Author Topic: No Charge Shot.....Why?  (Read 9813 times)

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Offline Hypershell

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2011, 02:59:55 AM »
It's the charge that overshadows the special weapons
There's no charge in 2, and MHX definitely wants a word with you.

"Your pants are on fire."

Offline AquaTeamV3

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2011, 04:29:46 AM »
I still say that the best way to get the most out of special weapons is to allow the player to use their buster with a special weapon equipped. (Like with MM8/X4-onwards).  You're still allowed to experiment without having to give up your primary source of damage.
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Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2011, 05:26:17 AM »
I don't disagree that 9's balance is off, and that 10 fixed it. I just think the degree with which it is off is sorely exaggerated. Not to mention, it has nothing to do with slide and charge being excluded. There exclusion actually lends merit to an aspect of 9's broken difficulty that I actually did like, that being the special weapons.

Fact of the matter is that previous games in the series often had only a sole weapon stand out, and had an otherwise useless arsenal overshadowed by the buster. Rockman9 is different in that literally every single weapon is a great weapon to use in stages, further emphasized by the low mobility and low offensive of MM2 gameplay.

Again, Rockman 10 redid the balance and fixed every problem Rockman 9 had.  If they continue on that course, I more than welcome more games without the slide and charge available as a default.

They do need to rethink their upgrade system, though. There's no excuse for not allowing their unlocking down the road.


I pretty much agree with everything stated here.

Offline Gotham Ranger

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2011, 06:39:20 AM »
I keep hearing 10 is better than 9. That gives me a little hope in deciding to try it out. I'm hesitant on downloadable titles due to the fact that if you're unsatisfied, you're out of money. You can't return, you can't trade.

Offline Flame

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2011, 07:03:45 AM »
To me,10 felt far fresher than 9.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2011, 07:23:06 AM »
I keep hearing 10 is better than 9. That gives me a little hope in deciding to try it out. I'm hesitant on downloadable titles due to the fact that if you're unsatisfied, you're out of money. You can't return, you can't trade.

I liked 9 a lot and even I think 10 is a much better game.

Offline Gotham Ranger

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2011, 07:30:39 AM »
I liked 9 a lot and even I think 10 is a much better game.
Is this before or after you add the Blues factor? :V

Offline Zan

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2011, 12:53:01 PM »
There's no charge in 2, and MHX definitely wants a word with you.

I don't think you quite realize what I'm saying. I'm saying that MM2 gameplay, without charge and slide, puts an additional emphasis on special weapons that later classic games do not. The only reason this is not true within MM2 itself is because a certain single weapon is far too versatile there. As for the likes of X and 8, the issue is addressed by Special Weapon charging and the secondary fire button respectively.

Offline zuschzero

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2011, 02:11:02 PM »
Charge has nothing to do with the weapons. It's an OPTION.

There's no charge in Megaman 3, but it has the second worst arsenal after 5, because most of the weapons are bad in itself.
In 5, even uncharged shots are often better choice than using a weapon. It has nothing to do with the charge.
In 6, a good number of weapons are stronger than a charged shot.

Games with top-notch special weapons are MM4, MM&Bass, MM9, X, X2.


Offline Zan

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2011, 02:34:24 PM »
The crappier the Special Weapons, the more the power of the charge shot will make you want to use them even less. Fact of the matter is, the more abilities Rock gets by default, the better the Special Weapons have to be to outshine that base.

Offline Flame

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2011, 03:15:42 PM »
I found 8's weapons to be pretty useful.

Even the Mega Ball could be used to high jump before you get Tornado Hold. (or as the alternative when you dont want to waste the ammo on TH, like in Astro Man's maze)

Astro Crush was the only one I found to have limited use due to it's low ammo count, but its a good screen clearer.

And 8 is the one with not just the charge shot, but 3 different Charge shots.

Quote
The crappier the Special Weapons, the more the power of the charge shot will make you want to use them even less.
But if they are crappy, I wouldnt use them anyway. Id stick to the default buster or the better weapons. Like Shadow Blade and Spark in 3.

Quote
Fact of the matter is, the more abilities Rock gets by default, the better the Special Weapons have to be to outshine that base.
And whats wrong with that? Thats like Inti creates making Hard mode hard by nerfing Zero's default abilities rather than actually making things harder by making everything else faster and stronger. Its making them more useful by nerfing the player. That shouldnt be needed. 7 and 8's arsenals are good enough even with the Charge Shot. Even MM&B's weapons, while not always useful, were made useful by the game's broken difficulty as Rock.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2011, 03:23:30 PM »
Is this before or after you add the Blues factor? :V

Haha, before. Playable Blues does make everything better though.

As for the Charge, I agree with Zan. Personally, when the charge shot was introduced, I pretty much never used the special weapons again cept on bosses sometimes and Wily.

Offline AquaTeamV3

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2011, 03:50:54 PM »
I found 8's weapons to be pretty useful.

Even the Mega Ball could be used to high jump before you get Tornado Hold. (or as the alternative when you dont want to waste the ammo on TH, like in Astro Man's maze)

Astro Crush was the only one I found to have limited use due to it's low ammo count, but its a good screen clearer.

I think MM8's arsenal is really underrated.  As you said, Mega Ball gives you a really large number of vertical jumps, actually getting you places better than the Tornado Hold can if you use it correctly.  Flash Bomb's a X4-6 plasma shot that you can have 2 of on screen at a time IIRC.  Ice Wave wrecks anything on the ground/wall, Water Balloon has strength in numbers, and the sheer invincibility frames that you get from Astro Crush are more than enough to get you through some parts of the sled section in Wily Stage 1.

In the end, the only thing holding most of the weapons back in MM8 is the existence of the Arrow Shot.  It's THAT broken!
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Offline Blackhook

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2011, 03:57:40 PM »
But you forgot also to mention the cleverness of 8's shop. You couldn't buy everything because you had only a set amount of bolts to spend.

Offline Flame

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2011, 04:05:50 PM »
True. But you could still get both charge shot types.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Blackhook

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2011, 04:53:52 PM »
But getting them was more rewarding because you had to find and get the bolts first. No cheap farming.

Offline AquaTeamV3

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2011, 04:59:05 PM »
Yeah, and there were only certain essentials that you really needed before you could spend the rest on whatever you wanted.  H. Speed Charge, Arrow, (and Laser if you're into that), Energy Balancer, Energy Saver, and Super Recover were mainstays.
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Offline Reaperoid

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2011, 05:01:55 PM »
That said, there was also a lot of junk in there. I only really bother with Energy Saver, Energy Balancer and Arrow Shot.
I guess all I can really say is it isn't exactly what I'd expect out of a $4.4M game

It doesn't even have mouth animations

Offline Flame

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2011, 05:03:56 PM »
I love the laser shot.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline AquaTeamV3

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2011, 05:04:02 PM »
That said, there was also a lot of junk in there. I only really bother with Energy Saver, Energy Balancer and Arrow Shot.

If you bought Step Booster...yeah.
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Offline Flame

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2011, 05:05:44 PM »
or that one that made you fire normal shots while charging, that one was pointless. or was it charge TO rapid fire or something?

point stabnds though, despite the charge shot, 7-8.5's weapons were all useful. I actually never find myself using the buster in 8. I just flash bomb the [parasitic bomb] out of everything.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Blackhook

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2011, 06:00:49 PM »
Speaking of 8. Being able to use Buster and Special weapon at the same time. That was awesome and I want to see it back.

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2011, 12:19:05 AM »
Speaking of 8. Being able to use Buster and Special weapon at the same time. That was awesome and I want to see it back.

Remember it was done in X4-X6 as well, why they didn't include an option like that in X1-X3 and MM7 I have no clue (Since the PSOne and SNES have an identical setup other than the extra Shoulder buttons (Which were only used for Giga Crashes anyway) they could've mapped buster to two buttons and had special weapon usage on one of them, but I digress, i'm getting a little off topic.)

Offline Hypershell

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2011, 01:16:55 AM »
Is this before or after you add the Blues factor? :V
Who do you think PB is?  He'd have paid for Blues in 9 immediately.

9 had a female robot master, and revisited the concept of Light-bot Robot Masters.  That was it.  10 did everything else better.

I don't think you quite realize what I'm saying. I'm saying that MM2 gameplay, without charge and slide, puts an additional emphasis on special weapons that later classic games do not.
Creating emphasis by removing abilities has been my biggest complaint with Inticreates ever since Zero1.

"Your pants are on fire."

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2011, 06:47:12 AM »
Creating emphasis by removing abilities has been my biggest complaint with Inticreates ever since Zero1.

What about X4?