Author Topic: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?  (Read 10923 times)

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Offline Treleus

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2012, 08:24:20 PM »
I might feel better about X as the first villain in Zero if the Mega Man X series belonged more to X than Zero, and employed better story writing and character development with regard to X and Sigma, but also Zero. Something to make X an inspiring, effective character rather than one who's just doomed to be a villain in the next series, his own being a mere stepping stone to the next one. As it is, the story is no more deep than X vs Zero vs Sigma. Great action game, but there's not much there in the way of a stirring plot that can appropriately build up to a WTF role reversal in the bleaker Zero series.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2012, 03:07:32 PM »
How much of a plot can you build in an action game without detracting from the action, I wonder?  Part of the X-series's strength is its focus on gameplay, how easily you can jump in and blow [parasitic bomb] up without having to sit through half an hour of exposition.  Sure, some of Zero's best character moments came out of the Zero series, but we definitely paid for it in terms of how much dialogue we had to sit through.

Although even in the context of the X-series gameplay there are probably greater steps that could have been taken.  Part of the problem is Sigma.  X is supposed to be an emotional and often conflicted hero, but by the time games evolved to the point where we expect to hear X speak more than two lines per game, he'd already fought Sigma so many times that Sigma was already the exception to the rule in terms of how X responds to his opponents.  Admittedly, he kind of has to be; X would have come off as awfully gullible if he still doubted his battle against Sigma by X4 or X5.

I think X's best game in terms of character development was X6 (you know, the one that Inafune didn't want to exist, surprise surprise), because it showed us how X responds to a fresh face.  Seeing somebody trying to take advantage of the world already on its knees, destroying his best friend's image, and abusing his power, X shows a sense of clarity and determination that we don't often see from him, and yet still holds onto his compassion after all is said and done.  I'd imagine that's the kind of X that most people envision when they complain about other games leaving him feel whiney or wishy-washy.

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Offline Jericho

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2012, 07:12:13 PM »
Yeah, X6 really had the best X characterization in the series.

Offline Karasai♪

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2012, 08:15:05 PM »
And that lead into his spiraling whiny depression in X7....

Offline Flame

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2012, 09:00:07 PM »
Its funny how all through the X series, X-X5 anyway, Zero got all the characterization, since he was the only one to ever actually interact with anyone. He got all the "cool" dialogues that gave us insight into his personality and character.

X... Not so much, aside from his bit in the intro stage.

That's something that Maverick Hunter X did well on, since it added the pre-boss fight dialogue to the game, as well as overall just giving X more lines and stuff.

in X6, since X is the default character and Zero is an optional bonus, X HAS to have strong characterization. Since Zero is not there to steal the spotlight due to being optional. (though the plot revolves around him anyway)

X8 was pretty good with X too, and X7 for it's terrible writing of X's character, at least tried to do something with it.

It's amazing how under Inafune, X, the main character, got such little characterization in favor of the "favorite son" Zero. It took Inafune leaving the role of X series producer for X to get the spotlight. (Honestly, the way X was shafted in X4 in terms of cutscene screen time is simply atrocious)
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Align

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2012, 12:01:18 AM »
X4 was pretty much "Megaman X - Zero gets to be a main character!! Oh and X is there too."

Offline Rin

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #56 on: February 05, 2012, 12:58:06 AM »
X4 was pretty much "Megaman X - Zero gets to be a main character!! Oh and X is there too."
That's not funny! His Girlfriend died in that game!

Offline Flame

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #57 on: February 05, 2012, 01:00:03 AM »
Exactly. HIS girlfriend. ZERO's girlfriend.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Zechs

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2012, 04:33:23 AM »
That event shifted Zero's character to what we see of him later in the series. X4 was quite crucial for that characterization.

Offline Mike Arcade

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2012, 05:43:39 AM »
You know when it comes to the X series I've always thought that every 3 games they change the focus not on just X the whole time, but rather the other characters he works with (though this wasn't the original intension, still it ended up like it).

Megaman X1 - X3 was all about X and his constant battles between the Sigma and his forces, with Zero helping X along the way.

Megaman X4 - X6 still had X, but mostly focused on Zero when you played as him, while you learned most of Zero's background in previous games you finally got to play as him, and see just what goes through his mind so to speak. Granted it was suppose to end at X5 but with X6 made it continued the story and (whenever you want to or not) brought Zero back and tackled a new threat (at least up until the end). While it was suppose to lead up to the Zero games with X6 inticreates and Inafking desided to change things around, hence why we have Copy X today (or they didn't want X to be a bad guy after all). Honestly they didn't need to do that and just end the X series with X6 but hey I'm not complaining.

Megaman X7, X8, and probably X9 focuses on the new guy Axl and the New Generation Reploids, with Axl joining the hunters X & Zero and stopping this new threat from destroying the world. X7 (while being the weakest game in the series) sets up the stage, X8 is where it all plays out, and whenever we get a X9 it will be the certain call for Axl's story (Will he die? I don't know but if so I hope he can be brought back or something, I actually like Axl).

Now as for X being a badguy, I'm all for it! Hell Capcom can make a game about just that if they wanted to, most of what you guys posted sounds great and would be a great story with Zero and X in a conflict that they could end up killing each other. Though it's unlikely (Especially as of 2/4/12) but still if they wanted to explore other ways of taking the Series in a different turn with alternate stories of the existing sub-series that would be pretty cool. Kinda like what they did for the Battle Network/Star Force crossover in a way, or Megaman Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X.
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Offline Hypershell

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2012, 08:51:31 PM »
Axl can't die in X9, Mike; he has to survive to appear in Command Mission during 22XX, after Copy Chip technology has all but vanished and Axl's own copy abilities have been noticeably improved.

That event shifted Zero's character to what we see of him later in the series. X4 was quite crucial for that characterization.
I hate to say this, since yeah Iris died in that game, but dragging his girlfriend into it (or hell, even establishing that Zero has any social life to begin with) was pretty much necessary for him to believably do anything other than just be an unresponsive hardass for the entire game.

Zero in X1-3 shoots first and talks later.  He looks badass while doing it due to dramatic timing, but if you're going to play the whole game as him, then yeah, it'll take more than that.  X4 delivered on him, at least.  For X they kinda always had his character set up but never really depicted it in-game before, so they got to do something that looked fresh on the surface but was old news to people who were paying attention during the solemn ending texts of the SNES.

It's kinda funny how people think that Zero "stole the spotlight" in the PS1 games, when truly in the SNES games X didn't do a damn thing in terms of characterization.  MHX definitely helped him out quite a bit in that department, but it's the especially young/naive/inexperience X1 X, not the leader of the Hunters that we respect in the later games.  That particular element of X's character is a bit of a void, with nothing beyond the basic premise of "hates fighting unless it's Sigma" and no further fleshing out, all the way up until X6.

It wasn't just X that got the short end of the stick, though, the supporting cast took some hits as well.  Much as I love Iris, in X4 she is an entirely passive character who exists for no reason other than invoking emotion from Zero (in Xtreme2 she actually, you know, did something), it's just that we're following up the Super NES so expectations in story-telling weren't that high yet, but there was a lot of missed potential there.  And I really can't tell you how much I disliked Alia in X5 (I mean besides the constant gameplay interruptions).  Her dialogue came off as heartless, stuck-up, and married to her work.  X6 gave her both a backstory and a personality, which in turn made her more believable as a "big sister" type character in X7 and X8.

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Offline Mike Arcade

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2012, 06:05:49 AM »
Axl can't die in X9, Mike; he has to survive to appear in Command Mission during 22XX, after Copy Chip technology has all but vanished and Axl's own copy abilities have been noticeably improved.
I hate to say this, since yeah Iris died in that game, but dragging his girlfriend into it (or hell, even establishing that Zero has any social life to begin with) was pretty much necessary for him to believably do anything other than just be an unresponsive hardass for the entire game.

Zero in X1-3 shoots first and talks later.  He looks badass while doing it due to dramatic timing, but if you're going to play the whole game as him, then yeah, it'll take more than that.  X4 delivered on him, at least.  For X they kinda always had his character set up but never really depicted it in-game before, so they got to do something that looked fresh on the surface but was old news to people who were paying attention during the solemn ending texts of the SNES.

It's kinda funny how people think that Zero "stole the spotlight" in the PS1 games, when truly in the SNES games X didn't do a damn thing in terms of characterization.  MHX definitely helped him out quite a bit in that department, but it's the especially young/naive/inexperience X1 X, not the leader of the Hunters that we respect in the later games.  That particular element of X's character is a bit of a void, with nothing beyond the basic premise of "hates fighting unless it's Sigma" and no further fleshing out, all the way up until X6.

It wasn't just X that got the short end of the stick, though, the supporting cast took some hits as well.  Much as I love Iris, in X4 she is an entirely passive character who exists for no reason other than invoking emotion from Zero (in Xtreme2 she actually, you know, did something), it's just that we're following up the Super NES so expectations in story-telling weren't that high yet, but there was a lot of missed potential there.  And I really can't tell you how much I disliked Alia in X5 (I mean besides the constant gameplay interruptions).  Her dialogue came off as heartless, stuck-up, and married to her work.  X6 gave her both a backstory and a personality, which in turn made her more believable as a "big sister" type character in X7 and X8.

You know the ending of X8 DID say that years later the new gen reploids with the copy chip went back into production, it didn't say HOW many years later they did. So for all we know, CM takes place after X8 and before X9 (Whenever the hell that's made). Besides it's never established what the XX in 21XX is, it could have been 2150 or 2160 for all we know in the first X game, therefore setting up for 22XX in CM. Then again that's another topic all together, I'm just saying CM might take place before X9. That and I never finished CM, I know the basic plot and ending of it but still I could just be off this whole time. Also about the SNES X games come to think about it what did we really know about Megaman in his NES days? I mean sure he got double the games X did in his debut console but really other then some subtle differences both characters backgrounds weren't given much depth either, then again those were different times in the gaming industry.
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Offline Hypershell

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2012, 12:46:51 AM »
Command Mission was released prior to X8 and going directly from X8 into it leaves too many unanswered questions with Axl.  If he returns to action with an enhanced copy ability and no consequences otherwise prior to X9, then there's no sense in killing him off, and the sinister foreboding of X8's ending is all for nothing (at least in the case of him personally).  While it's true that we don't know the exact timeframe between games, Axl's dialogue in XCM implies that he's been separated from X and Zero for a while.

And it's not that copy chips (besides Axl's, I mean) don't appear in XCM, they do.  It's that they're referenced as a long lost piece of technology, basically a "holy grail" to thieves and bounty hunters.  Marino failed to track down any copy-capable Reploids (which are common as dirt in X8) before she met Axl.

Also, this is just speculation on my part, but I believe that XCM was purposefully distanced from the main X series in both time and setting so as to excuse the fact that usual non-playable support characters do not appear.  It's not really meant to flow in between main series games in the way that, say, the Xtremes are.

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Offline Mike Arcade

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2012, 12:59:59 PM »
Command Mission was released prior to X8 and going directly from X8 into it leaves too many unanswered questions with Axl.  If he returns to action with an enhanced copy ability and no consequences otherwise prior to X9, then there's no sense in killing him off, and the sinister foreboding of X8's ending is all for nothing (at least in the case of him personally).  While it's true that we don't know the exact timeframe between games, Axl's dialogue in XCM implies that he's been separated from X and Zero for a while.

And it's not that copy chips (besides Axl's, I mean) don't appear in XCM, they do.  It's that they're referenced as a long lost piece of technology, basically a "holy grail" to thieves and bounty hunters.  Marino failed to track down any copy-capable Reploids (which are common as dirt in X8) before she met Axl.

Also, this is just speculation on my part, but I believe that XCM was purposefully distanced from the main X series in both time and setting so as to excuse the fact that usual non-playable support characters do not appear.  It's not really meant to flow in between main series games in the way that, say, the Xtremes are.

I know CM came out before X8, but both games specificaly state which years they are in (well as specific as Megaman games can get with years), It's still 21XX for X8 and 22XX for CM. Now that does make a lot of sence, that CM is the future of the X games in terms of timeline, but until X9 does come out we can't be exactly sure if CM takes place far into the future for the X series or not. I mean as X8 stated at the end they stopped making the copy chips after X8, only for them to make more of them years later. YEARS later, as in it could have been a long time for them to make that choice to reproduce them, so for all we know X9 could take place after CM. It MIGHT I'm not saying that it does, and while I like it that CM can eventually set itself in the timeline like the Xtreme did (if my theory is moot, which it probably is), that would mean that Axl's future after X8 is set in stone, meaning we already know that he's okay and not a threat to anyone. It makes Axl's ending in X8 underwelming if that's the case (which it probably is). Not that I don't want him to survive (or die and pull a Sigma and Zero), I like the character, he brings Bass' gameplay from MM&B and MM10 into the X series. I do wonder what happens to him after the X series though, I mean during the Elf Wars timeline that is, then again I can say that about everyone else but X and Zero. He's probably dead by then.
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Offline Ruri

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2012, 01:06:30 PM »
What if Copy X was the good guy?

Offline Blackhook

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2012, 08:47:20 PM »
Now THAT would be great to see

Offline Align

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2012, 10:01:59 PM »
He thought he was, already...

Offline Zechs

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2012, 04:56:59 AM »
For Copy X, good intentions paved the road to hell.