Author Topic: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?  (Read 4130 times)

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Offline AquaTeamV3

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Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« on: September 16, 2013, 03:13:35 AM »
So I recently played through Maverick Hunter X, and I thought it was great.  Though it screwed with a few elements that made the original great, it was for the most part an amazing remake.  Plus playing as Vile was tons of fun; he's arguably the most technical character in a Megaman platformer I've played.  That said, I remember it being said somewhere that Inafune planned to remake the series up to X6 originally.  I often wonder how that would have worked out for multiple reasons:

- X1's a pretty straightforward game with well-designed levels, so a remake merely involves some polishing.  With games like X3 and X6, it gets tougher in that you'd have to outright rebuild the crappier stages from the ground up.  I've always wondered what they'd do with those titles if they had more time to make the levels actually fun.

- Speaking of redesigns, the bosses would go through a change too in that they'd have a much better AI.  It's fun to speculate how X3 bosses would be to fight against if they were actually smart.  Maybe they can do more than ram themselves at walls aimlessly.

- One of the huge draws to MHX is having Vile playable.  Inafune outright stated that they went with Vile because Zero would have been the obvious choice.  With the other games, I can't help but wonder who else you'd draw from aside from Zero in terms of playable characters.  In theory you could have a Dynamo Mode for X5-6, and fix the empty room syndrome of X3 by making Zero playable, but where does that leave X2/4?  You could pull from the X-Hunters (Agile Mode?) in a search for Zero's parts, and maybe have a 'Colonel Mode' where you get to see the Repliforce side of things closer.

- Possible redesign of Armor functions?  Could have X3 Dust Buster not suck, give the X5 Force Armor a weaker charge shot, and the Blade Armor would have an actual offensive presence.

- The Xtreme games would benefit greatly from the MHX treatment.  In particular I thought XTreme 2 was already good, so an updated presentation would breathe some new life to the game.

IMO a MHX2-6 could have turned out well, and it's fun to speculate what changes Inafune would implement.  Do you think remakes for the following X games would work, and what changes do you think would be feasible?
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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2013, 05:52:24 AM »
Wasn't Zero already (sorta) playable in X3?

It's a shame that MHX2 and onward never came to fruition because MHX1 wasn't a commercial success and the idea to fix the originals on the X Collection got in the way of possibly remaking the other games in the X series (which oddly enough never happened other than a few script changes in X1 that I can vaguely remember).

I'm all up for a superior X-Buster upgrade in X3. Let's be frank here: who would ever rely on that double buster fusion shot in X3? It sounds cool on paper, and I did kinda like how the fusion shot covers a wider area, but it's more impractical. Pretty much anything you run into can be taken down with an old-fashion charged shot and a few quick shot off your buster. Plus once you get that fusion shot going, you have to wait until the shot goes off screen to use the X-Buster again. What I liked about the Giga Armor's X-Buster from X2 (and Model X from ZX) was it was simple but practical; all you had to do is charge up your X-Buster all the way and you have two charged shots ready to be used right from the get-go.

(click to show/hide)

One thing I would like to see in a remake of X3-6 is not just making the boss A.I. better, but give them some new attacks. Something that make old boss fights from the originals feel new to veterans while making them more exciting to new-comers. Here's an example from DuckTales and DuckTales: Remastered: The boss at the Amazon level really only had one major attack, and that was thwomping Scrooge McDuck. In DuckTales: Remastered, not only did it still have the same attack pattern from the original, but also an earthquake attack and it tries to use the shifting pillars in the room to make pancakes out of you.

Having the ability to play Colonel sounds interesting and hopefully could shed some light on what going through Repliforce's heads, though how's Colonel side of the story going to end? I'm not sure if Iris will take losing Zero as well as losing her brother, but that could make for an interesting "what if" scenario.

That's all I got for now, not a fan of making walls of text with Wii Opera browser. XD

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2013, 06:05:59 AM »
It's hard to say that revisiting any specific X game would be a bad idea, but at the same time, redoing the better part of the series I'm sure things would have gotten stale after a while, ESPECIALLY if they continue to one-off it (personally I'd pack two games together with some hidden unlockables that span both).

Vile mode, I concede, was awesome.  I would put forth however that the "obvious" answer is not necessarily the dull/wrong one.  Zero is not any less valid of a choice for a playable X-series
character than he was ever before.  I suppose his main issue with X1 would be his lacking any original enemies to end his campaign with.  With X2 and X3 there's at least room to write in some obstacles on his path to the "computer core" that seems to preoccupy him.  I do NOT recommend coming up with odd-ball random playable characters for every game as it would cheapen the "guest" characters, but doing one or two others may not be a bad idea.

Remakes are always a balancing act in terms of what to "fix" and what to leave alone.  MHX committed the cardinal sin of watering down your main weapon (after capsule upgrade, that is) and thus competes with rather than compliments its predecessor.  But at least it handled the screen ratio shift better than Powered Up did.

Since X1 basically nailed everything it did, the main draw going into a remake is technical presentation, and I do feel that was a bit hit-or-miss (Part of that I blame on having Yoshikawa in the art director's chair, but also whoever handled the character models clearly didn't know what they were doing either.).  X2 and X3, likewise, are games that if remade, their main draw is the technical upgrade (not that X3 couldn't stand to rethink some of its finer points, mind you).  When you get into the PS1 games, it's different.  The focus then shifts from how you can make it prettier (since the PS1 sprites were pretty damn awesome and the games featured streamed audio already) and more to how you can fine-tune the storyline.  Clarify things that, looking back, were not made as clear to the player as they should have been.

I know everyone and their dog says this, but in any game in which playable Zero is viable, I'd love to see co-op.  It would be ESPECIALLY helpful in X4, where involving both characters would allow us to establish a more "official" depiction of the events.

I'll touch on X6 just because I'm sure it'll be a hot-button issue: I'd leave the core level design EXACTLY as it is.  However, I would make the following changes: Numero uno, you are able to freely exit any stage, any time.  Also, venturing into an alternate route comes with the option to return to the point at which the stage splits, so that if you get stuck you don't have to start over.  At first, Nightmare effects are triggered by simple stage visits as usual, but if applicable there would be an option to override them at the Stage Select screen.  You can choose from the Stage Select screen to enable a Nightmare Effect stemming from any level you have already beaten, or if you are returning to a level that you have already beaten, you can choose to play it in its "neutral" state with no effects active (note that by "beaten", I am referring to defeating its Investigator, not the alternate route).

Posted on: September 15, 2013, 11:02:57 PM
Having the ability to play Colonel sounds interesting and hopefully could shed some light on what going through Repliforce's heads, though how's Colonel side of the story going to end? I'm not sure if Iris will take losing Zero as well as losing her brother, but that could make for an interesting "what if" scenario.
Indeed it would, I've spent many-an-hour thinking of that one.  Thing is, I wouldn't have it stem from a "play as Colonel" mode.  Rather, I would fix it so that fulfilling certain criteria as Zero cuts his game short, so to speak...

If we were to go with the whole "package more than one game remake together" idea (or for that matter just make one game able to read the save data of previous entries--might be nice to overlap armor/weapons that way), triggering said scene would have huge repercussions in the X5 story.

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2013, 06:42:00 AM »
Oh Shell, you can just say it...

MHX4 = Playable Iris!  8D

Offline AquaTeamV3

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2013, 06:42:38 AM »
Wasn't Zero already (sorta) playable in X3?

Yeah, but he was implemented so terribly that it almost doesn't count.  It's pretty sad when your best use in the game is as a physics exploit.

I'd rather Zero be fully playable so the game designers won't feel the need to cut every stage into 3rds.  Maybe give him some unique moves, like a mix of some new stuff and his Xtreme 2 moves.

Quote
One thing I would like to see in a remake of X3-6 is not just making the boss A.I. better, but give them some new attacks. Something that make old boss fights from the originals feel new to veterans while making them more exciting to new-comers. Here's an example from DuckTales and DuckTales: Remastered: The boss at the Amazon level really only had one major attack, and that was thwamping Scrooge McDuck. In DuckTales: Remastered, not only did it still have the same attack pattern from the original, but also an earthquake attack and it tries to use the shifting pillars in the room to make pancakes out of you.

That was one of the things I liked the most about MHX.  Old bosses had new variations on old attacks, or in some cases new moves altogether.  I think X3 in particular needs this the most, since the bosses themselves have very little variation in their attacks and are extremely easy to manipulate.  Vile in particular was a huge dissapointment with his simple self.

Quote
Having the ability to play Colonel sounds interesting and hopefully could shed some light on what going through Repliforce's heads, though how's Colonel side of the story going to end? I'm not sure if Iris will take losing Zero as well as losing her brother, but that could make for an interesting "what if" scenario.

I was thinking that it could be a what-if like Vile's.  Maybe either you kill Zero, or there's some twist ending where Zero/X kills you and Colonel realizes that Repliforce was wrong before he dies...there's a lot of places you could go with it.

Remakes are always a balancing act in terms of what to "fix" and what to leave alone.  MHX committed the cardinal sin of watering down your main weapon (after capsule upgrade, that is) and thus competes with rather than compliments its predecessor.  But at least it handled the screen ratio shift better than Powered Up did.

Eh, to me that was a small price to pay for how broken you become otherwise.  Having access to the buster while having a special weapon is a huge buff to X's game.  Having access to the Hadouken while under the protection of charged Chameleon Sting is even sillier.

Quote
I'll touch on X6 just because I'm sure it'll be a hot-button issue: I'd leave the core level design EXACTLY as it is.  However, I would make the following changes: Numero uno, you are able to freely exit any stage, any time.  Also, venturing into an alternate route comes with the option to return to the point at which the stage splits, so that if you get stuck you don't have to start over.  At first, Nightmare effects are triggered by simple stage visits as usual, but if applicable there would be an option to override them at the Stage Select screen.  You can choose from the Stage Select screen to enable a Nightmare Effect stemming from any level you have already beaten, or if you are returning to a level that you have already beaten, you can choose to play it in its "neutral" state with no effects active (note that by "beaten", I am referring to defeating its Investigator, not the alternate route).

I dunno, at least a couple of stages could stand to be looked into.  The donuts of doom in Blaze Heatnix's stage need to go (or have their boss fights re-worked), likewise they could do without the impossible-to-cross-with-Normal X pit in both the Museum and Gate's Lab.  Speaking of Gate's Lab, I'd actually be okay if the pit was still there on the condition that you can go to the stage select screen after defeating High Max.  X6 is kind of a nice game as-is, but I just think a few tweaks here and there would make it at least a little more accessible.
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Offline Nexus

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2013, 07:07:38 AM »
I know everyone and their dog says this, but in any game in which playable Zero is viable, I'd love to see co-op.  It would be ESPECIALLY helpful in X4, where involving both characters would allow us to establish a more "official" depiction of the events.

I dunno how viable co-op would be, in the sense that the level design for the series probably wouldn't work very well for X and Zero running around at the same time (lolsteamroll). However, I really wouldn't mind a return of the character-switch system from Xtreme 2/X7/X8, maybe refined a bit or with levels given character-specific routes (akin to Sonic 3 & Knuckles; playing Sonic can get you one or two routes through a level, Knuckles could break walls to get through to a different route entirely) to temporarily disable switching so that there's some challenge that you can't just switch the other in to rip through.

It always annoyed me how X and Zero literally just pick who goes off to handle a Maverick one at a time and there's nothing that could ever be done about it until X7/X8

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2013, 07:34:46 AM »
likewise they could do without the impossible-to-cross-with-Normal X pit in both the Museum and Gate's Lab.

They're not impossible, they're just tough.

I'm going to say a major problem with X5 and X6 was that they started you out with armor. If an MHX 5 or 6 were made I'd actually like to see them do away with bringing back the armor from the previous game.

Offline Arikado

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2013, 08:15:50 AM »
I'm pretty sure they're impossible with normal X/Shadow armor without the Hyper Dash.

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2013, 01:23:31 PM »
I dunno about Gate's Lab, but there's a common block configuration in the Museum stage that is impossible to cross as regular X.  I've tested it to death on emulators.
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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2013, 05:07:05 PM »
As far as X6 goes, certain stages or segments of- would have to be completely reworked.

Particularly Blaze Heatnix. Heatnix is an unfinished stage, plain and simple.

Make the entire stage like the vertical shaft after the first miniboss, and you've got a great unique stage. it's ok to keep a donut here or there, but not to the extent they did it.

Shield Sheldon needs an actual stage. Let's just put that down. If you ignore his alt route, his stage is pitifully short.

Infinity Mijinion could probably use some more stage himself, since it's all just one big miniboss fight. Since it's a weapons R&D place, how about having us fight other super weapons and the like. Illumina could be the last one we fight. Like, show off Illumina at the start like it already does, but not have us fight it until the end. Add some platforming world building [parasitic bomb] in there. Yknow, different areas, not just the one ramp.

Gate's lab doesn't need any changing, except maybe getting rid of that stupid jump everyone bitches about.

Also, The [tornado fang] was with this bit in the boss rush stage..?



Was this supposed to be a misleading path? Why would anyone fall for it? The one without the spikes will obviously be more appealing.


make that pit actually do something. Either extend the stage a bit and switch it up so the more difficult path is the real one and the other one is bogus, or put some kind of bonus in there, like a life up or something.

Also, either give Sigma's first form a boss theme, or give the stage a new stage theme. having the stage theme play for Sigma was pretty bad.
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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2013, 06:29:47 PM »
I'm not too keen on the idea of remaking Xtreme 2... For one, I get this feeling that they'd limit the Ultimate Buster to one shot at a time or something equally boring.
For another, part of the charm is how amazingly action-packed it is for a gameboy game, and zipping around as tiny-sprited Zero with airdashes and beamsaber spam probably wouldn't seem nearly as neat with 3D grafix.
Then again I'm probably weird for feeling like there's something wrong with 2.5D melee combat - just don't get the same feeling from Zero's slashes in X8 as compared to, say, X6.

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2013, 06:36:01 PM »
I'm not too keen on the idea of remaking Xtreme 2... For one, I get this feeling that they'd limit the Ultimate Buster to one shot at a time or something equally boring.
For another, part of the charm is how amazingly action-packed it is for a gameboy game, and zipping around as tiny-sprited Zero with airdashes and beamsaber spam probably wouldn't seem nearly as neat with 3D grafix.
Then again I'm probably weird for feeling like there's something wrong with 2.5D melee combat - just don't get the same feeling from Zero's slashes in X8 as compared to, say, X6.

X8 in general felt very floaty to me, like there was no weight behind the characters whatsoever, and Zero's combos weren't exempt from this issue. You'd have to mimic the play control and 'impact pause' with some good animations to make it feel as well as it did during the PSX-era / akin to Xtreme 2.

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2013, 06:48:09 PM »
That and the fact that Zero's dash in X8 royally sucked, even compared to the other characters in the same game.

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Offline AquaTeamV3

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2013, 07:34:30 PM »
That and the fact that Zero's dash in X8 royally sucked, even compared to the other characters in the same game.

I think it kinda worked for Zero, though.  They were trying to push him as more of a power character than X; sacrificing a little mobility for a greater ability to cover the space around him with hitboxes.  Plus by canon (if CM's stats are any indication) Zero's a little slower than X, but he hits harder.  I felt like X8 was one of the better playable Zero representations we got.  He was pretty flexible in that he could cancel in and out of a lot of his moves.
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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2013, 03:14:08 AM »
Disagree.  Zero is typically more mobile than X, at least to start.  X may or may not overtake him through the use of his armors, but if Zero requires any additional drawbacks besides his lack of long-range attacks, then it's usually defense.

You'd have to mimic the play control and 'impact pause' with some good animations to make it feel as well as it did during the PSX-era / akin to Xtreme 2.
To put it another way, it could be said that "2.5D Zero attacks" were done considerably better in TvC than they were in X8.

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2013, 03:41:08 AM »
Im under the impression they shortened his dash so you dont run into enemies like an asshat. Seeing as Zero has less defense than X or Axl this is a good thing. Also I would say Zero isnt any more mobile than X or even quicker movement wise. Just a tad more acrobatic.

I feel like Im the only one who wants Sigma to be playable in one of the games. At least for X4. Colonel would play like Zero and Iris just has that crappy ride armor. I admit Sigma going around fighting not X and Zero makes little sense however its a little more logical than Colonel going around killing his own team.

Personally Im glad they only made one remake of the X series. All that time and money could be spent on more interesting games like X9 or Zx3. The whole reason they even made Maverick Hunter was to go back to the beginning and see what made the original so outstanding. Making more would defeat the whole purpose.

Besides if they were to remake a game i suggest X7. That game had serious potential to push the X series out of the hardcore platformer genre and into a more public appeal.

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2013, 03:44:23 AM »
Again, Playable Iris needs to be a thing!  8)

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2013, 04:03:25 AM »
Besides if they were to remake a game i suggest X7. That game had serious potential to push the X series out of the hardcore platformer genre and into a more public appeal.
If they remake X7 I gotta suggest sticking to the 3D playing field.  Peer pressure would probably lead devs to do the opposite, though, but I really think the 3D areas had better "bones" than the 2D, even if the whole damn thing needed work.

Again, Playable Iris needs to be a thing!  8)
Damn straight it does.  Lately I've been envisioning her as a "double sword" character: Pick up the Z-Saber after the Zero-vs-Colonel battle goes badly for the former, and then swipe Colonel's sword after bitchslapping him before she gets into any "serious" fighting.  Colonel can then go down with the Final Weapon, making sure General is able to stop it and all, thus leading into an alternate X5 being Iris's game. 8)
(I've been thinking about this a bit too long, if you can't tell)

Posted on: September 16, 2013, 09:01:43 PM
I feel like Im the only one who wants Sigma to be playable in one of the games. At least for X4. Colonel would play like Zero and Iris just has that crappy ride armor. I admit Sigma going around fighting not X and Zero makes little sense however its a little more logical than Colonel going around killing his own team.
Double might make more sense, but honestly if you're going to play as any bad guy then you're just trying to out-Vile Vile.  I don't see it working out too well.

Iris's ride armor is out of the question unless she's supposed to die at the end of her campaign anyway; she can't use it without installing Colonel's chip and thus causing her own brain to collapse on itself.

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2013, 04:09:45 AM »
Damn straight it does.  Lately I've been envisioning her as a "double sword" character: Pick up the Z-Saber after the Zero-vs-Colonel battle goes badly for the former, and then swipe Colonel's sword after bitchslapping him before she gets into any "serious" fighting.  Colonel can then go down with the Final Weapon, making sure General is able to stop it and all, thus leading into an alternate X5 being Iris's game. 8)
(I've been thinking about this a bit too long, if you can't tell)

Oh we cannot stop there, Shell. How else would she play? How would she look in "Combat" mode? Can she combine the swords to form one double bladed sword?

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2013, 04:50:53 AM »
You know, I'm up for playable Iris. We could use more ladies from the X series doing the ass-kicking. :D

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2013, 04:58:43 AM »
She'd probably have to downsize that skirt, though, with how Tonka huge it is, if she wanted to fight like Colonel or Zero.  XD

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2013, 05:03:36 AM »
That skirt should allow for hovering and powerful Tablet-Smack dashes!

Offline AquaTeamV3

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2013, 05:32:30 AM »
Colonel would play like Zero and Iris just has that crappy ride armor.

Assuming they go the same route they went with Vile, Colonel could go a long way in becoming a playable character that's distinctly different from Zero.  Even though Vile primarily used his shoulder cannon in the X series boss fights, MHX's Vile mode gave him stuff like finger shot weapons and knee bombs.  Likewise, Colonel could be given a couple of other tricks aside from his saber (which he already uses as a close/long range hybrid weapon, separating him from Zero).  In anything else they can reverse-engineer his Battle Network self and hand him a spare cannon or some other typical military weapon.
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Offline Flame

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2013, 07:07:54 AM »
and knee bombs.
He already had those.

Those were his primary attack form, actually. The shoulder cannon is mostly for show outside of stunning you.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

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Re: Would a Maverick Hunter X2-6 have turned out well?
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2013, 07:24:11 AM »
He already had those.

Those were his primary attack form, actually. The shoulder cannon is mostly for show outside of stunning you.

Ah right.  I have the X8 battles burned into my head so much that I forgot how his X1 incarnation fought. XD
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