Author Topic: It's dead, Jim.  (Read 29480 times)

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Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2011, 04:26:46 PM »
None of us have put money into development of the game

Time is money, and we put a lot of time into it as a fan base. You know, dev room and all.

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Offline Krystal

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2011, 05:24:27 PM »
So you can justify the game cancellation, but can you justify then doing it before releasing an already mostly finished prototype version to gauge popularity?

Offline Flame

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2011, 05:45:54 PM »
We are fans. Fan is short for "fanatic". since when are fanatics known for rational, logical thinking towards the object of their fanaticism?

its not just any reason we are mad. Its because of the way it was cancelled, how cappy handled it. They are afraid it wont sell? why not release the prototype to SEE if it will? That was the whole point!
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Offline MrBaryl

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2011, 06:47:52 PM »
It should have been for the PSP but the game wouldn't have soldl well anyway. Don't you find weird that the Devroom had all these contests, design opinions and stuff? Capcom wouldn't need the Devroom if they actually intended to make Legends 3 (which apparently, wasn't the case) The whole thing was just too good to be true.


 

Offline Flame

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #54 on: July 21, 2011, 07:18:47 PM »
The deal was that it was for the fans, by the fans. The fans who had been waiting a decade for this one special game.

That was Inafune's intent.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Phi

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #55 on: July 21, 2011, 07:39:08 PM »
The point of the matter is the Prototype was supposed to judge how many people were actually interested in Legends to begin with. Not to mention that the Nintendo eShop uses a "5-star" rating system, so if the feedback was mostly 5 stars as opposed to 3 or 2, all the more reason to get serious and make the full game. I don't think that would have been an issue. Perhaps Capcom would still worry that somehow, the game might flop badly if the real game was released. Despite if the Prototype received positive feedback. Which would hardly be an excuse, because that's flat out going back on their word.

Either way, Capcom should just come clean and be honest on this cancellation. That's what everyone's listening out for. CapcomEURO's twitter doesn't make them seem professional either. It's nice to know that some staff from CoA understand what the fans are going through.

Offline MrBaryl

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #56 on: July 21, 2011, 07:44:03 PM »
Sadly, the fandom doesn't matter if the product doesn't have commercial value.

EDIT: Forget about CoE, they don't know what they're doing.

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #57 on: July 21, 2011, 07:54:06 PM »
Yes. And that could have gotten people laid off if the game did not sell well. Okay people, I know I may not get the response I'm looking for but I'm going to ask it anyway. Is the few hours of entertainment, Megaman therioes, and buster shooting that much more important to you than peoples jobs?

I said it before and I'll say it again. Megaman doesn't carry enough marketing weight to sell enough copies and at the very least break even with the costs of making a game for the 3ds. The 3ds alone is a risky business venture because of how much that tech costs and not too many people have bought them. (Yes, I understand that a lot of people bought them, however they don't fly off shelves and print money) For them to do what you want, they need to put their business AND their employees at risk so YOU can have a few hours of entertainment and HOPE that people buy at least 2 million copies of the game to break even with the costs of production, pr, and development. Look, I get that you guys love Megaman and thats fine and all. But you love him that much to put a company at risk? Jobs at risk?

Honestly, none of us have an actual right to be fuming mad at the news. None of us have put money into development of the game, so none of us have the say in what makes it to the market. Also: I will say this. The cancelation of this game has nothing to do with "Megaman isn't western enough." It simply will not sell very well. I mean, the reason Psychonauts (The awesome game that it was) didn't see a sequel was because it did not sell well. 50: Cent Bulletproof sold well. So from a marketing standpoint it would be too risky for them to make another one. Honestly guys. Do you think it's THAT worth it?

Honestly, I don't believe people's issue with this is the just the cancellation itself. Like I said before in the other thread, it's one thing to just be lied to or not even lie but just come to a financial decision. If they were just say "We have plans to make a new MegaMan Legends 3 game" and then after this long cancel it because of marketing & sales issues, people would be upset, but not on this level. Why I think people are so upset is that they did everything in their power to pump this game up and get fans hopes up, with contests, votes, the Devroom, and so on. Then, they say stuff like "Sales of the Prototype will determine if we make this game" which in itself is a dick move especially since they were going to charge for it. But people still went along with that and then even before the demo came out, they just outright cancel the game.

Like you said, Legends 3 was a financial question mark since its announcement, cause personally I didn't believe it would sell that well either. In regards to that, I have little problem with it being canceled, cause it's the same reason why I'll most likely never see a Power Stone 3. However, the way Capcom went about this whole thing is douchebaggery on a scale I don't think I've ever seen from a company. Like I said in the other thread, the best equivalent I can think of is if for 8 months Nintendo continued the Smash Bros Dojo info dump, and then just simply cancel the game. (I'm not comparing Smash Bros sales to Legends sales. Just using an example.)

As for putting the company at "financial risk" for making this game, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one. One bad or poor selling game will not cripple a company, especially a company that just announced an Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 game for $40 after people literally just spend $60 on the previous game not even that long ago. They know everyone who played the first is buying the second, and probably more than that as well. Capcom clearly has their cash cow games ready, so taking a risk on Legends 3 would not have cost them all that much. Plus, when you douchebaggily [acid burst] off a fanbase like this enough to get them to want to boycott your company, you run the risk of people losing their jobs anyway (I doubt people will actually boycott, but just saying is all).

For me, I can understand the cancellation. However, the way they went about the whole thing was downright sinister. To get fans hopes up like that and then crush them over a financially questionable game is really an awful business tactic, especially when you hear all the stuff coming out about how they never had plans to make it, or when you now hear CapcomEuro saying that the fans were at fault for it not being made. When you treat your loyal, sometimes overly loyal, fanbase in this manner, that's when you get them wanting people to lose their jobs. People absolutely have a right to be "fuming mad" over the way they were treated throughout this whole thing. They don't have a right to personally attack Capcom's servers or anything stupid like that. However, they do have a right to voice their opinion though and let Capcom know that they do not like to be treated in this manner, and whether that's by sending them e-mails, posting on Capcom Unity, boycotting their games, sending lots of snail mail letters, or what have you, people still do have that right. If anything, judging by how many gamers are actually pissed by this, and not just the people on the MM forums and such, this game possibly had a bigger market than Capcom realized.

Offline Ramzal

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #58 on: July 21, 2011, 08:01:56 PM »
We are fans. Fan is short for "fanatic". since when are fanatics known for rational, logical thinking towards the object of their fanaticism?

its not just any reason we are mad. Its because of the way it was cancelled, how cappy handled it. They are afraid it wont sell? why not release the prototype to SEE if it will? That was the whole point!

You know. This made the most sense. The very honesty of it is pretty solid and kinda hit home, Flame. The "Fanatic" point mainly. So I may understand, the reaction is simply based off of the fixaction towards Megaman? You know... That's good and terrible at the same time. Good because--well, you admitted that was the case and gave a good reason for it. Terrible due to the people who are so big of fanatics to start putting death threats on live streams. And I do agree, the PR attempt sucked. Big time. So, lemme see if I can get this right. If Capcom would have said something either along the lines of : "We do not believe that attempting to bring Megaman Legends to a green light would make sufficient profit for us, and it's too risky." Or "We had predicted there would be more users than the number we received in the Dev rooms... So based on those numbers we can't justify a sequel." That wouldn't have pissed fans off?

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2011, 08:08:36 PM »
So, lemme see if I can get this right. If Capcom would have said something either along the lines of : "We do not believe that attempting to bring Megaman Legends to a green light would make sufficient profit for us, and it's too risky." Or "We had predicted there would be more users than the number we received in the Dev rooms... So based on those numbers we can't justify a sequel." That wouldn't have pissed fans off?

No, that still would have pissed people off immensely because of the all the effort they put into pumping the game up like they did and getting everyone's hopes up. Plus, using Devroom numbers to justify sales is extremely poor business planning.

Offline Ramzal

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #60 on: July 21, 2011, 08:14:39 PM »
No, that still would have pissed people off immensely because of the all the effort they put into pumping the game up like they did and getting everyone's hopes up. Plus, using Devroom numbers to justify sales is extremely poor business planning.

So the only way Capcom could have done things right would to have never have announced the game at all / never developing the Devroom / just stop talking about the project. But also, as we are on the subject of getting ones hopes up, do you think that some (I said SOME not all) of it could be on the individual? Possibly by overhyping the game itself simply because it was coming out, rather than being slight carefull....and NOT buying a 3ds just because of this game maybe coming out? Doesn't that aspect of fault lay on the consumer?

Offline Acid

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #61 on: July 21, 2011, 08:28:05 PM »
Are we now being nerdy about being nerds?

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2011, 08:28:54 PM »
So the only way Capcom could have done things right would to have never have announced the game at all / never developing the Devroom / just stop talking about the project. But also, as we are on the subject of getting ones hopes up, do you think that some (I said SOME not all) of it could be on the individual? Possibly by overhyping the game itself simply because it was coming out, rather than being slight carefull....and NOT buying a 3ds just because of this game maybe coming out? Doesn't that aspect of fault lay on the consumer?

Not at all. You do it like most game companies do, as in announce that a game is being made then make people wait in anticipation and maybe give them a little bit here and there if they need to, like a trailer and what not. This game literally did everything in its power to get fans involved in its creation, which is what got people's hopes up. The whole "We're definitely making this and you're going to help!" mantra that was announced at the NYCC last year. People not buying a 3DS having to do with sales is also not the fault of the consumer regarding the release of this game, cause for some, many were waiting for a good reason to buy the 3DS (some were even waiting for this game to come out). I mean, the original DS took a good 6 months to a year or longer before it became the powerhouse seller that it was.

Offline Phi

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2011, 08:30:48 PM »
"We do not believe that attempting to bring Megaman Legends to a green light would make sufficient profit for us, and it's too risky." Or "We had predicted there would be more users than the number we received in the Dev rooms... So based on those numbers we can't justify a sequel." That wouldn't have pissed fans off?

1 - Let's use Okami for an example. During the time of its release, it sold really poorly. So poorly that for a while, Capcom outright said they had no future plans for the franchise. Despite saying that, they re-released it for the Wii a while later and the sales still weren't quite up to snuff. Then a "sequel" for the game was planned. Okamiden. There were some struggles with whether or not they should release it do to the poor sales of the previous games, but Eshiro (producer) pushed to have it see the light of day. Eventually seeing it's release in 2010. So tell me: What makes this scenario any different? Okami sold poorly, yet Capcom re-released it AND made a sequel to top it off. There is absolutely no excuse to why Legends 3 couldn't have seen release. It wouldn't have crippled them.

As for the, "We had predicted there would be more users than the number we received in the Dev rooms... So based on those numbers we can't justify a sequel", the Dev room wasn't even half the people who were interested in the game. Sure they were the ones who actually participated, but if you Google searched around for blogs or newsites that dicussed about the Legends sequel, about 90% were hyped for it. Going by the "number of people in the Dev room" is an extremely rash and poor excuse.

Offline Jericho

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #64 on: July 21, 2011, 08:35:05 PM »
That's a general thing that more people that are enthusiasts need to keep in mind and developers keep as commandments PB - the game(s) sell the system. People can't look at a console and think because X many people don't own it, it won't make a profit. The game is the impetus for the purchase of the console and stopping out before you believe in your brand power citing "it's not gonna work" as your explanation really reeks of not planning this out or not believing in your product enough. The latter is especially bad in this situation since the consumers were all people who had supported the development in this game via the continued thriving input in both dev rooms western and eastern.

Offline Mirby

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2011, 09:07:16 PM »
Yeah, the fact that every time Capcom comes out with a new excuse we find a way to prove it wrong says something.

This is definitely out of spite.
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Offline MrBaryl

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2011, 09:20:41 PM »
What makes this scenario any different? Okami sold poorly, yet Capcom re-released it AND made a sequel to top it off. There is absolutely no excuse to why Legends 3 couldn't have seen release. It wouldn't have crippled them.

The PS2, Wii and DS were all successful consoles, the 3DS is new and the sales are not looking good either. Capcom is just not confident of this handheld.

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2011, 09:27:58 PM »
Yeah, the fact that every time Capcom comes out with a new excuse we find a way to prove it wrong says something.

This is definitely out of spite.

Okay, lets not go crazy. There's no way this is out of spite. It's mainly a marketing decision, like Ramzal and I said.

Offline Mirby

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2011, 09:32:54 PM »
Okay, my bad. Regardless, I'm not sure if you've seen this yet.

Inafune speaks about the cancellation.
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Offline Zan

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2011, 10:51:38 PM »
With how far along they were in production, as proven by videos and screens, there is no financial loss from releasing what they had thus far for the public to experience in the form of prototype. Pulling the plug without that would only be making the time and effort that was put into it by fan and staff alike go to complete and utter waste.

For that very reason I must ask: why was "the rocket" not completed?

From both the point of view of story and PR, getting Rock from Heaven would be pivotal. Both the fans and Capcom would have taken one slight but ever so important step forward. To end the prototype with a long overdue reunion while saying that Rock, uncertain of the future, would surely continue to fight against the Elder Gods for the sake of everyone; that would not just be any message, but a message of heart. The hopes and dreams of everyone in love with the characters and setting, wrapped together in the prototype, even if the final game may never come to pass.

"That", is the very least they could have done, could have allowed to come into existence.

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Offline Flame

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2011, 10:59:23 PM »
So the only way Capcom could have done things right would to have never have announced the game at all / never developing the Devroom / just stop talking about the project. But also, as we are on the subject of getting ones hopes up, do you think that some (I said SOME not all) of it could be on the individual? Possibly by overhyping the game itself simply because it was coming out, rather than being slight carefull....and NOT buying a 3ds just because of this game maybe coming out? Doesn't that aspect of fault lay on the consumer?
The only way this could have worked was

A. never give the go-ahead to make a damn prototype,
or
B. release the prototype and say "the sales of the prototype were insufficient".

would B have still made people mad? You bet. But not as mad as this. Why? because we at least got to SEE the prototype, and part of the hard work the dev team and the fans put in. theres a testament left to what could have been, and we would have latched onto it and never let go.

But this..? this is probably the MOST douchebag move ANY game company has EVER made, in Gaming history.

EDIT: also, what Zan said.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline marshmallow man

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2011, 11:50:05 PM »
I haven't been around this board for months. Other responsibilities pulled me in other directions, and eventually this just became an outlet to vent nerd rage, often when I was already frustrated at something else. My apology. I don't expect anyone has missed me too much anyway.

Old habits die hard, so I'm driven to say this to you, the only ones I think might understand. I think I've outgrown Mega Man. I've come to accept that Mega Man will not become what I want it to be, and that there are better things I can be doing with my time than spending time debating its loose fiction and encouraging hopes that lead so often to disappointment. That is not a slight on any of you who still wish to do such things. If it can still be just as fun for you as it once was for me, more power to you.

Capcom's latest antics with pulling out of both Legends 3 and Universe is making walking away all the easier. I admit I didn't participate in the Devroom. I've been too busy to, and I don't have the talent to enter all their art contests to begin with. I still thought it was a great effort on Capcom's part, but I somehow just couldn't quite believe it. Sure enough, my doubts are fulfilled. I went to Capcom-Unity today to see the mess that has become of this franchise. Ironically, you can still join the Devroom and get a Servbot number, even after the project is pronounced dead. I am number 4245. Some good that does.

Mega Man will limp on, in a few months to a year we'll have new Mega Man game announcements. Fan rage will blow over and life will go on. If you guys stick around that long, I'm sure it'll come. But me, I just don't care anymore.

Farewell, old friends.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #72 on: July 22, 2011, 12:00:08 AM »
The 3ds alone is a risky business venture because of how much that tech costs and not too many people have bought them.
Software sells hardware, not the other way around.  The 3DS's lackluster market penetration can be attributed to many things, but not the least of which is a lackluster software lineup.  Cancelling compelling software in response to that will only make the situation worse.

This is why Nintendo holding back their software in response to shovelware-dev-bitchery doesn't work.

Further, the notion of Capcom being unwilling to develop for a system that is not yet printing money is a COMPLETE AND TOTAL contradiction of their earlier message with regards to the development of Legends 3 and their target audience, the very reason they chose the 3DS in the first place.  Legends 3 was meant to target the "early adopter" in the hopes of avoiding getting buried among the masses of mediocre games sharing shelf space, as Wii games like Zack & Wiki were.  It was to be presented early so as to stand out among the comparatively thin competition and spread word among the more discerning early audience.  In that regard, Capcom should be thanking their damn lucky stars that Excitebike 3D is STILL their only competition.  If they refuse to release until the market explodes to DS-Lite level proportions, they are completely abandoning the very goal they originally set.

Except Fusion was actually fun to play, didn't completely retcon out everything that happened in the prime trilogy, didn't turn samus into a crying baby at the sight of that one guy she kills every other thursday, make her suit run on magical girl bullshit, or have an old japanese man cramming every possible japanese female stereotype he can onto her.
Pardon my lazyass response, but this is a largely irrelevant tangent that has already been discussed to hell and back in your absence:

I'll give you that Other M badly handles the background of the Space Pirates, although Prime 3 is more key in making sense of Other M's take on it than you might think.  The rest, I deny.  I doubt you care, but if you want to know why, we can continue elsewhere.

With how far along they were in production, as proven by videos and screens, there is no financial loss from releasing what they had thus far for the public to experience in the form of prototype. Pulling the plug without that would only be making the time and effort that was put into it by fan and staff alike go to complete and utter waste.

For that very reason I must ask: why was "the rocket" not completed?

From both the point of view of story and PR, getting Rock from Heaven would be pivotal. Both the fans and Capcom would have taken one slight but ever so important step forward. To end the prototype with a long overdue reunion while saying that Rock, uncertain of the future, would surely continue to fight against the Elder Gods for the sake of everyone; that would not just be any message, but a message of heart. The hopes and dreams of everyone in love with the characters and setting, wrapped together in the prototype, even if the final game may never come to pass.

"That", is the very least they could have done, could have allowed to come into existence.
I would imagine there are is some degree of labor and fees applied to releasing an eShop purchase, but it certainly ought to be negligible compared to how much they've invested in the Prototype already.

I don't see the Prototype getting Trigger back, that's a bit too pivotal for a "prologue".  I'd imagine Barrett was helping Roll's progress on the rocket and that would be that.  Trigger could be a post-game bonus in the Prototype, though.

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Offline Zan

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2011, 12:07:01 AM »
Quote
I don't see the Prototype getting Trigger back, that's a bit too pivotal for a "prologue".  I'd imagine Barrett was helping Roll's progress on the rocket and that would be that.

Well, no matter how far the completion of the rocket could have gone. The same sentiments could have been shared nonetheless.

"Ki!  Ki ki ki ki!  Ki!"


Offline Flame

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Re: It's dead, Jim.
« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2011, 01:42:31 AM »

Wily confirmed as cause for Legends 3 cancellation
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.