never touches.

Yes, all forms of Omega 'use' the Dark Elf, but Omega form 2 (an amalgamation of both X and Zero) came into existence by releasing the Dark Elf's power. It stands to reason that only Omega form 3 applies to Weil's statement about "the bloodthirsty God of Destruction", "the original Zero" and "upgrade to draw out all his power". It certainly fits the context of the scene best: Zero is a copy of 'him'.

Quote
Could also be read into the use of Omega's "legacy attacks" that Copy Zero for some god-forsaken reason never touches.

Weil's mind games notwithstanding, Inti's possible scenario of a lingering evil persona in Zero's original mindless body allows for those legacy attacks.

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Offline HokutoNoBen

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With that in mind, I think it'd be cool if Command Mission continued as a separate series.  The storytelling was arguably some of the best in the franchise (only behind Legends IMO), and I'd really like to see how the future would have progressed in a timeline where Zero didn't seal himself.

That said, I wonder how the Maverick Wars would end considering that the Mother Elf wasn't used to eradicate the virus.

Good points.

CM, while a bit underwhelming when I originally played it, still had loads of potential that I would have loved to see done more with. Both storyline-wise and especially gameplay-wise. My best guess is that if the Mother Elf was never created by using Zero's body, it, or something similar, might have been through possibly other means (especially if theories about the Dr. Light AI possibly being a link to a "Cyber World" existing was at all explored).

It's a pity that in this current climate, Capcom's current attitude towards more traditional JRPGs is perhaps even less ambivalent than they are to even Rockman. Hell, I'd even take a Command Mission-themed MonHun clone, at this rate, if it meant awesome gameplay along with a compelling narrative.

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Q. First of all, what can you tell us about the design concept. It's based on Zero from Rockman X, right? That's what it looks like...

A. I thought it should be a mixture of both the Zero from the X series and from the Zero series, so the concept from within the Xover universe is that Dr. Cossack saw both Zero forms and made this armor his own personal interpretation of Zero's core image.

Also, OVER-B already uses a standard sized sword so I made this one a two-handed longsword to help differentiate it. Looking at it, I think it adds a lot of character and turned out really well.

Ucchy: I see! So Dr. Cossack was originally the one who came up with the matryoshka concept for OVER-1 in the story, and he's the one who saw both Zeros and drew up this design. It makes a lot of sense looking at it like that.

Q. Next, is there anything in particular you want to point out in particlar about this piece, or the design process?

A. I didn't want this to be just another Zero cosplay, I wanted him to be recognizable as Zero even without his usual hair, and focused instead on the sense of speed. Even the coloring was chosen to give an impression of being speedy.

Ucchy: You're right, even though this Zero design lacks the trademark long hair, my first immediate thought was "that's totally Zero!" That's pretty amazing, well done! And the coloring is really vibrant and lively too. It reminds me of a pair of running shoes!

Q. And now for the question on everyone's mind, why is the Z-Saber a real physical blade and not a beam weapon?!

A. The X series (in the year 21XX) was where beam weapons were more or less first introduced, so I've been mindful to try and avoid using them too conspicuously, but with this one and OVER-B it was finally decided "beams are ok if the situation really calls for it" so you might say the beam ban has finally been lifted, ha ha. So, prepare to see more beam weapons from here on out.

Ucchy: So that's what's been going on behind the scenes! And to go along with that, we have here a never before seen concept picture!

-When used, the beam along the blade activates.
-This is a two-handed longsword style weapon.

Wow, how do ya like that! That's so cool, I'm trembling! This sword's hilt and grip sections really give off a strong Rockman Zero vibe.

This has been great, getting this top-secret developer insight and concept images. I think we've really gotten to the nitty gritty of this new Rockman Xover armor! Our deepest thanks to Mr. Saito!

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