Author Topic: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?  (Read 5512 times)

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Offline Waifu

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Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« on: August 30, 2012, 06:37:24 PM »
In first game in the series,  Vile was a mercenary who didn't so much about the rebellion as much as he just wanted to fight X and Zero. Vile used to a battle robot working for the US army, he had defect in his brain the prevented from thinking rationally and often used incredibly violent methods to achieve his ends. Despite being technically more advanced than X, he was defeated and he had his mech destroyed prior to the fight. Vile appears again in Mega Man X3 after being revived by Doppler, Vile didn't care for Doppler and his cronies but he wanted his revenge on X and zero for beating him. Doppler did insert the virus to control him but it only served to make him more violent, he went off on his own to fight X.

Vile had a new mech called Goliath and believed him to be the one ace in the hole against X but at this point X is much stronger and he is more skilled, he was defeated and promised that he will haunt X until the day he dies. Vile appears in X8 and he seems to have a bit of a vendetta against the heroes, he is defeated again but he might come back sometime soon.

Vile is a mercenary but he really isn't as evil as Sigma and does things for his own benefit. In a narrative sense, he is the anti Mega Man X whereas X is a completed Reploid who fights for justice and peace, Vile is a violent reploid with a defect who wouldn't hesitate shoot anyone for money. Vile is also based of Boba Fett where they were both mercenaries who had the infamous 'T' helmet and they worked for the big bad. Vile is evil but he is more like Forte/Bass in that he appears to more of blood knight than a stright up villain. What do you think, is Vile an anti hero or villain?

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2012, 07:49:25 PM »
He's more of a classic "rival" archetype in a sense. All Vile wanted to do ever was prove that he was better than X (this is shown as Vile taunts him numerous games mocking his limitless potential). Though, he does show up in every few games (resuming his role as Intro Boss in Xtreme 1), so not much is known about him and how did the programming error manage to slip through without one's notice, as a certain red reploid stole most of the spotlight and we would've gotten intresting character development from both ends if Vile Mode came sooner.
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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2012, 08:47:44 PM »
X isn't a Reploid. Reploids are all the robots replicated based on a loose understanding of X' design. That's where the flaw comes into play. Lots of people call X and Zero Reploids, but that's because they don't know any better.

Vile is based on Bubba Zanetti from Mad Max. Keiji Inafune said it in an interview.

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Offline Flame

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2012, 11:03:30 PM »
Since when was Vile a Mercenary?

Quote
US army
Maverick Hunters

Quote
prevented from thinking rationally
He thinks quite rationally. The defect makes him overly violent and causes him to revel in destruction. It doesnt make him stupid.

Quote
Despite being technically more advanced than X
By what standards? X is more advanced than almost any Reploid in the X series. What Vile had, was a nearly indestructible military vehicle to parade around in and pummel X with while the former had not yet reached full power, and was relatively new to the combat/war business while he himself was a pro build SOLELY for that.

Also, as of MHX, it's not even totally indestructible. He defeats X with a feint, I believe?

Quote
Doppler did insert the virus to control him
Did he? I dont remember. I remember Vile being totally off the hook after having been killed by X, but I dont remember the Virus...

Quote
and he seems to have a bit of a vendetta against the heroes,
Didnt seem so. X3, was a vendetta. X8? not so much. He was pretty much Sigma's lapdog at this point. After all, only reason he follows Sigma is that Sigma lets him destroy as he pleases, and it gives him the chance to fight and try to kill X.

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Vile is a mercenary
No he isnt. Dynamo is a mercenary.with Sigma's. (That is destroying X and Zero) Sigma doesnt pay him,

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he is the anti Mega Man X
Actually, I would argue Sigma is the Anti Mega Man X. He is Dr. Light's worst nightmare cone true. Has a total lack of empathy whereas X is hampered by his own. Is cold, manipulative and heartless, whereas X is war, friendly, and caring.

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who wouldn't hesitate shoot anyone for money.
But he does not work for money! he doesnt shoot for money, he shoots because he enjoys it.

Quote
Vile is evil but he is more like Forte/Bass in that he appears to more of blood knight than a stright up villain.
Return X fills the Bass role more than Vile does.

Quote
blood knight

He's more of a cross between this and Psycho for Hire to me, just, yknow, not for hire.

To me, Vile's role is kinda more a radical free agent, in the way MHX seems to want him to be. He isnt quite Sigma's right hand man, but he works with Sigma due to overlapping goals, and because Sigma gives him free reign to do whatever the hell he wants as long as he helps him.

Quote
X isn't a Reploid.
Under the definition of Reploid, he is one. counting X and Zero as Reploids or not, is solely an arbitrary rule for giving recognition to Sigma as the first Robot created by Dr. Cain from X's design. Therefore, if you discount X and Zero as Reploids, Sigma would be the first Reploid.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Karasai♪

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 02:21:47 AM »
Vile was more of the Rival in the first game, but after that he pretty much became a Villain.

Offline Ladd Spencer

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 02:46:25 AM »
Under the definition of Reploid, he is one. counting X and Zero as Reploids or not, is solely an arbitrary rule for giving recognition to Sigma as the first Robot created by Dr. Cain from X's design. Therefore, if you discount X and Zero as Reploids, Sigma would be the first Reploid.
Uh, the word itself means that they were the robots made to replicate X. X and Zero are robots, like Mega Man era robots. I'm sure Zan can provide a source for that. I think I read it in one of his informative walls of text somewhere, actually.

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Offline Flame

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 05:29:52 AM »
The word has never been defined as such, however. The term Reploid/Repliroid refers to robots created with the ability to think and reason on a Human level.

From the Zero collection timeline:

Quote
"Reploids… those are robots made a time long ago who were near human and had limitless potential… Given individuality by means of advanced technology, the Reploids worked for humans and were meant to be the greatest ally to walk alongside mankind…

And from the same site, the profiles, on X in particular:

Quote
The Legendary Blue Messiah" X
The legendary blue repliroid and ruler of Neo Arcadia who symbolizes "infinite potential" and a "purveyor of justice" for all.

The term is used to refer to any advanced Robot with Human level intelligence. It was never used to refer to replication.

Also, like ive said before, Reploids are not Replicas of X. the Black Copy Zero, is a replica. Nightmare Zero, is a Replica. (clone, to be more precise, but you know,) Copy X, is a Replica. Zero's Copy body in the Zero series, is a Replica.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2012, 07:53:38 AM »
It was, before Inti went and [tornado fang]'d everything up. But then they retconned it.

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Offline Flame

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2012, 08:28:23 AM »
The meaning of Reploid? No, not really.

There is no single source, game or otherwise that I know, that names Reploids as anything than what the term is used as in the X series, which is advanced Robots capable of thought on a Human level.

Even the Cyber Mission book, Rokkuman X Saibaa Misshon Kanzen Kouryaku Gaido says:

"If you exclude X and Zero as Repliroids, Sigma, whom Dr. Cain created was the first Repliroid. "

Notice it says IF you exclude X and Zero as Reploids. It does not automatically discount them as Reploids, but uses it as a point to show that Sigma was the first Robot to come out of Cain's study of X.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2012, 12:04:12 PM »
Quote
Did he? I dont remember. I remember Vile being totally off the hook after having been killed by X, but I dont remember the Virus...

From the Mega Man X3 manual:
Vile - Once a top henchman for Sigma, Vile was destroyed at the hands of Mega Man X and Zero.
When Doppler became virus-infected, its' first move was to revive Vile. When Vile became infected
with the same computer virus, he went completely nuts. Doppler could not control Vile. Vile went
on a rampage, and has become so stricken with hatred for Mega Man X and Zero, who knows what his
intentions are?


Meanwhile the VAVA Mk.2 toy manual makes little mention of it:

VAVA MK-II figure
(X's Fatal Rival)
During the past two *sigma* Riots, X kept fighting and fighting the strong enemies. X Sometimes felt angry and sometimes felt sad, but in order to keep peace X had to continue to fight. Those irregular criminals hate X very much,so they keep challenging X. In the mean time, VAVA - once defeated by X - rebuilds its body and comes back to fight X for revenge. When can X rest in peace?
Used to be the Irregular Hunter of Team No.17 with X. Defeated by X when joined the *sigma* Riot. It rebuilds its body and increase its power in order to revenge. It was very stubborn and aggressive. Sometimes it will even attack its partner. It is called the "crazy hunter".


Quote
Uh, the word itself means that they were the robots made to replicate X. X and Zero are robots, like Mega Man era robots. I'm sure Zan can provide a source for that. I think I read it in one of his informative walls of text somewhere, actually.
Quote
It was, before Inti went and [tornado fang]'d everything up. But then they retconned it.

That's actually the greatest piece of fanon that ever snuck into the series.

It stems from a misinterpretation of this line:


November 22nd
With X's help I have completed my first "Reploid". Although I don't completely understand how all of Dr. Light's systems works, I was able to make some minor modifications and the Reploid seems to be functioning perfectly. His strength and intelligence seem limitless and he is fullyable to make his own decisions. In fact, we got into our first argument. How intriguing!

11/22
With Rockman X as a reference, I’ve completed the first robot “Repliroid.”
It doesn’t mean I completely understand how the system Dr. Light built operates.
I tried making a few small revisions to the system.
Thereupon, the Repliroid became fully functional.
The Repliroid has unlimited strength and intelligence, and seems fully able to make decisions.
The Repliroid can even debate.
I actually debated it.
What a splendid robot it is.


As noted in the original English script, it's HIS first Repliroid. Not necessarily the first ever. He is however the one to coin the term.

X Compendium adds the following, corroborating what the Cyber Mission guide said:

Sigma:
Using the data from the blue robot called X as his base, Dr. Cain manufactures Sigma. A robot born with the highest abilities, without comparison from all prior robots. The general term for that robot became known as "repliroid."


Now, most people get hung up on "X as base/reference." But that's just one way of saying Repliroids are robots that mimic humans. Just think about it! The very thing that gives all Repliroids their humanity is inheriting X's ability to worry:

A repliroid which possesses a suffering circuit,
in regards to a society where humans and repliroids coexist,
so as to be biased towards neither side,
it is fated always to worry continuously as to which side it should stand upon.


It is for this very reason that neither Capcom nor Inti shy from considering both X and Zero Repliroids. For all intents and purposes, they're identical in function. And as far as appearances go? Zero confused both Roll and Rock Voulnutt for Repliroids too. Cause you know, in a world where only two types of robot exist (Mechaniroid and Repliroid), do you really think they're better classified as Mechaniroids? The only alternative we have is to use RMO's Humaroid term.

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Offline Ladd Spencer

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2012, 02:15:56 PM »
So, the source for Zero having been constructed in response to X' construction is X4, right? Did Wily develop his Reploid caliber brain himself separately and concurrently with Light developing X', or is that never covered?

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Offline Flame

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2012, 06:24:57 PM »
Well he didnt steal the blueprints from Light, at any rate. Do note that Wily is just as genius as Light. Remember he made Bass, who has a pretty darn advanced AI. Wily developed his own super advanced AI on the same level as X's, most likely, as part of his whole big plan to create a Super robot to defeat Rock, Bass, and help him take over the world, one more advanced than anything he had ever made before. Though I dont think any particular source covers the nitty gritty details about particular stuff like his AI.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2012, 07:42:43 PM »
RZOCW seems to implicate Zero being equipped with the same AI as X. I reckon he works that way because of his unique integration with the Sigma Virus, of which the "true form/essence" IS the Suffering Circuit.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 12:42:16 AM by Zan »

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2012, 10:01:23 PM »
his whole big plan to create a Super robot to defeat Rock, Bass, and help him take over the world
I'm pretty sure Zero was made specifically to destroy X, right?

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Offline Flame

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2012, 10:50:53 PM »
I'm pretty sure Zero was made specifically to destroy X, right?

(go to 1:11)




EDIT:

And before Zan or Hyper beat me to it, since I forgot earlier-

Excerpt from the Zero Collection timeline

Quote
1XX years ago
    The birth of Zero

    Zero was produced by Dr. Wily, who schemed at taking over the world. But he contained a flaw in his cognitive program that made him violent and unwilling to obey instructions, so Dr. Wily himself sealed Zero in a capsule.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2012, 01:14:55 AM »
RZOCW seems to implicate Zero being equipped with the same AI as X. I reckon he works that way because of his unique integration with the Sigma Virus, of which the "true form/essence" IS the Suffering Circuit.
There's a world of difference between Zero's AI and X's AI, but saying the two are equally sophisticated is fair, I think.

Thing is, according to the Zero Collection website (which I must admit is the only way to make sense of the Z1 statements of the virus turning Zero good), Zero's AI as it was originally constructed was faulty, and the virus was meant to correct it.

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Offline Waifu

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2012, 08:43:13 AM »
Hold on, in the real world viruses pretty much do the opposite as they are designed to destroy programs rather than help them. How can the virus turn Zero good? Awakened Zero was a complete monster who wanted to destroy X and the rest of the world.

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2012, 06:33:07 PM »
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2012, 06:55:53 PM »
Hold on, in the real world viruses pretty much do the opposite as they are designed to destroy programs rather than help them. How can the virus turn Zero good? Awakened Zero was a complete monster who wanted to destroy X and the rest of the world.

A computer virus is a program that makes an undesired, unauthorized, task or change to another program. The target program could be anything, including but not limited to; OS, OS platform software (things that run on an OS), firmware, and everything between.

It doesn't necessarily damage or destroy programs. It could be as simple as modifying the input chain to log keystrokes. It could even create just a small settings tweak, to make the computer slower. In some cases even, enslave a computer to do a task the user may not want, or is completely unaware of. For example, there are some people who create small viruses planted in many many computers. They use these computers to carry out DDOS (Direct Denial of Service) attacks (basically flood websites with too many requests to operate) for various reasons including but not limited to; protesting, demonstration, digital hostage taking, blackmail, and cyber attacks against agencies and governments.

A virus is virtually no different than any other program, except for it's intentions. This is what makes virus protection such a tricky, and fairly unreliable, thing.

The Maverick Virus meets the true real world classification for a computer virus quite easily.

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Offline Waifu

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2012, 07:05:33 PM »
Then why haven't they develop some sort of counter to it? I know it may not be possible what *cough* plot armor *cough* but still you think that they have a general idea of what the Maverick Virus is capable of enough to make a counter strategy.

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2012, 08:15:41 PM »
Consider this virus is a living entity. Mainly Sigma. And it is powerful enough and smart enough that virus vaccines eventually become obsolete.

Doppler made an Antivirus program which either he or Zero use on Sigma's Viral essence in X3 to erase it. (depending which ending you have)

Despite this, Sigma returns in X4.

In X5, they speak of Virus vaccines again.

There's even a chip item in X5 called virus buster, which I assume is some kind of antiviral program which is attached to X/Zero's weapons.

There's also the matter of the Virus being ridiculously widespread and present. It was spread across the world in X2 from the Central Computer, then the Earth was drenched in it in X5. (enough to make it glow purple, might I add-)

It's a virus that overcomes vaccines, and cannot be fully destroyed because it is everywhere. And even when Sigma died they had a problem with it, since it basically became a snake without a head, and probably became rampant. They had to basically reverse engineer a reverse-Sigma Virus to counter it effectively. That is, a sentient program which utilizes the same kind of program rewriting, but to revert viral infections.

TL;DR, they do make vaccines, and probably constantly. But the Sigma Virus overcomes them with time because it's just that bad a bug. Vaccines are not a suitable replacement for X's perfect Virus countermeasures. And even then, while it may not be able to corrupt him and his program, X still takes physical damage from the virus when enough of it in high enough concentrations enter his systems.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2012, 09:49:49 PM »
Given what the Maverick Virus is at it's core basics, a 'living' energy embodiment that can transmit without a physical body, it is possible the virus isn't stopped by mere virus protection.

I do believe Megaman Zero touched upon this subject as well explaining that the Mother Elf, the Maverick Virus anti-body, had to rewrite the reality of the virus out of existence. It could be that there was no other protection against the virus,and it's damages are irreversible.

It could be that the virus changes itself, as Flame noted, it has had a few counter measures already which seems to be of no use for the next game. It's very well possible that the virus actively mutates.

You can think of this in terms of Star Trek, where the Borg calibrate their shielding to block the frequency of the federation phaser weapons. The federation keep changing the frequency of their phasers over and over, to remain effective against them. The same concept applies to the virus, getting around it's counter measures.

This is all theory though. I honestly can't remember what the exact wordings were when it was discussed in Megaman X, and Zero series.

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2012, 12:49:34 AM »
It'd say it's a pretty darn logical theory, given that research into "vaccines" for the Sigma Virus (not entirely appropriate wordage, there) stretch all the way from X3 to XCM.

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2012, 01:51:15 AM »
I don't really like the whole idea of the Sigma Virus and Cyber Elves transcending reality in order to serve the narrative. It's such a ridiculous leap of technology and physics for me that I refuse to suspend my disbelief for it. Plus, I've never really liked cyber elves period. As a narrative element or a gameplay mechanic. That it's a logical offspring of the already impossible Maverick/Sigma Virus isn't much of a surprise to me.

But anyways, Vile! He strikes me as a chaotic-evil character, but that's already occurred to everyone, so the question remains why or what's the cause. Assuming Reploids are effectively equal analogues to humans, I'd trace it back to the same rough parallels of those systems in humans that determine a psychological profile: nature and nurture. In Reploid terms, how was Vile built, and how does that determine Vile's responses to and manipulations of his surroundings. Considering he was "made to be a war machine," his origins and the goal guiding his construction was just that: war. So try and integrate a machine built for war into a position as a Maverick Hunter. [tornado fang] viruses; he couldn't adapt well enough to that new surrounding, or his new responsibilities. Or he refused to, because he'd rather just be a ravel rouser, whether he realizes it or not. He doesn't care. He just wants to be the perfect war machine and be recognized as such. Either that, or he wants to live his life as a soldier, whether in command or serving under the command of a likeminded soldier: Sigma.

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Re: Vile/VAVA: Anti Hero or Villain?
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2012, 07:17:57 PM »

(go to 1:11)



Does this prove or disprove anything? Wily having begun construction on Zero while Mega Man is still running around proves X is a separate robot from Mega Man. At least, that's how I've seen Bass' endings used in arguments. I was always under the impression that Zero's purpose was to destroy X from the very beginning.

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