Author Topic: The "gift" of mortality  (Read 10742 times)

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Offline Align

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2011, 02:16:56 PM »
I guess the people didn't have much say in it.
Your still a cyborg if you have a human brain.
Does it count as human if it's inorganic?

Offline Flame

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2011, 02:57:22 PM »
It still stands you are a human with a machine body. And that makes you a cyborg
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Align

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2011, 05:07:26 PM »
If I did it I'd probably think of myself as having changed species; "I was once human, I am now... something more"
I guess it'd be more of a case of post-op robot than a regular robot though.

Offline Waifu

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2011, 06:58:14 PM »
Cyborg Mega Men? Not a bad idea.

Offline Zan

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2011, 12:24:23 AM »
Don't we already have those?

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Offline Flame

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2011, 01:11:10 AM »
We do. Since Legends.

Volnutt is a cyborg Mega Man,

And the ZX protagonists Vent, Aile, and Ashe. As well as enemies Atlas and Aeolus.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Zan

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2011, 01:27:37 AM »
Helios and Atlas 'might' be Repliroids. It's unspecified after all.  As for Rockman Trigger; he's a who knows what.

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Offline Mirby

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2011, 01:47:07 AM »
He's a Purifier Unit, right?
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Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2011, 03:51:42 AM »
He's a sex machine!

Offline Mirby

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2011, 03:56:08 AM »
And he almost lost his crotch plate too.
OH [parasitic bomb] IM USING LINK AND I ACCIDENTALLY FINAL SMASHED A CUCCO OH GOD HELP
If that counts as a hint then a truck crashing through your wall counts as subtle.

Offline Flame

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2011, 08:12:07 AM »
Helios and Atlas 'might' be Repliroids. It's unspecified after all.  As for Rockman Trigger; he's a who knows what.
MIGHT be. It isnt specified, but almost all reploids have their triangle very visible (even Prairie, who has it semi obscured) but those two have no visible red triangles at all.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Zan

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2011, 12:26:40 PM »
Why would the law try and control Repliroid haircuts?

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Offline Mirby

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2011, 01:02:54 PM »
Haven't you heard of the fashion police, Zan? ;P
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Offline Zan

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2011, 01:28:24 PM »
The fashion police has human prejudice?

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Offline Mirby

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2011, 02:00:18 PM »
If they find humanity to be fabulous, yes.
OH [parasitic bomb] IM USING LINK AND I ACCIDENTALLY FINAL SMASHED A CUCCO OH GOD HELP
If that counts as a hint then a truck crashing through your wall counts as subtle.

Offline Align

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2011, 04:31:44 PM »
Maybe it IS a law that the triangle should be visible if you have one.

Offline Flame

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2011, 08:55:30 PM »
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Why would the law try and control Repliroid haircuts?
Would it be a stretch? they are already enforcing equality between reploid and Human via making both races mechanical and aging, I wouldnt be surprised if there was some sort of law that required Reploid triangles to be visible. I mean hey serve SOME purpose, given that Zero series reploids did not require any triangles or such on their bodies. Alouette did not have a crystal until she was fitted for the Reploid/Human Laws. They are either to mark Repolids as reploids, or for some sort of other purpose. (Solar energy collector maybe?) As such, if they have some purpose, I would assume they are required to not be entirely obscured.

Im just going by what the games present. I mean, even the reploid dog has it visible when it stands to reason that it should be covered by fur or not have one at all.

All reploids we have seen so far are marked by the red triangle, and they all have it visible. As such I would reason that if there is no triangle visible, they are Human.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Tri Hex

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2011, 09:41:05 PM »
Wait, even reploid dogs have triangles ?

Offline Flame

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2011, 10:54:31 PM »
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Zan

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2011, 11:06:28 PM »
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They are either to mark Repolids as reploids,

That's what they're there for. But why would a bunch of vigilantes hellbent on changing the world care about showing it at all times? No matter how much of an educated guess you'd make it, in the end it's still an assumption to call them humans; as it is unspecified, leave it unspecified.

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Offline Hypershell

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2011, 11:58:39 PM »
Atlas is human.  The precedent is established by Prairie that Inti will show partially-obscured marks.  The gap in Atlas's bangs is too wide to cover the mark completely.  Look at her art and try to "draw" a triangle on her in only the space covered by her hair.  Doesn't work, the proper position would leave it partially visible, and by quite a large margin.

Aeolus's hair is actually thick enough to believably cover the entire mark.

Note that only the humans that had their bodies fully replaced, are able to be Rockmen. Especially the model A user would require such, transforming the whole body to forms much bigger and much smaller.

That's a baseless assumption.  From Albert's perspective, "the mere fusion of man and machine" is a simple matter beneath his evolutionary goals.  They require only Albert's DNA; no further restrictions have been specified or hinted.

It is a fact that Model A and A-Trans can handle human DNA, otherwise Ashe's story doesn't work.  She inhereted Albert's DNA by birth and her machine body was, by Albert's own words, "completely unaltered."  In light of that, one of the following must be true:
A. Ashe's machine body is not a full replacement, or:
B. Human DNA can be mapped and converted for machine purposes.

The only way your statement is justified is if you take answer B and then go on to explain why neither the R.O.C.K. System nor A-Trans can do what Legion's facilities can.

We've seen human bodies transferred as data since the Zero-series, using portable devices no less.  There is no reason to assume that technology cannot convert and rearrange the human body two centuries later.  I'll also remind you that A-Trans is not bound by the mass of the user (weight mechanics of Bifrost).  Assuming for the sake of argument that the human body is incompatible as "raw material" for other forms, storing it as data would be child's play compared to everything else that A-Trans does.

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Offline Zan

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2011, 01:01:05 AM »
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Atlas is human.  The precedent is established by Prairie that Inti will show partially-obscured marks.  The gap in Atlas's bangs is too wide to cover the mark completely.  Look at her art and try to "draw" a triangle on her in only the space covered by her hair.  Doesn't work, the proper position would leave it partially visible, and by quite a large margin.

I'm just playing devil's advocate, is all.

Your precedence requires that there are no oversights in the drawing of the characters. In Prairie's case it was clearly established by the plot that she is a Repliroid. Atlas has no such luxury.

I'd say er being human is likely. But it would be an educated guess, with no affirmation from the story.

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That's a baseless assumption.  From Albert's perspective, "the mere fusion of man and machine" is a simple matter beneath his evolutionary goals.  They require only Albert's DNA; no further restrictions have been specified or hinted.

By his own admission, Albert's DNA is included with the machine body, every part of it. Any part of the flesh body that remains does not have Albert's DNA.

In Ashe's case, ofcourse human DNA and Repliroid DNA can be converted to one another. If it wasn't she wouldn't be a Rockman. It is after all the machine body's DNA that all other have to have for the transformation to work.

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Offline Flame

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2011, 01:36:42 AM »
When I try to imagine a flesh bodied Human trying to use A-Trans I'm reminded of Metroid Prime 1's entries on the Space Pirates attempts to reverse engineer the Morphball.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2011, 01:44:23 AM »
It's a rather bizarre parallel with my previous post that Prime depicts Samus as becoming a mass of energy in a hollow semi-open sphere...

Hopefully Albert has greater expertise in that area than the Pirates. XD

By his own admission, Albert's DNA is included with the machine body, every part of it. Any part of the flesh body that remains does not have Albert's DNA.

In Ashe's case, ofcourse human DNA and Repliroid DNA can be converted to one another. If it wasn't she wouldn't be a Rockman. It is after all the machine body's DNA that all other have to have for the transformation to work.
The point then is that a "partial" replacement can just as easily contain Albert's DNA as a "full" replacement, and that there is no grounds to eliminating the earlier as a possibility for Albert's chosen ones.  They must have a machine body for Albert to mark them, absolutely, but nothing says that the extent of their chosen machine body is a relevant factor.  The claim that biological components throw a monkey wrench into the Biometal's workings is baseless.

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I'm just playing devil's advocate, is all.

Your precedence requires that there are no oversights in the drawing of the characters. In Prairie's case it was clearly established by the plot that she is a Repliroid. Atlas has no such luxury.

I'd say er being human is likely. But it would be an educated guess, with no affirmation from the story.
In that case, anybody could hypothetically "disguise" the mark with the Reploid equivalent to a bald cap.  The only "affirmation from the story" of any human is the letters "Hu" under the life bar.

Repetition with consistent results reduces the likelihood of what you're suggesting (that is, there is more than one drawing of Atlas, and the angle of her hair is revisited every time).  That Atlas is human is a logical conclusion based on the evidence at hand, with nothing to contradict it.

If a definitive point arises to challenge that, it falls into "minor retcon" territory, in that it glazes over previous contradicting details, relying on suspension of disbelief to excuse the previous developer/artist neglect.

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Offline Zan

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Re: The "gift" of mortality
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2011, 03:00:23 AM »
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The point then is that a "partial" replacement can just as easily contain Albert's DNA as a "full" replacement, and that there is no grounds to eliminating the earlier as a possibility for Albert's chosen ones.  They must have a machine body for Albert to mark them, absolutely, but nothing says that the extent of their chosen machine body is a relevant factor.  The claim that biological components throw a monkey wrench into the Biometal's workings is baseless.

I'd like to put additional emphasis on Albert stating "every part" when speaking of the bionic bodies of those to become Rockmen.  To become a Rockman is considerably hampered by only having a single arm or leg undergo the process. Albert was considerably more thorough in his selection of the Chosen Ones.

Also, I really do think the death animation being the same between human and Repliroid would be considerably awkward without a complete replacement of their flesh bodies with machine....

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the letters "Hu" under the life bar.

Now that you bring up the Hu" under the life bar, I'm reminded; it was stated that those who's full bodies have been replaced are given a "Hu" number to indicate the flesh body being stored away. Although we won't know with Thomas' scheme of using those human bodies going nowhere fast, I'd be interested in finding out if a correlation between the two exists.

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