Author Topic: Why wasnt X5 the last game?  (Read 5079 times)

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Offline Hypershell

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Re: Why wasnt X5 the last game?
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2012, 06:13:48 AM »
Indeed.  While I personally love X6 to the point of it being my favorite main-series game, I love for the fact that it is different (and yes, for the fact that it corrected a great deal of what X5 tried and ultimately failed to do).  Not only would the novelty wear off if the entire series were that way, but it would surely doom the franchise, because I can recognize the difference between my personal taste and what sells.  If anyone calls X6 "bad" or "broken", I will argue with them to hell and back.  However, I acknowledge that it is not approachable.  Even though it DOES play on the key thematic strengths of the Mega Man series (open structure and growing stronger), it does so to such an extreme that it throws off the typical balance, alienating all but the most dedicated fans, and games like that make attracting a new audience virtually impossible.

There's a reason I keep calling X6 the "Lost Levels" of Mega Man X.  You know the big stink over Nintendo of America thinking that SMB2J was too difficult for the mass market?  THEY WERE RIGHT.  The only reason people like it is because they were told they can't have it.  The old Tom Sawyer fence mentality.  X6, not unlike Zelda II, doesn't have that benefit.  It is not a game that does, or should, direct the series.  It is, rather, a game that treats long-time fans to a unique challenge that they will not find elsewhere in the series.  For those who are up to the task, such an experience is irreplaceable.

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Offline Treleus

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Re: Why wasnt X5 the last game?
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2012, 05:24:45 AM »
I mostly agree with you, except that I truly think X6 is designed poorly, and it's partly from whence arises the absurdly addictive difficulty that's managed to attract a cult following. It is truly the "Lost Levels" of Mega Man X, and that's one of the few arguably positive distinctions I can bring myself to acknowledge about it. As for why it's designed badly, I'll give a few examples, but before I do, I'll note that while the Nightmare System is ultimately one of the biggest reason people hate this game, it had potential to be something much better and much less stupid. It was a decent idea on paper. No reason it couldn't have succeeded at least as well as the similar mechanic in X1, so I won't focus on it right now. Here are my problems with four of the stages, for starters, (assuming I'm playing as either armored X or Zero) along with any good things I have to say about them:

(click to show/hide)

The best compliment I can give to X6 is that it probably had the most interesting boss fight ever concocted: Gate. What a brilliant fight. You can't damage him just by shooting him. You have to use his weapons against him. It's a truly sublime variation on the theme of acquiring and using boss weapons, but more than that, the fight is all about strategy. You can't bull-rush him. You have to be meticulous, and you have to make him go where you want, not the other way around. Unfortunately, I believe the game that is X6 failed Gate, Nightmare System and everything.

Is X6 better than X5? Well, it's definitely more special and memorable than X5, and where X5 fell short, it did improve. However, I might go so far as to say the stages in X5 were better designed. Yeah, the parts system sucked, the whole catastrophe mechanic with the Eurasia thing sucked (but like the NS, that also had potential to be good), the ending was dumb, and I personally think rehashing the X2 fight and ripping off Gamma at the end sucked save for the fancy new tune from the former, but overall it felt more playable. Albeit by a small margin, because the armors also don't deliver that well. Even though the Gaia Armor is like if X went to Tony Stark and asked to borrow his Hulkbuster, he's just too slow. I do like it better than the Shadow Armor, but that's me. I can see how the Shadow Armor succeeds where the Gaia Armor fails, but then the Shadow Armor has the piddly little energy shurikens where the big G has projectile-annihilating shots you can fire in quick succession. Now that's pretty satisfying.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: Why wasnt X5 the last game?
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2012, 12:19:16 AM »
Shadow Armor can annihilate projectiles in rapid succession if you equip it with the Ultimate Buster.  I do that ALL THE TIME against Nightmare Zero.

The same is true to a lesser extent of Blade's charged saber, but it's not as fast, and since Blade's charged buster blows so hard, yeah...

I'm especially fond of the High Max battles, believe it or not.  The notion of using your special and default weaponry for combination attacks is something that hasn't really been done otherwise.  He's definitely the most effective implementation of growing stronger to conquer a previously invulnerable enemy that the X-series has seen (in X1 you never really defeat Vile on your own, which kinda dampens your excitement at how badass you've become).

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Offline Gaia

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Re: Why wasnt X5 the last game?
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2012, 12:39:23 AM »
I had no trouble with the minibosses, since with X you can figure out a good distance from them (say, five pixels from their hitbox, dash away in the earlier fights and just pelt them, since they don't really do much and there aren't that many enemy mobs) until the last one in which you have to try not to get hit above lava.

Metal Shark Player I can agree with, [tornado fang] that stage. If it's gonna be used as a part of a torture chamber scenario, fine by me. But learning that Blizzard Wolfang's weapon works great on this stage makes me wonder why I didin't know about it sooner..

I did it the long way for the powerups in Turtloid's stage. For the boss himself, not easy going for a no-hit run.

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Offline Karasai♪

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Re: Why wasnt X5 the last game?
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2012, 12:46:45 AM »
Since I've recently beaten X6 "again" (and the other X games) on MMXC, I think that Gate's battle is hell.

complete hell. I died around 20 times, not lying.

My problems with the boss:

He can only hurt himself. Sure, this is a cool and unique idea, but there's some issues following...
The balls can hurt you too when they explode
There are like 5 platforms to step on, all are small and are close together
There's a pit below you
Gate's Dimension Slash takes a lot of health from you
The Dimension Slash can destroy platforms (the most is 2)
There's a pit below you
The platforms can kill you when they reappear

Oh, I did this with the Blade Armor btw, with Ultimate Buster equiped

Offline Flame

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Re: Why wasnt X5 the last game?
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2012, 12:59:37 AM »
Blade isnt the BEST armor to have to be honest, because of how it's buster works, but if you had Ultimate buster and Sub tanks you really shouldnt have had too much issue. Just be patient.

I find his most dangerous attack is actually the blue energy ball I think it was- which sucks you in towards it, which with the pit, can be dangerous. other than that i never had too much trouble with Gate.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Karasai♪

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Re: Why wasnt X5 the last game?
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2012, 04:30:01 AM »
Yeah I honestly dont like Blade Armor, I just used it because of the "leap of faith" section

Offline Treleus

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Re: Why wasnt X5 the last game?
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2012, 04:30:51 AM »
The orb I hated the most was the red one. Not only does it slow your movement down, but it also appears to slow your input as well. So if I want to jump or wall-kick, and Gate hits me, chances are I'll go careening into the pit because no matter how furiously I mash the buttons, nothing registers in time and I die. I think that could've used more work.

High Max I think is great in concept, but mediocre in execution thanks to shoddy hit boxes and repetition ad nauseam. It's also not clear why or how you get stronger outside of collecting new boss powers, it just happens, so my first instinct wouldn't be to shoot him with a charged shot to stun him, but rather just go straight for a boss power. That doesn't work, so I shoot him for the hell of it and notice it stuns him. Shooting him again doesn't do anything, so I have to make the leap to hit him NOW with a boss power, he falls down, and a tiny sliver of his health goes away--that is if I don't rage about the silliness about it and die, get an armor, come back and realize nothing has changed, and then ragequit until someone tells me what to do, like I'm playing an adventure game with obtuse logic.

After that, it's just formulaic repetition. Once you figure out the nonsensical method of actually damaging him, it's just a merciless rinse and repeat the instant his toe appears at the top of the screen and until he goes into his desperation mode. The situation in X1 at least had the grace of better storytelling and scene direction as well as gameplay to communicate the feeling of becoming stronger. Yeah, you couldn't really damage Vile in his new Ride Armor, but then neither could Zero, so you were both [tornado fang]'d until somebody did something drastic. Then you waste Vile and go on to waste everything else all the way up to Sigma. If I could change anything about that scene, it's to have X do visible damage to Vile if not wreck him. If he does the latter, though, then no heroic Zero sacrifice.

Huh. It would've made more sense if X did wreck Vile at least better than Zero did, but if he did, then Zero might not have decided to kamikaze on his mech. Interesting dilemma.

Offline Flame

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Re: Why wasnt X5 the last game?
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2012, 06:11:09 AM »
Yeah I honestly dont like Blade Armor, I just used it because of the "leap of faith" section

Protip: You dont need the air dash to pass that section, just the... Hyper Dash was it..? Hyper Dash or Jumper. dont remember which now.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Re: Why wasnt X5 the last game?
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2012, 02:05:04 PM »
Want to fix X6? Start by not allowing the player to stand up if they have to be ducking to not get killed by the instant death ceiling. Especially when gotten hit by a cheaply placed nightmare shooting auto aim orbs at you. Hell, it should make you auto duck as is, instead of just KILLING YOU OUTRIGHT.

If classic Megaman doesn't die when he is hit while sliding through a 1 block gap, X and Zero shouldn't for simply ducking in a 1 block gap. It is purely lazy programming.

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Offline Hypershell

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Re: Why wasnt X5 the last game?
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2012, 04:14:30 AM »
Protip: You dont need the air dash to pass that section, just the... Hyper Dash was it..? Hyper Dash or Jumper. dont remember which now.
Hyper Dash alone can make it, but having both it and Jumper makes it much easier.

You could also try to physics-exploit your way through with Speedster and Ultimate Buster, if you're feeling completely insane.

I don't know why the general gaming public can't figure out how to get the Shadow Armor through that stage.  I guess because X5 taught them that Parts are supposed to be useless.  It's one thing to be pissed because you got stuck the first time you tried it; it's quite another to never bother attempting a work-around.

Want to fix X6? Start by not allowing the player to stand up if they have to be ducking to not get killed by the instant death ceiling. Especially when gotten hit by a cheaply placed nightmare shooting auto aim orbs at you. Hell, it should make you auto duck as is, instead of just KILLING YOU OUTRIGHT.

If classic Megaman doesn't die when he is hit while sliding through a 1 block gap, X and Zero shouldn't for simply ducking in a 1 block gap. It is purely lazy programming.
Perhaps if they fixed that I might find Metal Shark Player's level less annoying.

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