Author Topic: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?  (Read 5660 times)

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Offline Hypershell

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2012, 02:18:57 AM »
I'm not sure I follow how the Zero clips impact the whole "Is Rock X?" discussion.  But X is taller, lighter, and MHX made it absolutely clear that his mind is a blank slate, so um...yeah. 

Zero's purpose is simply to satisfy Wily's ego, which naturally means besting Light's crowning achievement, whoever that may be.  I personally am of the mentality that Wily's own ambitions probably shifted around over the course of Zero's construction (more to the point I believe that Quint's future is still valid by the whole predestined paradox logic, but that is complete speculation on my part), so I'd have a hard time saying that Zero "always" had any one specific purpose.

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Offline Gaia

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2012, 02:29:37 AM »
For the Quint case, Dr. Wily must've gotten lucky as Mega Man might've broke the unwritten hero rule #4 at the time, otherwise, Zero was made to counter anything that Dr. Light achives to fuel his own ego as I like to think the entire thing was played out in a Cain and Abel-like manner.
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So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

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Offline Ladd Spencer

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2012, 03:11:22 AM »
Remember the Wily Time Machine card in Capcom versus SNK Card Fighters? Pretty cool stuff.

Wily in Zero's dream in X4 is talking about X .

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Offline Flame

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2012, 03:31:37 AM »
I don't recall him having a rivalry with X.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Ladd Spencer

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2012, 09:49:07 PM »
Some super nerd told me this. I forget how it goes. X3's key, as-is X5.

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Offline Zan

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2012, 01:05:12 PM »
Quote
Does this prove or disprove anything? Wily having begun construction on Zero while Mega Man is still running around proves X is a separate robot from Mega Man. At least, that's how I've seen Bass' endings used in arguments. I was always under the impression that Zero's purpose was to destroy X from the very beginning.


Flame posted the videos in response to:

"I'm pretty sure Zero was made specifically to destroy X, right?"

Rock being X or not is a separate discussion. One to which we already have a clear undeniable answer.


Quote
Wily in Zero's dream in X4 is talking about X .

Wily: After him! He is my nemesis. Our rivalry is what gives me motivation in life. Now go!
Destroy him! That's an order.


"Him", "He", is in reference to Rock or X. "Our" to Dr. Right.

In regard to whether Zero's goal is to defeat Rock or X;
-The arcade games say he's to destroy Rock, Bass and take over the world.
-X3 says X knows his destiny is to do battle with Zero.
-X5 says Zero forgot what he must do (when he turned good), until he awakened and concluded he must destroy X.

As Hypershell said, there's a clear shift of focus - first and foremost because Zero never took over the world and instead was sealed away with a cognitive flaw.

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Offline Ladd Spencer

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2012, 09:28:38 PM »
I thought him and he referred exclusively to X, and that meant that X was under construction by the time the events of the arcade games were underway.

Does Duo come back to Earth or is Power Fighters during the events of 8?

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Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2012, 09:32:19 PM »
Does Duo come back to Earth or is Power Fighters during the events of 8?

I think PF takes place sometime after 8.

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2012, 10:22:53 PM »
After he leaves? Or before Duo leaves his message with Proto Man? It's all very vague. It feels like placing DBZ movies on a timeline.

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Offline Zan

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2012, 05:21:44 AM »
Power Fighters occurs 6 months after any event in R8.

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Offline Hypershell

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2012, 01:07:37 AM »
For the Quint case, Dr. Wily must've gotten lucky as Mega Man might've broke the unwritten hero rule #4 at the time, otherwise, Zero was made to counter anything that Dr. Light achives to fuel his own ego as I like to think the entire thing was played out in a Cain and Abel-like manner.
IIRC (and I CANNOT source this; Zan may have better luck than me), the story goes that the Rock that Wily kidnapped was living a peaceful life with a genuinely reformed future-Wily.  However, future-Wily re-evaluated his views after encountering his past self, and the two conspired together to capture future-Rock.

Looking at Wily's actions in the X-series, most notably X5 and X6, it seems to me that Wily doesn't give a damn about dominating the world anymore (despite X5's flashback imagery).  Rather, it's all about the rivalry, X-vs-Zero, the finest of his works, and so forth.  He appears only when Zero's survival or Zero battling X are of concern.  It's also noticeable that in X5, Awakened Zero's ONLY concern is to destroy X, nothing else.

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Offline Flame

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2012, 02:39:48 AM »
After he leaves? Or before Duo leaves his message with Proto Man? It's all very vague. It feels like placing DBZ movies on a timeline.
Its not nearly that bad. It takes place, After 8. Not between 8 and the ending, where would you even get that idea?
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Gaia

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2012, 02:52:49 AM »
After he leaves? Or before Duo leaves his message with Proto Man? It's all very vague. It feels like placing DBZ movies on a timeline.

Uhh, many a DBZ movie is never mentioned in the manga (aside for a few), which is the original source, nor the OVAs were ever brought up by other characters in the anime (barring the Garlic Jr. filler saga), aside from a few further exploring the details of a once-proud warrior race's final moments and where Future Trunks originated from. THOSE MOVIES ALONE should be therefore considered canon.

Movies refrenced in games however is just modified plot to accompany the series' ever-growing roster. Hell, in some of the games you got to play as Hatchyack for cryin' out loud, and he was a VG-Only character! There's a thing called a "Side Story" (and to an extent, some games have a "what-if?" scenario. Same can be said for Power Battles, which would be a side story. A bonus round. A Gaiden, if you will.
Workshop/DA/YT/Photobucket なにかんがえてるの!?
So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

Yep, every time when someone mentions that game people get energized for an apparent reason whatsoever. It's like this everywhere else, trust me.

It got really messy to find my sprite and comic topic, so it's in my sig.

Offline Zan

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2012, 04:09:18 AM »
Quote
IIRC (and I CANNOT source this; Zan may have better luck than me), the story goes that the Rock that Wily kidnapped was living a peaceful life with a genuinely reformed future-Wily.  However, future-Wily re-evaluated his views after encountering his past self, and the two conspired together to capture future-Rock.

http://kobun20.interordi.com/2011/03/14/its-quintn-time/

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Offline Ladd Spencer

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2012, 09:33:40 PM »
Power Fighters occurs 6 months after any event in R8.
Its not nearly that bad. It takes place, After 8. Not between 8 and the ending, where would you even get that idea?
Because Duo is there? I guess that means Duo came back.

Uhh, many a DBZ movie is never mentioned in the manga (aside for a few), which is the original source, nor the OVAs were ever brought up by other characters in the anime (barring the Garlic Jr. filler saga), aside from a few further exploring the details of a once-proud warrior race's final moments and where Future Trunks originated from. THOSE MOVIES ALONE should be therefore considered canon.
Yes I know filler and movies aren't canon. TV specials ought not be considered as such either, technically. Nor is GT. But that's boring. It's more fun to try and place the movies. "This point in time barring these events." It's like a puzzle.

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Offline Flame

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2012, 09:38:40 PM »
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Because Duo is there? I guess that means Duo came back.
Do remember that between the destruction of Wily Tower and Duo leaving, Mega Man was unconscious. Wily tower collapsed, Duo rescued him and removed the Evil Energy from him, then before leaving, left Protoman a message for Rock. Rock wakes up and Light tells him Duo saved him. So when he is out there stargazing, protoshades shows up and tells him Duo's message. Mega Man 8-FIN.

Some time later, Duo comes back to Earth, I believe pursuing another alien energy source, that is mentioned in his ending, and he mentions how Light and Rock once saved his life.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Ladd Spencer

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2012, 09:54:14 PM »
And tells Bass that he sucks and Proto Man that he has a strong justice energy.

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