Author Topic: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition  (Read 7016 times)

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Offline Megaman-RA

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Now before you say anything, at least hear me out with what I have to say.

Last year was a horrible year for Mega Man fans and let me tell you, a lot of us aren't pretty pleased about it. Legends fans got the worst and as a fan of that series, it really hurt. Nowadays, the three individual Legends games which are Mega Man Legends 1, Legends 2 and The Misadventures of Tron Bonne are worth a lot on sites like eBay especially when they are in a new condition. Also, Sven said it himself that these three games will not be on PSN due to some legal action which made me feel really upset at this. That's why I came up with an idea although at this point, it's becoming a lost cause. My idea is to see the three PS1 games be given an HD remake. A sort of Legends HD Collection if you may giving the three games a much needed improvement in the graphical department. Also, there can be added features such as access to the Old City, new side-quests that can give us access to new weapons, a boss rush mode and so on. I want to make it happen but I feel that not many want to see it happen. Because as Hideo Kojima has said it himself, PS1 games can't handle HD graphics.

Anyway, if this petition is a lost cause then I know it's for naught. But I realize that there should be a new petition being made and it would have to focus on one objection; Convince CAPCOM to Pay the Licensing Fee. Why? Because if they did that then we would have had Legends 1, 2 and Tron Bonne on PSN instead of doing this. I know that CAPCOM can make really bad decisions but if they would at least do something like that, then I feel that the fans would find CAPCOM to be more reliable. Of course, if they can't do that then it proves that CAPCOM just doesn't care and doesn't want to take risks. I'm done with what I have to say on this matter. I plan to make a new petition soon so for now, I'll provide a link to my petition which I think at this point is doomed to fail.

Operation Legends HD Collection

Later.

Offline Ruri

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2012, 03:18:55 AM »
you people are still going on about this legends crap?

Offline Phi

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2012, 04:56:26 AM »
you people are still going on about this legends crap?

Alright, as much as this statement was obnoxious, he has a point. But I only say this because this is CAPCOM we're talking about. We've went through shitloads of threads and argument topics about Capcom's performance as a company, and It's become overwhelmingly clear that they just don't give a [tornado fang] about MegaMan.

I mean, I'm all in for fan support and signing petitions/100,000 strong -- that was a terrific way to show a company that, "Hey! We really enjoy this franchise, please reconsider". A company. A gaming industry whose purpose should be to make their consumers want and love their product; and above all else, SATISFY their FANS/FOLLOWERS. Capcom is no such thing.

They're a shell of their former self, and we all know it. I will be shocked, in awe and crying all at the same time if they decide to pick up where they left off. Or a HD collection, which really, would be like further trolling anyway. But they won't, as much as we may hate to admit it. We're fans, we want to keep that dream alive. But that won't happen with Capcom at the handle.

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What we should be discussing is: What company should take license of the MegaMan franchise? How would that shape the Blue Bomber's legacy?

His future is not looking good. Not with Bad Uncle Capcom on his shoulder.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2012, 05:22:38 AM »
Well, it's not as if we haven't seen gaming miracles happen before.  I mean, who thought that Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom would ever see a release in the english-speaking world?

But yeah, pretty much every option on the table ranges from a snowball's to a snowflake's chances in Hell.



Archetype, Capcom isn't selling Mega Man.  They could have no interest in making any Mega Man game, ever, for another two decades, and they would still retain the brand as a matter of pride, of retro re-releases, and of merchandising.  Mega Man is still a gaming icon, he's just a gaming icon whose owner no longer believes him relevant to the mass market.  But they know that they can still milk him, and as long as they can, they won't let him go.



And yes, Archer, we're still "going on about it".  We all await the day that Capcom gives us some more significant news worthy of discussion in the LEGENDS FORUM.  Until that happens, we're left with their complete dickery of July 2011.  That's all we've got.  It's likely all we will have for the next several years.  You don't like it, steer clear of this section.



As for MMRA's idea, the sad reality is that Capcom has exceedingly little confidence in Mega Man and even less in the Legends series.  An HD game, even a remake of existing games, requires a hefty budget that I don't see Capcom willing to provide.  It's a shame, though, because a decade-old presentation needs a modern rework very badly.  But I just don't see Capcom putting that effort forward.  I mean, God, we all saw the gameplay videos of that iPhone X1 port, right?  Do we really want to chance Legends getting THAT level of treatment?

If I were to choose a plan of attack, I would go for a straight-emulated collection for a brick-and-mortar, multi-console release.  Legends 1, Legends 2, Misadventures, DASH2 Episode 1, and maybe some oddball Classic spinoff as bonus content (like Rockboard, Mega Man Soccer, or as unlikely as this may be, Super Adventure Rockman).  Legal issues may keep Capcom of America from putting PS1-era games up for digital distribution, but I don't believe for one second that Capcom couldn't reuse them for retail (otherwise MM8 and X4-X6 would not have reappeared in their respective Collections in the U.S.).

The problem of this approach is that it is unlikely to expand the series audience due to how dated the games are.  It's not just visuals, either; the entire Legends series comes from the very infancy of 3D gaming, back before the inherent rules of 3D control schemes and camera systems had been established.  Heck, the first Legends game predates Sony even establishing an analogue input for their controllers.  But in lieu of the full development that Capcom can't be assed to do anymore, it's the best shot we've got, and it's a cheap enough project that even the "vocal minority" that pays outrageous prices on Amazon and eBay should still be able to generate a decent return.  Besides, how much of a minority are we, anyway?  We don't know; nobody bothered to try and sell anything to us in the last 11 years.  And, being a compilation, there is the off chance that CoA could proceed with it on their own as they did with MMAC (since L3's cancellation CoJ has been far more draconian than CoA).  

The only alternatives as I see it are to either convince Capcom to release the prologue game currently gathering dust in their archives, or for another company with money and passion to pester the ever loving heck out of Capcom for a collaboration on the Legends series (CyberConnect2?).

But, as said, pretty much every option on the table is unlikely.  We're screwed, and we know it.  But there's always a chance, however small, so we'll always keep pushing.

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Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2012, 01:58:47 PM »
Quote
An HD game, even a remake of existing games, requires a hefty budget that I don't see Capcom willing to provide.

I was about to bring up that Devil May Cry 1-3 HD thing, but then I realized that it was probably just a back-up for if DmC fails (and that Capcom still cares about Devil May Cry).

Offline Align

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2012, 03:37:35 PM »
I wonder how many of the times when Capcom gave in to the fans it turned out profitable?

Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2012, 09:38:22 PM »
you people are still going on about this legends crap?

Go [tornado fang] yourself.

OK, now that we have that retard out of the way...

A Legends HD remake would probably have to be the best way to handle it. Sadly Legends has aged quite a bit. Legends 1 even more so than 2. An additional problem lays in another component as well. Legends cant be re-released without licensing issues. Not just is there the issue of paying someone else, it is WHO do you pay? The company may not exist anymore, offering a whole host of other issues.

I'm going to presume this is the voice acting for the USA version, since they re-released DASH and DASH2 on PSP a while back.

So the solution? Redo the gameplay, and possibly the voice acting? Capcom will never agree to this. It would soak up too much capital, especially when they don't Legends 3 as good enough to hit the shelves. Of course we all know it's just a power play against Inafune, but even so.

The only way Legends 1 and 2 can be re-released with high public interest and appreciation is if they updated both graphics and gameplay; gameplay especially in this case. I don't think it will happen, but I will be happy to support the idea regardless. It is the right solution if a re-release were to happen. Honestly, if they played their cards right, the Legends 3 engine could easily make a Legends 1 and Legends 2 remake (in 3D no less!).

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 09:55:23 PM »
I'm afraid petitions and endless debates about features & remakes are useless. Capcom wants $$$. Think about crowd funding. Start a project on something like Kickstarter, buy preorders for not-yet-existing game. Basically, acquire lots of money and shove it down Capcom's throat. They must be 100% sure that they will earn a certain amount.

But wait! This operation must be well organized, something like this will work only once. You'll need a trusted intermediary, media attention, and clear rules of the deal. For example:
Step 1: We gather money and hand it to the middleman
Step 2a: Capcom makes AND publishes new game, they get them monies
Step 2b: Capcom refuses, we get our money back
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: PROFIT

Offline Ruri

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2012, 12:07:42 AM »
Go [tornado fang] yourself.

OK, now that we have that retard out of the way...

Well now, there's no need to be rude.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2012, 01:47:21 AM »
Well, Archer, I disagree.

It's the Legends board, what did you think we were going to talk about?  We've been tip-toeing around our critics for the last six months and I'm getting a little tired of it.



An additional problem lays in another component as well. Legends cant be re-released without licensing issues. Not just is there the issue of paying someone else, it is WHO do you pay? The company may not exist anymore, offering a whole host of other issues.

I'm going to presume this is the voice acting for the USA version, since they re-released DASH and DASH2 on PSP a while back.
As I recall Capcom mentioned some time ago that it was not an audio issue.  Though it's hard to imagine what ELSE it could be.  The notion of a company involved in localization somehow or another going kaput is valid, in fact I recall such a topic coming up the last time Capcom commented.

But I have a hard time believing that they cannot re-release the games on physical media.  It has been brought up, in the context of PSN discussions, that contracts from that time do not allow for digital distribution (which may explain why the X4 phone ports haven't come here, not that we give a damn, but when they're willing to release that POS X1 flash remake...).  But we've already seen PS1-era games re-released in the Anniversary and X collections, so why is that suddenly an issue with Legends?

Recall if you will that the PSP ports were originally released on individual packages, not a collection/dual pack, which was IMHO a pretty bone-headed move on Capcom's part.

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Offline Megaman-RA

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2012, 06:17:07 AM »
I'm surprised that this has gathered some attention though I wonder if it'll be enough. I want to do what I can to spread the word but I need to find a starting point. That for me is all I need so I can prepare to promote.

Offline Sigma Zero X

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 04:45:13 AM »
Go [tornado fang] yourself.

OK, now that we have that retard out of the way...

A Legends HD remake would probably have to be the best way to handle it. Sadly Legends has aged quite a bit. Legends 1 even more so than 2. An additional problem lays in another component as well. Legends cant be re-released without licensing issues. Not just is there the issue of paying someone else, it is WHO do you pay? The company may not exist anymore, offering a whole host of other issues.

I'm going to presume this is the voice acting for the USA version, since they re-released DASH and DASH2 on PSP a while back.

So the solution? Redo the gameplay, and possibly the voice acting? Capcom will never agree to this. It would soak up too much capital, especially when they don't Legends 3 as good enough to hit the shelves. Of course we all know it's just a power play against Inafune, but even so.

The only way Legends 1 and 2 can be re-released with high public interest and appreciation is if they updated both graphics and gameplay; gameplay especially in this case. I don't think it will happen, but I will be happy to support the idea regardless. It is the right solution if a re-release were to happen. Honestly, if they played their cards right, the Legends 3 engine could easily make a Legends 1 and Legends 2 remake (in 3D no less!).

MegaMan Legends 3D Collection

Now that I think about it, I think that there are trademark/licensing issues that are possible.

Legends 1 has the "Action Man" comic book that must be given to Jim for the X Buster.  As some may know, Action Man is already trademarked by a different company.

Legends 2 has the quiz by the Mayor at Manda Island that has a lot of names of songs, titles, music artists, movie stars, and other famous people.  Many of these names are already trademarked.

Knowing the U.S. and its very vague trademark laws, as much as I hate to admit it, rereleasing Megaman Legends 1 and 2 is no longer an option.  Legends 1 and Legends 2 must be remade just like Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X was.  

Edit:  I changed the copyright parts to trademarks. 
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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 06:01:25 AM »
I highly doubt MML1 was barred from re-release because of the Action-Man thing (Its not like there is a character with his likeness, its just a name.)
The MML2 deal might be it, but again, I doubt it. Its not like the game has samples of the Songs included, its just names, unless some company is going to jump down Capcom's neck because "OMFG YOU USED OUR SONG NAME IN A TRIVIA THING I SUE YOU", it wouldn't be an issue.

Also I like how you pretty much posted the same thing in this and a necro'd thread that should've stayed dead. But I digress.

As its already been stated it was probably because of the voice acting.

Offline Sigma Zero X

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2012, 06:29:04 AM »
I highly doubt MML1 was barred from re-release because of the Action-Man thing (Its not like there is a character with his likeness, its just a name.)
The MML2 deal might be it, but again, I doubt it. Its not like the game has samples of the Songs included, its just names, unless some company is going to jump down Capcom's neck because "OMFG YOU USED OUR SONG NAME IN A TRIVIA THING I SUE YOU", it wouldn't be an issue.

Also I like how you pretty much posted the same thing in this and a necro'd thread that should've stayed dead. But I digress.

As its already been stated it was probably because of the voice acting.

The voice acting is indeed a major issue.

But the name thing might also be a factor. 

*Points to the Boxer in Street Fighter II whose name in Japan is M. Bison and name in the U.S. is Balrog due to the potential of Mike Tyson suing Capcom for name likeness. 

*Also points to the following thread concerning the Battle Network 6 Aquaman.EXE name to Spoutman: 

http://www.themmnetwork.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1563-an-inquiry-about-aquaman-exe-and-legal-issues-between-capcom-and-dc/

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Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2012, 02:47:44 PM »
I seem recall Earthbound being held back from Virtual Console citing references to songs and other things causing worry of law suits.

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2012, 04:56:19 PM »
The voice acting is indeed a major issue.

But the name thing might also be a factor. 

*Points to the Boxer in Street Fighter II whose name in Japan is M. Bison and name in the U.S. is Balrog due to the potential of Mike Tyson suing Capcom for name likeness. 

*Also points to the following thread concerning the Battle Network 6 Aquaman.EXE name to Spoutman: 

http://www.themmnetwork.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1563-an-inquiry-about-aquaman-exe-and-legal-issues-between-capcom-and-dc/



Okay, the Aquaman thing was just stupid. I don't understand why in MMBN4 (And MM8, as well) it was fine but MMBN6 came out and DC goes "NO [tornado fang]ing WAY", that made absolutely no sense to me and still doesn't.

The M. Bison thing was probably a big deal, but its not like they took the character out/barred SF2 from release. They just did a small name swap.

Offline Megaman-RA

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2012, 08:39:00 PM »
Now that I think about it, I think that there are trademark/licensing issues that are possible.

Legends 1 has the "Action Man" comic book that must be given to Jim for the X Buster.  As some may know, Action Man is already trademarked by a different company.

Legends 2 has the quiz by the Mayor at Manda Island that has a lot of names of songs, titles, music artists, movie stars, and other famous people.  Many of these names are already trademarked.

Knowing the U.S. and its very vague trademark laws, as much as I hate to admit it, rereleasing Megaman Legends 1 and 2 is no longer an option.  Legends 1 and Legends 2 must be remade just like Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X was. 

Edit:  I changed the copyright parts to trademarks. 

I figure as much. Plus, having them remade can be able to remove some of the issues and it's a win-win.

to Sigma Zero X: Regarding voice acting, you think they should involve the people behind Great Adventure on the Five Islands? That would help maybe...

Offline Flame

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2012, 09:51:08 PM »
The M. Bison switch was because the character WAS a parody on Mike Tyson. they didnt want to risk anything with him there.

but Legends is not going to get barred on the ground of "a name was copyrighted". It doesn't work that way. (and I still dont know what the deal with BN6 was. I dont think DC has the grounds to do that. Capcom probaby wussed out because they didnt want to deal with DC)
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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2012, 12:43:04 AM »
I seem recall Earthbound being held back from Virtual Console citing references to songs and other things causing worry of law suits.

I thought it was because some songs sounded like actual songs (Like Frank's fight theme.).

but Legends is not going to get barred on the ground of "a name was copyrighted". It doesn't work that way.

Ok, this is what I was trying to say, thats not how the copyright/lawsuit world of the US works. They only care about direct similarities/straight rip of copyrighted material, not references (If they cared about references there wouldn't be any shout-outs/nods to other works of fiction, etc.)

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2012, 12:53:57 AM »
I thought it was because some songs sounded like actual songs (Like Frank's fight theme.).
Which is exactly what he said.
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If that counts as a hint then a truck crashing through your wall counts as subtle.

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2012, 12:59:13 AM »
Which is exactly what he said.

ah, I guess you can interpret what he said as that.
I read it as references to songs, but didn't think that it could also stand for similarities to other songs.

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2012, 01:45:39 AM »
well a similarity is a reference, is it not? :3
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If that counts as a hint then a truck crashing through your wall counts as subtle.

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2012, 02:00:48 AM »
Ok, this is what I was trying to say, thats not how the copyright/lawsuit world of the US works. They only care about direct similarities/straight rip of copyrighted material, not references (If they cared about references there wouldn't be any shout-outs/nods to other works of fiction, etc.)
Very true.  And even if for the sake of argument that was a problem, Action Man only exists in L1 due to regional censorship.  In the original DASH game that thing isn't a comic book at all... :V

Likewise, L2's trivia is a simple matter of historical fact, which is nowhere near the same thing as infringing use.  If it was, Wikipedia would be sued out of existence.

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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2012, 02:09:36 AM »
Very true.  And even if for the sake of argument that was a problem, Action Man only exists in L1 due to regional censorship.  In the original DASH game that thing isn't a comic book at all... :V

Likewise, L2's trivia is a simple matter of historical fact, which is nowhere near the same thing as infringing use.  If it was, Wikipedia would be sued out of existence.

Hehehe... Yeah, I remember that tidbit. Two cents say that the dirty magazine bit's still in the U.S. disk data~

But alas, as the rest of the entertainment industry, we are like krill. Bigger fish eat krill. And Lawsuits have been an issue not just to games, but to the film, music, and comic book industries as well. But other than that, I think that what happened is the funds that keeps Legends 1, 2, and Bonne from coming overseas.. at least what I think.

This was no problem with 8, X4, X5, AND X6.. because potentially, there is a possibility that games within the brand has potential to outsell it's bretheren.

Again, it might've been insufficient funds that MADE L3 go belly up in the first play... but who knows?
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Re: Operation: Legends HD Collection as well as a plan for a NEW petition
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2012, 02:14:13 AM »
Okay, it took some digging, but I found the quote from Sven that I was looking for.  Granted, this is way back in December 2010 (you know, back when Legends 3 was real):



"Actually, it looks like there's an IP risk on one of the titles so the IP group won't let us re-release it on PSN. We've been trying to see if we can't get that resolved but it's going to take a long time."

*voice actor discussion among the members*

"The issues I'm speaking of are not audio related but I can't elaborate more unfortunately."


http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_capcom/go/thread/view/7371/26463829/Progress_on_getting_the_Mega_Man_Legends_series_to_PSN



So, some middleware issue, I guess?

"Your pants are on fire."