Author Topic: ZX Gigamix  (Read 14536 times)

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Offline Robert Oakes

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Re: ZX Gigamix
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2008, 04:00:23 AM »
Actually he made them to seek out Rockmen and bring them into the Game of Destiny.

No, that was Albert's ruse to hide his true intentions from the two. The whole Game of Destiny was a set up Albert devised to gather the Model W fragments, so that the hatred from Prometheus and Pandora could serve as the catalyst to create Ouroboros.

The small 4's eyes are red because they're mind-controlled, yes.  Grey's eyes were red right after he was activated too, but they faded to green immediately afterward, which is when Pandora showed up talking about how the mind-control didn't work and Grey was therefore defective.

Pandora said that Grey's brainwashing was incomplete as a result of Grey being awakened prematurely. It's not that the process wasn't working; it was interrupted.

It should also be mentioned that even though the four Mega Men were conditioned in some level, they weren't bound to Albert's will. This is evidenced by Aeolus's willingness to defeat Albert in order to become king. It isn't true mind control as the four were still in control of their own actions.

Offline Kieran

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Re: ZX Gigamix
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2008, 04:14:57 AM »
Edit: Oops, Oakie beat me to it.
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Offline Hypershell

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Re: ZX Gigamix
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2008, 04:17:30 AM »
Pandora said that Grey's brainwashing was incomplete as a result of Grey being awakened prematurely. It's not that the process wasn't working; it was interrupted.

It should also be mentioned that even though the four Mega Men were conditioned in some level, they weren't bound to Albert's will. This is evidenced by Aeolus's willingness to defeat Albert in order to become king. It isn't true mind control as the four were still in control of their own actions.
Even Pandora and Prometheus, who Albert keeps on the tightest leash of all, are still capable of opposing Albert.  He manipulates them, but not necessarilly in the possessed sense.

Zan and I have been over this one in the past, particularly the point of why the mind-control is incomplete on Grey despite Grey being cooped up in his capsure for far longer than the Four.  The probable answer we came up with (and by we, I mean he came up with it and ran it by me to see whether or not I could tear it apart) is the absence of Model A.  The mind control overrides the Biometal's will with that of the user, so the Biometal would in theory have to be present for it to be completed.

Another interesting point of that discussion was that the mind control may not have ever been intended for anyone but Grey in the first place, considering that Albert's original plan would have been for all Game Of Destiny participants to have Model W fragments.  PnP likely decided to apply it to others after the monkey wrench that is Ciel's legendary hero Biometals were thrown into the mix.

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Offline Flame

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Re: ZX Gigamix
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2008, 05:42:41 AM »
The small 4's eyes are red because they're mind-controlled, yes.  Grey's eyes were red right after he was activated too, but they faded to green immediately afterward, which is when Pandora showed up talking about how the mind-control didn't work and Grey was therefore defective.
more of an orange really...
and I still think Rufus was an awesome idea for a enemy. ive always wondered what the music he used was from though.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Zan

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Re: ZX Gigamix
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2008, 02:49:50 AM »
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and I still think Rufus was an awesome idea for a enemy. ive always wondered what the music he used was from though.

Go play some Final Fantasy 7.

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(and by we, I mean he came up with it and ran it by me to see whether or not I could tear it apart)

Naturally, if you can't tear it apart, it must be a pretty solid answer.

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PnP likely decided to apply it to others after the monkey wrench that is Ciel's legendary hero Biometals were thrown into the mix.

With all Ciel's mucking up the Game of Destiny, it's such irony that Albert was defeated by his own back up. Though the need for Grey probably arose from Ciel's Livemetal creation in the first place, so I suppose it is simply fate.

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The mind control overrides the Biometal's will with that of the user, so the Biometal would in theory have to be present for it to be completed.

I'd like to add here that Pandora does not specify whose mind is supposed to be controlled. It's the fans assumption that his mind is the one that should have been controlled using the mind control.  Grey's might question what they have done to him, but it's revealed Grey was made to be Albert's back up and thus should be one his side without any mind control, as a matter of fact, Albert believes until the end that Grey would turn to his side of his own free will.

Really, the only thing that would go with Grey needing mind control is the fact that he's constantly referred to as a defective, but that is simply Pandora and Prometheus' view spread around to the Falseroids and Chosen Ones. Pandora and Prometheus are obviously biased against all of Albert's creations. There are also more reason for Grey being defective, like him missing vital info about the Game of Destiny and also Model A not being surpressed. If both those parameters were met, then they wouldn't need mind control to turn Grey to Albert's side. The information given through the ciphers is why Albert kept on hoping that Grey would turn to his side, he just didn't expect Model A to withhold it.

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Offline Hypershell

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Re: ZX Gigamix
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2008, 08:15:38 AM »
There's also the fact that among Grey's first experiences was being rescued by a stranger.  In essence he was given a crash course in benevolence before he came into contact with Model A.  Perhaps if PnP had attempted to take Grey as a pupil, or even if Grey had found Model A while on the run, things would have been different.

Seems to be a recurring point of interest what effect, if any at all, the mind control has on the host.  Thetis always has me raising eyebrows on that one.  While the others seem to fight for pain, vengeance, and superiority, Thetis has a noble enough cause.  He's just going about it the wrong way.

Then there's Giro, back in Z1.  Model Z was obviously being suppressed during the battle with him, otherwise he could have canceled the transformation of his own accord.  I wonder, is that incident related to what was done to Grey and the four?  Does Model Z's status as the only Biometal to come out of such suppression (after sound beating) have anything to do with his last-ditch effort against the four in ZXA?

Man, the speculation can run pretty rampant there....

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Offline Flame

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Re: ZX Gigamix
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2008, 08:22:44 AM »
Model W's influence gave Corrupted Giro enough power to suppress his Biometal. I think its more of a matter of the biomatches suppressing the biometals... OR the biometals have been attuned to their biomatches way of thinking...
either way, I think it has something to do with the biomatch thing...
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: ZX Gigamix
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2008, 08:44:38 AM »
I don't think that's possible under normal circumstances.  If that were true then Model Z should not be able to cancel a Double Rock On independent of the host, as it does in ZXA.  Also notice Grey making the demand of Model A to change him back before the train stage.  A Biometal's power is not taken, it is offered.  All six of Ciel's Biometals reiterate that they offered their power to Vent/Aile before the final round with Serpent in ZX, and encourage him/her to go on where he/she would have given up, further establishing their will as independent of their host.

"Biomatch" is simply another term for the host of a Biometal, synonymous with Chosen One as far as I can tell.

OR the biometals have been attuned to their biomatches way of thinking...
If that were the case they would still continue to speak, as Models X and Z do.

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Offline Align

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Re: ZX Gigamix
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2008, 11:27:02 PM »
Am I the only one who really likes Target Chaser up to about 1:15 where it just falls apart and sounds as bad as someone who can't sing trying for something normally quite good? it just sounds bad okay